Windows Genuine Advantage Servers Out

krewemaynard writes to let us know that Microsoft has been having major problems with its WGA servers since at least Friday evening. Quoting Ars: "Users of both Windows XP and Windows Vista were writing to say that they could not validate their installations using WGA, and one user even said that his installation was invalidated by the service... The Microsoft WGA Forums are full of problem reports, and Microsoft WGA Program Manager Phil Liu has acknowledged that there is a problem, and that MS is investigating." Update: 07/25 22:10 GMT by KD :Microsoft has identified and fixed the problem and posted instructions for anyone whose system mistakenly failed a WGA check. (The link posted earlier was to a 2006 article.)

Comments

HaHa

[jo42]

> "However, the sense we get from Phil Liu is that Microsoft is pretty much in the dark right now."

Nothing new here. Move along.

WGA sucks

[The Bungi]

I like and use Microsoft software, especially the development tools and servers, and I've (almost) always considered they are worth the money. But WGA is the most stupid thing Microsoft has ever done. I could understand product activation to a certain extent - it's really no different than most commercial software protection schemes in most respects. But WGA needs to be killed off. WGA is a hell of a lot closer to treating customers like criminals than WPA ever was.

Personally I've never had problems with WPA or WGA, but this incident pisses me off just thinking about how pissed off I would be if that would ever happen to me. Microsoft needs to understand that there are limits to how much bullshit people can take, even among people who appreciate some of their software.

On the other hand it's not like I'd switch to Linux anyway. Ubuntu completely screwed up my X configuration after an apt-get upgrade that took two hours (6.x to 7.4) and I just shut the thing down. I need to move my FreeNAS to a better box anyway so that's what I'll probably do after wiping it. If I had a dime for every time I've typed su vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf I'd get me an iPhone or something.

Lack of choices suck too.

Re:WGA sucks

[pallmall1]

It will work out of the box and you won't have to spend hours recompiling the kernel etc. to get it to work.

Will it validate?

Re:WGA sucks

[arth1]

On the other hand it's not like I'd switch to Linux anyway. Ubuntu completely screwed up my X configuration after an apt-get upgrade that took two hours (6.x to 7.4) and I just shut the thing down. I need to move my FreeNAS to a better box anyway so that's what I'll probably do after wiping it.

This prompts the question of why on earth you're running NAS on a box with a head anyhow? If you're going to use a box for a NAS server, hooking up a graphics card to it is counter-productive, and using a typical GUI-based distro likewise. It's something that people brought up in the Microsoft way of thinking might do, but if relegating an old PC to become a NAS, the first thing I would do is get rid of anything I don't need, including graphics cards, whose main purpose in a server is to collect dust and increase heat.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:WGA sucks

[jeevesbond]

It will work out of the box and you won't have to spend hours recompiling the kernel etc. to get it to work

Are you just horribly mis-informed, joking, trolling or shilling? The missus and I have been using GNU+Linux on our laptops, desktops and servers (2 laptops, 2 desktops, 1 home server and one dedicated web server) and have never compiled the Linux kernel. The only times I've ever bothered compiling anything is if I want cutting-edge, not-even-released-yet software, and what's wrong with that?

Funny, I was starting to think that there would be a single day on Slashdot without an anti-Microsoft story.

Here's a deal for you: when there is a single day where Microsoft don't cock things up, shill standards organsations or act as an abusive monopoly then there will be a single day on Slashdot without an anti-Microsoft story.

Re:WGA sucks

[aichpvee]

They'd just be creating a market for knockoff dongles. A real solution (for microsoft) would be to just accept the shitloads of cash they're making and stop thinking that they need to act like assholes when they're not rolling around in huge piles of it.

For the rest of us there's always the real solution of just not using it. It's been working out pretty well for me.

Re:WGA sucks

[The Bungi]

No, my NAS is a headless Fedora server install running on another, older box. The one that was running Ubuntu is beefier, so that's where I'm going to move NAS to.

That box also has my SVN repo but not much else, so it's never had X installed at all.

Re:WGA sucks

[Computershack]

The only times I've ever bothered compiling anything is if I want cutting-edge, not-even-released-yet software, and what's wrong with that?

It's 2007. I use cutting edge software on Windows, to the point of daily builds. Never needed to compile one yet.

Re:WGA sucks

[GPL Apostate]

Apple ran their 'cloners' out of business not that long ago.

Earlier, they sued anybody with a similar GUI out of business (except Microsoft. They essentially 'created' Microsoft's market for them by running all GUI-on-x86 competitors out of the market for Microsoft)

Earlier yet, they sued anybody with a machine similar to the Apple II.

Apple has a long history of 'Innovation by Litigation.'

Re:WGA sucks

[hairyfeet]

While it's agp and not pci,most boards made in the last 10 years have an agp,so here you go. http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p= ItemDetail&item=CRD10801

Re:WGA sucks

[Ajehals]

Makes me wish you could still pick up a pci video card for $5 at places. It cant be just me who has a shelf full of pci video cards. Or maybe I should start throwing legacy kit out (my current laptop is a 500Mhz Dell, simply because its little, light and just keeps going - 2 batteries give me 5-6 hours of usage, and there are two bays...) but I just cant bear to get rid of stiff that could be useful to me or someone else...

Hell the pile of semi working laptops I have sat here very from a powerbook 100 (still works) through a dell latitude ( I think a 166 Mhz processor) through to a High end HP laptop with a busted screen (runs headless).

But as for PCI video cards, they always come in handy, like whenever I feel the need to add another monitor to my desktop - I was up to 4 for a while but the S3 card I used on monitor 4 was less than worthless at 800x600, (I'm back to a 15" a 19" and a 21" all on different cards, one of which is AGP). In fact on top of a stack of pci video cards I also seem to have a pile of 15" LG monitors that have been retired..

Forgot the point of the post now, but I haven't had a coffee since 6 so its probably OK.

Re:WGA sucks

[watchingeyes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_litigation_of _Apple_Inc

Doesn't exactly prove his point, but Apple is known as a litigious company.

Re:WGA sucks

[LiquidFire_HK]

You missed a spot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_litigation_of _Apple_Inc.

Re:WGA sucks

[BlueParrot]

Ubuntu completely screwed up my X configuration after an apt-get upgrade that took two hours (6.x to 7.4) and I just shut the thing down.

So let me see here.

a) You didn't read the upgrade instructions but simply assumed Ubuntu = Debian and tried to manually switch versions using apt-get.
b) Even on Debian upgrading between versions is done using dist-upgrade rather than upgrade.
c) You got lazy and interrupted the process halfway through
d) The only problem you had was that you had to reconfigure X

Now, let us hypothetically assume that Windows had a package manager that let you upgrade from XP to Vista over the net. Let us further assume that instead of following the instructions for how to use it, you run a low-level tool with incorrect command line parameters to do it the way you would have done it on a completely different system. Let us finally assume you interrupted the thing halfway through. How much do you want to bet that fixing your display settings would be the only problem you would experience as a consequence?

In a word: PEBKAC

Re:WGA sucks

[sumdumass]

Personally I've never had problems with WPA or WGA,

I have had the WGA haunt me. It comes in at the startup/login screen telling you your version of windows is pirated. It then bugs you some more about it. It offers a link to fix the problem but it is a link to a site that tells you your running a stolen version of windows and attempts to blame it on your tech support for fixing your computer with pirated software and then it says you could have bought it from a vendor who isn't reputable and could have pirated the software. (yes, I paraphrased but it isn't anything different from what is on the site).

Unfortunately, it also wants you to pay the going street price to fix it. And it is very challenging to tell your customer that MS is over reacting and you didn't try to cheat them. I mean common, Microsoft said so and they know more about their software then you do right? And when you get MS on the phone, they tell you the OEM is responsible for it and won't say a word about it might be an mistake, and if it is, the license key will be replaced free of charge. Finally I told the guy, "I have been working on your computers and supplying you computers for almost 10 years. If you don't trust me after this 10 years of faithful service, I don't need your business" And he came around. I called my supplier and they instantly gave em a new key over the phone and overnighted a new license CoA.

If you ever get hit with the WGA, hope that whoever sold you the computer is still around or whoever sold you the OS can be reached and that there is a record of the transaction. The computer I am talking about was 4 years old with no problems at all until one day abou 6 or 7 months ago when the WGA insisted I was a crook. Since I built the system, sold it and maintain it, I was covered under everyone of the "someone is trying to screw you ;)" scenarios that MS offered up to get the user to buy a legit copy.

I think they should be sued but I cannot find the web pages for evidence without the WGA going south again. Something I'm not willing to deal with on purpose. Next time around, I will save the pages and print them out, It won't be the same.

Liability

[nurb432]

Too bad they are not liable for any costs/lost revenue by their customers that are caused by this.

Too bad it doesn't happen more often, and piss off more people.

Personally it doesnt effect me either way :)

Slashdot Delay

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, by the time it hits Slashdot, WGA is operational again. Digg and Reddit have had this on the FP for hours

"Fight club scenario?"

[ivoras]

A friend of mine was immediately reminded of the Fight Club movie - how they tried to blow up all the banks at the end so nobody would owe anybody anything. Imagine if some digital vigilante wiped out Microsoft's database of keys, maybe like an inside job... all installs everywhere would simply be invalidated in an instant :) Now *that* would be a strong and immediate demonstration of both how the whole "activation" thing and DRM are wrong.

Man can dream...

Re:"Fight club scenario?"

[marcello_dl]

But I guess they already know WGA and DRM are wrong... for the consumer. Remember this outage cost much more to the consumer than they cost to them, at least until people begin considering the painless alternatives.

Re:"Fight club scenario?"

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Err no its not. Thats like wiping out every social security number, watching the social safety net system collapse, and saying "SEE SOCIAL SAFETY DOESNT WORK AND IS WRONG." Or beating up your mailman, not getting mail, and saying "SEE, THE POSTAL SERVICE OUT HERE SUCKS." What, you couldn't come up with a car analogy worse than those?

Re:"Fight club scenario?"

[Bearhouse]

Do you mean 'wrong' as in 'immoral', or 'wrong' as in 'does not work'?

Personally, I think it's both.

Like many people here, (I imagine), I change hardware frequently, and am also cursed with being my neighbours', friends', childrens' software and hardware support. So I get this 'activation' bs regularly. Have you ever tried fixing a system that was delivered with a 'recovery' CD, that tries to access some (corrupt) partition etc...of course, no 'original' installation CDs

How long before you cut your losses and install from one of your 'corp.' CDs, or - if it's not in the family - download some streamlined thing from isohunt? Believe me, its 10x quicker than going the ms way. Shit, it's not even as if they or I did not BUY the software in the first place... Anybody want a load of VALID ms serials - you can have 'em...

The real problem is that 'activation' punishes the honest user, whilst doing little or nothing to stop the pirates... /end rant.

good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

The masses need to get hurt before they come to the conclusion that giving full control over your PC to a commercial entity is not a good idea.

lets hope it lasts a few more weeks or so.

Inevitable - look it up in the dictionary

[Torodung]

To all those people who say "Nothing can go wrong with the system" and "I've never had a problem with activation."

This (redundant link) is what can go wrong, and it was only a matter of time. There is no such thing as an unsinkable ship. I believe in Murphy's Law, so long as you add the word "eventually" to the end of it.

--
Toro

The bigger problem for Microsoft...

[Anonymous Coward]

is that they're calling the people that sell their software thieves. They are biting the hands that feed them. One of our customers bought a copy at Fry's, and when they called Microsoft about the problem, Microsoft accused Fry's of selling pirated software. Accusing the people that make money for you is a good way to kill a business.

The whole concept if flawed

[puck01]

This whole concept of authentication and WGA is flawed. It adds too many points of failure that in the end hurts legitimate users. Why should we be punished for MS's piracy problems.

For me it started with XP. Since I can no longer interchange parts in and out of my computer without worrying about setting off the authentication, I've worked hard to get my myself and my family off Windows. I'm the computer dork in the family and if I can't trouble shoot stuff without worrying about this kind of stuff it sort of kills the fun in building your own machines.

I'm not surprised this is happening and I won't be surprised when this stuff continues to happen in the future. Please get rid of these awful 'features' Microsoft

Re:whoops

[Anonymous Coward]

you should be fired if you made the decision to use commodity hardware and software.

So the admins at google & youtube should be fired? More and more companies are realizing that commodity hardware can be just as reliable as the overpriced stuff (in certain senarios).

Project Mayhem

[no_pets]

The Data Retention committee of Project Mayhem is working on this - but you didn't hear that from me.

Re:Project Mayhem

[WPIDalamar]

There is no project mayhem.

eggs in one basket

[SolusSD]

monoculture == dangerous!!

Phil Liu has workaround already

[Torodung]

Phil Liu details a workaround here, third post down.

Please go to www.microsoft.com/genuine and click VALIDATE WINDOWS to resolve this issue immediately.

Additionally, I know you all are looking for an explanation/root-cause. I will get that ASAP. We are aware it is a server-side issue - the cause is unknown at this current time. Best of luck to all you Vista users.

--
Toro

switch to LGA?

[atamyrat]

Damn it, it is broken?! I want to benefit from this Advantage program! They should open source WGA. Bugs would be fixed immediately by volunteers, so we can enjoy it without problems!
I'm switching to Linux Genuine Advantage(TM), guys. It is better and open-source!

Sysadmins! Go to work!

[erroneus]

Turn on all the machines! Log in! Get those machines invalidated as quickly as possible.

Repay the compliment

[jeevesbond]

Microsoft frequently shill online forums, they're even attacking the venerable ISO! From this Groklaw article:

And if it were me, I'd want to know if there is any Microsoft shadow in the background. Someone placed a threatening comment on Groklaw the other day, saying someday the "darkness" behind PJ would be revealed, and to "sleep well", and because of the threatening tone, I checked the logs and the comment appears to have come from an ad agency that does a lot of work for Microsoft. So I am wondering about things I didn't think about before. I remember what happened to an innocent man's reputation in the Massachusetts ODF affair.

So, this would seem like the ideal time to feed them some of their own medicine. Get over to the WGA forums and do some pro GNU+Linux astroturfing. Here was my message:

I came here not because I have a problem but because the mainstream media is starting to pick up on this issue, I suspect that pressure on MS to fix the problem will tremendously increase once this hits a few news/social networking sites.

The reason I'm not having any issues? I use Ubuntu and have the pleasure of knowing my OS and computer are owned by me. Maybe a few people here should give it a try: you never know, it might work! If it doesn't, all you've wasted are a couple of hours when you couldn't use Vista anyway.

Either way, I hope these problems get fixed for you guys soon.

As long as you're polite and make a point it can only help the adoption of Free software. Show these people that we're not zealots and offer them a way out of the WGA doldrums! :)

Microsoft fanboi

[ctid]

JohninTN's contribution to that forum is just funny. He seems to think that people should just "calm down" when the functionality that they have paid (rather a lot of money) for suddenly doesn't work because of some MS boneheadedness. His attitude in this thread is quite amazing, in my opinion.

"Safety critical"

[tepples]

Google and Youtube are hardly what I would call mission critical, unless we're talking strictly economics. I'm talking about hospitals, banks, air traffic control, etc. Things that can have a real effect on one's life. It appears that the term you're looking for is "safety critical", not "mission critical". Not all missions involve situations that present a clear and present danger to human safety.

Alternative workaround

[symbolset]

Available here.

true story

[Kristoph]

I actually had this happen to me:

- A Vista installation at a company I work with 'invalidated'.
- I called Microsoft.
- A person named Josh, who had quite an Indian accent as well as a speech impediment answered and after MUCH effort I provided the information required. (Please note I have the greatest respect for people of Indian decent as well as people with speech impediments but you can, I am sure, appreciate how this makes communication difficult.)
- A few minutes later he came back on and said that 'Microsoft is currently having computer problem' and please can I call back later.

In fairness, 2 days later the machine automatically revalidated but the whole thing was rather comedic.

]{

Aren't?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Aren't these servers dependent on availability of the Skype protocol? :-)

Re:Aren't?

[sumdumass]

It wasn't the Skype systems going down that caused this. The WGA servers failed themselves in their check for legitimacy and no one installed a legal copy so after a certain period of time, the WGA software shut the Internet connections off to get their attention and force Microsoft to buy a legit copy again.

Proof the piracy has the 'genuine advantage'

[Anonymous Coward]

I never install copy protected software, since I feel that it validates my right to use the software that I have paid for.
If i was buying the software on a lease/maintenance agreement, things might be different, but Windows is VERY expensive, and rather poor quality. I know of no other server OS that needs frequent reboots to correct weird slowdowns, and strange resource leaks.
I am just glad that I switched to Linux when Microsoft went down the product activation route with Windows XP. They cleary think that their customers are criminals, and i'm sure most of their customers have a similar opinion of Microsoft for delivering substandard products and exercising criminally monopolistic practices.
Good ridance Microsoft. I don't miss you.

I really love these features

[malraid]

I really love these "features" that prevent users from using their computers. I can't remember how many times I had to troubleshoot licensing problems in NetWare. Windows NT and 2000 used to be quite trouble free regarding this kind of crap. But now with WGA I'm making money off copy protection again. Right now I'm migrating a server from Windows 2000 to Linux for a client for that very reason. Thanks for giving me business, Microsoft.

Switch

[dreyergustav]

This doesn't seem to affect my Ubuntu installation and my iBook is also unaffected.

Re:Between this and their slow-ass update servers

[SplatMan_DK]

Just imagine if all those license fees, the cost of downtime for malware attacks, the cost of license following, the cost of unnecessary servers due to lack of scalability, etc., ad nauseum, had been diverted to open source development. Microsoft would be out of business now. You have a very good point indeed - put it probably proves something other than what you expected.

Commercial software companies like Microsoft have spent a lot more resources on shaping their products into finished stand-alone packages that actually WORK... without the requiring the user to read five or six 800-pages O'Reiley books about advanced protocols or client/server APIs. So precisely because these companies HAVE spent their license fees on development that appeals to their customers, they are dominating the marketplace. And precisely because F/OSS development is (was) not driven by the needs of end-customers and consumers, the products were too advanced to use, understand, install, upgrade, etc.

Don't get me wrong here - I am a big F/OSS fan. But please observe that all the truly successfully F/OSS products nowadays are backed by big companies with commercial interests in them. Most (if not all) Linux distros that are appealing to normal end-users are from big companies with a lot of cash. And many (many, like in MANY!) non-OS products in the F/OSS category are being used commercially and is backed by companies with commercial interests in them (MySQL is its own company - HP, IBM, Novell, Sun contributes to a lot of end-user stuff both with development and cash).

Commercial software and license fees are not evil. Only their terms of use *CAN* be "evil" or at least "non-free" (as in "non-freedom).

And we would certainly not mind making Bill the richest guy in the world if he had just delivered his software with free (as in "freedom", NOT as in "beer") licenses - right?

:-)

- Jesper

Thank god for The Pirate Bay.

[flyingfsck]

Hmm, it also wasted at least two hours of my time when I tried to install a new system and activation would not work. I traced through countless routers before I finally figured that it must Microsoft that is a fault and not our firewalls - so I installed a hack. Thank god for The Pirate Bay...

We are only a few years away from

[gelfling]

A court agreeing with Microsoft that you do not own your own computer you merely license it.

WGA doesn't have a problem...

[Spy der Mann]

WGA *IS* the problem.

Retaining one's freedom has no "workaround".

[jbn-o]

Framing this issue around inconvenience misses the more important underlying point. Your freedom to control your stuff matters. This incident is a harbinger of bad things; ostensibly Microsoft is trying to prevent illicit use yet chiefly adversely affects legal users. A system which denies users the freedom to control their data, their computer, and (as more of their life is conducted on their computer) their lives.

National Security Risk

[SeaFox]

Isn't it interesting that the government doesn't consider systems like WGA a threat to national security?

The dangers of software monoculture are well known, now combine that with an authentication system the government has no control over. Once the entire Windows desktop marketshare (+90% of all desktops) is using a Windows OS featuring WGA, what's to stop criminals and terrorists from capturing the datacenters that house these servers and holding a major factor in world finance hostage?

Re:National Security Risk

[Anonymous Coward]

Close. Now try rephrasing it with a slightly different logic.

Suppose the government (US and allies) wants to keep, or be able to achieve when needed, control of people computers, say being able to put spyware, get access to user files, shut down machines etc, what requirements would the system have to allow this?

1: It needs to be produced by a single company with strong ties to the government(s).

2: It must employ methods to allow remote access of user files and system resources.

3: It must be closed source, and people exposed to the source code must be closely monitored.

4: It must be as widely used as possible, in order to discourage the use of alternatives. Giving it away installed on new PCs by default and closing one or both eyes when dealing with piracy will help to spread it.

On other words, Windows fits perfectly the requirements of the most obiquitous system of global public surveillance ever conceived.

Now back to your post, WGA isn't considered a threat to national security because WGA is a brick of the national security building.

WGA can disable your running system?

[tji]

I didn't realize WGA did periodic (constant?) checks on the system validity. I thought it was just a one-time check at installation (like entering the product ID on Win2K). That's hilarious that you can pay MS hundreds of dollar for the software, only to have it crippled when they screw up and accuse you of being a thief.

Why do people use that crap?

Re:No compiler needed

[Nullav]

It's good that you haven't needed to compile a program because Windows doesn't come with a compiler.

A person who won't compile a program has no advantage over a person who can't.

By that logic, someone with Ubuntu can't compile anything, because it doesn't come with a compiler. All someone on Windows needs to do is install MinGW/Cygwin. Hell, you could just install an IDE like Eclipse (and the required plug-ins)/Codeblocks/VC++ and be done with it there.

Re:No compiler needed

[ivan256]

By that logic, someone with Ubuntu can't compile anything, because it doesn't come with a compiler.

Except that it does.

Re:Skype to Blame.

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to use my guaranteed "+5, insightful" Slashdot form. I'm probably going to lose karma points blah blah Micro$oft blah blah blah lunix is better blah ideas want to be free. In my day blah blah vacuum tube blah 12 bits-per-second blah VAX blah tape drive.

Re:WGA Newspeak

[X0563511]

The sad thing is swapping two words around would still sound the same, but actually make sense!

"Genuine Windows Advantage" makes a hell of a lot more sense. But then that hurts your ego-complex.

Windows this. Windows that. Microsoft this. DAMN! Arrogant sons-a-bitches they are! They even go so far as to massacre proper structure of "Genuine Windows" advantage.

Re:No compiler needed

[Blakey Rat]

The compiler doesn't come on the disk, but it is free. Anybody running a Windows OS can install any of the "Express" IDE/compilers on their computer for free. Anything from C++ to VisualBasic to SQL Server.

Re:No compiler needed

[ivan256]

Except that it does. Just because some idiot on a forum couldn't figure out how to check the box at installation time to have it installed doesn't mean it doesn't have one. Windows ships with plenty of things that aren't installed by default too.

Quick update now

[pizpot]

Quick everybody, update your pirate installs now while they have WGA secretly turned off.

"Gee sir, its been running bug free for weeks. Oh yeah, turn it back on..."

Oh boy

[kc2keo]

Thats a Genuine Disadvantage.