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Japan To Adopt Open Software Standards

em8chel writes "Japan has adopted a policy under which government ministries and agencies will solicit bids from software vendors whose products support internationally recognized open standards. Japan thus becomes the first country in Asia to embrace open software standards (PDF), the OpenDocument Format Alliance says in a press release. ODF managing director Marino Marcich is quoted: 'By giving preference to open software formats such as ODF, it is saying that information should be competitively priced, innovative, and easily available to the widest range of people, now and in the future. We hail Japan for its diligence and vision.' The new guidelines are available (in Japanese) from Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry."

75 comments

  1. Interoperability say it all by UncleWilly · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The ODF alliance press release aside, interoperability is the last mile in lots of "IT Plans Gone Bad", as plot-point-two. Japan seems to make a lot of smart decisions. Guess I'm just a little jealous.

  2. of all countries... japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    I mean, isn't Japan notoriously known for proprietary computer systems?

    -jl

    1. Re:of all countries... japan? by wootest · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is why open standards would be of particular importance. I mean, right?

    2. Re:of all countries... japan? by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Well if you judge a society by its commercials, then I'm shocked they'd choose any non-Microsoft product that wasn't Windows.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    3. Re:of all countries... japan? by clesters · · Score: 2, Informative

      Eh, never heard that before. When I was living there they seemed to have twice as much Open Source stuff running then anywhere else.

      I could go into almost any computer store and buy a pre-built computer running FreeBSD.

    4. Re:of all countries... japan? by Hymer · · Score: 1

      if you're talking about the PC98 specification... then no... they just came to a solution for their proprietary language and character set wich was not supported on the "standarized" PC platform by any US vendors.

    5. Re:of all countries... japan? by tuba_dude · · Score: 1
      --
      "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
  3. For how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given the behavior of Microsoft anywhere else that a move to ODF has been tried, I'm sure that somewhere near Redmond a 747 is being loaded with free software coupons, free educational locking computers, free bribes and ooxml documentation as we speak.

    1. Re:For how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      How is that any worse than offering free software in exchange for signing the Japanese government up to lifelong legal servitude to messers Stallman and Moglen?

      Remember, when you sign a communist software license, Stallan doesn't change. Stallman owns you.

    2. Re:For how long? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Funny

      Small correction. The ooxml documentation takes a 747 all by itself. The freebies are ina seperate 747.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    3. Re:For how long? by xouumalperxe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Alright, it's obviously flame bait, but I'll bite nonetheless. We're talking about open standards and specifications that anybody can implement software against. We're not talking about open source software, and decidedly not about Stallman or GPLv3. Irrespectively of your opinion on Stallman's attitudes towards software licensing, you have to agree that, for public records, there's no reason NOT to use a document format that's an ISO standard, requires no royalties to implement, and is well documented. Hell, I don't give a damn if they write their documents in MS Office and save it in ODF through a filter. As long as it's ODF (or any other similar standard, but ODF is what we have right now), I know I can read it and communicate in the same standard without necessarily having to own Microsoft Office. And that's what this is all about.

    4. Re:For how long? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      OOXML is not a standard.

      Standards do not include statements like "Render the text like an arcane program you do not have the source code to does." Many OOXML standards are impossible to create.

      The fact that it was certified as ISO says more about corruption of the process than quality of the standard.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    5. Re:For how long? by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

      Maybe you already understood this, but his joke was still relevant given that there are many ways Microsoft extends it's grip on the market. Patents, software, licenses, and formats are all methods of control. Microsoft has lots of reasons to not want others to adopt formats other than ones it controls, obviously. It just adds one more hurdle for competition to overcome. So anything and everything Microsoft can do to stop this, they will do, to add to all the lobbying they've already done everywhere to prevent anyone from adopting anything not controlled by them. Once their monopoly is destroyed though, they will be forced to play nice, because only then will intelligent IT directors be able to see clear enough to make better choices. I know those words intelligent and IT director don't go together very often though so maybe that's wishful thinking.

      Perhaps you already understood all that though, apologize if that was redundant, or I completely missed your point. :) Yeah this topic was about standards, not software or licenses, but it's just one more bullet Balmer has to deal with, and throwing those other things at them will in turn help fight standards. Especially if Office 2007 doesn't come with a way to save files as ODFs. Not that I really care. It's all tied in together, is all I'm saying. =P

      --
      Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
    6. Re:For how long? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Then you won't mind pointing me to the specifications for this "open standard", as well as a reference implementation that fully complies with this spec, and a list of caveats which detail where currently implementations fail to implement all of the specs.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  4. Define "open" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what is the standard for 'international open standards'? Would such a standard permit OOXML, an undocumented proprietary format that Microsoft named "Open Office XML" in a deliberate (and typically malicious) attempt to muddy the waters for decision makers?

    1. Re:Define "open" by throup · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...an undocumented proprietary format that Microsoft named "Open Office XML"... It's "Office Open XML".
    2. Re:Define "open" by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You would think that, after all this time, the PHBs usually put in charge of software purchasing would have realized that nothing from Microsoft is open. Good, bad ... that's the way it is.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Define "open" by throup · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am not a Microsoft fan and I believe that we have a perfectly good standard office format (ODF) and don't need another.

      But... when there are so many good reasons to oppose OOXML (eg it isn't open when part of the spec says "do it like Word 97" [I paraphrase], ignores other existing standards such as SVG and invents whole new languages) there is no reason to make up new criticisms. Apart from the specification not being open, I can understand that this XML-based format, originally designed for use in Microsoft Office, can be called Office Open XML.

      Whilst on the subject of confusing names, remember that Open Office is actually a trademark owned by someone else entirely. The office suite used by most free software users is called OpenOffice.org.

  5. It always hits Japan first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Stuff that appears in Japan shows up in the U.S. two years later. Yay!

    1. Re:It always hits Japan first by kaizokuace · · Score: 1

      yea but by the time something comes from japan to here the next thing they got makes us even more jealous here! Face it, Japan is in the future (by a whole day but its a long day too)

      --
      Balderdash!
  6. Regulated vs 'Open Market' capitalism by tsa · · Score: 1

    This is a fine example of how regulated capitalism can be better for the consumer than Open Market capitalism. I hope the EU is next. And I hope they hurry :-)

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Regulated vs 'Open Market' capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Hang on, I thought we *liked* "Open".

      Crap. I'm confused.

    2. Re:Regulated vs 'Open Market' capitalism by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      When it comes to software, don't even talk about "Open Market Capitalism". Once taxpayer dollars are being spent to buy monopoly products, you don't have a free market anymore.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  7. How exactly is that connected to the gnu project? by saibot834 · · Score: 1

    How exactly is this story connected to the gnu project? I could only find their statement against proprietary standards (such as M$ Word). They are not the inventors of odf, though they of course support odf. But what makes them so special that they deserve to be tagged in this story, instead of sun for example?

  8. I blogged about this three months ago by KNicolson · · Score: 1

    I reported on a survey showing that the penetration of Linux in the public sector was virtually nil, and in addition two months ago office suites meant MS Office in both the private and public sectors.

    1. Re:I blogged about this three months ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Choice of software is largely irrelevant to this. This decision is on Open Standards for file formats, not Open Source. There are perfectly fine examples of closed source and proprietary software using Open Standard file formats.
       
      They'll probably keep using MS Office on MS Windows, they'll just save their documents as OpenDocument instead of a Microsoft format.

    2. Re:I blogged about this three months ago by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Tho one of the other things mentioned in the document says:
      - Selection of solutions that provide greatest value for least cost

      If the formats are open, it's only a matter of time before microsoft is given the boot and replaced with something cheaper.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  9. Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by HardWoodWorker · · Score: 1

    Japan thus becomes the first country in Asia to embrace open software standards (PDF), To me that reads, let's announce our (IMHO) intelligent move towards open formats by announcing it in a closed document format from a company famous for pushing proprietary formats.
    1. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      troff doc.tr | ps2pdf works fine for me

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    2. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    3. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by thethibs · · Score: 3, Funny

      There are 11 types of people in the world, those who know binaries and those who don't.

      Apparently, you're one of those who don't.

      --
      I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
    4. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Are you sure ? I could have sworn I did my research before changing my signature. You'd best apologise now before it gets messy.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    5. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by donutello · · Score: 1

      It's binary, not "binaries" and 11 in binary is 3 decimal. You only list 2 types of people. You're looking for 10, not 11.

      --
      Mmmm.. Donuts
    6. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Is it now? You seem sure for someone who is wrong.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    7. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by Hucko · · Score: 1

      Sir, I would suggest you research; humour: computers, binaries, and 'play on words'. Irony wouldn't go astray, but you imply you understand it in your subject.

      --
      Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
    8. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are 11 types of people in the world: those who understand tally marks, and those who don't.

    9. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you feeding the troll? It wasn't even a good troll... you got suckered.

    10. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      You are conflating the original joke: (http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/frustrations/5aa 9/)
      There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

      With the mathematician joke:
      There are three kinds of mathematicians: those who can count and those who can't.

      Also:
      There are two groups of people in the world;
      those who believe that the world can be
      divided into two groups of people,
      and those who don't.

      There are two groups of people in the world:
      Those who can be categorized into one of two
      groups of people, and those who can't.

      Top ten reasons why e is inferior to pi

      10) e is less challenging to spell than pi.
      9) e ~=2.718281828459045, which can be easily memorized to its billionth place, whereas pi needs "skills" to be memorized.
      8) The character for e is so cheap that it can be found on a keyboard. But is special (it's under "special symbols" in word processor programs.)
      7) Pi is the bigger piece of pie.
      6) e has an easy limit definition and infinite series. The limit definition of pi and the infinite series are much harder.
      5) e you understand what it is even though you start learning it late when you're in pre-calculus. But pi, even after five or six years it's still hard to know what it really is.
      4) People mistakenly confuse Euler's Number (e) with Euler's Constant (gamma). There is no confusion with the one and only pi.
      3) e is named after a person, but pi stands for itself.
      2) Pi is much shorter and easier to say than "Euler's Number".
      1) To read pi, you don't have to know that Euler's name is really pronounced Oiler.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    11. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Why do you think I am interested?

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    12. Re:Does anyone else find this sentence ironic? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      LoL

      Do you think I care if you are interested?

      I have no clue who you are. I only remember two userids on this site besides mine.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  10. Open Source and Growing Up Mormon by WED+Fan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Everytime I see a /. article "X Chooses Open Source", "Country Y Goes Linux", "Province B Going MS Free", I'm reminded of some of my Mormon friends.

    Everytime some celebrity converted, they crowed about how their church was gaining ground and would encompass the world.

    Everytime some new temple complex was found in Central or South America, they'd claim it was evidence of Nephite civilization.

    Everytime there was a "gentile" event that paid homage to the Mormons, they go into theological orgasms.

    The facts are: For every 4 converts, 3 stop going to church within a year. There still is no proof of Nephites. Yes, Mitt Romney is Mormon, but so is Harry Reid, and both just look like slimy used car salesmen.

    --
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
    1. Re:Open Source and Growing Up Mormon by Pecisk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And this is relevant to this article because...?

      Or you just wanted to start another flame war about how open source/open standards guys are zealots, etc. etc.

      Guess what - even if you are neither, one of most advanced countries in the world using really open standards IS news, even for you.

      Yes, maybe posting about every time when such things happens in local level - county, city, region - is a little bit silly (but even then I would like to know details), but this is different case.

      p.s. Munich still goes "to the church", by the way (3thd year, and still going. Yes, they have mixed success, but they don't look back). So does lot of other organizations, cities, regions and countries.

      --
      user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
    2. Re:Open Source and Growing Up Mormon by Vexorian · · Score: 1

      "Everytime" I read a sentence in your post I wanted to puke out of the nonsense. I mean, seriously it is so terrible , must have been modded off topic but if there was a -1 lame tag....

      --

      Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
    3. Re:Open Source and Growing Up Mormon by jadavis · · Score: 1

      Guess what - even if you are neither, one of most advanced countries in the world using really open standards IS news, even for you.

      I think the excitement of a religious victory drives this story more than the mundane details about what open standards will really mean in this instance.

      The simple test to determine whether something is based on ideology or reason is whether different facts could change your opinion.

      Hypothetically, if the open standards were a mess, and the implementations were much worse than the current closed systems, and productivity went down as a result of using these open standards, reason might say that now is not the time, and that we should refine the standards before recruiting new users.

      If that reasoning did not sway someone, then productivity is not the goal, the goal is the ideology of open standards.

      I don't think that's a bad ideology, in fact I share the ideology of open standards. But I recognize that there is some ideology there.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    4. Re:Open Source and Growing Up Mormon by WED+Fan · · Score: 1

      Incredible that a post can engender such feelings. Are you sure you are stable? Are you under a physician's care?

      Really now, if my post caused you that much grief, perhaps you feel that it was too much of a threat to your beliefs and that perhaps you are not that sure of validity of your beliefs?

      The point of the post is to draw that exact point.

      The Mormon kids I grew up with sought validation by all those points. Only those who are comfortable in their faith and beliefs stop seeking validation.

      The /. community, and much of the OSS community are the same. Count how many "Yay, MS is failing" and "Yay, X government is adopting..." articles there have been on /. lately. It sends fanboys into ecstacy. But, point it out and they scream "heretic" and talk about emotional damage.

      --
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
    5. Re:Open Source and Growing Up Mormon by Kristoph · · Score: 1

      Yes, Mitt Romney is Mormon, but so is Harry Reid, and both just look like slimy used car salesmen.

      Irrespective of what they look like to you, Mitt Romney is tangible contender for the presidency of the United States and Harry Reid is the majority leader in the Senate which suggests that Mormons have considerable political power.

      If OSS had similar presence in the IT industry, even if it continued to look 'questionable' to some people, that would be a cause for celebration, no?

      ]{

    6. Re:Open Source and Growing Up Mormon by bit01 · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's a bad ideology, in fact I share the ideology of open standards. But I recognize that there is some ideology there

      By that reasoning making a commercial software choice is also ideology.

      All decisions can be looked at as ideology and reasoning attempting to label open source usage only as ideology, simply because characteristics of software not traditionally associated with closed source software are considered important, shows a closed source ideologue. Most characterization of open source as ideology driven is usually just an ironic reflection of the writer's own ideology.

      Personally, I regard openness in government, even if it's not very quantifiable and could cause a short term, or even long term, hit in performance and productivity (as long as it's not too great), as important. It's all a question of different people assigning different priorities to different software characteristics and looking for different outcomes.

      ---

      Monopolies = Industrial feudalism

  11. P.D.F. by Mahler · · Score: 0, Redundant

    [quote]... open software standards (PDF)[/quote]

    Last time I checked, PDF was not an acronym for "Open Software Standards"

    1. Re:P.D.F. by phrostie · · Score: 1

      ya beat me to it.

  12. could someone explain/translate appendix 1 and 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of siryou.pdf. Appendix 1 seems to be a table of standards, it doesn't mention ODF. Appendix 2 lists a bunch of software, including Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer. The last line of that table is about a system running a 1.6Ghz pentium which runs OpenOffice.org reasonably quickly I think. ODF is mentioned in passing on page 6 where there is some encouraging language about royalty free and RAND standards (not sure that is sufficient though, I seem to remember something about RAND preventing Open implementations.) I want to slap this on the desks of some Japanese executives tomorrow, but I want to be confident that it says what I think it says. Can someone reassure me?

  13. PDF is not a closed document format by CrankinOut · · Score: 3, Informative
    PDF is a published, documented format. It is copyrighted, but usable royalty-free in any software. From the specification book
    PDF Reference
    third edition
    Adobe Portable Document Format
    Version 1.4

    "Adobe gives anyone copyright permission, subject to the conditions stated below, to:

    • Prepare files whose content conforms to the Portable Document Format
    • Write drivers and applications that produce output represented in the Portable Document Format
    • Write software that accepts input in the form of the Portable Document Format and displays, prints, or otherwise interprets the contents
    • Copy Adobe's copyrighted list of data structures and operators, as well as the example code and PostScript language function definitions in the written specification, to the extent necessary to use the Portable Document Format for the purposes above

    The conditions of such copyright permission are:

    • Software that accepts input in the form of the Portable Document Format must respect the access permissions specified in that document. Accessing the document in ways not permitted by the document's access permissions is a violation of the document author's copyright.
    • Anyone who uses the copyrighted list of data structures and operators, as stated above, must include an appropriate copyright notice.

    This limited right to use the copyrighted list of data structures and operators does not include the right to copy this book, other copyrighted material from Adobe, or the software in any of Adobe's products that use the Portable Document Format, in whole or in part, nor does it include the right to use any Adobe patents, except as may be permitted by an official Adobe Patent Clarification Notice (see the Bibliography)."

    Note: I see the irony of not being permitted "to copy this book...in part". However, as I am writing about the book, US Copyright law permits small quotes to be used and attributed.

    1. Re:PDF is not a closed document format by bit01 · · Score: 1

      Software that accepts input in the form of the Portable Document Format must respect the access permissions specified in that document. Accessing the document in ways not permitted by the document's access permissions is a violation of the document author's copyright.

      Close, and not really closed, but not an entirely open format either.

      If they'd made that item a recommendation, rather than a legal requirement, then I for one would've regarded the PDF standard as truly open.

      ---

      DRM'ed content breaks the copyright bargain, the first sale doctrine and fair use provisions. It should not be possible to copyright DRM'ed content.

    2. Re:PDF is not a closed document format by CrankinOut · · Score: 1
      That restriction is not a restriction of the PDF format, but a specification of correct functioning of the PDF, i.e. access controls are a specification of the format. It is a statement that if someone (you) access someone else's (Bob's) document not permitted by the document's permissions, you are violating Bob's copyright.

      The statement says nothing about the document format requiring DRM. Anyone is free to create software that produces PDF documents with no DRM. In fact, it protects the specification itself against someone bypassing access permissions and attributing the failure to PDF. The standard cannot authorize you to violate another's legitimately sought copyright.

    3. Re:PDF is not a closed document format by bit01 · · Score: 1

      I see your point however that's not what the condition as posted says. Just because the PDF creator has slapped a "do not copy" bit on some PDF is irrelevant to whether part or all of the material the PDF represents is copyright the PDF creator or not. Only the law in the relevant jurisdiction can decide that, not some specification.

      That's why I was happy with a recommendation, not a contractual requirement. The recent slashdot story on false copyright claims is relevant. The blocking of excerpting for review and analysis is another problem with it and copying for personal use is allowed in some jurisdictions also.

      A better way to implement that bit would be popup with something like "The creator of this pdf claims copyright 2007 and does not want you to copy this document at all. Copying it may or may not be legal. Do you want to continue?".

      ---

      Paid marketers are the worst zealots.

  14. For those /.'ers who still don't know... by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 1
    (Or Don't want to know...)

    PDF is an ISO Standard.

    http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/standards.ht ml/

    And here where thay are woring with ISO on PDF V1.7 and ISO 32000 http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/adobepdf.htm l/

    PDF used as a native output format by Open Office. So far Abobe have not sued over this. Just the opposite, they are promoting PDF as an implementable standard.

    If you go to here http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/pdf/top ic.html/ you will see that the specification is freely available as is a SDK.

    Does this make Adobe sound like Microsoft and especially their attitude to ODF? I think not.

    Disclaimer: I don't work for Adobe and think that in some areas their pricing and licensing policy s**ks but here, credit where credit is due.

    --
    I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
    1. Re:For those /.'ers who still don't know... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      I don't think they can sue. The standard contains no patented "technology" IIRC. You can't "copyright" a format, you can copyright the specification however of the format. But you are still free to read the specification and implement readers and writers of that format. As is done with the pdf format. Adobe have made the specification public. So its "propiroty" as in a company has specified the format, but its open in the sense that the format is strictly defined and its easy to get that definition and create readers/writers. Compare to M$ doc format.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  15. Not really about ODF, though by eck011219 · · Score: 1

    The PDF press release from the ODF Alliance is peppered with a lot of things like "open formats such as ODF ..." To me, that sounds like Japan has decided to encourage open formats, and the ODF Alliance is spinning it to be about them.

    I don't know, as was asked by others around here, whether OOXML would qualify for the same treatment by Japan -- I suspect it would, though (as would other formats), therefore making this press release little more than a bunch of spin.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  16. EU too. by mattr · · Score: 1

    Not only that. In a high level conference on research collaboration between the EU and Japan this week, the words open source and standards were included in the draft. A few years ago I remember "open source" being dropped.. Times change and Microsoft is entirely to blame for its own shortcomings.

  17. Image? by andy1307 · · Score: 1

    What's with the image of what looks like a hindu holy man with a trident?

  18. You're off topic by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Informative

    Altogether off topic. This is about a major country adopting open *standards*. Nothing says they need to use Open Source Software, Linux, or ditch MS to do so. You're grasping at troll straws.

    1. Re:You're off topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Altogether off topic."

      Not too much. The point of the other guy was "so many news about that "open" thingie, but almost no follow up". To date that's only *another* news about things that *will* (maybe) happen. I'll too wait to the moment when Slashdot publishes something in the lines of "90% of all japanese public documents already migrated to ODF", just like I'll wait for i.e. "Munich finally *is* based on open source software" (instead of "plans" going here or there).

    2. Re:You're off topic by WED+Fan · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you need dots connected. By using an unrelated and but not too dissimilar look at an idealogic driven movement, the idea is to remove the idealogue from his/her argument far enough to enable those to review their situation from a distance. Those unable to see it, do need dots connected, but then it then becomes more difficult for the idealogue to take a fresh look at their position.

      --
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
  19. Japan supporting International Standards?! Wow! by thethibs · · Score: 1

    This is not really news. Japan is an active member of just about every international standards body there is. The Japanese government has always favored standards-based products and actively supported Japanese companies in establishing standards where there were none. It's all good for business and, in Japan, what's good for business is good for the country.

    I'd say the ODF is easily pleased.

    BTW, what would a "closed international standard" be?

    --
    I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
    1. Re:Japan supporting International Standards?! Wow! by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      What would a closed international standard be? Why, ooxml, of course. Thank you ECMA!

  20. M$ is also good at spin .. by ContractualObligatio · · Score: 1

    .. and interoperability is an easy game to play. Web Services, XML, open document formats - all very possible in a closed source, embrace-and-extend model. There's a lot of things not to like about it, but reality is what we're all here to deal with.

    To be honest, I find the spin that the ODF Alliance is putting on this just as pathetic and self-serving as Microsoft. Their main enemy, the Office Open XML format, is open too: documented, royalty-free, implemented in XML, maintained by an international body. So this announcement could also be made by Microsoft.

    1. Re:M$ is also good at spin .. by Gregory+Cox · · Score: 1
      But the definition of "open standard" in the framework document is:

      1. that the standard was created through an process of open participation, and practical details have been published to a degree that allows anyone to implement what it describes
      2. that anyone can make use of it
      3. that there are several products on the market which implement it.
      Does OOXML meet all of those criteria?
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      If you all Google Slashdot, will it Slashdot Google?
    2. Re:M$ is also good at spin .. by ContractualObligatio · · Score: 1

      Erm, officially speaking, yes.

      Did you have a point?

      Incidentally, where is that definition quoted from? I didn't see it in the summary, or the linked article, any of the posts, and while I'm afraid I don't read Japanese, it doesn't sound like the translation of an offical document to me. It is also contradictory to all of definitions I can think of, including all of the ones quoted on Wikipedia.

  21. Benefits? by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    That's fine and all for church, but there are very compelling arguments (if not clear factual benefits) for changing to open standards. You're not locked into a specific application or version or vendor or toolkit or API. Middleware can be created for your data to work with proprietary applications if you so desire. You can even convert back. With proprietary software, it's a lot harder to "stop going to church" and you're pretty much stuck if your files are held hostage and you need to get work done.

  22. On the surface by polyex · · Score: 1

    this seems like a good idea, when will they land of the free embrace such a thing?

  23. Partial translation of the Japanese document by mattr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hello, I would like to mention some points from the Japanese PDF.

    First of all, Japan has some very strict new laws on how corporations must handle personal information of individuals to protect their privacy. Along with the changes in the Corporation Law recently, these laws mean that virtually all major corporations in Japan have been rewriting their articles of incorporation, employee manuals, IT department guidelines, and so on. It doesn't mean things are more secure, but it does mean they are supposed to be more secure. IIRC if your company handles the personal information on more than 500 people then you have to implement certain procedures. (Anyway I am not attempting to provide authoritative information here.)

    There also have been a number of scandals (mainly at big banks) on customer information being leaked. So now all corporations' fundamental articles include words like "leakage" and "falsification" of information as things that must be prevented. Japanese companies usually have their fiscal year begin April 1 which means that just a couple weeks ago, most corporations had their general shareholders meetings (many on the same day, to avoid organized crime from interfering) where things like this got voted on (if they weren't the previous year). ODF and standards haven't been on the plate but maybe they will be next year with this announcement.

    Okay, on to the PDF. The PDF includes definitions of many terms including "vendor lockin", "open standards", etc. ODF and XML are mentioned by name. It seems to be well written (though I have not read the whole thing). It would seem to exclude allowing Microsoft's horrible new format as an open format because it mentions in the vendor lockin definition the nonavailability of an API, or the limitation on ability to implement it due to licensing requirements. IANAL but it would seem that the government has the leeway to make sane judgements, even in the case of for example Microsoft taking over the standards process and making OOXML an international standard. That said, Japan is probably Microsoft's best or second best market.

    The document also states clearly that open formats are to be preferred, and must be used to promote exchange of information between ministries. The word "saiyou" (adopt, use) is used in the statements that say software that adopts open standards is desirable. It is not clear that this forbids the software to also support closed formats, but the spirit of the document would seem to prefer fully open software/solutions so that data may not be saved in closed formats, as this would hamper free exchange of information and the ability to store/view the documents into perpetuity.

    Here is a translation of section 4.2.3 on page 19. I, Matthew Rosin, hereby release this translated text to the world in the public domain but deny responsibility for any mistakes.

    ---
    4.2.3. Policy related to giving priority to open standards

    It is desirable for the government and public organizations to secure the mutual interoperability of information systems between administrative organizations and with related private sector and international organizations, in order to pursue efficient administration and to provide highly convenient service. To this end, it is necessary to procure software for which protocols, APIs, etc. that use interfaces that are compatible with open standards, to the extent to which implementation is possible.

    The government and public organizations, in order to secure transparency related to policy, fulfill their responsibility for providing explanations, and realize expanded participation by the citizenry, software must be procured, to the extent to which implementation is possible, for which the formats of data and files are compatible with open standards, in order to guarantee for public documents the ease of access and ability to save and browse over the long term.

    Mutual interconnection between related organizations, including governmental organs, and the free exchange of data among

  24. WHAT?? by js290 · · Score: 1

    You mean you don't need a specious govt run anti-trust trial to take down a monopoly the govt help create? I guess the lawyers had to get rich somehow...

    --
    "Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender