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FBI May Have Datamined Grocery Stores With Help From Credit Companies
An anonymous reader writes "Recent media reports indicate that in 2005-06, the FBI went trawling through grocery store records in order to track down Iranian terror cells. They hoped to locate 'Middle-Eastern terrorists' through the purchase of specific food items. Many of these items, though, are not sold through big-box supermarket chains, and the majority of mom and pop ethnic markets do not have the detailed computer purchase histories that Safeway or Whole Foods have. What the FBI seems to have done is instead put together a list of everyone who shopped at a Middle Eastern food market. All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data, and not the individual stores. If so, this could be the tip of a (potentially illegal) data-mining iceberg."
Falafil Inc. sues the FBI for defamation of character and loss of business.
My poetry site welcomes the unusual.
data-mining iceberg lettuce hovercraft eel overflow
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Why not just say anyone of middle-eastern descent is automatically a threat? That's basically what it's come down to. How in the world is food purchasing data related to terror suspects. Alienation only leads to more strife. This doesn't do anything but make relations worse.
I got a catholic block.
Better put Bill O'Reilly on the airport watch list then.
Buying hunting ammunition? Pay cash. Buying food? Cash. Fireworks? Cash. Whether I have a reason to or not. And don't get me started on those "in-store discount cards".
If that's not racial profiling, I don't know what is?
:-P
Getting the information on anyone who purchased food at a Middle Eastern market? That's just crazy, and scarily over-broad.
Hell, I shop at Middle Eastern markets, and I'm about as pasty white as you get. I mean, where else am I gonna get some of those things? You can't buy them elsewhere, and they're just so damned yummy. Come to think of it, I shop at Latin Markets, Asian Markets, and Caribbean Markets -- does that make me a terrorist? Or merely someone who eats a lot of ethnic food?
This is like that now eerie joke about being arrested at an airport for "traveling while brown". Surely it's still legal and un-suspicious to buy ethnic food for crying out loud -- they're the only ones who have food worth eating.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Mohammad Atta ate for his last dinner...
at Pizza Hut across the street from the Portland Mall, in front of the South Portland Cinema, next to IHOP and a gas station. (I know that exact Pizza Hut) We must get the records of everyone that eats pizza, shops at a mall, watches movies, enjoys breakfast and buys gas!
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
I like how the article linked as a source ("All signs point to...") contains the phrase: I have no sources at all for my argument today. I have nothing to back it up other than a gut feeling.
If you read the CQ article, which is the only source of information here (the other two rely on it totally), it is not clear that this idiotic program was ever implemented to any extent whatever. It may have just been some words written on a napkin after a late night of drunken FBI 'brain'-storming.
I'm patiently waiting for the FBI to knock on my door and arrest me for all the ingredients I used (digested) in my attempts to create the perfect stink bomb.
We've become far too dependent on technology for trying to do actual investigative work. Data mining for ethnic foods? What happened to having a spy network in places that have known terrorists or security threats? Is the will even there to do this kind of first hand work or have we just given up and rely on computer algorithms to do the work for us?
Maybe someone within the FBI/NSA is pushing for technological solutions to do this kind of heavy lifting that used to be done by people. I don't know, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. We're not a meat and potatoes society anymore. People of every stripe are going out of their comfort zones and finding ethnic food really tasty (I am one of those people within the last 7-10 years). Do I get put on a watch list because I go through a month where I'm craving a good gyro and find the best place to get really good gyro is my local halal shop?
Shocking. But now all this food talk has made me hungry. Thanks FBI.
How is it more dangerous than the inside threat of Christian Fundamentalists that threaten the very nature of the US?
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
1) "The brainchild of top FBI counterterrorism officials Phil Mudd and Willie T. Hulon, according to well-informed sources, the project didn't last long. It was torpedoed by the head of the FBI's criminal investigations division, Michael A. Mason, who argued that putting somebody on a terrorist list for what they ate was ridiculous -- and possibly illegal."
2) "All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data" is a rather generous spin on a theory that the author simply made up.
3) Do Iranians eat falafel at all? I've never seen it in Persian restaurants. Or do none of you people know the difference between them and Arabs?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
You don't understand how datamining works. Records of you shopping for Islamic food by and in itself is irrelevant. Nobody is going to throw you in jail because you love a falaffel now and then
However, once FBI computers have access to hundreds of unrelated databases, they can do things like
RETURN PERSON ID where gender is a male AND between 17-35 AND shops at Islamic stores AND has expired visa AND received large cash transfers from an Islamic country AND bought a one-way ticket on an airplane AND is on the same flight as others of that class.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
I think that it's even more insidious than what you describe. It's not even being Middle Eastern that attracts the attention of authorities in this matter, but rather what food you purchase.
This isn't even targeted ethnic discrimination, but rather a blatant foray into the realm of persecuting any deviation from the "american norm". To me, this says: "What, you don't purchase apple pies, soda, and hamburger? Instead you buy pita, chickpeas, and lamb? You're not like us... thus you are an enemy"
This is not just ethnic profiling run amock, but rather the beginnings of persecuting any differences from the average. The logical continuation of this policy would be to data mine television watching habits, and blacklist those who do not watch reality TV... or better yet, flag anyone whose TV is turned on for less than 2 hours per day.
RETURN PERSON ID where gender is a male AND between 17-35 AND shops at Islamic stores AND has expired visa AND received large cash transfers from an Islamic country AND bought a one-way ticket on an airplane AND is on the same flight as others of that class.
;)
(2 row(s) returned)
RETURN PERSON ID where gender is a male AND between 17-35 AND has expired visa AND received large cash transfers from an Islamic country AND bought a one-way ticket on an airplane AND is on the same flight as others of that class.
(2 row(s) returned)
Thank God for the grocery store data!
They can also do stuff like: RETURN PERSON ID where party != party in control of government AND buys anti-Administration magazines AND owns a gun AND actively participates in political protests.
Why do pro-government apologists always sound like they're about to piss their pants in fear of terrorists? Who is more likely to destroy your life, a terrorist or the government?
Instead,
- Some have started/supported military action with a foreign country which was unconnected with said attacks, and was not an immediate threat
- Some have put bombs at abortion clinics: i.e., tried to kill people to prevent them from having an abortion. (I think most of us agree that someone willing to kill another to get people to conform to their beliefs about what is "moral" is most certainly a religious extremist.)
Which bothers you more?
- 2,974 people were killed by terrorists on September 11, 2001.
- 3858 US soldiers are confirmed dead by the DoD due to operations in Afghanistan/Iraq
- Roughly 17 times more people get killed by drunk drivers than by terrorists in the US.
If we were concerned about TRUE security and public safety, wouldn't we be far more interested in preventing the deaths due to non-ideological causes (drunk driving, other car accidents), rather than waging war in other nations?
For that matter, Christianity doesn't even have an equivalent of Jihad in either codification or practice. They did in practice six hundred years ago on another continent, but that really isn't relevant in the America of today. We've had a couple of abortion doctor shooters, which were loners and which has been uniformly denounced by all major Christian denominations. Compare this to honor killing.
0 rows returned
FBI Agent: "Damn! Now what?
RETURN PERSON ID where RELIGION='Islam'
May the Maths Be with you!
So, that whole thing in Ireland was just a little misunderstanding?
It doesn't matter if you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, or Atheist. What matters is how you treat your fellow human being, and how do you look at yourself. If you think you're perfect, all those "imperfect" beings around you are in trouble. If you think you're 100% right, all those "incorrect" beings around you are in trouble.
Christian fundamentalism is a 19th century phenomenon, so it wasn't around back in the 1600's. Yes, there were religious Christians, but they weren't following Christian fundamentalist philosophy.
Like all other groups religious Christians have been both on the side of good and evil. It was the Quakers back in the 18th century who first spoke against slavery for religious reasons. At that time, all 12 colonies had slavery (Delaware was part of Pennsylvania, and didn't split off from Pennsylvania until 1770s). The Unitarians (Adams were Unitarians) later forced the Northern colonies and states to ban slavery. The Baptists (the first true fundamentalist group) spoke against slavery causing the Southern Baptists to break off. In the 20th century, Catholics and Jews spoke against the treatment of Blacks in the South.
Then again, slavery in the South became a prime Christian doctrine. Many Southern preachers were leaders in lynchings and the Klan. Supremest Christian doctrine in the mid-20th century supported the Nazis in Germany and were involved in the America First movement. In the 19th century, the protestant Know Nothings went on anti-Catholic rampages.
Then there were the anti-Mormon wars in Missouri lead by various religious leaders -- many from Christian fundamentalist churches -- in the mid-1830s. Of course, there was also the Mormon lead 1857 Mountain Meadows massacre.
It isn't Christian vs. Muslim. It is intolerance vs. everybody else. The fact that you so proudly wave the Christian banner and so readily denounce those who you don't agree with your religious views shows which side of the divide you're on.
Exactly. How do people not understand this?
Whenever someone proposes giving the government a new power, there's an easy way to test if the government should have that power. Think of the person or people you'd least like to see in power. Then ask yourself if you would like that person or people to have that power.
If you wouldn't want your opposition to have that power, you shouldn't give it to the government, because, sooner or later, your opposition will be in control.