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Even the Masseuse is a Multimillionaire at Google
PCOL writes "The NY Times is running a story on how stock options that have given an estimated 1,000 employees at Google a net worth of $5 million each affects the culture at Google. Google gives each of its new employees stock options, as well as a smaller number of shares of Google stock, as a recruiting incentive. The average options grant for a "Noogler" (new Google employee) who started a year ago was 685 shares at a price of roughly $475 a share which at last Friday's close would be worth $128,000. But employees say Google is different from other large high-tech companies where the day's stock price is a fixture on many people's computer screens. "It isn't considered 'Googley' to check the stock price," said one engineer adding that it is also considered unseemly to discuss the price with other employees. And the masseuse? In 1999 Bonnie Brown answered an ad for an in-house masseuse at Google "on a lark" and after five years of kneading engineers' backs, she retired, cashing in most of her stock options to travel the world, oversee a charitable foundation she founded, and write a book, still unpublished, titled "Giigle: How I Got Lucky Massaging Google.""
*wink wink*
Its cool baby, i'm not a cop.
So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
"Giigle: how Pure Envy powers nearly every startup in silicon valley, everyone reading this book, the NYT article, this Slashdot submission and this comment"
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Now, that's a happy ending
They need stock options as an incentive if new hires are called 'nooglers' :-)
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Dont get to greedy with the stock options, just before WorldCom went on its downward spiral some people were bragging about their options and what they were worth, some had been with the company for 10+ years, in the end they lost almost everything
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
We might find ordinary humdrum factory foremen managing all the country hicks flocking Detroit to get a shot at the incrdible 5$ a day wages for factory workers. These shop floor bosses might have been worth 40 grand those days when they hung their hard hats. Adjusted for inflation it might be close to half a mill of present dollars. How did it affect the culture in Ford those days?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
This gives new meaning to "massaging the data".
Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
imho, the pay is excessive, few, if any are worth six or seven figure salaries, if stock options are so great, why not pay every employee the same way, instead we have a two tier compensation system
I say, thank god there's no class discrimination in America!
Web company. Billions made in advertising dollars. Founders making billions. Employees getting rich from stock options.
When this crashes it will be loud and hard. Hopefully you guys working at Google are going to do the smart thing and save as much money as you can while you can.
And to think I discouraged my daughter from becoming a masseuse because I thought guys would think she's easy!
The truth is that many people working at Google are still passionate about Google and what it stands for. Now, it doesn't really matter what that is exactly. In the minds of Google employees there is something special about working at Google. Perception is everytihng.
Also, keep in mind that the stock price keeps going up. This isn't just because Google is cooking the books. They appear to be legitimate financially. As long as this is the case, many people -- even the millionaires -- will stay on board. I predict that once Google takes a serious financial hit, many will bail out. Ideals be damned.
How to Download YouTube Videos
It does sound like all employees get the same options, it's just that the masseuse started a long time ago, before the stock skyrocketed..
which is totally what she said
With the treasury bill rates what they are, around 4 %, each million only brings in a guarantted $40K if you want to be safe and make sure you keep your nest egg. So 5 million is 200K per year - a nice income but hardly enough to finance an out of control rock and roll lifestyle.
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
Google - the next big dot bomb
No way a freaking search engine is worth over $600 a share. Their house of cards will come crashing too
I know people who were working for FreeMarkets. The exercised their stock when it was selling at 190$ triggering paper profits of 180$ a share and AMT. Paid AMT and when they liquidated their holdings a year later, they made a LOSS after counting AMT.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
BASTARDS!
Google is an advertising company and technology is just a face (or mask) for it.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
Maybe the reason why it's not done at Google to ostensibly check the stock price every day is out of embarassment over the fact that employees that join now will have to hope that their $700 options stay afloat while they may be more brilliant and their contribution more critical to the company than that of employees who join only one year ago.
I think that options are great for startup companies, which Google is not anymore, to compensate for the risk that the people who work in them do, and the fact that the contribution of early employees is by definition seminal to building a successful company. But for mature companies (which Google is now), it becomes too difficult to manage as a standard compensation system. How can you keep employees focused on their commitments if the cash bonus that you can afford to offer them at their annual review is dwarfed by the value of the stock options they already got just for being hired ?
I have yet to see anything from you that doesn't resemble a troll in some way or another. Thanks for your awesome nonconformity, jerk.
Why WOULDN'T people be cashing in their google stock? I mean, its one thing to hold onto a retirement portfolio, etc, but given that google's stock is already sky-high, why wait for it to go 'higher'? I'd taken my $128,000 and pay my taxes, put it in a more secure, more diverse vehicle. Its partially hubris and partially a failure to diversify that nails people. Does this option make you a millionare? No. But I mean, its not like google can just make millionares out of its employees forever. I'd rather live comfortably with 100k than risk trying to be a millionare, since it may never happen.
Worldcom, like many other companies (Qwest, Adelphia, etc) were following the lead of Enron. Enron did it perfect. Total lies backed up by nothing but BS.
Google is not even close to this. At this point, they ARE search. Of course, the problem for them, as Netscape showed, another monopoly CAN take it away. MS will have a difficult time as long as the feds are crawling all over them (MS is suppose to be let go from that, but most of the players have appealed that). But all it takes is for Google to create new technology or buy it, and they have the ability to create their own.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Word is she joined google after a massage-table-throwing incident.
:wq
A wise finance teacher once explained that splits are unconditionally a net-negative effects to the value of a company.
Stock splits keep the finance/accounting people busy and that's about it.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
I'm sorry,
I guess it's my lack of knowledge about financial matters, but I've read your comment multiple times and can't figure out what you're saying.
What is a "same day sale" and why would it not trigger the AMT rather than waiting? If you exercise a stock option, don't you have to pay taxes on the gain?
-"Those who fought today will die tommorow."-
A masseuse is a hooker. Big difference there.
You've gotta admit... it's better than "Bill's new sextoy".
There was a time when IBM was the juggernaut, and a young Microsoft was eyeing the giant and assessing whether the stones from its' sling might topple IBM. Interestingly, Microsoft took a niche and exploited it masterfully and then extended their market share and influence to the leadership position it occupies today - but IBM is strong and has massive revenue.
Even if Google grows to dominance and eats some of Mcrosoft's lunch, as Microsoft did to IBM, that does not spell the end of Microsoft.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
"At Google, Everyone Gets Some Happy End" ?
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
Hello to our friend at Google: Amit!
Stock options keep you going when everything else is falling apart, baby! I stared at that little window for a straight 18 months, and LIKED it.
Sure, Mountain View aint Redmond; there are actually more reasons to go outside, but if Microsoft had been giving out free food, I think I might have died under my desk, and my group manager just covered up my body and sprayed perfume on it until we shipped.
And what the hell is AMT?
Bot Assisted Blogging
But, when you exercise the stock, the difference between market price and the exercise price is counted as your "gain" for the purposes of Alternative Minimum Tax. Though you have not sold anything and you have not seen any money and the gain is merely a paper gain, it is counted as taxable for AMT. If you follow this path and pay the AMT and the stock falls and you sell it at a lower price, you can claim a loss. You cost basis for the stock will the market price used in AMT calculation. So if it falls you could recover the excess tax you have paid. But still it is not a simple calculation of 33% income tax vs 20% capital gains tax. It is 33% tax in AMT + 20% capital gains on further gains in the next year or 100% of the loss in the next year. It is more complex to calculate and judge. Play it simple, get money into your pocket and pay the tax on actual realized gain.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Long time ago, sometime in 1960s, many rich millionaires were using many tax avoidance schemes to avoid paying any taxes. So they introduced what they called an Alternative Minimum Tax. It used to hit people making more than 150K a year in 1960s. But they did not index the trigger to inflation. It is the same 150K a year today. Strictly speaking tax meant for people making more than half a mill a year are hitting most middle class now.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Alternative Minimum Tax. Originally aimed at the 155 wealthiest households in the US, the law was not written to account for inflation, and is now a real possibility for upper-middle class families. The AMT specifies a minimum tax rate (in the high-20s%) that cannot be avoided by standard deductions, etc. Read the wikipedia link for more details.
More clarifications. The real gain of the same day sale does not trigger AMT by itself. But if the profit is so high, and it pushes your AGI over the limit, then it will trigger AMT. But even with AMT you are paying taxes on the actual money that came to your pocket. Not based on some paper gain. On the other hand, if your income is small enough and the profit is small enough, even under AMT calculation, you might not pay additional taxes. In that case, it is a straight forward, 33% income tax vs 20% capital gains tax question. Provide you are able to sell it at the same price a year from now.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Good for the employees. Now, is this good for Google and its shareholders? Probably less so. They are the ones that end up paying these millions out without getting a return.
Here's one employee who got there through work. She learnt a trade - massage therapy - and she practised it well. And she found an opportunity for excellent pay. Good for her.
The engineers were just lucky to have been born with high IQs and good memories. This is essentially what the entrance interviews test - there is little interest in a broad range of abilities, or "wider picture" thinking - which is why Google mostly just copies existing ideas and throws its marketing weight behind them. Have colleagues who worked at G; elite robots, awful imaginations.
I look forward to the competition from the likes of the new ask.com. Remember, the only reason Microsoft's been successful for so long is because they, too, produced a mediocre product that was "just about more bearable" than all the rest, yet marketed it so much better.
When your day job is wearing an S&M Minnie Mouse costume and pretending to solve matrix equations on a whiteboard while applying anal electro-stim to a juggling guy wearing a bra and diaper and riding a unicycle, what do you do for kink?
I tried a search, but "I'm Feeling Lucky" just redirects to Google.
"Do the Goo"
You can read more about Bonnie and read excerpts from her hilarious book, Giigle, at her Web site: www.GiigleBook.com
"Alternative Minimum Tax"
It was a very long-term thinking way to screw the middle class:
They created it ostensibly to keep the "rich" from being able to use too many loopholes to keep their cash. Because, apparently it's simpler than just doing away with the loopholes or something. But they set hard limits on the income that triggers it, and inflation is bringing those triggers down to the level of the ordinary middle class. All they have to do is refrain from updating it and its rolls will grow every year.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Even if Google grows to dominance and eats some of Mcrosoft's lunch, as Microsoft did to IBM, that does not spell the end of Microsoft.
Yeah, but a guy can still dream...
Ignore anything I said above, I actually agree with everything you believe - mod accordingly.
If you're convinced the stock will continue to go up, you can always sell the minimum number of shares you'll need to pay your taxes. You should probably add in the cost of an accountant you consult to arrive at that minimum number, since it's foolish to do your own taxes once you get beyond the fill-in-the-number-from-the-w2 stage of your life.
It's reasonable to have faith in your employer to the extent that you're willing to bet on them with your non-salary compensation. After all, if you believe that your employer's stock will make it to the 2-year mark at roughly the same price as it is at or before the 1-year mark, you could end up saving yourself quite a bit on taxes. And if you believe it will continue to go up, you could end up making quite a bit extra too. For Google employees, this seems like a reasonable stance...GOOG seems to be a pretty safe bet.
But not selling enough to cover your AMT is just reckless. I knew many people during the dotcom era who were left holding the tax bag when the bottom dropped out of their exercised options (I worked as a contractor for a prominent dotcom that had a bit of an accounting scandal that caused their stock price to fall from $176/share to $2/share). Of those people, most were able to settle with the IRS by basically wiping out their entire savings, a couple filed for bankruptcy and one moved back home to Canada. Only one person I knew actually sold stock to cover his AMT. He actually sold a bit more than he needed to and bought himself a new home theater and living room. Everyone laughed at him and told him he was throwing away a ton of money. Some of them had even borrowed money against their options (something I gather is illegal, but the financial planner that everyone went to found a way to make it happen).
It's too bad that so many of his friends got so devastated by the whole ordeal, or otherwise he'd have a nice "I told you so."
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
Then apparently you dont read well, or enough.
I doubt id have excellent karma if i was just 'yet another troll'.. But sure, when the subject at hand warrants a snide reply, it gets one.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
nurb get p0wned.
75% of mutual fund managers, who are paid millions and giving staffs of dozens of professionals to assist with their research, will fail at that task every year, when measured against investing in an index fund in the sector their mutual fund plays in. What makes you think you're going to beat 75% of the professionals without the team of analysts or economy of scale that billions of dollars bring?
It is worth noting that the reason that everyone knows, e.g., Lynch's name is that he had the good sense to take a ten year run and then GET THE HECK OUT OF DODGE because he was more useful as marketing material for Fidelity ("We had the most brilliant mutual fund manager of all time! And, while you can't actually get him to manage your money, look at these other guys who worked in the office next door to the most brilliant manager of all time!") than he was as a mere mortal leading a fund which people thought was godly. You can't lose, after all, if you refuse to play. The Magellan fund's overperformance has, predictably, returned to the mean.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Afaict those who got rich at google got rich because they got thier stock options at the right time to take advatage of the stock skyrocketing. The same thing happened to many early employees at microsoft.
This masseuse becoming a multimillionaire is pretty much like one who wins the lottery, she didn't earn the money she just got lucky.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I doubt you will see this now, since this story is old. But I just saw your replies to my questions. Thanks, that clarified things, I appreciate it.
-"Those who fought today will die tommorow."-
Anyone who can afford to buy and hold can damn well afford to pay the taxes.