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Illegal Downloaders to be Blocked By French Government?
rdavison writes "According to a recent article on the Financial Times site, 'internet users in France who download music and films without paying for them could find their web access shut down by a government body.' The proposal originated with FNAC, an entertainment retailer. According to the article, the proposal has a good chance of being accepted. 'In exchange for the clampdown on illegal downloading, the music industry has agreed to make individual downloads of archive French material available on all types of players by dropping digital rights management protection. The French film industry has agreed to release DVDs more quickly after a film's first cinema screening, reducing the delay from 7½ months to 6 months. However, consumer groups and even some of Mr Sarkozy's own members of parliament on Thursday attacked the proposal for a new internet policeman as a threat to civil liberties.'"
Isn't most illegal file transfer done by BitTorrent? How would this help, except to make searching harder?
How about releasing the DVD at the same time as the movie, so people didn't have to download it if they wanted to watch it at home.
c++;
When I lived in Spain, the local FNAC was a great place to browse, but a lousy place to buy. Their CDs are ridiculously expensively priced compared to other options. I'll pick a general classical CD that, as far as I know, is still always full-price, the DG disc with Anne-Sophie Mutter as the soloist on the Berg violin concerto. FNAC has it for a steep 23 euro. Meanwhile, Amazon has it for US$16. Even though I've settled in Europe for good, I've grown accustomed to ordering from Amazon, having everything shipped to a relative in the US, and getting my stuff every few months when someone flies over. But if I didn't have that option, like most European music lovers, you better believe that I'd be downloading nonstop. Retailers like FLAC should realize that outright gouging of your customers doesn't spur business.
Sounds harsh, but still beats suing school children for 100k $. Question is of course: what if I Bittorrent a Distro's ISO?
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
Listen: I live in Paris and I have something like 10 wifi networks right in my building.
It would take me a trivial amount of time to crack the WEP keys of this network.
If I ever wanted to go the illegal download way, that's what I would do: use my neighbours connection. Do you really think the SACEM (French RIAA) will truly investigate who did what on which network? I don't think so. My neighbours would be left with the legal fees, prosecutions, etc, while I would just move on to the next hapless victim^W^W wifi network.
I have expanded at length on this subject on my French blog. Including some language that I will not reproduce here.
In a city where even McDonald's offer free wifi for the price of a cheeseburger (not to mention the schweet municipal wifi project rumored to be in the works), this typically represents what De Gaulle said about the French right-wing politicians: the most stupid in the world.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Considering the number of Wifi access poorly protected (Wep) or totally open, I think that "Illegal Downloaders" neighbours should prepare for hard days.
Greed is the motivating factor as the overly-affluent criminalize fair and decent behavior. Co-operation, sharing and community is what makes us great, not the accumulation of ill-gotten unnecessary wealth. Peoples from every walk of life and from every country and culture need to fight for freedom.
Down with evil tyrants!
rememeber davsi that propsed to make it illegal to develop p2p applications? That proposal did have effect on the frech ability to develop software.
To implement this law one would need to have monitoring on the internet users. Since the rule is "not paid for", this monitoring needs to be connected to monitoring payments. you see trouble here? I do.
Show me somewhere I can pay the movie people £4 (about the price of a bargain basement DVD, but remember I'm not using any of their resources) per "pirate" download, as all I ever do with my copious DVD collection is rip, transcode and chuck on my HTPC system. Just utilise the high quality volunteer distribution system already in place, people! Problem solved, surely?
Ha, of course not. As we've all been saying for years, this isn't, never has been and never will be about money. It's all about control.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
And 20 minutes after the first one is sold, it is in the wild being downloaded by every jerk that didn't want to pay $19.95 for the disc, or pay $7.50 for the matinee, or $3.00 for the rental.
And, you made it easier, now pirates don't have to sit in the theater with hand held cameras. You made it easier, because now you don't have to make a deal with some guy in post production to give you a dump of the film. You made it easier because the pirates don't have to get their projectionist buddy to slip them the film over night.
O.k., you solved what problem again?
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
If the gov't could only clean up that cesspool know as wanadoo.fr, haven to script kiddies and warez, that would be a good start.
...not an obscure ISP. It's the former state monopoly, as big an ISP as they get.
Whenever you visit a site you "download" the information. So what about YouTube and Google Video where you are "downloading" music videos and can rip them via speaker output (at not that great of quality) so is that now going to be illegal?
There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
Corrupting the governments? Please! It's exactly the kind of excuse they need (along with terrorism) to implement their War on Privacy.
Isnt france the weird country where they kinda decided to define cryptography = weapons
Both France and the USA did that, much to the amusement of the rest of the world, who of course could use crypto anyway (the sheer arrogance of the USA in particular in assuming that if they prevented export of crypto from the USA no-one else would develop it is astonishing). So the net effect was to hurt the USA and France.
France did only consider crypto a weapon for a bit longer than the US. Or did they? Last I checked you can't export from the US any crypto related stuff to non "friendly" countries like half of middle-east or Cuba...
And it's not like it ever was enforced in France to start with... At that time I could have been emprisonned a lot for PGP, SSH or even HTTPS. Like I was gonna send my CC number in the clear, yeah right...
It's France. You don't seriously expect that they will actually succeed with this, do you?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
aha. you are a communist yes? because that's what you advocate. how IS north korea doing btw?
Joking aside, I would assume the technical solution won't work for those truly determined unless you went to repressive monitoring.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
This article is FUD.
While I don't doubt they are looking at all sorts of ways of controlling P2P traffic, this law is insanely unworkable. For a whole list of reasons, ranging from cracked WiFi, to identifying the what's illegally shared and what isn't. For the 100 millionth time, not all P2P traffic is illegal, not all movies and music are protected by copyrights.
If they do this it will open up and unworkable legal mess, tying up courts time for years sorting out what's legally downloadable and what isn't. Nope, FUD, sorry.
Driving on the internet, its a privilege not a right. Do you have your P2P license?
Illegal downloaders: how to cross the virtual border without getting caught by using someone elses license.
How to get the wifi connections in your area shut down by wifijacking them.
Information is power and its not free, but do you pay for it or make someone else pay for it for you?
Ok, here is the scoop...
1) Music and media will be DRM free....
2) DVD's will come 6 months after the cinema...
Sorry, but I fail to see the problems... Actually I wish they had more of that elsewhere because then I could buy music without fear of it not playing on a certain device.
Oh wait I know what the problem is, you can't rip off anymore because P2P will be watched. And that means you MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY for something...
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
N Korea would be doing GREAT, if it wasn't for being cut off from the world's financing, banking and economical systems by the countries such as USA and Japan and yes if it didn't have a megalomaniac for a president.
What killed communistic countries such as Soviet Union was economics, not USA defeating them. China was much smarter, so they began changing and are not largely supporting the USA by STILL buying up their bonds. The question is how long will they be willing to do so?
It is always amusing to be able to see through the bullshit served by people like yourself.
So how is China doing these days, btw? And how is Venezuela doing these days, hmm?
fuck karma, I like saying the truth better
We infringe on our citizens rights, introduce draconian measures that will make us a laughing stock of the world and you, you release DVD's a month and half earlier (that is AFTER the EU movie release has already been delayed for half a year).
Wow, so frenchies, all of sudden those Bush voters look pretty shrewd eh?
Wasn't france the place were DVD's copy protection was ruled illegal? How has this been handled? Has the movie industry actuallty been made to do anything about it?
It isn't the first time the french have shown to be thouroughly corrupt. The EU level laws in this area also are often french backed.
You would think with race riots and national strikes the goverment has better things to do.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I remember it started with Napster. A simple and stupid program. They went for it. Then net evolved... kazaa. Remember? They did break it. Then net evolved more and more. All these people will achieve with this stupid kind of law is the next evolution of P2P. It can evolve more, believe!
It will never work, because ISPs won't accept losing 80% of their customers overnight. ;)
The chairman of the "independent" government commission is the head of a brick-and-mortar music/movie retailer. How convenient that the official report recommends consumers be barred from patronizing online-based competitors, isn't it?
Thing is, widespread copyright infringement is allowed to continue only because it is more profitable to ISPs than the alternative. If the market is dominated by ISPs that are not owned by entertainment companies, the market will stick to the current "wink-wink" strategy. Fortunately, this is the case in France.
Strategies that focus on punishing the consumer are doomed to fail. The only efficient way is to make actively fighting copyright infringement more profitable to ISPs than aiding and abetting.
- this is not a proposal by FNAC.
Olivennes, the guy who wrote the proposal, is the FNAC CEO, but he was appointed by Sarkozy to try and find solutions to piracy in France.
- this is not a law. It is a proposal, and the actual law will not come until 1st quarter next year.
- the idea is to give warnings before the internet connection is shut off (2 I believe).
To those saying just pick random wifi hotspots, I can assure them that if people were to receive one of those warnings, they would start thinking about securing their access point. Internet cafés are in trouble though.
- the challenge to figure out what is infringing is left unspecified. The copyright holders are supposed to complain to the ISP, which is supposed to refer to a new judiciary body. That body deals with the alleged offender.
- there are significant outcries against it (notably by consumer protection organizations)
- the change in video timeline is just to bring VOD in line with DVD (from 7.5 months to 6). Nothing more...
Does this affect deezer in any way? Their ads are target to france, and i expect most of the users are from france as well. The "legality" is something I still question too.
First of all, I must say that this "Comission" is really upseting me. How can you put at its top someone who works hand in hand with the music and movie industry and as the CEO of FNAC has the only goal and purpose to sell more discs and DVDs?? It's not at all an indepedent commission and here again or new government showed how much it wants to be close to the lobbies, and not the citizen.
I agree that something has to be done about piracy but thats starts from both ends : users should pay for content, and industry should stop ripping us off and think about a smarter system. But I'm dreaming here maybe.
Just as an example of funny laws we have here about the entertainment and art industry : radios and TV networks have quotas on how much french created content they must broadcast. This quotas ended in boosting the french soap industry a lot, and also lousy 19 yrs old french singers that just get their songs on air just so the radios can meet their quotas of proudly nationally created blurb.
An other thing that's bothering me is : we have quite strict laws about eavesdropping and wiretaping here, isn't "listening" my Internet connection a breach in the privacy of communications? Or do they intend to have this done with a court order by the Police Nationale and Gendarmerie?
Sarkozy loves Bush
Slashdot liberals hate Bush, hence by implication hates Sarkozy.
The majority of voting public in France loves Sarkozy.
Hence, Slashdot liberals got thrown in the trash. Tough luck.
Are they insane! That's MUCH too generous! It'll kill the entire industry and no one will ever make a movie EVER AGAIN! They've gone crazy!
And dropping some DRM in exchange for total control on who can access the net or not? That is also a deal much too sweet to offer, come on! We're talking about critical access to online banking, governmental program information, communications with friends and employers, and maybe even the means to vote someday, you can't offer something as precious as releasing some content without crippling digital restriction managements for something as trivial as the ever-increasingly vital access to the internet! Crazy talk I say! CRAZY!
You can't take the sky from me...
Where I am at (Belgium), FNAC is mostly a book store, and a fine one at that. They also have a small technology section that sells a surprisingly high quality stock of wares. They have knowledgeable, courteous sales people in all of their departments and they don't try to shove special deals down your throat; the computers don't even have any nagware. It is expensive, but you get a great return on your investment.
I really thought that they were a company that "gets" the digital age; people looking for entertainment will pay if you have a value to add to that entertainment, which they provide, and the fact that their stores are always packed proves it.
Looks like they have turned to the dark side, though. Back to Dell and Amazon.
/*sigh...*/
weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
The majority of illegal downloads are a result of commercial enterprises refusing to match demand. They want to have it both ways, they want to make money but they don't want to deliver the product the way the consumer wants it.
They want you to pay to see a movie and they also want to dictate every circumstance surrounding the viewing. What chair you'll sit in, what you'll eat and drink, you can't go to the restroom without missing part of the movie, the location you'll see the movie, and what time you'll see it.
If I'm going to pay to watch a movie, I should get to determine all the surrounding circumstances. If they truly want people to pay to watch movies, they need to seriously relax their restrictions. Offer every new release for download and permanent media purchase. And purchase should be the name of the game, not license or rent. I want to be able to watch whenever I damn well please, if I get interrupted I want to be able to come back in 2 weeks and watch it again. If I like it I should be able to watch it a dozen times.
Licensing schemes and restrictions are all about greed. It has nothing to do with giving the consumer what they want, it's all about milking the consumer for every last dime while giving them as little as possible.
Until the entertainment industry loosens its grip, pirated material is going to be rampant. Even meeting customer demands isn't going to eliminate piracy entirely, but it would reduce it to an insignificant level.
A similar measure was included in a bill last year, and was promptly ruled unconstitutional by the highest court (Cour Constitutionnelle). Specifically, that a punishment, no matter how benign, was to be executed without due process was deemed to be a violation of the declaration of human rights or something.
So basically, this won't happen. It's still worrisome that they're trying to push that shit.
It's actually "Conseil Constitutionnel" IIRC.
in Cheesburger?
What is free wifi at the price of a cheeseburger?
AHA! So we can finally tag something as frenchmilitaryvictories!
Maybe you got lucky a few times, but in general, going to the theater has not been a pleasurable experience in your lifetime. The food and drink have always been expensive relative to the times and the problem of loudmouths, children and miscellaneous miscreants is not new.
Mobile phones are a new vector for annoyance, but not really a new form. Inconsiderate sloths have had access to beeping, flashing watches and other theater-inappropriate gadgetry for decades now and have never been shy about misusing it.
If it weren't for the clout and reserves of Hollywood, theaters would have gone the way of the arcade last decade. By all rights they should be obsolete.
Slashdot, chill out. This is just a proposal to propose a proposal for a bill. The text has been reviewed by the french assembly today and there are a lot of voices against. If it ever becomes a proposal for a bill, at first glance it looks like it's going to be rejected. Actually, the main argument against is that the suggested bans are anticonstitutional since they would provide judicial power to administrative agencies (like MAFIAA allowed to send subponeas without a court order). This kind of violations really don't fly in France.
To me this proposal is great: before you could be taken to court, the french equivalent of MPAA/RIAA could use their lawyer army to be sure that you had to pay for the rest of your life. Picking random people and applying maximum fines would act as examples to scare P2P users. See the recent cases in the US for example, or the RIAA attacks over leading universities students. Now with this law, one caught downloading copyrighted material will get a warning mail (telling him to use stronger encryption), and then possibly will have his Internet access terminated. Best of it : it will be done by ISP themselves, no doubt they'll be very motivated to terminate their customers.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
any deal they make with the media companies will be null and void the moment it is signed, and those companies will cheerfully break that agreement as soon as they perceive it to be costing them money. Which will be the moment it is signed, so don't do it.
Face it, you can tell when media company executives are lying whether they move their lips or not.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur King, you and all your silly English k-nnnnniggets. Thpppppt! Thppt! Thppt!
We'll strike!! ... as usual
Here is the non-infringing ad they did subsequently.
The text says : Gaul ladies and gentlemen, you're upset to have the dumbest right in the world ? We too !!! Demonstrate it by joining the RPR (name of the party at the time)
There are a few links, one of them being an interview with Uderzo, the comic author, but I can find neither the original ad nor any link in english.
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
For years the ISPs have been battling to offer faster access, now they're going to battle for "cheapest" after investing in all that fancy hardware?
I don't think so!
PS: own from 7.5 months to six??? Irresistible offer!
No sig today...
In case you are wondering why everyone thinks that linux users are not worth supporting, the reason is you.
Down with selfish, greedy, self serving socially inept geeks, who believe that they deserve free access to what other people can't get because they have 1337 skills like downloading bittorrent.
Well done Sarkozy (by the way - the people who vote for him are going to love this. The people who don't vote, or already vote reflexively for Reyal, are going to hate it).
* Employment laws that allow you to sack non-performing, useless staff
* You don't need to worry about EU legislation (see below)
* They speak English (not French, also spoken by the Algerians and Vietnamese)
* The working week is longer than 35 hours
* People work during August
* The entire country doesn't get closed down by striking trade unions, or riots
* The mindset is entrepreneurial rather than rural
* They don't have to compete with governmental legislation to protect "local culture" (i.e. discrimination against foreign artists).
I don't agree with the pricing policy of, say, iTunes favouring Americans over Europeans. But if you're wondering why Kanye West's CDs cost more in France than America, the above list might be a starting point. Of course Sarkozy is trying to move France out of this rut. I wish him luck.
Welcome to France, its police, its repression, its president, its filter on internet ... the dream of a dictature come true.
I'm lucky to live in France.
http://parti-pirate.fr/?p=6
Given that Sarko's trying his best Thatcher imitation on France, I wouldn't be surprised. Not only is he union hostile, he's trying to make up for lost time by becoming as "business friendly" by being hostile to anyone but a (non European multinational) business.
Maybe next time they'll look a bit closer and have Sarko as the "gentleman for turning".
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
>>> It is also why the French Military really never amounted to much.
We had some nice warmongers around at many different times :
- Clovis: First unity of France as people and troop around 500
- Charlemagne : Expanding the country in direction of germany, around 800
- Louis XIV : expansion around the 1600/1700
- Building a vast colonial empire (in 1800/1900 french
empire was the second biggest after the english one)
- Helping american newfounders fight against Britain...
- Finally, france has often been a pioneer in war tactics and techniques
Of course, France, as every country, had its lot of defeats
(Waterloo, Trafalgar, early WW2) But each and every other country had
its own (remember Vietnam, Coree, North Afrika ?)
It's a brief post, by memory, i guess you could find more example of
both wins and losses. That was just to reply the above.
Hey, I've got an idea! How about if the state agrees to shut down the internet, we promise not to add noise to every DVD! _And_ we'll drop our demands for strip searches in theaters.
It seems very hypocritical for the French government to demand that ISPs cut Internet access to customers who download copyrighted data given the fact that France is widely known to be an aggressive practitioner of economic espionage against its allies. Apparently stealing billions of dollars worth of technological research from the companies of other countries is okay but downloading a $0.99 song is unforgivable.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I think they would adapt to the new model, continue to make movies, continue to make money, just not as much... Perhaps no-one would get 35 million a movie every time any more. And who knows, with less built-in profit due to an antiquated model, maybe theyll produce less crap. Online shopping didn't destroy retail chains, they adapted... looking at Best Buy and WalMart, and are doing quite well in some cases. Hell even Amazon changing the model for selling books didn't put Borders or Waldenbooks out of business. I think the major Theatre chains would be fine... you know there are people who prefer the theatre model, especially if more was done to make it an enjoyable experience - clean theatre, better quality food, etc etc etc... who knows, they could play the movie at the theatre and sell the dvd at the same time (c) and do promotions that arent currently available.