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Staged Hack Causes Generator to Self-Destruct

An anonymous reader writes "It has been revealed that in a U.S. Department of Homeland Security exercise codenamed 'Aurora' conducted in March of this year, researchers were able to cause a power generator to self-destruct remotely via a hack which changed the operating cycle of the generator. 'Government sources said changes are being made to both computer software and physical hardware to protect power generating equipment. And the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said it is conducting inspections to ensure all nuclear plants have made the fix. Industry experts also said the experiment shows large electric systems are vulnerable in ways not previously demonstrated.'"

258 comments

  1. I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    One time I put my car into reverse while traveling 70 mph on the freeway. It was a very exciting learning experience.

    1. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you are talking about a very very old car, you could not have put it in reverse while driving forward. The reverse gear is mechanically blocked to prevent exactly the kind of destructive event that you're hinting at.

    2. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BS.

      That doesn't work. The solenoid in an automatic transmission won't engage in those conditions. And even if you have a manual with synchros on the reverse shaft, you'll never get them to mesh.

      FAIL

    3. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I think he might have been talking about a bus. And you missed it.

    4. Re:I've seen this before. by johnsie · · Score: 0

      Lol, I'd be glad if I missed a bus with a driver like that :-)

    5. Re:I've seen this before. by frog51 · · Score: 1
      It is very easy to do, although scary if you get it wrong. Here's how:

      Drive along fast

      Depress clutch

      Select neutral

      wait a few seconds

      Push gear lever into reverse - it may take a little more push than usual

      Rev engine

      Dump clutch

      Listen to the squealing from those tortured tyres - oh yes!

    6. Re:I've seen this before. by Nenya247 · · Score: 0

      Or the tinkling noise of your gearbox bouncing along the road? You would have stripped off your synchromesh pretty quick forcing it in anyway.

    7. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't try that at home, kids.

      And when you are selecting gears at speed, remember, "R" does not stand for "Race".

        -old guy

    8. Re:I've seen this before. by profplump · · Score: 1

      BS on your BS. I'm willing to believe that on newer cars this is true, but having done it myself I can tell you that the transmission in an '82 Dodge pickup has no such protection system.

      I accidentally shifted in to reverse once when I bumped the shift lever while turning -- the spring on the control lever was weak and it didn't always lock into position. When the lever was moved to reverse, it most definitely reversed the transmission. Tire squeal, rapid deceleration, the whole bit. But only for about 2 seconds; after that the engine died and the transmission disengaged.

      UNFAIL

    9. Re:I've seen this before. by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Even rolling forward slowly on an '82 Mercury Lynx I could not get mine to jam into reverse, and I tried with a fair amount of force.

      "Reverse gear is handled by a small idler gear (purple). At all times, the blue reverse gear in this diagram is turning in a direction opposite to all of the other blue gears. Therefore, it would be impossible to throw the transmission into reverse while the car is moving forward -- the dog teeth would never engage. However, they will make a lot of noise!" -- Tranmission

      I suspect if people get their cars to stall when jamming the shifter into reverse while rolling forward it's because they pop the clutch suddenly after hearing the grinding crunching noises.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    10. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no synchromesh on reverse. You don't need it as typically you're stopped when trying to select reverse gear.

    11. Re:I've seen this before. by Ajehals · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I mangled a gear change coming back on a stretch of motorway at about 4am, this was maybe 6 months after passing my test, I'm not entirely sure what I did but it was with a change from 4th to first or 4th to reverse (and yes this was a fairly old car). I must say it was fairly spectacular, the smell of burning clutch, the sparks, the rapid deceleration. But most interestingly when I finally got the car to stop, I found that the clutch was stuck/fused, and I couldn't start the engine at all, 20 minutes later and I had it started, and moving in second gear at about 20Mph, all the way back home @50 Miles (and yes off the motorway.). Next day, I found that everything worked beautifully, and whereas previously the clutch used to slip quite a bit, had regained a decent bite.

      Needless to say it didn't pass its next MOT, but then a £250 C Reg Ford Sierra is something you can drive for a year and then replace.

    12. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit, on a manual transmission the reverse gear isn't synchronized and absolutely will not engage if the vehicle is moving forward with any speed. It's completely impossible because the gears would be turning in opposite directions.

    13. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pedantic: In order for gears to mesh, they must be spinning in opposite directions.

    14. Re:I've seen this before. by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Yes you can definitely do it on older cars. Back in the 70's a mate of mine put an automatic 69 Holden Monaro into reverse at ~35mph, same symptoms plus some extreme fishtailing. As a passenger I didn't know what the fuck was going on....

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    15. Re:I've seen this before. by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I've never seriously tried at high speed, but I can certainly slot my manual-transmission car (1989, so it's not THAT old) into reverse at parking-lot forward speeds with no problems. At high speeds the gears don't mesh, but that's why the GP suggested putting the car in neutral then waiting a few seconds with the clutch in - the idler cog stops eventually due to friction, halving the speed of its teeth relative to the reverse gear and letting it mesh easier. It'll still be noisy and probably damaging though. :/

      Regardless, if someone could put my car into reverse via the internet while I'm driving it (hell, at ANY time) I'd be, as Humperdink would put it, 'very put out'.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    16. Re:I've seen this before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was tested on mythbusters. Newer cars have safeties to prevent damage.

  2. this should not be possible by arabagast · · Score: 4, Insightful

    because the automation system controlling the infrastructure is not connected to a public network, like say, the internet - right ?
    If it is, then someone should probably do some quick patching asap.

    --
    Doolittle : ...What is your one purpose in life?
    Bomb no.20 : To explode of course.
    1. Re:this should not be possible by dropadrop · · Score: 1

      The network SHOULD not be connected to the internet, but of course this is not always the case.

    2. Re:this should not be possible by drgonzo59 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You see they want remote control and monitoring but they also don't want to be on the Internet. They would have to build their own network, unless they are NSA, FBI or AT&T they cannot do that easily. Even then, once there is any remote control, the attacker doesn't have to jump over the fence of the power station, they have a choice to break one window of the building where the point of remote control is.

    3. Re:this should not be possible by Dr.+Smoove · · Score: 1

      No kidding, this type of shit should be on its own infrastructure. The whole thing should be mapped so that there is no point at which things can be routed to a public network.

      --
      "If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind."
    4. Re:this should not be possible by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      No. I remember seeing a report sometime during the big blackout that there were control systems hooked to the public Internet running Windows 3.1 with WinSock installed.

    5. Re:this should not be possible by arabagast · · Score: 1

      hence the line about patching asap - preferably with a wire cutter, just for dramatic effect :)
      seriously, these computers should never be connected to the a public network. If this must be done, possibly for remote monitoring, it could be done with hardware such as this: Network diode. It's not infallible, but it's an extra layer of security on top of firewalls and such.

      --
      Doolittle : ...What is your one purpose in life?
      Bomb no.20 : To explode of course.
    6. Re:this should not be possible by LehiNephi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is. It has to be. It would be ideal if you could run isolated networks, but it's impractical. Let's say you run a facility with some gas turbine generators, as in this example. The generator package has to communicate with the control system. The control system has to communicate with the "business" network (for record-keeping, among other reasons), and the business network has to be connected to the internet. There are lots of things you can do to help secure the various levels of the network, e.g. firewalls, vLANs, packet filtering and inspection, intrusion detection and response, etc., but there still is a data path going all the way out from the lowest levels out to the "real world".

      (Our company has also been working with Idaho National Labs on this exact issue, can you tell? The government is taking it pretty seriously)

      There are a few problems. For example, there's a lot of old control gear out there, and if it talks ethernet, it assumes that anything it receives is legitimate. Also, the equipment involved is produced in small enough quantities that there can't be a great deal of effort expended on security features. It's not like Windows, where millions and millions of copies are sold, and lots of people actively look for holes.

      --
      Help find a cure for cancer. Join the [H]orde
    7. Re:this should not be possible by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      because the automation system controlling the infrastructure is not connected to a public network, like say, the internet - right ?

      You know, the internet isn't the only network out there. The telephone system is another, with wetware acting as clients and servers. For example:

      JOE (technician): *rrring*.. hello?
      JACK (mischievous social engineer): Hey Joe, this is Terry at central control
      JOE: Hi Terry, what can I do for you?
      JACK: I need you to offset the timing on the third generator coil by 20% please.
      JOE: Uh? 20%? That sounds dangerous.
      JACK: It's urgent! the power-grid is not stable, if you don't do this, we'll have New York in the dark!
      JOE: erh.. I really need to talk to my supervisor for this. Who did you say you were?
      JACK: I've already talked to your supervisor. John's gonna be really pissed off if you don't do this!
      JOE: Well ok then. Here goes...
      **KABOOM**

      See? no need for any internet, wetware can be hacked too.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    8. Re:this should not be possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, if only the planes during 9/11 weren't connected to a public network, like the internet...

      Oh, wait. They weren't.

      People can still weasle their way in, even if it isn't public-network accesible.

    9. Re:this should not be possible by SQLGuru · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone wonder why they've been researching Ethernet over Powerlines? They already have the cables deployed all over the place, they just need to get the data flowing along with all of the other electrons.

      Layne

    10. Re:this should not be possible by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if only the planes during 9/11 weren't connected to a public network, like the internet... Oh, wait. They weren't.

      Yes they were. If you ever placed a 20$/min phone call from a plane, you would know.

      But I digress, telephones obviously didn't cause the planes to crash.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    11. Re:this should not be possible by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      It seems changes should be manageable on-site, while offsite monitoring should be done by dumps.

      i.e. You could burn discs with the necessary logs/data, you could set up a send-only piece of hardware, etc.

      --
      34486853790
      Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
    12. Re:this should not be possible by arivanov · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IIRC, The US network is connected in places or separated by weak bastion hosts. If you do not remember the case when Slammer caused blackouts in the North East, some of us do.

      Even if the USA network was not connected, the control systems themselves use laughable authentication (if any). Most other networks are similar. They have been built by control automation engineers whose knowledge of networking and security is somewhere between laughing stock and none. This is valid for the rest of the world, not just the USA.

      I am surprised the control automation allows setting parameters which are outside permitted ranges. This is something control and automation people usually get right. I remember my dad spending months on numerical models of the grid to compile sets of allowed parameters all of which ended being hardcoded in hardware and software. Nothing was left to be adjusted outside these ranges (this was not in the USA though).

      One really worrying bit is that this is not USA limited. The same automation software and hardware is used in the UK and quite a few other countries.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    13. Re:this should not be possible by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      If you mean BPL, it has been rolled out in a few rural areas of the US. I know Cinergy has a lot of BPL customers around Cincinatti.

      I hoping it come to southern Indiana soon. Fast up and down.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    14. Re:this should not be possible by Mike89 · · Score: 1

      Anyone wonder why they've been researching Ethernet over Powerlines? They already have the cables deployed all over the place, they just need to get the data flowing along with all of the other electrons.
      Incorrect. Most high-voltage runs are accompanied by (at least some) fibre optic cable. At least, this is true in Australia (my father works for one of the larger transmission companies here).

      I believe it's also true in the US because I read somewhere the power companies were onselling this to ISPs?
    15. Re:this should not be possible by sholden · · Score: 1

      Surely you can have a one way data path from the control system to the "business" network. It means the "business" network only gets the data it is given and can't make real time queries, and if some data it doesn't have is required the control system will need to be updated to send that too.

      There's no need to plug in an ethernet connection (and the associated exposed network stack), a serial cable on which the data is sent (which does not read commands) should do.

      Of course it's a hassle and more costly than just plugging in an ethernet cable. For a power plant that seems worthwhile though... they can make a very big boom... and going offline is very costly to the surrounding people/businesses/farm animals.

    16. Re:this should not be possible by guruevi · · Score: 1, Informative

      Well, if there is an established procedure for offsetting timings on any coil (as in chain of command), 'Terry' should call your supervisor, not you and then when you (technician) say it is dangerous, there should be a call back to 'Terry' and his supervisor.

      Working in dangerous or otherwise critical environments is all about having established procedures mimicing the way public key infrastructures work. Both public (technicians calling each other) and private (supervisors calling each other) keys (commands) should match and be verified on both sides before anything is executed.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    17. Re:this should not be possible by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

      "It is. It has to be. It would be ideal if you could run isolated networks, but it's impractical. Let's say you run a facility with some gas turbine generators, as in this example. The generator package has to communicate with the control system."

      Sure.

      "The control system has to communicate with the "business" network (for record-keeping, among other reasons),"

      What? Why? Why? Why?

      What's so darn important that it requires instantaneous communication? Why can't it just gather summaries in, you know, overnight batch runs or something, and write them on media that can be hand-carried to the business system?

    18. Re:this should not be possible by StickyWidget · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is possible. First, control systems are connected to a public network because the way electricity is traded among generators, transmission owners, and other members of the electric power community. They use the Internet as the common communications infrastructure for the business side, which gives orders to the production side (the generators). This is the way of the unregulated market, and it's starting to be run a lot like other industries. Because the production side is run by the business side, the connections between the two are inevitable, due to various benefits (lowered costs due to increased process intelligence, proactive maintenance, and a host of others).

      Second, quick patching on control systems is a no-no. These systems run for 24x7, and are running highly customized and tested software. If a patch exists, it likely isn't under warranty from the vendor. This means that if a patch is applied, the vendor is well within their rights not to support the system anymore. Also, these systems typically can't just be rebooted, they are running real-time calculation and monitoring to ensure the process variables stay within controlled range. Shutting them down is often tantamount to shutting down the plant, which costs a metric f%&k-ton of money if it stays down.

      Parent comment is not insightful, and certainly not intelligent, how about some corrective action Mods? Read the Blackout Report, it has perhaps the best explanation of how the power system function from top to bottom.

      ~Sticky

    19. Re:this should not be possible by Errtu76 · · Score: 1

      This sounds awfully familiar. Haven't you worked on the script for Hackers? I must say i'm a little disappointed you didn't mention Jack committing harikiri if Joe didn't cooperate.

    20. Re:this should not be possible by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      Correct, but your senario only takes out one generator. What the fine article talks about, from a DHS standpoint, is a coordinated attack, set to go off everywhere at the same time. Much chaos would ensue...

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    21. Re:this should not be possible by kent_eh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Our company has all our generators (and many other things) remotely controlled, and none of those systems are available to the public internet. We have it all captive on our own infrastructure.
      The local power utility ( I know several of their techs who work on the telemetry gear) also has a remote control system which in entirely on their own infrastructure, and has no interconnection with any system that is accessible from a public network.
      It may not be the absolutely cheapest way to do things, but it's also a lot more secure.
      What's the cost of this sort of failure compared to doing it "right" in the first place?

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    22. Re:this should not be possible by Phil-14 · · Score: 1

      If the public power system weren't heavily networked, it would not be possible to hook the California power system's consumers (and their electric cars) to hydroelectric plants in Washington State, or Quebec.

      And even if it weren't connected to the public internet, it would still be connected to _an_ internet that could be hacked...

      It's too late for us to just Stop Using The Networks Because They Aren't Secure Enough, without massive expense. We're going to have to make them more secure the hard way.

      --
      (currently testing something about signatures here)
    23. Re:this should not be possible by e4g4 · · Score: 1

      But how are they supposed to outsource maintenance and monitoring jobs overseas if critical infrastructure controls aren't connected to the internet :P?

      --
      The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
    24. Re:this should not be possible by Sqweegee · · Score: 1

      There is absolutely no need to have full control of any power generating system connected to the internet. It's actually quite easy to have isolated systems even on the same generator that provide remote control and monitoring but do not allow bypassing or modifications of control algorithms or any critical safety mechanisms.

      I do see two potential problems though. 1. It costs slightly more to add a few extra non-computerized and isolated controls than to rely on one system to do it all, and someone might try to save a few bucks. 2. I've seen some horrible designs for equipment that somehow get past all quality and safety testing despite major flaws in many respects.

      Finally it was a "staged" hack with dramatic news making results... you can stage whatever you want, doesn't mean it's reality.

    25. Re:this should not be possible by TigerNut · · Score: 1

      If electricity is a commodity to be traded then the transactions should be encrypted the way bank transactions are, with all due attention paid to the security of the information and authentication of the originating system for each order. Additionally, the response of an individual generator to a given control input should still not be able to circumvent the safety system such that the power system becomes unstable to the point of overloading the generator.

      --

      Less is more.

    26. Re:this should not be possible by phoenixwade · · Score: 1

      What's so darn important that it requires instantaneous communication? Why can't it just gather summaries in, you know, overnight batch runs or something, and write them on media that can be hand-carried to the business system? It's not really that, it's digital control to make (in theory) the most efficient use of the generating facilities. Interconnecting all the machines isn't really the issue, you could, for example, build an intermediary server that both the control machine and the business network have access to, without resorting to sneakernetting the data.

      The problem is in allowing any remote control of the system, which the utility wants to happen so that a central facility can control any generator. Here, we have four power generation facilities, all of which are managed from a central control at the utilities main office downtown. They choose to use the internet to make those connections, because it's MUCH cheaper than stringing dedicated data lines from the generation plants to the central office. The consultants working on the initial system were 100% sure that the data paths were secure, and each consultant (and their IT department) have been dealing with security issues ever since. The prefernce is to bandage the problem (secure the systems, secure the communications, etceteras) rather than using physical security on the data path itself. And there is some logic behind this, redundancy is far more important than security, and the current system offers a lot of redundancy....

      --
      A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    27. Re:this should not be possible by arminw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      .....has to communicate .....

      Really, has to? Electric systems have been around since the days of Edison and worked just fine without networks, specifically the Internet. Sacrificing security for convenience is a bad idea that Microsoft has amply demonstrated. Why can a power plant not be controlled locally, by a human operator, like they were in the past. Remote reading is a lot different than remote control. Much of this remote control pressure comes from bean counters in management. They want to eliminate the cost of hiring workers wherever possible.

      Normally, each generator, transformer and other equipment has safety devices that shut the machine down BEFORE any damage happens. Whatever happened to those? Do they depend on computers for that safety function now, that a simple relay or circuit breaker used to provide? If the setup in that experiment corresponds to the way power systems are run today, perhaps it's time to take a step into the past.

      --
      All theory is gray
    28. Re:this should not be possible by greed · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the Wonderful World of de-regulation and energy market competition....

      Ontario deals with by-the-minute electricity rates. You can see http://www.theimo.com/imoweb/siteShared/demand_price.asp?sid=ic">some of the graphs from the market operator; the lower one shows hourly averaged prices. (As of this writing, demand is lower than predicted, so prices are much lower than predicted. Electricity is free in Ontario if demand drops below the output of the nuclear plants.)

      Not that I'm approving of connecting the generators directly to the business network. Having the generators output statistics via a write-only line (optically isolated by preference, either by using fibre optics or a good old fashioned opto-coupler) to a machine that's dedicated to collecting the information from the nodes at the plant and firing THAT off over a VPN to the business office.

      TCP/IP is too cheap and simple these days, so it gets plumbed in everywhere. Some things shouldn't have full two-way communications, though; and maybe some older tech, like 2-wire serial, (GND and TX) would be better. (Can't have handshake--that's, at some level, communications back the other way.)

    29. Re:this should not be possible by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....**KABOOM**......

      Except that in the past at least, generators and other equipment had specific hardware devices, such as over current, overspeed and other protections that shut the machine off BEFORE it could go "KABOOM". Whatever happened to those? Do they rely on computers and software for that now? So in your scenario, the generator would be safely shut down before all that stuff was computerized.

      --
      All theory is gray
    30. Re:this should not be possible by t0rkm3 · · Score: 1

      True of at least some companies. I helped set up a SONET network for Calpine at that is precisely the infrastructure used.

    31. Re:this should not be possible by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      That was what I was going to suggest. A two line signal+ground one way serial cable.
      Heck use an optical isolator to keep the electrically isolated for surge protection.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    32. Re:this should not be possible by phoenixwade · · Score: 1

      If the public power system weren't heavily networked, it would not be possible to hook the California power system's consumers (and their electric cars) to hydroelectric plants in Washington State, or Quebec.

      And even if it weren't connected to the public internet, it would still be connected to _an_ internet that could be hacked...

      It's too late for us to just Stop Using The Networks Because They Aren't Secure Enough, without massive expense. We're going to have to make them more secure the hard way. There is a difference between the power distribution system , and networking the generator control systems , the first is required to accomplish what you refer to here, the second is not. The systems need to respond to demands for power,but I think that can be accomplished without running through the internet. Record keeping and data transfer between facilities is required to keep the accounting straight between all the power companies, but you don't have to hook the controllers into that loop.

      --
      A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    33. Re:this should not be possible by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....Working in dangerous or otherwise critical environments.....

      It used to be that all equipment was designed with specific hardware protection devices that would also protect against operator errors. If they use computers and software for that now, it is a step backwards IMHO. Adjusting the current or whatever to a dangerous value should not be possible. If it does happen, the machine should shut down, not self-destruct. Something sounds very fishy to me in this whole article.

      --
      All theory is gray
    34. Re:this should not be possible by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 1

      If people would only take a couple minutes to think about it, the explanation would be obvious. After all, there was no electricity distribution before the Internet existed.

      --
      No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
    35. Re:this should not be possible by russotto · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem is in allowing any remote control of the system, which the utility wants to happen so that a central facility can control any generator. Here, we have four power generation facilities, all of which are managed from a central control at the utilities main office downtown. They choose to use the internet to make those connections, because it's MUCH cheaper than stringing dedicated data lines from the generation plants to the central office.
      I'm pretty sure that's a false dilemma. Doesn't the phone company still lease connections through it's own network (e.g. frame relay)? Much more expensive than the Internet, but much cheaper than a physical line, and certainly much more secure than the Internet.
    36. Re:this should not be possible by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The control system has to communicate with the "business" network (for record-keeping, among other reasons)

      Use Sneakernet, not Ethernet.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    37. Re:this should not be possible by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      What should not exist is any way for hardware to unintentionally self destruct via the software. That's a bug. Definitely a bug that should be fixed. Yeah, bugs are closely related to insecurity. But they shouldn't always be turned into a security issue. This sort of problem could be triggered by accident, no need to turn it into a witch hunt.

      Of hardware, there was the infamous Therac 25, an x-ray machine. They saved money by removing some failsafe hardware intended to limit the device to safe levels, and let the software handle that. But the software sometimes got it wrong, commanding the device to emit far too much radiation, and some patients died as a result. I've heard of CPUs that can be destroyed by software routines that intensively exercise one small part of the CPU in such a way that part will melt or burn before the built in monitoring detects the problem (because the rest of the CPU is still cool enough) and shuts things down. There was the old Commodore 64 disk drive which could be commanded to bang the head against some internal part, at the least knocking the drive permanently out of alignment. And there was allegedly some game that used this flaw in a copy protection routine to punish people for copying. Even worse were the catastrophic failure cases that occurred if the user forgot to do something. Specifically, I'm thinking of old hard disks that had to be "parked" by means of a user issued command, before moving the machine anywhere. Otherwise, goodbye data!

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    38. Re:this should not be possible by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd guess most people here have never read about power grid synchronization. Unless your power grid is DC isolated, it shares data telemetry data with other systems in the grid. Any one of these systems getting hacked can put the entire network at risk. There are many ways to damage a generator if you understand what causes it to trip from the system. Delaying the disconnect from the power grid, for even a short amount of time can cause substantial damage.

      http://groups.google.com/group/alt.engineering.electrical/browse_thread/thread/c6a2399745b5413a/dcdf9906b70b85b1%23dcdf9906b70b85b1
      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=power+grid+synchronization+failure&btnG=Search
    39. Re:this should not be possible by budgenator · · Score: 1

      How are they going to get automatic critical updates into the computer? They designed the nuclear generators to autopilot while the computers reboot to install, it was all proven safe at Chernobyl.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    40. Re:this should not be possible by Phil-14 · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between the power distribution system , and networking the generator control systems , the first is required to accomplish what you refer to here, the second is not.

      Not really. If you're going to have multiple generators connecting to the same power distribution system, <em>generally</em> you're going to want to keep them synchronized to the same frequency as the power distribution system itself runs at.

      Heck, they all have to be in phase as well.

      Now there are some generator types that can automatically produce power of the correct phase when connected to a power grid, but not all power plant generators are of this type. I think there are scaling problems involved.

      Now you could give the power generators a private network of their own, but if you don't secure the individual machines connected to it as well then all you've done is made a single point of failure for all the machines on the network.

      --
      (currently testing something about signatures here)
    41. Re:this should not be possible by LeRandy · · Score: 3, Informative

      At least here in the UK, Telemetry and control signals are carried over the National Grid itself, nowadays using an optic fibre that runs alongside the earth wire. Case Study.

      I see no reason why all telemetry and control signals should not be carried in narrow- or broadband communications along the power infrastructure itself, and then restricted to a physically separate infrastructure when being processed. Data links to business systems can be provided using a one-way connection (Serial or optical). If you then want to have a real-time billing system, you can join all the business networks up, either along the same fibre-way (atop the pylons), or through the olde-fashioned interweb.

      For telemetry, TCP/IP may often be your worst choice, since it has a high latency. If you want to protect your infrastructure from lightning strikes, you need to respond at the speed of light. Literally. Other control signals (demand etc.), may be able to wait a second or two, but you can't afford to risk the kind of packet loss you may receive if the teleco or ISP is having a bad day. So all the control stuff will need to be on multiple route redundant circuits anyway. Note I said circuits - you have to have whole circuits to yourself.

      TCP/IP may have been well designed for critical communications networks. But it sure as hell ain't designed for critical real-time communications. Ergo you have to have a dedicated infastructure, so there is no excuse for having any connection, even firewalled from t'internet to the power station control systems.

      If you really must share infrastructure, then for pete's sake, use the time-honoured TDM.

    42. Re:this should not be possible by legirons · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean they need to jump a motorcycle into the guard post from an adjacent building, break into the control centre, and run nmap on a terminal on the internal network?

    43. Re:this should not be possible by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 1
      Some background helps to understand this in the context of the electric power industry, and administration political power grabs. There are many companies involved in the chain from power generation to power coming out of your wall socket. These companies are not all anxious to upgrade from their existing levels of technology. This has a bearing as you'll see.

      The process starts at a power generating facility which is owned by some company. Power is delivered to transmission lines which are typically owned by another company. Along the route, power may be switched and routed and handed off between various companies. On the receiving end, power goes to a substation, which could be owned by another company, and finally gets delivered to you locally.

      At each stage along the way, each company typically has its own technologies for monitoring and control. Connecting data to and from each stage can be done in quite different and private ways. Generating plants may use SCADA, a standard for measurement and control, and it is best practice not to connect SCADA systems to the Internet. Instead, a lot of times, proprietary or limited comm links and protocols are used. Companies are loath to spend money to upgrade older systems to connect to newer technologies. Power industry management is often pretty conservative (ie cheap) regarding this.

      I think the DHS Aurora demo was concocted to run a scare; there is some ulterior motive behind it beside mere security against hacking. The media have portrayed the simulation in such a way that it's easy for the public to get a first impression it was an actual attack. Because the industry is not about to spend billions to upgrade its hardware, the demo will not change too much. But this little play did score points for DHS. My guess is Aurora's whole purpose was to provide ammunition for a hot administration salesman to run past Congress to scare it into providing more money for DHS. Drama: "Look, a generator blowed up! Yow!" Never mind it being only a simulation. Congress being as technologically illiterate as we know it to be, is likely fall for it. Yet another DHS power grab, as it were. Just watch for another budget line item to get inserted in the middle of the night.

    44. Re:this should not be possible by evilviper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They would have to build their own network, unless they are NSA, FBI or AT&T they cannot do that easily.

      What the hell is happening to /.? Has NOBODY here ever heard of a LEASED LINE?

      Call up Verizon or AT&T, tell them you want a T1 from point A to point B. You pay them a few dollars every month, and you have a direct, and fully-private connection from A to B.

      Public networks aren't the only way to communicate.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    45. Re:this should not be possible by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      because the automation system controlling the infrastructure is not connected to a public network, like say, the internet - right ?


      Just because its not connected to a "public" network doesn't mean that an attacker couldn't get access to the network at a vulnerable location. Sure, physical security on the infrastructure of a private network is an important part of the solution, but if there is no reason to provide a remote self-destruct function, then its a good idea to make sure that even if the network is compromised, it can't be used to self-destruct the generator. This is true whether or not it is accessible via a public network.

    46. Re:this should not be possible by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      Leased line networks are a security through obscurity measure that can contribute to poor security policies if used alone. Yes, they do reduce your exposure that the public internet gives, but are not a end all solution. A.) Is the telephone company really providing a hardware dedicated path with your leased line, or is it being muxed over other hardware where it is vulnerable to interception. B.) Is your leased line secure from someone digging up your line and intercepting your signal. At T1 can be pretty easy to find in a large bundle if it's the only high voltage pair. C.) Is your network secure from some jackass plugging in a wireless device to an ethernet jack. D.) It doesn't matter if the power generation station is secure if the control monitoring stations are not. As I've stated in a previous post, the power grid is very complex. A generator cannot respond instantly to changes in the grid, it is controlled by a mechanical process on one end. Fire, steam, water pressure cannot change instantly to the demands of a grid. If the generator can foresee a change occur it can spin up/down before it needs to. For example if a large generator is going to go offline for maintenance, the other generators on the grid can start to spin up a short time before power drop actually happens, reducing the amount of oscillation in the grid, which in turn reduces stress on the equipment. The power distribution network is very fragile on hot high demand days. Non malicious events can cause serious outages, lines overheating and burnings, transformers catching on fire, generator failure. A malicious agent with understanding of the grid could cause serious failure.

    47. Re:this should not be possible by kd5ujz · · Score: 1

      I was once a customer of an ISP that did Dialup over leased lines, so you could be connected all of the time ( well, most of the time). The line did not have dialtone, and was basicly an alarm circuit from your house, to the isp. Any DTMF would open the connection, but you had to set your modem to dial without dialtone. The line was ~$15/month plus $10 or whatever the ISP charged.

      --
      -William
      God is everything science has yet to explain.
    48. Re:this should not be possible by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      The control system has to communicate with the "business" network (for record-keeping, among other reasons)
      Not via wire it doesn't. Use tapes.

    49. Re:this should not be possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have worked opn a lot of building control systems, including integrating Generators, UPS, Transfer Switches, HVAC, Fire Alarm, and Security.
      These are almost always connected to the internet, nowadays.
      Most owners of these businesses would have a fit if it were suggested that should be connected to their business systems. (Usually, so would Sarbanes-Oxley)
      Most owners, after thinkning about it, also opt to not connect security to any other system, instead going for alarm bells, lights, and printouts at dedicated equipment in the security rooms/stations.
      The internet connection is usually for remote alarms and monitoring, often connected to pagers to get the poor slob responsible for fixing things out of bed. They usually have weak passwords, but is configured to allow only monitoring and discrete, hopefully well thought-out, limited actions (like changing the schedule so a system can operate off hours for a weekend board meeting).

      The controls for public utilities and the electric grid should something else entirely.

    50. Re:this should not be possible by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      Synchronization...he he...can you say BOOM!?

      My father works in startup and commissioning at powerplants and large industrial plants, and has for over 30 years. On a recent job, a piece of large rotating equipment needed to be brought on line, which meant synchronizing to the grid. Unfortunately, the computerized synchronization gear was down, so everyone had resigned themselved to a schedule delay. Dad suggested he gear be synchronized manualy, which was met with astonishment - not only had no one ever done it, they hadn't heard of anyone doing it. Dad volunteered, and aside from a bit of a pucker when the switch was thrown, no kaboom. People were amazed that it could even be done without automatic gear.

      Dad may be one of the few people left in the country who has the knowledge and the experience to do that manually with large equipment, and he is about to retire. If the computerized gear goes down in a big way, who is going to do it manually? I mean, Dad's got big balls, but synchronizing a 1250 MW steam turbien at a nuke plant? Don't think so.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    51. Re:this should not be possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data telemetry? What?

      I work on gas turbine power generators between 10 and 15 MWs. All you need to synchronize to a grid is the ability to speed up and slow down your generator and a way to see if the phases are in sync or not. This is done with a synchroscope.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchroscope

      Simpler synchroscopes can be constructed with two diodes and lightbulbs. No CPUs, no networks, no hackers, just the comparison of two AC waveforms.

      If you try and connect whilst not synchronized then a check-relay should stop you, this would be hardwired and not possible to bypass.

      If these systems can be desrtoyed by the controlling PLC then they are pretty rubbish designs! There is a reason why you use external protection systems, which are usually connected together with only hardwired digital signals. The generator protection which opens the breaker on something like reverse power would be one of these isolated systems.

      Even being in the control room flipping switches it should be pretty hard to damage the equipment. A combination of both and you might be getting somewhere, but really, there are easier ways to cause chaos!

    52. Re:this should not be possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your design doesn't scale. Like or not, if we are to advance as a society there will need to be more and more automation.

    53. Re:this should not be possible by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Of hardware, there was the infamous Therac 25, an x-ray machine. They saved money by removing some failsafe hardware intended to limit the device to safe levels, and let the software handle that. But the software sometimes got it wrong, commanding the device to emit far too much radiation, and some patients died as a result.

      Actually, that was two errors. The first is that the software allowed inputs that were obviously wrong, and the second was that the UI allowed people to, basically, arrow around and think they changed things.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    54. Re:this should not be possible by JensenDied · · Score: 1

      This has been around since the 90's through LonWorks/LonTalk developed by http://www.echelon.com/
      Supports communication over twisted pair and power line netowkorks.

      This technology is more of a niche offering still at this point though.

      --

      09:F9:11:02 - 9D:74:E3:5B - D8:41:56:C5 - 63:56:88:C0

    55. Re:this should not be possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean they need to jump a motorcycle into the guard post from an adjacent building, break into the control centre, and run nmap on a terminal on the internal network, then hope they have ssh-nuke installed to bring down the network?
      Fixed
    56. Re:this should not be possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume (hope) your joking,

      I can't say about the fossil industry, but I can see you sure as hell havn't set foot in a nuclear power plant! I've waited two hours to run a simple test before becayse the operator wasn't around to press the big green start button. I am not jokeing.

      If it ain't on a procedure countersigned by about five people then it doesn't happen. Period.

    57. Re:this should not be possible by orgelspieler · · Score: 1
      hell, you don't even need diodes. but you do need transformers (unless you happen to have bulbs rated at whatever voltage your grid is at). Funny that you should mention the check relay. I knew an operator that would just hold down the breaker close button and wait for the 25 to allow the breaker to close. Crazy bastard.

      Do you work for Solar by any chance?

    58. Re:this should not be possible by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Well, it WAS a nuclear power station, was it not? I guess some newbie sysadmin went apt-get install *nuke*

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    59. Re:this should not be possible by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      >Normally, each generator, transformer and other equipment has safety devices that shut the machine down BEFORE any damage happens. Whatever happened to those? Do they depend on computers for that safety function now, that a simple relay or circuit breaker used to provide?

      The term you're looking for is "ladder logic". It used to be implemented with banks of relays and now involves a microcontroller. It's designed to prevent accidents, not attacks.

      Ladder logic applies to the SCADA interface. The gadgets themselves have their own protective features, but the trend is to save money and hassle by reducing those in favor of computer control.

      If a power plant engineer contradicts me, believe him/her: I'm going off a presentation on SCADA hacking by Jason Larsen.

    60. Re:this should not be possible by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Well, if there is an established procedure for offsetting timings on any coil (as in chain of command), 'Terry' should call your supervisor, not you and then when you (technician) say it is dangerous, there should be a call back to 'Terry' and his supervisor. What you're describing is exactly analogous to the network security system that they would have in place for an automated system. The only difference is, it's easier to fool Rodney the Router into believing you're Maurice the Manager than it is to fool Eric the Engineer by mimicking Maurice's voice, even though both approaches are possible. Contrariwise, you can't very well make Rodney tell Sammy the Servo to flip the generator coil's polarity by yelling at him and pretending you're from upper management and that Maurice isn't answering his mobile phone, or that you've kidnapped his wife and are going to kill her if he doesn't.
      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    61. Re:this should not be possible by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      >Our company has all our generators (and many other things) remotely controlled, and none of those systems are available to the public internet. We have it all captive on our own infrastructure.

      Are you sure? I just went to a presentation by someone who's been examining SCADA systems. He said his typical conversation with engineers goes like
      "We're completely isolated"
      (pause)
      "Except for $GADGET, that has a modem for vendor maintenance"
      (pause)
      "And except for $OTHEROPENING".
      (pause)
      "Oh, and there's $YETANOTHEROPENING".

      If you're sure, good for you, but what happens when someone hooks up their pwned laptop? ATMs have gotten viruses from a technician's laptop even though they were isolated from the Internet.

    62. Re:this should not be possible by arminw · · Score: 1

      ......if we are to advance as a society......

      So if there is even the remotest chance that some hacker in Russia or wherever can shut off or even damage a critical infrastructure in the US, that's an advance? Give me a break! Let's go back to the good old days before such things were possible. Just because something is new and modern and sexy hi-tech, doesn't always mean it is better.

      --
      All theory is gray
    63. Re:this should not be possible by arminw · · Score: 1

      .... It's designed to prevent accidents, not attacks......

      So an attack isn't an accident? It's worse, deliberate sabotage wreaked by someone in a distant place.

      (.....and now involves a microcontroller......)

      Why can there not be a good sized air gap between any such control and safety devices and any remote network? A remote read only function implemented in hardware should keep someone from maladjusting anything from a distance, yet allow the bean counters at headquarters to see how much money they are spending/saving.

      I suspect that there are still quite a few good old-fashioned relays and circuit breakers in service that directly protect large generators, transformers and other components of the power utility systems. It seems inconceivable to me that *any* computer screw-up should damage such equipment. Shut downs, yes, but damage the machinery as shown in that article? I think that experiment they did was rigged. Maybe they bypassed the normal hardware interlocks that used to protect such things before computers got into the act.

      --
      All theory is gray
    64. Re:this should not be possible by NoseyNick · · Score: 1

      So the power companies should pay money to a company who's used to running cables all around the country? Oh, hang on...

      --
      Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
    65. Re:this should not be possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My bad, forgot how they worked there for a second... but then I'm software so I can get away with it!

      No I don't work for Solar, I work for a small UK company specialising in Rolls Royce governor retrofits.

      I've heard of operators like that, better hope the checksync never fails!

    66. Re:this should not be possible by losec · · Score: 1

      Being part of PSTN may not be any more privat than being part of internet. An T1 is like an VPN. A black fiber is "fully-private" until someone hook an sniffer on it. On PSTN you switch ATM-cells, on internet you switch IP-packets, same-same...

    67. Re:this should not be possible by dwye · · Score: 1

      This only happens at Nakatomi Plaza. Even then, the technician asking that the local grid be brought down was well known to the operator who actually did it (although I doubt that an FBI agent would be obeyed like Johnson [no, the other Johnson] was).

    68. Re:this should not be possible by RattFink · · Score: 1

      Or cheaper yet if it's a relatively a short distance (within a city) you can get a dry pair. You can throw a DSLAM on one end and get DSL speeds. Best part is that the cost is really reasonable, the ones I had used cost around $100-$200 a month.

      --
      "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - Marshall McLuhan
    69. Re:this should not be possible by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Being part of PSTN may not be any more privat than being part of internet.

      A leased line is NOT part of the PSTN.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    70. Re:this should not be possible by russotto · · Score: 1

      Leased lines aren't security through obscurity. They are security through separation between your network and the threat. That separation isn't perfect, not as good as a dedicated physical channel, but it's pretty darn good. Now that not every schmoe on the internet can send an IP packet to you, you only have to worry about more savvy attackers who can attack the leased line provider.

      The wireless device is a red herring. That's a separate threat, one which exists whether or not the device is on the Internet, a leased line, or even completely isolated (normally). The existence of that vector doesn't justify opening the much larger one of Internet access.

      And yes, the monitoring stations should be separate from the public Internet as well. But even if they aren't, it's still an improvement that the generators themselves are; it means that the attacker needs to mount a more complex attack fooling the people monitoring the system into making a wrong move, rather than just telling the generators to self destruct.

  3. computer software and physical hardware by RasendeRutje · · Score: 1

    "computer software and physical hardware"
    How about het NON-computer software and NON-physical hardware?

    --

    If Microsoft was mass, stupidity would be gravity.
    1. Re:computer software and physical hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be simulating a program in an integrated circuit on a virtual machine?

  4. Likely excuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A program that happens to be called 'Aurora' destroys a generator hundreds of miles away. I happen to know another program named 'Aurora' that could do that same thing.

    1. Re:Likely excuse by mink · · Score: 1

      I thought stuff like that only happens when Northstar comes into contact with Aurora.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
  5. Bruce Willis will prevent this from ever happening by dstiggy · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else immediately think of Live Free or Die Hard when reading this?

  6. Don't connect it up by squoozer · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is a really simple and quick fix for this problem - don't connect the control equipment to a (public) computer network.

    What is more interesting than the fact this was possible is the fact that some numb skull thought it might be a good idea to link critical control systems to a public network. I can see that there is scope for remote control, especially with a nuclear plant, but I hardly think sending the data over the Intertubes is the correct way to do it.

    --
    I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    1. Re:Don't connect it up by LehiNephi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's one problem with that: in today's world, data has to flow back to headquarters. Take an oil production facility for example. The plant has to send back a daily report detailing exactly how much gas/oil/water/CO2/H2S/sand/whatever is produced. Gas turbines send data back to the manufacturer for performance evaluation, maintenance scheduling, and troubleshooting. Yes, someone could do it manually, but there are myriad other functions that require network connectivity beyond the control system.

      --
      Help find a cure for cancer. Join the [H]orde
    2. Re:Don't connect it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then use a dedicated line (ISDN?) that is set up to be secure through strong encryption and authentication, not the internet.

    3. Re:Don't connect it up by theotherbastard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Except that would never work with how the power grid is setup. The plants all communicate with Central Control. (I know because I happen to work for an Electric Company) Central Control is a big room with video walls the likes of which you have never seen! (Our main one happens to be the largest video wall in North America) These control centers are (gues what!) controlling how much power goes out across the lines at any given moment. And it has to be carefully controlled otherwise you get a sag or a spike which does all sorts of damage.

      In addition to the Central Control there are Regional Dispatch Offices which have information about the grid as well. These mainly coordinate repair and upgrade efforts. But, they need to know which circuits are hot because people's lives are on the line.

      So, simply isolating the plants would not work. Certainly not in our day and age.

      --
      Buttons aren't toys.
    4. Re:Don't connect it up by prelelat · · Score: 1

      why on earth could you not run two networks at the plant? I bet a thumb drive would work wonders for transferring data to a terminal in the same room to send data to headquarters. Hell you could have someone do it hourly if you really wanted, but you probably only need it once a day when you say do a backup of that same data. As for running the equipment, I'm sure it's ran all internally anyways, why do you have to have that computer network connected to the outside world?

    5. Re:Don't connect it up by HaloZero · · Score: 1

      Please. There are ways to do this safely without constant connectivity. You have a router that's connected for a sum total of five minutes - a random five minutes, mind you, but five minutes - not even five minutes, really. As long as it takes to xmit the data to a proxy server on the perimeter, which can then host it for whoever wants to come along and read the report at 3pm that day. Or whatever specified interval.

      --
      Informatus Technologicus
    6. Re:Don't connect it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, it was a staged hack. The purpose was to find out if someone can physically destroy the generator, GIVEN that he has remote access to the control system. The test says nothing about whether these systems are actually connected to public networks or dedicated lines (which might not be sufficiently secured either, btw).

      Second, yes, there shouldn't be a universal network connection into the control system. All that is needed is a parameter flow in and out. But that's the interesting bit: Even that wouldn't have saved the generator. The control system wasn't hacked to do anything it wasn't supposed to do. The regular control mechanisms were used to make the generator exceed its safe operating frame.

      Perhaps you've heard of viruses which physically destroy monitors or other computer hardware. Monitors would fry if you gave them a signal with a horizontal frequency that exceeded their specification. Processors would fry if they were overclocked (before they got embedded heat sensors and clock throttling). You can still fry graphics cards that way, especially if the fan is software controlled.

      Car analogy time: It's like overrevving the motor in your car. Sometimes there are no safeties at all, but most modern hardware is designed for idiot operators. There's a cost involved with that though, so many systems are designed with software controls that keep the hardware within operating limits. They just found out that the control system does not catch all cases where the hardware is driven beyond critical by a certain sequence of nominal parameters. Like a car where you can normally go full throttle in idle without damaging the engine, but when you push the pedal with a certain frequency, you can still make the engine go beyond its limit and destroy itself.

    7. Re:Don't connect it up by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      There's one problem with that: in today's world, data has to flow back to headquarters. Then use a Data Diode it is a physically secure link that provides one-way data flow (it's essentially half of a fibre-optic pair, the transmit half is connected up while the receive half has been removed).
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    8. Re:Don't connect it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Power plants need bidirectional connections because they constantly report their current output and capabilities to the "grid" controller, who also constantly sends them adjustments. All power which is used at any point in time must be produced within a few seconds of the consumption. The only buffer fast enough to react to shorter bursts is the mechanical energy in the generator flywheels. All other fluctuations must be compensated in a coordinated fashion, and that requires bidirectional outside communication.

    9. Re:Don't connect it up by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Power plants need bidirectional connections because they constantly report their current output and capabilities to the "grid" controller, who also constantly sends them adjustments. So what's stopping the grid controller from being on an isolated network?

      If you believe the OP's premise, it's the links to "to headquarters" for "daily reports" and "to the manufacturer" for "performance evaluation, maintenance scheduling and troubleshooting" that require connections to a public network. Those uses are all unidirectional.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    10. Re:Don't connect it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Isolated networks" can still be infiltrated (rogue controller, unguarded cable somewhere between the controller and the power plant, etc.). That is not the kind of safety you want or need. The test was not to find out if the control network is properly defended. The test was to find out if the local safety mechanisms are sufficient to prevent "normal" remote control instructions from destroying the generator, instructions that don't require an intrusion into the local computer systems.

    11. Re:Don't connect it up by siriuskase · · Score: 1

      I was thinking T1. I mean we were doing all kinds of remote stuff back in the 80's before corporates were allowed to use the Internet. We set up our own internets with T1's between all the plants and business offices. We used the same sort of protocols as the internet and were not connected. Those networks are still in place, or could be. Your T1 doesn't have to go to a public access point, it can go straight to your own facilities. The only problem with the private internets is that you can't access easily from internet cafes and such while traveling. I don't think you save enough money by using public networks to make it worth the risk. Obviously, it does cost a little more, but this is infrastructure most corporations had in place prior to the opening up of the internet.

      --
      If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    12. Re:Don't connect it up by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      "Isolated networks" can still be infiltrated (rogue controller, unguarded cable somewhere between the controller and the power plant, etc.). That is not the kind of safety you want or need. Bullshit. When infiltration requires physical access, hell of a lot more secure than when most anyone can telnet directly in. The fact that you used quotes around the phrase "Isolated networks" - a standard infosec term, and that you think unguarded cables between the controller and power plant are a risk when encrypted links are the norm of such implementations suggest to me that you don't know a damn thing about what you are talking about.

      The test was not to find out if the control network is properly defended. The test was to find out if the local safety mechanisms are sufficient to prevent "normal" remote control instructions from destroying the generator, instructions that don't require an intrusion into the local computer systems. So, you are saying that this entire sub-thread is moot because the OP's claim that the control networks need to be connected to semi-public networks for reporting purposes is irrelevant to the test that was conducted? Gee thanks for participating.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    13. Re:Don't connect it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for being so condescending. The difference between an isolated network and a public network is the method of access, not the data that is sent over them. Many isolated networks are not properly defended against unauthorized physical access, hence the quotes, because then they are not really isolated as far as security aspects go. I guess that providing proper physical security for a private network this wide would be impractical, so security must be established in a different way.

      If you're so fond of the encryption, then why are you afraid of using a public network? If you can hack into the system over the public link, you can hack into the system over the private link. The method of gaining access to that link is the only difference.

      The primary purpose of the test was to find out whether the power generation hardware can be permanently damaged by remote control, which makes the threat of network vulnerabilities much more dangerous than just a temporary blackout. The danger of permanent damage to the electrical grid does not hinge on the type of connection between the power plants but on the local (hardware and software) safety measures which are insufficient and can't prevent physical damage with the certainty that is necessary.

    14. Re:Don't connect it up by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I never once disputed that the equipment's own software should be improved. But you really seem to think that such improvement is the only necessary step. I'll leave off the dissection of your ignorance about encrypted links, isolated networks and physical security.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    15. Re:Don't connect it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a really simple and quick fix for this problem - don't connect the control equipment to a (public) computer network.


      Hah! This is old stuff. Before the NYC blackout of the 60s we'd hooked the output of a light organ controller up to a powerstation control board. Things were rocking when we played "I am the walrus" through it.

      But then, someone had the bright idea of playing it backwards. We'll never do *that* again.
    16. Re:Don't connect it up by fractoid · · Score: 1

      The only problem with the private internets is that you can't access easily from internet cafes and such while traveling. Because I totally need to control my power plant from a net cafe in rural Thailand. :P
      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  7. Re:Bruce Willis will prevent this from ever happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did anyone else immediately think of Live Free or Die Hard when reading this? No, because you're the only one who watched that movie.
  8. Beware by caesura · · Score: 1

    Hackers can and will hack into your computer and make it explode. I learned this from the front page of a tabloid last week.

    1. Re:Beware by operagost · · Score: 1

      I learned from the movies that 24.75.345.200 and 75.748.86.91 are valid IP addresses.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    2. Re:Beware by arjun21 · · Score: 1

      You have learned it, so try to prevent from getting hacked.. Hackers will still find away to hack although u close all the possible doors.

    3. Re:Beware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I learned from Star Trek that if you shoot a computer with a phaser, it will explode. Also if you wire it wrong it will explode.

      I learned from The Prisoner that if you ask a computer "why" it will shake and smoke much like the generator in TFA before exploding. Clearly, some of the materials essential to the construction of computers is C-4 and/or TNT.

      I learned from a redneck I know that if you read a tabloid, your head will assplode.

      -mcgrew

  9. This was done long time ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like 11 and a half years by now. Name Chernobyl rings a bell?

    1. Re:This was done long time ago by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      Like 11 and a half years by now. Name Chernobyl rings a bell?

      Hello friend. Now don't panic, but I'm afraid I have to tell you you're stuck in the year 1997.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  10. Why mention Nuclear? by brucmack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't understand why Nuclear power needed to be singled out. The electrical generators are pretty similar regardless of the fuel source. And if it blows up, it's not going to take the nuclear reactor / coal furnace / (insert steam source here) with it, since they tend to be very well separated from each other.

    1. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by SQLGuru · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      While the generators, etc. would blow up the same, what if say the nuclear control rod was also controlled in a very similar manner.....probably likely since people like to reuse components to reduce cost and all.....now say I remotely control that little rod to be moved in that very special way where, say, some sort of nuclear meltdown happens.....

      That's the concern with nuclear.....not the whole generator thing, but the extrapolation into what ELSE could be done remotely using similar ideas.

      Layne

    2. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      Because the turbines is where your secondary coolant loop dumps most of its heat. If your heat sink stops functioning, your primary coolant heats up. If your power plant was designed by some guy in Russia in 1952, and you had bypassed the rudimentary safety interlocks, despite the Cyrillic script clearly telling you never to push this button, this could potentially cause a meltdown.

    3. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The parent post is profoundly ignorant of how a modern nuclear reactor works.

    4. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by lluBdeR · · Score: 1, Insightful

      True, but after thinking about how a reactor works, he might have an unintended point: You could have some fun dropping all the control rods. It only takes a few seconds for a modern reactor to scram, but they take hours to get going again. Not destructive, but certainly a nuisance.

    5. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 1

      AFAIK there arn't any modern nuclear reactor being used for commercial energy production in the US. The newest commercial nuclear power plant reactor in the US dates to the 1970. Why would knowledge of modern nuclear reactor functioning be an issue in talking about 30+ year old reactors?

    6. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fortunately there are no power plants "designed by some guy in Russia in 1952" in use in the Western world. Furthermore, most of the heat gets dumped in the cooling system, be it evaporative cooling towers or river fed heat exchangers. Nuclear power plants are designed with enough cooling capacity to dump more heat than the reactor is capable of producing.

      These things weren't designed for "least cost".

    7. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      Well it's been a while since I looked into it, but my guess is that during normal operation most (~80%) of the heat actually gets dumped to the turbines. After all, power plants are in the business of converting heat to electricity, and that doesn't happen in cooling stacks.

      That said, I have no doubt that a modern(ish) (built c. 1970) nuclear power plant could handle a turbine seizure, and dump all that heat to cooling towers or somewhere.

    8. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Especially since the largest single energy producing unit is a coal plant out in the midwest called Zimmer, which you can find from EIA files. Admittedly, it just ekes out Palo Verde Nuclear, but its close. Of the 100 largest units in the US, 70 are nuclear units, and 25 are coal. All of them are connected to private SCADA networks linking them to their Local Control Centers. Almost all companies I am aware of have also linked their private networks to their LANs through VPN.

      A loss of a generator can cause a frequency disturbance across the whole interconnect, and the grid can only survive about 6 simultaneous losses of that magnitude before you would start tripping underfrequency relays, and companies would start disconnecting from one another and begin dumping load (customers). Each Control Area keeps reserves to recover the loss of their largest unit in 10 minutes, so it has to be quick before the reserve CTs can start. Once blacked out, a CA can reattach to its neighbor for a faster recovery.

      The danger is a compromised LAN, leading to compromized VPN authentication, granting remote access to the SCADA network. The cracker would then access several LCCs simultaneously, causing numerous simultaneous trippings across the country, bringing down many CAs. The CAs wouldn't be able to cover their immediate loss, and knocking out a lot of pieces could bring the whole network to its knees, and you wouldn't be able to lean on your neighbor for reserves. The 4 hour duration NorthEast blackout of 2003 caused immense financial damage, so there's no accounting for what a larger outage would do.

    9. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Not just ignorant of how a modern reactor works. The only reactor where this would even begin to cause a real issue is the specific Soviet design used in Chernobyl. After that debacle, everyone who had one of that particular type started dismantling them. At this point, I highly doubt there's a nuclear reactor in existence where the GP's post would make any sense. In fact, it would have been a rarity in the 1960s to find a reactor where that makes sense.

    10. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      Although I agree that the nuclear angle is probably flamebait, your example is a it simplistic. In BWR's, the nuclear coolant drives the turbine directly, and if a turbine sheds blades they will slice through the condenser tubes. It happened at Fermi a while back. And dropping the genset onto the grid would be a great way to make that happen. Fortunately, the controls at nuke plants are NOT remote controlled, and I can't think of a way by which an out of phase start could be made to happen from outside sources.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    11. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by FirstOne · · Score: 1

      Nuclear reactors are large complex machines that must continue to operate their cooling systems after the grid goes down or they WILL self destruct (meltdown).

          A reactor uses a dozen or more large, 250 to 5000 HP, electrically driven pumps to keep those cooling systems operational.

          Large amounts of thermal energy, (~%11 initially), is still being produced by the decay of short lived isotopes despite the complete insertion of the control rods. That thermal energy must be removed or it will boil away the coolent until the core becomes exposed and melting occurs.

          It takes a considerable time of active cooling before a reactor output diminishes sufficiently enough to prevent the aforementioned outcome. As design criteria each reactor is equiped with several large backup diesel generators, (same as those used in the test), to keep those cooling systems operational after a grid loss.

            It should be noted, that the NRC has never required nuclear power plants survive an EMP attack. Just how many N-plants will enter into a meltdown phase after such an event is a unknown/untested quanitity.

    12. Re:Why mention Nuclear? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why Nuclear power needed to be singled out.

      Because they are safe clean and green. Go back to playing in the garden and let the nasty Moorlocks sort out the details of how the messy machines break.

      If you take propaganda too far it gets counterproductive - safety standards should not be dropped just because of a successful advertising campaign.

  11. Remotely caused power generator to self-destruct? by permaculture · · Score: 1

    "cause a power generator to self-destruct remotely". This seems unlikely.

    What probably happened was that they "remotely caused a power generator to self-destruct."

    /stickler

    --
    Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
  12. Re:Bruce Willis will prevent this from ever happen by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Funny

    Did anyone else immediately think of Live Free or Die Hard when reading this? No, because you're the only one who watched that movie. I did....oh wait, did you say that was supposed to be a movie? Gak!

  13. Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm no computer security expert but I do know of the world's most unhackable firewall -- it's called a one inch air gap. Put that gap between the network cable and the NIC and nobody is gaining access.

    Yes, I know power plants will require some net access for web, email, etc. But the office worker network and the command and control computers and network for the generators should have nothing to do with each other! Separate systems, no network connectivity, the plant software should be operating in a vacuum bubble. The rest of the world should not exist for it, no way, no how. Oh, need to install a patch for the software? After being thoroughly tested and vetted on a proofing system, the software is then installed the old-fashioned way, off of CD-ROM's. Now if someone can fuck with the CD-ROM's, THAT I can understand. I can buy the plausibility of the NSA printer hack, even if it was a hoax. (NSA puts a virus on printers heading to Iraq, takes down their network.) The story about the CIA sabotaging software for equipment the Russians were buying to use in their pipelines is true. These are secure systems completely cut off from external contact that were sabotaged by the insertion of compromised components that were not detected. That makes perfect sense.

    It always bothers me when I see movies showing hackers getting in to some place and gaining access to files on servers that should never have a connection to the outside world. Then again, maybe I'm giving the fictional syadmins of the target systems too much credit. Who knows, maybe next week we'll read about some Korean hackers who were able to compromise a Minuteman silo and add it to their botnet.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by jamesh · · Score: 1

      I have about 90 inches of air between my computer and the network, and it's not stopping me.

      The "1 inch (or mm) air gap" idea is a good one, but getting harder and harder to implement. If a tech has a laptop connected to the internal network, and has wireless enabled, and its in range of the hacker then you have a problem (in theory - see the recent apple wireless compromise)

      If he has a PC connected to the internal network with no wireless, but has his phone connected to it via USB, then in theory that could also be an attack path (ok... that one's a stretch).

      You've also got to remember, all it takes is one employee with a grudge, or who you aren't paying enough, and all the air gaps in the world won't help you. There is never a single solution.

    2. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      I'm no computer security expert but I do know of the world's most unhackable firewall -- it's called a one inch air gap. Put that gap between the network cable and the NIC and nobody is gaining access.

      Sorry, not enough. Smart hackers up the line voltage in the network cable to 20kV to cross the one inch air gap.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Actually, the connections come in when you start looking at feeding operating data into the business processes.....or when you want to monitor the state of the machine to automatically trigger preventative maintenance.....or automated control.

      Layne

    4. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      the plant software should be operating in a vacuum bubble

      The problem is that they can't. If you think back to some of the more recent spectacular blackouts, you'll recall that the reason they were so far-reaching was that the networked systems that allow the generation and distribution systems (often run halfway across the continent by different parties/agencies) to talk to each other and properly duck out of the way or isolate themselves from damaging surges and faults... weren't fast enough or well-enough tuned to prevent the problem. Big, multi-state/province blackouts can only be prevented when the whole system IS internetworked. Now, does that call for the construction of a completely separate, ultra-high-performance network spanning thousands of miles and thousands of nodes? Yes. Or, it could call for using VPNs over the existing internet, but with better-than-the-banks-use stuff at each node to authenticate legit traffic and perform intrusion detection.

      This is just as true of systems that could end up backwashing sewage into drinking water (which has happened), monkeying with natural gas pipelining hardware, or even handling traffic control devices right at the time that you're trying to evacuate a city for some reason.

      Fantastically expensive. And the money just hasn't been spent well enough or often enough yet. And, we've still got lots of Cold War-era control systems out there. I think this is more about practices than it is about the plumbing, per se.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    5. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Even if you used private networks, determined hackers could still tap into them so you'd have to use encryption, firewalls and all that - which pushes the cost up even more.

      "Big, multi-state/province blackouts can only be prevented when the whole system IS internetworked"

      Not correct. Big multistate blackouts can be prevented if you don't have a big grid in the first place. Each electrical network will be isolated from the others. But apparently it is more expensive to do things this way (assuming a safer environment), plus some places tend to produce the power while other places use it...

      Another advantage of not having the electrical in a big grid is the hackers will have to break into each system to sabotage them, and that might be a bit more difficult if they don't all have the same weaknesses.

      As for the article saying "For about $5 million and between three to five years of preparation, an organization, whether it be transnational terrorist groups or nation states, could mount a strategic attack against the United States"

      For that amount of money and preparation you could do _other_ stuff that doesn't involve "hacking power utilities" which would be pretty damaging to the USA too.

      --
    6. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Funny

      You've also got to remember, all it takes is one employee with a grudge, or who you aren't paying enough, and all the air gaps in the world won't help you. There is never a single solution. Fire employees, turn off computers. I'm feeling grumpy.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    7. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      Actually, the connections come in when you start looking at feeding operating data into the business processes.....or when you want to monitor the state of the machine to automatically trigger preventative maintenance.....or automated control. But still, why aren't they hardening the shit out of these interfaces? Is it because nobody takes software engineering seriously? There are a lot of tricky and subtle problems that knock airplanes out of the sky but aerospace engineers are paid the big bucks to make sure that doesn't happen. Their employers know that faults that do make it past inspection lead to massive class-action suits from the survivors' families.

      The only two explanations I can think of: A) Fight Club car recall theory where the business owners decide the cost of wrongful death suits is lower than the cost to correct or B) Windows Vista theory where the engineers are smart enough and motivated to make a good product but indomitable stupidity within the corporate power structure makes success a null probability. In other words, it's malice or stupidity but I'm not sure which.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    8. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      The right PDA (e.g. iPhone) could also be a path of vulnerability -- he could log into the internal wifi network, and get hacked over the cellular network.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    9. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      Actually, the connections come in when you start looking at feeding operating data into the business processes.....or when you want to monitor the state of the machine to automatically trigger preventative maintenance

      Business processes: they're usually not required to be instantaneous. You could do just as well logging data to a removable HDD or other media of choice and then physically reconnecting it.

      Monitoring: the link doesn't have to be two way -- the monitoring system could just spit data out over an RS-232 one-way link with no inbound communication.

      If you're sufficiently paranoid, there's always a way.

    10. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      h4x0rz are, as we speak, mastering the 1337 skillz of inductive hacking.

    11. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by PPH · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know power plants will require some net access for web, email, etc. But the office worker network and the command and control computers and network for the generators should have nothing to do with each other!

      That policy works great until:
      1. The IT department overrules engineering and combines both networks for "cost savings".
      2. Some manager has a temper tantrum when he sees a PC on the shop floor and can't get his e-mail or stock broker's web page
      3. Same manager has a similar fit when he brings his infected laptop from home and plugs it into the nearest thing that looks like a network jack

      I've seen it, not in a utility, but at a manufacturing facility that is responsible for testing avionics hardware and uploading software to the same.
      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    12. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by sheph · · Score: 1

      Well it goes a little beyond that I'm afraid. I happen to work for a company that produces electricity, and I can tell you that we have to be able to communicate what we are generating, and what our demand is to our surrounding utilities. We do not do this over the Internet (thank goodness), but there is some risk involved there. We are also currently in hte process of being audited by INL, and will no doubt have plenty of things to do to stay busy in the coming months. Someone else pointed out earlier that connectivity is almost a necessity now days due to federal regulation that requires the exchange of information to stablize the grid. Gone are the days when each utility could exist in its own little bubble. It has also been mentioned that most of this equipment is old, and was developed and implemented in a day and age where security was not a concern. I'm a little concerned to see things like this on Slashdot, as I'd like a few more months to nail down my network before we get to deal with all of the 1337 kids. Nothing to see here please move along.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    13. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Industry insider here. Here's a little something that'll make your day, slashbot #513215:

      The "fight club" theory is exactly right.
      Industry and utilities are more or less entirely windows based, and normally use whatever programming skills their existing engineer possess.

      The reason you don't see a lot of "accident x causes by windows update" or "loss y caused by buggy VB program" is that:
      a) Most everything "critical" to human or machine safety and security is protected by "dumb" failsafes and interlocks close to the hardware (ie. overflow valves, motion stops, fuses).
      b) That's the cost of doing business "in the real world" to most people. They feel comfortable about a computer that only works 99.9% of the time; that's a nice mesoscopic reliability figure that isn't that much worse than many human or hardware factors.

    14. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      I've seen it, not in a utility, but at a manufacturing facility that is responsible for testing avionics hardware and uploading software to the same. And you can't club someone like that over the head with something heavy and call it preemptive troubleshooting?
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    15. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by thewiz · · Score: 1

      Who knows, maybe next week we'll read about some Korean hackers who were able to compromise a Minuteman silo and add it to their botnet.

      That would give a whole new meaning to "denial of service attack".
      --
      If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
    16. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The IT department overrules engineering and combines both networks for "cost savings"."

      At the utility I worked at, the engineers insisted on using the corporate WAN to interconnect plants so they wouldn't have to deploy additional infrastructure. Of course they are also the fools who 802.11b without WEP to interconnect buildings at generation facilities.

      There are idiots in every profession and they contaminate everything they touch.

    17. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by ross.w · · Score: 1

      You're assuming there even is an internal wi-fi network. In a high security environment, there would be no wi-fi fitted, and they should be plugging the USB ports with superglue.

      --
      If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
    18. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by Jarik_Tentsu · · Score: 1

      #168859 +(4518)- [X]

        The most secure computer in the world is one not connected to the internet.
        Thats why I recommend Telstra ADSL.

      That works too. =)

      ~Jarik

    19. Re:Um, WHY was the generator on the internet?!! by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      You're right of course -- except for the superglue part -- cyanoacrylate has been known to eat copper traces on circuit boards.... Some sort of epoxy should certainly be used.

      If it were MY top-secret facility, I think would use that epoxy designed for plugging holes in gas tanks. It goes in just like plasticine, sticks to any plastic or metal, turns hard as a rock, and is highly solvent-resistant.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  14. Sack whoever connected it to an untrusted network by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So someone connected a generator to an untrusted network and it was hacked? While they're at it, why not hand your keys and security pass to terrorist?

    Whenever this comes up, it's usually some firewall vendor trying to sell people firewalls on their internal control systems. It would be negligent to connect a safety critical system to an open network like that in the real world. At every job I've worked on, it was an instant sacking offence.

    So if that was done, and not just a fake demonstration by a firewall vendor, the sysadmin concerned should be dismissed immediately.

  15. Damn I'm Cynical... by KGIII · · Score: 1

    I have to wonder about the authenticity and if this is viable in the real world. The term "staged" really does raise a red flag making me curious if this is probable or even possible. It isn't that we shouldn't be defending against these things nor that I am dunking my head in the sand but, well, without more details...

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    1. Re:Damn I'm Cynical... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit. All they've shown is a picture of a generator with some sort of steam coming out. There's no description of what they actually *did*.

      Did they apply too much load to the generator until the engine stalled? You'd have to sprag the circuit breakers for that to happen.

    2. Re:Damn I'm Cynical... by Detritus · · Score: 1

      One way to destroy a generator is to put it online without properly phasing it with the grid.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  16. Decreasing DHS budget... by bracktra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Fast and resolute mitigating action is needed to avoid a national disaster," the letter said. But five years later, there is no such program. Federal spending on electronic security is projected to increase slightly in the coming fiscal year, but spending in the Department of Homeland Security is projected to decrease to less than $100 million, with only $12 million spent to secure power control systems.
    1. Stage PR stunt about an impending 'emergency!!!'.
    2. Complain about lack of funding to solve desperate hole in our nation's security.
    3. ???
    4. Profit!
    1. Re:Decreasing DHS budget... by sheph · · Score: 1

      I wish that were true. Unfortunately it's not. Are there companies out there taking advantage of a bad situation? Yeah, kind of goes along with capitalism. The threat is very real though.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
  17. They are connected to the Internet by Isbjorn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am the system administrator for a large state government agency. Recently I was essentially forced to connect a Windows XP boiler control system for an electrical generation plant to the Internet, so that the vendor can do remote maintenance. If I hadn't found out about it, it would be connected directly without even a firewall... This system had no anti-virus software, and of course it has a popular remote-control software installed for the vendor's access. The only reason I can sleep at night is that the plant is far away from any populated area, and may be shut down due to other reasons soon. I will be sending this video to a number of people in an email today.

    1. Re:They are connected to the Internet by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

      You should of said that it will not go on the network with off any anti-virus software and that you must have full control over installing updates. Also you should have a firewall for the full site no just a software fire wall on each pc.

    2. Re:They are connected to the Internet by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      Throw OpenVPN on the network gateway and make that subnet only accessable via VPN. OpenVPN is SSL/key based, so it's more secure than passwords (and can be combined with passwords). Plus, it's free, and there's a Windows GUI client that's simple enough for even a developmentally challenged chimp to use. No key file; no access.

      -b.

  18. Well thaaar's your problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well thaars your problem!
    Ya need to turn on windows update!

  19. Operating System? by trelanexiph · · Score: 2, Funny

    From TFA "researchers were able to cause a power generator to self-destruct remotely via a hack which changed the operating cycle of the generator"

    You mean they upgraded it to Microsoft Windows Vista?

  20. TV is 3 years faster than Government by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

    The TV movie Category 6: Day of Destruction went into details that US power plants are vulnerable to remote attacks, and featured such a guy who managed to make generators self-destruct from his home PC (he died when connectivity was cut off, and realising what he did, he went to the power plant to fix things locally, but too late).

    And there we go, 3 years later the government wakes up to the threat as well.

    Guess my advice to government fellows is: watch more TV, it'll raise your IQ. OMG the irony :(

  21. Re:Remotely caused power generator to self-destruc by necro81 · · Score: 1

    You see, man, you're sending me all these crazy signals. I can't take it! It's frying my brain and sucking my will to live!

    That's IT! I'm sick of this! I'm going to self destruct - that'll show you. But, just to be tricky, I'm not going to self destruct right here, I'm going to go over to that corner and do it remotely. Ha!

  22. Gotta love US television by youthoftoday · · Score: 1

    Perhaps only in the US could a report on a vulnerability turn so quickly into dramatic eschatological nonsense.

    Also, did I see nixie tubes? How old is your infrastructure?

    --
    -1 not first post
    1. Re:Gotta love US television by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      I think they got rid of Nixie in 1974. Presumably, he took his tube with him.

      Although a Whitehouse aide may have saved some of his emissions in a safe-deposit box somewhere.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  23. inconcievable! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or like that songs says. BOOM BOOM BOOM Out goes the lights.

  24. I quote ... by ThirdPrize · · Score: 1

    "I can't say it [the vulnerability] has been eliminated. But I can say a lot of risk has been taken off the table," said Robert Jamison, acting undersecretary of DHS's National Protection and Programs Directorate as he pulled the network cable out of the wall socket.

    --
    I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
  25. Re:Remotely caused power generator to self-destruc by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hi! This is Chief Rufus Xavier Sarsaparilla of the Grammar Police. Where do we send your check, Lt. Permaculture?

  26. SCADA Security Course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can actually learn how to do this yourself at this course I took:

    http://infosecinstitute.com/courses/scada_security_training.html

  27. Well duh... by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    With a staged hack I can launch an ICBM...

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Well duh... by lluBdeR · · Score: 0

      r33t. All I can find is this thing that asks me if I'd like to play a game.

  28. Disconnecting is NOT an option by ExE122 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These post are getting ridiculous. Too many people are saying "why don't they just disconnect it from the network?" and getting modded as "insightful".

    It's NOT that simple! If they are connected to the network, there is probably a very good reason for it, and not just cause some engineer wants to check his email and download pr0n while listening to the generators hum.

    These generators more than likely are controlled by self-optimizing systems based on a variety of data that is collected. If they're providing power to various remote sites, they need the internet for gathering data from those sites.

    The internet is more than just a public free-for-all, it is the communication medium for many business/mission-critical systems (see LehiNephi's response above). They really just need to have the right security in place to keep it safe.

    --
    Capitalism: When it uses the carrot, it's called democracy. When it uses the stick, it's called fascism.
    1. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by makapuf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      s/the internet/a private wan

      why do you need internet (the public one, with no QoS) to have remote access from one point (data collecting / stat computer) to the power plant ?

      Yes, the data have to be collected from somewhere, but why not make a private WAN (or a VPN if best-effort QoS is OK for you) for this ? It's not about playing WoW with your neighbour, it's about remote controlling a nuclear core, so maybe it would make sense.

    2. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If they are connected to the network, there is probably a very good reason for it...

      Lazyness? Insanely stupid cost cutting?

      Yes, the components of the system need to get data back to the dispatcher, and receive instructions in return. No, that doesn't require the internet. You can use a modem on a leased line. Yes, it really is possible to send and receive data without the intarweb.

      The internet is a cheap, insecure way to accomplish what should be done on an expensive, secure, private network.

    3. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      Yea, modems were never hacked either... Guess you were still in diapers before the 90's.

    4. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ...there is probably a very good reason for it...

      ...more than likely are controlled by self-optimizing systems...

      ...they need the internet for gathering data...
      [Citation Needed]

      I can't believe that was moded insightful.
    5. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by hcdejong · · Score: 1

      You can (could?) get private phone lines, that aren't connected to the public phone network at all ('direct line'). The telephone company can connect incoming lines directly to each other, bypassing the exchange entirely. To hack such a line, you'd need physical access to the exchange building.

    6. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      You'd need physical access to the telephone line, not to the exchange. If the data was running in a non-encrypted form it would be quite easy to become your own exchange in the middle of the loop. Of course link to link and device to monitoring/control station encryption and authentication would go a long way to fixing this, but if they had this, it's likely we would not be talking about it now.

    7. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's my understanding that, not so long ago, none of these critical systems were hooked to the Internet. They were either totally independent or connected to their command centers and data capture equipment through a 'proprietary' network, i.e. power companies used optical fiber hanging from the company's 'poles' or going through the company's ducts. Others used X400 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X400) or similar.
      The fact that all those facilities are nowadays connected 'to' and 'through' the Internet is not a tribute to necessity, but a tribute to economy and irresponsibility.

      Saving money by connecting these machines to the Internet is just a suicidal move.

      Harrumph!

    8. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation Needed] I can't believe that was moded insightful.
      I can't believe that was modded insightful.

      C'mon, where's mine?
    9. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by hcdejong · · Score: 1

      Over here, telephone lines are in the ground, generally in 240-pair bundles. Accessing one requires digging (incl. knowing where to dig), plus time to find the correct pair. It's doable, but rather more difficult than dialing into a modem.

    10. Re:Disconnecting is NOT an option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol @ some junior college loser who thinks he can second guess a real engineer. you probably think busting your ass for 20 hours a week at best buy actually gives you something to say. sad.

  29. We also need to look out for homer simpson's in... by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    We also need to look out for homer Simpson's in the control room to mess things up like the one time he spilled some food on the control panel killing the power at the new york albany power plan and he got off by blaming it on Max Power.

  30. Die Hard 4.0 by KiwiCanuck · · Score: 1

    Hasn't any1 seen the new die hard movie? There are advantages to hard wire, or direct control. What's next? Wireless access!

  31. There are Easier Ways... by xfmr_expert · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are easier ways to damage the bulk power grid (or local transmission). Pick up a rifle at your nearest sporting goods store. Go to your nearest transmission substation (or even large generating plant). Take a shot at the porcelain on one of the transformer bushings. Kablam! You just removed a few hundred MW (or perhaps more) or generating capacity or transfer capability and caused millions of dollars in damage. If it's a generating station, the cost of lost revenue could drive the total to 70 or 80 million. Actually, I have seen bushings with bullet holes. Obviously not that common, or something would be done about it, but it does happen. It won't always cause an immediate and catastrophic failure, but it certainly can. Especially if one keeps trying... The bigger danger to this nations power grid is lack of investment and a severe brain drain in engineering personnel.

    1. Re:There are Easier Ways... by sparkchaser · · Score: 1

      You idiot! Now the terrorists know our weakness!

    2. Re:There are Easier Ways... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you have to physically close to the plant to do that. With the described network weakness, you can take out plants in New York, Ohio, and California simultaneously from a location like North Korea.

    3. Re:There are Easier Ways... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seriously doubt that any terrorists read ./

  32. Jumping Generators by torkus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What a bunch of sad geeks we've become. Instead of crying about how it was connected to the 'net i watched the video.

    I'd like to know what they did to make a multi-ton generator JUMP like that thing did. After a few jumps there were a couple chunks of black stuff flying around. If you watch the "full" video it's clear they cut it at least once if not more. I'm guessing it took them quite a long while to get the generator to "blow up".

    Anyone have thoughts as to how they did it? I'm going to guess they messed with the fuel/air mix or delivery and caused a massive backfire while under/overloading the alternator side. I'd guess for kicks they also forcibly turned off the cooling fans creating an over-temp in the engine. Assuming i'm right and they cut out 95% of the video length that explains it a bit better. The failure seemed two-fold: A failed main-crankshaft seal spewed out white "smoke" (read over-temp coolant) and something up by the valves making black smoke.

    This is probably something you could do to a regular car if you were poking around in the engine management computer.

    --
    You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    1. Re:Jumping Generators by trybywrench · · Score: 2, Insightful

      looks like a thrown rod, maybe they somehow cut off the supply of oil? I don't think the oil pump is usually under any kind of computer control though. ..maybe they over revved the engine and blew a piston that way. Keep the tach red lined long enough and something bad will happen. I don't know about a backfire, wouldn't a backfire cause a stall in the worst case? It looks like something mechanical broke inside the engine (that shudder) and then it slowly ground to a hault.

      --
      I came to the datacenter drunk with a fake ID, don't you want to be just like me?
    2. Re:Jumping Generators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The answer is very simple. When a generator is online it must be "in-phase", meaning pefectly aligned in its generation cycle with the grid. Slow the generator down by .1 Hz and watch what happens when the laws of physics take over.

    3. Re:Jumping Generators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wanna make a big generator jump?

      Disconnect it from the grid, wait until it's about, say, 180 degrees out of phase, and reconnect it.

      Repeat as necessary until it's broke.

      You can't just "slow it down", because when it's connected it will stay in phase. On a large-scale power grid, there's just too much energy involved for a brake of some kind to work. And if you try to drive it faster, all you'll do is increase the current load it's supplying to the grid.

      Oh, and you really can't use internal combustion engines to power a generator that's running in parallel with other generators. The speed control on a diesel generator isn't fine enough - a few tenths of a percent or better speed control is really necessary to run generators in parallel. Generally, that means a turbine of some kind.

    4. Re:Jumping Generators by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

      More likely they forced it out of phase, which basically turns the general coils into a motor, working against the engine.

      --
      Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

      http://financialpetition.org/
    5. Re:Jumping Generators by russotto · · Score: 1

      All they'd have to do is connect the generator to the grid out-of-phase. The grid tries to drive it one way (remembering that a generator and a motor are pretty much the same), it's being mechanically driven the other way... something's gotta give, and it won't be the grid.

    6. Re:Jumping Generators by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

      An indicator was briefly shown which read 2465RPM. That's faster than normal on most gensets, so it may be that they simply removed the overspeed limits on the engine controller.

      Of course as several other people have already pointed out crash paralleling the genset (closing the main breaker when the generator and the utility are out of phase) would also result in the destruction of the generator.

      I have been told that crash paralleling a genset can (rarely) result in the entire engine flipping over on its side.

      --
      Stop the world; I need to get off.
    7. Re:Jumping Generators by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

      Everything except your final statement was good, at my prior workplace we designed control modules that allowed diesel generators to run in parallel with each other or with the grid.

      The technology to do that is decades old and has been implemented by many different genset manufacturers.

      --
      Stop the world; I need to get off.
    8. Re:Jumping Generators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh come on - you're not really that ignorant are you?

      OF COURSE you can use diesel prime movers - We do it here in Texas all the time! And you can just "slow it down" - and yes I work for the power company and know.

      BTW - a turbine would shoot turbine blades thru the turbine case BUT would keep turning (because its being driven by the generator). A prime mover on the other hand would do exactly what happens here.

    9. Re:Jumping Generators by TigerNut · · Score: 1
      As undergraduate electrical engineers we did this in our 3rd year power lab. Use a 5-hp, 250 volt DC motor to drive a 3-phase alternator, get the speed *close* using a tachometer, then use a bank of lightbulbs connected between the alternator outputs and the power grid to determine when to connect the alternator to the grid. When the speed is close, the lights will cycle in brightness over a period of several seconds, and it's easy to connect the system at such a time as to cause minimal load shock to the alternator. Unless you misunderstand the instructions and wait until the lights are at their brightest to connect the system... the other 3rd year class did that and the whole basement stank for about a week.

      With a diesel engine, the alternator acts as a speed control once the connection has been established. The throttle setting will govern which way the power flows, within a fairly broad range. However, if you go just outside that range the generator starts to slip phases with respect to the line, and that causes rapid torque fluctuations that can destroy the machine very quickly if it's not disconnected from the line.

      --

      Less is more.

  33. CRT viruses, CMOS, hardware, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It used to be possible to do the same thing with old CRT monitors. A virus could drive the refresh rate high enough to burn them out. All newer CRTs have an automatic cutoff to prevent accidents. A virus could also re-flash the BIOS so that it could not boot. I sure that there are other possible scenerios where hardware could actually be destroyed. I have been waiting for a virus to come along with a serious payload to alert people to the idea that security matters and that a lack of it can be very expensive.

  34. I used to work for a SCADA/HMI software vendor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I don't usually post anonymously, but I will this time.

    I used to be a developer for a SCADA/HMI software vendor. That stands for Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition / Human Machine Interface.

    It is quite common for such software to be used in places where its failure could cause injury or death.

    Many of our customers put their SCADA systems on the Internet, so that our support staff could work with their systems, as well as to allow our consultant engineers to remotely upload new releases.

    One day my boss told me that a lot of our customers didn't use SSL encryption, either because they couldn't be bothered with it, or because they couldn't figure out how to install the server software or certificate correctly.

    Anyone with a packet sniffer running on the path between us and our customers could have easily stolen the passwords.

    Our product, BTW, ran on Microsoft Windows.

    1. Re:I used to work for a SCADA/HMI software vendor by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      ne day my boss told me that a lot of our customers didn't use SSL encryption, either because they couldn't be bothered with it, or because they couldn't figure out how to install the server software or certificate correctly.

      Maybe there's a market for a prepackaged OpenVPN appliance/router that'll spit out a self-installing .exe file with appropriate client certificates, the OpenVPN program, and the GUI client, so even a newb at a remote site can install it if given to him on a USB key.

      -b.

  35. pfft, that's nothing by sootman · · Score: 1

    "researchers were able to cause a power generator to self-destruct remotely via a hack which changed the operating cycle of the generator"

    My dad used to make hard drive cabinets walk across the room by doing a slow read in one direction and a fast read in the other. (Sorry if I'm sketchy on the details, but it was something like that. The story was told long ago and the events happened even longer before that. This was back when hard disk platters were 12" across, copper-colored, and held a few MB each.)

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  36. The threat is real by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We know that, because *we* did it to the Soviets. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4394002

    And their machines weren't even connected to the internet. So all the people who are saying, "Just disconnect it", well, that's not good enough. We have to engineer systems that are hardened and handle failure gracefully. And don't use stolen software.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  37. Terrorists do not have to think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...of ways to implement their terrorism - all they have to do is read Slashdot and follow up on those articles of all the scientists publicly demonstrating how to cause mayhem and destruction on our infrastructure. The terrorists' level of sophistication is directly related to us showing them that certain things are indeed possible. Here's another nice ripe target for them to exploit and one that we practically handed to them as to how to accomplish it. It's one thing to test for vulnerabilities for the purpose of exposing and fixing flaws, but yet another to be so public with the testing of those vulnerabilities that we essentially become the Terrorist Think Tank for the terrorists. Hey guys, looky here - I found a way to poison the water supply of 5 million homes thru just one valve. Wanna take down the power grid of Texas? Here's how!!! They think the terrorists are camel-monkey's with no internet - but they're looking at these reports as much as we are and they're fully capably of getting a nice fat brainstorm thanks to the hard work of our scientists and our tax dollars. Way to go, people. Why not just hand them a gun and bullets and show them where to aim?

    1. Re:Terrorists do not have to think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the terrorists have to do is burn significant amounts of fossil fuels and we're all doomed.

  38. Money by Detritus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As I've said before, it's all about money. There are almost irresistible forces that lead organizations to connect control systems to the Internet. An isolated private internet is extremely expensive and difficult to maintain. It's so much easier, cheaper, and tempting, to plug that cable into the public internet, perhaps with a crappy firewall to provide an illusion of security. Even if an engineer is willing to stick his neck out and say that it's an unacceptable security risk, he isn't being a team player and will be overruled by someone higher up the food chain.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  39. Re:Bruce Willis will prevent this from ever happen by ceroklis · · Score: 1

    It's worth watching if only for this wonderful bit of dialogue:

    Bruce Willis goes to see the dirty fat nerd who lives with his mother.
    - smelly nerd: What are you doing in my command center ?
    - Willis: It's not a command center, it's a basement.

  40. This has happened before computer controls by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

    Back when I was working on the Trident sub program (early 1980's), one of the veteran submariners told me about an incident on a sub. Subs have multiple generators, and the Navy was attached to manual controls. So, the procedure for brining a 2nd generator online, is to spin it up, watch the phase angle meter, and switch it in when there's 0 phase difference. What happened, was a new guy followed the procedure, but threw the switch when the two generators where 180 degress out of phase. The generator just stopped, twisting the armatures and destroying themselves in the process. The thing is, a simple set of lightbulbs wired between phases could tell you if it's safe to switch, or a relay that's powered by the difference could keep the switch from happening.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    1. Re:This has happened before computer controls by Technician · · Score: 1

      The thing is, a simple set of lightbulbs wired between phases could tell you if it's safe to switch, or a relay that's powered by the difference could keep the switch from happening.

      That is so 1960's and still permits an untrained operator to close the breaker way out of phase. Anything more modern has a phase detection relay which interupts the breaker loop if either the phase is too far out or the speed isn't close enough which could cause sever phase bounce. An additional measure is modern generators have a reverse current relay so if a generator gets a push instead of providing power, it relays out. The reverse current relay quickly drops machines dropped online way out of phase if they lag in phase. This relay and overcurrent relays contributed to the great NY blackout from a few years ago. A line overloaded and relayed out. The overload took the plants close to the overload behind in phase. When the overload suddenly cleared, the behind phase generators got a push to catch up, they as a result relayed out. Their push was a load on the grid and then suddenly they dropped off. This sudden load and loss of load cascaded up the line.

      To prevent this type of outage, some of the system parameters can be bypassed while gyrations are settled. This is the severe torque load seen on the test generator in the video. A non by passable over current device and proper sized reverse current relay could have saved that plant as it would not have gotten slingshot boosted from a high current out of phase condition. Limiting the amount of reverse current and limiting the total current goes a long way to protecting a plant. These hard limits should never be under software control. Adjustable soft limits within safe operating parameters should be allowed, for example for a little line phase and speed bounce permitting reverse power of say 2% of capacity and under speed of 1% and tripping if reactive power is greater than 50% of capacity are permissable and may be adjusted to anticipate transients such as scheduled plant maintenance.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  41. We will add your technilogical and biological ... by josquint · · Score: 1

    ... distinctiveness to our own.

    FTFA:
    "It's equivalent to 40 to 50 large hurricanes striking all at once," Borg said, "resistance is futile."

  42. Not possible by dj245 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As someone who as worked in this position in a power station, let me say that this social engineering attack is not likely. You very quickly learn the names, attitudes, and voices of all the people that frequently call asking for changes to the generators. The number of people calling for these changes is usually a handful, 5 or less. If someone odd calls, we would often ask if another guy we knew was on vacation or sick.

    If someone we never had heard of called asking for something strange, I would have definitely asked to talk to someone I knew at the independent system operator, emergency or not.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:Not possible by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      Isn't this the same type of schmoozing that the early [phone] phreaks used? Obviously not as mission-critical systems, and I'm probably butchering the history of it, but I wouldn't necessarily put "security through familiarity" as a concrete protection from social attack.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    2. Re:Not possible by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Bzzzt.

      It's exactly that sort of quasi-official familiarity that social engineers exploit. You see, they'll know the name of the guy that usually calls, they'll know where they're based, they'll know about their kid, they'll be intimately familiar with the operating procedures, they'll know all the right terms and the system setup, and have a great explanation as to who they are and why they're the ones calling.

      Con artists don't just walk around guessing how things work. They probably won't know how to actually run the generators, but they'll certainly sound as if they do.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    3. Re:Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, and your arrogance shows that it would in fact be possible to hack this. Maybe not using that exact technique but the fact that you guys believe you can't be hacked through social engineering shows your weakness.

    4. Re:Not possible by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      As a former generator protection guy, I can tell you that checking with somebody higher up doesn't always help. The guy that had the position before me fell victim to a very similar type of social engineering. It wasn't a hacker, but an over-zealous operator. The operator was getting what he thought were nuisance trips and asked to remove the 59 element (overvoltage protection). Really, really stupid thing to do. The protection guy knew it and said, "Hell no." But the operator insisted that he talk with the chief engineer. Well the head honcho is notorious for shooting from the hip and trying to make customers happy in whatever way possible, so he told the protection guy to go ahead. Well, shortly after they disabled the element, $2,000,000 worth of generators went up in smoke. My predecessor didn't get it in writing from the chief, so he got sacked, and I got his job.

  43. Heard of this before - Self Destructing Printers by StCredZero · · Score: 1

    Seen that before, well I've heard of something like this before.

    As an undergrad, a fellow student told me about a certain kind of old heavy duty line-printer for mainframe batch processing. It had a hammer for every single character position and a curculating belt with the entire printable character set repeated. A hammer would fire whenever a character coincided with the hammer in the right position. This would let the printer complete a line very quickly. Some bright guy in the shop made up a text file that would cause all of the hammers to fire. BLAM. The hammers all dislocated themselves.

    Self Destructing Printer hack.

  44. Trek Sparks by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Maybe the sparking and smoking of a Trek ship panel when under attack isn't so farfetched after all. The Romulans plant stealth viruses on the ship that cause the panel display diodes to overheat during battle. And laptops that burn the captain's nuts.

    1. Re:Trek Sparks by russlar · · Score: 1

      And laptops that burn the captain's nuts.
      Good plan. Without Kirk's nuts, the Enterprise would not function.
      --
      Anybody want my mod points?
    2. Re:Trek Sparks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the replicators that make the Earl Grey too hot, so Picard spills it in his lap ...and... sues... the...

      Never mind.

  45. Brilliant classification by aero6dof · · Score: 1

    Of all the stupid things the government classifies as secret, here they publicise an attack vector and a specific vulnerability? Maybe they should have kept the particulars of this excercise a secret and just pushed for better security measures on networks controlling our physical infrastructre. Hmm

  46. Y2K by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are engineers all so God damned short sighted, or is it their managers? There should be no connection allowed in! Gees, fellow nerds, some of you are really fucking dense. Yes, it's desirable for your generator to communicate to the corporate (or in Springfield's case, city) network. But the damned thing should have been designed so that only outgoing signals are allowed; a human at the generator end should have to initiate any changes.

    I curse some of my fellow nerds whenever I'm in my car; the power windows piss me off to no end. I'm waiting for someone, but I can't roll the windows up or down without turning the key. If the damned bridge I'm crossing collapses (because some dimwit designed the thing badly) and the car goes into the river, there's going to be no way out of the car at all, as I won't be able to open the door (pressure) OR roll the window down! This is just fucking stupid! PLEASE redesign this, mkay? While you're at it, make it so I can roll windows up with the remote!

    I'm glad that they started using knobs in car radios again, finally. What fucktard decided that having a volume BUTTON on a car radio was a good idea? From the linked article (mine), "Thank God they invented cell phones so you can call an ambulance after you wreck your car trying to turn the volume down to answer your cell phone!"

    But even the digital knob is inferior to the old fashioned potentiometer. Back in the day, I'd turn the volume down before starting the car, bacause if I didn't it would blast me into the back seat (I like to rock). But you can't do that any more; the volume control only works when the damned radio is on!

    -mcgrew

    PS- get the hell off my lawn. And no, you can't have your balls back!

    1. Re:Y2K by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Ok, first off, if you leave your friend in your car while you go do something, trust him enough to leave the keys.

      now, the electrical system operates at 12 V (well the part the windows are connected to) and salt water doesn't actually conduct all that well. Fresh water even worse. The windows will continue to operate for several minutes after you've been dunked, unless you had an asshole friend who made you wait in the car..that's parked on a bridge for some reason..without leaving the keys so you can listen to the radio or move it if the cops show up to give you a ticket. If you're really worried, you should also be worried about mechanical failure of a manual window mechanism and get a freakin' life-hammer.

      Regarding the digital control, you don't need to turn it way down when you start the car because the radio will start at zero volume and slowly rise to your previously set level. You don't have as much control as before, but you do get some other benefits as compensation, for instance steering-wheel mounted volume and channel controls, so you don't even have to lean over to the knob any more.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  47. It is mostly bunk by anorlunda · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no such thing as an "operating cycle" to change for a generator.

    The generator pictured in the video is not the kind used in large power plants. It appears to be a diesel generator similar to the kind that is used for backup power in many buildings. Backup generators are typically 1 MW or lesss, whereas big power plant generators are 1000 MW or more. It is like comparing a RC controlled model airplane with a 747. Besides being bigger, the 747 and the power plant will have much more elaborate systems to protect things from damage and destruction caused by malfunctioning equipment and/or misbehaving control systems. When there are billions of dollars and /or human lives at stake, one invests more in safeguards such as electromechanical relays, breakers and other non digital gadgets.

    The thing that could cause the generator to jump and destroy itself like in the video is to attempt to synchronize it with the grid out of phase or at the wrong speed. Another post in this thread, "This has happened before computer controls" by Maximum Prophet hit on the correct answer. In small, unattended, backup generators synchronization may be automated by computer, but in large power plants nobody trusts the computer enough to allow this critical operation to be automated. It is still typically done by hand with the aid of old fashioned non-digital equipment. Even if one did mis-synchronize a generator (and it does happen) other protective devices shut things down quickly to limit the scope of damage. And yes, mis-synchronization does happen in real life every once in a while, usually in a brand new installation and usually because the instruments are wired up wrong. The result can be damage sometimes, but I never heard of it destroying a whole plant.

    That is not to say that cyberwar is not a threat, nor to say that it is not good policy to isolate all critical control computer from the net. Again its a matter of money. If you are running a $5 billion power plant, your budget is big enough to hire real people to come and maintain systems rather than using remote diagnostics. Or, if you do want remote diagnostics, you can afford to use leased private lines rather than the internet. Power plants and the power grid can afford gold standard security and they should be required to do it. I don't oppose the security thrust, but I do oppose the hyped up scare tactics designed to panic us into unwise government spending.

    I spent most of my life modeling power plants and their control systems to build operator training simulators. As part of training, we inject myriads of simulated malfunctions. As part of debugging of the models, we get to see just about every detail of the plant and its control and its safeguards working incorrectly before we debug them and make them correct. That gave me and others experiences up to our chinny chin chins about what can go wrong and what the consequences might be.

    I'm afraid that what this is about is another naked grab for government money and using scare tactics to get it. Mr. Joe Weiss in the video works for EPRI. He, and the government committee on critical infrastructure protection, were both singing the song in 1999 that no matter what Y2K bugs might exist, they couldn't do any real harm. Get it? Not that the Y2K bugs didn't exist or would be fixed (at proved to be the case) but that they couldn't do any substantial harm no matter what. Now these same people are saying that a few hacks can cause widespread and catastrophic damage. One can not argue both sides of this issue and keep credibility. If a control system misbehaves, it matters not whether the problem is inadvertent or malevolent. Yet these people pooh pooh the risk of inadvertent bugs yet hype the danger of malevolent ones. It's bunk.

    EPRI wants $100 billion to automate everything in the power grid as a massive research project. Next they'll want another $250 billion to secure it from cyberwar threats. DOE wants a national DOE control center for the

    1. Re:It is mostly bunk by wawannem · · Score: 4, Funny

      whereas big power plant generators are 1000 MW or more.

      Heh... that's it? I once heard of a professor somewhere that was able to build a portable generator, small enough to fit in the rear half of a small car, capable of outputting 1,210 MW...
    2. Re:It is mostly bunk by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nonsense. Do you understand what the output of such a generator would be?

      I believe it is very high voltage with not-so-much current. Well over 100,000 volts.

      The separation between the output terminals would be larger than the space occupied by the car.

      OK, what if I'm wrong and it is lots and lots of current. At 1200MW the output current would require something that isn't going to fit in a car to connect to the output terminals.

      Either way, it isn't fitting in the space of a car. Not even an Excursion.

    3. Re:It is mostly bunk by wawannem · · Score: 1

      whereas big power plant generators are 1000 MW or more.

      Heh... that's it? I once heard of a professor somewhere that was able to build a portable generator, small enough to fit in the rear half of a small car, capable of outputting 1,210 MW...

      Nonsense. Do you understand what the output of such a generator would be?

      I believe it is very high voltage with not-so-much current. Well over 100,000 volts.

      The separation between the output terminals would be larger than the space occupied by the car.

      OK, what if I'm wrong and it is lots and lots of current. At 1200MW the output current would require something that isn't going to fit in a car to connect to the output terminals.

      Either way, it isn't fitting in the space of a car. Not even an Excursion.
      Okay, come on, are you kidding me?! You really didn't get it? It could be one of the most popular movies of the 80s! It sort of ruins the punchline when you take it serious. BTW, I revoke your nerd card. Maybe you can earn it back if you go rent the movie.
    4. Re:It is mostly bunk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apart from having missed the joke, you should realise that ratings in watts can be very misleading. For example, I have a device that can fit in a pocket which operates at around 12 kilowatts. Sounds impressive, but it only has that output for around 1 millisecond and then has to recharge, which takes several seconds. The device is a common photoflash unit...the capacitor stores around 12 joules, which is discharged into the flash tube in about 1 millisecond. So the rate of power transfer is very high, but the total power transferred is not all that high.

      I suspect that something similar occurs with the de Lorean indirectly referred to in the GP. The actual time displacement requires an energy transfer at the rate of 1.21 GigaWatts, however this transfer does not occcur for a very long time (and how do you measure time when you are time travelling ????) If it did it would vapourise the car anyway. Presumably the energy source is used to charge the flux capacitor, which then discharges quickly.....

    5. Re:It is mostly bunk by Dr.Who · · Score: 1

      Mr. Joseph M. Weiss does not work directly for EPRI any more. A web search shows that he has worked for at least two consulting companies that provide a services for power companies.

      EPRI used to be funded by power companies paying EPRI for research for the common good. Deregulation forced many of those companies to decrease the outlay of money for ouside research. That resulted in a reduced role for EPRI, and a decrease in the staff levels.

      The demonstration was likely scripted for the intended audience that understands smoke and vibration and does not understand other failures that might be more subtle. Recent unplanned events have shown that small disturbances on the power grid can cause fairly widespread disruptions and actual equpment damage.

      As another poster noted, the generator shown is the type used to provide emergency/startup power to a generating facility so that the rest of the facility can run. Operating Cycle is probably some non-technical translation of phase angle, mixture, coolant flow safety interlock or some other manipulated or controlled variable.

      The Y2K project was about:

      • inventory
      • risk assessment
      • project management
      • information sharing (for efficient activites in the other areas)
      Lots of things were replaced or upgraded (urban renual) because it was cheaper than doing a complete risk assessment. The legacy of the Y2K projects was that the mitigation of risk made the systems very resiliant to the 9/11 attacks. Many single points of failure had already been hardened, backed-up, and distributed away from major metropolitan centers.
    6. Re:It is mostly bunk by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      >One can not argue both sides of this issue and keep credibility. If a control system misbehaves, it matters not whether the problem is inadvertent or malevolent.

      An ingenious attacker can come up with tricks that a Y2K bug could never think of.

      Consider the difference between a plain crash and a buffer overflow exploit.

      Which still leaves room for your skepticism.

  48. Don't Use The Internet For This by maz2331 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whatever the reason's given for connecting any critical infrastructure to the public Internet, it is far too risky of a proposition to seriously consider it. They absolutely should be using private WANs, preferably encrypted eight ways to Sunday.

    There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for making this equipment accessable from the public Internet. None. Zero. Zilch.

    Frame Relay T1 lines are cheap nowadays, and they should be using them.

  49. Re:Heard of this before - Self Destructing Printer by djh101010 · · Score: 1

    As an undergrad, a fellow student told me about a certain kind of old heavy duty line-printer for mainframe batch processing. It had a hammer for every single character position and a curculating belt with the entire printable character set repeated. A hammer would fire whenever a character coincided with the hammer in the right position.
    These aren't _that_ old, I was supporting these printers back in production as recently as 1989.

    Oh crap, now I've made _myself_ feel old.
  50. Why this was released... by Kiralan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My (paranoid?) suspicions are: 1. DHS produced this FUD/PhotoOp (remember, it is CNN) to justify their funding. Their current terrorist prevention accomplishments are in the category of 'See any elephants/terrorists? No? Must mean our elephant/terrorist repellent works' 2. Showing a terrorist target that 'hits closer to home' (no pun intended) for Joe/Jane citizen 3. A reason to let them monitor everything they can on the internet. Their justification would be 'If we see them trying to get in, we can find and stop them.' Seems that a proper firewall / VPN setup would be required/more useful K

    --
    V for Vendetta: People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
  51. Not just that... by phorm · · Score: 1

    But chances are they also have lots of monitoring (local and remote) systems that would send a message out to external person(s) in the event that something unusual/bad started happening.

  52. while we're at it by wytcld · · Score: 1

    A former Navy officer tells me of hiring an outside team to test the security of new software for controlling the firing of missiles from a ship. Within a couple of days, they were able to demonstrate to him that they could remotely fire the missiles, but were not able to access the targeting control. I mention this publicly because the officer was able to go back to the major defense firm providing the hackable software and demand revisions to their product. This particular software is not, we can presume, presently installed in our Navy.

    But the outside team he'd used was getting into that ship's system from the Internet. This was a few years back. We can hope that's no longer possible.

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  53. Re:Heard of this before - Self Destructing Printer by somersault · · Score: 1

    Heh, I read that as "If I had a hammer for every single character position and a curculating belt with the entire printable character set repeated". Not quite as catchy as the original hammer song..

    --
    which is totally what she said
  54. Anyone worry... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... about the fact that one of the guys mentioned in TFA is named Borg?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  55. Re:Bruce Willis will prevent this from ever happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, if they wanted geek viewers they should have named it Live Free or Bitch on Slashdot

  56. Afraid there's not much left. by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

    I didn't hit it that hard- it must have had a self-destruct

  57. Might I be the first to mention... by Cillian · · Score: 1
    --
    -- All your booze are belong to us.
  58. Re:Bruce Willis will prevent this from ever happen by fkamogee · · Score: 1

    No, season four of 24.

  59. Ummm...yeah. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Hack a nuclear reactor so it melts down?

    Ok, maybe reprogramming a weather satellite [i]to control the weather[/i] is only 99.9% impossible.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  60. Easy to blow up a generator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Place a tool, preferrably metal on both ends, connecting two of the three phases of the generator. All you have to do is remotely start it up and the tool will be vaporized when the power goes phase to phase. Just sit back and watch the sparks fly.

  61. QUICK! CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD - IRAN HAS IT! by denzacar · · Score: 0

    Pointless FUD...

    Did anyone watch this video at all? http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/09/27/meserve.power.at.risk.cnn

    They have connected the generator or its controlling software/hardware combo to the internet and then they have run a fake "cyber-attack" (If they only knew...) to make it go PUF!

    And then... They start to waive the red "What if..." flags.

    What if this happened on the large scale? To a huge part of the country for months, mind you... "Huge part" and "for months".
    By day three stores run out of food and emergency generators out of gas.

    I guess that the main idea is that all of those electrical engineers are twiddling their thumbs during that time?

    Here is a "What if..."
    What if all of a sudden "the leaders and innovators of industry in the world start to disappear"? This could mean the end of the civilisation as we know it.
    I think that there might be book in there somewhere... hmm...

    Further on... "After 10 days with no hope of power being restored..."... Video goes on to babble about no emergency services, fuel, and even NO WHERE TO EVACUATE!!!

    Like... when did I miss the news of the large part of US being held in the air above Atlantic Ocean by use of force fields/tractor beams connected to generators, which are connected to the internet?
    And, has the modern civilisation really become SO fragile that 10 days without TV and internet porn will cause immediate collapse of society?

    And Joe Weiss (of Applied Control Solutions) is A FUCKING IDIOT!
    Besides the fact that he assumes (very possible as he says) that Iran has NOT SIMILAR but SAME "systems", people there "absolutely" know how to run them, and "absolutely" know how to bring them down - he goes on to claim that they also have the SAME PASSWORDS!!!

    Well damn... Here - I have the solution.

    First - STOP CONNECTING CRITICAL SYSTEMS TO THE INTERNET!!!
    Second - CHANGE YOUR GOD DAMN PASSWORD!!!!

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:QUICK! CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD - IRAN HAS IT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Second - CHANGE YOUR GOD DAMN PASSWORD!!!!

      I can't - my voice is my passport.

      Sincerely,
      Werner Brandes

    2. Re:QUICK! CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD - IRAN HAS IT! by denzacar · · Score: 0

      You mean..

      Hi.. name Is Werner... Brandes. my.. voice! is. my.. passport? verify Me..

      Well... it could be worse... you could have used: COOTY RATS SEMEN as your password.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  62. Ever heard of "REDUNDANCY"? by mangu · · Score: 1
    There are many ways to damage a generator if you understand what causes it to trip from the system. Delaying the disconnect from the power grid, for even a short amount of time can cause substantial damage.


    I worked as an electrical engineer for a power company for five years. Once, out of curiosity, I started counting the different redundant protection systems around a 180MW generator. I found a total of 49 different circuits, any one of which would be sufficient to trip a circuit breaker in less than 10 milliseconds. The circuit breakers themselves were redundant, in the substation layout there were three different breakers protecting that generator, any one of them tripping would disconnect the current.


    And, since you mentioned synchronization, I once saw a failure report for a different power station in the same company. A maintenance technician had made a mistake in connecting the synchronoscope, so it indicated the phase difference with an error of 180 degrees. The first time the operator tried to synchronize that machine, the breaker tripped immediately after being closed.


    Let's face it, power stations are designed by engineers who not only have heard about any anecdote you may know, but they also are technically trained and have years to consider all the possible consequences of design errors. Snafus happen, of course, but not with trivial matters such as disconnecting a breaker when an overload occurs.

    1. Re:Ever heard of "REDUNDANCY"? by orgelspieler · · Score: 1
      Did nobody go out there with hot sticks to verify the polarity and phase rotation?!?!? On the plants I used to work with (50 MW GTGs), there was only one time I heard of (before my time) where somebody hooked the PTs up wrong and nobody caught it. I think it was the phase rotation, rather than being 180 out. They said the whole genset tore loose of the pedestal and sent parts flying everywhere.

      Although many people have heard many anecdotes, it's still possible to encounter new problems. We had one issue with single pole breaker failure that nobody had seen before. I'm trying to remember how we addressed it. I think we backed up the 50BF with an additional trip from the 59N or something bizarre like that. Never had that failure mode again, so I don't know for sure if it actually worked.

  63. "The power grid is not stable"? by mangu · · Score: 1
    JACK: It's urgent! the power-grid is not stable, if you don't do this, we'll have New York in the dark!


    As someone who has gone through a post-graduate course called "Power System Dynamics and Automatic Generation Control", I can assure you that the first thing Joe would do would be to ask the Engineer (I mean the kind that has a university Engineering degree) in his company to check this.


    All the phone lines connected to power control systems are recorded 24/7 in tapes that are never erased, because the conversation often runs like "Hi, Joe, this is Jack, I need an extra 100MW tonight". Look in you power bill how much a kilowatt costs, multiply it by 100000 and you'll understand why the operators in charge of power stations are so closely monitored.

  64. !Not possible by mbstone · · Score: 1

    Hi! I'm the cyber security consultant from Unisys! We're doing a test....

  65. That's what I call security... by Adamsmasher23 · · Score: 1

    Persons at manufacturing plants overseas have access to control system schematics and even software program passwords, industry experts say. Don't they change the passwords?!
  66. genius. by azrin_abbas · · Score: 1

    i always consider researchers to be geniuses. they can actually find something like this, put up a demo, staged experiment or something and just tell the public( which also includes potential attackers) all about it. genius.

    --
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
  67. Oh, great! by Chili-71 · · Score: 1

    Oh, great. Here's another potential terriost act that we openly advertise to would be terriost. "Hey, guys, have you thought of this one?"

  68. Apply IT code of conduct by TT077129 · · Score: 1

    Actually by doing this Aurora project can cause injury to the public. But if the project team can apply IT code of conduct in this project, i think this project can give many benefits to public, organization, and project team itself. Below is the several benefits if the Aurora project can apply IT Code of conduct: 1) Can void harm to public 2) Can ensure the good management in the project 3) Can show profesionalism of the organization