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ISP Block on Pirate Bay Not Having Desired Effect
TechDirt is reporting that the recent block placed on The Pirate Bay torrent site is not only relatively ineffective, but actually driving more traffic to the site because of the attention. "The news from The Pirate Bay appears to confirm this suspicion. According to The Pirate Bay's new Court Blog, Danish traffic has not dropped since the implementation of the block. '...the number of visits from Denmark has increased by 12% thanks to IFPI,' the blog post reads. 'Our site http://thejesperbay.org is growing more because of the media attention than people actually coming to learn how to bypass the filter - our guess is that alot of the users on the site now run OpenDNS instead of the censoring DNS at Tele2.dk.' 'We also started tracking some stats before and after the block. There's no noticeable difference between the number of users from Tele2.dk before and after.'"
"The Net treats censorship as damage and routes around it."
-- John Gilmore
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
...what everyone thought, I suppose. I'm wondering: did any of the legislators consult a single tech guy? I don't agree with filtering, but this is just embarrassing.
Why is anyone still using the DNS info provided by their ISP? I have been happy with OpenDNS for quite a while now. A lot of people may not think about what DNS server they're using untill something like this happens. My old ISP (Cox) is what made me use OpenDNS. They started blocking access to some certain questionable sites (relating to cracking programs.) They had good reason to though because the site was full of popups which always make my anti-virus go crazy. But since I use Opera I didn't see any of them unless I wanted to.
We're seeing your effect and we're kind of glad. It's like the shinny red button that says "DO NOT PRESS!" people want to press it more now, than ever.
Also, bittorrent is the only thing I know to get better with the Streisand and Slashdot effects...
Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
I hate it when non tech people underestimate us... hokay, time to teach them a lesson... oh wait, Piratebay is already doing that...
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
http://www.torrentcentral.net/news/The%2BPirate%2BBay%2Band%2BFilesharers%2BBacked%2Bby%2BSwedish%2BPoliticians But I guess isp played some part on this, enabling such an easy way around it :) Even banning their ip's would have had more effect.
publicity over the shutdown of something called demonoid led me to discover the wonders of .cbr files
non-english speaking cultural output is a lot smaller than english language output. not only because its large, but english language output tends to penetrate non-english speaking countries, not the other way around
therefore, when say, germans abandon the financial support for german cultural output, this should have a more devastating effect on financing german cultural output than when english language fans pirate music or movies
and since piracy is hugely prevalent in europe, i wonder what the epxerience has been for danish movie, czech music, etc.
incidentally, i think that the financial support for all culture via traditional means SHOULD collapse. it isn't viable anymore with the internet. new channels of financial support will emerge (concerts, advertising, etc.), but i think they will be permanently reduced funds. not that this is a big problem:
1. no more need for a middle man who presses lps and cds and tapes
2. the cost of production, sutdios, cameras, etc.: shrinking dramatically every day in the digital era. to make an album nowadays, all you need is a laptop
3. people are motivated to do art for the sake of art. if you were guaranteed to make $0 from making a song or a movie, people would still make songs and movies. it's called love of art, not love of money. money is an artificial injection into the creation of art
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
That is absolutely true but most folks in government (worldwide) don't seem to get that. It's as if the people who typically go after Internet issues haven't spent much time using it outside of checking the weather and ordering condoms (size extra small) from Amazon.
http://www.busyweather.com/
Anakata from The Pirate Bay also talked on tv about commenting their a few years ago bust and working style of anti-piracy companies.
Seriously, does no one advise upper management that trying to block something on the internet just draws *more* attention to it? Happens over and over.
The meme is dead, long live the meme!
In other news, RIAA and MPAA lawsuits have still not stopped illegal downloading. Stayed tuned for more from the Blatantly Obvious News Network!
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Those crafty TeleDK network admins were incompetent "accidentally on purpose" so people wouldn't find it too difficult to get round the block....
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Maybe IT needs an "IT Board" the way doctors have a "Medical Board". Instead of letting brain-dead politicians make decisions about things they do not (and probably can never) understand, we need to do intelligent self-governance.
Think about it. Is being subject to the cyberspace rules of politicians who know nothing about IT any different than being subject to the meatspace rules of politicians from some island half-way around the other side of the Earth?
Maybe it's time for another revolution?
A furore Normanorum libera nos, O Domine! [From the fury of the norsemen deliver us, O Lord!] -- Medieval prayer
:)
I always thought those were random
For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
I certainly must have missed something. They are only doing a DNS level "block" of Pirate Bay? No shutting down of specific IP addresses that go to servers or at least some attempt at firewall (ie, Great Wall of China variant) filtering ?!?!?
./'ers can say they are doing something different - or I am going to spend alot of time chuckling over the brandy tonight....
I really hope some other
This is only logical, while english is a very common language and a great many people speak it as their second, third language, it is not the most common language.
In europe, most tv-stations, even the commercial ones are man-dated by law to provide a certain amount of "native" broadcasting. That is why the station RTL4 which was clearly aimed at dutch audience spend money on a luxemburg program block in the early hours to satisfy the law (they were based there using a loophole).
Childerens tv in holland has had a strong EU only feel to it in my youth, simply because US programs did not meet EU regs against advertising to childeren.
As for how it is affected, it is not even clear yet how copyright infringement affects hollywood, how it affects local cinema in the rest of the world is anyones guess. We certainly are not going to get the truth about it from the media, they after all have a rather direct intrest in the matter.
So far however it seems to matter little, Remember non-hollywood movies tend not to pay quit as much to their stars. This matters a lot, to pay those idiotic salaries a Tom Hanks gets you need to make massive profits. Pay them a more modest wage and you have a lot more room.
Also what you claim about english content being more easily accepted in the rest of the world helps. I can far more easily find a seeded torrent of a US show then say a belgium program even if said program in the country itself is more popular.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/ .... oh jeez, they've figured out a way to get around our bullet-proof DNS filtering scheme guys!
did any of the legislators consult a single tech guy?
Of course they did, because married tech guys are just too hard to find.
The tele2 tech guys I know are quite competent. It is just that it is not in their, not in their employers, interest to implement an effective filter. So they do the absolutely minimal amount of work they have to do, in order to comply with this "small claims" court order.
What is one of the things you've learned as a programmer?
There is always more than one solutions for a given problem?
QED, I would say.
Privacy is terrorism.
...even if a far-fetched one. Say this trend continues...illegal downloading of music, movies, books, games, etc. There will ALWAYS be people that will buy their media, or at least some of it. What happens when the number of people stealing outnumbers those buying to the point where these corps are actually losing money? I don't just mean their sales have gone down, I mean to the point where they are in the red, no longer making any profit.
I think what will happen is already happening. People are figuring out that hey, for only a few thousand dollars, I can BUY the equipment to make my own music or movie, and release it independently.
Consider this. I invest $15,000 in some very respectable music equipment. I write all the songs, perform all the instruments, record it all, and master the mix. I then put up a website on a domain that costs me 10 bucks to register and only 15 bucks to host. I sell the music in multiple no-DRM formats on my website. In addition, I upload it onto various torrent sites, and include in the file a readme with a link to my website asking that people buy it. I upload a link to the site on Digg, Stumbleupon, Reddit, etc. I post the link in forums, in newsgroups. I submit my stuff to internet radio stations, post it on MySpace/Facebook...I even spend a little bit more money to get some advertising on various gaming and independent music websites. Let's assume that with all of this, my costs are now sitting right around $20,000 for total amount invested (not including time, of course.)
Assuming that my work is good and that people like it, I have the potential to make more money than I would with a record deal. Not only that, but I would OWN the equipment that I had made the album with, which I could then either sell, or I could keep and record another album thus making more money (especially since it would be a one time investment)
I'm not saying it would be easy, but the potential to earn far more than I invest is definitely there. By putting the album up on torrent sites and such with a link to my website, I am building an empire. I am getting free advertising. I am getting word of mouth. I am getting EXPOSURE, and it's not really costing me much of anything.
THIS is what will eventually be the downfall of the music industry (the movie industry not so much...equipment has definitely come a long way, but it's still very expensive compared to producing an album). The music industry won't be driven out of business by people downloading their crap for free...it will be little old me with full creative and distributive control over MY creation. It will be people KNOWING they can download my album because they don't have to worry about any lawyers running after them. It will be people SUPPORTING an artist like me, because I am doing the same thing they are: looking for new musicians who are doing it all on their own.
(Note: I am not actually doing this...I can barely play the nose whistle, much less any other instrument)
Living With a Nerd
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"
What kind of Techs run that ISP? Have they never watched Star Wars?
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
An article in a mainstream Danish newspaper says that the case is going to court, other ISP's are actually chipping in to fund Tele2's suit against the imposed restriction.
"You must be an american. The number of movies produced in the rest of the world is GREATER then the number of movies produced in the US, or even if you start calling every country that has english as a main language being clubbed together (wonder how the french part of canada feels about it)."
...
well duh. bollywood makes far more movies than hollywood. but bollywood movies don't spread out from india very much, except in indian expat communities, because outside of india, hindi or other indian languages are used very rarely. but outside of anglophone countries, you still find a lot of people who understand some english
you mention how french canada feels about this. what do you mean how they feel about it? i'm talking how much the movie's cultural influence is. what, french canadians go see a jason bourne movie and then go home and take a shower and vomit in disgust because they saw an english language movie? your attitude is bizarre. either they watch it, or they don't. that's all that matters. they vote with their feet, not with the attitude in their mouths. if they are in the theatre, watching the movie, they are influenced. done deal. if they watch the movie, the deed of cultural influence is done. if they dislike warmongering american neoconservative imperialism, or whatever, who cares? it doesn't change the outcome of going to the movies and being influenced
"This is only logical, while english is a very common language and a great many people speak it as their second, third language, it is not the most common language."
you don't seem to grasp logic. if everyone has language X as a second language, movies on language X will penetrate more people's consciousness than movies in language y. therefore, cultural output in language X will come to dominate. your observation about english supports my opinion, and destroys your conclusion, which isn't logical at all
"In europe, most tv-stations, even the commercial ones are man-dated by law to provide a certain amount of "native" broadcasting. That is why the station RTL4 which was clearly aimed at dutch audience spend money on a luxemburg program block in the early hours to satisfy the law (they were based there using a loophole)."
yes, this is called cultural protectionism. cultural protectionism is unnecessary in a healthy culture that isn't being eroded or feels threatened by another culture. a law requiring a certain amount of cultural output is enacted and enforced because one culture is afraid of being dominated and flooded out by another culture. which gets back to my original question about piracy threatening german, or czech, or danish culture: destroying the financial means to create a culture which feels threatened, would seem to be more damaging to a culture already feeling vulnerable. that's my original question. do you have an answer for it? the rest of your words seem to dance around unrelated subject matter. i think you think you are informing me about very obvious things, things which i already know. it's patronizing and strange
"As for how it is affected, it is not even clear yet how copyright infringement affects hollywood, how it affects local cinema in the rest of the world is anyones guess."
ah! an answer: you don't know
"We certainly are not going to get the truth about it from the media, they after all have a rather direct intrest in the matter."
huh? i asked you. i'm not the media, you're not the media
"So far however it seems to matter little, Remember non-hollywood movies tend not to pay quit as much to their stars. This matters a lot, to pay those idiotic salaries a Tom Hanks gets you need to make massive profits. Pay them a more modest wage and you have a lot more room."
ah! good answer, great answer, and one i agree with: people will always make movies in danish, or german, or czech, because they are proud of being danish, or german, or czech. well done
"Also what you claim about english content being more easily accepted in the res
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Music is also heavily subsidized, although indirectly, through a "blank media tax". The media tax is distributed to commercial artists based on how much they sell, so that is affected by unauthorized copying. It is also totally unfair, as people creating free music (or Linux distributions) get no part of the media tax. Unlike books, movie, and TV, this tax does not seem intended to preserve Danish language and culture, rather to enrich (mostly foreign) distribution companies. It is insane, I have no idea how they got that system established.
I wish they would replace it with something similar to the system they use for books: only Danish language books are subsidized, the money goes directly to the authors (not the publishers), and the amount is propertional how popular the book is on the public libraries, not to its price.
I suspect the situation is different for Czech music, but their situation is also different in general. They were part of a communist country not that long ago, the country is relatively poor (but rich compared with other post-communist areas), and their president (Vaclav Klaus) is a Libertarian, or as close as you get in Europe, and thus likely opposed to any kind of subsidizes.
-- John Gilmore "But what if censorship is in the router?"
-- Seth Finkelstein
Don't insult Stallman like that. A whore I know jumped my shit when I referred to myself as a "computer nerd". Are you by chance a five foot seven inch tall seventy five pound woman with a big head and a flatter chest than most men?
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
i take it to mean that cultural protectionism is cultural protectionism is cultural protectionism. it exists, and the current changing of economic models of media distribution due to the internet doesn't change the concept or threaten the need or desire for cultural protectionism. because a nation's governmental cultural support and incentives lie outside of normal free markets anyways, and so feels no negative effects due to piracy
although it may change its implementation someday
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
This is the crux of it. Someone who actually gets it.
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
in the state of denmark ;-)
;-)
and please be exporting more connie nielsens and more viggo mortensens, thanks
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I don't remember CD drives like that at all.
QED?
Sell SACD quality tracks, whether it's via download or a physical format. For your average Joe Downloader, it's VERY inconvenient to file-share something of that size. You can always allow the cheapskates to have their mp3s for free (or even sell at a nominal rate), but the real fans will buy the full quality stuff.
The vast majority of people on the net probably have little knowledge of how to bypass the block, and would be helpless to do anything. It may be correct.
The component they seem to miss is the resolve of those people that know how to do it to not only adapt their system to access anything they want, but to then make the fix for it easily accessible to the masses. They are willing to write scripts, make interfaces, patches, websites, directions, etc so that anyone can do it.
Thats the component they miss, and it is not a technical lack of understanding, but a cultural one.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Looking at the TPB top 100 movies / TV shows, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of pirated content is European. Certainly, there is non-US content, but it's a small share.
Ooops! "that the vast majority of pirated content is American".
PS.
GET AN EDIT FEATURE SLASHDOT! THIS IS 2008!
That is all.
DS.
I think most freedom loving people love and appreciate all the Dutch have done to promote freedom of expression that is common and encouraged in the Netherlands, but we're all at a loss as to why the Dutch have mandated that young people going on dates each have to pay for their own meal.
What's more outrageous is that the legislators seem to think this is some sort of "treat".
Talk about your GW Bush double speak!
As the Patriot Act making me jump through hoops to buy Claritin-D is going to stop meth cookers.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
Europe is to blame for these types of shows, buddy. The first "Idol" show started in the UK. Unfortunately, the US advertisors/stations saw how much money the show was making and, BAM! faster than Paula Abdul can go back into rehab, American Idol was born. I want to waterboard everyone involved with "Reality" tv. I bet they don't let their own kids watch that crap.
Love,
eviljonny
This is what the end result of the entire napster debacle. If the RIAA had just ignored napster it would have remained in the 'shadows' and the entire music scene ( and the whole idea of IP rights for media ) would be different today.
But nooo they had to call attention to things. You would think people would learn from others mistakes.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Tele2 is my isp, and I have no problems connecting to http://thepiratebay.org/ using their dns.
Not yet, anyway
I have Comcast cable internet at home thanks to my work... For years I have had issues connecting to sites that are related to my work... Unable to find or very slow response time. When the Pirate Bay went down i switched to OpenDNS... Suddenly I found many sites, not just the Pirate Bay, that I had trouble connecting to before suddenly opening up without any problems and 10 times faster... Censorship by ISP's it the wrong way to go about it. Censoring DNS servers should be outright criminal...
no text
Why did they go with DNS filtering ? Of all the ineffective ways to censor stuff on the net, that has to be the weakest! Even nullrouting TPB's ip range would have been at least slightly more potent.
;)
I run my own caching DNS server at home, so I wouldn't even notice a thing. At least a nullroute would require me to add a few hostnames to my proxy
Much like everything else in life, if someone wants it badly enough, they will find a way to defeat whatever security is in place, whether it's a bike lock or a bank vault. On the net, the locks are a million times easier to pick and the risks of getting caught are a million times less. It's just plain wasteful to even try to censor content unless you control the whole enchilada, like China, and even they can't keep it completely sealed.
-Billco, Fnarg.com