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$1.5B Fine Overturned For Microsoft
ddrichardson writes "Following up on an earlier story, Microsoft's $1.5bn fine in the case with Alcatel-Lucent has been overturned. Microsoft are claiming a "victory for consumers". From the article: 'A US court has overturned a decision ordering Microsoft to pay phone firm Alcatel-Lucent $1.52bn (£777m) for infringing music patents. The federal judge in San Diego reversed a jury's decision which had ruled that Microsoft's Media Player software infringed on two Alcatel patents.'"
It wouldn't take many cases like this to start a financial recession in the entire software industry and send venture capitalists scurrying away from any software startup.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I know this is M$ and all, but this is a good thing.
But go Microsoft! In other news, recently retired and newly-made Billionaire judge dies in auto wreck while trying to put ripped Van Halen CD in his Ferrari stereo!
If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
I'd like to post something witty, funny, or something about how outraged i am about all these patent trolls. Possibly something saying its a shame that they aren't sticking it to microsoft. But when there's like 3-4 patent news items on the front page (possibly only 2 right now), and that's the case every day, i just wish that it would stop. Nothing funny, nothing insightful, just same news, different day.
Any time that a patent troll, anywhere, is defeated, its a victory for all, not just consumers. More judges need to rule that software patents of the obvious are unconstitutional (i think it was covered by the suffrage amendment) so that slashdot can return to reporting on google and the iphone instead of these patent stories.
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
In lieu of patent reform, in general I am for the defendant in any patent trolling case, which this appears to be. Even though my Linux loving heart hates to see M$ win anything. But given that Fraunhofer wasn't sued, this looks alot more like trying to shoot the biggest fish in the barrel with a pellet gun and expecting the fish and everyone involved to roll over and play dead, AKA pay up. So if M$ won this time, good for them.
Prolly good for us as well.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
A "victory for the bigger legal team" I would expect.
However, if this means I can still use my MP3 player then I guess its not all bad.
The BBC article calls the overturned award a fine, but this seems incorrect. A judge and/or a jury awards damages in a tort case, they don't fine anyone. I expect such ignorance on slashdot, but on the BBC? I guess journalism is deteriorating internationally, not just in the US.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Now if the judge could rip out and shred the software patent laws while he is at it. I think patents are needed but no way in hell the way they are now. Patenting most of the programming code out there is like patenting 2+2=4. I bet whoever wrote these software patent laws did not have much insight into programming. But I could be wrong and congress maybe actually was reading this law and was doing it on purpose. ;)
About three articles down from this story, on the main page, this story is mentioned with a bunch of other patent news for the day.
At least this dupe is buried under the "read more" link and not as blatant as past dupes.
Since when has Microsoft been an advocate for consumer's rights?
The game.
Microsoft is just a company with good and bad aspects. They are not evil incarnate. Stop apologising for being pleased with the news!
You gotta admit, they've been at least trying to be more consumer friendly than they have been. I mean, Microsoft of old might have bought all the big game developers (Rockstar, Kojima Productions, Square/Enix, etc) outright so they could gain exclusive content. Today, they just toss money as an incentive and keep their fingers crossed.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
All of these tech patent lawsuits are really making me tired. Lawyers & CEOs? Bonfire? Bring lots of beer, yes.
Microsoft made good faith effort to license the technology in question from Fraunhofer for $16 million. But Alcatel-Lucent claimed that Microsoft licensed it from the wrong party. Even if that were the case, then Microsoft should only have been ordered to pay ~$16 million to Alcatel-Lucent, not 1.5 billion. That's why I felt the jury decision was BS. Why apply punitive damages to Microsoft when they made good faith effort to comply with the patent?
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Because they would have passed the cost on to consumers. To quote a Microserf friend, "we charge mondo for our dog food in Europe so that the EC wont forget that we are the big dog."
Not that we should expect MS to do otherwise. We fine them? They fine us.
This case had ramifications WAY beyond any hassle for MS. Such a sizeable and far-reaching ruling over a couple of obscure patents would have sent a shockwave through the software industry--scaring the hell out of developers and encouraging the patent trolls even more.
This is really more of the same arbitrary justice that make software patents a bad idea in the first place. M$ can and does use the same threats anyway. Their prowess in court only strengthens their position as lord and master. Business method and software patents cover things that are not really inventions, so the results will always be arbitrary and manipulable. The court has decided to promote business rather than justice and such decisions have favored M$ more than once. On these grounds, M$ will violate the patents of other with impunity while threatening everyone else with ruinous legal costs.
What you have to understand is that M$ itself is a patent troll. Almost all of their software has come from predatory acquisitions but the market has dried up because people are no longer willing to risk their money in the business where M$ can crush them. You must have noticed that all of the innovative companies, Google, Wikipedia, Facebook and others are all using gnu/linux and avoiding the desktop in order to make money. M$ has built themselves a patent warchest to assail those businesses, and has been instrumental in setting up business method and other stupid patents. Others have taken advantage of the situation, but that does not make M$ any less culpable.
No additional certainty has been added to the market that can benefit anyone. The case is far from settled but it has already cost both companies boatloads of money. Only the largest companies could weather that kind of storm and this will keep investors and small companies out of the business.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
More judges need to rule that software patents of the obvious are unconstitutional (i think it was covered by the suffrage amendment) so that slashdot can return to reporting on google and the iphone instead of these patent stories.
It would be a great thing to eliminate business method and software patents. Until that happens, the costs of them should be shouted from the rooftops. Cool gadgets are not hard to make, but the business is impossible because of crap like this. M$ is the bad guy because they lobbied, right along with the other incumbents, for these stupid patents in the first place.
its a shame that they aren't sticking it to microsoft
Yes, if software patents were actually a competitive disadvantage to GWB's little pet company, things might change.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
LOL.
The courts are collaborators with obvious evil.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
A lot of people always mention being "confused" about who to cheer for in these cases, but it's really not that hard. MS - in this case - really doesn't seem to be doing anything hard. They did in fact even license the Fraunhofer codecs for their mp3-related software in windows. Now it doesn't really mention exact what patents Alcatel-Lucent is pursuing (or suing per), but as they are mp3-related it seems that their behavior definitely seems like a cash-grab.
It's not a case of "Microsoft VS Patent Troll," it's simply a case of "a large company VS patent troll." There's no need to stick it to MS in this case, as they're in the right and a victory for A-L would have a negative impact upon the rest of the industry. Personally I think that suing for improper/trollish/crap patents should leave one open to double-damage-countersuits. It might cost a lot to defend and rebut, but if you've got an obvious patent troll simply trying to hone in on some cash, making them bleed a bit of money and setting an example for the rest of their ilk might be a good investment (and if anyone can afford to spend cash on anti-troll lawyers, it's MS). As it stands, the way the current patent system is used/abused many of these cases are little more than vaguely veiled extortion, and should in the courts be treated as such.
They even used to run alarmist stories about Saddam Hussein's WMDs:
n t/1191203.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/corresponde
Yep, that's the Beeb - claiming Saddam already had nukes. Of course, that was when the agenda was to blame Bush I for not removing Saddam from power.
Damn if they didn't forget all about that a few years later, though, when their agenda turned to blaming Bush II and Blair for removing Saddam from power.
So much for just reporting news. If you thought the BBC was about news and not agendas, you've been in a hole for quite a few years.
"Hello, Judge Rudi Brewster ? Good Evening.
This Bill G. calling, yes, that Bill G.
I was browsing a bit into our files and reports and I happened upon a funny browser history forwarded to me by ehh... someone in my team.
You know what ? When thinking about the term "Dwarf Tossing" i would think of dimly illuminated pubs with a midget in a footbal gear. I had to turn my monitor 90 to really understand what the pictures wer...
Ah, yes, yes, I understand, it is late and you have a judgement to overturn early tomorrow, yes, better I let you work now, sorry for disturbing. Bye"
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
On that list are IBM, Linspire and Sun. The original decision was bad for everyone, though it obviously didn't knock you off your pedestal.
I fail to see how that makes software patents good for anyone or that there is any justice to their administration. It does make current advocates of software patents look foolish.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
M$ BAD! Patents BAD! But--- *head explodes*
Because Microsoft would certainly charge the consumer less if only their per-unit costs weren't so high.
include $sig;
1;
As a developer and upcoming business entrepreneur, patents are an area I'm forced to consider and become familiar with. I realize I'm not saying anything new, but, I like to think out loud and hear what others have to say when I'm learning a new area. :)
1. Patents seem to have turned from being a reward, incentive or recognition for inventors and innovation to being a bludgeoning weapon for business. In many ways, the patent system seems to be used as a legalized method to facilitate anti-competitive practices. What better way to bar startups from becoming a threat than to mire them in litigation right from the start.
2. The only groups that seem to consistently profit from the patent system are lawyers and the USPTO.
3. It seems the patent system can never be run properly when the government agency running it is doing so for profit. The USPTO has great incentive to grant patents as quickly as possible to increase the money coming into the agency. Missing a few obvious patents here and prior art there doesn't seem to be a high priority.
4. It's bothersome to me that the system allows patent trolls to profit; filing for patents they have no intention of developing but waiting in the grass like a snake to pounce on others who come along. It feels like one requirement for filing a patent is to demonstrate not only a working version at the time of filing but also to not be granted full protection and legalization to bludgeon others until you're actually using the patent for real business. Trademarks work in that fashion.
Runesabre
Enspira Online
As twitter told us. So as you see, he's uniquely qualified to explain how they are evil, as opposed to being stuck in a system they did not create and has made victims of them more often than not.
> Because they would have passed the cost on to consumers.
No, they wouldn't. Business aim to charge the most money that the customers are prepared to pay. If Microsoft are able to raise the price of their product and still sell it they would have done it already and made more money.
The extra cost from the fines would have cut into their profits and so it is the shareholders that would be harmed, not the end users.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
It's really bizarre how FOSSies are so ready to cheerlead for anything anti-Microsoft that they will both blindly and gleefully ignore the implications of what they are cheerleading.
The FOSSies were so happy to "get Microsoft" with their so-called monopoly lawsuit that they completely ignored the insane restrictions it puts on software makers who wish to improve their own products. And oddly enough, they could really care less with how many software vendors Apple tramples over adding features to it's own TRUE monopolist platform.
MS is a phony monopoly: a company which achieved ubiquity through their superiority over their competitors.
Apple is the TRUE monopoly: a company which has destroyed anyone even peripherally tied to making money from the sales of Apple computers or products. Now, about the only Apple product you can buy outside an Apple store or Apple.com is an iPod. And they probably even begrudge THAT.
So the FOSSies may love Apple, but if the computing world would ever become just Apple and FOSS... you would see Apple turn on them in a heart-beat. In fact... Apple hasn't really even supported FOSS in any tangible way. I guess lip service from Steve Jobs is more than enough for the FOSSies to beg him to drop trou so they can give him some lip service.
This is really more of the same arbitrary justice that make software patents a bad idea in the first place
How so? MS paid Fraunhoffer for the patents (as did the rest of the tech industry) which were co-developed by Fraunhoffer, Alcatel-Lucent, AT&T. If Fraunhoffer was not the right authority to license these patents, Alcatel should have sued them for falsely representing themselves as such. That makes sense, and that's the nutshell version of what the Judge ruled.
Their prowess in court only strengthens their position as lord and master.
Your hatred of MS is blinding your objectivity, and even your desire to seek the truth. MS adopted patents as a defensive strategy (see this 1991 memo from Bill Gates http://www.bralyn.net/etext/literature/bill.gates/ challenges-strategy.txt. Even back then he seemed to understand the ramifications of software patents better than anyone else. Also note his referencing of this memo calling out the dangers of software patents: http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/against-software-pat ents.html. The honesty of his stance and clarity of vision is something his critics here should take note of.
What you have to understand is that M$ itself is a patent troll.
What you have to understand is that MS did not (and still does not) have the lobbying power to change the retarded patent system. Don't blame them for playing by the rules and making the best of the hand they are dealt with. The OSS movement has more power because the entire industry is rallying behind it - but MS has an obligation to its shareholders to not become a part of that movement - linux on the desktop threatens to erode MS's core business. It's really that simple..
Almost all of their software has come from predatory acquisitions but the market has dried up because people are no longer willing to risk their money in the business where M$ can crush them. You must have noticed that all of the innovative companies, Google, Wikipedia, Facebook and others are all using gnu/linux and avoiding the desktop in order to make money. M$ has built themselves a patent war-chest to assail those businesses, and has been instrumental in setting up business method and other stupid patents. Others have taken advantage of the situation, but that does not make M$ any less culpable.
You conveniently left Apple of the list of 'innovators'. Apple is extremely innovative, they do not avoid the desktop and they have a patent war-chest. Naturally it was inconvenient for you to mention them. Google has its share of patents as well. It's really rich of you to think that Google will ever donate any of its search-related patents to OSS. They will donate any patents that help erode MS's core business. They will hold on to any patents that help them maintain their core business (search). Are we to hate them for that? Absolutely not -- it's good strategy. But hating MS for the same behavior makes you a hypocrite.
No additional certainty has been added to the market that can benefit anyone. The case is far from settled but it has already cost both companies boatloads of money. Only the largest companies could weather that kind of storm and this will keep investors and small companies out of the business.
Finally some sense. And while this is true, think about a world without patents -- how will any small company prevent an MS/Apple/Google/IBM from using/reverse-engineering/copying/whatever thier work and eroding thier business? I'm not a fan of the current patent system but I don't think getting rid of software patents is the answer. The very purpose of patents is to protect the incentive to innovate. Whether the solution lies in better screening so that fewer 'obvious' things become
Step 1: Create a Slashdot account
Step 2: Shoot a little subscriber money in Taco's direction
Step 3: Enter http://slashdot.org/~twitter/ in your URL bar
Step 4: Watch in amazement as the power of the Slashcode Engine provides anybody who gives a fuck with a complete history of every word you've ever posted in this forum.
Oh, I almost forgot...
Step 5: Enter http://slashdot.org/~erris/ in your URL bar
Step 6: Watch in amazement as the power of the Slashcode Engine provides anybody who gives a fuck with a complete history of every word you've ever posted in this forum under your sockpuppet account.
And if you do it with Firefox on Linux, you can do this entire process without executing one single line of Micro$oft's smelly, nasty, tricksy code. (It's got cooties, ya know.)
Watch in amazement as the power of the Slashcode Engine provides anybody who gives a fuck with a complete history of every word you've ever posted in this forum.
I get a kick out of this sort of thing. Imagine a summer intern at some M$ PR firm having to read and make a report on all 7000+ plus Twitter comments. If you credit me with eris posts, I'm a member of the ten thousand club. Keep reading! You get 15 minutes to crap, 30 minutes for lunch and must be here between 8AM and 8PM to earn your five franks an hour. God, that's got to hurt, but these turds have shown me tremendous lists they thought would embarrass me. They must have read the majority to have found them, and that's just too funny for words.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
MS adopted patents as a defensive strategy (see this 1991 memo from Bill Gates .... [insipid praise of M$] ... The honesty of his stance and clarity of vision is something his critics here should take note of.
I have taken note of M$'s use of patents as a weapon:
Then you can tell me about M$ honesty and their use of patents.
think about a world without patents -- how will any small company prevent an MS/Apple/Google/IBM from using/reverse-engineering/copying/whatever thier work and eroding thier business?
That's a tangent that's intersting but has nothing to do with business method and software patents, which are a novelty from the 1980s. I can easily imagine a better world without them.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.