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Paramount to Drop Blu-Ray for HD-DVD
JM78 writes to tell us The New York Times is reporting that Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation will be dropping support for Blu-ray Disc and going solely with HD-DVD for their next gen DVDs. "Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation, said consumers seeking to switch to high-definition DVDs will be enticed by the movies available for HD-DVD players. He added the lower price for the Toshiba devices will appeal to the family market. 'It's a game-changer, what they're doing, and it's why we decided to throw in with them,' Katzenberg said."
I smell someone making an argument to get a better deal.
- real hackers don't have sigs -
I have to ask myself, what's the motive a studio would have with going toward HD DVD technology vs. Blu-Ray?
It seems to me that they are trying to steer towards a format that contains half the data storage capacity with the goal of having yet another format go obsolete sooner rather than later. They must make a ton of money when people re-purchase titles on a new format. Soon these same studios will be 'crying' because they don't have enough data space on a disc, therefore they have to push a new standard.
I know I don't. It really doesn't matter if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins out in the end, there can't be that many consumers out there who are planning to start upgrading their existing DVD collection to one of these formats. I have an HDTV and regular DVD's look just fine. I know these new formats offer better quality, but the difference and enhancements are not enough to warrant an upgrade. From VHS to DVD was worthwhile, this is just a stop gap measure. I personally don't plan to upgrade at all until something significantly better comes along. Maybe the next generation after this...
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html# dp
I don't think this was the best time for Paramount to jump ship on the Blu-ray line. While they _may_ have looked at the numbers involved, units sold, etc., all of that data was over the last year or so. What they didn't really consider was that a lot of non-videophile (aka., people who would buy a specific HD-DVD / Blu-ray player) purchasers were going to start purchasing PS3s...
...
With Sony's recent price drop, the sales of their console have increased. As far as consoles go, this isn't a tremendous jump -- they're still trailing behind Microsoft and Nintendo as far as sales. As far as HD-Movie players go, however, this is quite a jump. According to 'figures' and sources., they are seeing up to a 135% increase in sales after their price drop. That's a lot of Blu-ray players on the market that weren't there a short time ago.
Personally, I'm pissed! I purchased a PS3 during the price drop and I'm ok with what Sony has to offer for the console and with what movies are presently out (though, admittedly, I'd like more on both fronts), but you'll notice I said 'ok', I didn't say I was a raving Sony fanboy. I think there could be more selection of movies and games -- and it saddens me that I will now not be able to own a 1080p copy of Transformers to watch on my 51" HDTV because some pockets were apparently lined.
I understand that I'm not the norm in the market -- a lot of people don't have HDTVs, and a lot of people that do don't have big-screened HDTVs, but even with that, I think that it's a big step backwards for Paramount to alienate my class of shopper.
Then again, I'm sure everyone who was alienated by the Betamax -> VHS move was saying the same thing then
To the darkened skies once more, and ever onward.
Blogger "Swanni" says the HD-DVD folks coughed up 100 mil to help Paramount reach the decision.
- js.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htmSee the stories on www.thedigitalbits.com
The Victor Company of Japan called.
They said they want their market disruption techniques back.
Previously Blu-Ray sales had been about 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray, though the whole year (66% to 34%, to be exact). Sony Blu-Ray players in the last few months have actually been outselling Toshiba standalone players, and that's not counting the PS3 numbers.
Target had announced they were only offering a dedicated Blu-Ray player in store, and Blockbuster was only going to offer Blu-Ray in store.
Now, with Paramount and Dreamworks the equation has changed. Blu-Ray still has really significant exclusives in Fox, Disney, and Sony (Star Wars/Pixar/Spider Man!). But, it will take much longer for Blu-Ray to win, if it can eventually. This means there is actually a war, as opposed to HD-DVD claiming tehre was a war and slowly fading away which is what was happening previous to this announcement.
The rumor is that Microsoft paid Paramount $50M, and Dreamworks $100M, to make this switch (until now they had been neutral). Why would Microsoft do this? Pretty simple, if consumers are confused about which format to buy they are more likley just to download HD content from the only provider currently sellign HD content online. That provider is Microsoft...
Bad news basically for consumers interested in HD content, as this will really kill sales for both formats through the year. Consumers want one choice.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Well yes but the real truth is that DVDs have been beating Blu Ray and HD DVD by about 500:1
I don't think that blu ray has all that much in the way of momentum.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
The end result is obvious: eventually every player is going to be pushing drives that handle both high-capacity/high-def formats as well as DVD and CD, much like we saw with DVD-R vs. DVD+R. I agree though: this has been the only good news on HD-DVD's side in a while.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I guess in the end we will end up with both formats, just like with DVD+ and -.
:)
Great, paying for two licenses always rule! Because one open one wouldn't do!
What was chinas next-gen format called now again? I would assume their players will be cheap
(That's irony).
Consumers won't buy into either format until they see some signs of stability.
As long as it's on-again, off-again, now-you-see-it, now-you-don't, consumers will just hold off.
Once a company declares it will support either format... or both... it should stick with whatever they've announced. Fickle commitments that change every six months just hurt both formats.
As with the stock market, what investors hate is uncertainty.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
There's no such thing as "too much porn". Now maybe "too much pr0n"
It'll quit hurtin' once the pain stops.
Neither format has caught on at all, and the only players that are in homes in any sort of numbers are the PS3. I think that most people who have a PS3 bought it as a gaming machine and don't care that it can play any sort of DVD. Any format decision made by any studio is subject to change without notice; if Blu-Ray becomes dominant I am sure that Paramount will make Blu-Ray disks. Other than all of the major studios going to only one format, the only significant format change by a studio would be if Sony started to sell their movies in HD-DVD.
It could be that this is not a Beta / VHS format war, it be a Laserdisc flop and neither of the new formats will catch on; so far, it does not appear that people see a compelling reason to buy either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players and disks.
to use on Linux, after having paid for the appropriate hardware? Or are we required to pay for the hardware + Windows + software + disk?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
It seems to me that a really big reason why neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD are likely to catch on is the simple fact that sneakernet in general is going the way of the buggy whip.
Nor is it that regular DVDs are “good enough,” as some have suggested, but rather that we’re already moving beyond the station wagon filled with tapes, to simple high-bandwidth networks.
It won’t be Blu-Ray that kills HD-DVD, or vice-versa, or even regular DVDs. It’ll be YouTube, iTunes, Bittorrent, and garden variety video-on-demand from your local telco monopoly. Sure, there’re plenty of shortcomings with all of those today, from quality to DRM to “ownership” to the time it takes to acquire a movie. But neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD intrinsically offer anything better over the online equivalents for those with bandwidth.
Cheers,
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
Just reiterates my resolve that I'll buy a player when there's a decent dual-format player.
I am backing whoever defeats DRM so I can connect an HDMI cable to my MythTV box and record.watch Hi-Def content. Until that happens I will record analog only and get the High-Def content through other channels.
Exactly, the 2:1 sales ratio doesn't mean much when they sold so few units. It would be like comparing Mac computer sales to Linux computer sales, and forgetting to mention that windows sales are still through the roof. The simple fact is that most people don't care about HD movies. Same way they didn't care about HD Audio. There's just too little of a quality difference for most people to justify the inflated price, and a format war doesn't help the situation in the slightest.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
What if there was a war, and nobody came.
The High Def format war seems more like a clown pie fight to me. Neither side is offering me anything that I want.
The technology is so laden with anti-customer "features" that, frankly, I hope the both lose. I think this is a realistic possibility as downloadable HD content becomes commonly available, which you hit on later in your post.
Peter
Downsize DC Today!
As for the rumor posited above in another post that Microsoft paid a combined $150M to these two studios to induce a switch, the answer is obvious. Microsoft sells an HD-DVD player add-on for XBox 360, and likely hopes to see game titles released in the future utilizing it. It has totally thrown in with the (worse) HD-DVD system, and can't change horses now since Sony owns BluRay. Microsoft has a huge stake in seeing HD-DVD win.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Paramount is the biggest studio of 2007 with 18% market share.
January 1-August 19, 2007
Overall Gross: $6.585 billion
Rank Distributor Market
Share Total
Gross* Movies
Tracked 2007
Movies**
1 Paramount 18.1% $1,189.5 15 11
2 Warner Bros. 14.8% $974.8 23 13
3 Buena Vista 14.1% $930.6 16 8
4 Sony / Columbia 14.0% $924.6 19 16
5 Universal 11.3% $745.0 13 11
6 20th Century Fox 10.9% $719.9 17 9
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/
"BluRay, please meet betamax."
I wouldn't call blu-ray the new betamax just yet, with Blockbuster already announcing they're carrying only blu-ray titles primarily due to PS3 sales.
But you have a point. Sony doesn't have a great history of making formats that eventually become the standard. Minidisc? DAT? UMD movies? If I was Sony I'd practically give away Blu-ray players just to get them out there, then in a year or two once it becomes a standard re-coop their costs in license fees. Microsoft has been doing this for years with the Xbox and Xbox360 but it was necessary to make them a major player in the console wars and at times Xbox has had the most sales.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Your missing a few facts:
You are talking about consoles and watching movies, however, the battle will not be won there but with stand alones. Right now you can get a HD-DVD stand alone for $299 at Best Buy. The corresponding Blu-Ray player goes for $599 (double the cost). In just two months it will be Christmas season and guess what people will be buying? That's right the cheaper one. The $299 cost is the price point at which consumers jump on these things. That's why there has been a huge increase in sales. Blu-Ray may be ahead right now, but they will price themselves out of the market. The selling point for the HD-DVD will be something like this?
Why pay $600 when you buy ours for $300 and buy 15 movies to go with it for the same cost of just buying the other?
What's that? Your favorite movie isn't on this format yet? Wait to next year, they release it then.
And, btw Bourne Ultimatum is one of the movies which will be on HD-DVD, not Blu-Ray.
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These competing standards (that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) are both losers. When I go buy movies, I still buy DVDs (despite having an HD TV for 3+ years). Know why? Because it plays in my player.
Eventually, a common player will be affordable for both HD and Blu. At that point, do you know who will win my business? That's right... Netflix. With the industry proving to me that ownership is dumb... I've gone from buying 3-5 DVDs a month to 1 every three months. When I get an upgraded player, I don't expect that there will ever be a movie that I'll want to own.
Am I wrong, or has the format "war" done nothing but alienated consumers and shown that companies are too egotistical to work together to create standards that are actually beneficial to the end users... and for that, I trust them as far as I can throw them.
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I've noticed at all the rip you off outlets (Visions) HD-DVD movies tend to be more expensive then blurays ones for exactly the same movies. I wonder why?
Because HD-DVD ships you combo discs that play in both normal DVD players and HD-DVD players - and you get to pay extra for the priviledge.
As a bonus, sometimes the layers seperate and destroy the disc 300 had that issue. It's not common though, just like the Blu-Ray layer seperation issue was in small batches. Still, paying extra for discs where you only want the HD content is really annoying.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As soon as I read the headline, I was reminded of the DreamWorks clan( Geffen, Katzenberg, and Spielberg ) all wearing Microsoft "BoB" hats back when Microsoft reinvented the user interface of the future. It was a short time after that when we all saw Bill Gates join in the mug shots as they all announced the DreamWorks Interactive partnership( Microsoft and DreamWorks ).
So, what does Microsoft "BoB" have to do with this? Is there any wonder why Katzenberg is committing to back the HD DVD format of a very wealthy financial partner? HD-DVD is as much Microsofts format as it is Toshiba's IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Blu-Ray has Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter, 300, Ratatouille, Simpsons, The Bourne Ultimatum, All 4 Die Hard movies, Knocked Up, Oceans 13, Fantastic Four 2, Surf's Up (never underestimate DVD sales on a kid's movie like this), Rush Hour 3, etc. I think you need to get your facts straight. Lets go through that list of movies: 1. Pirates 3 - Disney so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 2. Spiderman 3 - Sony so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 3. Harry Potter - WB format neutral. In fact many of us are already enjoying the 4th Harry Potter movie on HD DVD 4. 300 - WB format neutral but with a better feature set on the HD DVD 5. Ratatouille - Disney so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 6. Simpsons - Fox so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 7. The Bourne Ultimatum - Universal so it is HD DVD exclusive 8. Die Hard - Fox so it is Blu-Ray exclusive 9. Knocked Up - Universal so it is HD DVD exclusive 10. Oceans 13 - WB so it is format neutral 11. Fantastic Four- I'm not sure on this one. It might be Blu-Ray exclusive since it is a Fox movie, but the first one was as well and it is available for import on HD DVD, so I'm going to guess this movie will be format neutral 12. Surf's Up - Sony so it's Blu-Ray exclusive 13. Rush Hour 3 - WB so it is format neutral As you can see less than half of the movies you listed are exclusive to Blu-Ray. I say the race is pretty even now.
Links to top A/V sites:
= 11351599t p://www.guidetohometheater.com/hddiscplayers/1206p s3blu/index3.htmla tion-3/ps3-better-console-or-blu-ray-player/p ://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hd-dvd-bluray/1927/sh ootout-3-blu-ray-disc-players-page9.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=273
ht
http://www.insert25.com/playst
htt
I could go on, but I don't need to. It says more that http://hdtvmagazine.com/ uses the PS3 as their "reference" player for BluRay. So does the fact that http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ used it as well.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
If those are included as sales then Blu-ray is doing even worse since Sony & Company have been doing the same thing.
Most hollywood films you would see now in the cinema were edited using Digital_intermediates; film scanned at either 2K or (probably more common now) 4K and then recorded back to film. That is 4000 pixels wide, not 4000 lines. So at the now popular 1:2.35 aspect ratio, that is less than 7MP.
Plus when projected, the actual resolution of film as seen off the silver screen is very, very low. This is simply because running at 24 fps through a projector and being stopped for a brief moment it is on screen, the frame is never completely flat or motionless. Plus the frame is tiny and the much larger magnification needed compared to a digital projector's CCD/whatever brings with it a lot of unsharpness due to lens flaws. Not to mention the positive film you see in the theater is a 3rd or 4th generation copy from the original negative.
This is why even 2K digital scans in the theater are a lot sharper than any project 35mm/24fps film will ever be. Not to mention far less black time in between frames.
Back to HD-DVD:
If you have a computer or laptop capable of playing it back and an HDTV with HDMI or DVI input (or a converter plug) you should try a downloaded HD rip. (search for "1080p" on any torrent site) I only have a 37" 720p TV with a rather good upscaling HDMI DVD player. But even at just 720p, downloaded 4 mb/sec x264 movies ripped from BR/HDVD played back on this TV using DVI from my MacBook Pro look a lot better than any upscaled DVDs.
I also can't wait for Dolby TrueHD audio from the actual discs!
That said, a far cheaper upgrade would have been h.264 on the same 9GB disk. No room for TrueHD audio, but any feature film would have fit at a high enough bitrate to put any DVD to shame.
Obvious? I don't buy that argument.
FTA: "Blu-ray discs can hold more data -- 50 gigabytes compared with HD DVDs 30 GB -- but the technology requires new manufacturing techniques and factories, boosting initial costs. HD DVDs, on the other hand, are essentially DVDs on steroids, meaning movie studios can turn to existing assembly lines to produce them in mass."
I'm not an expert on the technical aspects of either format, but if this is correct, there is huge incentive for companies to go HD DVD already. Especially so if the movie industry follows the example of the music industry and makes moves to do away with DRM. There isn't much outside of a few GB more space at the cost of much higher manufacturing at that point and there is really no need to go Blu-ray. The format will die. Comparing this to DVD+/-R simply isn't anywhere near the same at all IMHO.
I am Jack's smirking revenge.
That is probably why they are being dropped and they played along wiht Sony so far because they did not want to miss out in case it became standard.
This is how Sony lost to VHS. All the vcr makers viewed them as competitors so they supported VHS. Same with IBM and OS/2 vs WIndows. IBM is a mean monopoly so support the underdog which is windows.
http://saveie6.com/
Well perhaps the other parts of Sony don't like the thought of downloading movies. Sony do make a lot more hardware than Microsoft, and stand to sell more kit if downloading doesn't take off. Not so for Microsoft.
HD-DVD only have one level of encryption that keeps getting broken all the time.
Blu-Ray has two levels of encryption, one of them can apparently only be broken for an individual Blu-Ray disk and player.
So if you looking for something that can easily be ripped/ played on free software then you need to back HD-DVD.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
The truth is, 128 KBit AAC is pretty low fidelity sound. But it didn't stop apple from selling 3 billion songs. CD Quality is low fidelity compared to SACD and DVD-Audio. Most CDs are put so loud in the mastering process, that most of the waveforms are severely clipped, creating terrible sound. My point is, most people either don't notice, or don't care. CDs took over tapes because they didn't wear out, and because you could skip to any track. DVDs took over VHS for pretty much the same reasons. HD-DVD and blu-ray don't offer any functional advantages over DVD, only differences in quality. And that's not something most people are willing to pay for.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
The only BD advantages are 10GB of unused space, JVM and extra DRM... all of which add (mostly unnecessary/futile) costs/complexity in the player and media distribution chains.
Since both HD-DVD and Blueray streams have maximum bitrates of 18Mbps (nearly twice DVD's 1X spec), HD-DVD's 15GB is already (though barely) sufficient to store a 2h movie at the maximum allowed bitrate. From what I read though, it seems most HD movies (both HD-DVD and Blueray) are encoded at rates in the area of 5-6Mbps so there should be plenty of space left for extras even on HD-DVD - at current typical rates, HD-DVD would be good for 5-7 hours, plenty long enough for any of the LotR extended editions. I personally do not care which one wins as long as I can watch stuff in full HD without flipping discs half-way.
HD-DVD's 15GB capacity is sufficient for its primary purpose: cost-efficient HD movie distribution. Worst case, HD-DVD specs do allow for dual-layer discs should some titles (or disc writers) require extra space. For Joe Sixpack (at least those who do not have a PS3), the format war is likely to remain irrelevant until stand-alone players drop below $200. After this point, things could snowball towards HD-DVD - HD-DVD will almost certainly get there first, possibly this year.
I don't know where you heard this, but HD-DVD has many more backers than "only" Toshiba and Microsoft. Here is a short list. Also, keep in mind that HD-DVD is the format supported by the DVD Forum, aka the DVD consortium, the builders and maintainers of the original DVD format, which means that every company that backs DVDs is indirectly backing HD-DVD, whether they want to or not.
And while it's true that a common misconception is that Sony "owns" Blu-ray, it's also true that Sony is THE major backer and has the most at stake in Blu-ray winning the format war. The movie studios are still on the fence. Even the studios that released Blu-ray versions of movies have only released minor movies and old movies, and could switch at the drop of a hat at any time. Ditto Blockbuster video. If Blu-ray suddenly and dramatically lost the format war to HD-DVD, they wouldn't be impacted very much. (They've planned it that way, incidentally.) However, Sony sold its soul in including the Blu-ray drive in its PS3, and if the format fails, they'll be FUBAR.
Of course, I personally don't think that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will win the format war. The next major format is not media at all; it's network delivery of content. Ten years from now, the concept of having to put a disc into a drive to watch a movie will seem quaint.
Both Blu-ray and HD DVD use the same AACS-128bit scheme but Blu-ray is coming out with a new scheme as AACS-128bit has been cracked already.
HD DVD has no Write and Erase format standard. After market HD DVD burners are virtually non-existent and are only supported on Windows. There is no HD DVD camcorder standard. HD DVD has lower capacity and a lower maxiumum bandwidth (bitrate). There are no HD DVD video recorder settop devices. There is no HD-DVD ROM (software) standard. Blu-ray has all of those things.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.