Slashdot Mirror
RIAA Wants Agreements to Stay Secret
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The RIAA is opposing Ms. Lindor's request for discovery into the agreements among the record company competitors by which they have agreed to settle and prosecute their cases together, by which she seeks to support her Fourth Affirmative Defense (pdf) alleging that 'The plaintiffs, who are competitors, are a cartel acting collusively in violation of the antitrust laws and of public policy, by tying their copyrights to each other, collusively litigating and settling all cases together, and by entering into an unlawful agreement among themselves to prosecute and to dispose of all cases in accordance with a uniform agreement, and through common lawyers, thus overreaching the bounds and scope of whatever copyrights they might have. ...As such, they are guilty of misuse of their copyrights.'"
Go Ms. Lindor!
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
For someone to get the balls to stand up to the RIAA?
On our side, we want the lawsuits to be secret. No one will ever know. How about that.
Kinda makes the effort worthless, doesn't it.
Doing PR by lawsuit. It'll remain in history, and our grandchildren will be reading about what the RIAA used to do in our days in attempt to keep Earth from spinning.
loose their copyrights if they are found in abuse of them?
Or maybe I should have said "Shoots", not "Sues".
Only in the US do you hire a lawyer for tying your shoelaces.
The RIAA's strength is spin control. The whole industry is one massive PR machine. In fact, it's the only thing it knows how to do anymore. It's no surprise they're taking the same approach to their legal strategy. Promote pro-RIAA messages and actions as much as possible, suppress anything that's negative. Rinse, repeat.
Something off topic, but worth mentioning: I appreciate the various members of the legal profession who take the time to breakdown and explain legal cases such as this, people such as Ray Beckermann, PJ from Groklaw, et al... Not only do I have a better understanding of what goes on in the legal world, but I have a little bit better respect for the people and procedures involved. Thanks..!
Shameless plug for my photos on Flickr
You mean that getting together for recreational abuse of the legal system is illegal now? But Ma, Everyone else is ganging up and extorting their customers!
Stupid left wingers. They spoil everything.
The RIAA has to hope they can get the judge to ignore the Amurao case. Good luck.
The RIAA says discovery is over. The problem here is that counterclaims can arise as a result of discovery. In that case, it would be unfair to limit discovery to that of the original case. As an example, consider the SCO v. the rest of the world case. SCO was given extremely generous discovery in spite of the fact that they had produced zero evidence. It seems, on its face, that the record companies seem to be acting as a cartel. My wag is that the judge will decide that there is enough smoke to justify the conclusion that there may be fire.
It's better than Ancient Rome, where they had slaves strap your sandals.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Why did it take this long?
For someone to get the balls to stand up to the RIAA?
Do YOU have balls?
Why haven't YOU stood up to the RIAA? (and no, filesharing does not count as "standing up" in this context).
Whatever answer you give probably applies to everyone else who hasn't stood up to them.
No, here in the U.S. you hire a lawyer because the person that you did hire to tie your shoelaces did it improperly, and then stole your shoes.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Seriously, we could have any legally binding contract go into a public database on the internet, which could be viewed by anyone.
This is my sig.
SIXTH AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE
12. Plaintiffs are guilty of unclean hands.
Apparently the RIAA downloads a lot of porn.
No, in the U.S., you're too fat to reach or even see your feet, you wouldn't notice the shoes.
I'm cautiously smirking and waiting for that 16 Ton Weight (TM/Copyright, Monty Python) to drop on their
collective heads- I just won't state outright that they are going to lose the things. And, lose 'em they
will do if this gets going where it looks like it's going. They sued someone that was a DOJ case manager-
someone that understands precisely where she's going with this and is making no bones about it either.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
In the States you can't really sue yourself.
The Raven
how appropriate that this is happening while this song is hot,, at least on the Sirius station I listen to.
Those of us who are working stiffs with a wife and kids are too old and too occupied to give a shit about whatever Kos or Moveon or Rush says. We've been through all of the self indulgent political wars already and see it for what it is.
See, here's the thing. You think the average man should be outraged because of something you read from your political propaganda site. You read all this stuff, spoon fed to you designed so that you will at least give them your vote but more likely, just more money, and really, its no different from watching advertisements. Rush, Kos, Right, Left, all these guys are out there stoking whatever political fire they can invent so they can cash in on your civic mindedness. Protesting Carter, supporting Gary Hart, early horror and then staunch support for Reagan, the Culture Wars of the early 1990s, Clinton vs Gingrich, really, been there, done that, and every step along the way, there's been someone getting rich in the name of some cause, be it a liberal author or artist, or, a right wing radio host.
You just have to let it go and look at your life and assess how things are based on people around. I guarantee that 95% of your problems are yours, and not the governments, fault. Right now, taxes are pretty low, the economy is ok, and it really has been for the last 30 years, save for a few hiccups. Bottom line is that Reaganomics worked and socialism is largely discredited, and that's that. If you choose a life where you say you don't value money, don't come crying to your political masters 20 years down the road for not having any. IT's pretty cut and dry. You need to manage your life so that it is profitable, so that you can support the ones you love, including yourself. Even an issue like global warming really has no practical impact on most people. Even if the worst comes true, and sea levels rise 100 feet, most people will just move further inland and life will go on. Support politicians that support your causes, yes, but don't let it become your life! Instead of spending so much time worrying about what Dick Cheney or Hillary Clinton are doing, worry about your own life. Then, if you do run into a government law that genuinely has an immediate impact on you. If they raise taxes, or do something stupid and get the price of fuel up to $7 / gallon, then yes, riot. If interest rates hit 15-20%, then, yes, riot. If unemployment hits 20-40%, then yes, riot. But, the bottom line, is none of those things have happened. In the grand scheme of things, we're extremely fortunate to have what we have and the rest of the world only wishes they could have our petty troubles.
Enjoy your life, because you are lucky to be American.
This is my sig.
That was very loaded the way he stated that, but you have to consider that he does have a good point....
Doddman, posting AC to protect teh karma
Dick Cheney will have somewhere to work when he's out of office.
Other possible counter measure would be to create a global consumer protection organization, which would seek for non-profit, charity status, and would qualify for tax-deductible donation and would take the legal defense of all RIAA accused members.
This way tax-deferred, pool of money would finance all he legal costs (just as RIAA uses tax-differed money from member companies, who deduct their RIAA membership fees as operating cost).
This consumer protection organization would start heavy lobbying for legislative changes to end and prevent future unfair copyright laws and treaties around the globe.
It would create a matching partner for RIAA and their sponsoring corporation - both in funding, legal and political clout.
Maybe Slashdot or some OpenSource organization could initiate the creation of such multinational, truly global organization where membership would be open for billions of consumers around the world.
One dollar yearly membership fee could create funding in the billion dollar range, not to mention the huge political influence an organization with a billion plus members could have.
Just an other Random.Idea.
Ummm, what? Do you actually understand how slashdot works?!
'Yeah, get those slashdot journalists working harder, what the fuck do they think they're doing? Slacked-assed bastards.'
See what I'm driving at?!
yes, lets censor people's free expression by showing who you disagree with and marking it as a troll or flamebait. I wouldn't have probably noticed this except I mark all troll and flamebait as +3. Over half of the time these are just people disagreeing with the poster and not following the group mentality. Karma also means +0 to me since obviously it only takes one easily angered mod to mark take your karma down for a long while. And this is proof that this is exactly what the system is creating - fear to say what you really think.
And unfortunately this reminds me a LOT of aljazeera.com, the phony baloney "al-jazeera magazine" where comments are heavily filtered before even allowing them to be posted, and people vote you as +5 (good) or -5 (ban) based on whether you hate america and believe in radical islamic law, censorship, and oppression or not.
I'm not fat! I'm pleasantly plump.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
What happened to the mafiaa tag that used to be put on all these stories?
I have to assume people are still tagging. Censorship or what?
If you choose a life where you say you don't value money, don't come crying to your political masters 20 years down the road for not having any.
If you choose a life where you don't value your rights, don't come crying to me when 20 years down the road you don't have any.
When I look at my life I look beyond the end of my street, and I don't like what I see. An issue like global warming won't have a practical impact on you, but you grand children are going to be killed by it. The won't be able to "just move inland" because everyone else from all the most populous places on earth will all be doing the same. Once everyone gets there, the fresh water supplies will fail because the overcrowding on top of the lack of infrastructure. So now you have hundreds of millions of displaced people worldwide, a potable water shortage, and guess what pops up everytime you have widespread conditions like that? Disease. So no you personally might not be effected, but your grandchildren and great grand children will die most misreable deaths because you refuse to take resposibility for anything past the end of your driveway. Don't confuse money with respect, freedom, or responsibility. Some actions have effects beyond making or losing a dollar, maybe when you grow up you'll see that.
We are all just people.
How does the government really control all aspects of my life? Does the government stop me from any of the following:
a) starting a business
It depends on what business you want to start. Depending on what the business is government can make it harder to start. For instance my sister started trading, buying and selling on eBay. However in North Dakota the legislature has a law that require auctioneers to spend a lot of money to be licensed as an auctioneer. For those who are poor yet have the skills to sell on eBay this could prevent them from doing so, as least doing it legally.
b) selling a product
Same as above.
d) expressing myself however I want
I guess you didn't try to attend any of Bush's campaign stops in 2006 wearing a tshirt that wasn't approved. Even Bush supporters were turned out when they appeared with tickets to events where Bush was. And it's not just Bush, both the Democratic and Republican Parties were able to get law enforcement where they had their conventions to setup "free speach zones" away from the conventions.
e) buying anything I want
Government prevent you from buying many thing legally. There's this fake "Drug War" going on which deprives people of liberty.
f) eating however much I want, when I want, where I want
If you live in New York, or a number of other cities, yes. NYC has banned trans fats.
The answer is really no.
As listed above, the answer is YES! Just because it's not as bad in the US as it is in most other countries it doesn't mean there isn't any restrictions on liberty in the US as well.
Do I like the USA PATRIOT ACT? No, I don't. However, I've not seen the Democrats do anything to even try to repeal it.
Of course, Democrats supported the PATROIT Act as much as the Republicans did. Not only that but as President Clinton tried to get many of the same powers. Only two congressmen voted against the Act, one from Wisconson though I don't recall his name, and Rep Ron Paul (R) of Texas. And the thing is is none of them read the whole thing!
FalconShould there be a Law?
Once upon a time, spin control in the music industry meant 33 1/3 or 45 rpm.
For the best quality that's what spin control should be, that and 78 rpm. I don't listen to music much anymore however I'd like to get a turntable, if I do then I'll listen to music more, and buying vinyl records. As amazing as it sounds, vinyl records are still being released. A five minute walk takes me to one store that sells new vinyl, and another store is 15 minutes walk. Next would be to find a reel-to-reel tape deck, I'll then do what I did years ago. As soon as I played a new record I'd record it on my reel-to-reel then put the record away for safekeeping and listen to the tape.
FalconShould there be a Law?
"Stallman says add to this code and you are one of us. Gates says use this code and you belong to us."
But when it goes to court, then they should be viewable both by the judiciary and those researching the case. Chances are your contract with the care facility is going to be fine, unless somebody is sued for violation of said contract or some issue related to it.
If you want to take advantage of either, and especially if you want to take advantage of both, then yes the contracts should be public.
How else are we to know it isn't fraud?
Have your secret contract if you like... but don't come crying to the courthouse when the other party doesn't follow the contract.
Are you ashamed of your child?
I feel real pity for your child.
As for YOU; you can fuck the hell right off the planet. Cock-biter...
I feel dirty even knowing you exist...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Since when did ANY technical details make into a contract?
As a matter of fact, they do... In a patent application! (And those are all supposed to be in a searchable public database.)
The rest of contract law is entirely concerned with the behavior of people.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I can see the beginning of the end for the RIAA . . . and it's awesome!
Why shouldn't companies be allowed to band together legal resources to prosecute people who violate their rights? Leave it to /. to sacrifice freedom when someone does something they don't like.
Pun unintended, but at least noticed before posting.
I seem to recall that the specific copyright violations have resulted in the specific rights holders (ie. individual record companies) being listed as plaintiff on the cases involving violation of their copyrights, with those violations and rights being specifically listed in the filings. As such, the RIAA, and by extension its other members, are not attempting to sue collectively for the rights violations. This claim contradicts that, which is easily found in the collection of suits and pre-suit collection attempts.
This claim will fall apart based on this evidence. The rest of it will be moot, as it is not illegal to actively pursue settlement collectively as long as specific individual instances of damage are not claimed when they don't occur. This is the basis of class action suits. Suits brought by trade unions on behalf of more than one of its members for a specific complaint similar to each v. a specific company would perhaps be a more apt example.
As to why the RIAA would then attempt to block it: delaying tactic. They are trying to cause this case, as they have with many others, to be as costly as possible for the defendant to pursue. Their collective purse, paying the RIAA's attorneys, is much larger than any defendant's, and they're simply trying to price the case out of existence.
As much as I'd like to see the RIAA and its members hung using their own intestines if not vas deferens, I think there's a gaping hole in the tactic being attempted here. If the agreements the RIAA seeks to block discovery of contradicts this in some way, great. But the individual suits as filed, used as their evidence in defense, indicate the opposite and makes it unlikely those agreements will get examined due to this action. It could even backfire. A request for discovery without the claim that they're tying their rights to each other, perhaps brought separately by one of the RICO countersuit v. RIAA plaintiffs, might have been a better idea. Now the RIAA is warned, can delay, and can alter any agreements that might have supported it by superseding them with newer ones that don't have this problem. The old ones would still exist, but would be evidence of this claim in the past, not of claims that this is how things are being done in the case that resulted in the claims.
No, I'm not a lawyer. But I did work on behalf of some in collecting evidence and acting as witness in some intellectual property cases.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
I think that we've all seen this before...
People with shady dealings will always get antsy, defensive, and protective whenever someone who is smart and clever enough to ignore their squeaky clean image comes along and decides to lift up the rug to see what has been swept under there.
The RIAA is acting just like the teenager who has just been pulled over for speeding: Antsy, clumsy, nervous, and definitely not wanting to get in trouble.
The RIAA has just pretty much up and told everybody what we all suspected was going on: Collusion and possible racketeering deals, and most certainly deals that will absolutely destroy any remnants of positive P.R. (if there was any) that they had left. The record labels, having been caught with their pants down, will have their reputations completely destroyed.
If your actions are already under scrutiny, the last thing that you want to do is openly try to hide and cover up your dealings.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
this is exactly what I was talking about. one of the few things I dislike about slashdot is the way that disagreeing with what is mainstream gets you modded down, even if you make an insightful point. again, Doddman
Yeah? There's no excuse for the RIAA's bullshit or their tactics, either, but I don't see them looking to stop any time soon.
just like homeland security, mi5 or any other secret service. guys, this really got out of hand. if you people at u.s. lighten up and turn this woman's lawsuit into a class action lawsuit, you can stem the tide in this charade.
Read radical news here
"The RIAA is opposing Ms. Lindor's request for discovery into the agreements among the record company competitors by which they have agreed to settle and prosecute their cases together, by which she seeks to support her Fourth Affirmative Defense (pdf) alleging that 'The plaintiffs, who are competitors, are a cartel acting collusively in violation of the antitrust laws and of public policy, by tying their copyrights to each other, collusively litigating and settling all cases together, and by entering into an unlawful agreement among themselves to prosecute and to dispose of all cases in accordance with a uniform agreement, and through common lawyers, thus overreaching the bounds and scope of whatever copyrights they might have. ...As such, they are guilty of misuse of their copyrights.'"
Gasp...gasp...gasp
You couldn't break it up into smaller sentences, eh?
Fata viam invenient.
Recent Post I made on the "War on Drugs"
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
This is a battle we should all be chipping into. Does anyone know of a website somewhere or other such ways we can use to donate cash to this fight? The RIAA has nearly unlimited funds (so it would seem). So, if we're ever to stop this enemy of the people, we're going to have to fight back in kind. In a lawsuit like this, we all need to help it through before it becomes just another RIAA victory due to lack of funds on the victim's (in every case, the RIAA is never the victim) side. If no such website exists, who could we trust to set it up and make sure 98% of the funds are distributed back to the attornies fighting this cause?
This the biggest baloney I have ever read. It's the author of that post that hasn't grown up yet. Either that or it's pure paid political propaganda, with a few phony references thrown in to throw us off the trail. I'm a working stiff with a wife and grown kids and too old and occupied to care about such inane nonsense as he is spouting, which is in essence "become the living dead if you and your family have food to eat and a roof over your head, and don't worry about anyone anywhere else, or about future generations. And oh yes, Reagan's economic ideas -- which have brought the federal government to its knees -- worked great."
I'm marking him a "foe" so I don't have to bother reading such phony propaganda in the future.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
wish Beckerman would explain his motions and the counter motions, or that /. would get a lawyer to explain this crap in their summaries, because, to me, it looks like the RIAA counter motion would win, but IANAL.
Might as well mod me the same. I agree with the parent poster 100%.
Some people are only alive today because it is illegal to kill someone simply for being stupid.
The "one from Wisconsin" whose name you don't recall was Russ Feingold, who is a senator, not a congressman.
Thanks I didn't recall who it was who voted agains the PATROIT Act, however you are wrong about him not being a congressman. Congress is made of both the Senate and the House of representatives and both senators and representatives are members of congress.
Paul was not even the only Republican. 63 Democratic congressmen joined the 3 Republicans (the others were Ney-OH and Otter-ID) in voting against the Patriot Act.
Bad memory. Thanks for correcting me.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Seriously.... how is it that the RIAA is coming to operate according to the standards set forth by organized crime bosses? Or better yet, HOW THE HELL ARE THEY GETTING AWAY WITH THIS?
Yes, I'm shouting. That's how outrageous this situation has become. Are they going to keep going to see just how much they can get away with? I could make some sort of joke about the RIAA ordering hitmen to whack music-loving college students, but I fear that we're inching closer and closer to that every day...
(I'm not implying that the RIAA is going to begin to murder people in their sleep, but, rather, that they can do anything they wish, and receive little more than a slap on the wrist for it....just like the Bush administration, which coincidentally is getting away with murder)
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Imagine there's no copyright
It's easy if you try
No RIAA below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no Sony
It isn't hard to do
No music to steal or pay for
It's all free to you
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine free forever
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or DRM
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
Like the writings of Jefferson and Franklin...
Dude, the stuff you just wrote is sadly typical of the blatherings of modern day americans who, it seems, have been completely misinformed as to the ideals held by those founders of this great nation.
NOT sticking our noses into forgeign domestic affairs is exactly the ideal held when the Constitution was penned. It's the only policy consistent with our domestic ideals of the time. That we have forgotten this on both fronts is exactly why we've not won a land war in nearly a century and everyone is pissed off at us.
To borrow from some philosopher whose name I can't remember:
First, they rigged the election, but I didn't speak up, because I didn't vote.
Then, they invaded another sovereign nation (and then another), but I didn't speak up, because I wasn't in the armed forces.
Then, they kidnapped and imprisoned people indefinitely without any legal recourse, but I didn't speak up, because I didn't know any of them.
Then, one morning, I woke up, and the constitution and my freedom was gone, but by then, there was no one to speak up for me.
You can not open bar
"open a bar".
the lake of which
"lack".
you want to here your protest
"hear".
You can not each regulated substances
"eat".
How did you get from "eat" to "each"? Are you using voice-recognition input?
Jefferson bought a ton of adjoining land from a country that had already claimed it. How the hell do you make the leap from that to us invading iraq, or even abducting banana republic leaders from small central american nations?
Jefferson did not have a history of repeatedly and offensively circumventing the constitution in the name of his rich buddies. In just the last 6 years how many times has our leadership acted in a way that, a century ago, would likely have had them charged with tyranny and facing a firing squad?
Could very well implies that it might not happen- it's just that it's VERY much open to doing that as
it's the prescribed penalty for misuse of Copyrights.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas