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US Scientist Creates Artificial Life

Joshocar writes "The sometimes-controversial US scientist Craig Venter has announced that he has created artificial life. Venter stated that it is 'a very important philosophical step in the history of our species ... We are going from reading our genetic code to the ability to write it. That gives us the hypothetical ability to do things never contemplated before.' In the lab, Venter was able to construct and write genetic code from laboratory chemicals. The next step is to insert this code into a cell, which has already been demonstrated in the past. This ability to write genetic code could result in new ways to combat global warming and new drugs, but it could also lead to new bio-weapons."

253 comments

  1. He looked down on his creating and... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... saw that it was a "frist!" poster :(

  2. Hello... by Chairboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    So what exactly does 'Hello world' look like in DNA?

    AGTCA
            TCGCT "WORLD"
    ?

    1. Re:Hello... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 5, Funny

      At least it is easier to read than Perl.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      We have gone from fscanf() to fprintf(), so I guess it would look like:

      char str[] = "Hello World\n";
      FILE * out;
      if(out=fopen("/dev/chromosome", "w")) fprintf(out,str);


      Apparently it is up to the operating system implementation to provide real time conversions to DNA code bocks from the file stream.

    3. Re:Hello... by edflyerssn007 · · Score: 1

      Or it proves in some kind of twisted way that life needs to be designed. Or in this case, refactored, as it appears all they did was remove the portions of the DNA not needed for sustaining life.

      -Ed

      --
      So you see what had happened was....
    4. Re:Hello... by pla · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Apparently it is up to the operating system implementation to provide real time conversions to DNA code bocks from the file stream.

      Humorous or not, I consider this one of the most insightful comments I've read on Slashdot in quite a long time. If you hadn't posted as AC, I even have mod points at the moment, but, so it goes.

      Kudos!

    5. Re:Hello... by TarPitt · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think that particular nucleic acid sequence translates to:

      "All your base are belong to us"

      --
      If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
    6. Re:Hello... by unMasqre · · Score: 1

      TATA might be more accurate than AGTCA for "hello". the "TATA" box is largely recognized as an indicator that gene transcription it about to start. as for "world"? hm, it would probably be everything else in the genome :)

    7. Re:Hello... by Assassin+bug · · Score: 1

      I agree. Maybe "Hello World!" in gene-speak would be "TATA{nnn}!"

    8. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It only proves that things that can happen arbitrarily can be made to happen intently by a computer[1] with sufficient information about the process[2] and sufficient means of interaction[3].

      [1] Computer in this sense simply refers to something capable of computation, such as a human.
      [2] Let's hear it for the efficiency of the scientific method.
      [3] Humans rawk. Hunting primates for the win.

    9. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using amino acid shorthands, and substituting Q for O, how about making a protein out of it?
      E.g. ATG CAT ATT TGG CAA CGT TTA GAT TAG , which works out to start - H-I-W-Q-R-L-D - stop.
      For bonus points, make the words exons and use introns for spaces.
      (IANAG, I just take bioinformatics for fun.)

    10. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It is only 4 letters. Has anyone thought that perhaps DNA code is actually similar to Brainfuck? Here is the Hello World program in Brainfuck.

      Brainfuck has six commands: '+', '-', '[', '.', '>', and '<' while DNA only has four codes. Perhaps '+', '-', '[', '.', '>', and '<' can be coded as aa, gg, cc, tt, ag, and ac. Then the code would be:

      aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaccagaaaaaaaa
      aaaaaaagaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaagaa
      aaaaagaaacacacac ggccagaaaattagaa
      ttaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ttttaaaaaattagaa
      aattacacaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
      aaaaaattagttaaaa aattgggggggggggg
      ttgggggggggggggg ggttagaattagtt

    11. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      You forgot uracil.

      "A fifth pyrimidine base, called uracil (U), usually takes the place of thymine in RNA and differs from thymine by lacking a methyl group on its ring. Uracil is not usually found in DNA, occurring only as a breakdown product of cytosine, but a very rare exception to this rule is a bacterial virus called PBS1 that contains uracil in its DNA." Wikipedia

      And we are talking bacteria here.

    12. Re:Hello... by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 1

      The boys are all ready
      They've laid out the plans
      They're setting the stage
      For the man-made man
      We've worked out the kinks
      In your DNA
      So sayonara, kid
      Have a nice day

      -Warren Zevon, "Sacrificial Lambs"

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
    13. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my $idiot = 'MyLongNickName';
      my @idiot_speaks = ( 'nonsense', 'stupidity', 'At least it is easier to read than Perl.' );
      foreach ( @idiot_speaks ) {
          warn 'jackass!';
      }

    14. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fprintf(out, "%s", str);, please

    15. Re:Hello... by iogan · · Score: 1

      Surely you are talking about Java?

      Perl is about the easiest to read (programming) language there is...

    16. Re:Hello... by jWasInGermany · · Score: 1

      Does not execute. Can anybody debug this? ./idiot.pl ./idiot.pl: line 2: my: command not found ./idiot.pl: line 3: syntax error near unexpected token `(' ./idiot.pl: line 3: `my @idiot_speaks = ( 'nonsense', 'stupidity', 'At least it is easier to read than Perl.' );'

    17. Re:Hello... by TobiasTheCommie · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      so you are not gonna mod just because he is AC?

      how inane

      --
      Tobias Ussing http://www.nearby.dk
    18. Re:Hello... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perl is about the easiest to read (programming) language there is...

      But isn't Perl a scripting lan....

      Ow! Stop! That hurts! Not the face! Not the face!

    19. Re:Hello... by dedalus2000 · · Score: 1

      correction that should be "All your base pairs are belong to us"

      --
      My keyboads not woking popely.
  3. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Craig Venter is playing God! How dare he?!

    Life can only be created by our Lord.

    This is worse than stem cell research!

    I'm calling George W. Bush about this tomorrow. Do you think the executive branch could put through to ban the creation of Life except by God? Those activist judges legislating form the bench might call it unconstitutional, but Justice Scalia has our back.

    Very Truely Yours,
    Bob Dole
    --
    Write in George W. Bush. Never switch presidents in a war!

  4. Life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Patent Pending.

    1. Re:Life... by suv4x4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Patent Pending.

      Interesting question. If a genetic sequence is invented and patented by scientist, could a natural mutation in a human being leading to the same sequence lead to patent infringement?

      I guess the answer is pending, and so is the patent reform to shape it.

    2. Re:Life... by AgentPaper · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Already a problem in farming, where unintentional pollination of non-GE crops by GE varieties results in the non-GE farmer losing his/her shirt to lawsuits by Monsanto et al. The "patent reform" we have on hand is completely biased toward the biotech companies. It used to be that the non-GE farmer could claim unintentional pollination as a defense; now the farmer is liable regardless of how the genes got into his/her field. I can only imagine the fallout when we start patenting human genetic sequences. Will people have to buy their children now?

      --
      First rule of trauma: Bleeding always stops.
    3. Re:Life... by yuriks · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, we will create deadly killers to end the lawyer menace once and for all. I really mean it.

    4. Re:Life... by E++99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd have to say yes. Maybe one day it will be necessary for celebrities to patent their genomes so people don't make unauthorized clones of them for fun and profit.

    5. Re:Life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd have to say yes. Maybe one day it will be necessary for celebrities to patent their genomes so people don't make unauthorized clones of them for fun and profit. They can't patent their genomes, but they could copyright them. I plan to patent the method of pouring hot grits on a naked and petrified clone of Natalie Portman. Theoretically she could sue me for violating her copyright on her genome, but I think a fair use defense would be valid since it would be very educational! And then if she decides to pour the hot grits on herself, I could sue her for royalties--though I'm willing to waive those if she lets me watch.
    6. Re:Life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't read science fictions, but if it's not already written, I would like to see a story about some mad scientists who create psychopathic lawyers-killing life-forms. The moral implications would be:
      1. Do artificial life-forms have rights?
      2. Who is responsible for the actions of artificially created life-forms?
      3. Should something get punished or rewarded for killing a lawyer?

    7. Re:Life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you should check out http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ web-comic, the crew gets to kill lawyer drones of the partnership collective, gets paid even.

      In the comic:
      1. Yes
      2. Their bosses(?)
      3. Rewarded if under contract, punished otherwise. :)

  5. How long until the neoterics emerge? by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    I for one would welcome our high speed lizard overlords.

    1. Re:How long until the neoterics emerge? by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      Make that our severe diarrhea overlords.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    2. Re:How long until the neoterics emerge? by cyberstealth1024 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I for one would welcome our high speed lizard overlords. ...i hope they're faster than DSL...
  6. There are few more steps by suv4x4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We are going from reading our genetic code to the ability to write it. That gives us the hypothetical ability to do things never contemplated before.

    So ok, first 3 steps were:

    1. figure out there's such a thing as "genetic code"
    2. read genetic code
    3. write genetic code

    There are two more steps:

    4. write some genetic code that results in something sensible
    5. write some genetic code that results in something sensible, and that's useful for us

    Arguably steps 4 and 5 are the hardest possible steps for us to conquer :) At some point I suspect scientists will realize it's impossible to keep tinkering at things on the gene-by-gene level.

    We'll see "genetic frameworks" with reusable piece that have well known behavior, and genetical development kits that simulate assemblies' features and behavior much faster than doing full-blown atom-by-atom simulation.

    Genetical programming will be born :)

    But, oh damn, forget my wild dreams, back to Earth: let's make some drugs and bio-weapons!

    1. Re:There are few more steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      6. ???

      7. Profit!

    2. Re:There are few more steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit? Genetic engineering programmers might learn to create high level genetic languages, so they can implement, use, and re-use functions? Holy fuck!

      I just hope my code was compiled with gcc (that is, the Genome Chromosome Compiler), and not in Visual Genetics Basic, dummies edition.

    3. Re:There are few more steps by webmaster404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just hope the code is GPL'd

      --
      There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
    4. Re:There are few more steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's GNU/Bio Weapons to you!

    5. Re:There are few more steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are going from reading our genetic code to the ability to write it. That gives us the hypothetical ability to do things never contemplated before.

      So ok, first 3 steps were:

      1. figure out there's such a thing as "genetic code"
      2. read genetic code
      3. write genetic code

      There are two more steps:

      4. write some genetic code that results in something sensible
      5. write some genetic code that results in something sensible, and that's useful for us


      The problem is that we will probably write something during steps 3 or 4 that will kill us all before we ever get to step 5.
    6. Re:There are few more steps by billster0808 · · Score: 1

      I can see it already, "This code requires Microsoft .Life Framework 2.0"

    7. Re:There are few more steps by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      Arguably steps 4 and 5 are the hardest possible steps for us to conquer :) At some point I suspect scientists will realize it's impossible to keep tinkering at things on the gene-by-gene level.
      ________

      They'll use Borland Gene Builder by then.

    8. Re:There are few more steps by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      I think we should call it a Triffid. What could possibly go wrong?

    9. Re:There are few more steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because the ability to wipe out the human species is a brand new concept that we will foolishly not be able to control! It's not 50 years old at all!

    10. Re:There are few more steps by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 1

      Absolutely... Geneticists are doing the equivalent of machine code editing these days. What they need is some sort of equivalent to GW-BASIC or ALGOL! I'd even go out on a limb and say that maybe something like COBOL would be called for. Like they say, a computer without COBOL and Fortran is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard.

  7. Monsters have family by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait.. so if this was just discovered recently, the monsters that have been living under my bed all my life must have a family! I haven't felt sorry for them until now.

  8. Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Venter was able to construct and write genetic code from laboratory chemicals. The next step is to insert this code into a cell, which has already been demonstrated in the past.

    None of the above is creating "artificial life". DNA is the life created by someone or something else. Inserting a DNA into a cell is not creating "artificial life". The cell is already a life -- it is the life created by someone or something else. He only modifies the life. He didn't create it.

    1. Re:Grossly misleading by HateBreeder · · Score: 1

      Exactly my thoughts,

      Call me when they create the cell to which the artificially created DNA will be inserted to, from scratch.

      --
      Sigs are for the weak.
    2. Re:Grossly misleading by mc+moss · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think a bigger challenge for scientists is for them to insert their DNA into a cell naturally made by women

    3. Re:Grossly misleading by suv4x4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Call me when they create the cell to which the artificially created DNA will be inserted to, from scratch.

      You'll be waiting for this call forever. The structure even of a single cell is immensely complex. I mean, we share over 50% DNA with *plants*. Half of our DNA is just the "core OS" for running a live organism. It's not a small thing.

      Scientists won't start building cells from scratch, they'll just tweak existing ones more and more while they understand the exact mechanisms completely.

      You'll be long dead before we see fully artificial, rebuilt from scratch cells.

      I gotta ask you though. What % of code rewrite would you accept on an existing organism, before you call it artificial life.

      1%? That amount of changes could turn a monkey into man, or man into monkey.

      5%? They could start with a cat, and end with a dolphin.

      Name your numbers.

    4. Re:Grossly misleading by HateBreeder · · Score: 1

      Not saying that modifying existing cells and DNA isn't useful (on the contrary).

      But you can't claim you've "Created Life" by modifying an existing instance.

      --
      Sigs are for the weak.
    5. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From an engineering POW this is as artificial as it will get. All cell mechanisms and structures can be modified by inserting artificially made genes into natural cells. It may require a few generations (like bootstrapping a compiler) but it should not require the scientists to begin the process from non-living materials. This may not hold if the artificial cell must be very different (like using a new genetic encoding scheme or non-carbon based chemistry) but that is beyond horizon right now.

    6. Re:Grossly misleading by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But you can't claim you've "Created Life" by modifying an existing instance.

      So did Netscape or the Mozilla Foundation "create" FireFox 2? ;-)



      I agree, we haven't reached the point where we can fairly call it "created life". But this one step, more than anything since Pasteur, represents a major step forward. The ability to invoke a breakpoint on a running cell, replace its code with a custom gene sequence, and continue execution, means we can now probe the rest of the cellular machinery with unprecedented efficiency.

      The GP's point aside, I think this one step means we'll see a fully artificial cell within a decade or two - Certainly within our lifetimes... Presuming, of course, that the military doesn't create and release (accidentally or deliberately doesn't matter) the "perfect bug" before then.

    7. Re:Grossly misleading by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      Indeed it's a fork :)

      And it has good potential for harm. But that is true for any new tech and it's always been this way.

      Anyway the more we advance in this field, the more apparent will be the abyss that separates us from $DEITY's realm. Virtual artificial life, where somebody devises a set of rules for a virtual world that ends up with entities of such world being self-aware (for some definitions of awareness), would be quite more useful from a philosophical POV than these experiments, but this might help as a step.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    8. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Everybody gets hung up on "life" as if it's something so fundamental, but really it's by definition nothing more than a set of characteristics (ability to reproduce, etc, etc).

      Do you consider a virus to be alive? It's a borderline case, but some people at least would say yes.

      The Polio virus has already been synthesized from scratch from raw chemicals - feed chemicals into a machine and get a virus out the other end. No need to sprinkle any magic "life" pixie dust on it.

    9. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Do you create your Turing machines from scratch before creating programs?
      The cell structure is being used as a factory for bootstrapping an organism from artificial DNA.
      Once we're capable of producing cells from scratch, are we then going to start demanding that we create our own atoms from scratch before we pat ourselves on the back for creating artificial lifeforms?

    10. Re:Grossly misleading by Alexandra+Erenhart · · Score: 1

      I have the impression that by now, most scientist find the "normal" breeding system way not challenging.

    11. Re:Grossly misleading by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think that it will be possible in near future to create environment to 'bootstrap' protein synthesis from DNA without a living cell. That way we'll be able to truly create a new life from scratch.

      Actually, there's some work on artificial ribosomes. So it may happen even faster I think...

    12. Re:Grossly misleading by justin12345 · · Score: 3, Funny

      whoosh!

      --
      Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
    13. Re:Grossly misleading by E++99 · · Score: 1
      Everybody gets hung up on "life" as if it's something so fundamental, but really it's by definition nothing more than a set of characteristics (ability to reproduce, etc, etc).
      That's because life IS a fundamental, real thing -- not merely a set of characteristics.

      Do you consider a virus to be alive? It's a borderline case, but some people at least would say yes.

      There is no sensible definition of life that would include viruses.
    14. Re:Grossly misleading by Hadji · · Score: 0

      But neither one of them created the browser, did they? Sure, they created a new browser by building on old ones, but they didn't create a browser from scratch.

      When some people hear that someone else has "created artificial life", this phrase implies that they are not building on existing life. If it has been phrased such as "created a new life form" or something along that line, then your point would apply.

    15. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      emerge life

    16. Re:Grossly misleading by ultranova · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think a bigger challenge for scientists is for them to insert their DNA into a cell naturally made by women

      Well, just why do you think the scientists are so hell-bent on creating artificial life to their specifications, mechanical or biological ?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    17. Re:Grossly misleading by orangesquid · · Score: 1

      Here's my (mostly uninformed) opinion:

      Humans are only 'alive' in the sense that they require hundreds of supporting organisms and a very specific environment with many specific characteristics in order to complete the necessary criteria to be called a living organism. In this sense, a virus could definitely be a part of a 'living organism,' thought it wouldn't be a critical component, unless the virus was necessary to keep the organism's growth and/or reproduction rates in check.

      The simplest case of 'living organism' would perhaps be a bacterium that needs only sunlight (or a stream of charged particles, or a rotating magnetic field whose rotation is held constant by input of external energy whenever its energy/momentum is taken up by the living organism, or an electric field whose energy is held constant by its generating source whenever energy is removed, etc.; in other words, a steady supply of energy) and lives in perfect stasis with its environment other than giving off excess heat; in other words, death rate is exactly growth rate, and the resources taken from the environment, when eventually returned to it, are in the same form and same proportions, have not created any byproducts, and have not 'used up' any chemicals (that are not also simultaneously being output in the same quantity). In other words, a self-contained machine that needs only a constant supply of energy to perpetuate its own internal energy level (body temperature) while continuously rebuilding its own components and having the ability to adapt to modifications in the amount of resources available in the environment (give it a bigger biosphere, the population grows and hits a new steady-state value; take away a portion of the biosphere, the population shrinks and hits a new steady-state value).

      An organism does not generally stand alone. We've already created little globes that can sit out in orbit absorbing photons and giving off heat, living in stasis, containing a miniature biosphere with a handful of interdependent organisms; that's one (very different, occuring at a different level) form of creation of artifical life (by designing a new biosphere that it stable by itself) by modifying some existing natural biosphere, usually by reducing it to only its critical components.

      If we can design a self-replicating molecule that can live in a sea of ammonia (for example), and reaches a population stasis by not exceeding a certain concentration relative to within the sea, that would be another example of artifical life. (Energy input could be by photon bombardment, and the 'death' of the self-replicating molecule should be considered its occasional breakdown from the photon bombardment and/or breakdown when the available ammonia (in ratio to the population) is too low.

      (Hoping this doesn't sound like a troll nor flamebait!)

      --
      --TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
    18. Re:Grossly misleading by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Everybody gets hung up on "life" as if it's something so fundamental, but really it's by definition nothing more than a set of characteristics (ability to reproduce, etc, etc).

      All fundamental particles are just a sets of characteristics. If it has certain characteristics, it's a photon, if another, it's a proton, yet another, it's an electron. The same is true of everything formed from them. You, for example, have a set of characteristics: your skin color, shape, hair color, eye color, tendency to post to SLashdot...

      Or to put it in another way, "by definition nothing more than a set of characteristics" is an oxymoron. It is true of absolutely every definition, by the definition of definition :).

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    19. Re:Grossly misleading by HexaByte · · Score: 1
      So here's the obligatory: Scientist to God, "We can now create life, we no longer need you!"

      God: "Okay, lets have a contest."

      Scientist reaches for some dirt... God: "Oh No! You go make your own dirt!"

      Replicating a complex acid (the A in DNA) is NOT creating life.

      --
      HexaByte - he's a square and a half!
    20. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      ....I think a bigger challenge for scientists is for them to insert their DNA into a cell naturally made by women......

      A bigger challenge yet is to make some DNA from a rock and inject that into another rock, which then comes alive. That's what evolutionists claim happened originally, billions of years ago when minerals washed down from the rocky land into the "prebiotic soup" of warm seas. The claim is made in science textbooks, that this is where life "evolved", all on its own, without an intelligent scientist messing around.

      --
      All theory is gray
    21. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 2, Informative

      ....The Polio virus has already been synthesized from scratch from raw chemicals......

      That is pure, unadulterated BS, a bald faced lie. NOBODY has ever made even a virus from all non-living components. They have taken chemicals that originated from life and combined these to make other chemicals which some have called life. To truly make life, ALL parts thereof MUST come from chemicals that were never produced by anything that was previously alive.

      The definition of life is not clear cut. At minimum to be called alive, an organism must be able to reproduce itself and at some level at least, be self-repairing if damaged. Viruses do meet these two specs.

      Nobody has ever demonstrated life coming from non-life.

      --
      All theory is gray
    22. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear some scientists believe that stars, planets, and even galaxies form through naturally-occurring processes. Pfft, we know better, right?! Let's see those scientists create galaxies, lOLOLOLOol1. God did it, am I right or what?

    23. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 2, Informative
    24. Re:Grossly misleading by SpectreBlofeld · · Score: 1

      "That's because life IS a fundamental, real thing -- not merely a set of characteristics." You know, usually, when you make a statement like that, you're expected to follow it up with supporting arguments. Just sayin'.

    25. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "To construct the virus, the researchers say they followed a recipe they downloaded from the internet and used gene sequences from a mail-order supplier."

      They did not create the virus from "scratch" (non-biological sources). They used provided gene sequences. These gene sequences were almost certainly obtained from other viruses.

    26. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....Sorry to break your bubble.....

      You did not read what I wrote. What these guys did was like building a computer from pre-made parts, like a disk drive, motherboard, memory chips, CPU etc. That isn't building a computer from scratch. It's only an assembly job.

      To make a computer from scratch you mine the silicon, aluminum and copper ores etc. and then you build the computer. You also have to write ALL its software. You may not enlist the help of Bill, Steve or Linus.

      --
      All theory is gray
    27. Re:Grossly misleading by hab136 · · Score: 1

      That isn't building a computer from scratch. It's only an assembly job.

      Then nobody has ever built a computer from scratch using your definition. IBM and Dell don't mine copper or silicon. Even the earliest computers used purchased copper, not copper ore (or mining rights to copper ore!).

      The article is talking about causing life to exist where there was none - taking non-living chemicals and making a living being, instead of the normal process of a living being being created by another living being. After that step has been achieved, then people can start to wholly design a living being from scratch like you're talking about, instead of making knock-offs.
    28. Re:Grossly misleading by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      A virus is 'life as we know it' yet requires a cell to duplicate.
      The DNA that he's using is constructed on a pattern. It is not using elements of 'live' DNA.
      So in effect, he is creating artificial life.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    29. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spot on...he didn't create life. There is only One that creates life.

    30. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      They used provided gene sequences. These gene sequences were almost certainly obtained from other viruses.

      Not at all - these mail-order gene sequence shops are synthesizing them:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/technology/techspecial/12gene.html?ref=techspecial

    31. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      Sure it's just an assembly job, but in your original post you were claiming that it had been made from living parts (whatever that might mean), whereas in fact the assembly of this virus was from synthesized components (raw chemicals). The mail order gene sequences are synthesized:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/technology/techspecial/12gene.html?ref=techspecial

    32. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      Not quite sure what you mean by that... Would you accept that anything that has all the attributes of life is alive, or are you only going to accept it as alive if it occured in nature? Do you consider a lab-made Polio virus assembled from raw chemicals as any different from a nature made Polio virus (both are chemically identical)?

      Here we have Venter synthesizing the DNA of his new species Mycoplasma laboratorium, and people are complaining that he didn't make the cell that he's putting this synthesized and custom designed DNA into(he's conducted many gene knock-out experiments to decide which genes he needs and which he doesn't). Eventually someone will create an artificial cell (just more chemistry) to put it into, and at that point any rational person would have to accept that a living thing had been totally made from raw chemicals (vs Venter's current creation only partly lab made), and that's what I mean by it not being anything fundamental. Life is just complex chemistry.

      Just to head off any complaints of "well, DNA is easy, cells are hard", or "DNA is just chemistry, but cells contain magic", let's note that Venter's synthetic critter will be reproducing like a normal cell - i.e. his synthetic (just a bunch of chemicals) DNA will be controlling the creation of more of those magic cells. The second generation cells will be, if not man-made, made by something man-made.

    33. Re:Grossly misleading by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      At minimum to be called alive, an organism must be able to reproduce itself and at some level at least, be self-repairing if damaged. Viruses do meet these two specs. It can be argued that they do indeed meet these specs. Viruses reproduce by forcing other organisms to copy them. There are lots of parasitic insects, fishes, etc. that cannot reproduce without a host. The mechanism is different, but the end result- propagation of a strand of DNA, is exactly the same.
      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    34. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course when you use inappropriate authority sources, then you can make any kind of argument sound reasonable.

      Which people consider viruses alive? Can you even find 1 credible doctor or biologist? The fact of the matter is viruses are not considered alive.

    35. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not? Because they're dependent on their hosts? Maybe humans shouldn't be considered alive because we're not independent either. Without out mitochonria (ot gut flora for thst matter) we'd not be alive.

    36. Re:Grossly misleading by Dimensio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A bigger challenge yet is to make some DNA from a rock and inject that into another rock, which then comes alive. That's what evolutionists claim happened originally, billions of years ago when minerals washed down from the rocky land into the "prebiotic soup" of warm seas.

      Please stop lying. You will not falsify the theory of evolution by wrongly attributing the process of abiogenesis to it. You will also not falsify any biological concepts by making a gross misstatement of an abiogenesis hypothesis.

    37. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....whereas in fact the assembly of this virus was from synthesized components........

      So were these components they used the bare bones elements, (carbon, hydrogen, oxygen etc.) or did the bits and pieces come from something that had once been alive? From the article, it appears that these input components were pre-assembled from substances that had once been part of something that was alive once. All petro-chemicals are in that category. That's why we call them fossil fuels. Fossils are the remains of living creatures. Complex molecules made by living things are routinely broken down into simpler ones. My original assertion still holds, life can only come from life. To truly create life, not merely reassemble it, all parts have to be made without utilizing anything that was part of or produced by a living creature.

      --
      All theory is gray
    38. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      ..... IBM and Dell don't mine copper or silicon.....

      No, of course they don't. There is however a long complex "food chain" of other manufacturers (organisms) that do in fact supply these companies with the subassemblies that are then made into computers. Mankind as a whole has learned to take the elements of the earth and used them to build computers and a lot of other things. Life as a whole does this also, only on a much higher, complex level. Life is able to make computers that make computers, without an external factory. Everybody will readily admit that the computers that Dell turns out are designed. However, there are many who are unwilling to admit that the living computers are likely also designed.

      --
      All theory is gray
    39. Re:Grossly misleading by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      A bigger challenge for you is not to swallow your own tongue.

    40. Re:Grossly misleading by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      A challenge for you nerdy software engineers maybe, but us scientists are total studs. Just look at Stephen Hawking, dude can't even talk on his own, but he still gets plenty.

    41. Re:Grossly misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen are all made by nucelar fusion in stars - they are not made by living organisms.

      You don't seem to understand that a virus, and DNA, is just a chemical (DNA is just an abbreviation of it's chemical name Deoxyribonucleic acid). There is nothing magical about it - the properties of DNA, interesting and complex as they may be, are just chemical properties.

    42. Re:Grossly misleading by kartune85 · · Score: 0

      Eventually someone will create an artificial cell (just more chemistry) to put it into, and at that point any rational person would have to accept that a living thing had been totally made from raw chemicals (vs Venter's current creation only partly lab made), and that's what I mean by it not being anything fundamental. Life is just complex chemistry.

      This statement is just based on speculations. The statement should be preceded with an 'if'.

      It is then transplanted into a living bacterial cell and in the final stage of the process it is expected to take control of the cell and in effect become a new life form. The team of scientists has already successfully transplanted the genome of one type of bacterium into the cell of another, effectively changing the cell's species. Mr Venter said he was "100% confident" the same technique would work for the artificially created chromosome.

      The fact that has already been pointed out is there have only been modifications made to a cell rather then creating a new self-sufficient, self-developing, reproducing artificial lifeform.
      I, for one, don't believe scientist's can create true artificial life, I'm not going to discourage them from trying, but life itself is not just "complex chemistry".
      Without 'life', all the chemicals, elements, cells, etc. are useless. For example, if you have a deceased body, all the necessary elements are there, but without the breathe of 'life', they're... a lifeless mass.

      Also, Mr Venter might be "100% confident" that it will work, but methinks we should wait to see the results rather than rely on the confidence of Mr Venter.

      --
      "Failure to conform to majority belief does not make you a troll."
    43. Re:Grossly misleading by hab136 · · Score: 1

      There is however a long complex "food chain" of other manufacturers (organisms) that do in fact supply these companies with the subassemblies that are then made into computers. Mankind as a whole has learned to take the elements of the earth and used them to build computers and a lot of other things. Life as a whole does this also, only on a much higher, complex level.

      I guess I don't like the analogy then, since the definition for creating life seems to require more than the definition of creating a computer. If we applied the same analogy, Dell would have to only use non-computer parts to build computers; transistors and capacitors would be ok, but CD-ROM drives would not.

      Everybody will readily admit that the computers that Dell turns out are designed. However, there are many who are unwilling to admit that the living computers are likely also designed.

      Man, my "thinly-disguised religious doctrine" alarm is going off. Many people have solid beliefs about the origin of life. Fine, good - but we're not talking about how life evolved years ago. We're talking about whether we can create life today.

      Some people have theories about abiogenesis (life from not-life) - and this work today is on the way to testing whether life from not-life is possible. It isn't the final word on the subject, and much more work will have to be done. Some day we'll either create life from not-life, or run out of ideas on how to do it.

      And here's the best part - even if humans are able to create life, that doesn't mean that whatever method we use is the one originally used for life on Earth. :)
    44. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      ......even if humans are able to create life, that doesn't mean that whatever method we use is the one originally used for life on Earth........

      True, but it would be powerful evidence that a mind, ie. intelligence was needed to create this artificial life. If intelligent humans did manage to create life from the elements, it would be highly unreasonable to assume, as many do today, that natural life came about by any means that did not also require intelligent input.

      --
      All theory is gray
    45. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....I hear some scientists believe that stars, planets, and even galaxies form through naturally-occurring processes......

      Scientists believe this, but they don't KNOW it. All of nature obeys the LAWS of physics. All laws, natural or man given, originate in a mind. Nobody has ever shown that any of the laws of nature arise from within our time-space-matter-energy universe. God gave his laws and the entire universe except for man obeys them. So yes, you're right, God did it. Is that so hard to believe?

      --
      All theory is gray
    46. Re:Grossly misleading by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      "Scientists believe this, but they don't KNOW it."

      They don't "believe it" either. Belief is something for religios: scientists _accept_ whatever provides the best explanation of the things they observe, and modify or scrap these ideas when new discoveries or better experimental data demonstrate that they're wrong. An excellent example of this in action was the Michelson-Morley experiment that tried to measure the effects of the luminiferous aether that 19th century scientists postulated as the medium through which light-waves travelled, and started a chain of increasingly accurate experiments that ended up entirely removing that idea from mainstream science.

      "All of nature obeys the LAWS of physics"

      The laws are made by man to model observed natural phenomena, so statements about nature itself obeying them are pure balderdash.

      "Nobody has ever shown that any of the laws of nature arise from within our time-space-matter-energy universe"

      That's because scientists know precisely where these "laws" came from: the minds of people who measured stuff using human-invented units, and came up with some constants and formulae that expressed various phenomena _as humans observe them_ in said human-invented units. They are man-made representations of man's observation of the universe we occupy, not fundamental rules that the universe itself embodies.

      "God gave his laws and the entire universe except for man obeys them"

      How does man disobey these "laws of physics" that you claim all of nature must obey? Please cite a reliable recorded incident (i.e. no pseudo-scientific guff like perpetual motion machines) where somebody just decided not obey the inverse square law, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law, or any other "law of physics", and actually succeeded in doing so.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    47. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      I, for one, don't believe scientist's can create true artificial life, I'm not going to discourage them from trying, but life itself is not just "complex chemistry".
      Without 'life', all the chemicals, elements, cells, etc. are useless. For example, if you have a deceased body, all the necessary elements are there, but without the breathe of 'life', they're... a lifeless mass.


      The "life" in a person's body is just a combination of the "life" (complex chemistry!) in each cell, combined with the sum-of-the-parts that different types of cells can do (muscle cells can contract - move, neural cells can integrate inputs and form nerural networks, etc), and the overall way they are call connected per the DNA blueprint. Each cell is only going to maintain it's complex chemical cycles as long as you keep providing it with a source of energy, source of raw materials, keep it hydrated, remove chemical waste products etc (much like a fire whose self-perpetuating processes will "die" without fuel, oxygen, removal of carbon dioxide).

      We are most used from movies/etc seeing what happens when you SUDDENLY remove of these vital (literally life giving!) factors such as when someone is shot in the head (brain controls breathing, etc) or heart, or they bleed to death or are strangled (no more oxygen), etc, etc, but it's really more informative to see the way people die more typically in real life. If you're old enough to have seen relatives die than you know what I mean. People don't die very quickly - it's a process rather than an event, and it takes days as components start to die (you can smell "death" on someone days before they are actually dead) and have knock-on effects. It's similar to a pond or river that goes from being healthy to stagnant - a vicious cycle of degradation until in the end the self-sustaining cycles are completely gone.

      Life similarly doesn't start with a bang. A fertilized egg is initially nothing more than a cell in the mothers body, and it's only after many cycles of division and cellular specialization that the mass of cells starts to become a system - the creation of a rudimentary brain starting with the stem, a rudimentary heart and circulation system, etc, and it gradually becomes an independent self-sustaining system and we regard it as a life separate from the mother.

      As for Venter's pending announcement (article said expected in next few weeks), certainly it's not real until it has been done and verified, but I would not expect any surprises. The DNA has already been verified as viable - it was designed / pared down as a result of genetic "knock-out" experiments, with the continued viability of the cell being the proof, so we know that the DNA he wants to use works, and the introduction of new DNA into a cell is also nothing new... In fact I think most people involved in the field see it more as hype than an experiment who's outcome is in any doubt, since it's not really that much of a step forward - but nonethless dramatic enough to make the headlines.

    48. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      Hardly - the DNA of this artificial critter has been "designed" in exactly the way nature does it by a bunch of "mutate and test" genetic "knock-out" experiments. This is proof not of the need for an intelligent designer but of the exact opposite - how the mindless processes of nature can come up with a new species.

      Maybe you should go read about what Venter is doing, and how he is doing it, before making baseless assertions about it.

    49. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....Belief is something for religios: scientists _accept_ whatever provides the best explanation.......

      You show me ONE school text book that doesn't state somewhere therein where faith words such as "accept" or "assume" are not used in connection with conjectures about origins. Speaking of light, for centuries, scientists accepted the idea that light took no time at all, that it was instantaneous. Olaf Roemer observed that this was not true. However, it took another 50 years for mainstream scientists to believe (accept) his observations.

      (....The laws are made by man to model observed natural phenomena,.....)

      So the consistent laws of gravity, inertia, electricity etc. are all man made? So then, why don't we change them? Reverse gravity whenever a car goes uphill and re-instate it when going downhill. We observe that nature seems to work in a consistent way. It's not capricious. Water doesn't run uphill one day and the sun doesn't rise in the north one day and in the west the next. It's this very predictability of a universe we did not make, but are mostly spectators in, that makes science and technology possible. We quantify the consistent behavior we observe, but did not create. On the basis of these units and laws we are able to make certain predictions and build useful devices.

      (.....How does man disobey these "laws of physics" that you claim all of nature must obey?......)

      First I did not state laws of "physics" that man fails to obey. I merely wrote His, that it is all God's laws. You MUST obey His laws of physics, but God honors us by giving us a choice about HIS moral laws based on love. You may choose to tell the truth or to be a liar. If you lie to someone, you demonstrate you have no love for them. Thou shalt not steal. If you do steal from somebody, which you CAN do, you prove that you have no love for them. Anyone who violates anyone of God's moral laws commits cosmic rebellion and treason against the rightful government of God over His creation. He wants us to deal with each other out of love, not coercion.

      --
      All theory is gray
    50. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....Maybe you should go read about what Venter is doing.....

      What does it matter what he's doing? He is applying his presumed intelligence to the problem of coming up with artificial life. He is using components from living factories, not from the bare bones elements. That means he is not creating life at all. All he is doing is taking existing life products and re-arraging them. It's like taking a stock car and turning it into a racing machine. He's still using nuts, bolts, pipes and metals etc made by other humans. To create life is not the same as making a copy. If God had copyrighted or patented DNA and all life, Venter could be charged with making a derivative work or patent infringement and be forced to pay royalties.

      --
      All theory is gray
    51. Re:Grossly misleading by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      >There is no sensible definition of life that would include viruses.

      Let me shorten that:
      There is no sensible definition of life.

      People who don't know much about science and real-world occurrences like black-and-white definitions, of the legal form. Nature is not so obliging. If you talk to biologists, actual working ones, they'll say that words like 'species' and 'life' are useful to describe a set of observations, but aren't true in some basic, fundamental way: they're just descriptive.

      If you write a definition of 'life' that says, buried down in the assumptions and premises, that viruses aren't alive, then yeah, viruses aren't alive. But if you use a definition of life that reflects what we see in the world, it's really difficult to make a definition that includes obligate intracellular parasites like some mycobacteria but excludes viruses. It's a continuum: there are things that are clearly alive, like dogs; there are things that clearly aren't, like rocks; and there are things in the middle, like (in increasing order of alive) prions, tobacco mosaic virus, herpesvirus, chlamydia species, animals, plants, and at the top, photolithotrophes, which are about as alive as you can get, requiring nothing but sunlight and rock for their continued survival.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    52. Re:Grossly misleading by capnchicken · · Score: 2, Funny

      I wish God gave us a choice about whether or not we could obey physical laws. I think that would increase the sin/sinner ratio a bit too much though. I mean c'mon: though shalt not float freely above a body of large mass, though shalt not travel faster then light. Dude, those are totally asking to be broken and seem much more worth it then burning for sleeping in on Sunday.

      --
      A libertarian shat on my carpet once. Claimed the free market would sort it out. -Ford Prefect(8777)
    53. Re:Grossly misleading by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      What does it matter what he's doing? He is applying his presumed intelligence to the problem of coming up with artificial life.

      No, he really isn't. But to understand that you do need to undertand what he's actually doing.

      What part of gene knock-out mutations strikes you as being more intelligent than the random mutations occuring in nature? He's not designing anything - just breaking it in various ways and seeing (without expectations) if it still works, and repeating the process. That's the same as occurs in nature.

      The more interesting part of this isn't the (unintelligent) way he's coming up with the DNA for his new species, but rather the fact that he's then going to synthesize it (ignoring the broken bits) from raw chemicals and inject it back into the bacteria. This part of it (synthesizing the DNA) is in a way just a headline grabbing stunt - unless of course you get freaked out by a living species who's DNA has been made to order from lab chemicals.

    54. Re:Grossly misleading by hab136 · · Score: 1

      True, but it would be powerful evidence that a mind, ie. intelligence was needed to create this artificial life. If intelligent humans did manage to create life from the elements, it would be highly unreasonable to assume, as many do today, that natural life came about by any means that did not also require intelligent input.

      Proving that it is *possible* to design life isn't the same thing as proving that it is the *only* way to create it.

      Dumping a pile of chemicals that resemble the theorized "primordial soup" into a jar and shaking it - well if that worked, that would prove that no thought or design was required.

      It may be possible to design life, and it may be possible to create life accidentally. Humans have been unable to make either approach work yet - or rule either approach out - so the only thing we can do is keep an open mind.
    55. Re:Grossly misleading by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      "You show me ONE school text book that doesn't state somewhere"

      School textbooks are not written by or for scientists, so this is a straw man.

      "Speaking of light, for centuries, scientists accepted the idea that light took no time at all, that it was instantaneous. Olaf Roemer observed that this was not true. However, it took another 50 years for mainstream scientists to believe (accept) his observations.

      It took 50 years for others to test and confirm his observations, after which they became accepted. Current science isn't immediately rewritten whenever somebody comes along claiming that it's wrong -- there is a peer review process which includes others repeating experiments under the same conditions, and comparing their results with those of the person or team making the claim. Steady improvements in global communications have progressively accelerated the process, but it can still take several years for others to thoroughly analyse the original experiment and its data for potential flaws, and then attempt to duplicate it (depending of course on the complexity of what is being tested).

      "So the consistent laws of gravity, inertia, electricity etc. are all man made?"

      The laws are indeed man made, but that doesn't mean that the natural phenomena we measured to derive them are. Of course, anybody who wasn't so obviously determined to build and knock down their own straw men would have realised that the following quote from my prior post made this distinction very clear: "The laws are made by man to model observed natural phenomena".

      "So then, why don't we change them? Reverse gravity whenever a car goes uphill and re-instate it when going downhill."

      We can freely change the laws, and have done so many times throughout history when new observations and experiments showed that they were wrong. You seem to be (probably deliberately) trying to present such laws as something other than a conceptual model that reflects man's understanding of, and ability to measure physical phenomena, both of which have changed many times. Before Galileo, scientists were convinced that objects of different weights fell at different speeds, and came up with all sorts of laws to predict this, but they were wrong, so all those laws were thrown out, and new ones were formulated. This did not however mean that the nature of reality itself changed to make objects of different weights fall at the same speed the moment Galileo came up with an experiment to prove it -- the laws changed, but nature remained just as it had been since long before there were any humans to build conceptual models of it.

      "We observe that nature seems to work in a consistent way. It's not capricious. Water doesn't run uphill one day and the sun doesn't rise in the north one day and in the west the next."

      These are localised phenomena, not universal ones. Water in microgravity for example behaves very differently from the way it does on Earth, and other planets can have rotational directions, axes, and axial stability that differ from those of Earth, meaning that not only would their sunrises appear on other horizons, but could also vary significantly in their location over relatively short periods of time (e.g. a human life span).

      "It's this very predictability of a universe we did not make, but are mostly spectators in, that makes science and technology possible. We quantify the consistent behavior we observe, but did not create. On the basis of these units and laws we are able to make certain predictions and build useful devices."

      I fail to see the point of this sentence, because it's making exactly the same points I did, i.e. that laws are man's attempt to quantify the universe, not fundamental aspects of reality that it "obeys".

      "First I did not state laws of "physics" that man fails to obey."

      A quote from your original post shows that this is exactly what you stated:

      "Nobody has ever shown that any of the laws of nature arise from within our time-space-matter-energy universe.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    56. Re:Grossly misleading by arminw · · Score: 1

      ......School textbooks are not written by or for scientists......

      So then they indoctrinate students about the beliefs of the textbook writers and masquerade as science.

      (....It took 50 years for others to test and confirm his observations....)

      No it did not take long for someone else to look out at Jupiter and its moons to be able to observe what Roemer reported.

      (...to model observed natural phenomena.....)

      So we're only having a semantic problem here about the meaning of the word law, as applied to natural phenomena we observe. The point is that we have built our technological society upon the observed fact that these things, you call natural phenomena and I call the laws of nature, are predictable and consistent.

      (....We can freely change the laws.....)

      Given your interpretation of the word law, how about if I substitute "observed natural phenomena"? Can we change these observations about how gravity works everyday on earth. Shall we relabel what is commonly known as "Ohms Law" of electricity as "Ohm's phenomena or observation of electricity"?

      (....These are localised phenomena, not universal ones...)

      Gravity is still largely a mystery in terms of where it comes from. We observe that matter gives rise to gravity and this, as well as the other forces can be observed to be uniformly at work in the entire observable universe. ....not fundamental aspects of reality that it "obeys"....)

      These fundamental aspects of reality show there is a consistency and order which we have no power to change. These aspects of reality were first called theories. After much more observation and experimentation, which is at the core of real science, no exceptions to these phenomena were observed and the name was changed from theory to law, a law of nature.

      (.....Where is your evidence for claiming that the entire universe obeys moral laws?......)

      I have never stated that the entire universe obeys moral laws. Only man was given that choice, because man was given the ability to love, which is a choice of the will of man. The rest of creation MUST obey the laws, or in your wording, it doesn't violate the nature of reality.

      (.....know or care about the horrific suffering......)

      The existence of pain and suffering in our world seems to cry out against the idea that there is a God who could by any measure be described as "good". There are some satisfying answers, to me at least, but this forum on technology and science is not the place to discuss that. Even so, God and science are not incompatible.

      --
      All theory is gray
  9. Depends how you flip the coin. by jshriverWVU · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This is a highly philosphical topic. While I am not a creationalist, being able to biochemically construct a DNA pattern isn't what I'd really call life. If he can build an amoeba 100% from raw material, then that is pretty close. Looks like they're at the beginning stages though, so the field is definitely alive. :)

    1. Re:Depends how you flip the coin. by thrillseeker · · Score: 1

      being able to biochemically construct a DNA pattern isn't what I'd really call life

      There's an interesting perspective that cells, collecting into complex organisms, with strength, agility and intelligence, are nothing more than DNA's way to improve its own chances of reproducing.

    2. Re:Depends how you flip the coin. by akasch · · Score: 0

      I don't think it will get very far - Frankenstein is a lot more complicated...

      --
      Mo
    3. Re:Depends how you flip the coin. by arminw · · Score: 1

      ......Looks like they're at the beginning stages though.......

      Actually, nobody is anywhere near making even a moderately complex protein, let alone a living cell, from totally non-living material. We can take complex molecules, produced by something that was at one point alive and assemble these into other compounds. So far, life only comes from life. Nobody has ever even come remotely close to demonstrating otherwise.

      --
      All theory is gray
  10. not quite .... by Kristoph · · Score: 5, Informative

    1) He has not announced this. He is expected to annouce it. It's not actually been done yet, according to the article, although Venter is '100% confident'.

    2) It was not him but his team.

    3) His team has not actually created the life form in question, it's just a stripped down copy of an existing life form.

    4) His team has only made a copy of the chromosome, the other parts of cellular machinary come from an existing organism.

    So the summary should read ...

    Craig Venter is expected to announce that his team has created an artificial copy of a bacterium chomosome. The arficial chromosome, if all goes well, will be installed in a cell, and will take over its machinery, and effectivelly begin living.

    ]{

    1. Re:not quite .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, I would agree. Typical grandstanding by this fellow. Had to pry the genome from his greedy hands when he was trying to privatize/monetize human genes, etc.

      The man is a prima donna, prone to exaggerate, self-serving in every way.

      And yes, he has merely created some DNA. Routinely done using PCR, etc. He has simply reversed reading techniques to writing techniques. And as pointed out by other posters, he has commandeered the machinery of other cells.

      In summary, this is a long, long way from 'creating life'. Take anything Venter says with a (huge) grain of salt and consult others in the field, etc.

      The man is simply seeking self-glorification.

    2. Re:not quite .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2) It was not him but his team. That's not part of your job to worry about that.

      So the summary should read ...

      Craig Venter is expected to announce that his team has created You obviously don't work in the biomedical research industry. Managers take credit. Research associates are expendable. If you continue to voice your dissatisfaction you will be cited for insubordination, you will be fired, and you will not be hired by anyone else in the industry. Have fun being homeless for the rest of your life. Hope you don't have any outstanding college bills to pay. Maybe you'll get to meet this guy.
    3. Re:not quite .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      awww someone feels entitled to the high-end job of their choice... so cute.

    4. Re:not quite .... by Pooua · · Score: 1

      So the summary should read ...

      Craig Venter is expected to announce that his team has created an artificial copy of a bacterium chomosome. The arficial chromosome, if all goes well, will be installed in a cell, and will take over its machinery, and effectivelly begin living.


      Men's Health carried an article earlier this afternoon (but I don't see it now on Google News, where I first found it) that states:

      Despite the reports, a spokeswoman for the offices where Venter works states that the Guardian Unlimited "jumped the gun" in reporting the event.

      "The Guardian is ahead of themselves on this. We have not achieved what some have speculated we have in synthetic life. When we do so there will be a scientific publication and we are likely months away from that," said Heather Kowalski, the office's spokeswoman.


      US scientist says he created first 'artificial life form'

      --
      Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
    5. Re:not quite .... by QuietObserver · · Score: 1

      So the summary should read ... Craig Venter is expected to announce that his team has created
      You obviously don't work in the biomedical research industry. Managers take credit.

      Are you implying that biomedical research managers are the only ones who take credit? I've seen managers in several industries, including some entirely unrelated to biomedicine, though I can't think of any off the top of my head at the moment, such as a large portion of a number of computer industries, also take credit, without giving any regard for the team responsible for much of the work. While it's true that this, at least, seems to be the exception rather than the rule, as many other industries appear to give a great deal of credit to the team members, even some, such as the motion picture industry, giving too much, the issue is something that should draw more attention. Not to criticize your analysis, which I believe is wholly accurate, I would have liked to see at least a small, though indirect mention that the 'managers take credit' comment applies to other industries as well.

  11. Is this the best use we can think of? by janrinok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "....but it could also lead to new bio-weapons."

    What a pity that one of the first things that we think of when making such a step forward is 'How can we use this to kill our fellow man?'. OK, so global warming and new drugs are also in there, but which one would you bet on will receive the big government funding?

    --
    Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
    1. Re:Is this the best use we can think of? by Original+Replica · · Score: 1

      What a pity that one of the first things that we think of when making such a step forward is 'How can we use this to kill our fellow man?'.

      Science and Warfare have gone hand in hand since the beginnings of technology. An advance in technology almost always translates into an advance in the ability to wage war. Those that are rich and powerful because of war (every government ever) know this and often give a lot of support and funding to science. DARPA is an easy example. As this relationship is very old news, it is incumbent upon scientists and thinkers of the world to consider the more brutal applications of their advancements. Alfred Noble learned that the hard way.

      --
      We are all just people.
    2. Re:Is this the best use we can think of? by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What a pity that one of the first things that we think of when making such a step forward is 'How can we use this to kill our fellow man?'.

      No, I think it goes more like this: "Wow, this has a lot of potential. We can use it for all sorts of things. It's also possible that someone who wants to indiscriminently kill lots of people or hurry along some pet apocalypse might want to use this as a weapon, too, so we'd better understand what it means to approach it that way, the better to be prepared for evidence that that's actually taking place."

      But that's not nearly as likely to boost your karma with the idealogical alarmists and kooks that can't grasp the difference between offense and defense, so I can see why you wouldn't present it that way.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:Is this the best use we can think of? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      What a pity that one of the first things that we think of when making such a step forward is 'How can we use this to kill our fellow man?'

      You have it backward. The first thought is: How can my fellow man use this to kill me ?

      As well as it should, considering the history of human race...

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    4. Re:Is this the best use we can think of? by EonBlueApocalypse · · Score: 1

      I think being at a point where weapons can wipe out entire portions of the population and maybe humanity all together, it would be a good time to implement some fundamental changes in how we approach and create technology, and conduct warfare... to be a bit of a pessimist I don't really see anything like that happening unless something truly devastating occurs, but it will probably be to late by then.

    5. Re:Is this the best use we can think of? by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....... it would be a good time to implement some fundamental changes in how we approach and create technology.......

      It has to go much deeper than mere technology. God had put in writing, centuries ago, where the problem lies:

        Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things , and desperately wicked: who can know it?

      He wrote this in the context of man's desire to be independent of his Creator. Only a change of a person's core attitude toward God and then toward the other creations of God, especially other people, will ever change this. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge and respect the Creator, cannot possibly be too concerned about Hid creation, including other humans. It's not the tools, but the one who wields the tools that needs to change at the most fundamental level.

      There is no fundamental difference, except quantity, between someone who kills a fellow human being with a club and someone pushing a button, releasing some WMD that kills millions. The person using the club or button may have been "ordered" to do this by someone else, who is just as guilty.

      The sad, terrifying prediction of Jesus is that this attitude of rebellion in humanity will not change until mankind has brought itself and other life forms to the brink of extinction. God will be forced to intervene at the last possible moment, to prevent His world from being made into a desolate, uninhabitable waste by us.

      --
      All theory is gray
    6. Re:Is this the best use we can think of? by kartune85 · · Score: 0

      He wrote this in the context of man's desire to be independent of his Creator.

      Man is sinful by nature. As for man's desire to be independent of the Creator, the fact that there are so many different languages is a result of man trying to be independent of their Creator.

      Genesis 11:3-7 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.
      Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
      But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.


      It appears as though the world is approaching a point where God will intervene once again. You may want to read your Bible's to find out what happens when God does intervene and how you can be prepared. It's all documented.

      --
      "Failure to conform to majority belief does not make you a troll."
  12. fork! by Kristoph · · Score: 4, Funny

    So this is open source at it's best ...
    He took the source for a bacterium, he forked it, and made a newer, cleaner version. He is about to start testing. His version does not yet actually do anything, but if all goes well it will be a great foundation for new and usefull stuff.
    ]{

    1. Re:fork! by TheRagingTowel · · Score: 1

      He took the source for a bacterium, he forked it, and made a newer, cleaner version. He is about to start testing. His version does not yet actually do anything, but if all goes well it will be a great foundation for new and usefull stuff. What you're saying is really funny and true, but let's not forget (and people who are not in the field may not really comprehend this) that these 'technicalities' are far from being easy in biology nowadays and for a long time from now... The whole idea of TFA is that someday, maybe, we could do this :)
      --
      4Z5TX
  13. Quite an Important Question by Sub+Zero+992 · · Score: 1

    Should we (as a species) have that ability? I suspect that now Craig "Pandora" Venter has opened this particular box, no end of troubles will come from it.

    --
    They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security - Ben Franklin
    1. Re:Quite an Important Question by BlueGecko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every technology has both good and bad applications. Nuclear reactions can provide an almost limitless supply of energy, far beyond what we as a species need for the foreseeable future. It also lets us make massive atomic bombs, and even doomsday weapons that could wipe out all life on Earth. I think we've done a passable job using that technology thus far.

      What about electricity itself? Electricity gave us the electric chair and modern mechanized warfare, It also has given us massive advances in medicine and technology.

      This discovery will be no different. It furthers our understanding of our entire biology, getting us closer, inch-by-inch, to being able to cure all diseases, bring back extinct organisms, and likely usher in molecular computers and nano-machines that can self-replicate and help us fix the damage we've done to earth. I've no doubt it can also be used to kill all humans. I'm confident that we as a species will have matured enough by the time this technology becomes useful that our imminent demise won't be our top concern.

    2. Re:Quite an Important Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up. That's a Peter Griffin question if I've ever heard one.

      This armchair philosphy shit got old in 80s sci-fi. When you do something with your life, you can worry about if you "should" continue or not.

      The last thing brilliant scientists need is fat nerds in their parents basements trying to regulate their behavior on internet forum kangaroo courts.

      It's not deep, it's not insightful, it's not smart. It's shameless.

    3. Re:Quite an Important Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that is the least important question imaginable. We have this ability - you can't take that back, so your question is besides the point. The question is *how* we should *use* it.

    4. Re:Quite an Important Question by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 1

      Just curious- what are the bad applications of nerf technology?

    5. Re:Quite an Important Question by Nephilium · · Score: 1

      Office productivity for IT workers... :)

      Nephilium

    6. Re:Quite an Important Question by Shar-Kali-Sharri · · Score: 1

      Hahahaha. Humanity have matured - hahahaha. Sorry - you weren't joking?

      --
      In Soviet Russia my signature is reading YOU
  14. Well..I am for it by lordvalrole · · Score: 2, Funny

    as long as Spielberg doesn't make a movie about it.

    1. Re:Well..I am for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think even Spielberg would be hard pressed to make a movie with walkie-talkies replacing bacteria...

    2. Re:Well..I am for it by vnaughtdeltat · · Score: 1

      ...or Crichton write a novel about it.

  15. MOD PARENT UP by Icarus1919 · · Score: 1

    This guy actually knows what he's talking about.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Mod up someone who knows what they're talking about? You must be new here...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  16. Since I love being pedantic by Captain+Vittles · · Score: 5, Informative

    The summary's use of the term 'genetic code' actually plays down the enormity of what's written about in TFA. We've been able to assemble 'genetic code' for a long time now - designer oligomers are a very useful tool for researchers, especially with regards to techniques like PCR, which requires a primer to really get started. The accomplishment written about in the article is that a chromosome was constructed. This isn't merely a snippet of code, but hundreds of genes (composed of hundreds of thousands of base pairs), arranged appropriately on the necessary protein structures. When the article says it was painstakingly assembled, I don't doubt it. That kind of synthesis is remarkably difficult, time-consuming and prone to error if careful attention isn't given to every detail.

    Also note that this isn't actually synthetic life, just a synthetic genome. The components which translate that genome into a functional organism (i.e. the cell and it's structures) were not created. But this is none the less a great leap forward, and I'm sure the resulting findings and work to come from this will unlock vast possibilities, as well as elucidate some currently unknown processes and problems in molecular biology.

    Speaking of possibilities, let's also try not to get too caught up in the nonsense here. This stuff about combating global warming and building drugs and/or bioweapons is just idle speculation, and could be applied to pretty much any kind of molecular biology research. This is just one step, albeit a big one, towards a possible larger goal.

    1. Re:Since I love being pedantic by noidentity · · Score: 1

      So in other words, it's kind of like the iPhone being hacked so that anyone can write and run code? If God releases a firmware update, do NOT apply it!

    2. Re:Since I love being pedantic by lbbros · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, at least in the name, BACs (Bacterial Artificial Chromosome) and YACs (Yeast Artificial Chromosome) have been used for years. Granted, they're mostly used for cloning (IIRC), but by concept, they already exist.

      Has someone got a link to a more scientific-oriented explanation? Current details are a bit scarce to me.

      --
      A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
    3. Re:Since I love being pedantic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you love being pedantic, you should learn the meaning of "enormity."

    4. Re:Since I love being pedantic by Captain+Vittles · · Score: 1

      enormity /nrmti/
      -noun, plural -ties
      1. outrageous or heinous character; atrociousness: the enormity of war crimes.
      2. something outrageous or heinous, as an offense: The bombing of the defenseless population was an enormity beyond belief.
      3. greatness of size, scope, extent, or influence; immensity: The enormity of such an act of generosity is staggering.

    5. Re:Since I love being pedantic by Captain+Vittles · · Score: 1

      You're right, a synthetic chromosome itself isn't exactly new, so I suppose I was a little overenthusiastic about that point. What's novel about this article's subject is that the genes were selected to result in a new functioning organism, and not just selected as a way of transmitting new genes into an existing organism, or as a method of cloning.

      I don't have any links either, as I didn't find anything that could stand alone as a decent reference. Mind you, I also didn't look very hard.

    6. Re:Since I love being pedantic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YACs (Yeast Artificial Chromosome)?

      Why would we waste time making artificial beer? We already have Canada for that...

  17. Global Warming??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "This ability to write genetic code could result in new ways to combat global warming..."

    That's the kind of claim that tells me that he's fishing for funding, nothing more.

    1. Re:Global Warming??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. Didn't you know EVERYTHING causes global-warming!? Global-warming has become the biggest buzz-word in politics. "Oh my God, he said global-warming; we have to support THAT!". It's become so bad that I don't take global-warming seriously anymore. It's all FUD.

      Did you know that pirating MP3's is the #10543 cause of global-warming? Not many people know that, but it's how the RIAA is getting support from government officials and the public for it's antics. STOP PIRATING! You're putting a hole in the ozone layer... oh wait, we don't talk about the ozone layer anymore; it causes global-warming!!

  18. Super-Bacteria by Nymz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    FTA - Bacteria could be created, he speculates, that could help mop up excessive carbon dioxide
    Hmm, this reminds me of the all too common science-fiction storyline of the perfect plan going to hell. I doubt other bacteria, grass, trees, flowers, and plants consider the current levels of carbon dioxide to be 'excessive'. And if this super-bacteria does such a good job, that it starves out those other organisms for food, then there could be some serious global problems.

    Bah, why am I so worried, I'm sure they will keep it safely contained like they have for rice
    1. Re:Super-Bacteria by tedivm · · Score: 1

      Well, it doesn't necessarily need to be released into the environment. Something coded to die out after a certain period of time as a safe guard could be incorporated into filters or other devices in factories or power plants that create a lot of carbon dioxide.

  19. and I am creating a new work of literature by semiotec · · Score: 4, Interesting

    with the writing of this post!

    From just a fast read of the article, I think the claim "creating" a new life is a bit exaggerated.

    It's pared down from the genome of a pre-existing species and probably permuted the organisation of the genes on the chromosomes, therefore not much "creation" was involved, they just figured out what genes are not essentially for cell/organism viability and removed them. Granted, a LOT of work had to have been done to stitch together the final artificial chromosome, but still, I think it would be more correct to say it's an artificially _modified_ chromosome rather than created.

    Gene therapy labs often play with the HIV virus, by taking out the nasty bits and put in replacement genes, to study whether it is an effective delivery system.

    Scientists have difficulty predicting function and structure of known/natural proteins/genes, let alone making new ones. However, gene modification is very common, for example, GFP (green fluorescent protein) is commonly modified to fluoresce other colours. And genome paring is also pretty common, there was a group that removed 5 MB (megabases) from mouse genome and the mice still looked and behaved normally _in_the_lab_, can you claim that they were a new species of mouse?

    Last I heard, the Mayo lab (http://www.mayo.caltech.edu/research.html) has created a completely novel gene which produced a protein that folded as they predicted it would. I haven't followed up on the progress since then.

    Sure, it took tremendously amount of effort, but it's still exaggeration. An example, perhaps a bit unfair, but it's like saying people who pared down Windows installations by removing non-essential files are "creating" new operating systems.

    1. Re:and I am creating a new work of literature by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      I think it would be more correct to say it's an artificially _modified_ chromosome rather than created.

      In terms of the design that's true - he cut bits out rather than designed new bits (that will come next).

      But in terms of building it, it seems it's accurate to say he created it, and certainly that it's artificial. The article says he built the DNA "from laboratory chemicals" which I assume means it was synthesized (not the first to do it - the polio virus has already been synthesized from raw chemicals) rather than the result of gene splicing.

    2. Re:and I am creating a new work of literature by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Ok, but if we can pull a life apart and piece it back together again, I'd say we've come a long way. Combine that with the evolutionary(!) design and you can really have something going. Start putting in and removing bits and pieces of code in big numbers, and we're well on the way to reverse engineering what all these bits do. I'd think the first step would be to strip away everything that's not essential, then starting to see how it fails. And I think artifical life doesn't have to be from scratch. If you think of it as a computer program, the basic "event loop" to maintain the organism isn't that important to reinvent, if we can make them do new things, look different, act different that's new life good enough to me.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:and I am creating a new work of literature by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      there was a group that removed 5 MB (megabases) from mouse genome and the mice still looked and behaved normally _in_the_lab_

      Yes, but they later demanded voting rights and royalties.

    4. Re:and I am creating a new work of literature by Pooua · · Score: 1

      The article says he built the DNA "from laboratory chemicals" which I assume means it was synthesized

      Yeah, the few articles that were on Google News when I read about this earlier this afternoon were a bit vague on exactly what role those laboratory chemicals played. The statements do not exclude the possibility that the chemicals were used merely to snip off the undesired code, reducing it to the few hundred bases that will eventually be transferred to a bacterial cell.

      --
      Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
    5. Re:and I am creating a new work of literature by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....but it's like saying people who pared down Windows installations by removing non-essential files are "creating" new operating systems......

      No, it's like taking some Linux and Max OSX files and installing those in Windows. If done right, it might produce a Windows with some of the best characteristics of those OS. Immunity to worms and spyware might be one of these. However there may also be some other effects, such as certain applications crashing or doing strange things.

      --
      All theory is gray
  20. Re:life by Seumas · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wrong hole. Biology fails you.

  21. Playing God? by LucidIconoclast · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Craig Ventner, when asked about the risks of 'playing God' in the creation of a new form of microbial life responded
    "My colleague Hammie Smith likes to answer: 'We don't play.'"

    There's no denying the man has good ideas, and that this one has enormous potential. Unfortunately his egoism seemingly avaricious nature have put off many in the scientific community. Let's hope these factors don't slow this important development.

  22. Bio-weapons by freya_bacchus · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This ability to write genetic code could result in new ways to combat global warming and new drugs, but it could also lead to new bio-weapons." Not hard to figure out which will get the most funding.
    --
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity!
  23. I get scared by MichailS · · Score: 1, Interesting

    DNA science is a Pandoras' Box.

    How long until someone accidentally or willfully creates a pandemic plague?

    During my life I have heard enough misanthropes announce opinions that we are all a scourge on the poor planet and that it would be better if we all dropped dead. I don't hold it for impossible that such a person with the right skills and tools might succeed doing it.

  24. Yeah, we're forked indeed by NetSettler · · Score: 1

    So this is open source at it's best ... He took the source for a bacterium, he forked it, and made a newer, cleaner version. He is about to start testing. His version does not yet actually do anything, but if all goes well it will be a great foundation for new and usefull stuff.

    Presumably this new Generated Pseudo-Life (GP-L) will be viral in nature, seeking to beat down the monopoly stranglehold held by the entrenched biocommunity of today and replace it with something that, while having no market of its own, cannot be killed and hence will continue in perpetuity to drive down the value of Life itself, all the while touting "if it can be freely replicated, it must not be of any value".

    And as the last of us natural-born Slashdot readers gasps his last breath of air, he will go to his well-deserved grave happily knowing that software is finally, really, truly free.

    I can't wait.

    --

    Kent M Pitman
    Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

  25. When memes... by iknownuttin · · Score: 1
    Reading your post, I really though it would go like this:

    1. figure out there's such a thing as "genetic code"
    2. read genetic code
    3. profit!

    Oh brother. Now I'm afraid of seeing "In Soviet Russia, Life makes you!"

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    1. Re:When memes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      In Soviet Russia, Life makes you!

  26. Step 6 by blind+biker · · Score: 1

    Make Godzilla!

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:Step 6 by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 2, Funny

      make: *** No rule to make target 'Godzilla!'. Stop.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
  27. No, not pedantic by iknownuttin · · Score: 1
    Also note that this isn't actually synthetic life, just a synthetic genome.

    I'm glad you mentioned that. What was it? On NOVA? There was some scientist that's trying to make a synthetic life form that's completely different from what's on this planet. It would reproduce and feed, but it wasn't a cell as we know it - it didn't require the use of bacteria. He said he was really close. I want to say it's based on silicon, but I think that memory was created from too many years watching "Star Trek".

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
  28. great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "but it could also lead to new bio-weapons."

    Because that's what we need more of....

  29. Sorry for misreading... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1
    I read it as:

    The arficial chromosome, if all goes well, will be installed in a cell, and will take over their machinery, and all living things.

    But I like it better this way B-)
  30. Because we've become French. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're misreading that sentence. It's not, "But we can kill people with this! Cool!"

    It's, "OH MY GOD THINK OF THE CHILDREN OMG OMG OMG SCIENCE IS BAD :( :( :("

    At least, that's how it should be read here in the good ol' God'n'terrism fearin' US o' A.

  31. He should patent his wording as well ... by foobsr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "a very important philosophical step" — anybody else wondering how this guy defines 'ethics' ?

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  32. This would only be a hack. by Flying+pig · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Basically he is trying to demonstrate that you can write biological code onto a delivery vehicle and insert it into a functioning cell. It's the equivalent of writing the "Hello world" program from scratch and having it compile and run. It is intended to confirm what we already believe - i.e. that if you arrange DNA bases in the correct sequence, no additional magic is needed for a cell to decode it. So why do I find this annoying?

    I don't know if Venter made the overhyped claim but it will surely come back to bite science. Creationists and other voodoo merchants will surely seize on this as an example of scientists claiming far too much, and use it as ammunition to discredit science in the eyes of their followers (I started by typing "foolowers" but how many people nowadays know what it means when you write [stet] after a happy mistype?).

    Nobody can claim to create artificial life until there is a complete self-reproducing unit built from inorganic chemicals from the ground up. I don't know how long it will be before that happens, (diminishing resources may mean it never happens - we may have much more urgent tasks for scientists over the next 50 years or so.) but this isn't it. It looks like it is an important technical advance, but it is on a level with, say, the development of the CNC machine, and the claims in the media are about as accurate as if someone had written "With the development of the CNC workstation, we have created self-reproducing robots in the laboratory.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:This would only be a hack. by Teancum · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would have to agree with you on a general principle that A-life through biological means would mean using chemical processes like a biological laboratory or perhaps something akin to an oil refinery, and taking raw elements in the form of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen, and assembling those elements as a living thing that can self-replicate, given some basic nutrients.

      I have heard of an eventual goal of creating a completely artificial eukaryote by some bio-researchers. The idea here is to try and figure out what the absolute minimum requirements would be necessary in terms of a genetic sequence that would still allow for self-replication. Sort of a biological equivalent of a RISC processor or perhaps even something of a biological equivalent of the Brainf*** programming language. Such an organism would have profound implications and even value in terms of biological research, where you could test different genetic sequences in a simple but known environment that wouldn't be fighting with billions of years of genetic evolution. In "the wild", such a simple organism would also face incredible competition and would likely be killed by nearly everything it would encounter, so mad monsters from a lab experiment would not likely cause many problems... at least with the basic A-life eukaroyte.

      I agree that this is something that is decades away from being developed, but things such as writing a genetic sequence is certainly an important step to creating such living things.

    2. Re:This would only be a hack. by JeepGuyMike · · Score: 1

      This is true... 'Creating' would imply that the code created a brand-new organism. By just implanting into something else, you just hacked an exiting organism. 'Bigger, Faster, Better, Stronger'

    3. Re:This would only be a hack. by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....Creationists and other voodoo merchants will surely seize on this as an example of scientists claiming far too much,.......

      More likely as an example of far too little. If scientists would succeed in making life from non-life, it would show that it takes a lot of thought, not some random processes over time. It would show that it took even more thought to invent life from scratch, rather than just figuring out how to copy that which already exists. It would greatly strengthen the theory of intelligent design. Making a copy of a car or other machine is much easier if a working model is at hand. Even though we have a working model of life, nobody has managed to make even a rudimentary copy, in spite of the application of a considerable amount of human intelligence. Yet these same so called intelligent people insist that no intelligence was needed to make the original working model.

      --
      All theory is gray
    4. Re:This would only be a hack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet these same so called intelligent people insist that no intelligence was needed to make the original working model.
      _______

      Now we now that even naked monkeys can do it, so no need for gods.

  33. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  34. well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I, for one, do /not/ welcome our new transgenic, apocaylpse-causing microscopic overlords.

  35. Is anyone else afraid? by dgr73 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Microsoft Man 1.0

    1. Re:Is anyone else afraid? by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Microsoft Man 1.0 is too geeky. I'd call him Bob.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    2. Re:Is anyone else afraid? by Alexandra+Erenhart · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't want to know about the kind of bugs this one would bring with it...

    3. Re:Is anyone else afraid? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Microsoft Man 1.0

      Neighbor just wrote a VBA macro to make him poop in reverse.

  36. He didn't create it... by Assassin+bug · · Score: 3, Funny

    He followed a template from Mycoplasma genitalium . Venter calls his sexy little chimera Mycoplasma laboritorium. I, for one, feel suspicious about our new genital-disease-derived overlords.

  37. itslifejimbutnotasweknowit? by ihop0 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I sometimes wonder if people who come up with pithy tags realize they're totally useless. How many posts do people expect to fall under itslifejimbutnotasweknowit & notlifefromnonlife?

    1. Re:itslifejimbutnotasweknowit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They're useless, perhaps. But I have to say some of them do make me chuckle. And frankly, that's more useful than a hypothetical organizational scheme that I've never once used.

  38. An analogy for Slashdotters by mhackarbie · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Some comments above seem to either overestimate or underestimate the importance of what Venter is anticipating. Here is a computer-based analogy for what he is doing: it's equivalent to being able to boot to a new operating system of your choice.

    Some people under-estimate the potential significance by saying that we've been able to insert new genes in organisms for quite some time. That is true, but it misses the point, because for the first time the complete genome (operating system code) can be replaced with a different externally supplied version. That is a very significant and important capability, as it allows you to escape from the constraints of an existing operating system.

    However, because it relies on the existing hardware (protein synthesis machinery, metabolic enzymes, etc.), it's not the same as creating a whole new computer system (hardware and software) from scratch. In the beginning, of course a lot of the new genes will just be copies of those from existing genomes. But just like free/open-source software, having complete control of the OS will enable a much faster rate of development of new code.

    Complete assembly of ALL of the biomolecular components of a cell from basic non-living building blocks will certainly be another great milestone in biotechnology. But just as with computers, I personally expect advances in biotechnology will occur with much greater speed and diversity by modifying the software (genes) as opposed to the hardware.

    mhack

    --
    Building a better ribosome since 1997
    1. Re:An analogy for Slashdotters by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....by modifying the software (genes) as opposed to the hardware.......

      Except that in living systems, the hardware is built by and depends on the software. It requires enzymes to construct DNA, which carries instruction code how to make enzymes. So which came first, the enzymes that make the code carrier DNA possible, or the DNA which carries the instructions for making enzymes?

      It's like building a computer that makes computers with disk drives. The computer itself has a disk drive that contains the instructions needed to make computers and disk drives. Someone external to the loop, has to first build a disk drive and a computer, load the drive with the instructions on how to build computers with a disk drive and then boot the computer. Once the first computer is running, it can make more computers with disk drives, which can repeat this forever.

      --
      All theory is gray
  39. IT'S NOT A CHROMOSOME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    IT'S A GIANT PLASMID!!!
    WHERE ARE MY BIOCHEM GEEKS???
    They just stitched together a giant friggin plasmid, that's it.

    If they made a chromosome, great, that would be awesome because no one can do that yet, but it's a plasmid, sure, a fully working one, but still just a loop of DNA.

    They educated people writing these articles...

    1. Re:IT'S NOT A CHROMOSOME by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well it's sort of a chromosome by strict definition, but yeah, it's really a giant plasmid - without the complex protein related folding and suprastructre of a eukaryotic chromosome.

      It's also not really "artificial life" (as has been pointed out by many others).

      It is pure Venter - a good idea - more from an engineering standpoint than pure science, but important nonetheless, hyped to the max, poorly explained by a "journalist".

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  40. What a load of crap by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 1

    He didnt create life, he created DNA. And just like any programming it will probably fail at first.

  41. Congratulations by alexj33 · · Score: 0

    Congratulations.

    You've just proven that it takes intelligence and a lot of hard work to create life.

  42. This isn't artificial life. by Ingenium13 · · Score: 3, Informative

    While it would technically be considered a different species (though perhaps in the same genus as the parent species), I wouldn't consider it artificial life. All they did was repeatedly remove genes and see if the organism was viable. They still have no idea how most of the genes and regulation actually work. Simply modifying an organism doesn't constitute artificial life unless you consider dog breeds or other things we've created by breeding. By the same notion, it's not considered artificial life when a new custom chromosome (called a plasmid) is inserted into a bacteria or eukaryotic cell. It's done all the time and has been since the 80s. All they did was get rid of "extraneous" genes that they don't deem necessary. They're trying to make a designer organism to synthesize/produce compounds. This is one step in achieving that, though it was arguably unnecessary. The hard part is creating genes/proteins to make it do what you actually want. This involves creating a new biochemical pathway (or modifying an existing one), probably creating new enzymes to recognize your intermediates, designing ER and golgi receptors to recognize their finished product and target it for excretion from the cell, creating proper regulation of this pathway, etc, etc. As you can see, it's very complicated. No one has successfully created their own enzyme or protein yet, let alone an entire biochemical pathway of them.

  43. Wanted: a sci-fi book by MK_CSGuy · · Score: 1

    We'll see "genetic frameworks" with reusable piece that have well known behavior, and genetical development kits that simulate assemblies' features and behavior much faster than doing full-blown atom-by-atom simulation.

    Genetical programming will be born :)


    This sounds to me like a great setting for a science fiction book (or a morals-related debate)- a future world where there is proprietary genetic code which only some people can afford and a gpl-style licensed genetic code which everyone can freely use.

    If anyone here knows of such work that explores such issues (and not only the popular genetic profiling issue) please comment :)

    1. Re:Wanted: a sci-fi book by julesh · · Score: 1

      This sounds to me like a great setting for a science fiction book (or a morals-related debate)- a future world where there is proprietary genetic code which only some people can afford and a gpl-style licensed genetic code which everyone can freely use.

      If anyone here knows of such work that explores such issues (and not only the popular genetic profiling issue) please comment :)


      I don't, but I'm willing to bet it's in Charlie Stross's file of future ideas to explore...

    2. Re:Wanted: a sci-fi book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm in the process of writing one a lot like this, actually.
      Progress is... slow.

    3. Re:Wanted: a sci-fi book by Sentri · · Score: 1

      http://www.michaelcrichton.net/books-next-history.html

      Michael Crichton's Next: An interesting look at the problems with law and genetics. Worth a read if you are interested in the topic area

      --
      Can't we all just get along
  44. Artifical Life Created! by Essequemodeia · · Score: 0

    God who?

  45. Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't use DNA unless it is GPLed.

    1. Re:Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Open Source by jasontn · · Score: 1

      And make sure it's GPLv3, since they intend to patent it.

  46. Released under? by deviated_prevert · · Score: 0

    I just wonder if his code will be released under GPL2 or 3..if it is released under GPLv3 then it might taint my kernel! God help us if it is released under a bsd license.

    --
    This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
  47. tagging genius by Phil246 · · Score: 1

    My hats off to those /.'ers who came up with the "itslifejimbutnotasweknowit" tag :D

  48. MRS GREN by GoddessOfDeath · · Score: 3, Informative

    Anyone else remember sitting in high school bio and learning about MRS GREN (Movement; Respiration; Sensitivity; Growth; Reproduction; Excretion; Nutrition)? By this definition of life, a virus would not be considered.

    1. Re:MRS GREN by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      Which one does it violate?

      And, if I made robots, capable of building copies of themselves, and of seeking out and absorbing energy from their surroundings, would that count as life? If yes, it doesn't sound that far off.

    2. Re:MRS GREN by teslar · · Score: 1

      Well, I think that the requirements listed by the GP are simply not adequate. This is no personal attack, I know these are thaught in school, it's just that life is an incredibly difficult thing to define and 6 (rather loosely defined) words simply won't do. As a simple example,if all the above are considered a requirement, a mule, which cannot reproduce, would by definition not be alive. Just look up life on wikipedia for a taster of how difficult it is to define.

      Having said that, one of the reasons a virus is not considered alive is because it is not made of cells. Now, whether or not living organisms *need* to be built of cells is again another debate, but that's what the general consensus seems to be. Also, to answer the question strictly, a virus does not grow, it has no metabolism (respiration, nutrition, discretion), no sensitivity, movement is highly debatable and while it does reproduce, it cannot do so independently.

    3. Re:MRS GREN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and I also remember our instructor showing us that fire had those same characteristics.

    4. Re:MRS GREN by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....And, if I made robots, capable of building copies of themselves....

      Provided that the parts they used were never part of any other robot or machine. Any parts composed of anything more than some or all of the 92 or so elements could not be used. Life takes mostly carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen, along with some of the others to build all organisms. Your robot would have to do the same or employ a hierarchy of robots that could do this. Also, if you believe in evolution, the application of external intelligence, human in this case, would not be permitted. Your robot or a huge army of robots, if needed, have to do it all by themselves.

      For example, if your robot needed screws to hold it together, it would need the services of a robot that makes screws. That one would need the services of a steel mill and robots that get iron out of the ground etc. Get the idea?

      --
      All theory is gray
    5. Re:MRS GREN by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      For example, if your robot needed screws to hold it together, it would need the services of a robot that makes screws. That one would need the services of a steel mill and robots that get iron out of the ground etc. Get the idea? there are a lot of proteins and such that humans can't synthesize themselves, especially not from raw elements. This doesn't cause too much of a problem though, because there are other organisms that can. We have symbiotic, or predatorial relationships with them and we can get all the parts we need.

      If robot A is good at finding energy, robot B is good at finding titanium, and robot C (let's call him a bending unit) is good at shaping that titanium to build more robots, they can all share and we have the beginnings of an ecosystem. This is perfectly normal in organic life, and isn't hard to imagine in artificial life.
      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    6. Re:MRS GREN by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....is good at shaping that titanium to build more robots,......

      That's fine, but you'd first have to build one or more robots that could take the basic elements and make parts that other robots could use. You'd have to build what could be called a robotic food chain. The toughest one to make would be the very first robot that could make useful parts for other robots out of the bare elements.

      --
      All theory is gray
    7. Re:MRS GREN by capnchicken · · Score: 1

      I never liked that definition. Because fire seems to fall under it. it has the ability to move through space it has the ability to obtain energy through chemical reactions it responds to stimuli it has the ability to increase in size it has the ability to create more of itself it extracts fuel from it's environment and produces waste I wouldn't call it alive, I would call it a chemical reaction. I'm just trying to show that the Mrs Gren definition is good at differentiating a rock from a toad, but not much else.

      --
      A libertarian shat on my carpet once. Claimed the free market would sort it out. -Ford Prefect(8777)
    8. Re:MRS GREN by capnchicken · · Score: 1

      (Damn default HTML formatting)

      I never liked that definition. Because fire seems to fall under it.

      it has the ability to move through space
      it has the ability to obtain energy through chemical reactions
      it responds to stimuli
      it has the ability to increase in size
      it has the ability to create more of itself i
      t extracts fuel from it's environment and produces waste

      I wouldn't call it alive, I would call it a chemical reaction. I'm just trying to show that the Mrs Gren definition is good at differentiating a rock from a toad, but not much else.

      --
      A libertarian shat on my carpet once. Claimed the free market would sort it out. -Ford Prefect(8777)
    9. Re:MRS GREN by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm 100% sure that in the end all life IS chemical reactions, only. (Or eventually physical reactions, in the case of something nuclear driven or similair. Ok, make it 0-100% then.)

    10. Re:MRS GREN by aliquis · · Score: 1

      I would say that we can call something life no matter HOW it came to exist, why does that matter?

      Regarding all your other steps I don't see why a robot reproducing couldn't use whatever materials are available for him/her/it, it's not like I need to have other humans which create oxygen, water, carbohydrates, protein, fats, vitamins, minerals and antioxidants for my survival, it's ok for me to get them from wherever and still count as a life form, isn't it?

    11. Re:MRS GREN by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....it's ok for me to get them from wherever and still count as a life form, isn't it?.....

      Of course there is no doubt that you are a natural life form. However for someone to create life, means to make such artificial life entirely from non-living parts. Humans make computers from scratch. Some mine and refine elements, others make chips and so forth. Finally Dell comes along and makes computers. They don't really create computers, but only assemble them. In the same way, Venter has assembled some viruses out of parts that were previously made by some living thing, but he did not create life.

      (.....Regarding all your other steps I don't see why a robot reproducing couldn't use whatever materials are available for him/her/it,.....)

      Such a robot would have to have all the correct materials, but more importantly, it would need to be programmed. Where would the first robot get its program, telling it how to reproduce itself?

      By photosynthesis, plants produce hydrocarbons from bare elements. This is a complex process science still doesn't understand and has not yet copied. By this process living systems get all the bits and pieces they need for operation and reproduction. Anyone wanting to create artificial "robotic" life would have to build up a similar supply chain and write all the software to run everything.

      --
      All theory is gray
    12. Re:MRS GREN by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Great definition. So something which is so efficient that it doesn't excrete waste cannot be alive? For that matter, an impotent human being isn't alive either?

    13. Re:MRS GREN by aliquis · · Score: 1

      I know your signature says it all, but anyway:

      Yeah, I agree that taking existing DNA and modifying it, even if it involves reducing it to "no function", isn't creating new life.

      I guess it would be nice if the robots could make the material they need themself, but if they don't it's not a stoping point for calling it life imho. I don't know if I would call reproducing robots life thought, maybe, but not equal to us atleast =P (some people would say the same about animals but those people just suck.) (even less people would say the same thing about black people, jews, muslims or whatever but they just suck even more.)

      Plants still needs water, coaldioxide and sun light to do their thing, and we need water, oxygen and food, sure we can collect those things, but that's only (or well, us human could fix this issue I guess but no other animal) because they are already there for us to use, we would fail in an environment without them.

      So it's ok for robots to pick up premade steel bars or whatever ;D

  49. Pictures of the inside of a cell by SiliconEntity · · Score: 1

    It's hard to visualize the interior of cells, because particles are smaller than light waves, it's all in a liquid medium, and everything is crowded. Scripps Institute researcher David Goodsell paints cell interiors in a sort of "two and half dimensional" view, showing the proteins and other macromolecules but leaving out water and small ions. You see a cross section plus a little more, and it is actually very helpful in terms of understanding how things fit together in a cell. The first painting here is E. Coli and shows the center, full of DNA all crowded and twisted onto spools (nucleosomes), surrounded mostly by ribosomes which create proteins. Then there is the cell membrane and in this view, a flagellum (which acts as a propeller).

    This helps to understand the magnitude of Venter's project. DNA really does take up the majority of space in a cell like this. It's true that he's using the ribosomes and such that were already there, but replacing the DNA will totally change how the cell works and functions.

    It will be interesting to see what happens if they add DNA for a structure like a flagellum which does not exist in the "donor" cell, or for a cell that is shaped very differently than the donor. The new cell should start to grow the appendages or change its shape appropriately. Some pretty freaky experiments will be possible.

  50. Re:I get scared - Movie plot! by flatulus · · Score: 1

    12 Monkeys

  51. alternative headline: "Venter hacks mycoplasma" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Venter is a pretty smart guy. He knows how to stimulate public imagination and raise more capital for more adventures in his lab. By trimming the M. genitalium genome by 20%, has he "created life"? That's a very good question. How about your biomedical friend who knocked out a single yeast gene, thereby altering the expression profile of more than 50% of yeast genes in the new yeast strain (a common occurrence, I assure you). Has your friend created artifical life?

    If the announcement is in the form of a conference/symposium, rest assured there is probably some meat to it. As well as a lot of hype. Let us judge the importance of it after seeing what his M. genitalium hack actually achieved.

  52. Would you kindly... by Mantrid42 · · Score: 1

    Cut to the chase and tell me how long until I can start splicing? There's nothing quite like a fist full of lightning.

  53. The Next Step by Polemicist · · Score: 2
    I must say that I agree that this is an important advance, but that it is far from fully artificial life. The question remains as to whether the quote "I am creating artificial life" came as a direct quote or as the attention-grabbing headline that the reporter got from the interview (I haven't seen it as a direct quote yet, but correct me if I missed it). The importance of the advance is that the chromosome that was created will be taking control of the basic functions of the cell, which is much more ambitious than any current projects have been that add only a small number of genes to modify a particular response or character.


    A small correction to Teancum's reading of the article, the next step would be to create an artificial *prokaryote* or bacteria, not a eukaryote. The goal of eukaryotic life being made in the lab is quite a ways away, since it would require the ability to create a working nucleus/nuclear-pore system for moving mRNA to the rest of the cell, as well as the creation of many membrane bound organelles (mitochodria, chloroplasts -- if it is a plant, endoplasmic reticulum, golgi apparatus, etc) which are functionally important to the cell. The goal of prokaryotic artificial life is much closer as the DNA is translated to mRNA in the cytoplasm, and all processes are conducted without the more sophisticated organelles. In fact, Mycoplasma genitalium, the bacteria used, follows this line of thought, and his new 'species' is called Mycoplasma laboratorium (a very creative name). Other than that, you are right on your points Teancum.


    The good news on this goal is that much of the technology needed is available. We can currently create artificially plasma membranes (though the bilayer specific phospholipids found in living cells tend to be mixed into both of the bilayers), and as shown by Ventor, we can create the necessary chromosomes. Much remains to do, but we are getting closer.


    Unfortunately, our current understanding of protein structure and function as based on the raw DNA code is still lacking, and so any chromosome, including Ventors, would not be original in the genetic coding, but would rather be a spliced together collection of genes that we know the function of (I believe his goal was the minimum necessary genome). To be truly artificial life, it would need to be a base by base creation.


    Many people are against this kind of work, out of fears of it harming humans or intermixing with natural bacteria. One solution to this, which can only take place once we have the knowledge to design every protein and base pair of a cell, would be to create a new genetic code. I believe Dr. James Watson (who proved that DNA was the heritable material of all life) proposed a scheme that he thought was the real one (before we actually determined it). I am fairly certain it is in his book "DNA: the Secret of Life" and it is so far off of what we have now, if we gave it to artificial bacteria and it was transferred to other natural bacteria, they would only see junk in the code. It might even prevent the bacteria from becoming virulent to humans, but this might not be guaranteed.

    --
    We are made wise not by the collection of our past, but by the responsibility for our future. -George Bernard Shaw
  54. Get off the ARPA net, bitch. by copponex · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    See?

    1. Re:Get off the ARPA net, bitch. by janrinok · · Score: 1

      Yes, but ARPPNet doesn't actually kill anybody. It might cause RSI in a small number of people who overindulge in pron, but that is about the extent of its dangers to the individual (despite what many might have you to believe). I'm not saying that defence spending hasn't funded some marvellous scientific advances but it is still sad to see that one of the three 'benefits' of this discovery mentioned in the summary includes how it might be useful as a way of killing more of our own kind in the future. Is that the best that they can come up with? What a sad race we have become....

      --
      Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
    2. Re:Get off the ARPA net, bitch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a sad race we have become....

      Shut up. Every day we become more civilized and less violent than the day before.

  55. Umm...So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >> could result in new ways to combat global warming
    >> and new drugs, but it could also lead to new bio-weapons.

    But will it result in smaller cell-phones?

  56. Another case of by n6kuy · · Score: 1, Funny

    Artificial Intelligent Design!

    --
    If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
  57. slashdot has a lot of faith... by LeonardsLiver · · Score: 1

    The headline reads "US Scientist Creates Artificial Life" instead of "US Scientist CLAIMS TO HAVE CREATED Artificial Life"

    Big difference.

  58. I disagree by z0M6 · · Score: 1

    It's like saying no one ever gets down to the core and uses assembly.

    But I don't really disagree. Just like computing has revolutionized our society, genetic programming will do the same. My bets are on bio-weapons > usefull stuff though.

    1. Re:I disagree by arminw · · Score: 3, Funny

      ......genetic programming will do the same.......

      So if humans do genetic programming, it's obviously designed. Otherwise it's random, mindless mutations, that just somehow happened over the course of billions of years. What useful code for computers has ever come about by any other means beside a human mind? So now human minds contemplate writing genetic code, yet those same human minds try to make themselves and the rest of us believe that the original genetic code did not originate in someone's mind, God's mind. Indeed, God expressing Himself through the Apostle Paul gives us His assessment in Chapter 1 of the Letter to the Romans:

      "But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools"

      In other news:

      Along with the "Creation of Life" some other patents were issued recently for "Cold Fusion", "Anti-Gravity" and a "Time-Travel" device dubbed "Stargate". Patents are also pending for "Eternal Youth" and "Perpetual Motion".

      --
      All theory is gray
    2. Re:I disagree by dedalus2000 · · Score: 1

      anthropomorphism is an expression of vanity.

      --
      My keyboads not woking popely.
    3. Re:I disagree by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Don't you see where this is going? We will write the genetic code for a superior being, who will write the genetic code for a more superior being.... fast forward a dozen generations and we'll have a seemingly-omnipotent life form who'll travel back in time to ensure life as we know is started.

  59. Reminds me of the old creationist joke by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 3, Funny

    One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.

    The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."

    God listened very patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well, how about this, let's say we have a man making contest." To which the scientist replied, "OK, great!"

    But God added, "Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."

    The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.

    God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!"

    --
    No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
  60. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

  61. i stopped reading here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tttfa: (The Title of The Fucking Article)

    I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneer

      Scientist has made synthetic chromosome
      Breakthrough could combat global warming ... and then my brain exploded.

  62. Potential for human stupidity to interfere? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

    Isn't this wrong? As in, completely and utterly wrong due to the potential of destroying ourselves if me make screwing with this technology a precedent? That even assumes that we didn't just get it wrong the first time around (this time) and destroy ourselves turning this chromosome into an organism. Didn't nuclear weapons teach us that lesson, or is the world blind? facebook group "The New Times" or myspace.com/thenewtimes for a longer interpretation of our current situation. This is one of the topics I deal with.

    1. Re:Potential for human stupidity to interfere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this wrong? As in, completely and utterly wrong due to the potential of destroying ourselves if me make screwing with this technology a precedent? That even assumes that we didn't just get it wrong the first time around (this time) and destroy ourselves bringing this thing called fire into our caves. Didn't the spear teach us that lesson, or is the world blind?

      There, fixed if for you.

  63. Here's a fun one... by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 1

    Suppose they eventually get to the point where creating and implanting customized genetic code is trivial. What's next? Creating code that will make the implanted cells start construction of totally new cells from scratch using loose chemicals available in the body already without the usual cell-division mechanism, and finish by delivering a viral payload of secondary genetic code? Will that satisfy the conditions of "creating" new life, or will it fail because we still used a middle-man for the construction?

    The cells may not be true nanobots, but they're still machines carrying out our commands.

    Realistically though, I find it kind of pointless to add in the whole qualifier of outer cellular creation, since it's unlikely to ever be used. Why reinvent the entire wheel when you just need different spokes? Most likely, we'll create a custom code set to get existing cells to replicate themselves into a neutral "blank" state, then just virally infect the whole batch with the code we need at the time.

    --


    8==8 Bones 8==8
  64. Re:life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Soviet Russia? Is that you?

  65. can't have a patent by mdsolar · · Score: 1

    He's using generic code so it can't be non-obvious.

    This is joke, however lame....

  66. mod parent down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    completely unfunny and overrated.

  67. God-chmod! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    One step closer to the half-man, half-monkey-type creature!

    1. Re:God-chmod! by AlgorithMan · · Score: 1

      never heared about this species?

      --
      The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
    2. Re:God-chmod! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      That's a half man, half chimp. I want a half man, half monkey. It's gotta have a tail.

  68. Creationism is alive and well! by Whiteox · · Score: 1

    HAHAHAHA! Intelligent design? Looks like it's happening!
    Unless someone could prove that Venter is not intelligent, I think the Creationists win this one!

    Now who said (paraphrase) "There is nothing new that hasn't been done yet."???

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  69. Conway created Life in the 70s... by akpoff · · Score: 1

    John Horton Conway just left implementation as an exercise for the reader.

  70. DNA = life? by so+many+toms+(me+too · · Score: 1

    ... [the DNA] is then transplanted into a living bacterial cell and in the final stage of the process it is expected to take control of the cell and in effect become a new life form. The team of scientists has already successfully transplanted the genome of one type of bacterium into the cell of another, effectively changing the cell's species. Mr Venter said he was "100% confident" the same technique would work for the artificially created chromosome. So... he creates the 'living' DNA and then transplants it into something living... and thus it is alive?
  71. intresting how it always solves modern problems.. by PermanentMarker · · Score: 1

    So it could potentialy solve globalwarming, or be a cancer drugs or create hydrogen or whatever. Just what is a hot topic at the moment, it can produce. While allready in those fields (globalwarming, cancer etc) they know it is quite hard to find solutions. Because understanding of a cause is difficult, finding a theoretical design solution (has not even been done) but allready we have something that can do it... (ahum grin grin)

    While investor are not even sure if they will be sued by soms kind of believe who believe god patended life..
    Just imagine this bogus non used DNA was decoded as "copyright by..."
    joking..:))

    --
    I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
  72. Protein != life by n0vu5 · · Score: 1

    Sorry guys but .. it's not life till it can die. I commend this guys efforts, awesome stuff but.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life -- this is life.

  73. 42? by tacocat · · Score: 1

    Let me see if I get this right...

    We live on a ball of dirt in space (with really nice fjords) and it's been working up random sequences of genetic code and testing the viability of each one over a period of what? 5 Billion years or something like that if you consider the pea-soup era of evolution.

    And now we have a chemist who is going to start the whole fucking process over again in his lab. Considering he's got to replicate 5 billion years of research he's got great job security. But what I'm not sure about is what is going to be the benefit of someone going through all the genetic combinations that have already been gone through by natural selection (or intelligent design if you prefer).

    I think it's cool he can do this, but can someone point out the value of starting over?

  74. Obligatory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Mycoplasma genitalium community won't be able to enjoy the changes made to its source code. This would have never happened if it had been released under the GPL!

  75. finally by AlgorithMan · · Score: 1

    finally! soon we'll have code-monkeys!

    --
    The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
  76. Creation by Telecart · · Score: 1

    When an artist creates, does he necessarily have to be the creator of the platform on which he creates..? Does a painter actually make paint - -and even then, say he actually made his own paint, you could still say he didn't make the rocks and plants and whatever of which the paint is made, and so the word 'create' loses all meaning, except when attributed to a first-cause god-thing. If humans can create anything - prose, sculpture, architecture or whatever - you must assume that create in this sense means something more akin to compose or synthesis rather than the biblical 'create' - even when it comes to life. I argued this point precisely on my blog.

  77. love those mobile goalposts by misanthrope101 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And if they created something like DNA, we'd hear that they didn't create the proteins from scratch. If they created proteins, we'd here that they didn't create the still more basic building blocks, down to matter itself. Then we'd hear that they didn't create the universe, or the physical constants by which existence is possible, or whatever. No, I'm not saying that he created artificial life. But I've heard the "and God said, 'get your own dirt'" joke before, and as funny as it was at the time, I don't really like the smug we're-smarter-than-those scientists mentality I see behind it. When anti-intellectual populism shows its value in antibiotic research or in any other field of science, I may respect it more. Until then, I'm down with the science.

  78. Too complex to self-assemble by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    You'll be waiting for this call forever. The structure even of a single cell is immensely complex.

    Indeed. That's why Fred Hoyle (who discovered nucleosynthesis in stars, and coined the term "Big Bang") was correct to point out,

    If only ten amino acids of particular kinds are necessary at particular locations in a polypeptide chain for its proper functioning,
    the required arrangement (starting from an initially different arrangement) cannot be found by mutations, except as an outrageous
    fluke. Darwinian evolution is most unlikely to get even one polypeptide right, let alone the thousands on which living cells depend for their
    survival. This situation is well-known to geneticists and yet nobody seems prepared to blow the whistle decisively on the theory.


    At this time, it is futile for science to vainly pursue a bottom-up approach to artificial life, in hopes of demonstrating how the first living organism could have self-assembled out of the primordial soup.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  79. The biggest step of all is... by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    ...write genetic code that doesn't result in an abomination, like the Brundlefly.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  80. The Einstein of our time? by arrrrrpirates · · Score: 0

    Einstein gave us much of the theory to build the atomic bomb. Venter is giving us the technology to manipulate life as we know it.

  81. PR at its best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Venter is a disgrace to science. He does mediocre research and uses a very efficennt PR machine to make it appear as if he has revolutioned science every second week. In fact, BACs and other artificial chromosomes were invented more than 30 years ago. Oligonucleotide synthesis is also as old (this is the only interesting part: large scale template-free DNA synthesis and assembley). Combining these two technologies is not really something revolutionary. Especially in light of the complete absence of any biological insight.
    It was the same with his latest genome sequencing article (his own genome). Nothing special about it (except that it took them 10 years, vary far from being an everyday technology suited for individual medicine). Just some PR works, some misleading numbers to make people believe that they have made a radical new discovery (summing indels and substitutions in order to claim that diversity is higher than previously reported).
    I find this behaviour so offenisve towards the thousands of scientists who are anonymously doing their hard work in their lab, and that even when they make a truly revolutionary discovery, don't go out and brag about it.