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FBI May Have Datamined Grocery Stores With Help From Credit Companies
An anonymous reader writes "Recent media reports indicate that in 2005-06, the FBI went trawling through grocery store records in order to track down Iranian terror cells. They hoped to locate 'Middle-Eastern terrorists' through the purchase of specific food items. Many of these items, though, are not sold through big-box supermarket chains, and the majority of mom and pop ethnic markets do not have the detailed computer purchase histories that Safeway or Whole Foods have. What the FBI seems to have done is instead put together a list of everyone who shopped at a Middle Eastern food market. All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data, and not the individual stores. If so, this could be the tip of a (potentially illegal) data-mining iceberg."
Falafil Inc. sues the FBI for defamation of character and loss of business.
My poetry site welcomes the unusual.
data-mining iceberg lettuce hovercraft eel overflow
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Why not just say anyone of middle-eastern descent is automatically a threat? That's basically what it's come down to. How in the world is food purchasing data related to terror suspects. Alienation only leads to more strife. This doesn't do anything but make relations worse.
I got a catholic block.
Better put Bill O'Reilly on the airport watch list then.
I know! One of my big hobbies is strapping on a bomb and muttering threats against the U.S. government, but with stories like this I'm afraid I might be taken for one of those terrorists.
I always use cash when I go to Achmed's Food Emporium with his "special" back room full of "good deals".
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Buying hunting ammunition? Pay cash. Buying food? Cash. Fireworks? Cash. Whether I have a reason to or not. And don't get me started on those "in-store discount cards".
If that's not racial profiling, I don't know what is?
:-P
Getting the information on anyone who purchased food at a Middle Eastern market? That's just crazy, and scarily over-broad.
Hell, I shop at Middle Eastern markets, and I'm about as pasty white as you get. I mean, where else am I gonna get some of those things? You can't buy them elsewhere, and they're just so damned yummy. Come to think of it, I shop at Latin Markets, Asian Markets, and Caribbean Markets -- does that make me a terrorist? Or merely someone who eats a lot of ethnic food?
This is like that now eerie joke about being arrested at an airport for "traveling while brown". Surely it's still legal and un-suspicious to buy ethnic food for crying out loud -- they're the only ones who have food worth eating.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Mohammad Atta ate for his last dinner...
at Pizza Hut across the street from the Portland Mall, in front of the South Portland Cinema, next to IHOP and a gas station. (I know that exact Pizza Hut) We must get the records of everyone that eats pizza, shops at a mall, watches movies, enjoys breakfast and buys gas!
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
I like how the article linked as a source ("All signs point to...") contains the phrase: I have no sources at all for my argument today. I have nothing to back it up other than a gut feeling.
If you read the CQ article, which is the only source of information here (the other two rely on it totally), it is not clear that this idiotic program was ever implemented to any extent whatever. It may have just been some words written on a napkin after a late night of drunken FBI 'brain'-storming.
I'm patiently waiting for the FBI to knock on my door and arrest me for all the ingredients I used (digested) in my attempts to create the perfect stink bomb.
Why is the FBI full of fucking idiots?
Sifting through billions of food purchases is not going to find a serious terror threat, not even when combined with any other data. For instance: John Ahmed Richardson has decided to become a terrorist after being recruited by militant persons. First, his flying lessons will not raise suspicions. Second, his explosives license for construction work will not either. Third, the chemical contaminants he will use to cause an eventual shutdown of a power grid are snuck into the country. Fourth, he hates fscking falafel.
So, all I can determine here is that the FBI is only interested in catching the stupid terrorists, or only able to do that, and does so to give itself a good name in the view of the public. Meanwhile actual and real determined terrorists work in secret and will manage to do what they desire without tipping off the FBI, the CIA, or any other law enforcement group. These law enforcement groups had valid actionable information about the 9/11 plot and ignored it. What good will it do them to find someone that likes Turkish food?
They all look like idiots!!
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We've become far too dependent on technology for trying to do actual investigative work. Data mining for ethnic foods? What happened to having a spy network in places that have known terrorists or security threats? Is the will even there to do this kind of first hand work or have we just given up and rely on computer algorithms to do the work for us?
Maybe someone within the FBI/NSA is pushing for technological solutions to do this kind of heavy lifting that used to be done by people. I don't know, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. We're not a meat and potatoes society anymore. People of every stripe are going out of their comfort zones and finding ethnic food really tasty (I am one of those people within the last 7-10 years). Do I get put on a watch list because I go through a month where I'm craving a good gyro and find the best place to get really good gyro is my local halal shop?
Shocking. But now all this food talk has made me hungry. Thanks FBI.
How is it more dangerous than the inside threat of Christian Fundamentalists that threaten the very nature of the US?
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
"Because people who grew up having to make their own food from scratch are going to suddenly stop doing that and start buying the Kraft brand."
And how many people who are just trying to eat healthier and get a bit of variety in their diet are they going to snag?
Or who go there because its convenient to rent a movie (a lot of these places rent movies, etc).
Kevin Smith on Prince
Everything we heard about the 9-11 operation (granted, it was filtered through the government) is that these were cash operations. And that only makes sense. Given the state of technology these days, the following rules for covert operation seem to make sense:
1. Operate cash-only to make your activities harder to track
2. Make sure you are not flashy with the cash, drawing suspicion
3. Shave the beard, drop the turban, live as western as possible
4. Do not flash the cash, keep yourself as average joe as possible
5. Don't use cell phones or be sure to swap out sim cards frequently, seeing as the cops can track the cells
From what I've read, the skilled terrorists really know how to operate under the radar. The covert communication technology of choice, the fax machine. Handwrite messages in Arabic, fax back and forth. The goverment agencies are short on translators. Even if the messages were sent in the clear, it would take them a long time to figure anything out, assuming it was intercepted. If any kind of codes are used, it takes even more time to figure it out.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
1) "The brainchild of top FBI counterterrorism officials Phil Mudd and Willie T. Hulon, according to well-informed sources, the project didn't last long. It was torpedoed by the head of the FBI's criminal investigations division, Michael A. Mason, who argued that putting somebody on a terrorist list for what they ate was ridiculous -- and possibly illegal."
2) "All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data" is a rather generous spin on a theory that the author simply made up.
3) Do Iranians eat falafel at all? I've never seen it in Persian restaurants. Or do none of you people know the difference between them and Arabs?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Every once in a while, buy a little bit of ham.
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
I keep thinking it would be fun to offer a randomizing service for discount cards. Get a web site somewhere and have people mail you their discount card with a self-addressed stamped envelope. Pull one out of a box and return that, and drop the one you got into a box. The very paranoid could do this every month or two. Make it very hard to track anyone's purchases.
Of course, then your name might get associated with someone who is buying strange stuff. But if that occurred in another state, it would probably be easy to show it had nothing to do with you. Of course the supermarket chain would be likely to never want to sell anything to you again.
I also wonder how long such a site would be in existence before the stores hired legal hit men to take it down in court.
You don't understand how datamining works. Records of you shopping for Islamic food by and in itself is irrelevant. Nobody is going to throw you in jail because you love a falaffel now and then
However, once FBI computers have access to hundreds of unrelated databases, they can do things like
RETURN PERSON ID where gender is a male AND between 17-35 AND shops at Islamic stores AND has expired visa AND received large cash transfers from an Islamic country AND bought a one-way ticket on an airplane AND is on the same flight as others of that class.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
I think that it's even more insidious than what you describe. It's not even being Middle Eastern that attracts the attention of authorities in this matter, but rather what food you purchase.
This isn't even targeted ethnic discrimination, but rather a blatant foray into the realm of persecuting any deviation from the "american norm". To me, this says: "What, you don't purchase apple pies, soda, and hamburger? Instead you buy pita, chickpeas, and lamb? You're not like us... thus you are an enemy"
This is not just ethnic profiling run amock, but rather the beginnings of persecuting any differences from the average. The logical continuation of this policy would be to data mine television watching habits, and blacklist those who do not watch reality TV... or better yet, flag anyone whose TV is turned on for less than 2 hours per day.
Bill O'Reilly likes falafel too, so you should be safe.
Completely unsubstantiated BS on /.!?! What a surprise! If it's a slow news day, how about doing followups to a previous story like donttasemebro. Seems he has apologized. Or maybe, if you're going to be posting stories like donttasemebro that really have nothing to do with YRO anyway, you could cover other rights violations like the sleeping man who was tased in his own home and then tased again and arrested by police after he identified himself. Yeah, he was a black guy. There's even followup to that story. The police were cleared of any criminal wrongdoing. I guess real stories from actual newspapers are less important that made up shit from cheetos eating bloggers... News for nerds indeed. Tall tales for gullible suckers is more like it.
RETURN PERSON ID where gender is a male AND between 17-35 AND shops at Islamic stores AND has expired visa AND received large cash transfers from an Islamic country AND bought a one-way ticket on an airplane AND is on the same flight as others of that class.
;)
(2 row(s) returned)
RETURN PERSON ID where gender is a male AND between 17-35 AND has expired visa AND received large cash transfers from an Islamic country AND bought a one-way ticket on an airplane AND is on the same flight as others of that class.
(2 row(s) returned)
Thank God for the grocery store data!
They can also do stuff like: RETURN PERSON ID where party != party in control of government AND buys anti-Administration magazines AND owns a gun AND actively participates in political protests.
Why do pro-government apologists always sound like they're about to piss their pants in fear of terrorists? Who is more likely to destroy your life, a terrorist or the government?
If you've gotten to the point in life where someone has to explain the difference between working within the system to change it to your liking VS making demands and then blowing up people then really you need to consider furthering your education.
OR... they could look for people who had their families, along with a million other countrymen, blown up, torched, and shot for no damned reason. But that would require us to understand that we've actually made people mad at us. It's all about the EVIL, brown Muslims, not about what we do to piss them off...
Welcome to slashdot, where bigotry is modded insightful.
Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
Instead,
- Some have started/supported military action with a foreign country which was unconnected with said attacks, and was not an immediate threat
- Some have put bombs at abortion clinics: i.e., tried to kill people to prevent them from having an abortion. (I think most of us agree that someone willing to kill another to get people to conform to their beliefs about what is "moral" is most certainly a religious extremist.)
Which bothers you more?
- 2,974 people were killed by terrorists on September 11, 2001.
- 3858 US soldiers are confirmed dead by the DoD due to operations in Afghanistan/Iraq
- Roughly 17 times more people get killed by drunk drivers than by terrorists in the US.
If we were concerned about TRUE security and public safety, wouldn't we be far more interested in preventing the deaths due to non-ideological causes (drunk driving, other car accidents), rather than waging war in other nations?
Because generally speaking the Christian fundamentalists are not trying to kill us.
For that matter, Christianity doesn't even have an equivalent of Jihad in either codification or practice. They did in practice six hundred years ago on another continent, but that really isn't relevant in the America of today. We've had a couple of abortion doctor shooters, which were loners and which has been uniformly denounced by all major Christian denominations. Compare this to honor killing.
Possibly when you brag on the Internet that you own several unregistered guns.
Or do you really think your packets don't route through the NSA and that government agencies don't datamine online forums?
0 rows returned
FBI Agent: "Damn! Now what?
RETURN PERSON ID where RELIGION='Islam'
May the Maths Be with you!
Generaly speaking, neither are the middle eastern people.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
It could even be that the AND will rule out those 2 as well. A nice proof is google. The first line returns 15 results. The second one 24.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Now _THAT_'s insightful.
The very first thing we learn in basic scientific research, starting in around 6th grade, is that if your first search turns up no results you don't simply think "Oh, there are no matches" but instead expand the scope of the search.
To think that the FBI/NSA/CIA somehow practices self-restraint in the interest of protecting the privacy of American citizens is more than somewhat naive.
-HiLJ
So, that whole thing in Ireland was just a little misunderstanding?
It doesn't matter if you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, or Atheist. What matters is how you treat your fellow human being, and how do you look at yourself. If you think you're perfect, all those "imperfect" beings around you are in trouble. If you think you're 100% right, all those "incorrect" beings around you are in trouble.
Christian fundamentalism is a 19th century phenomenon, so it wasn't around back in the 1600's. Yes, there were religious Christians, but they weren't following Christian fundamentalist philosophy.
Like all other groups religious Christians have been both on the side of good and evil. It was the Quakers back in the 18th century who first spoke against slavery for religious reasons. At that time, all 12 colonies had slavery (Delaware was part of Pennsylvania, and didn't split off from Pennsylvania until 1770s). The Unitarians (Adams were Unitarians) later forced the Northern colonies and states to ban slavery. The Baptists (the first true fundamentalist group) spoke against slavery causing the Southern Baptists to break off. In the 20th century, Catholics and Jews spoke against the treatment of Blacks in the South.
Then again, slavery in the South became a prime Christian doctrine. Many Southern preachers were leaders in lynchings and the Klan. Supremest Christian doctrine in the mid-20th century supported the Nazis in Germany and were involved in the America First movement. In the 19th century, the protestant Know Nothings went on anti-Catholic rampages.
Then there were the anti-Mormon wars in Missouri lead by various religious leaders -- many from Christian fundamentalist churches -- in the mid-1830s. Of course, there was also the Mormon lead 1857 Mountain Meadows massacre.
It isn't Christian vs. Muslim. It is intolerance vs. everybody else. The fact that you so proudly wave the Christian banner and so readily denounce those who you don't agree with your religious views shows which side of the divide you're on.
I am not sure why you got modded so high because your wrong. Christian Fundamentalists is actually a bigger threat to the USA as they actually hold positions of power in the US government as it stands.
You have the likes of Bush saying that Creationism should be taught as a science.
I would recommend watching God's next army (starts 2:20 in). In the event it gets nuked, do some serious research on Patrick Henry College, then come back and tell us they aren't a threat. For example they helped pass through a law a year or so ago that would hinder child services from investigating incidents of child abuse.
There is also Jesus Camp documentary but doesn't cover as much.
It is more then just honor killings.
How many people think they are 'safe' because they bought their guns with cash, but at least one of the following is true:
1. The dealer has been selling to some serious bad guys, and when caught, will roll over and give all sorts of descriptions, names and other information on customers like you before he risks informing on the 'really dangerous' sorts.
2. How did you stay in practice with that gun? How many bought the gun itself with cash, but bought ammunition, or rented a range at least once, with a card, check, or other traceable?
3. Did your face get recorded on camera when you bought or trained with anything? That's the essence of data mining - putting faces, names, SSNs and such together with the other data. No one wants any info what-so-ever on a person unless they can link it to a name, a face, a bank balance or an ID number, but a photo is almost as good as a name for most law enforcement purposes.
4. Do you have a military record? Every weapon you have so much as familiarization fired, let alone qualified with, is there, as are range scores. Law enforcement personnel will assume you might still have just about anything you ever had, and judges have issued warrants based solely on an exotic weapon being used in a crime and some person having that weapon on their military record before.
This is also one of the most risky points for a non-gun owner - If you currently have absolutely nothing, but are on record as having ever fired a machine gun or grenade launcher, guess how much force looks reasonable to those cops serving you for something as non-violent as failure to pay child support, let alone a violent felony?
Who is John Cabal?
Come on. Questioned, and told that if he doesn't confess, he will be sent to Egypt or Syria where they torture terror "suspects" because we ask them to. This isn't fiction, it has happened.
That's fine, and if the data is collected in an open and transparent way - so that everyone know exactly what's being collected, I might actually be in support of some kind of database like this. The problems come in how you protect people from political attacks, and other forms of abuse. I'd also like to some some convincing evidence to show that databases like these can actually be used effectively to prevent crime, not just to hassle regular folks and political opponents.
I stand by my assertion that events like 9/11 are completely preventable with the old system, without the use of these kinds of very heavy handed, and very easily abused kinds of mass data collection techniques. Investigators should be required to get the same sorts of warrants that they would need today to invade the privacy of individuals and groups, to actually query these databases.
Basically, we need some real effective checks and balances (at least as effective as we've been able to achieve thus far, previous to databases). So far I haven't seen even an attempt create these checks.
http://www.unfocus.com/
Exactly. How do people not understand this?
Whenever someone proposes giving the government a new power, there's an easy way to test if the government should have that power. Think of the person or people you'd least like to see in power. Then ask yourself if you would like that person or people to have that power.
If you wouldn't want your opposition to have that power, you shouldn't give it to the government, because, sooner or later, your opposition will be in control.
"Will a gun buyer have that same level of privacy after 8 years of President Hillary?"
.
You're concerned about HILLARY? If they're tracking people buying pita bread how much worse can it get? Wake up. Ever buy ammo with a credit card? Shooting glasses? Gun oil? Never in your whole life? Hell, ever buy anything at Gander Mountain or a place like that? If you fit the profile, you might as well tell them. Madison Avenue is watching you far better than big brother could- all they have to do is put database A and B together and large portions of the Bill of Rights go up in smoke, 2nd included
Scared yet? If the government doesn't respect the fourth amendment what does it matter? Why this administration though we all were screaming "please please take the forth amendment just don't let them send any more guys with boxcutters after us" is beyond me. Pretty cowardly really, in more ways than one. They want us to believe we needed to do all this crazy shit to stop terrorist attacks, when the reality was 9/11 was 100% preventable we just SCREWED UP. We learned a hard lesson, but we also _should_ have learned we didn't need to gut the constitution or give up our cherished values to prevent it too.
The terrorists can attack us even if we give up every constitutional protection we have, just like a criminal can still get a gun, but if we don't have the forth, the second doesn't mean shit. So I won't be taking any chances with Rudolph "W" Guiliani, who feels he has to be George++ on national security just so people forget his social views. That man scares me far more than Hillary does.