HP Skin Patch May Replace Needles

Iddo Genuth writes "HP and Crospon have developed a skin patch employing microneedles that barely penetrate the skin. The microneedles can replace conventional injections and deliver drugs through the skin without causing any pain. The skin patch technology also enables delivery of several drugs by one patch and the control of dosage and of administration time for each drug. It has the potential to be safer and more efficient than injections."

Comments

Well...

[F-3582]

I'd like to see someone draw blood through one of those... Should get you the clearest serum ever.

In speculative fiction for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

Micro-needles have been part of science fiction for at least 15 years. In Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash , one character has a sedative-filled needle implanted on her cervix in order to incapcitate a rapist.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[ozmanjusri]

one character has a sedative-filled needle implanted on her cervix in order to incapcitate a rapist.

Wouldn't a cheese-grater be quicker?

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[garbletext]

Ah, yes. The Vagina Dentata. Making scary Freudian dreams come to life for over 15 years!

For example: http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF051-Zarflax.jpg

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[RuBLed]

Implanting such thing into the cervix (or near its opening) is at the least very risky for the subject herself because when not sexually aroused there is almost no cavity present causing the subject to be injeected with the sedative unless she had some kind of antidote in her blood stream... oh wait.. this is /. ... no no.. forget what I said, I don't know anything about such things...

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[somersault]

http://www.rapestop.net/ got to wonder the type of person that would leave one of those in all the time

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[timmarhy]

what if she actually WANTED to have a fuck?

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[garbletext]

I know several police, and they're all terrified to be without a firearm, even off-duty or on furlough, sometimes going so far as to plan their vacations around which states have police gun treaties that will allow them to carry. Some people are just paranoid, I guess.

Although I don't see how this thing will help, it seems like a bleeding dick would not incapacitate the attacker enough to prevent him from beating the shit out of his victim instead of raping her.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[garbletext]

that exact thing happens in the book. YT engages in somewhat spontaneous consensual sex, then remembers the thing when the guy's passed out.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[timmarhy]

that thing is the worst fucking idea i've ever seen.

the inventor is just a fucking lab tech, which is nothing but a bozo off the street who got taught how to stick needles into someone. She attempts to talk her skills up saying she is a "blood technician", but i assure you there is no such qualification.(to qualify, i have worked in pathology labs)

read the FAQ, it's hilarious and disgusting at the same time, since it's full of stupid idea's but prey's on peoples fears at the same time.

some prize bits of the faq are " What motivated you to create this device?" (money) and "Won't the man initially feel this?" - yes he will feel the hooks digging into his cock, then he will bash the crap out of you, possibly turning a rape into a murder.

moronic devices like this aren't needed. there's things you can do to avoid rape that won't cost you a cent or involve shoving anything up your twat, such as don't put yourself in situations you KNOW are going to be risky eg. walking down a dark street at night dressed like a hooker

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

I think readers might be more familiar with this version of the Vagina Dentata.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[DigiShaman]

To slow. Should go for the bear trap instead.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

So that explains why my husband always passes out during sex...

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Ddalex]

It's called falling asleep...

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[PopeRatzo]

yes he will feel the hooks digging into his cock, then he will bash the crap out of you

I'm betting that a man with hooks in his jimmy would be too distracted to be beating anybody. Hell, just thinking about it brings me to my knees.

don't put yourself in situations you KNOW are going to be risky eg. walking down a dark street at night dressed like a hooker

Timmarhy, it sounds like you have some issues with women. You didn't by any chance have a bad experience with one of these Rapex devices, did you?

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[jotok]

It takes some people a while to separate "risk management" and "fault" or "blame." I can't pin down why, though I have some ideas.

I think the issue has to do with separating morally important acts with moral content from morally unimportant acts: rape has moral content, wearing this clothing or walking down that street does not.

Here's an example using street gangs: they wear different colors to identify themselves. So if you wear a red sweatshirt and the blue shirt gang shoots you, they did an immoral act, whereas your act cannot be construed as "immoral" and therefore you can't be blamed for your own shooting.

If you're going to allow such morally unimportant and therefore arbitrary factors when assigning blame, then you get a slippery slope where things that are not only unimportant but also beyond a person's control are used...such as your gender. So we find people saying, essentially, the man who raped the woman was not guilty--it was the woman's fault for A) being female and B) being around men, who cannot be expected to control themselves.

The obvious remedy is not for the law to enforce women's rights, nor for women to exercise their right as human beings to defend themselves, but rather to blame the women.

If this kind of reasoning makes sense to you, then you might be a Saudi judge.

Now, it is perfectly reasonable to advise people on risky behaviors: watch what you wear to reduce your chances of getting shot. Don't go get so drunk you can't stand up when you're all alone. Don't hold hands walking down Crime Alley in Gotham City. And so forth. But "being vulnerable" is still not an immoral act.

Some people do think it is, but they only want to justify their position of strength--alas, power doesn't justify itself, though powerful people wish it did.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[sgilti]

God, I wish I could find a link at work.. :)
The History Channel I believe did a thing on sex and sex devices throughout history. One segment included numerous patent filings with diagrams and whatnot for the plethora of violent devices designed to protect women from agressive men. Cheese-grater was really not that far off, and many of these were created and in use. There was a cheese-grater-like sheath I believe. Think metal condom with blades on the inside.. eek.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Eivind]

It's nonsense anyway. If these where common, rapists would know about them and remove them prior to rape.

If they where easily overlookable, and not noticeable to the woman, as is claimed on the site, then by far most victims would be lovers of the women in question, because women generally voluntarily have sex several orders of magnitude more often than they are raped.

So, in the end, the result would be some innocent men hurt. Some forgetful women sued. And no difference either way to rape-statistics.

That's even how it ended up in Snow Crash, no ? Y.T. doesn't think about the fact that she's wearing one when having sex with the wussname-guy that carries a nuke around and ends up having the Dentata inject some sorta tranquilizer into him.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[jollyreaper]

one character has a sedative-filled needle implanted on her cervix in order to incapcitate a rapist.

Wouldn't a cheese-grater be quicker? It's a good joke but the truth is that the last thing a woman wants is for a rapist with a hard-on to become a rapist with a butchered cock. He'd kill her at that point. It's better to knock the guy out and get away rather than risk leaving him maimed and enraged. Once he's knocked out, of course, his victim would be free to do as she pleases with his junk. I'm thinking something like a spring-loaded bear trap but scaled down to work on the winky.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[paleo2002]

Wow! How'd we jump from needle-less drug administration to weaponized birth control devices?

But, speaking of cyberpunk, these sound more like the slap patches and dots Molly used in Neuromancer for pain meds.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[breckinshire]

Is that why guys fall asleep after sex?

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Brian Gordon]

Guess you never read the book- and you need to it's required reading for slashdot >:|

It wasn't some giant needle that would tear him to pieces, it was a MICRO needle filled with sedative that knocks him out for 6 hours or so. She forgets to take it out at one point and hilarity ensues- especially as her partner was an infamous terrorist assassin with a bad temper.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

These devices only need to give her enough time to somehow incapacitate her attacker. I imagine the shock of having mini me run through a cheese grater would definitely throw an attacker off long enough that the victim can grab a can of pepper spray.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Kimos]

The you're describing an anti-rape female condom, frequently called a Dentata.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Abreu]

And you need to work on your reading comprehension, by "butchered cock" he meant the cheesegrater thing, not the sedative needle.

But its ok, it happens to the best of us.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[PopeRatzo]

rapists would know about them and remove them prior to rape

Just like that, huh? It sounds like you're not too familiar with female anatomy. I don't think it would be quite that easy for a rapist to remove one of these devices before proceeding.

Your comment reminds me of a recent episode of South Park, where Cartman's plan to swipe a book from the one of the girls was: "OK, Butters, you run up and kick her in the balls, and we'll grab the book". The first plan failed, but at least they learned that girls don't have balls.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[jollyreaper]

Guess you never read the book- and you need to it's required reading for slashdot >:|

It wasn't some giant needle that would tear him to pieces, it was a MICRO needle filled with sedative that knocks him out for 6 hours or so. She forgets to take it out at one point and hilarity ensues- especially as her partner was an infamous terrorist assassin with a bad temper. I've read Snowcrash. Also, the audiobook version is very good. I was just commenting on the cheese grater bit. Real life anti-rape inserts I've read about are less like cheese graters, more like apple slicers -- cylinder with razor blades tucked away inside. Dicks will check in but they won't check out. But again, it leaves the girl at the mercy of an enraged, mutilated rapist.

As far as the visual image goes of that chick and Raven getting it on, it sounds like the story of the perv who showed up at an ER in a trench coat. Why was he wearing the coat? To cover up the fact that he had a paralyzed dog stuck to the end of his penis. He tried raping the poor animal and it just clenched up and wouldn't come off. The clamping effect also prevented him from losing his erection. They managed to get the dog off but it died from massive internal damage.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Have Brain Will Rent]

That sounds reasonable.

Does wilful stupidity have a moral component to it? Does wilful stupidity that (reasonably predictably) causes an expense to others have a moral component to it? How about taking actions with known consequences and then complaining about the consequences when they arrive?

Aside from the question of moral culpability there are questions of sympathy and resource allocation. Someone may do something that predictably ends with negative consequences for them. Should we feel sympathy for that person? Should we expend effort to protect them from their own behavior when the effort could be spent on protecting others from things that they could not reasonably have prevented?

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Ksisanth]

The rapists just use another object first.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure you're not just making that up? The book doesn't mention the cervix at all. It also mentions needle singular and it entering the glans (I think). There are lots of examples micro-needles but the dentata is not a good example.

I think all of the books in Gibson's sprawl trilogy has real dermal patches. It might be based on something like DMSO but it's a better example than Stephenson's dentata.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[garbletext]

THey're designed to slide out easily once attatched to the penis. just use anything that will catch hooks. any piece of fabric should do.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[jotok]

No, there is no form of "stupidity" that has a moral component to it. People who say it does generally style themselves as smarter than everyone else, and therefore, above everyone else. Why're you doing it? Do you really feel sympathy based on whether or not someone could have "prevented" something? That's kind of the antithesis of empathy, you know? Pardon me if I'm a little skeptical about your motives, hoss.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

Your antirape condom only makes my penis harder!

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[bogd]

While I agree that this could cause the subject to be accidentally injected with the sedative (by contact between the patch and the vaginal walls), I really don't see the connection between cervical opening and sexual arousal. The size and shape of the cervical opening can vary for various causes (such as phases of the menstrual cycle, giving birth, or specific medical procedures). However, I have never heard of it varying through sexual arousal.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure about that paralyzed dog thing. I googled it to see if there were any other references, but found none. I think that urban legend comes from people watching dogs have sex and noticing that the male dog sometimes gets stuck. Since the male dog is obviously not wanting to be there, the assumption is that the female is holding him in place What is actually happening is that male dogs have a bulbus glandis (also called a knot) at the base of their penis that expands during sex and takes a while to shrink back to normal after ejaculation. It is the knot that holds him in place.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Brian Gordon]

15 year olds do have sex, contrary to what the US government would have you believe. So Snow Crash; anarchy; no such thing as "statutory rape" (mega scare quotes).

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Eivind]

You're just being silly.

First, the device is designed to slide out easily (and painlessly for the female) once it has attached to a penis. Just insert and withdraw any other random object.

Second, the device is described as being easy and quick for the female to insert or remove, if so it'll be aproximately equally easy for anyone else to do. Keep in mind that this is somebody being raped. "remove that thing or I blow your head off" will likely do the trick perfectly fine.

As for me being familiar with female anatomy, that's so wrong it's funny. How about a major in biology, and a mother who is a midwife and has literally shelf-meters on such for the theoretical part and having 3 kids for the practical part ?

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Wyvern2005]

Who said I wanted it to be fast?? And yes, I am a card carrying /.female....

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Wyvern2005]

You Go man!! Nice to see someone that can see both sides of the line here! Most appreciative, Lisa Waddell

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[mr100percent]

Actually it's in the book Emergency! True Stories from the Nation's ERs. The author found the doctor who treated the patient.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[PopeRatzo]

You're right, I'm being silly.

But this device is designed to be "out of sight". How would the rapist know that the woman is wearing this device before enacting penetration?

I imagine that the element of surprise is going to be a big part of the effectiveness of The Rapex. And once those fish-hooks are in place, the criminal will have more on his mind than revenge. Maybe later, but by then, I imagine the plan is for the woman to be far away and telling the police to be on the lookout for a brute with bloody BVDs.

I believe the most effective deterrent to rape is for women to learn self-confidence and self-defense. Most men who would hurt a woman tend to be cowards.

Re:In speculative fiction for a while

[Eivind]

I said "if the device becomes common". In that case a would-be rapist would assume there's a fair chance any random woman wears the device, and take precautions.

If the device is -not- common, it would have a sligthly higher chance of working for those few women who do use it, but in that case it would offcourse do little to change rape-statistics one way or the other.

I am also less than confident about the "no revenge" part. This seems like wishful thinking. Even if there's just 10% chance that the rapist will kill the woman, and then run away, and 90% chance that the woman will get away unhurt, is that gamble worthwhile ?

Being confident helps primarily in making the criminal choose a victim -different- from you. If *everyone* acts less like an ideal victim. It's sorta like being a big and strong-looking guy. It helps to some degree, but what helps isn't your objective size, but your size compared to the average, compared to the attacker.

If all males in the world got 2 inches taller and gained 10 pounds of muscle tomorrow, this would make no difference at all to the likelihood of say being assaulted or mugged as a male.

If *you* gained 2 inches and 10 pounds of muscle, with everyone else staying the way they are, yes, that would help -you-.

Did someone say hypospray?

[garbletext]

Finally, the most important star trek technology comes to the real world! Forget all that transporter, holodeck, or warp drive crap; we've got painless injections! woo!

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[selex]

Jet Injector. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_injector Already exist. From what I heard from military people who had it used on them it f**king hurts.

Now the question is HP? Really? The people who built my printer? And laptop? I guess that development of the inkjet has other applications.

Selex

Really?

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[Ravon Rodriguez]

not to mention that it could rip your skin open if you moved during application

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[DerekLyons]

They were pretty common in the 70's, I got more than a few vaccinations using them. Oddly enough, when I was in the Navy in the 80's I rarely saw them.

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[hagnat]

these were pretty common here in Brazil in the 80's and 90's. I still have my vaccine mark in my arm. As far as i remember, it hurt like hell.

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[Seumas]

Injections already ARE painless. Needles only hurt if you get a nurse who is too stupid to hit a vein the first twenty tries. Sometimes they blame the patient and "you have hard to find veins", but if it's so hard, why can most of the OTHER nurses do it in one shot?

Also, this patch is evil. This is just going to end up being a more convenient way to deliver brain-number drugs to the masses, so they'll be more pliable.

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[Elemenope]

Not for nothing but the actually painful injections tend to be the intramuscular ones...for which "finding a vein" is not part of the playbook. I agree though, a skilled intravenous needle shouldn't hurt; I donate blood regularly, and every flobotamist I've ever had worth half a damn did the original stick without more that a little minor discomfort. The damn spring loaded prick-needle for the anemia test hurts more.

Dude, re:patch=evil, I get where you are coming from--in theory--but this is way too cynical even for me. Sure this patch will make it easier to medicate kid's brains without the usual discomfort and protest, and that's surely bad (brainfucking should look painful enough to be discouraging, IMHO), but it also will help people like diabetics and cancer patients that need regular messy injections now that wouldn't if this patch were available. All technologies can be used for evil; the onus is always on us to use a new advance in ways that promote good and forbid evil, not vice versa.

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[jaweekes]

A company called "Powder Ject" has invented a syringe that doesn't use a needle. My brother worked on it for a few years, and even has his name on one of the patents. It's completely painless and only uses a tenth of the dosage a normal syringe would use.

I think Powder Ject has been purchased by another company, but I'm not sure which, and it was going to be released for this year's flu shot, although I haven't seen it yet.

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[Anonymous Coward]

For non-sissies, haven't injections been pretty much painless already?

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[Muad'Dave]

phlebotomist

Is a flobotomist someone who uses Flowbees to cut hair?

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[Elemenope]

Cute sig...the word fell out of my brain while I was still sleeping and, yes, I haven't written it in a long while. Good catch, annoying pedant. :)

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[phantomcircuit]

Yeah it is the printer development, sending liquid through a very small needle is basically what a printer is.

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[FrankSchwab]

I like the sig also.
It lends itself to a corollary that's almost as funny: Never use a word in spoken form that you've only read never heard. You will end up sounding foolish.

Re:Did someone say hypospray?

[garbletext]

So true... especially foreign ones. This is why it pays to look up words and know IPA.

Drug Dealers...

[Anonymous Coward]

Take note!

Consider the potential abuses

[Bozzio]

If this patch is reusable it could become the method of choice for heroin addicts.

On the other hand, it would be much safer than using needles.
You can't really share these, I assume.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[ResidntGeek]

Only for the advanced addicts, I'd think. This is a subcutaneous injection, if I'm not mistaken, which heroin users only turn to after they've used up their veins (slower absorption, you see - not as intense or immediate).

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[blind monkey 3]

Could this method be used to "wean them" off drugs? Controlled dosage and all that....

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[ResidntGeek]

It could, certainly, but it wouldn't add anything new. The problems with heroin addiction and the defeat thereof are properties of the drug itself, and can't really be mitigated. Many drugs cause users to develop tolerance, but heroin is so much stronger that continually taking the same dose won't even bring you back to normal - you have to increase the dose just to get back to normal after cravings, never mind feeling the same effects for repeated highs. The withdrawal is severe and physically dangerous, and it can be near-impossible to go cold turkey (or anywhere close) and survive if you're in too deep. Continuous subcutaneous absorption wouldn't do anything a controlled methadone drip wouldn't do, as far as breaking addiction.

None of this is firsthand information, of course, so the usual warnings about salt and its grains apply.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[phalse phace]

If it's anything like their inkjet cartridges, it won't be reusable (or cheap).

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[djupedal]

The patch is DNA matched and will only dispense when coupled with the prescriptionee. In addition, the patch allows for cross-marketing opportunities where the clinic/pharmacy owners can also choose to dose the recipient with a compound triggering a Starbucks or Taco Bell purchase. "Mocha grande, please."

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the largest addiction factors is the "come up" when heroin is injected. Sex really does pale to the opiate rush of IVed heroin. Yeah, the dreams are vivid, but no more than oxycodone.

Posted AC so google doesn't come back to haunt me one day.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[Opportunist]

We're talking a printer manufacturer here. I bet those things have some kind of chip inside that makes dead sure you can't refill them.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[Anonymous Coward]

All(?) of the opioids (heroin, oxycodone, etc.), benzodiazepans (valium, klonopin, ambien), barbiturates, and alcohol all cause attenuation over time (less effect for same amount of drug), physical withdrawal symptoms when discontinued (a majority of them can be lethal if withdrawn too quickly from a high usage scenario), and overdoses can be lethal. Nasty stuff.

You would never inject heroin (or meth, coke etc.) in anything but a vein, though, because it would feel like someone stabbed you with a red-hot-poker, and it would take ages to get a high.

With meth (the only one I have personal experience with), you'll occasionally have users getting high midway through an injection, losing control over the needle and pushing some of the drug into the surrounding tissue -- this is never intentional though.

Meth doesn't have the withdrawal issues of e.g. heroin (and I don't believe it's possible to lethally OD on it based on available literature), but it destroys your life in so many other ways. The last time I looked, the recidivism rate was 94% for people who wanted to quit. Skip this one if you haven't tried it. (If you're using, you won't listen to me anyways, besides you've got this thing under control, right? ;-)

M.L.
(clean since Jan 1, 2006)

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[rbochan]

We're talking a printer manufacturer here. I bet those things have some kind of chip inside that makes dead sure you can't refill them.

Yeah, and the replacements will cost 400 times what the original cost.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[Opportunist]

What I'd expect is a patch that has about 0.00001 ml of fluid in it that costs a buck and refils with 40ml each costing a few hundred bucks.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[tehcyder]

If it's anything like their inkjet cartridges, it won't be reusable (or cheap)

If it's anything like their printers it won't even work for more than a couple of days.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[Lord Ender]

They also start popping up messages telling you that you are low on your medication cartridge levels six months before you actually run out.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[Abreu]

Thank you for your candid, informative comment.

(MOD THIS UP!)

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[ResidntGeek]

You would never inject heroin (or meth, coke etc.) in anything but a vein, though, because it would feel like someone stabbed you with a red-hot-poker, and it would take ages to get a high.

Not by choice, no, but there comes a time in every addict's life when he's used up even the veins in his fingers and toes, and he has no choice but subcutaneous or intramuscular injection.

And thanks for the warning about meth, that's one of the drugs I plan to die without trying. I'll give a weaker amphetamine a go if I have a chance, though (any recommendations? :) (note to DEA: I'm kidding, please don't come to my house and rape me, I'd never use any of the evil, God-killing amphetamines). Congratulations on staying clean, that's said to be one of the most difficult things in the world to do.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[Anonymous Coward]

I've done 48 different recreational drugs over the years, including injecting all of the usual suspects, plus a few more. I can't seem to get addicted to anything, but I have befriended a number of addicts over the years, so I know a lot about IV drug user's habits: After running out of obvious veins people start going for the backs of their legs, genitalia, the big abdominal one, then the neck. I have a feeling that once your jugular vein is dead, so are you. Heroin addicts have the option of rectal administration, and coke heads can always smoke it instead of injecting it. I've never known anyone to purposely IM cocaine, that would be begging for an abscess. You can get away with some IM injection of opiates and opioid, so I suspect some users do. It is easy to do accidentally though since it numbs the area completely, also frequent users can suffer from "leaky veins," so feeling it around the injection site is normal for them.

If you're intersted in amphetamines, meth isn't really that bad, it's more how you take it then anything. It is the same in effect as d-amphetamine (Dexedrine), other then the duration which is about four hours for d-amphetamine and eight hours for methamphetamine. Dexedrine is the most euphoric of the commonly prescribed CNS stimulants, with the least side effects at recreational doses. Adderall is 75% d-amphetamine and 25% l-amphetamine, the l-amphetamine can result in an uncomfortable body load. Ritalin is less fun, Modafinil even more so. An interesting thing about amphetamines is that the dose varies widely: For one girl I knew 0.5mg was the most she could take without side effects. I can take 5mg and feel euphoria, the most I generally take is 30mg or I can't control my impulsively. However, many I know can take 100mg+ and only feel as if they have drank a cup or two of coffee. Ideally, you should start with Dexedrine (or Methedrine if you can get it), orally, and at about 2.5mg.

A good, nerd friendly place to find out more about drugs is The Lycaeum.

Re:Consider the potential abuses

[ResidntGeek]

Well, I certainly bow to your superior experience. I'm not really that interested in amphetamines (and if I were I'd only say it anonymously), but thanks for the info. It's not too hard to find info on drugs these days, but to find intelligent users is certainly a challenge (which is cause, and which is effect, I'll leave for another time). Well met, sir.

one more brick in the wall

[User 956]

The skin patch technology also enables delivery of several drugs by one patch and the control of dosage and of administration time for each drug.

Excellent. So when does Soma come out?

Wuh?

[scatters]

Ok, so I'm confused. Didn't HP get out of medical research and products when it divested Agilent in order to focus on its core computer/printer business?

Re:Wuh?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably a fruit of those sell-your-soul-for bread employment contracts giving company right on anything (no matter how remote to company's core business) novel their employees make up while employed there.

Re:Wuh?

[bynary]

That was under the terrible reign of Carly Fiorina. Mark Hurd seems to have taken HP back to its roots.

Re:Wuh?

[Trent Hawkins]

this might be a by product of their printer technology. Just think about it, a low level technician was working one night on an ink injector and notices "hey! I just injected my self with half a gallon of ink and didn't even notice it!". He quickly dies and his manager then presents the idea to re-design their new ink injectors in to drug injectors and makes a cool million on it.

Previously on Slashdot

[Dr. Eggman]

Last we heard this was in the prototype phase. Btw, the search function is terrible.

Re:Previously on Slashdot

[Smordnys s'regrepsA]

I'm glad someone else noticed. Does anyone know if there is anything new in this post, or are we just rehashing old news?


Oh, and next time just use Google (site:SlashDot.org "YourPhraseHere"), it is a thousand times easier.

Re:Previously on Slashdot

[Dr. Eggman]

Thats actually how I ended up finding it. Didn't get it from Slashdot's search on any of the phrases: "HP", "patch", "drugs", "microneedles", "printers", etc.

Re:Previously on Slashdot

[Kimos]

You should have searched via the tagging (beta). Pretty same to assume that the old article was also tagged as "hypospray".

Niccotine patch did it already?

[shoolz]

If I remember correctly from one of my quit-smoking tries, this is exactly how the nicotine patches worked. Nicotine delivered my thousands of miniature needles. So... what's new here exactly?

Re:Niccotine patch did it already?

[Thanshin]

Those work through the skin. Transdermal patch

This ones enter through micro needles.

Now we need sensors in those patches

[Thanshin]

If this technology triumphs, the next addition should be sensors that control the release of chemicals taking the current situation into consideration.

For example, a patch could sense the cardiac rhythm and control it chemically. Another could control blood sugar, etc.

What I imagine is someone witnessing a car accident, taking four patches from his car's medikit putting them in different parts of the hurt person and calling an ambulance while the patches stabilize the patient.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[devjj]

The lawyers are going to have a field day with that one.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[Ihlosi]

If this technology triumphs, the next addition should be sensors that control the release of chemicals taking the current situation into consideration.

No company wants to open that bag of liability issues. If your device makes medical decisions (instead of leaving them to a physician), you make yourself a big fat blinking glowing target for all sorts of legal trouble. Current example: Infusion pumps. While studies show that feedback-controlled infusion pumps lead to better patient outcomes, no company wants to make them because they don't want to get slapped with a multi-million-dollar lawsuit for the one patient in a thousand who thinks he might have had a better outcome with a standard infusion pump.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[Thanshin]

Ok, we need sensors in the patches and a better legal system that doesn't bind the minds and souls of men with ropes of fear.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[kaizokuace]

When you talk about administering chemicals according to the situation I think of the futuristic body armor suits in many sci-fi writings. Most recently in Mass Effect where your suit can have first aid upgrades that inject you with all sorts of stuff. I would like to see performance enhancing drugs administered. Maybe when adrenaline spikes in your body (from imminent car accident or even someone tries to attack you) some drugs that increase reaction times and pain killers or whatever get shot into your blood stream.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[Anonymous Coward]

And then if you see someone you don't like you just take two-three of these cardiac rhythm patches and places them on him pretty quickly and flee the scene. He'd never see it coming!

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[Thanshin]

Or fill a syringe with whatever chemical poison you've got at home and stick it into him; it's faster, cheaper and can go through thick clothes.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[eth1]

No, the patches just need to detect when they've been put on an ambulance chasing lawyer and release cyanide instead of their normal payload.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[Lord Ender]

I thought the whole point of the corporate system was to protect us from the lawyers? For a product like this, you create a new corp, pay the profits out as dividends as soon as they come in, and if the lawyers ever get to you, they can only kill your corporate charter--they can't take the money you paid yourself while the lawsuits made their way through the courts.

The first corporations allowed investors to finance ships to sail to America in search of gold, but stopped the lawyers from bankrupting the investors if the ship sunk and killed the crew. This is where the expression "when my ship comes in" originates.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[MtViewGuy]

I think the biggest user of these new patches will be diabetics, who can soon slap on a patch loaded with a pre-measured amoung of insulin for maybe 20-25 minutes and get an extremely precise dose of that insulin.

Re:Now we need sensors in those patches

[Bourdain]

What about implantable defibrillators? Those make decisions based on involved measurements and formulas which are, as far as I know, generally agreed upon in the medical industry.

Further, I'd imagine someone having one implanted would have to sign some sort of release form. That being said, anyone who carries these devices in his car would have to sign a form too most likely -- either that, or legislation would likely pass such that that wouldn't be necessary (big money = big lobbyists)

Tattoos

[Nefarious Wheel]

I could imagine instant tattoos -- patches with designs on them, subcutaneous injection of inks.

Just add alcohol.

Re:Tattoos

[Woogiemonger]

I could imagine instant tattoos -- patches with designs on them, subcutaneous injection of inks.

Off-topic, but, tattoo technology *is* improving this year. Dye will be stored in small capsules, that can be burst open by laser and thus removed easily with a single laser treatment: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19845335/ So yes, maybe it'll be easier to get tattoos as well.

Re:Tattoos

[Nocterro]

Actually, forget about the ink.

Re:Tattoos

[KidKadaver]

I could imagine instant tattoos -- patches with designs on them, subcutaneous injection of inks. So, what you're saying is that now tramp stamps will be an actual stamp? Neat.

A bit late...

[Anonymous Coward]

HP is a little slow on this one. I've been replacing things with skin patches for years now. The Sims, Oblivion...

Pain?

[PrinceAshitaka]

I just recently had my flu immunization. Those needles are small. I barely felt it. Is this really a pain reduction breakthrough?

Re:Pain?

[garbletext]

It's a breakthrough for pussies.

Re:Pain?

[Thanshin]

It's a breakthrough for pussies. No, the needles are too small to go through the fur.

Re:Pain?

[garbletext]

No, the needles are too small to go through the fur.

actually, I prefer them shaved

Re:Pain?

[rts008]

You prefer shaved cats? Man, that's kinky.
How do you get the cat to hold still?

Re:Pain?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is estimated that about 10% of people (including me) have a phobia of needles (trypanophobia). For many people, this phobia is associated with a sudden drop in blood pressure, causing fainting and such, at the time of injection. I know that I am perfectly capable of being fairly calm before getting a shot, and generally don't feel terribly afraid, but will still end up nauseous and probably faint afterwards. So I'm interested in this not so much for the pain reduction, but because this probably wouldn't cause that reaction for me. I'd love not to have to worry about fainting after getting an injection.

Re:Pain?

[nahdude812]

From a pain perspective, I find it unlikely there'll be any real advancement here. You're right, certain shots have such tiny needles that most of the pain felt is actually imagined.

It won't replace all needles. Blood drawing and intramuscular shots won't be able to be delivered this way, and they are definitely more painful than IV or subcutaneous shots. I doubt even IV shots would be replaceable with this.

Also not even all subcutaneous shots can be administered with a small needle; some of them have a high viscosity base and need a wider needle to deliver; I doubt they are able to be converted to nano needles.

It does increase safety since there's no sharp needle with patient blood on it for the nurse to worry about.

Some shots though could result in a substantially smaller dose if administered this way. Research in this area is still emerging but it has been shown, for example, that if properly applied, the Flu shot (among other vaccines) is just as effective, or even more effective if delivered properly subcutaneously at very small doses. Unfortunately it is challenging to delivery correctly with conventional needles, and the consequence of not delivering it correctly is greatly reduced or no protection at all. A patch might make that delivery easy. This research is still in trials though, so although it looks promising, it's too early to tell if it's viable for normal use.

Re:Pain?

[somersault]

Yep, I don't particularly like needles, but I know they don't particularly hurt when going in, only when it's getting taken back out. Of course the last few needles I've taken have been pretty large, for blood samples/giving blood, but even the small ones still feel like someone yanking a hair out :P

Re:Pain?

[SocialEngineer]

Those of us who deal with a fear of needles welcome tech like this with open arms. I had some rough experiences as a child (we'll leave it at that) which has made it difficult for me to handle any sort of needle - I can't even watch it on TV. It doesn't really hurt much at all, but the act of getting punctured by large needles (any needle I can see and feel the tip on is large to me) makes me stress out like nobody's business.

Then you have to deal with needles that have been used (but sterilized) that have burrs on the end. Those hurt.

Re:Pain?

[adam.dorsey]

Chloroform.

Re:Pain?

[Avatar8]

The pain from most shots is not necessarily from the delivery of the shot. Some, like Tetanus boosters, use large needles due to the syrupy nature of the drug and those DO hurt going in. You can stare down the bore of a tetanus needle.

I think this breakthrough is dealing more with the after affects pain caused by the dermis having to repair itself from a "rip." Some people bruise, others develop a knot and most simply have a tender spot for 12-24 hours. Whereas the epidermis repairs quickly and painlessly all the time.

Either way, hypodermics are the only phobia I have. For years it was because of the pressure changes I felt when given a shot and feeling cold fluids enter my blood stream, but in later years my phobia has developed more into the fear of NOT feeling a shot and having chemicals delivered into my system without my knowledge. At least my tinfoil hat can deflect hypos to the head. :-) While I'll welcome the removal of the pain during and after the shot from this technology, it may make my paranoia of secretive drug delivery worse.

Re:Pain?

[tehcyder]

It is estimated that about 10% of people (including me) have a phobia of needles (trypanophobia). For many people, this phobia is associated with a sudden drop in blood pressure, causing fainting and such, at the time of injection. I know that I am perfectly capable of being fairly calm before getting a shot, and generally don't feel terribly afraid, but will still end up nauseous and probably faint afterwards. So I'm interested in this not so much for the pain reduction, but because this probably wouldn't cause that reaction for me. I'd love not to have to worry about fainting after getting an injection.

As this is presumably a psychological rather than physical reaction, what makes you think that you won't suffer exactly the same reaction with the new system?

Re:Pain?

[bersl2]

As someone who is not exactly as calm as the GP (i.e., I need my normal anti-anxiety medicine, plus an additional sedative, plus diphenhydramine to exaggerate the side effects, in order to even go through it all without (almost) passing out---and I still need to be held down), I can say that its about the sight and feeling of the thing.

If I can't see it (it's microscopic) or feel it (it doesn't go deep enough to hit any nerves), is it really there? I know it's there, but does my subconscious?

My question is whether this device will work for huge assemblies of huge molecules (i.e., vaccinations)? Because I'd pay quite a bit not to have to worry about observing my senses serially shutting down---yes, I feel my circulatory system lose pressure and my heart palpitate, I see a gradual fade to black, then I hear a gradual fade to tinnitus; I never quite pass out, and I think that's the most traumatic part of it.

Re:Pain?

[fbartho]

Not if he doesn't think of them as hundreds of microneedles. If he just thinks of it as a patch, then there's no visual reminder that there are many little needles. It depends how it's marketed, and how he can view the product at the crucial time.

Re:Pain?

[krack]

I just trained my pussy cat to shave itself.

Stinging nettle

[lmpeters]

This actually sounds kind of like how stinging nettle works. I recently touched some by accident, and I can assure you, the needles on the surface of that leaf are so small that I couldn't feel them at all.

The cocktail of formic acid and histamines contained within the needles, on the other hand, were quite noticeable (ouch!). Of course, I'm assuming that HP is not planning to use this invention to deliver anything that's painful by design.

Re:Stinging nettle

[Anonymous Coward]

You can be sure that that's exactly what the bush administration will do.

Re:Stinging nettle

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting, the histamine reaction from stinging nettle is used for treatment of allergies, particularly seasonal, breathing-related allergies like wheezing/asthma. A double-blind study shows it works, although I'm too lazy to find a link. I'm not sure exactly how it's supposed to work, since the nettle actually causes an allergic response on its own... but anyway, the stinging nettle can be ingested as a tea or in taken in capsules.

Note- IANAD.

Re:Stinging nettle

[Psychotria]

You can actually eat the stinging nettle; boiling the leaves in water "decomposes" all those pesky hyperdermic needles that inject you with the histamines and other substances. I wonder how the technology begin developed by HP holds up under extreme heat conditions... probably better than the nettle.

Re:Stinging nettle

[Psychotria]

Urtica, a prominent genus of the stinging nettle has been used medicinally. I don't know about the asthma link, but nettle tea is an astringent used as a wash (externally) or as a method to mitigate bleeding (taken internally). It is known that the plants bind immunoglobin G and, therefore, reduce sensitivity to food allergies (and possibly asthma).

The formic acid mentioned by the GP is destroyed by boiling. The leaves are high in vitamins and minerals (A, C, D, calcium, phosphorous, iron, silica and others).

Sorry I didn't answer your question, but it is a useful plant nonetheless... actually all genera in the family are useful in similar ways. I'd like also to know about a link to a credible source that indicates that the plants are useful as an asthma curative.

Re:Stinging nettle

[jimicus]

I don't imagine it's a big deal - unless you want to eat HP skin patches.

Re:Stinging nettle

[jollyreaper]

The cocktail of formic acid and histamines contained within the needles, on the other hand, were quite noticeable (ouch!). Of course, I'm assuming that HP is not planning to use this invention to deliver anything that's painful by design. Have you used their drivers lately?

Re:Stinging nettle

[Zabu]

I'm assuming that HP is not planning to use this invention to deliver anything that's painful by design.

Have you ever purchased an ink cartridge?

changelog

[Carbon016]

CHANGELOG for Skin Patch 1:

• Epidermis: fixed issue with insensitivity to ultraviolet radiation resulting in annoying burns (also partially fixes bug tracker issue #450 with cancerous cells)
• Epidermis: code related to debugging disease that causes red blotches ("rashes") replaced with more descriptive dialog box
• General: Scabies can no longer burrow
• General: Reduced frequency of infection of hair follicles
• General: Severe wounds now result in core dump rather than scar tissue, related output logged to %\dump.txt

Re:changelog

[pragma_x]

Sweet.

Any word on when the bugfix for #212 Androgenic Alopecia is going to be done? The recommended workaround, running the Monoxodil UI, is costing me a fortune in license fees.

Something similiar.

[dunezone]

Back in 1998 I had surgery on one of my kidneys. Because theres usually a wait and you have to be at the hospital several hours before the surgery they tried this method of numbing my skin so it wouldn't hurt when they put the needles in. Basically all they did was put cream down and put a clear patch on top of it, needless to say it still hurt and was useless.

Re:Something similiar.

[Anonymous Coward]

I had the exact same thing when I was younger. I needed some blood taken and for some reason they wanted to get it from my hand. They slapped on a bit of that cream stuff with the clear patch, and like you said, it did nothing! Hurt like hell.

Re:Something similiar.

[Palpitations]

Chances are that was EMLA cream (Eutectic Mixture of Local Anesthetics). Basically a lido/prilocaine topical. According to the linked article, it numbs around 3-5mm deep after being in place for 60-120 minutes. Less for thicker skin, or anything deeper then the dermis. I'm guessing they slapped it on there, had you wait a few minutes (far less than an hour I'm sure), and then did the draw.

Why the hell they would bother is beyond me. The only reasons I can think of would be to help someone who was nervous think they'd be numb, or to add another thing to bill for. Applied properly, it does help a bit - takes things down from a sharp sting to more of a dull one in my experience. Nothing amazing in any case.

Re:Something similiar.

[penthouseplayah]

Thats for children. The gel (lidocain, localanastethic) has to be in contact for at least an hour to work. Adults generelly don't need that, unless they're mentally ill, or the hospital charges for the patch. If done correctly its possible to stitch 2 year old children in the lips this way.

For anestethic below the dermis, infiltration analgesia is used via an thin needle.

Beware

[OpenSourced]

The new technology is similar to the technology employed in HP's patented process for its inkjet cartridges.

I foresee scores of people walking around with the HP logo tattooed where the patch was. Later the advertising space will be sold to other companies. Attempts to sue will be stymied by the fact that the devices will come with an EULA that clearly states that your skin doesn't belong to you while using the device, and the device can leave residues there. You will be forced to accept the EULA or else die from your sickness, but HP's lawyers will insist that was you "free and informed decision".

Just wait.

Re:Beware

[Dvinn]

The real question will be how much the refills cost?

Thank god...

[moondo]

I nearly passed out because of the anxiety of having a needle stuck in my arm. But then, when the nurse stuck the needle in, and it actually hurt like hell I knew I was going to pass out. The nurse started asking me all these random questions to stop me from passing out. 'What a pussy!' you must be thinking, but I swear this nurse didn't know how to insert a needle... oh the horror.

Re:Thank god...

[muffel]

'What a pussy!' you must be thinking

Correct.

Re:Thank god...

[DeeQ]

Biggest mistake you can make is watching it go in. Other than that needles are not that bad. Only when they have to do it multiple times because they miss the spot makes me sick.

Re:Thank god...

[Anonymous Coward]

I once committed DUI.
I was taken to hospital for blood test and the handless nurse didn't know what the hell she was doing. I tell her first "Take the right arm, there's no visible veins on the left". Despite this, she stabbed my left arm a couple of times before giving up. Then she finally tried the other arm. Still couldn't hit the vein properly even thou I showed her where to stick the damn needle.
When she finally managed to hit the vein I was pissed off enough to drop my heart rate on purpose so she had to drip the blood drop by drop.

Re:Thank god...

[Opportunist]

Tell me about it. Every time they try to draw blood from me it's like a trial drilling for oil.

It's not so much the pain, it's more that my ellbow pit looks like I'm a junkie or something for days. Now try to wear a t-shirt to work.

Re:Thank god...

[Solra Bizna]

I have unusually, inhumanly low body fat. I'm just about as underweight as it's possible to be without there being an immediate medical danger.

Last time I was immunized, they had to pinch my arm to get enough muscle to inject into. On their first four tries, the needle stabbed me in the bone.

IT HURT.

-:sigma.SB

Re:Thank god...

[vorpal22]

I have to admit that I was this way when I was younger... needles would give me panic attacks.

A few colonoscopies really put things in perspective, though. Now needles - even the massively long needled B12 injection my partner has to give me every month, which requires a few pre-injection beers - are generally a walk in the park.

I guess that's why I read this article and though, "Huh. What a waste of research time."

Types of injection

[Wilson_6500]

So this is great for stuff that you can put in subcutaneously. What about intravenous injections? What about intramuscular? Intraperitoneal? What about substances that are made up of large (several micron) particles, such as the sufur colloid injections used by nuclear medicine studies? Those could get stuck in superfine-gauge needles.

I think it's a little premature to say that this patch will replace conventional injections entirely. It might seem obvious that a patch couldn't really hope to deliver injections into the muscles without penetrating all the layers of skin, but I think it at least bears mentioning.

Re:Types of injection

[aadvancedGIR]

Moreover, it will probably only work for very small volumes, so don't expect that technology to totally replace the good old needle. The only goal of this is to extend the range of medecines someone can inject himself whithout needing a nurse or special training.
Classic patches, such as nicotine ones, work because the skin is porous to that chemical, so there are strong limitations to what can be done with them, but for a diabetic, it could be awesome: instead of injecting himself a large dose of insulin now and then, he could use a patch and have his insulin slowly and regulary injected. Too much insulin, remove the patch for a couple of hours, too little, add a second one for a couple of hours. Simple, painless and safe.

Re:Types of injection

[parcel]

but for a diabetic, it could be awesome: instead of injecting himself a large dose of insulin now and then, he could use a patch and have his insulin slowly and regulary injected. Too much insulin, remove the patch for a couple of hours, too little, add a second one for a couple of hours. Simple, painless and safe. Now that they've stopped producing Exubera (well, will stop in 2 more months) it's great to hear about this kind of thing. I never really understood this (supposed? real?) consumer disinterest in inhaled insulin. Especially now starting back on injections, it was SO much easier with the inhaled stuff.

Not even just for lack of pain - one of the biggest benefits, at least to me, was no longer having to take shots in the car with people walking by thinking i'm a heroin addict, or in a restaurant bathroom which always felt dirty no matter how clean it actually was. Not having my car searched by cops because I accidentally left a needle in the glove box, which they saw when I pulled out my registration... those kind of things I think are huge benefits which people don't really think of. Or maybe it's just me.

Either way, the less things puncturing my skin, the better.

Re:Types of injection

[Muad'Dave]

I'd rather the insulin patch be smart enough to stop injecting when the blood glucose level is ok. Perhaps it could detect changes in perspiration under the patch or the optical qualities of the blood (like an O2 sat meter).

Re:Types of injection

[aadvancedGIR]

Keep calm, we (and I in particular, as a non-diabetic not working in healthcare) don't know if or when insulin patches will be produced. It was just that it was almost obviously the killer app for this kind of technology, and with the unfortunately huge potential market, I can't see why the big pharma corps won't invest in it in the next few years.

Re:Types of injection

[parcel]

I know it's a ways off, but it's certainly still good news. Although Lilly is still going forward with their inhalable, I do wonder if it will meet the same fate. I don't mind going back to injections for a few years, it's just nice to not have all the eggs in one basket as far as alternative delivery goes.

Hands of blue..

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone else notice that the researchers hands - were 'hands of blue'?
Hmmmm...

Bad headline

[quigonn]

should be "...may replace canulas" (canulae?). A needle is something you use for sewing, but you use a canula for an injection.

Re:Bad headline

[PCM2]

Hypodermic needle. Hypo ("under") dermic ("the skin"). Pretty commonplace tool, actually. Cannulae, on the other hand, are used for IVs.

Re:Bad headline

[quigonn]

No. It's a canula as soon as it's hollow. A hypodermic "needle" is just a special type of canula. And after all, luer tapers are pretty much standardized, and thus, canulae can be attached to both IVs and syringes.

Re:Bad headline

[PoopMonkey]

Where's the pedant mod when you need it... And it's cannulas anyway.

Re:Bad headline

[BoothbyTCD]

Can we replace pedants with Wikipedia?

Novelty?

[$pearhead]

How is this microneedle-thing different, from eg. this?

Oh please...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, there will be some liability concerns but with proper testing and FDA approval, only an actual fuck up is going to really expose a company to liability. Meanwhile, the possible benefits of such sensor injectors are immense.

1. Sensors could detect the presence of substances which cause problems when combined with a given medication (e.g. alcohol, other medications). It can then abort the injection and alert the patient. This could save lives and would be especially useful for non-critical medications (i.e. missing a dose won't kill you).
2. Medications could be properly loaded into the system and levels could be properly maintained. Not only can this keep the system at a more constant level, but it means patients will not have to worry about forgetting to take their medication.
3. Diabetics. Blood sugar levels could be properly maintained in real time.
4. Emergency response. Imagine a pack that checks for certain conditions and responds accordingly. Probably not for every day use, but could save lives during disasters.
5. Zillions of military uses.
6. Making sure people take all their freakin' antibiotics.

Slap patches are wiz man!

[akerasi]

But will these leave me with an aftertaste of olives? I sure hope not...

Hmmmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya know, im not so sure that this is want i want. HP gets enough under my skin as it is ;)

tiny

[avalean]

With a needle that small i would imagine it would take a while to administer a certain dosage. Doc : "Nurse, 20cc of Toradol" Nurse : "It will take a few hours!"

Old news?

[fanboyslayer]

I remember reading about this as a preteen in MUSE magazine... oh, probably eight to ten years ago. I don't remember all the details, but the article mentioned attaching a sort of syringe to deal with larger volumes of medication..

Re:Old news?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's where all those old HP ink cartridges come in. Those with the patch on the bottom

Well, sorry.

[Ihlosi]

Yes, there will be some liability concerns but with proper testing and FDA approval, only an actual fuck up is going to really expose a company to liability.

That changes when your device starts making decisions which are usually left to a physician. There's only a very small number of devices out there that do so right now (AEDs, implantable defibrillators and such), and they base their decisions on fairly trivial parameters and only act when the likely outcome of not doing so is a dead patient.

Meanwhile, the possible benefits of such sensor injectors are immense.

Companies don't exist for immense benefits for humanity. They exist for immense profits for their shareholders, and hence have to try to avoid anything that could cut into these profits. Like multi-million-dollar lawsuits.

Oh, and I do work in the medical devices industry.

Re:Well, sorry.

[Anonymous Coward]

I would consider the "decisions" an ICD makes to be no more severe than those of a drug patch. The most feedback you can expect is to detect a stimulus and respond with a release. Modern ICDs have the potential to have a lot of control over a heart, if chosen, and I don't see how this is any different.

Anyway, as a worker in the medical device industry, you should be aware that a combination device is going to be under much higher scrutiny in the FDA at the moment, especially after the mess with drug eluting stents. I would say the normal regulatory system can handle such a product safely.

(For those not in the industry, drug-eluting stents turned out to increase the risk of late thrombosis over bare metal stents. This was not detected in clinical trials, and the risk of such an event now must be weighed against the risk of restinosis they were intended to fix. Personally, I would go with the restinosis, but that isn't medical advice.)

I also work in the medical device industry.

I can see a drawback though

[AndyTayl0r]

The skin patch technology also enables delivery of several drugs by one patch and the control of dosage and of administration time for each drug.
So as it is an HP product, when one drug runs out, you will have to change the whole patch.

Never mind that...

[denzacar]

Didn't you see the part of the Roswell UFO in the upper left corner of that photo?

I say... Kids these days. Brains fried by MTV, don't see the important bits any more.

One TLA bears to mind...

[mach1980]

ESD getting the patch to release all its contents in one go... Instant trip to choir invisible.

iSummer of Love

[nerdyalien]

With this new invention, people find it more less-painful to inject hard drugs to the blood stream and get high !!!

See you there in San Francisco with my Caravan, hippie clothes, vintage guitar and Flowers !!!

me too...

[hummassa]

And I remember vividly that it hurts like hell. So, no Star Trek here.

Re:me too...

[garbletext]

The whole point of the article is that the device is painless. Unless they're totally lying about that fact, it's not the same device the thing you're thinking of from decades ago. Superficial similarity doesn't mean they work the same way.

Can this be true?

[thogard]

Is HP turning back into the type of company it was decades ago?

Stimpacks?

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Invent micro-needle patch thing
2) Make a caffeine patch
3) Profit

*t*
CHHHHHHHT AWWWWWW YEAH.

Depends.

[Ihlosi]

Of course, I'm assuming that HP is not planning to use this invention to deliver anything that's painful by design.

Depends on what kind of government contracts they're getting. I bet some agencies out there are just drooling at the prospect of having ready-made, pre-packaged units of pain that do not leave any permanent marks or damage at their disposal.

Re:Depends.

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet some agencies out there are just drooling at the prospect of having ready-made, pre-packaged units of pain that do not leave any permanent marks or damage at their disposal.

It already exists. Go into your local software-retailer and look for a box labeled "Microsoft Windows Vista".

Re:Depends.

[Ihlosi]

It already exists. Go into your local software-retailer and look for a box labeled "Microsoft Windows Vista".

I thought that was nausea, not pain ...

Forget drawing blood... we're turning into pussies

[Anonymous Coward]

Painless injections too now? Great, now I can watch my generation further deteriorate into a blabbering collection of pussies, unable to deal with any sort of physical hardship or pain. The next big leap forward will be when they can administer open-heart surgery in convenient chewable-tablet form.

Re:Forget drawing blood... we're turning into puss

[cayenne8]

Hmm...will people still get AIDS from sharing 'patches'......?

Much more painful in the end

[holyspidoo]

It looks painless, but then you have to remove norton, roxio, sonic and pc doctor from your patch. And even though you try, you'll always have bits of roxio left in your blood afterwards.

Bundle

[SmellTheFlames]

I wonder if they are going to bundle it with thousands of bloatware/crapware

Well, that'll make date rape easier

[JeremyDuffy]

The first thing I thought of was how easy that will make it to drug people without their knowledge. Sticking someone with a needle is pretty obvious, but this? Ugh.

it's not the needle that does it

[pak9rabid]

In my experience, it's not the needle prick that's painful but the medicine being injected into you. Maybe they should work on getting that not to sting so much.

Saw This About Ten Years Ago

[CheshireCatCO]

Pretty much exactly this idea (completely with microscopic view of a prototype) was featured about a decade or so ago in Scientific American. (I think it was SciAm, anyway.) I don't recall who was working on the product at that time — I doubt it was HP, but I find myself wondering what's either different about this version (perhaps the system of propelling the drugs through the microneedles?) or why the other product hasn't appeared/taken off yet and, as a result, why this will do better.

Beowulf cluster

[dynomitejj]

HP making skin patches.... HMMMMMM... I want a supercomputer that I can patch on my skin !

Shadowrun!

[kannibul]

Stimpatches here I come!

Someone gimmie 20 of them!

I'll take on EVERYONE until someone shoots me with a spitwad and rolls 6, and another 6, and another 6, and another 6...crazy game was like bowling - where a small pistol could take out a troll, but a RPG couldn't...

nifty

[jmickle]

im not sure what idea is scarier. needs down below or the idea of being able to slap a patch on some girl and drugging her in seconds... hmmmmm

Re:Forget drawing blood... we're turning into puss

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, I would have loved something like this when I was going through chemotherapy. Getting stuck a couple of times a week for a 3 months while you're nauseated and weak really sucks. It especially sucks because the chemo is so toxic is ruins the vein at the injection point, so you while you can insert an IV it only lasts a day or two before they need to move it. I would have welcomed the patch that could just be moved every day or what not.

Re:Forget drawing blood... we're turning into puss

[Dr. Cody]

If it falls off in the pool, will it have to be closed?

It's out.

[IdahoEv]

Excellent. So when does Soma come out?

It's out. Soma is the US trade name for the muscle relaxant Carisoprodol. It's a particularly nice and powerful muscle relaxant/sedative. My mom and sister (both of whom have chronic back/neck and muscular pain) absolutely swear by it.

I personally think it took great chutzpah by the manufacturer to use that name. :)

Re:Forget drawing blood... we're turning into puss

[wcrowe]

I don't know if your post was meant to be funny or not, but the humor escapes me. I think a typical, insulin-dependent, diabetic would welcome such technology. I don't think one becomes a "pussy" just because one would rather not suffer through multiple injections on a daily basis.

Re:Forget drawing blood... we're turning into puss

[Anonymous Coward]

Chan, you must go back to it.

Deja Vu All over again!

[Hanging By A Thread]

Wow this thing has been duped right down to the modded interesting tattoo comment! http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/12/2244245

I am affraid you...

[das_magpie]

will need a tetanus shot son.

But its going to cost you $300.

Re:Forget drawing blood... we're turning into puss

[Ihlosi]

It especially sucks because the chemo is so toxic is ruins the vein at the injection point, so you while you can insert an IV it only lasts a day or two before they need to move it.

Um, did they also tell you what happens when they inject the chemicals into something other than a vein (i.e. they miss and inject them into muscle or other tissue) ? With some bad luck, you can kiss the limb goodbye in that case.

You definitely don't want chemotherapy drugs injected in any other way than through a needle in one of your veins.

That was exactly the point of my post:

[hummassa]

1. This device is supposedly Trekly-indolor, the one they used to vaccinate me hurt like hell.
2. Ergo, this device is not the same that they used in me in the 1970s.