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Scientology Given Direct Access To eBay Database
An anonymous reader writes "The Church of Scientology can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision under the VeRO program, and has used this to delete all resale of the e-meters Scientologists use. This is to stop members from buying used units from ex-members instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source. Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust? Will this set a precedent for other companies that want to stop the aftermarket resale of their products?"
Is it, in general, legal to allow a vendor to prevent the resale of their product? I don't understand why this would be considered beneficial to society or why it wouldn't be considered monopolistic.
Of course, I'm no lawyer, but I've heard that everyone on Slashdot is.
Seems to me that given the recent Project Chanology protests against Scientology, this would be the perfect time for Anonymous to organize a massive boycott of eBay. Or worse, expand their DOS and hack attacks to include eBay, since they're cooperating with the CoS.
Posting this AC because, frankly, I don't want anybody to think I'm advocating this. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
It isn't even favoritism, it's outright stupid given CoS' past abuses.
A blog about stuff.
I think their membership is ready for an F-meter which indicates just how much they are being fucked over by their own church.
I was under the impression this was exactly the kind of reason eBay existed. "hey, i don't use this junk anymore, what'll you give me for it?" If the "church" was really given this kind of power, that's just not right.
Perhaps if they wanted to curb the resale of their devices, they should offer some sort of buy back program? They'll still turn around and sell them again and make a profit.
It's outright stupid, period. Why does ebay give this power to anyone? What do they possibly stand to gain from it? And how on earth does the CoS, or anyone, restrict after-market resale of their products? It's called the free market and it's America. Licensing software is one thing, but a physical object? What ?
"Shawn Lonsdale, whose one-man crusade against Scientology made him a public enemy of the church, was found dead at his home over the weekend in an apparent suicide. He was 39."
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/lonsdale1.html
That's pretty sad.
Though the fraud claim will probably lead to slashdot getting sued, Germany http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/12/08/scientology_facing_ban_in_germany/5643/ and several other countries have taken steps to limit scientology within their borders. While many might seek to compare this to the actions of many Islamist states, scientology's claims often involve situations that fall under racketeering laws not aspects of religious freedom.
It is a privilege to do everything in our power for Tom. This crap is so valuable, you should pay a lot to prove you are a sucker.
Working on new views of old physics at http://VisualPhysics.org
If that's "+5 Insightful" around here these day, then I want a piece of the action: 1 + 1 = 2. This profound result is equally surprising.
I especially love their section on how things won't be mistakenly removed: How eBay helps to ensure that listings aren't mistakenly removed. A rights owner reporting through VeRO must be registered through VeRO before reporting items to us. Rights owners sign legally binding documents when reporting items to eBay. Ooooh! Legal binding documents, I feel so safe.
A blog about stuff.
Hopefully the Catholics won't find out I've been reselling my indulgences too!
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
You know, I simply don't understand why the government lets $cientology have its cake and eat it too. If they're a religion, then they shouldn't be afforded all these civil protections. I'm not going to get sued by my local Catholic Diocese if I print nasty bits from the Bible or some part of the latest Papal encyclical.
I think the government should give $cientology a choice; either be a religion, in which case you can't sue, you can't seek special favors from companies over the resale of your products, and so forth, or you're not a religion, and you're a business, in which case you've got to pay taxes on moneys or products changing hands.
And in either case, their lawyers should be disbarred for multiple cases of malicious prosecution.
Or, in short form, FUCK $CIENTOLOGY.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Does this mean my "What Would Xenu Do?" t-shirt isn't legal?
This is important and it is relevant to the main story, because Co$ victims are often first thought to have committed suicide. There is a direct link between the main story and this news. Co$ is a dangerous cult.
Erm, excuse me. What does God need with a starship?
-
I would equate an E-meter to that of a condom. Two things you would never want to buy used and two things used for screwing people.
Scientology must die. It was already a sign that they are beyond control when they can intimidate the IRS let alone eBay. I find it amazing that they've been able to do what they've done to this point. They are indeed frightening and that is reason enough to want the whole operation disbanded. I wonder how the EU is doing with the CoS? Last I heard some member nations were refusing to recognize them as a religion.
It's a given that CoS will abuse eBay's information. I guess it's already too late to purge my account.
... so the CoS can get the name and address of the auction lister, then Fair Game them as they see fit.
According to eBay's VeRO ToS they will gladly hand this information over.
Germany, especially, which is launching an investigation into their practices.
You may be interested in the phenomenon of Anonymous--a sort of movement that has coalesced to fight against the abuses of the Church of Scientology.
Interestingly, the 'official' position (if so nebulous a thing can have anything 'official') is not that the -religion- of scientology is wrong and evil, but that the -organization- that calls itself the 'Church of Scientology' does not deserve tax exemption, recognition as a church, etc.
I've been keeping track of Anonymous for some time--they seem to be the origin of many of the various memes that end up getting popular, so they seem to work well as a sort of miner's canary when discerning the opinion of the internet in general. This is, to my knowledge, the first time that this particular phenomenon has occurred--an internet movement that has had significant international effect in the real world. What makes it even more interesting is that it -has no leaders-. Somehow, out of total anarchy, it's managed to coalesce a sort of identity to itself, and has directed attention towards a single goal.
At any rate, it appears that as a followup to the February 10th protests (which were remarkable in themselves in that they were entirely without violence and none of the protesters in any of the countries were arrested--that has to be a first, in a protest of that scope) there are another series of protests being planned for March 15th--sort of a "Happy Birthday" to Hubbard, whose birthday was apparently March 13th and not conveniently on a Saturday this year. I've also heard some mention of plans for April, but not being an Anon, I don't know the details.
IIRC, one of the Anonymous-sponsored websites is youfoundthecard.com; it's worth looking into.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure dome decree
Of course, another completely misleading headline and article summary.
The VeRO program does not provide direct access to eBay's database to delete items. It is a fast-track for manufacturers to submit deletion requests for items they believe are infringing on their copyrights. Every time an auction is deleted, the VeRO program gives eBay the proper documents holding the manufacturers legally responsible for their claim of copyright infringement.
Taking a simple look at the program's description reveals that ANY auction being deleted through this program can be reinstated, automatically, by the user, within 10 days. They simply have to do the same thing the manufacturer did: claim legal responsibility for their auction, in writing.
Now, there's no doubt that I, as a private individual, would never risk challenging the very well funded battery of lawyers the Church of Scientology has to keep me in line. Even though I know they have no leg to stand on, I can't afford the legal battle. But I wouldn't cry that its eBay's fault, when eBay gave me the option to directly challenge the "manufacturer".
If you can't find a real troll, just mod down whoever you don't agree with!
Not sure if scientologists are exactly the group I'd want ebay to "we can (and you authorize us to) disclose your User ID, name, street address, city, state, zip code, country, phone number, email, and company name to eBay VeRO Program participants as we in our sole discretion believe necessary or appropriate in connection with an investigation of fraud, intellectual property infringement, piracy, or other unlawful activity."
There is nothing funny about them.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I dunno...my girlfriend has religious paraphenalia that needs electricity. I know because when I am in another room, I can hear a buzzing sound in the bedroom and her chanting, "oh, god. oh, god! ohhhhh, gooood!"
The problem with "WWXD?" is that it's just not a terribly useful guiding philosophy. For instance, imagine you're in a situation where you're having trouble getting along with your coworkers, and so you ask yourself, "WWXD?" The answer is that Xenu would round up his coworkers, put them on some starships shaped like DC-8 airliners, ship them to the distant reaches of the galaxy, and then nuke them into oblivion. So, as you can see, "WWXD?" has two major problems:
First, the solution is *always* to put people on spaceships shaped like 1950s-era jet airliners and then nuke them, because that's all we know about Xenu. "WWXD?" dictates that you put people on DC-8 shaped spaceships and then nuke them in any situation, whether it's marital problems, dealing with the poor, or feeling frustrated that you dropped your grilled cheese sandwich: just round up a bunch of people, put them on airplane-shaped spaceships, and then drop a bunch of H-bombs on them. It's just not very flexible as a philosophy.
The second issue with the "WWXD?" philosophy is more practical. Xenu was an evil galactic overlord. As a galactic overlord, he had lots of resources, in particular, lots of minions and henchmen to round people up and put them on spaceships, and lots of spaceships shaped like DC-8s, and lots of thermonuclear bombs. Unless you have access to similar resources, "WWXD?" is just not practical to apply to your everyday life. Although I admit, when I think of how to deal with Scientologists, and then ask "WWXD?", I have to admit that the philosophy does have some appeal.
You shouldn't talk of things about which you are ignorant.
There almost certainly was a historical Buddha. There is far more evidence for this, from independent sources, than for (e.g.) Socrates.
And FYI, the Buddha never said he was anything but a normal man. In fact, he stated again and again that he was just that -- not some kind of a God or superbeing.
Don't forget abducting falsely imprisoning and torturing people.
A sect? I consider them organized crime.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Think about the South Park episode that went through the entire theology of the CoS, with a big blinking sign that read "This is what Scientologists actually believe" over the animation. That was even more effective than the "Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum" song refrain about the Mormons, all the more so since there was no attempt at all at the end of the episode to paint actual CoS members as decent human beings, unlike the Mormon episode.
Laugh at them.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
In that case, never mind. It's much more likely that you executed a denial of service attack on your *own* machine than on eBay. I mean, you do know that Firefox has an upper limit on how many connections it will actually open at the same time, right? (Go to about:config and filter for "connect.") All other connections are just placed in a queue until Firefox has an available slot. The slowdown was entirely on your own machine and LAN.
I mean, honestly... Did you really think that you were being some sort of 1337 super-hax0r by using *one* machine on a single home or school connection to bog down one of the largest e-commerce sites on the planet?
(Oh, also, your proposed Million Loser March is more likely to DoS your proxy service than eBay itself.) The law's tried it before anyways. I run rings around them every time, simpyly because most judges aren't smart enough to know what they're trying to charge me for. Sure thing, kid. Keep saying things like that in a public forum. We're all in awe of your brilliance and eagerly await to see the way in which your intellect would dazzle the courtroom.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
The problem with "WWCBND?" is that it's just not a terribly useful guiding philosophy. For instance, imagine you're in a situation where you're having trouble getting along with your coworkers, and so you ask yourself, "WWCBND?" The answer is that CowboyNeal would sit on a couch, eat Pringles, and play video games. So, as you can see, "WWCBND?" has two major problems:
First, the solution is *always* to sit on a couch, eat Pringles, and play video games because that's all we know about CowboyNeal. "WWCBND?" dictates that you sit on a couch, eat Pringles, and play video games in any situation, whether it's marital problems, dealing with the poor, or feeling frustrated that you dropped your grilled cheese sandwich: just sit on a couch, eat some Pringles, and play video games. It's just not very flexible as a philosophy.
The second issue with the "WWCBND?" philosophy is more practical. CowboyNeal is a fat slob. As a fat slob, he already has the resources to follow through with this plan, in particular, he has a couch, lots of Pringles, and plenty of video games to play. Unless you have access to similar resources, "WWCBND?" is just not practical to apply to your everyday life. Although I admit, when I think of how to deal with the fact that I too am a fat slob, and then ask "WWCBND?", I have to admit that the philosophy does have some appeal.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
no, it's a sect, a split from the Church of "Astounding Stories".
According to Wiki, It IS a variant of a Wheatstone Bridge, and was not built by Hubbard himself (even though he owned the patent for the device), but rather by one of the members of the church (presumably a higher ranking member). The meter was then given to Hubbard, who went on to patent it.
Read the wiki linked to in the article summary. Very Interesting.
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What is eBay thinking? I'm not going to read TFA because it'll probably make my head hurt, but I'm hoping this was some oversight on eBay's part and the outcry is going to make them re-evaluate this "vErO" policy or whatever the hell it's called. I don't see why anybody should have this level of access to eBay besides the folks who administer the site. So this means that if I put a used computer up for sale on eBay Microsoft can delete it because there's a good chance that it has Windows on it? Disney can delete my auction of a used copy of The Little Mermaid? Or how about Apple being able to delete my auction of an old iPod (including 5000 mp3s)?
I suppose it's just too much trouble to expect a third party to have to write a C&D letter to eBay, sort of like how it's too much trouble for the NSA to get an after-the-fact warrant signed by a judge before they listen in on the phone calls of US citizens.
I'd like to say I'll never deal with eBay again, except for the fact that I've never dealt with eBay in the first place. I do like to barter through the Illinois Trade Association, though. If you think auctions are a cool way to do business, you really need to check out barter. It's one way to keep the government out of your grill.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Dear eBay,
Get some balls.
Sincerely,
Me
This is the same thing that eBay has been doing since they killed my auctions in 1998.
/.
You see, Microsoft wanted to engage in illegal price fixing, and killed my auctions reselling copies of Microsoft software that I had won as door prizes.
I had never agreed to a license agreement, so I was not bound by it, but eBay still allowed Microsoft to kill my auctions.
It was only after I won my small-claims lawsuit against eBay for breech of contract, and another small claims court suit against Microsoft for slander that I got another eBay account. That's why my account says "since 1999."
Anyway, great job hopping on this story 9 years later,
Andy
What is your problem? The Fishman Affidavit is a court document, that's not a good enough cite for you that L. Ron Hubbard actually said that Jesus likes little boys? Or did you not bother to read (or not comprehend) the website and assumed the poster was bashing your favorite fairy tale?
Let me be perfectly clear then: Scientology makes the claim, in their official religious literature, that Jesus was a homosexual pedophile. That is backed up by court records.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Correct.
And things like rising from an untimely death after being nailed to a cross (or tree) three days after dying (and then celebrating), having a last supper, being born of a virgin, being the son of a god, etc... were all prevalent beliefs of pagan mythology at the time of and well before Jesus. A guy who had these "myths" thrown upon his name decades after he was dead in order to start a religion.
People forget that the history of most religions are far more "earth-bound" than they like to realize...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
If I want to know about Christianity, I can buy a Bible. I could even get free bibles if I know where to look. I could find a million different people preaching about the religion. I could find people who would be head over heals to go in depth about their beliefs for absolutley no money. I could sell a Bible on eBay and the pope isn't going to delete it. On the other hand, Scientology offers nothing except a promise of enlightment for a large sum of money. They don't follow through and have so much against them legally and morally that it is sophomoric to compare them to a real religion. Say what you want about religion, but a true religion is open (like most major religions) and a cult is closed (like Scientology). Taking jabs at mainstream religion is childish and ignores the real issues. And finally, Christianity's largest atrocities occured centuries ago, the stuff Scientology has done is completely out of place for the 20th and 21st century. I'm not trying to defend Christianity out of zealotry (I do not practice Christianity or Judaism, the two religions of my parents, although I do believe in God), I'm defending it because in this day and age it is a respectful religion to follow and one that isn't based around money, crime and tax breaks. Sure, one may not agree with some views but those views are open book. Scientology won't tell you their views because they are idiotic. All the stuff we know about Xenu is from leaks. Scientology never volunteered that information, and for a good reason. Until you are brainwashed, it sounds like pure BS.