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FBI Accused of Abusing Criminal Database
Peace protesters were unable to leave the country to speak in Canada because their names had been added to a database of criminals. There's a serious due-process violation here because a listing in this database is equivalent to an "infamous" conviction. "'The FBI's placing of peace activists on an international criminal database is blatant political intimidation of US citizens opposed to Bush administration policies,' says Colonel Wright, who was also Deputy US Ambassador in four countries. 'The Canadian government should certainly not accept this FBI database as the criteria for entering the country... The list is supposed to be for felony and serious misdemeanor offenses. We don't qualify — it's for sex offenders, foreign fugitives, gang violence and terrorist organizations, people who are on parole...'"
To me, it is like the boy who cries wolf. If the FBI puts out "criminal" warnings on too many peace protestors, then the international criminal database will start ignoring FBI criminal warnings, allowing true criminals to exit the country and get away from prosecution. Way to go boys!
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
FBI Director Edgeworth had no comment.
If it can be abused, it will. No news here. I'm sure a DNA data base will never be abused either. America is becoming a fascist nation. It's not there yet, but it's heading in that direction.
You're aware of what "OpEd" or "Editorial" means, right?
Does it not depend on what "peace activists" do? I agree some are peaceful.
If you get arrested you got arrested. It might not have been a fair arrest and there should be a process to explain yourself and get past the authorities. BUT, and this is the big BUT how is the border person going to know the difference? There are peace activists that should not be put on the list and then there are some that should be on the list and then some.
If anything there should be a process to talk about these sorts of things.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
A few years ago, a US anti-war activist named Scott Parkin was seized in the streets of Melbourne, Australia, on his way to a seminar on "non-violent resistance", detained for a week and deported as a "threat to national security", on the basis of intelligence which has still not been made public. Could this database have been the intelligence in question?
... I was not that long ago thinking about taking up a job in the US and moving there! I'm glad I didn't, as I really don't like what the US has become over the past few years under the Bush administration. I hope the next election will bring some change, but I fear Americans will just elect another candidate based on whatever the media is feeding them, not what the candidate is actually about. Still I am hopefull enough Americans have learned their lesson, and will take a different course! I've been to the US many times, and the people I've met are great, too bad some rotten apples managed to take control of the country!
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63
Thank Jebus we have keyboard warriors like yourself helping change the world.
Congratulations all you non-voters who have kept these people in power for so long. Now that everyone is safe, don't you feel much better?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Why is it that everytime the US government asks for an increase in powers, they always deny that it will be abused. And I defy anyone to come up with an example of a federal power that was granted and NOT abused. Although I am a political liberal and I do think that government can provide a useful service, I feel that this type of invasive power is an example of government at its worst.
So let me see if I have this straight:
1) The were denied entry on Aug 19 cause they have a criminal conviction.
2) They tried again 2 weeks later (without filling the paperwork), and were denied entry.
3) American Citizens are trying to tell the Canadian Government what their criteria for entry should be?
If there is a problem with the FBI, focus on that. Do not (under any circumstances) tell my government how to run our border - it is none of your damn business.
Yes I'm pro-peace - but I don't respect stupid political stunts with bs conclusions.
Anon
You're telling me that people in law enforcement are abusing their authoritah? No, I simply cannot believe it! I've never seen a cop doing 20 over the speed limit with no lights and thus no reason to be disobeying traffic laws. I've never heard about cops shooting black men and planting a weapon on the body or planting drugs on people they've arrested. I've never heard of the FBI conducting surveillance on people whose only offense was getting on the bad side of a certain transvestite cocksucker whose name rhymes with Hoover. Nooooo. Law enforcement officials have nothing but respect for the law and the American citizen. They will be the first to tell you that they want no more p owers than the minimum required to do their jobs effectively, for they know that our greatest treasure is our freedom and the more onerous the law, the more those freedoms are threatened.
Sarcasm, moi? Perish the thought!
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"The Canadian government should certainly not accept this FBI database as the criteria for entering the country"
..."
"It's outrageous that Canada is turning away peacemakers
Fix your own government and your own government database before you complain about someones else's government.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
OBJECTION!
captcha: overdone. I totally agree.
...if they want to have their names removed from the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database, which appears to be what the Canadian officials pulled. The NCIC "is provided by the FBI, federal, state, local and foreign criminal justice agencies, and authorized courts." Thus, the NCIC is made up of FBI data and data provided to the FBI by other government organizations. To correct a record in this database, "the subject of the requested record shall request the appropriate arresting agency, court, or correctional agency to initiate action necessary to correct any stated inaccuracy in subject's record or provide the information needed to make the record complete." Unfortunately, accessing the record in the first place can be a challenge; it looks like it requires being fingerprinted and making the request through a law enforcement agency that has access to the record. More information is available here.
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htmI worked as an Immigration Officer with the Canada Border Services Agency. My duties included evaluating whether individuals were admissible to Canada based on the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. The following is my personal opinion and I don't represent the Government of Canada. Also, this is not legal advice and I accept no liability.
Yes, we do have access to NCIC the FBI criminal database and we do use it as supporting evidence when we're determining if someone is inadmissible to Canada based on criminality. However, I never seen anything in the database that is not: (a) an arrest record, (b) a record of court proceedings, or (c) a warrrent/lookout/restraining order.
I can tell you that "listing in this database" is only equivalent to "a conviction" when it says exactly what you were charged and convicted of. For example, it will show you were arrested for Assault on such and such date. The next record will show that you appeared in court on such and such a date. It will then show the judge's opinion, followed by a sentence if you were found guilty.
The only ambiguity arises when the offence is not a serious misdemeanor. The problem occurs because it is up to the individual state court's to file the necessary paperwork with NCIC to have the information put into the database. Sometimes these clerks are busy and backlogged and never get around to inputting the judgement of the court into the database. In that instance, it will show you were arrested for "driving while intoxicated" but will not show if you were found guilty or not guilty. In this case, the onus is on the individual entering Canada to prove that they are not inadmissible based on criminality. The reason is that we officers are making a decision on the balance of probabilities and having evidence of possible criminal activity usually outweighs the individual's word.
I have never had someone's criminal record simply say "Peace Activist" or something equally silly. Unless you were convicted of a criminal offence, or it's reasonable for me to believe you have, then you are not going to be refused entry for criminality.
The above may contain some errors or it may be unclear. I don't have time to proofread it before work.
Remember, "What do I have to hide? I've done nothing wrong." This article and the database it describes, are yet another example of what is wrong with that quote, for what it is really saying is "guilty until proven innocent" and even if you are innocent, you will be treated as a criminal.
---
'The FBI's placing of peace activists on an international criminal database is blatant political intimidation of US citizens opposed to Bush administration policies,' says Colonel Wright, who was also Deputy US Ambassador in four countries
---
*ahem* Excuse me? Opposed to Bush administration policies? What has this guy been smoking? This kind of blantant political intimidation is Exactly according to these so called Bush administration policies.. you need but look back at what changes this administration has done in their own country. Their.. own.. country. I'm not talking about foreign policy here, oh no.. look at what these creeps have done to Americans. Claiming that these things will change back when "the threat" is over.. yeah right. Sure they will. Go watch TV, that's a good boy.
The FBI is blocked from further investigating into Blackwater, since, just as a precaution, Blackwater guards (read: mercenaries with no jurisdiction and oversight) have been granted immunity prior to entering the fray. Though I'm still not sure whether this qualifies as *fumtu* or not..
It doesn't take a conviction to get into the NCIC. All it takes is an arrest, and let's face it folks, most peace terrorists have been arrested in their lifetimes, usually for disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, vandalism, and other misdemeanor crimes.
There's a serious due-process violation here because a listing in this database is equivalent to an "infamous" conviction.
What does this sentence mean?
I'm pretty sure the rules are that no one should be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process. Liberty doesn't extend to cross-border travel in general because nations have the inherent authority to control their borders. No life or property was involved.
So what is the author talking about? It's completely unclear. I could guess it's just generic whining, but I'd really rather know the answer to the question: What is the author talking about?
The Canadian government should certainly not accept this FBI database as the criteria for entering the country
Yeah. Why wouldn't Canada want huge numbers of protesters in their country causing trouble? They're really missing out on all that valuable, constructive protesting that these paragons of civilization would be engaging in.
Canada is no different than anywhere else. Almost any government would shut out these protesters if they could. In a practical sense, they are a useless pain in the ass. Canada figured out a legal way to solve part of their problem.
One word: COINTELPRO.
From TFA: If, when you are asked by a Canadian immigration officer if you have been arrested, they check the FBI database and that's how they found we were listed.
So did they lie about being arrested then immigration checked and caught them in the lie?
Also, it was the second time they had been up to the border, having been turned away previously.
Nothing more than showboating by a bunch of narssistic liberals masquerading as peace activists.
Code Pink et.al is a bunch of far left wackos that I would expect even the leftward careening slashdot crowd would find distasteful if they came to their neighborhood.
Why would the US allow great sources of food like peace activists to leave the country? Will somebody think about the children!
A friend of mine was a non-violent peace protester from the 60s (he had many police abuse stories) and whenever there was an arrest, it was never for "peace protester". It would be for "disturbing the peace", "assaulting a police officer", failure to follow police orders (whatever it's really called), causing a public disturbance rioting, etc...
So, in that database, would it give a context for the arrest?
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
For those that haven't read TFA, this is CODEPINK we're talking about. Yes, the same CODEPINK chicks that sneak into the house of reps / state of the union / etc and then start going batshit crazy (because that's an effective method of communication). I'm pretty sure that "sneaking" into US government buildings and causing a ruckus would likely be enough to get yourself on certain lists.
Remember, they had actually been arrested, and who is to say what an infamous crime is? Like almost all of the American constitution it is extremely ill defined, if at all. (i.e. "UnAmerican")
p.s. I think that the Bush administration does abuse it's power and adding these people to the international criminal database is stretching the law (to say the least). The point I am trying to make is tighten up your constitution or things like this will keep happening.
America, Home of the Brave.
Because USA, since the advent of the so-called "war on terror" slips deeper and deeper into police-state dictatorship ... ...
And my own country, France, is home of GWB's new lapdog
China ??
The USA has finally outlawed complaining! I'm moving down there now.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Another bad thing is that it seems that these people can't actually run the government well, they only they are capable of doing correctly is character assassination, whether that be republican political opponents or civil rights activists. They're fucking incompetent in doing everything else. How long must we endure this? Oh yeah, it's right here.
Now I wonder if the next president will reverse this trend? If you listen to the Republican candidates, all they seem to care about perpetuating the policies that are ruining our government. The democrats seem like they're more level-headed, but I wonder if they have the courage to change the status quo, because they haven't done a damn thing since gaining congress. Where's Roosevelt when you need him?
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
aside from the mentioning of a database i really don't see the reason that this is posted here.
oh that's right. kdawson is yet again using slashdot as his soapbox to push his own political agenda.
it's getting really fucking old.
That would mean that the listings are correct. They'd have to go through the work of getting their records expunged, sealed, or pardoned. All unlikely to happen as long as their position is:I get news about the requirements for crossing into Canada occasionally - I live only ~45 minutes from the border.
The Canadians have access to our criminal records to the point that their check will find out if you have a DUI, or even certain serious traffic offenses, so the level of crime required to get into whatever database they check must be pretty low.
DUI is specifically mentioned because it has the same requirements for entry as these women are complaining about, except I remember a fee being involved.
I don't read AC A human right
"If you're simply charged with a single misdemeanor from a long time ago and it doesn't fall into a higher category, it is unlikely that you'll be inadmissible for that single offence."
In other words, Canada will only accept people who have not recently been arrested for lying on the ground in nonviolent protest. On the other hand, if you regularly do this, as was common during the US civil rights movement, Canada wants nothing to do with you. If they were still around today (and their various arrests were more recent), could MLK or Rosa Parks get into Canada? How about their lesser-known followers?
And it's really depressing to note that even now, the majority of Americans see no problem with ripping up or ignoring international law and treaties, so long as they're told it's being done to "terrorists". On the contrary, Republican candidates are competing to make the most outraegously statement of support for the blatantly criminal action that is Guantanamo. Very, very sad (speaking as a non-American.)
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
People think the govt. should have unlimited authority, but the very real certainty for abuse never occurs to them. (And it **will** be abused.)
When the next administration (or the next one after that) starts committing really outrageous abuses, I hope like hell it's a Democrat so I can listen to the Republicans screaming their heads off.
These people were labled and punished for being dangerous criminals without due process. They wanted to go to Canada but were not able to do so without being "criminally rehabilitated."
The Canadian government was tricked. They agreed to use a US database of dangerous criminals and were told that it contained lists of people who had committed or were facing charges for eight violent crimes. The FBI added these people to the list for something else.
If I were a Canadian, I'd say the list was no longer dependable and demand my government quit using it.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
You'd be better off moving/staying in Canada, who denied the complainers entry.
I don't read AC A human right
Insofar as King, the memo regarding COINTELPRO against blacks said "The Counterintelligence Program is now being expanded to include 41 offices... For maximum effectiveness of the Counterintelligence Program, and to prevent wasted effort, long range goals are being set...Prevent the rise of a 'messiah' who could unify, and electrify, the militant black nationalist movement...King could be a very real contender for this position should he abandon his supposed 'obedience' to 'white, liberal doctrines'". This is simply a secret police, a political police, trying to undermine the democratic process in this country. I know old-timer activists from the 1960s who found out due to FOIAs that the FBI had tried to get them fired from their jobs by sending anonymous letters to their employers.
Then on Fox News they whine how the liberals shackled the CIA and FBI in the 1970s - they neglect to mention how Nixon's White House staff, including old CIA hands like Hunt, were doing things like breaking into the Democratic Party campaign headquarters at the Watergate hotel however. The CIA was undermining democratic governments not only in places like Chile, but in Australia (Whitlam affair) and Italy (P2, Gladio). Even after the FBI was supposedly cleaned up in the 1970s, Reagan had them trying to seduce nuns (who were unhappy about nuns being raped and hacked up in El Salvador, as well as the archbishop being assassinated) involved in CISPES. Now with the Patriot Act etc., all of the constraints and watchdog functions over these organizations have disappeared.
When the next administration (or the next one after that) starts committing really outrageous abuses, I hope like hell it's a Democrat so I can listen to the Republicans screaming their heads off.
Thank you for buying into party lines. When will you see people as people and not a party member? As long as you keep buying into this ridiculous two-party culture nothing is going to really change.
And if that is too much to ask of you, what are *you* going to do if the Democrats take office and the abuse doesn't stop? Are you going to see it as something going dreadfully wrong or just shrug it off as being justifiable since it's sponsored by your little political crutch?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
"The thing is, not everyone who gets arrested normally gets put on that list."
Source this please.
I see a few people discussing the actual standards, but like you, none of them has provided a decent source.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
Years ago, I think it was during the first Clinton campaign, a russian reporter commented that with the two candidates, the requirement that questions be submitted in advance, the carefully screened events etc etc, it was becoming more and more like the USSR elections he used to "report" on before the collapse.
This is NOT a slam against the US, most countries are going through this at the moment. It isn't even about any polical leaning, Labour in Great Britian is supposed to be left. It just seems as if we seem destined to go to more and more restrictions on our freedoms, in the name of protecting us. Except that it never seems to be about us, but rather the people already in power.
That is not what has me worried. What worries me is how little the comman man cares about it all. Bread and Circusses, it really seems true. Give them reality tv, and the masses will keep queit. Move people vote on Idol then on elections. Starlets get more news coverage then the war.
What I think has happened is that we have led the press become too commercial, they were supposed to be the watchdog of the goverment, instead we allowed them to become slaves to the dollar, worried about ever increasing viewing figures/profits instead of reporting the news.
Paranoids don't help, sometimes I think they are a plot in themselves, by coming up with insane theories while the simplest is simply that the fast majority of news outlets are owned by just a handfull of people.
And who is going to report on the press going bad? The press? It is all a simply slippery slope. Where does it end? The rush to have scoop first, leads news outlet after news ooutlet to report stories that later turn out to be false. Some people even put scams up in order to prove this and NEVER FAIL. Does the media do anything with it? Holland has had one recently, how many reporters/editors were fired? None.
The first time a reporter agreed not to ask a question duing a press conference that led to now questions having to be asked in advance all the way to staged FEMA press-conference.
But hey, there is good news, in the 2008 elections, old USSR reporters can relive the old times.
The dutch news is a prime example, the intros have gotten longer and flashier, total airtime has shrunk, what time remains is now wasted on pre-views and recaps of things that are in that same news program, more time is spend on weather and sports. It was during gulf war 1 that the dutch news had a 5 minute segment of the queen opening some art exhibit. The US got Britney Spears, we got Maxima, no dear news editor, a new royal being born is NOT headline news, it is at best a human interest story, worth no more then a 20 second segment at the end of the news.
If you want to see why democracy is failing, watch the news. It will become painfully clear when you realize that the actuall NEWS content is starting to approach zero.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
How dare you mod e down for calling someone a racist when they are ACTUALLY EXHIBITING THEIR RACISM.
"Nigger", "Spic" and "kike" wouldn't be tolerated, but apparently it's ok to be a racist as long as it's rednecks you're racist against.
FUCK YOU MOD, you disgusting racism supporting piece of shit.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
you know, half-truths
what happened is some people had some convictions, and canada saw that on their files, and wouldn't let them in the country
it doesn't have anything to do with bush or his policies, it doesn't have anything to do with "peace protestors"
but as you can see in posts below, the usual kneejerk idiots are inflating their sense of outrage over further proof of the machinations of the eviiiiil bush
look, bush is a moron, probably the worst president the usa ever had. but if this situation seriously inflames your passions about him, you are bigger moron than he is. what happened would happen under any administration, at any time
furthermore, in a little over a year, he will be gone from the white house. then who will you complain about? you think anything will change?
some of you really need to stop being such obvious propagandized partisan morons
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
There have been a lot of these situations; someone is _accused_ and the media adjudicates the case. See also: a host of Republicans indicted, but never proven to have done anything, yet stepping down due to the party conviction. There was the "cold blooded killing of civilians" in Haditha, the "extreme torture" in AbuGraib. And each of these situations don't come CLOSE to reality, but it plays well on the dinosaur media. Personally I'm sick of hearing who's been _accused_, but wake me when someone's been *proven* guilty of something, aye?
Like the Congressman from Louisiana, William Jefferson (D) who was seen wrangling National Guardsmen to rescue his fridge from Katrina, later accused of storing $90,000 in there. Yet he goes to work every day, keeps voting like nothing happened, and I suppose nothing will.
I know there's a lot of paranoia in the demographic here, and ordinarily I'm keeping a watch along side you. But:
a) There's a very real danger now, as terrorists have-or-will-soon-get a nuclear bomb, and it's not a scientific exercise; it's meant for killing....probably a lot of us, in this audience living in NYC. We have to be watching.
b) I'm worn out from the tired old "Bush lied" and "We're starting a theocracy" panic lines I hear over and over. We're nowhere near that, either.
But it's interesting how, despite the fears of an potential American theocracy (from just a moment of silence or Christmas decorations) that a lot of this crowd forgets the *real* and *existing* theocracy that has us in it's sights. And we're making allowances for them- prayer rugs, permission to leave class 5 times a day, etc.
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
It's a culture and a belief system, which does not afford you the protections you think you deserve.
Blar.
This story is tagged with "opinionpiece" - the latest BS campaign from the rightwing political PR industry. When these people refer to something controversial in the public discussion as "it's just an opinion piece", they're implying that it should be ignored. Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck offer a demented police state to tens of millions of viewers? Don't worry, "it's just an opinion piece". Al Gore says scientists are shocked at how much faster the Arctic melted this year than their worst fears? Don't worry, "it's just an opinion piece".
Yes, it's an opinion piece. The opinions based on solid facts, held together with solid logic, especially the ones offering compassion with people like you who got screwed (so you could be next), those opinion pieces are important. The Constitution is an opinion piece.
Some opinion pieces, that aren't derived from rigorous and fair thinking, are indeed worthless. But when you ignore an explanation of how the FBI is framing innocent activists with crimes that shut down their rights, you're helping destroy those rights. When you push the "ignore the opinion piece" line, you're leading the destruction.
Yeah, everyone's got one. But like asses, some are better than others, some should never see the light of day, and some should be prized by anyone who can get a look.
--
make install -not war
Its Canada's fault. The FBI publishes multiple lists. The Canadians block for any arrest or conviction. I've seen them turn away tourists from the USA for a previous DUI arrest.
Why would anyone other than these people want to go there anyway. The lakes back east are polluted with acid rain, fish are dead. Raw sewage is dumped into the Pacific. Oh, I forgot, prescriptions cost 1/10 what they do in the US. Get me a ticket!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
The Battle of Blair Mountain was the largest organized armed uprising in American labor history and led almost directly to the labor laws currently in effect in the United States of America. For nearly a week in late August and early September 1921, in Logan County, West Virginia, between 10,000 and 15,000 coal miners confronted state and federal troops in an effort to unionize the southwestern West Virginia mine counties. Unionization had succeeded elsewhere as part of a demographic boom that was triggered by the extension of the railroad and was characterized by unprecedented immigrant hiring and exploitation in the region. The battle was the final act in a series of violent clashes that have also been termed the Redneck War, from the color of bandannas worn by the miners around their necks for friend-or-foe identification, and the likely impetus of the common usage of the original Scottish term redneck in the vernacular of the United States.
Yeah, I guess in your twisted racist world, people who fight for their rights and the rights of their fellow man are "Under-achieving White Trash".
I hope you feel like an asshole, you certainly act like one.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
I'm pretty sure you don't know who or what you're talking about, but don't let that stop you from making snide remarks.
Quick summary, for the ADD folks: The activists correctly appear in the NCIC, and the Canadian border guard correctly denied entry to them. They could file some paperwork to clear things up, but they'd rather play the martyr role and grab attention.
More details: The NCIC lists everyone who has been arrested for anything, along with the disposition of the charges (conviction, dismissal, acquittal, etc.) If you're arrested for anything, you go into the NCIC.
The activists in question are fond of getting arrested and convicted on purpose, so it should be no shock that when they tried to enter Canada, the border guard's computer lit up like a Christmas tree. These chicks have rap sheets a mile long.
Canada's admittance policy is public, and you can look it up if you want to. Their eligibility for entry into Canada will depend on the severity of their convictions, and how long it's been since the convictions (time differs for different severities). There is a straightforward formula, and it is not up to the border guard to judge whether or not they are eligible.
This article is sensationalist, and factually wrong. Just so you know.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
See, that's a post that fits your stated criteria quite nicely.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
There are a few voters who get to see the presidential candidates with their own eyes, and ask them questions. These are the voters of New Hampshire, who traditionally have a large voice in the presidential election process.
They didn't say that the information in NCIC was inaccurate, just that they are "special" and shouldn't have been in the database. It's up to Canada to set and enforce their border policy. They refuse entry to many people who have been convicted of minor crimes. If they want to exclude people that have been arrested and convicted of a crime associated with a political protest, they are free to do so. It is possible to be a dissident without engaging in criminal acts. It just might not get you on the 6 o'clock news.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I'm not sure she does not belong on the list but I am sure if someon goes on that list there better be a process and specific reason:
It could be that her belief that those who destroy property in protest should not be arrested
"There has been some controversy about a quote from me that... implied that I was calling for the arrest of those people who destroyed property in downtown Seattle during the WTO protest. I want to make it clear that the quote was distorted, taken out of context, and not reflective my true feelings. I did not call for the arrest of anyone..."
Then again maybe she has no business on the list but there needs to be an audit trail either way..
The biggest problem here is that the Executive branch has all the agencies, and whenever the leftists win a bigger government vote all the extra people in the bigger government are at the Executive branch's disposal.
Congress has some support staff, as do the justices of the Supreme Court. There are roughly two million civilian personnel of the federal government outside the Postal Service. For 535 people or 9 people to hold responsible two million individuals who are neither elected by nor directly responsible to the people is a bit ludicrous. The sheer size of the Executive branch makes accountability and the notion of checks and balances pretty difficult, even with the 94 federal district courts involved.
The Judiciary simply must be larger or the Executive smaller in order for the people to be properly served by checks and balances. In fact, I'd say the Judiciary really needs to be larger and account for more of the federal budget simply in order to guarantee a speedy trial as the sixth amendment promises while not putting undue strain on the court to shorten previous trials. Perhaps civil cases could be heard by a separate set of judges in each district specializing in civil cases, but I digress.
In any case, I'd think the huge Executive branch, with its apparent penchant for shifting blame and covering things up, is much too large right now for the other branches to balance it enough.
Do we really need 2 million people to provide federal government services to 303 million citizens on top of all the 16 million state, county, and city personnel providing services as well? In 2000, 19 million or so people were government employees (it doesn't say whether that includes revenue-generating government agencies like the Post Service). That's over 6% of the population living on taxes and borrowed money who are not elected, or over 14% of the total work force. I fail to see how that is sustainable, let alone sufficiently kept in check by state and federal courts and legislatures.
So in order to access the list to find out how to get on it, you give them another excuse to put you on it?
-Lars
Congress, by using the capitol police to abrogate the First Amendment right to petition, is responsible for giving the FBI the opening to misuse the database. Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiradcejA6o.
Since I came to leave here, I only can claim that during the last years of the Clinton era.
btw, I leave on California, so I do not think that people is so stupid, but that was a real saying that I head
when I was a kid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain [wikipedia.org]
The Battle of Blair Mountain was the largest organized armed uprising in American labor history and led almost directly to the labor laws currently in effect in the United States of America. For nearly a week in late August and early September 1921, in Logan County, West Virginia, between 10,000 and 15,000 coal miners confronted state and federal troops in an effort to unionize the southwestern West Virginia mine counties. Unionization had succeeded elsewhere as part of a demographic boom that was triggered by the extension of the railroad and was characterized by unprecedented immigrant hiring and exploitation in the region. The battle was the final act in a series of violent clashes that have also been termed the Redneck War, from the color of bandannas worn by the miners around their necks for friend-or-foe identification, and the likely impetus of the common usage of the original Scottish term redneck in the vernacular of the United States.
Yeah, I guess in your twisted racist world, people who fight for their rights and the rights of their fellow man need to "learn to read, think, and stop fucking your sister".
I hope you feel like an asshole, you certainly act like one.
Lastly, find me a non-white redneck. Exactly.
Thanks for demonstrating YOUR racism too, I always knew you were a cunt, but now I have a reason beyond you being an abrasive douchebag.
I personally believed there were both noble and ignoble goals behind going to war in Iraq- I wasn't dumb enough to believe Saddam was supporting Al-Queda, or that our administration had nothing but good motives behind the invasion, but I knew Saddam was a horrible monster that had been a serious threat to his neighbors and stability in the region. Of course, it's clear now that if there were noble goals they were compromised by the incompetence of those in charge.
Napoleon once said 'never ascribe to malice what can be ascribed to incompetence'. I don't think it was unreasonable to assume that our administration was just incompetent instead of malicious. Now most people assume our leaders are both incompetent and malicious, but early on everything could have been explained by mere stupidity.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
... that read like it was written by a fourth grader.
An arrest does not constitute a criminal record. A criminal record is a record of criminal convictions.
remember the little bit about "innocent until proven guilty"?
No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
Hey! That was Funny, not a Troll...
Sarcasm is difficult, I admit.
(I am not racist or sexist, I am repeating what I have heard from others and what I believe many people's rationale will be for voting another Republican into office.)
Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
Ok, so let's look at the source URL of this... you go to the web page, and its a basically a left wing action site. I would be MORE than willing to bet that this is somehow the digital equivalent of the guy taking a dump in front of the white house while holding up an anti-war sign. He says he's getting hauled off to jail, to the media, because of his sign, and meanwhile the real issue is that he took the dump, so he could get hauled off to jail.
It's obvious from the get go that this isn't news... its a political news release, propaganda designed to rile people, and the dopes that bought into it, are well, just dopes. I wonder how much the original poster is either a zombie or an operative.
Either way, the story is a joke.
This is my sig.
Please note that all "In Soviet Russia..." jokes have now been replaced with "In post 9-11 America..."
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I will use \sarcasm{} tags next time...
But my point is, the NCIC isn't some secretive blacklist like the infamous no-fly list. The NCIC is detailed, you can view your record and correct it, if it's incorrect.
Here's what I find when I look further, unvarnished outrage:
The NCIC may not be as bad as no-fly lists but that makes it's abuse more shocking. The three arrests were for protesting and it is clear than the activists are not the violent felons the laws were designed to keep out of Canada. This is an evil political abuse that will keep these protesters legally out of Canada for five years.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Where you like to argue that 'hacker' does not mean 'cracker', even though the entirety of the world has shifted to that definition. Face it chum, today's rednecks aren't exactly fighting for unionization. Today's rednecks are conservative/republicans who decry science in exchange for faith, hate gays and believe whatever fear-mongering comes from their government. Today's rednecks come from states who need handouts at the Federal level to keep their governments in operation...the residents can't earn enough so the coastal states pick up the tab.
Seems like 87 years have changed some things...
Blar.
I mean, it thus should stop Paris Hilton ever going to Canada, no?
Insert
If there is a problem with the FBI, focus on that. Do not (under any circumstances) tell my government how to run our border - it is none of your damn business.
I agree, your border patrol people should not subscribe to a US generated list of who may cross your border. I have a feeling that's about to change and you will, once again, be in full control. As it is now:
" The border agents at the Rainbow Bridge at Niagara Falls who barred Medea and Ann said the mere fact that they were listed on the NCIC was sufficient to bar them from entry."DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Without changes in Canadian law, it will be five years before they can apply for entry.
Thanks for the link, it shows they never should have been on this list which is supposed to be for:
"Peace Protester" and "political adversary" don't seem to belong there. Use of this list for anything but it's purposes is a violation of law. The particular violation represents a violation of the victim's right to due process and a challenge to Canada's sovereignty.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
The title of TFA:
Whatever the merits of the list, it was not used to persecute these people in the USA. In fact, one hysterical clown from "Code Pink" (the outfit, whose members were denied entry to Canada) was recently allowed rather close to the Secretary of State. She and the other members of the organization were only ejected from the congressional hearing after the confrontation.
The complaints are directed at Canada:
We allow all sorts of lunacy here in the US, but I don't blame the Canadians for desireing (so to speak) to keep foreign lunatics out of their country.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I think that's an erroneous interpretation. It appears to mean that an individual who is in the database for having "been charged with serious and/or significant offenses" must have been fingerprinted or (if you read down a bit more) "three or more convictions for a violent felony or serious drug offense" (which seems redundant since it seems unlikely that anyone with that many serious convictions would not have a set of fingerprints on file).
Fingerprints are used in this system to ensure that an unauthorized person does not purport to be the subject in the NCIC database (perhaps using fake ID) to obtain information about that person.
is large enough that they can sustain a Bush veto of anything the Democrats do.
Repeat: the DEMOCRATS in Congress have not failed us. Often. Most of the time, the problem is that they lack the supermajority needed to overwhelm a united front of Republicans standing behind Bush's vetoes.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Yeah them were the days, OBTW that naked chick puts out if you got a black eye while being arrested!
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
How bad does it burn knowing I was right and you couldn't refute me?
And I especially love that you spew more ignorance though, that's so awesome that you think being ignorant and prejudiced is something to be proud of.
You made my point for me and didn't even realize it.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
"I know you are, but what am I?"
My bitch, as you demonstrated by doing exactly what I told you.
By the way, I plan to reference this thread every single time you post in the future. I'm sure it'll nicely frame your ridiculous attempts to spew propaganda.
Nicely done!
http://www.archive.org/details/TheEyeoftheStorm
Hm......
Can a nonliving object be criminal?
And HOW exactly did they abuse this inanimate object?
He is running as a Republican, but his ideas are far more conservative than those of any other candidate. He can truthfully be considered as a conservative libertarian. Read on:
He supports the repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act and all other recent legislation that has passed despite questionable constitutional merit. The restoration of our civil liberties is at the top of his agenda and he will work to disassemble the fascist workings that are currently gaining steam.
He supports sound economic policy, which is something that often seems ignored by every other federally elected official. He would end deficit spending and force the congress to stick to a budget.
He supports the end of political corruption and does not believe that congress should be allowed to continue channeling government funds to their corporate bedfellows.
He ardently supports the Constitution and the Bill of Rights which it contains. He has voted "no" thousands of times during his 10 terms in the House of Representatives, refusing to approve any measure which violates the spirit of the Constitution.
Please, read more about this guy. He's very smart, very honest, and very serious about turning this government around.
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
Couldn't the FBI just tattoo the forearms of peace protesters?
You "own me" the way my puppy does when it humps my leg after I say something simple enough for it to understand.
Thanks for leaping like a pet troll when I jerk your leash. Have a bath.
--
make install -not war
We don't want convicted drunks to come up here and kill our citizens by driving under the influence.
A friend of mind had a false "deadbeat dad" report made against him by his malicious ex-wife that got into the NY State "deadbeat dad" database even though he had *never* been behind on payments. This prevented him from getting a driver's license and through the national database from leaving the united states (his job involved international travel and his ex knew this).
His lawyer eventually won a court order for the state to remove it, and they responded to the judge that there was no delete capability on the state's database, its designers never considered the possibility of false reports. The judge threatened agency officials with contempt if they did not implement delete within a specified time frame, and he fined the ex-wife the cost to the state to design a delete feature for their database, which she is litigating. However, the state agency said that even when the delete feature was completed, they had no authority to get the *national* database to remove his false report, and doubted that the national database had delete capabilities either! His lawyer is still litigating the federal agencies that received the false report.