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Analog Cellular Shutdown To Hit Built-In Devices
Nick Kilkenny sends us an AP article on the imminent shutdown of the US analog cellular network, now 24 years old. The network is scheduled to go dark on Feb. 18, 2008; some users, such as OnStar, are stopping analog service at the end of this year. Here's a list of devices and industries that will be affected by the shutdown. (Cellular telephony won't be affected much.) "The shutdown date has been known years in advance, but some industries appear to have a had a problem updating their technologies and informing their customers in advance... General Motors Corp., which owns OnStar, started modifying its cars after the 2002 decision by the Federal Communications Commission to let the network die, but some cars made as late as 2005 can't use digital networks for OnStar, nor can they be upgraded. For some cars made in the intervening years, GM provides digital upgrades for $15." Update: 12/22 22:25 GMT by KD : Replaced two registration-required links.
In case you lock your keys in the car or you need a tow?
is the one saving grace of analog, but in real life tests apparently the GSM technology still outperforms analog in terms of range, so even that one may not be holding... I think that analog is coming to an end in all communications fields, it will soon be the exclusive domain of HAM radio operators again.
MP3 Search Engine
Roadside assistance. Remote entry (in case you lock your keys inside). Directions (GPS locator). Automatic 911 activation in the event of an accident. Car diagnostics. There's more.
There's a number of things the service offers that would be very useful to the average user. *shrugs* But it's worth pointing out that the $15 digital upgrade is a discounted price... the actual price is about $300, but you get it for $15 if you purchase a 1-year subscription to the OnStar service, at a cost of $400.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Non-registration link for the Chicago Tribune article.
Crap. There goes the entertainment value of my scanner that can receive 800-900 MHz.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Have you ever locked your keys in your car? Got lost and tried calling someone, only to discover they don't know where you're at either or you can't through to anyone?
As others pointed out, you get lockout assistance without ever calling a tow truck and directions from a real, live person via GPS tracking.
Also, if you get your car stolen, OnStar automatically notifies the police.
OnStar can also be used as a hands-free cellphone service.
Think of it as a combination of every gadget you could ever want for your car with the simplicity of a single-button user interface.
My blog
Think of it as a combination of every gadget you could ever want for your car with the simplicity of a single-button user interface.
Gee, one could almost think of it as a four-wheeled Macintosh.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
The main reason I disapprove of this closure is the existence of 3 watt car phones to which there was NEVER any digital replacement. These are ideal for backwoods environments. Looks like there are boosters but still it's a bit of a hassle.
I also wonder what will happen to roadside call boxes. Were these AMPS?
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
It's an iCar
Brilliant user interface, hailed as the best car ever. Inexplicably it has only one door, no reverse gear and the hood is welded shut.
The list of affected services is on a registration required site.
Here is a link from Associated Press that does not need registration.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
And 6 months in advance.
And each month for the last 3 months.
2 weeks before shutdown one customer, an alarm company, threatened to sue us to keep it on the air because they hadn't had enough advance warning to get their customers' installations upgraded.
Apparently they didn't believe we would actually do it.
And, yes it is worth shutting it down. The power savings alone were significant. Rack space and floor space as well.
It also freed up a lot of spectrum for re-deployment for high speed data and other stuff that I'm not allowed to talk about yet.
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
Have you ever locked your keys in your car? Got lost and tried calling someone, only to discover they don't know where you're at either or you can't through to anyone?
Nope, never happened to me.
I used to lock myself out of my call all the time when I was younger. I only did it once or twice when I was 16, and then I started carrying a backup key in my wallet. Never again was locking my keys in the car a problem. It still happens about once a year, perhaps. I just get the backup key out of my wallet and I'm back in.
This (Onstar's unlocking service) is a prime example of a Rube Goldberg solution to a simple problem.
As others pointed out, you get lockout assistance without ever calling a tow truck and directions from a real, live person via GPS tracking.
Or you could just get a GPS navigation system, which is available (or standard) on most higher-end cars now, and doesn't carry a monthly fee. Besides, "real, live" people on the phone are usually not very competent in my experience.
Also, if you get your car stolen, OnStar automatically notifies the police.
OnStar isn't going to magically know your car is stolen; you have to report it yourself. I already have a cellphone to do that, as do most people.
OnStar can also be used as a hands-free cellphone service.
Or you could use a normal cellphone, which isn't tied to your car. Plus, people don't have to call a different number when you're sitting in your car. If it actually tied into your existing phone, it'd be pretty cool, but no one needs a separate cell service; I would think most people would like having only one phone number. Requiring a different number for different locations is so last-century.
Think of it as a combination of every gadget you could ever want for your car with the simplicity of a single-button user interface.
Think of it as a poorly-implemented waste of money.
There's always another thing of doing things, this takes about 5 contingencies and wraps them into one device. I could see an argument from the big brother angle, but violently resisting an easier way of doing something? I'm sure they could figure out a way to bluetoothify it so you can use your own cell phone for hands free operation. You could also forward your calls, if you so desired, I'm sure.
I hate sigs.
They could, but they haven't (AFAIK). I've definitely heard of other cars which do have built-in handsfree systems using Bluetooth to interoperate with your regular cellphone, and they don't charge a monthly fee.
Again, this OnStar thing is crap; it's giving you stuff you already have, at a monthly fee. I already pay enough monthly fees for things, and I pay much less than many others since I don't have cable TV, satellite TV, etc.
Most of the onstar features you never want to have to use, if that makes sense. But you'd probably be really glad you have them if you need them.
I hate sigs.
Try that with some of the new keys.
rewriting history since 2109
OnStar is with its merits, though not as major as they used to be. Between a decent GPS unit and a cellphone there's little need but they don't completely replace it.
The automatic 911 dialing can be a life saver. Sure, we all have cellphones but in an accident it's possible you'll be unconscious or otherwise too injured to get to your cellphone. Now as soon as the incident occurs you have someone asking if you're OK and able to send help to your coordinates.
The theft thing has its uses but is not that helpful if the thief knows what they're doing. It's easy to circumvent so pretty much any thief that knows what they're doing will not be caught. Unlike LoJak which hides the transmitter in different places in different cars I think all they need to do is disconnect the OnStar unit from the antenna.
The online diagnostics isn't too bad either. Once a month they check your sensors and stats and email them to you. Nothing major, but alright.
That's the one part of OnStar I'd actually be interested in using... but they don't appear to offer only that service. You have to pay an outrageous amount of money to get all the other "features" that come bundled with it.
(And, of course, I can't find any information as to whether the service is any actual good or not. How much of a collision can the OnStar device itself stand? The only information I can find in a quick google search is OnStar's advertising or "reviews" which look to be quickly re-written OnStar press releases...)
"Flag on the moon. How did it get there?"
I tend to agree with you. However, there is one feature that seems pretty neat. If they detect your airbag deploying and they are unable to contact you, then they automatically alert emergency services.
That's the one part of OnStar I'd actually be interested in using... but they don't appear to offer only that service. You have to pay an outrageous amount of money to get all the other "features" that come bundled with it.
I agree; that can be a useful feature. But it's disgusting that they wrap it up with all that other stuff, then charge a fortune for it.
Have you ever locked your keys in your car?
In the age of key-dongles, do people really lock themselves out anymore?
I used to lock myself out once a year or so, but not once since I bought a car with a remote entry dongle. For the same reason I don't lock myself out of my house. There's no way to lock the door without the keys, at least not the way I habitually lock the door.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
I used to lock myself out of my call all the time when I was younger. I only did it once or twice when I was 16, and then I started carrying a backup key in my wallet. Never again was locking my keys in the car a problem. It still happens about once a year, perhaps. I just get the backup key out of my wallet and I'm back in.
Here's hoping you never lose your wallet. Assuming your address is on your license, your pickpocket will have your address and a key to your car.
Have you ever locked your keys in your car?
Is that even *possible* on a modern car? On mine you need to use the zapper to lock it.. sure you can lock it from inside, but you have to open the door to get out...
I actually have a spare 'manual' key but have never used it. Even then I can't see a way of actually locking the door whilst the key is inside and I'm out.
Reasonable Person: "we have this indoor toilet, it's a convenient way to eliminate waste, but there are small water and sewer costs..."
Grishnakh: "why would I want to pay water and sewer fees associated with an indoor toilet when I can just use my outhouse?"
And regarding the key in the wallet move, most car keys nowadays have integrated fob-type plastic bulbs that do not work well on your wallet. Unless, that is, you keep your wallet in one of those manpurse fannypack fagbag things, which I suspect could be a possibility. But after reading your post, I think it more likely that you're probably just too cheap to buy a vehicle manufactured within the past 15 or 20 years and wouldn't have had to deal with the fob-type keys. So just go upstairs and look at your mom's keys, you'll see what the rest of us use.
Europe started off with a patchwork of different, incompatible, analog mobile phone networks that were replaced by a common digital standard (GSM.) The US started off with a single analog mobile phone standard, and then allowed operators to deploy whatever incompatible digital standards they choose. The result is that until the last few years, it was common to go into an area and find no operator running the digital standard your network used, with only AMPS available as a fall back.
So there was no real reason in Europe not to ditch the various analog networks as soon as GSM was deployed covering the same areas. Whereas, in the US, AMPS had to be kept around because there just wasn't any other standard that was truly national.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Yeah, paying for convenience, how ABSURD!
Some people have disposable income, and they like to spend it on things that give them less to worry about. Onstar is nothing more than another form of insurance. You dont want it? Don't buy it. But your contempt for people who do pay for the service is immature.
Yeah, but your toilet doesn't say "Holy crap, this guy just flushed a bunch of Cocaine! POLICE!!!"
+1 FUNNAY
Thanks for the laugh.
--Mike
Isn't a more pressing consequence of analog termination the effective discontinuation of rural mobile phone service? Travel into the boonies away from an interstate, particularly west of the Mississippi, and digital service rapidly disappears. The article only skirts this issue by saying that OnStar's service map still depicts the analog coverage area, which extends into more remote areas. This became quite clear to me on a trip last week to the Mojave desert and Death Valley. My friend's car decided to give up just as we reached a remote corner of Death Valley, some 75 miles away from the last town with digital cell service. I once had a Verizon digital+analog phone for these situations, but of course, retired it recently. Luckily, a ranger came by fairly soon and was able to place an analog cell call to get us towed. But now these remote areas are going to be left without service, and all we hear about is that poor OnStar users who mostly never leave the city might be inconvenienced? From now on, I guess the only options will be satellite phones at $10/minute, or CB radio, or yodelling.
Here we go again ladies and ladies. Strap on your aluminum boxers and hide in the basement. Mega-Corp is coming to get you again!!!
I'm so tired of hearing about all this ignorant spew about how evil all this technology is. So I'll just recap what's already been posted a hundred times about OnStar.
Despite all of these facts being repeated over and over I know that only 0.0001% of the aluminum boxer fan club will take any heed of this information. So kudo's to the one person who thinks.
Now, even though I work at GM/OnStar I should probably state that my opinions are statements are not necessarily a reflection of the opinions of GM/Onstar and as such GM/OnStar can not be held liable for anything I say, real or imagined, factual or fantasy.
So -- I can call you a jerk and get away with it. But I'm only going to call you a jerk after to slam me for working at GM/OnStar and that I'm obviously lying to keep the capitalistic pig corporations afloat despite all the evil things they do to babies and little furry animals. I only say this because I know someone will do just that in the next ten minutes. It happens every time.
Unfortunately, those who run around screaming such falsehoods do more damage for the cause of privacy and personal empowerment than they know -- for they appear as jerks and makes everyone else who says anything about privacy that much easier to dismiss.
"The U.S appears to be far behind Europe in this respect."
TFA says analog cellular in the US is going off the air in February, 2008. (Here in the US, I know Verizon, for one, has been decommissioning analog cell sites for years.) Sweden's is off the air in January, 2008, and Iceland's in 2009.
How does this put the US "far behind Europe"? The facts cited just don't seem to support the claim.
I thought the one year cost was $200. $400 must be something special. Are you sure?
Keypad entry. Best feature ever.
If I go to the beach or something I don't even carry my car keys with me, I just toss them under the seat and lock the car.
Normally I never lock my car anyway. I don't keep anything in my car, and you really can't reasonably steal a modern car with passive theft prevention, and vandalism just doesn't happen around here.
Well... It's $200 a year for OnStar. I pay $100 a month for my cell phone, $90 a month for cable TV, $15 a month for TiVO, $15 a month for NetFlix. The question of paying about the same price for OnStar is as relevant as people who choose to purchase these other services. Suit yourself?
As for the airbag calling issue -- There have been a few cases where the unit doesn't fare too well -- but that's generally an accident of such severe nature that fatality is usually result regardless. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but is fairly safe to say that the OnStar hardware is more likely to make a call than your cell phone, even if you are able to use it and find it. Things get tossed around a lot in an accident -- personal experience.
Actually, that fob is only on the OEM keys, and is only needed for starting the car (assuming it has an anti-theft chip in it). A cheap copy made at the hardware store works fine for the door, and is flat. Also, they make plastic credit-card shaped spare keys where the key folds out from the plastic card. Made for the wallet.
Take key out of ignition
open door and lock it out of habit.
Put down keys, pick up groceries in the back seat.
Shut doors.
Hey look. Keys are locked in the car.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
You can pry my Zach Morris out of my cold, dead hands.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
Well, if you are actually a customer then you might mention it to them. Otherwise I'm not sure that they'll here you.
Pick up brick.
Throw it at the window.
Problem solved.
Thats the point, with a key-dongle your habit should not be to lock the door by hand. Mine, at least, will not lock the door if the door is open, thus making it impossible to lock the keys in without doing the old-time manual lock plus close-door-with-handle-open, which is most definitely not my habit so I'd never do it to accidentally lock my keys in.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
Please note:
There's no way to lock the door without the keys, at least not the way I habitually lock the door.
His actions: Take key out of ignition
Open door, put down keys, pick up groceries in the back seat.
Close doors.
Go to lock car using fob, realize keys are in back seat.
Keys not locked in the car.
I don't read AC A human right
$400 in Canada, where I'm based.... and that could have changed... I stopped working for the GM dealer a month after they hired me. Sucked royally. Working at a computer vendor now.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Assuming a monthly service charge of 16.95$, over a 40 year driving period, if you saved that money at an 8% yearly yield compounded monthly, you would end up with $59,172.58
I'd be really glad to have that instead, and I could stand being locked out of my car or lost a couple of times to get it.
If the analog cell services are going off-line in Februrary, it's high time to dismantle the 800MHz band "cell-phone block" for scanning receivers. That was enacted only to create a minimal level of privacy for analog cell phone conversations. When all cell phones are using digital spread spectrum transmissions they all will benefit from spread spectrum's inherent encryption. Security is exactly what Hedy Lamarr had in mind when inventing spread spectrum.
The 800MHz block will soon be a useless relic, and should be repealed. US buyers should not be limited to buying crippled US-spec versions of receivers that are available in other countries.
Directions. Calling ahead for reservations. Booking hotel rooms. You have a personal assistant for a couple bucks a month.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
How about when you're in an accident and knocked out? The Air-Bags deploying alert the staff at OnStar who give your location to emergency response folks. It's more than locking your keys in your car. A LOT more.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Yes it is possible.
Leave the truck running, climb out, hit the power lock button on the door while you close it.
Or maybe it was just the door slamming shut that triggered the lock button.
But anyway, been there, done that. Probably took about an hour to get the spare key to get back into it.
Now when I get out of the truck with the engine running I hit the button to roll the window down.
This is in fact not a mandatory analog shutdown, but the date that cellular phone companies are ALLOWED to decomission analog. They're required to keep analog UP until this date, not shut it down at that date. The good word from AT&T is they are shutting analog down as soon as allowed. Verizon, I've heard both that they are shutting it down ASAP and that they aren't (I'm guessing it's up to each Verizon region to decide if they do or not?). I thought US Cellular had specifically said they plan to keep analog up in some areas until at least 2012. And, local providers, they may decide if it's not broke, don't fix it.
This doesn't negate the point of the article, since many places will lose analog. But, I'm guessing some of these ultra-rural desert and forest type situations, the local provider may keep analog up, at least for a while. Ultimately, though, there's no new equipment available, and indeed I've heard service parts are low too, so it'll have to go once it's unservicable.
>(...)
> I work at GM/OnStar
Most of your points are all well and good -- I'm not in OnStar's target market, but you addressed the tinfoilers pretty nicely. But... dude... seriously. There are some ideas that didn't need to be thought up. And that was one of them. And you just thought it. Worse, you posted it publicly to a website. Now, please, please, please swear to all of us that you'll never utter that phrase, even in jest, among your co-workers. Banner ads on an automotive heads-up display is an idea so infuriatingly intrusive, dumb, and annoying that you have a moral obligation to prevent the guys in marketing from ever hearing of it, because you know goddamn well what'll happen if they do.
I have yet to find a hardware store that can copy my keys... :-(
The down side of high security laser cut keys
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
The summary says that they will switch you for $15 if you own a car that was built after the FCC announcement.
For cars built prior to the FCC decision, it probably made sense to stick with analog for coverage and compatibility reasons. At the time of the FCC decision, I still had a phone from Sprint with analog roaming, and it would be in analog roam a surprising amount of the time.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Then don't get it. You can easily buy cars without OnStar. What's the problem?
/. about people that pay someone to change their oil.
Personally I wouldn't pay someone to change my oil, but plenty of people do. But, unlike you, I'm not sitting here starting a flamewar on
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
No. You've just replaced one problem with another, more expensive, problem.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
2009 is the digital TV cutoff date, not the digital phone cut off date which is still 2008.
That link refers to the upcoming analog tv shutdown, which occurs in 2009. The article is about the analog cellphone network shutdown, a completely separate topic.
Take a look at Sprint PCS coverage for Northern California. See those huge grey areas? That's "Analog Roam" territory. We're not talking about Nevada desert here, far from civilization. These are areas within fifteen miles of Silicon Valley.
open door and lock it out of habit.
Put down keys, pick up groceries in the back seat.
Shut doors. It's physically impossible to do that in my car. Guarantees no lock outs, but it drives me crazy.
Without the 2nd Amendment, the others are just suggestions.
You can lock it while the door is open, and then close it. I have done this. With the car running. On purpose. (it seemed like a good idea at the time - I was running the defroster and didn't want to get it stolen; except - the remote thingy won't open it while it's running)
We've secretly replaced Slashdot with new Folgers Crystals - let's see if it notices.
http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/onstar.htm now go get me my foil hat... over there... in your momma's basement :-)
--iggy_mon - www.ananonymouskiller.com - Die Trying -
I agree, AMPS is much more danceable.
You appear to have managed to find the only two countries operating analogue networks in Europe to cite there.
The Irish AMPS network went down in August 2001, the UK networks went off in December 2001. Most of central Europe went down at a similar time.
This may come as a shock, but not everyone agrees with you. I know it sounds crazy, but so many people disagree with you that GM has actually been able to successfully sell OnStar for over a decade now.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. But why waste everyone's time complaining about it.
Or maybe there's a GM exec reading /., and he's going to read your post and say "Wow! This guy is 100% right. I know we're making millions on this, but it really is just ridiculous. After the holidays we're just going to stop selling it."
Maybe not
Mostly they can't do that with the fob keys because most of them tend to be laser-cut high-security keys as well. And even when they're not, the hardware stores usually don't have the blanks.
Wal*Mart can copy the fob keys, but they use fob blanks -- still not good for the wallet.
My blog
what happens to the mobitex network? that's still analog, and it's used a lot in emergency and industrial. in the us, it's handled by velocita wireless, last time i checked. the network was sold to them from att/cingular.
Sig: Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
All other countries in Europe now have digital networks. In Iceland the long time it took to switchover to digital network was down to choosing a standard on the 450Mhz band, they did choose CDMA-450, I don't know why what the delay was in Sweden. They use Tetra on 380Mhz for emergency services (in Iceland where I live), that system was up and running more then two years ago.
Some annoyed person with mod points did mod me as troll, when it is obvious what I wasn't one.
Those old, cheap little portable TV sets - the ones with a CRT and a slide-rule analog tuning dial (like a radio) were great for monitoring people's cell phone conversations. They usually analon-tuned all the way up to the old UHF channel 83 - the frequencies for the high end of the UHF - TV were long ago reallocated to cell phones.
Ultimately, though, there's no new equipment available, and indeed I've heard service parts are low too, so it'll have to go once it's unservicable.
True enough but shutting down a lot of sites means a plethora of slightly used replacement parts sitting around...
So they might be able to keep some stuff going for quite a while.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
While that's fine for older cars, most newer ones (at least every car I've been in or seen made since 2002) have the same key for the doors, trunk, and ignition.
"We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
You can't eavesdrop on digital cellphones with a scanner, so bored Commun^WDemocrats will have to find something else with which to occupy their time.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
You were a good phone with all of your CTEK enabled goodness. I for one miss the days of A/B channel cellular in Los Angeles. It may have taken a while to actually get a call to go through but once you were connected, the call quality was rock solid. When the call dropped it dropped, but when it was connected, it was much more clear than the digital connections we have today.
... in real life tests apparently the GSM technology still outperforms analog in terms of range, ...
Range, maybe yes. Though lower power it's also less susceptable to interference. So perhaps the range from the tower to the phone is comparable, despite the factor of 6 power difference.
But coverage? Hell no!
To convert equivalent range to equivalent coverage you have to convert all the cell sites to digital. This has NOT happened.
Analog cell sites cover virtually all of the central 48 states. GSM and other digital services are concentrated in urban areas and the most heavily-settled routes between them. (Look up the coverage maps of the various carriers to see this.)
Post telecom-crash (and the resulting reorganizations and mergers) the telecoms have concentrated on the high-density markets of the cities and the major commute routes, ignoring the rural areas and lightly cross-country routes (exactly the places where you NEED your cellphone or OnStar to work if you get into trouble).
The digital networks had only been lightly deployed before the crash. After it the telecoms apparently treated the individual cell towers as profit centers. They upgraded those where the bandwidth crunch required it or the added channels could bring in added revenue. But the lightly-used cells in rural areas - which didn't have enough traffic to pay for themselves - were not upgraded.
This completely ignores the main point of cell phones: Maintaining communication when traveling or working away from the fixed infrastructure. Yes, the lightly-used cells don't have enough traffic to pay off directly - but by filling in the holes they increase the value of the subscription to the overall network. That's how they earn their keep.
The result is that there are large chunks of the nation where cellphone service will "go dark" when/if the analog cells are shut down.
(This happens to include my country house, by the way. It's in one of AT&T's "last cell"s on the periphery of their old AMPS/TDMA network and, though they've been charging extra to try to force me into changing to GSM, as of the last time I checked - which I do every couple months - they still hadn't upgraded it. My expectation is that the service there will just die when/if they pull the plug on AMPS/TDMA.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Just make a copy of it on a regular blank. Sure it wont start the car, but it WILL open the door, solving the "locked the keys in the car" problem.
Analog cell phones mayb the U.S should consider moving into the 21st century sometime.
~Dan
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
Do I claim that GM is spying on their customers? No, but I also think they could if they chose to. The question is, if they chose to, would they tell us?
I bought a Saab in 04 (?), GM had just added OnStar to the Saab line and was bundling the first year free. Saab's are built in Sweden, they do not have Onstar in Sweden. So they weren't really able to test it at the factory. IT WAS BUGGY AS HELL. The state I lived in had a lemon law which stated, that if a new car went into the shop 4 times for the same thing, it was by the state's definition "A Lemon". Well OnStar got my car labelled as a Lemon and GM had to buy it back. I got the next years model, went up a trim line and kept the same car payment. I think I used OnStar once. (In relation to this story) The primary reason that OnStar was flaking out, was b/c it was the first revision of units using the Digital Cell System vs Analog.
The problem is that there's a logical mismatch here. One of OnStar's advertised features is that police can use OnStar to track a stolen car. If a stolen car can be tracked, there can't be a technical barrier to tracking a car that isn't stolen.
If OnStar uses a cell phone network, it automatically identifies its approximate position all the time. That's how cell phones work, they constantly maintain registration with the nearest towers. Cell phones are the privacy worry here, not OnStar (except it's easier to turn cell phones off. But then it's also easy to make a smart phone app which pretends the phone is off.)
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Except the region you're declaring sparse is Open Space Preserve and State Parks.
QED. At least pick a REAL logical fallacy next time.
Where do you think I got it from?
Yeah, I've heard about this. But I never actually read the article. This guy reminds me of the Duck and Cover fifties of government FUD. Pretty sensational.
The notion that everyone is listening in on your vehicle is kind of a stretch there. I think OnStar is considerably more secure than Windows and that's not been an issue for most people.
I would love to hear from you just how you can act as if the phone is off and yet still receive a phone call?
When the phone moves between cell segments, it has to inform the cellular network what segment to send the page out on. Since you are going to act as if you are off, there is no communication about where you and hence you get no calls.
Either you have a pretty stupid phone app, a software off button, or something that even the cell companies aren't aware of.
With the weakening of the US dollar, you should be getting a considerable discount!!
and then sets off the alarm
rewriting history since 2109
use the retrieved regular key to deactivate the alarm.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
a software off button
That's exactly what you've got with most modern cellphones.
And from an end users' perspective, what's the noticeable difference between "turning off the phone" and "turning off the screen and setting the ringer to silent"?
Battery life
[The Universe] has gone offline.
It's always struck me as odd that there isn't GSM coverage on the western side of Mount Hamilton - there are actually people living there, it's in direct line of sight from the valley (and only a couple of miles away).
Since you are going to act as if you are off, there is no communication about where you and hence you get no calls.
You just turn off the display and stop reacting to the keyboard (except the power button). There is still communication with the cell towers, the app is just making the user believe the phone is off.
Either you have a pretty stupid phone app
Not stupid, malicious.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
A modern phone with the display, bluetooth, wifi etc. turned off has a battery life on the good side of a week. Very few users keep their phones off for that long.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Given that you can get emergency service from Iridium for about $50 USD / month, there's really no reason at all any plane that flies over rural areas should be without one. $50 per month is essentially nothing added to the monthly costs of maintaining a civil aircraft.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
Hey, I live in the Nevada desert!
Analog is only cell signal you can count on in this state. I'd always try to buy a cell phone with analog mode in case I ever wanted to drive anywhere that's not Reno or Vegas, but the selection has dwindled to nothing. And on a PDA phone? Forget it. Instead, I keep an old Nokia TDMA/AMPS phone in my car just in case since it'll still dial 911 and gets better range than any current phone.
this is my sig
Actually, most car keys since 2002 are chipped, and you can use this to your advantage. Get a copy of the key made on a regular blank. It won't start the car, but it will still open the doors.
It's not new at all. My 1988 model car would pop up the door lock knob whenever you shut the door, therefore unlocking the door if you had set the locks (it did this mechanically). Therefore, you couldn't lock yourself out because you needed the keys to lock the car. Didn't keep me from locking my keys in it once, as the trunk did not have the same protection.
Why is it dumb? The service life of a car is probably around 15 years or so, which is an eternity for cell phones. How can they anticipate where cell phones are headed 15 years in advance?
Thank you. For a minute there I couldn't believe that this guy was actually thinking when he turned off the ringer that he wasn't actively telling the towers his whereabouts. It's pretty amazing what people think they know ans what they actually do know.
There's a lot I don't know. But I'm more familiar with OnStar than all but a few on this website. And I'm very familiar with just what is going to be happening between now and February 18, 2008. I also know that there are a lot of people trying to sue GM for building a cellular technology into their vehicle at a time when GM had no knowledge that said technology was going to be depricated.
I can't wait to see the law suits the come up when we run out of gasoline and all those cars, boats, lawn mowers suffer a resale value decline because the planet ran out of viable fossil fuel. I suppose that will be GM's fault as well. As for me, I'm driving diesel and getting bio-diesel when I can find it.
Well, lots of people also have poor taste, which is evidenced by all the people who buy GM's butt-ugly cars. Honestly, except for the Corvette, GM has no idea how to make a tastefully-styled or even attractive car. Of course, GM hasn't been doing very well financially over the past few years, so it's catching up with them, while Toyota, which makes kinda bland, but very tasteful and high-quality cars, is doing extremely well financially. The only thing that's kept GM afloat this long has been their SUVs and trucks, because their car business has been horrible. Coincidence? I think not.
GM is a dying dinosaur of a company, and that's not just my opinion.
I miss it, kind of, nice in car, actually a long reach with a long antenna, but portables were heavy! see : NMT ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Mobile_Telephone ). But much earlier than people think, started the problems, instead going home drive to the next customer!
I was amazed that there even WAS an analog network still running in usa. and even more that someone had manufactured and sold cars utilizing one in 2005!
nmt around here had very large cells(back when it was online, more than a decade ago?), but that was afaik more due to the freq being 450mhz than to anything else.
your telcos just suck, even more than ours(for not having coverage). population density and such are no excuses really, since pretty much all of this not that tightly habitated country is gsm covered, even lapland(in places where you might need to drive 100km to buy vodka).
and well, the analog network going dark is forcing them to either convert them to digital or start losing the business.
(they're now rolling out "wireless broadband" on that 450mhz.. but with pricing/transfer limits that make the system pointless in most uses compared to umts or edge-gprs - but the cells are rather large so good for covering large areas)
-written over 3g
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
It's insane that existing OnStar installs cant be upgraded from analog to digital. all they need to do is swap out the transmitter box! Cripes if delco is so incompetent as to make the onstar boxes incompatible with the connections to the rest of the car then they must hire and employ the stupidest engineers (or more probable, the stupidest managers) on the planet.
Upgrading an older OEM onstar install should be as simple as pulling the panel, unplugging the Onstar box and replacing it with a digital one. Hell the factory alarm in my suzuki Sidekick sport from 97 was upgradeable 2 years ago to GSM by simply replacing the transmitter box. and that is from a rinky-dink tiny japanese car maker not some big sophisticated American car company.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
So are you denying that OnStar has the ability to listen in to car conversations without the occupant's knowledge? Why did they build that feature into the system?
Notmysig
You missed several points.
It's not Delco.
the transmitter isn't a box, it's a chipset that is hardwired (soldered) to the motherboard. Hardly something they can swap out
The wiring harness to the vehicles have changed in the last 7-10 years, so there are fundamental incompatabiities with the hardware. Similar to trying to plug a EIDE hard drive into a SCSI bay. You are assuming that they haven't made any modifications to the wiring harness in all that time.
On the contrary, I believe the wiring harness will be the fastest changing, non-visual, part of vehicles for the next 20 years. What they say and whom they say it to will grow exponentially as vehicles start to come of age in the electronics and telecommunications age.