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The Starbucks/AT&T Deal To Change Perception of Public Wi-Fi?
ericatcw writes "According to ComputerWorld, with two hours of free Wi-Fi soon to arrive at Starbucks consumers should expect more hotspots to go free as well as more attractive bundles from the likes of AT&T, Verizon and providers. While T-Mobile is hurting, indie coffeehouses and chains such as Caribou Coffee, Tully's and others that already offered free Wi-Fi, insist they are not, saying their ambiance and superior brew will help them retain customers."
...it would seem that access to said information also wants to be free.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
That ubiquitous, free (if slow) wifi is going to be the way of the future?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Wifi in European Starbucks has been free for a long time now. Buy a coffee, get a free wifi scratchcard. When credit runs out, go back to counter and get another one.....
Tullys is just another franchise. That isn't an independent coffee house at all. This is a great independent coffee house: http://www.theblackdrop.com/
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Aside from airports* and some hotels, wireless is free everywhere that has it. (And what are you going to do, use another airport?)
Seemingly everywhere now has free wireless: coffee shops, my car dealership, bars, etc. Why on earth would I go to Starbucks and pay $2 for a coffee (not a double soy quad shot latte, a COFFEE) and then pay an extra $10 for a wireless connection?
That deal was doomed from the start and in today's climate is just silly. The new one is quite realistic.
* Fort Lauderdale and Jacksonville, I believe, have free wireless at the airport. Nice of them!
WiFi in Oz is charged at exorbitant rates ($15/hr). Starbucks has got Telstra to put in the WiFi infrastructure. Telstra is the incumbant ex-public telco.
In Melbourne where I live I can name one free WiFi _location_ which is a food court.
With the advent of HSDPA/3G (Telstra call it NextG), I can see WiFi NEVER taking off. (Why be limited to 50m radius of a hotspot when you cal roam all throughout the capital city)?
Crispi
Uh, wasn't there an article posted just the other day full of people bitching about how the new wifi service @ Starbucks is not going to be free?
Panera Bread has had free wifi for years. You can use this page to find one near you. They typically don't hassle you even if you are camped out and not buying much.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach him to eat and he will fish forever.
just announced today that starbucks here in KY is closing some of their shops. they are closing 100 stores across the country because they opened too many of them (and the economy stinks).
nature loves variety::society hates it get your variety at http://www.monkeypantz.net
What I want to know, is: will the agreement between T-Mobile and AT&T allow the T-Mobile Hotspot@Home WiFi phone service to work?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Somebody call a whaaaaaambulance. For God's sake, the only reason T-Mobile's service had any operating costs was because they were trying to charge customers money. When you give away wi-fi for free, as most places are doing now - and not just coffee houses - it costs virtually nothing. What, $400 for a cheap PC and wireless router that any 15 year old employee knows how to run backwards and forwards?
A-Bomb
... we charge you outrageous prices for the WiFi and give you free coffee.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
A profit motive is generally a good way to start the ball rolling. It paid for the initial setup of infrastructure too.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Now I may actually have a reason to care about Starbucks. I'm on AT&T DSL (it's slow, but the cable company here has not-too-liberal bandwidth caps/exorbitant over-your-limit fees, plus I don't want cable TV). The fact that DSL also gets me local dial-in numbers in quite a few places and occasional WiFi (typically McDonald's and Barnes&Noble) have been real nice additions. Adding Starbucks to the list helps even more.
Of course, the bad for them is that getting more ubiquitious WiFi means I'm less inclined to buy a cellphone with data. (I'm a $100 a year pre-paid guy myself).
Hey... that'd be a real neat trick. Could they get WiFi enabled ATTWireless phones (iPhones among others) to automatically register (no login) to these access points and push data that way whenever possible? Damn good idea.
Damn you AT&T. I want to hate you, but you're so damn convenient.
Fellow Minneapolis chain Dunn Brothers offers free Wi-Fi with *no strings attached* at its 90 locations.
Caribou is 2nd (one hour free).
First AT&T makes major deals with Apple, now with Starbucks? What's next - NPR, Prius and The Daily Show?
ps: joke.
http://www.coderoshi.com/
"Up to two hours of free Wi-Fi service per day will be available for Starbucks Card holders"
If I understand this correctly, if you go get yourself a card, fill it up with a minimal $5, you pretty much can get 2 hours of free wireless anytime?
Sounds like a good deal, most of the time you really only need to check your mail or "look something up" quickly anyway... and with Starbucks being pretty much everywhere, this seems like a nice convenience. Great for people like me with an iPod Touch.
Now many McDonalds, Krystals, Atlanta Bread Companys, Burger King, Denny's, Dunkin' Donuts, IHOP, Jack-in-the-Box, KFC, Subway, Taco Bell, Quiznos, and Wendy's offer free WIFI.
'Bucks will start losing customers who want to surf and schmooze. I'm sure they especially don't want to lose that extra $6 cupcake sale when someone has been hanging around the store for an hour and starts to get hungry.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
It's one month since I installed a Fonera router (http://www.fon.com/) in a pub. People does not connect. They just don't go to the place for WiFi. Most people have internet access at work and at home, accessing the internet even when relaxing in front of a coffee is actually nonsense.... well... hmmmm.... I shoulnd't be posting this on slashdot, right?
I see bars offering free WiFi to attract fantasy sports nuts, WiFi is becoming more and mainstream every day...soon everybody will be expected to offer it as service to their customers. That's the real news...WiFi has gone mainstream to the point that charging for it will cause people to choose one establishment over another...
In Soviet Russia, WiFi charges coffee for you!
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And if anyone tries to charge, they should be hacked, or their establishment burnt to the ground.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Bauhaus has thrived despite all of the Starbucks shops that have popped up around it: 15 within half a mile, and 38 within one mile.
So that's 38 Starbucks in one square mile? That's what it sounds like.
I have yet to go to a coffee shop or pub without free and unlimited WiFi access (keep in mind I never go to starbucks). Either they drop the $50 or so to get an access point or ask the Personal Telco Project (http://www.personaltelco.net/) to hook them up at no cost. And then there's the MetroFi free network (http://www.metrofi.com/) if you're really desperate. I'm sure there's ways you could spend money for WiFi access but I can't imagine why anyone would.
How's that corporate free life treating you?
I see you finally finished building your computer. Which was more time consuming, smelting the metals, building the components or writing/adapting the software?
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Even people who are stuck with craptastic telcos in the US thank the heavens they're not stuck in Oz with Telstra.
I've often wondered about the wisdom of charging for WiFi at Starbucks.
When you buy a coffee, the sugar is free. The creamer is free. The newspapers people bought earlier in the day and then left in the "already read" newspaper bin are free. The bathrooms are free. The lights are free. The heating/cooling is free. The electrical sockets (when available) are free.
WiFi should be just like these - free. It's just another element of the building these days.
Charging for Wifi creates a viscous circle: you need to pay for tech support people because of users having trouble accessing their accounts, but users only need accounts in order to pay for the tech support people. When Wifi is free, you don't need accounts, and you therefore don't need a huge support infrastructure, so you don't need to charge anything.
But what about the DSL line and electricity, you ask? Well, all I can say is that you aren't paying extra for the electricity that powers the lights, or the water that make the toilets flush, and there aren't slots for nickels and dimes by the sugar and creamer. Those costs are baked into the prices of your coffee. Wifi shouldn't be any different.
So it's about freaking time, says I.
Nah, I don't really agree. At one time, I would have sided with you on this one. But at least from what I've observed, coffee shops have evolved in recent years to become much more like restaurants. The idea of a coffee shop being a social hang-out is dying off. (Just like restaurants, they also figured out people are only going to drink so much coffee during a visit.) When you encourage people to hang around playing board or card games, reading books, etc. - you wind up with a place that's half full of people who are done buying things, instead of freeing the space up for the next round of customers-to-be, who are all ready to buy that first cup of joe when they walk in.
On the other hand, what I think *is* happening that encourages free wi-fi is a restaurant (or coffee shop) design with a variation of the traditional restaurant theme. Places like Panera Bread Company are good examples. They give just enough of a "personal touch" (things like calling your first name when your food/drink order is up, instead of giving you a number) to make people feel welcome there. They encourage the feel of "We give you more reasons to come here than the competitors do!" with bonuses like free wi-fi and wall outlets conveniently placed at the booths. Yet they still lay everything out so you feel a little "uncomfortable" if you spend TOO much time there. You have that distinct sense that you're taking up space that other customers want, and they're taking notice of you. They carefully avoid things like placing too many couches around their restaurants, since those encourage the concept of sitting around longer. They don't provide any reading material or other visual cues that it's "ok" to spend the rest of the afternoon there. Yet, you do feel like it's "the norm" to go ahead and pull out your laptop and check your email while you're eating your sandwich. THIS is the balance that makes it all fit together.
...is actually not doing well and is rumored to be shopping for a buyer.
It's probably not due to WiFi, in all fairness, but to say they're not hurting isn't true either.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
My local public library offers public WiFi. Anyone can just walk in and use it.
"Man this internet's something else"
[Verse]
Cuttin' it close, Let the dishes turn green,
Everyone chasin' their Internet dream,
Some like it hot, In a triple X funk,
Winnin' the auction, Turnin' money to junk,
Cappin' the flag in a virtual dash,
Skippin' your wedding to play in a match,
[Chorus]
Shut all the blinds
You mighta been seen
Sittin' alone
With your internet dream
Winning the race
For your digital fix
Living your life
With a clickity-click
(Repeat)
"So every day I swear I'm gonna go to bed at like eleven.
And all of a sudden its 4AM . . .
And I was just watching Youtube and reading Wikipedia for five hours.
It's like MAN . . . you ask me the next day. I can't even remember
what I was doin. Crazy."
[Verse ]
[Chorus]
"I was talkin to my mom the other day
And she's like 'Oh,
My computer's been acting up again!'
So I'm thinkin she got a virus
or something . . .
And I'm like 'ok what's wrong?'
And she's like 'You know that bar that
you type the website in! It disappeared!
I can never remember how to get it back!'
I'm like 'ok Mom. We did this last week.'
I love my Mom and Dad. "
[Chorus X 2]
FREE MP3! Right-click and SAVE!*
*All rights reserved.
I live in the Seattle area, and I work from Tully's pretty regularly because it's free. The coffee is good too. But they're not absolutely *everywhere*. Starbucks is, and so it's the de-facto meeting place to do business. If you're meeting a client, partner, friend, study-mate or whatever in this town the standard is, "I'll meet you at the Starbucks at X-o'clock." Then it's usually, "Which one, there are 3 in that neighborhood." They're ubiquitous, and it's a nice atmosphere to be in for an hour or so. And you can have a treat. Imagine saying, "I want to pitch this idea to you, I'll meet you at the McDonalds." Yeah right.
Starbucks is doing well enough without laptop campers, but offering semi-free access must mean that at least part of their business is being taken by the shops with free WiFi. Believe me they don't make a move without studying the numbers.
They would probably make a lot more money if they stopped putting your money that is going towards water and electricity into the coffee.... I also imagine the coffee wouldn't be that great either
My UID is prime... is yours?
Starbucks' hook is the same as McDonalds'. It has worldwide recognition (at least to americans). People, at least americans, overwhelmingly tend to go to familiar places.
Business travelers have no issue with paying $2.10 for a venti coffee, or $9.99 for a couple of minutes of wifi so they can check email.
They pay what whatever amount and submit the receipt to their company.
In other words, pi are square, but that's still better than 10 Starbucks per square mile.
And I thought the Onion article about the Starbucks in the restroom of another Starbucks was a joke.
Overpriced, burnt coffee AND two whole HOURS of free shitty Wi-Fi! How can we lose? Do they offer an extended warranty to go with it?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I'm not so up on how it is in other places, but in Austin, basically every place has free wi-fi. The bars, the restaurants, everywhere. Except for Starbucks, before now. It being Austin, I knew this probably wasn't standard everywhere else, but I'm surprised to hear that it's that far off. I am 100% used to going to basically any place I want, including a dive bar, and being able to pull out my laptop and dick around on the internet. (Though that only lasts a few minutes until the beer starts.)
So, you get a bunch of cheapskates sitting around your tables using the free Wi-Fi without having to buy anything, while your paying customers may have trouble finding a seat. If I'm a business owner, I like this why?
I recently turned around and found another place to have lunch when there were no seats at a cafe with Free Wi-Fi near my office. At least half of the table-occupants didn't seem to have purchased anything, or had finished consuming it some time before.
Now at Starbucks, Free wireless internet with the neighbours password...
Offering free wi-fi will most likely attract those customers who would ordinarily chose another establishment that already offers free wi-fi. I work at Caribou Coffee, where we already offer one free hour of wi-fi. If you need more time, you have to make a purchase (anything over $1.50) and you'll get a passcode for another hour. I've heard so many people complain about S'bucks and how they "rip you off" by charging you for wi-fi. I'm sure that we will lose some business when S'bucks goes with the free wi-fi, but they will inherit our problems along with our customers.
It's not uncommon for our the seating in our store to fill completely up with people sitting at their laptops clickity-clacking away. People will buy a cup of regular coffee (~$2.00) and camp out for, I kid you not, 8 hours! These same people will demand a new card every hour as if they are entitled to it because they "support our store". Unfortunately, this costs the store business. People will walk in the door to sit down and have a cup of coffee, see that there isn't an open seat in the place, and turn around and walk back out.
You might say I should do a better job enforcing the policy of only handing out cards when the guest makes a purchase. Well, I had a lady nearly bite my head off just for telling her what the actual policy was (I was handing her a card anyway, and just letting her know for the future). It's not worth the headache.
rant...Come on people, this isn't your office or your home. We aren't your ISP. We are in the business of selling coffee, not giving away internet access. It's provided as a courtesy and convenience. If one hour (in the case of S'bucks, 2 hours) of free access without having purchased a single thing isn't good enough for you, then you need to get your sense of entitlement in check./rant
Starbucks is going to find that their patrons stay longer and may end up buying more, but any profit will be negated by other customers not being able to find seating. The seating in most S'bucks is sparse already...
In every Starbucks I've been to in the last few years they've had free wifi.
All other coffee shops I've been to (outside the US) have also had free wifi (when I've tried). If I go to one that didn't have it, I'd go to another one (but that's not happened yet).
Max.
Max.
If you provide free WIFI in the states, you have to be CALEA compliant. I haven't heard of anyone charged the 10,000 a day for non compliance if the feds want to investigate something, but once that happens I expect the mom + pop shops offering free wifi to dry right up.
That's right, free WIFI makes the last person responsible. It doesn't matter if your ISP is CALEA complaint, the last mile/last foot has to also be complaint. Live TCP streaming connections in a wacky format to the feds - wiretapping at its finest.
Um, sorry: Caribou, S'bucks et al are NOT really in the coffee business. Coffee's the apparent center, I'll agree, but the real foundations of the business are very different. S'bucks--at one time--said they wanted to form the basis of a new civil forum. A place to share with other people. Oh yeah, and have some coffee.
Look, movie theaters stopped being in the "movie business" when Hollywood took 100% of the door. (70's in major markets, ubiquitous by mid 80's) That's when they became "Quik E Marts with moving pictures on the back wall." McDonalds, I'm told, is not principally in the burger biz: they own/control so much primo real estate that their worth is not in meat served but in land owned.
Your store is trying to make a place for meeting, and hoping to capitalize on that by selling coffee and sundries to those who chose to meet there. So it's the place first, then the coffee. Wifi's part of the decor, do it right, sell more coffee.
Put another way: if WiFi were a cost in excess of return, your bosses would be enforcing that "one card per purchase" rule with an iron fist. So like you said, it's not worth the hassle: give it away upon request. That's a high enough bar for the boardroom, it should be for you too.
And relax about the schlubs in the seats. If turnover were an issue, your bosses' bonuses would depend on solving the problem. (Imagine: A norovirus policy, wherein the whole place needs to be bleached every 90 minutes. Turnover problem solved.)
I have been following the public WIFIs that are spreading around the world and my experience tells me that in the end they ended closing and the model is not sustainable, due to the overall costs and the balance between security and freedom of the connection. Regards, O. http://www.open-networks.org/ Open Ideas for Open Minds
This outcome was inevitable since I began my boycott of Starbucks' usurious T-Mobile wifi service several years ago. And yes, it will be available everywhere for free soon enough. This is as God intended, when he Created wifi. Thanks be to God.
Cool funny t-shirts for geeks, gamers and everyone else
You make a valid point. Both companies are selling an "experience". In fact, Caribou's mission statement is "...an experience that makes the day better". That being said, I doubt people would come into an establishment and pay to have internet access and a seat without coffee (I'm disregarding internet cafes as the provide computers). A vast majority of our sales is either coffee beans or prepared drinks. Starbucks is probably the same, though they may have a larger percentage of merchandise sales that sell the "lifestyle".
:)
I suppose I was a bit ranty (word?) before. Stressful day + open forum = free for all.
And I like you're idea about throwing bleach on the campers. Wait, that was what you were suggesting, right? (kidding)