Slashdot Mirror
Scientology Given Direct Access To eBay Database
An anonymous reader writes "The Church of Scientology can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision under the VeRO program, and has used this to delete all resale of the e-meters Scientologists use. This is to stop members from buying used units from ex-members instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source. Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust? Will this set a precedent for other companies that want to stop the aftermarket resale of their products?"
Just go to Radio Shack and buy an ohmmeter. They're a lot cheaper.
Short answer, no.
This is favoritism. Microsoft doesn't even have this ability to stop the resale of their software.
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
Is it, in general, legal to allow a vendor to prevent the resale of their product? I don't understand why this would be considered beneficial to society or why it wouldn't be considered monopolistic.
Of course, I'm no lawyer, but I've heard that everyone on Slashdot is.
Seems to me that given the recent Project Chanology protests against Scientology, this would be the perfect time for Anonymous to organize a massive boycott of eBay. Or worse, expand their DOS and hack attacks to include eBay, since they're cooperating with the CoS.
Posting this AC because, frankly, I don't want anybody to think I'm advocating this. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
It could be just the media frenzy making a bigger deal of isolated incidents than the real deal is, but it seems like the group is both paranoid and vindictive. I am more worried about them trying to use this as an opportunity to supress criticism than to use it to supress second hand resales. Although why one shouldn't be able to resell one's physical property in a free contry is beyond me.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Do they just have the ability to delete sales, or do they also have access to the details of who's been bidding, selling, and buying?
Yet another reason to not use EBay or PayPal.
Who knew the NSA is the least the vast conspiracy-minded unwashed have to fear.
I wonder who at eBay is high up the kook-chain in Scientology?
"Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust?"
No.
If I am the manufaturer of a widgit, what do I have to do to gain access to Ebay to delete whatever auctions I want? Do I just have to write in the EULA that I have this right and then go onto Ebay and delete the auctions of competitors.
quis custodiet ipsos custodes
I think their membership is ready for an F-meter which indicates just how much they are being fucked over by their own church.
I was under the impression this was exactly the kind of reason eBay existed. "hey, i don't use this junk anymore, what'll you give me for it?" If the "church" was really given this kind of power, that's just not right.
Perhaps if they wanted to curb the resale of their devices, they should offer some sort of buy back program? They'll still turn around and sell them again and make a profit.
"Shawn Lonsdale, whose one-man crusade against Scientology made him a public enemy of the church, was found dead at his home over the weekend in an apparent suicide. He was 39."
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/lonsdale1.html
That's pretty sad.
Though the fraud claim will probably lead to slashdot getting sued, Germany http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/12/08/scientology_facing_ban_in_germany/5643/ and several other countries have taken steps to limit scientology within their borders. While many might seek to compare this to the actions of many Islamist states, scientology's claims often involve situations that fall under racketeering laws not aspects of religious freedom.
[This comment violated the TOS from the Cult of Scientology. (tm)]
This action of preventing the resale of a product is illegal--- once I buy a device, I am free to resell it. For example an auto maker cannot force me not to resell a car.
...to stop using eBay to sell your used stuff.
It is a privilege to do everything in our power for Tom. This crap is so valuable, you should pay a lot to prove you are a sucker.
Working on new views of old physics at http://VisualPhysics.org
Part of me feels bad because this just sounds so wrong on so many levels and these people should be able to sell that garbage. Quite honestly I'm going to argue that the Church of Scientology is not environmentally friendly if they're going to force people to buy new and not ever get used. If they can't sell this stuff used it's going to end up in the garbage.
The other part of me can't help but laugh hysterically that these people actually bought in to Scientology in the first place.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
I will not work with ANY company that works with those evil *deleted*. I will no longer use e-bay or paypal. they want my business back, go neutral or allow all religious groups to delete auctions.
-Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
This post is way to subjective.
Hopefully the Catholics won't find out I've been reselling my indulgences too!
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
It's pretty obvious from the early comments that not many people RTFA. (Comments like, "I wonder who at eBay is high up the kook-chain in Scientology?" and all that.) This is an established EBay program called VERO that Scientology has joined, like a bunch of other manufacturers, and (big surprise) happens to be abusing.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
If someone is critical of CoS, do they now have the power to stop those people from selling and buying on eBay as a way of getting back at critics?
If what they want is to put an end to their online existence. Giving CoS carte blanc to delete auctions is worse that putting the fox in charge of the hen house. Was Ebay, presumable savvy to how the Internet works, thinking nobody would notice this? What kind of drugs do you have to take to get that delusional?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Now where am I going to go to resell my Top Gun action figures or my White Tony Manuro Disco Suit?
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
I offer a lower priced eldavojohn branded E-Meter for scientologists looking to test themselves with the judgmental grand inquisitor present. It comes complete with car battery and nipple clamps!
And yet, the scientologists claim that this E-Meter is useless by itself, you need someone trained to interpret it. How convenient and yet they restrict its sale. If it's useless to the untrained, why do they stop sales of it?
My work here is dung.
A quick google for "e-meter schematic" reveals about 1200 pages. The first few that I checked have the circuit diagram for the e-meter, often directly drawn from L. Ron Hubbard's 1966 patent.
For those who can't figure out the diagram, it's basically a Wheatstone bridge with a simple (crappy) differential amplifier. It's the sort of thing anyone could build from pennies worth of components.
"Will this set a precedent for other companies that want to stop the aftermarket resale of their products?"
It's already been happening. eBay is huge. It has slowly evolved/mutated over time, partially as a result of being pwned by entities with big money. This is just another example of why people do use other on-line auction houses (and should use them more).
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
It's probably cheaper for Ebay to simply acquiesce to the CoS demands than to meet them in court. Even if they win, they may never see their legal fees recovered. There is less risk involved in giving in, too: they loose almost nothing if they yank the items, but could potentially lose a fortune if they don't.
The Scientologists are just that scary.
weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
I wondered why I couldn't find any Xenu or Anti-Scientology items on ebay.
Precisely no one should be surprised that the CoS is engaging in this behaviour. What disturbs me is that EBay doesn't monitor the actions of its VeRO partners far more closely. Given the power that they bestow on them, EBay must put some type of oversight into place. Allowing their partners to excise auctions however they please without concern that they may overstep their bounds (and possibly lose their privileged status) is a horrendous feature of the program. As many have said, "I'm no lawyer", but in addition to the tortious nature of CoS's actions, I suspect that such lax oversight could find EBay guilty of negligence as well. Any thoughts?
The real question is, since when does your religious paraphernalia need to be be plugged into the wall?
"In The Year 2000... In The Year 2000..."
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
The government is not stopping sale of e-meters, and eBay, as a private vendor, can fully decide what and what not can be sold on their site. If they choose not to allow sale of e-meters, then thats their prerogative.
The CoS is not doing anything illegal either, since they are acting now as an agent of E bay.
But I think a much better question is, what did scientology do to eBay to get them to agree to this?
Actually, Co$ could probably be sued for false advertising.
The name of the product is the "Mark VIII Super Quantum E-meter". A Wheatstone bridge, however, works on completely classical principles.
Or maybe resistance is quantized, with one quantum of resistance being equal to the extra resistance from one extra thetan hanging around?
The summary and title are a bit misleading. The CoS is removing listings using the VeRO program, not getting "direct DB access" as is claimed. Still blatant abuse of the program, so their actions are definitely NOT defensible.
Interestingly people who are targeted by this can file a DMCA counter claim and bring the issue into the court system. I hope this guy does that - maybe some of the CoS's practices can finally see the light of day.
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
is there rather a lot of anti-Scientology stuff here recently?
/. userbase there must be some of L. Ron's acolytes. Plenty of science and SciFci fans here.
Interestingly, I don't see a lot - make that *any* pro-posts either. Surely somewhere in the vast
C'mon boys, stand up for your faith!
Or is that forbidden too?
From the "E-Meter" wikipedia link in the summary: "In 1958 when Scientologists Don Breeding and Joe Wallis developed a modified, smaller battery-operated version, which they presented to Hubbard, he again used it. This was christened the Hubbard electrometer. Hubbard patented it on December 6, 1966, as a "Device for Measuring and Indicating Changes in the Resistance of a Human Body" (U.S. Patent 3,290,589 ). The patent is now expired and in the public domain. The Church of Scientology continues to make, sell, and teach its use in auditing." So if the E-Meter is in the public domain, how can they control who resells them?
Insert witty comment here
According to the article, the Church of Scientology basically has no legal leg to stand on. Of course, who is going to take them to court? eBay surely doesn't care. And what about the people who are trying to buy used "e-meters"? Well, they are almost surely *Scientologists*! And we all know how the CoS feels about members that get out-of-line. I imagine that if the CoS *ever* caught one of their members buying a used e-meter, they'd make their lives hell.
. So, really, no harm done all-around, I say.
This is important and it is relevant to the main story, because Co$ victims are often first thought to have committed suicide. There is a direct link between the main story and this news. Co$ is a dangerous cult.
as access to eBay goes. I think this would be a great step for online games companies (ie Blizzard, Funcom, Sony) to stop RMT for their digital products. Granted much of the market is on individual company sites and not eBay but I see character auctions for MMOs listed there fairly often. For the CoS: My religion thinks item _____ is bad *auction deleted*
~Vexed and loving it!
I would equate an E-meter to that of a condom. Two things you would never want to buy used and two things used for screwing people.
Do you think? Wouldn't Cisco, or Adobe love to crack down on the grey-market resale of old versions of their products? Talk about taking asinine to a whole new level...
Who did what now?
As a big Simpsons fan, I feel so dirty now.
Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust?
The answer is right there. Would you want any group with Scientology's record of fraud and abuse to have access to anything important?
What do you want to bet they'd pull auctions of other Scientology-questionable stuff that isn't e meters?
Put a DVD copy of Anonymous' Scientology protests up for sale and watch what happens. What do you want to bet that it winds up deleted? Blocking e meter sales my ass - this is nothing more than some goofy cult making decisions about what you're allowed to buy. Don't let it happen!
These people are batshit fucking insane. Don't legitimize them by giving them any sort of power, control, or authority whatsoever.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
... What are the odds that these jokers will try to pull the same stunt? Perhaps that's the answer?
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
... so the CoS can get the name and address of the auction lister, then Fair Game them as they see fit.
According to eBay's VeRO ToS they will gladly hand this information over.
Even if E-Bay goes along with this, perjury is a criminal offense. The prosecutor in the county where the perjury happened can go after these people with a very large clue-stick.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
That's wacky. Try it yourself...
In the search box type (without quotes) "emeter". If you type it with the quotes, that's different.
What happens? You perform a search for "exeter"!
I'm sure it isn't anything sinister, though. A search for "cimputer" is changed into a search for "computer". But it sure is confusing.
This is to stop members from buying used units from ex-members instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source.
How exactly is this illegal?
Why should eBay even fucking care?
This sets a lousy precedent. What if the RIAA decides that used CDs are too cheap and asks for the same, for instance? Or Ford decides that used cars are damaging their sales so you're not allowed to sell them? Or Levis decides that their jeans last too long, so you're not allowed to resell them?
This is *seriously* bad news.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Does ebay have any real competitors? Gunbroker doesn't really count.
When a company starts getting abusive with what it does, it may be best to go elsewhere.
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
It isn't censorship. It isn't illegal. It is totally within the scope of eBay's user agreements with sellers and buyers. eBay has negotiated an agreement with a large vendor who is interested in preventing the resale of their items. I HAVE to presume that whatever these items are they come with an agreement eliminating the possiblity of resale. They would then fall in to the category of attempting to resell items which have a non-transferrable license. It is totally within their rights to cancel any auction that they feel is outside their TOS. In this case, they have chosen to offload the work on to a more zealous party.
Just because it is withing their rights doesn't make it a good idea. As a matter of fact, it is a terrible idea. allowing a third party to void auctions without oversight is foolish for a few reasons:
1. Other large interests see these actions and will want the same treatment, as long as it does not offer significant negative publicity. The fact that ebay is WILLING to offer this service puts them in a bad barganing position with these other firms.
2. It only means lost revenue for ebay. Presumably, ebay was faced with a legal threat over allowing resale of these items. SOMEHOW, ebay made the determination that compliance was somehow too expensive and have offered to shift the cost of compliance to CoS. CoS does NOT have an incentive to be careful. They have an incentive to overextend their authority because the lost customer is not theirs.
3. As a corollary, this is like outsourcing your customer service to a motorcycle gang. CoS has every reason to be pernicious, litigious and overbroad. They have NO reason to see gray areas and offer the benefit of the doubt.
4. Compliance in good faith by ebay would probably not have hazarded a lawsuit. IANAL, but most of these suits stem from what is basically deliberate negligence on the part of the reselling authority (or serving authority). If ebay acts on their own standards they are likely to meet whatever tests exist.
What they're really trying to control is the purchase of scientology collectables by non-scientologists.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Of course, another completely misleading headline and article summary.
The VeRO program does not provide direct access to eBay's database to delete items. It is a fast-track for manufacturers to submit deletion requests for items they believe are infringing on their copyrights. Every time an auction is deleted, the VeRO program gives eBay the proper documents holding the manufacturers legally responsible for their claim of copyright infringement.
Taking a simple look at the program's description reveals that ANY auction being deleted through this program can be reinstated, automatically, by the user, within 10 days. They simply have to do the same thing the manufacturer did: claim legal responsibility for their auction, in writing.
Now, there's no doubt that I, as a private individual, would never risk challenging the very well funded battery of lawyers the Church of Scientology has to keep me in line. Even though I know they have no leg to stand on, I can't afford the legal battle. But I wouldn't cry that its eBay's fault, when eBay gave me the option to directly challenge the "manufacturer".
If you can't find a real troll, just mod down whoever you don't agree with!
E-Bay is private firm, and they're free to list or not list sales on their site for any reason whatsoever, including because the "Church" of Scientology asserts some utterly bogus intellectual property right, or because they just feel like it.
The C of S is not "preventing the resale of their product," they're just preventing the resale through E-Bay and with E-Bay's cooperation. You can still put an ad in the paper and sell it, or put up a notice in your neighborhood market, or just walk around town with a sign attached to you saying "E-Meter Cheap!"
And who gives a shit what the lawyers think? Why should the law be relevant here? This isn't a question you want the lawyers thinking about, because you can be damn sure that any solution they think up is going to cost you far more in cash and personal liberty than you would like to part with. Do you want there to be a law telling you what you can and cannot sell on your personal website? Do you want to have to get your Craigslist ad vetted by the police before it can go up? Do you want the FBI to have the right to interrogate you about whether you sold your pet cat or unused furniture to the right people, and in the right way?
Christ, let us keep the lawyers in the fridge, OK? If there's a big market for secondhand E-meters, and E-Bay foolishly foregoes it because they want to keep the Scientologists happy, then let someone start up a private website devoted to reselling E-Meters, and he will make scads of money, more than enough to dare the "Church" to sue him, and get their clueless clock cleaned and get hit for beaucoup lawyer fees on top of it.
But what I suspect is that ex-Scientologists who want to recoup some of the financial loss associated with their recent vacation from rationality are a very small group, and while it kinda sucks that when there's very few of you and a whole lot of someone else (in this case, non-ex-Scientologists, or pre-ex-Scientologists), you have to tread carefully, that's just life in a wide-open democracy. It's not like an intelligent and determined person can't work around this problem fairly easily. I'm sure if I had an E-Meter to sell, I could do it easily enough without E-Bay or the Church getting a clue. Probably my 16-year-old could, too.
they now reference the words "e-meter" and "Scientology". That should drive some sales and page views.
Voight-Kampff for short,
You insensitive cloud!
Really, this just the latest in a long line of Ebay shirking their duty to actually police their own system. The fact that it's Scientology doing the policing is what brought this to light. Between the VeRO program and the difficulty in reporting fraudulent auctions within the site, it's obvious that Ebay doesn't give two shiny pennies about the validity of auctions. All they care about is that people sell -something- on ebay, so they can get their percentage. It's why they bought Paypal, and then made it against the rules to use other checkout systems. It's why you routinely see knockoff, non-functional, and straight out scam auctions on Ebay constantly. Have you ever tried to CALL ebay, or Paypal? Good luck! I worked for a salvage company with over 23,000 positive feedback, and we had to argue constantly to keep paypal from charging us back, or ebay from cancelling valid auctions. At the same time I typically spent 2-3 hours a week seeking out and reporting false auctions that were duping our pics and descriptions- only perhaps half of them ever got cancelled.
;)
What it comes down to is that if Ebay doesn't expand it's personell enough to adequately monitor auctions, or start using some sort of peer-review system, people will go elsewhere.
I don't buy from ebay unless it's the only source for what i need, and i never use paypal. Don't use paypal attached to your main bank account EVER, paypal has the ability to drain the account dry with no reason, and little recourse. Scary.
posted anonymously to keep you from stalking me on ebay
On the one hand, Scientology is money-sucking voodoo fraud. On the other hand, psychiatry makes up diseases and make money selling legalized dopes - a money-sucking voodoo fraud. Can't these two collide and annihilate each other a la matter-antimatter? Ok, ok, I'm sure there are good bits to psychiatry that can maybe thrown in neuroscience, but you can probably say the same for Scientology?
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Am I paranoid to think that Scientology had a role in it? Even if it was nothing more than driving him to it...
...
The sick thing? I'm certain that, even if they had nothing to do with it, Scientologists will chalk this up as a "win"
Q: What's the difference between Microsoft and the Church of Scientology?
A: One is a wealthy and powerful criminal enterprise bent on world domination, while the other, ah, ummm.... Microsoft has better health benefits.
As an interesting anecdote regarding the Church of Scientology, there is an interesting Supreme Court of Canada case (Hill v. Scientology) which was the largest punitive damages award ever given out in Canada, and which case now literally defines "punitive damages" in the Canadian legal context.
In other news, Craigslist sez "Bring on the E-Meters!"
There is a war going on for your mind.
...is available.
Just mentioning it.
but when i asked ebay to audit my account, they just laughed at me. why?
oh well, i guess there's just no market out there for thimble sized fine porcelain body thetans
*sigh*
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Excuse me, I need to delete my Ebay account.
Okay, I'm back. No way, who's to say they aren't pulling the personal information of the resellers, and using that information for more nefarious purposes, ranging from lawsuits to harassment. Not to mention what other sensitive information they may try to obtain.
"Teach a man to build a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."
All they need is some dedicated flaggers. And face it, anyone who is willing to stand outside handing out personality tests is willing to sit on their rear and click "scam". I recommend auctioning material on Scatentology. It's Scientology crazy but free. As a matter of fact, I think I'll list an auction for Scatentology secrets and an F-Meter (a seashell. You hold it to your ear and listen to the cretans instruct you).
www.voiceofthehive.com - Beekeeping and Honeybees for those who don't.
I know the CoS is manned by a bunch of persistent barratrous bastards but it is absolutely ridiculous that eBay would cave into them this way. It's lazy and irresponsible for a company the size of eBay to let CoS have their way once again when they have the resources to fight their crap.
It's one thing for the scientologists to claim copyright protections on their literature but restricting the sale or e-meters is something they don't have the right to do. E-meters are hard physical items that are subject to the right of first sale doctrine. There is no copyright violation going on with their resale. Likewise, there should be nothing wrong with people reselling original copies of CoS literature provided they aren't bound by a contract that says otherwise.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
To use the word "e-meter". Man, that'll drive up hits! Hopefully Scientologists won't whack them though.
You shouldn't talk of things about which you are ignorant.
There almost certainly was a historical Buddha. There is far more evidence for this, from independent sources, than for (e.g.) Socrates.
And FYI, the Buddha never said he was anything but a normal man. In fact, he stated again and again that he was just that -- not some kind of a God or superbeing.
eBay has long since decided to deputize any company that feels like signing papers with complete and unfettered access to eBay. Anyone that signs a "legally binding document" can then gain power to delete any auction from eBay for whatever reason they feel like. If it's because of counterfeit or provably stolen product, that's fine, but eBay's history of repudiating first sale has really gotten tiring.
Try reselling Weight Watchers program materials. They get deleted on a regular basis because Weight Watchers doesn't like it if you resell them. There's no legal basis for this, and if you push the issue with eBay, the response you get is "Well, they said they don't want you selling them, so too bad." They tell you to "take it up with Weight Watchers" who says "We say you can't sell them, and that's that."
VeRO is a bullshit program that lets eBay wash their hands of legitimate issues on the site and that gives companies ridiculously too much power. Do you think that if I set up a stand at a flea market reselling legally acquired materials, that the flea market owners would stand for the publisher of those materials walking around with a rubber hose and yanking the items away if I tried to sell them?
This isn't news, hopefully this just pushes VeRO into the public eye and convinces eBay to get rid of it, or to force "rights owners" (I wasn't aware that a "right to prevent resale" existed) to actually file individual complaints based on some sort of legal theory to delist an item, not just "We don't want these resold." Scn is abusing it like they abuse everything else, but this system seems to be made specifically to facilitate abuse.
"The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
...you could not come close to it's functionality with that original patent's design... Uhm... what functionality is that, exactly? It seems it has one function: to separate fools from their money in the service of richer fools. In that way, it seems to work identically to the 1960's version, only with a cooler name.And: it sounds like it was named by an eight-year-old.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
What *I* really don't get is why people don't just call Scientology for what it is: a sect. That way people who never heard of them will be better prepared when meeting a recruiting member and on guard.
Insisting that they are a Church really isn't fair to the other religions humanity knows. Nevermind they use a name with "church" in it (not in Israel..!). AFAIK Scientology is a company run by greedy, manipulative lunatics for sheer profit.
The weak minded and gullible are indoctrinated and *scammed* (which is an important point) by their people.
Come to think of it.. it is actually hard to draw a line what a church is. In the old times the christian Church scammed its members aswell (and banished its non-members). Scientologists are, as it seems, prohibitively aggressive.
Fight for your digital freedom, join the EFF *now*: http://www.eff.org/support/
Screw Ebay. They just went to craigslist.
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/ Including how to make your own!
Can someone with more humor than yours truly rewrite this starring CowboyNeal? WWCND?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
And I'm sure others will too.
Perhaps if ebay knows we are watching, they'll behave better.
About 10 years ago I came across some plans for one of these emeter things. It was really simple to build. I had all the parts I needed in my scrap electronics bins. Every thing except the soup cans. I had to use beer cans.
First order was to empty the beer cans. I decided to empty a few more just in case. It got a little fuzzy after that. I think it worked. I found it the next morning, the needle was stuck between inebriated and tanked.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
Cut the cord and worship your full-of-power ghod!
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I'd guess trademark applies to the words "e-meter" "electrometer" or "Church of Scientology"
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Yes, it's an inconvenience... one of many brought to you by the DMCA. It's no different from any other takedown notice procedure, except perhaps in that it automates (? not specified) a process that would have happened anyway, almost as quickly, at great expense to eBay.
Your brain is not a computer.
For those saying that we should boycott eBay: Don't bother... It will have almost zero effect, and only indirectly attacks the Church of Scientology.
A better plan is to fight fire with fire: Create new eBay ids and just flood the place with sales of E-meters and anti-Scientology stuff. Anything you can think of. The assholes monitoring the eBay database will see that, and you're more likely to get the attention of CoS, eBay, the news media, and (hopefully) legislators.
But don't stop there... post E-meters for sale in every city on Craigslist. Use the local scientology office's phone number for the posting.
Be creative! But always go directly after CoS!
Mahayana, to be specific....
OM-MA-NI-PAD-ME-HUM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantra
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
A sect? I consider them organized crime.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
When he had his intergalactic vision of the extreme extreme past, he misinterpreted the equation for wavelength of c/nu as an unstoppable evil alien force. Nothing like having your mind blank out when all you have is the frequency of an EM wave and you need to convert to wavelength... whoever made the time machine and is fucking with L.Ron's past head, can you please call him again and clear this shit up.
:-)
And I totally need to make "i-Meters" and sell them on eBay to curious Scientologists under the company name Pseudology Inc. I promise plenty of blinkenlights and sounds. The machine needs to make a tone that would imply doubtfulness when someone is possibly lying, almost like a "hrmmmmmm" sound. Maybe a little LCD with a smiley face that changes expressions as well just to be over-the-top, or like an electronic slot machine that rolls the wheels each time you take a reading. "Cherry... Cherry... awww Lemon - You're lying!!!"
I should really get more sleep.
as far as i am concerned you all have way too much power and are responsible for every war there has ever been
Cold War. Stalin says hi.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Fellow /.'ers - Those of you who are getting pissed off with this cult and its numerous abuses of human rights, free speech and the legal system; join us on the streets of the major cities around the world this March 15th for a second global protest against the Scientology organization.
/.'ers are both an intelligent and cynical bunch, and you have no need to take my word for any of these claims. Do your own research, Google "Operation Freakout", "Operation Snow White", "Lisa McPherson", "Noah Lottick", "Scientology Fair Game Policy", "L Ron Hubbard", "R2-45", "Tom Cruise Missile" and most importantly, check out Enturbulation.org to see what this movement is all about and how you can help.
The February 10th global protests were a huge success that has spawned hundreds of videos and news articles, and the next round has the potential to be an order of magnitude better. Take a stand with us and help us do something, anything, about this criminal organization... an organization that has bullied and lied its way to tax exemption status (that many of us here directly fund with our tax dollars), despite obviously being a ruthless business empire. An organization that has attempted to silence any and all critics with litigation, harassment and physical violence. An organization that is visibly gaining a foot hold in major media outlets and internet sites to wield toward its own nefarious ends.
We have made a huge difference already, and will continue to do so. But the Church of Scientology is no cake walk in the tea park, we need all the help we can get. As much as we all love sitting around slamming Ballmer, bitching about monolithic kernel architecture and regurgitating ObSimpsons quotes - this is an golden opportunity to actually do something about a real and present evil in our society.
Rise up and take action. You will not stand alone.
That sounds quite a bit like some churches I've gone to. And seen on TV.
According to ebay, like others mentioned in this article, they were given the same access as any other manufacturer, a fast track to Vero so they can get items removed quickly, but it still has to go through Vero. But this isn't to stop the sale of used e-meters most likely, it's to stop the sale of FAKE e-meters, since Scientology has patents on all their bogus devices (http://home.snafu.de/tilman/prolinks/patents.html). Ebay will allows remove listings for unauthorized replica's, it's their policy.
Think about the South Park episode that went through the entire theology of the CoS, with a big blinking sign that read "This is what Scientologists actually believe" over the animation. That was even more effective than the "Dum Dum Dum Dum Dum" song refrain about the Mormons, all the more so since there was no attempt at all at the end of the episode to paint actual CoS members as decent human beings, unlike the Mormon episode.
Laugh at them.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
In that case, never mind. It's much more likely that you executed a denial of service attack on your *own* machine than on eBay. I mean, you do know that Firefox has an upper limit on how many connections it will actually open at the same time, right? (Go to about:config and filter for "connect.") All other connections are just placed in a queue until Firefox has an available slot. The slowdown was entirely on your own machine and LAN.
I mean, honestly... Did you really think that you were being some sort of 1337 super-hax0r by using *one* machine on a single home or school connection to bog down one of the largest e-commerce sites on the planet?
(Oh, also, your proposed Million Loser March is more likely to DoS your proxy service than eBay itself.) The law's tried it before anyways. I run rings around them every time, simpyly because most judges aren't smart enough to know what they're trying to charge me for. Sure thing, kid. Keep saying things like that in a public forum. We're all in awe of your brilliance and eagerly await to see the way in which your intellect would dazzle the courtroom.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Although I think that money trumps all. We should get rid of money, because it's nothing more than a means for the minority to control the majority.
[This comment removed due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International]
no, it's a sect, a split from the Church of "Astounding Stories".
How long before this so called church can log into Slashdot and delete stories about themselves?
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
I live in Sweden. We're sort of secularized and seeing religious evangelists on TV (except perhaps fiction) is very uncommon. I must confess I haven't been to church in 18 years.. and by then I was a kid.
My last trip to New York offered me new insight on this though. While changing channels I saw a fair deal of (weird) christian stuff.
Fight for your digital freedom, join the EFF *now*: http://www.eff.org/support/
If you want a good laugh, these 2 sites offer a run down on their beliefs:
http://www.xenu.net/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/index2.html
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
If I recall correctly, it is outlawed as a sect in at least one european country (Germany)
Dear eBay,
Get some balls.
Sincerely,
Me
I hear they almost blocked the release of KDE 4.0 - apparently the felt it was really Theta quality software.
Some settling may occur during posting.
Did they change their name?
I would suggest "Not So Immaculate Mary"... shades of Apple renaming "Sagan" to "BHA"?
-- Terry
Padme yum? I can't disagree.
At the bottom of the
This is the same thing that eBay has been doing since they killed my auctions in 1998.
/.
You see, Microsoft wanted to engage in illegal price fixing, and killed my auctions reselling copies of Microsoft software that I had won as door prizes.
I had never agreed to a license agreement, so I was not bound by it, but eBay still allowed Microsoft to kill my auctions.
It was only after I won my small-claims lawsuit against eBay for breech of contract, and another small claims court suit against Microsoft for slander that I got another eBay account. That's why my account says "since 1999."
Anyway, great job hopping on this story 9 years later,
Andy
And people say geeks have no knowledge of sects.
eBay isn't sliding into the pit -- it IS the #1 festering, stinking cesspit on the Internet. I hope that Scientology and other VeRO users abuse the everliving shit out of the system, convincing people to finally throw up their hands and go somewhere else, and VeRO promises not to disappoint.
C'mon - who else is IN scientology except for celeb's and bored rich people pining away for fun exclusivity of the old mystery religions of 2000 years ago.
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
What is this 'force' you speak of?
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
Don't forget Skype, and the blase attitude about fraud that has been there since pretty much the beginning.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Correct.
And things like rising from an untimely death after being nailed to a cross (or tree) three days after dying (and then celebrating), having a last supper, being born of a virgin, being the son of a god, etc... were all prevalent beliefs of pagan mythology at the time of and well before Jesus. A guy who had these "myths" thrown upon his name decades after he was dead in order to start a religion.
People forget that the history of most religions are far more "earth-bound" than they like to realize...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
An E-Meter is no match for the "Church of Jobs" iMeter!
It's time for an eBay competitor.
Why isn't there a place to sell everything eBay refuses to sell? Someone ought to be able to make a fair living with such a site.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Can we just move over to Craigslist. Sure, it's not ideal, but It'll do in a pinch.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Someone should volunteer to try to get an auction deleted by the CoS and see if you get the pedo-pamphlets in your street.
"Anonymous could not immediately be reached for further comment." - International Business Times
Patent Expired - the public owns it now. Game Over Xenu
It's a case for the FTC and courts. Ebay and COS have no legal right to prohibit resale of COS paraphernalia.
If unfamiliar: Firt-sale doctrine
Where in the world do you live? Vatican City? I have not heard of any such thing, and I know of numerous bands across the world with far more inflammatory names than the hardly eyebrow raising one you have stated.
Try some choice ones such as: Impaled Nazarene, Bastard Christ, Christian Epidemic, Dead Christ Cult, and so on. Many more to be found on this list. And these are just names, nevermind song titles and lyrics.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
Unsupported, eh? You're an idiot. These are very, very well-known.
If you don't believe it, do some research. A quick google search reveals these links to be informative:
http://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-Other-Essays-Freethought-Library/dp/0879758333
http://web.archive.org/web/20000520040242/http://www.wels.net/sab/text/qa/qa15.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20021019195356/http://www.worldmissions.org/Clipper/Holidays/EasterAndAsherah.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm
...But are they really sure there is no foul play ? We are speaking of the CoS after all, with operation snow white and many other bad stuff.
If I want to know about Christianity, I can buy a Bible. I could even get free bibles if I know where to look. I could find a million different people preaching about the religion. I could find people who would be head over heals to go in depth about their beliefs for absolutley no money. I could sell a Bible on eBay and the pope isn't going to delete it. On the other hand, Scientology offers nothing except a promise of enlightment for a large sum of money. They don't follow through and have so much against them legally and morally that it is sophomoric to compare them to a real religion. Say what you want about religion, but a true religion is open (like most major religions) and a cult is closed (like Scientology). Taking jabs at mainstream religion is childish and ignores the real issues. And finally, Christianity's largest atrocities occured centuries ago, the stuff Scientology has done is completely out of place for the 20th and 21st century. I'm not trying to defend Christianity out of zealotry (I do not practice Christianity or Judaism, the two religions of my parents, although I do believe in God), I'm defending it because in this day and age it is a respectful religion to follow and one that isn't based around money, crime and tax breaks. Sure, one may not agree with some views but those views are open book. Scientology won't tell you their views because they are idiotic. All the stuff we know about Xenu is from leaks. Scientology never volunteered that information, and for a good reason. Until you are brainwashed, it sounds like pure BS.
What law is being broken by the sale of e-meters?
Its like if Disney asked eBay to stop people selling second hand Disney DVDs so they can continue to rape consumers with the price they charge for new DVDs of the same content.
And even if the law is being broken somehow, why should ebay give this so-called "church" any greater access than what they give to other people. Do they give Disney direct access to cancel auctions of pirate Disney DVDs? Do they give Gucci direct access to cancel auctions of fake Gucci stuff? Do they give Microsoft direct access to cancel auctions of OEM software? As far as I know, no they dont. So why should this "church" get such powers? (obviously if other members of the VeRO program do get such powers, then thats different)
In that case, never mind. It's much more likely that you executed a denial of service attack on your *own* machine than on eBay. I mean, you do know that Firefox has an upper limit on how many connections it will actually open at the same time, right? (Go to about:config and filter for "connect.") All other connections are just placed in a queue until Firefox has an available slot. The slowdown was entirely on your own machine and LAN.
It is possible that eBay does some kind of distributed balancing based on IP or MAC, in which case he could, *may*be, have slowed one particular eBay server that happened to be assigned to his IP or MAC. But your scenario is much more likely... did he verify it was "DOSed" with a neutral third party on a different ISP?
Comment of the year
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/
... or better yet, sell them as parodies of e-meters!!
Now everyone go make your own knock-off. Call it a p-meter, or a g-meter, or a niceta-meter and sell them as alternatives to e-meters
wait. let me re-state this in slashdot-ese
1. obtain e-meter schematics from web
2. build clone or parody e-meter
3. sell them on ebay
4. profit!!!
I was an eBay buyer and seller since 1999. 100% positive feedback rating with over 140 successful transactions despite 2 or 3 minor bumps. I've stuck with them despite the fee increases, despite the PayPal crap, despite everything. The recent fee hikes and the removal of the ability of sellers to post negative feedback had me seriously questioning my continued presence on the site. This blatant violation of the first sale doctrine and handing over of such vast amounts of power to a ruthless cult have proven to be the last straw. A few minutes after reading this article I initiated the process to cancel my eBay account and deleted my eBay bookmark. I wanted to leave them specific reasons why I was leaving but they didn't even give me the option. All they had was a few stupid drop down menus that gave me some bs about the rules being there to make it "fair" for both buyers and sellers after I clicked ok.
Not noteable, IMO a rubbish article.
You do realize the only way E-Bay could hire the platoons of lawyers and programmers it would take to enforce rights compliance in a nonlazy would be to take it out of user fees, right?
I mean, E-Bay like all of us doesn't know where the magic money tree is, that you merely shake to get plenty of cash to Do What's Right.
I'm guessing E-Bay made a simple calculation:
(1) Do our users want to pay the fees needed for a top-notch rights compliance program?
(2) Uh, no!
(3) OK, let's roll out the cheapest alternative we can.
When (2) changes, so will (3), and not before.
Their company, their rules. If you find this objectionable (and, certainly I do) then stop doing business on or with eBay.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Well, not quite a dupe, but they've been at this for years.
what makes you think a church can't sue? While certainly a religion can't sue, because a religion has no corporeal body, a church which practices a religion does have a corporeal existence and can sue. Why EBay has given CoS the ability to cancel any auction, is beyond me, but EBay's always been strange, and keeps getting stranger, but maybe EBay got ...
<voice class:Brando>
an offer they couldn't refuse
</voice>.
sounds like someone high up in e-bay's hierarchy is a scientologist.
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
"Imagine if the makers of the other products out there followed suit. You would not be able to purchase second hand goods. Only directly from the original outlet. Kinda stifles the economy since the majority of vehicles out there are purchased as used items. Just one example but it would have a very bad impact if this method of controlling profit spreads."
Which is what makes the creation of such a program so foolish on eBay's part. At some point, enough companies could do just that... up to the point that it prevents eBay itself from being able to function at all. eBay's entire business model is making commission on sales of after market items. If all these after market items sold through eBay everyday simply vanished, eBay would be screwed.
And, even if they corrected the problem by removing the VeRO program from their service, eBay would just end up back where they started, ielding every auction complaint on a case by case basis. By then though, buyer and seller confidence in eBay's services will have dropped so far that eBay might not even be able to convince sellers to use their site even by making all listings free globally.
eBay, say hello to the breaking point of your dot com bubble.
8==8 Bones 8==8
If you have enough people who mention the e-meter and Scientology in their eBay post (even if it some complicated way of saying "this is not an Scientologist e-meter" so it is difficult to parse out the bad from the good), then their monitors will be flooded with alerts. If they don't check each one by hand, then eBay will be flooded - in which case, they'll probably toss the Scientologists out of the program for not doing their due diligence.
Muahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Church of Scientology: "NO, once again, we do not allow the resale of our e-meters OR our dehydrated water on ebay!"
The summary states that "The Church of Scientology can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision under the VeRO program," but even according to the linked article this is not the case. The removals are taking place through the VeRO program, they're just contending that the removals are frivolous. As if that weren't enough, the title states that Scientology has been given direct access to the database. Going from frivolous removals to unfettered access to eBay's DB is a pretty ridiculous leap, and seems disengenous on the part of the original poster.
Having once worked at eBay (I quit in late '07) in association with people on the VeRO team, I can tell you that direct access to the DB is not required to get an item off the site very quickly; it is quite easy for rights-holders to get items they claim to be infringing removed... all it takes is a single qualifying complaint (per item while I was there, but they may allow lists now).
A couple of notes about VeRO compaints, however:
1- The complaint is made under penalty of perjury, which creates some potential for liability for frivolous or incorrect complaints on the part of the complainant (potentially difficult to take legal action on, but present).
2- It is a complaint of IP (Intellectual Property) infringement, not simply copyright infringement. That's why items that are sold from an organization for a specific use, and whose resale is legally limited, can be said to infringe if they are being used/sold in a way inconsistent with the IP owner's wishes.
3- There is an appeals process, and the item can potentially get put back on the site.
For an overview of the process, you can go to this page eBay provides to explain it: http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/vero-rights-owner.html
If you'd like to see a copy of the notice that VeRO members (registered IP owners) must send to get things removed, then download this PDF (also linked from the priorly mentioned page): http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/NOCI1.pdf
It would be better for everyone if they didn't allow ANY of this garbage to be sold on ebay.
Why do companies act in such a shockingly retarded fashion?
I'm baffled...
There must be alot of dissalusioned ex members in Sydney cause we get them in our second hand store all the time. Lots of fun to play with the trick being to adjust your squeeze while looking at the meter. From what i can tell its just a fancy galvanic skin response meter that is heighly tunable. If you want to use it semi seriously you could see your reaction to questions you ask yourself, self diagnosis with a bit of force feedback. If you want to have fun with the poor meter drivers on open days that they have, think of horrible things when they ask you about your relationship with your kids, and nice things.. etc. Either way its an excellent device for practicing lying and therefor acting, no wonder TC and JT are into it. We have 1 or 2 regular buyers who get them all, no questions asked. Could be higher ups who dont want to make a fuss.
"Persistance is Fertile" - Me. I can quote myself if I want to.
Heh. My auction page views actually have skyrocketed from 5 to 100 in just a few hours. Search for "E-meter"; I'm the one selling comic books.
I hope they were properly notarized.
Ebay Brown races up to the football, as Lucy Scientology holds it and smiles serenely.....
I suppose banning the sale of thermonuclear weapons on eBay is next . . .
*sigh*
One by one, our freedoms are being whittled away.
For now, though, I can still list:
eBay #127467:
One W-87 warhead, good condition. May 1987 production. Canned sealed secondary. A few moving 'dings' on the casing. Nominal yield is 300 kilotons; [use the enriched U-235 sleeve (see eBay #127468) if you want 475 kilotons.]
The RV (re-entry vehicle) is in good condition as well, with that nifty carbon-fabric nose, a new contact sensor, a carbon phenolic heatshield, and a vintage S-band antenna!
Comes with a color 235 page manual, and is select-fusable for high, medium, or low altitude
airburst, surface proximity airburst, or surface contact burst. Has usual category-F PAL; play "guess the combo" with your friends!
This is truly the item for the Cold War collector. Not some recycled 50 Megaton Russian junk that's been sold around twenty countries or a huge Mark 28 that you have to keep in the garage. This is a new production gadget in its original colors! Comes with original cardboard packing!
Just the thing for the collector! Looks great over the fireplace!
thanks,
Dave
This is why I've been down on ebay for several years now--every since I tried to sell my Gameboy advance programmer. And it was deleted.
Fuck ebay, they suck worse every year, anyway. They've never had any notion of business ethics, ironically.
expandfairuse.org
>> What *I* really don't get is why people don't just call Scientology for what it is: a sect. That way people who never
>> heard of them will be better prepared when meeting a recruiting member and on guard.
Isn't the difference between a sect and a religion pretty much the quality of your backstory? As they go, those CoS nutjobs... err... folks have one better than most other sects. It's got drama, action and intrigue... who ever said L. Ron was a crappy writer?
quality of backstory += number of belivers += perceived legitmacy
This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
A cult is the church down the road from your church.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
Attacking eBay won't do any good, and it's just plain stupid. Everyone who cares enough to see this through wants it done peacefully and legally. Honestly, suggesting that people attack EBay with DOS attacks suggests you are simply a CoS plant intended to give Anonymous a bad name.
The ends do not justify the means, for the means determine the end.
I just left a long message for ebay explaining why I will no longer be doing business with them. The is something fishy going on between them and the church of scientology. From what I have rea previouslu, I thought ebay had some balls. I am the kind that votes with my wallet, and ebay won't be getting any more of my hard earned money, ever. Neither will paypal or skype. I am not sure why I thought my personal information was safe with ebay to begin with, but after what I read about the VeRO program, it is clear to me that the church can browse the ebay client list at will. IT would have made more sense for ebay to keep quiet about their relationship with the church. In fact the VeRO program in general bothers me a lot. If a copyright holder brought a suit against someone, they could perform discovery (IANABCL) and get what they needed if a judge agreed. Leaving the judge out of it, and giving the keys to the filing cabinet to the church makes it too easy for abuse to occur.
Actually, as far as I can tell, pretty much anyone who claims to be a "content owner" ("imaginary propertyholders"?) can cancel any auction they deem not kosher, and there's pretty much not a damn thing you can do about it. Example: my wife bought some training materials from eBay. Later, she went to sell them, also on eBay. The auction was canceled by the manufacturers of the materials on the grounds that they don't allow anyone to resell the materials. Never mind that my wife was under no obligation nor contract with them; never mind that she had bought the things the exact same way without trouble. No, they stepped in and said no and no amount of arguing with eBay to the contrary nor facts relevant to the case would change the situation.
She wound up selling them somewhere else.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
On not entirely unrelated note:
Ebay very recently introduced transaction fees in Poland.
There would be nothing special about that if it had a monopolist position here, but it does not, by far.
THE auction service for Poland is Allegro.pl, with easily nearly 90% of the market. Then there was Swistak.pl and then Ebay. And then two theme-specific collectibles sites. That's the market. All the "small players" compete with Allegro by being free of charge.
With introduction of the fees the number of auctions on Ebay dropped from 400,000 to 80,000...
why allegedly? Because if you seek ANYTHING other than 'e-book, shippable only in electronic from, world-wide' from countries outside Poland, you get only about 8000 auctions, many of them same item in multiple categories.
Yeah, 8,000 auctions vs 3,700,000 on Allegro. 8,000 from 400,000. There have been some management changes in ebay, and they were for the worse.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Are you unhappy? Are you not close enough to Xenu?
*** NOW *** Add 1nches to your 3. Your 3-tool will amaze all your friends.
Buy here. Bue now! It's the genuine stuff, but a lot cheaper.
Privacy is terrorism.
About Jesus, Buddah and more, I recommend watching the intelligent movie The man from Earth.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
I'm removing Skype and I'm never using that thing again. To think that a software belonging to a compagny associated with scientology have read my firefox profile... brrr
For me, this sounds like a scientology member payed by ebay! Bad karma for ebay...
I can just imagine a modern day equivalent:
...
Zealot: Hey Hubbard, check this out...
Hubbard: What is it?
Zealot: It's a new device, I call it the e-meter!
Hubbard: Whats-it-do daddy-o?
Zealot: Well, it's actually a modified client for a popular bandwidth test except this one measures your 'theaton level'! Hehe.
Hubbard: Wow! We can just send this client out as a world-wide spam-blanket and no more need for street canvasing! We'll be rich, rich, RICH!
Zealot: Mwuhah... oh no! I've just thought of a problem.
Hubbard: Oh? What's that? People won't be convinced by their super-high theaton level and immediately sign up for our brochure? We won't be able to stop re-distribution of beta versions on ebay? We can't use them to zap unbelievers into submission with? You look positively deflated my friend...
Zealot: Mmmm, no.... half of America is on Comcast...
Hubbard: Haha! Fear not my little novice, haven't you heard of PowerBoost?
Zealot: Mwuhahahaa...
Hubbard: Mwuhahahaa...
Zealot: Mwuhahahaa...
Hubbard: Mwuhahahaa...
Ebay could be cooperating with Scientologists for tow reasons. Legal threats or the promise of rewards in later lives. These are about all that scientology gives
I read somewhere that the e-meter displays a sticker reading "For Religious Use Only", which must be my favourite stupid disclaimer of all times.
Theologians can pursuade themselves of anything. Anyone who can worship
a trinity and insists that his religion is a monotheism can believe
anything -- just give him time to rationalize it.
Robert A. Heinlein, JOB: A Comedy of Justice
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Allow me to speak from experience - VERO is pretty much useless as a method for evil companies to enforce despotic control over the masses. In terms of furthering my nefarious plans for World Domination, it's been a total bust.
EBay hosts many auctions of bootlegs of many of the films (anime, samurai stuff) for which my company, AnimEigo, is the US licensor (turning you all into malleable Otaku will definitely get me closer to the aforementioned end-state of World Domination). At one point, we tried using VERO to cancel these auctions. It was a total waste of time.
1) After being VERO'd, the bootleg vendor would simply put up another auction. It was a game of whack-a-mole, and they had more time to play than I did. The time I wasted -- I could have spent it on the Orbital Mind Control Lasers.
2) The serious bootleg vendors would simply contest the VERO. At which point the rights-holder has to provide documentation that demonstrates that the property infringes their rights. And that, folks, takes time and money -- and I need that money, do you guys have any idea how expensive it is to build and maintain a Secret Lair?
So my advice to people who want to sell E-Meters is to contest the VERO; it requires only 10 minutes of your time filling out a form and faxing it off, and will cost the COS a considerable amount of money to take to the next step. Now, they may decide that it's worth it to them to do that, but hey, that's money they can't spend on other things - and keep in mind that for them, World Domination is a serious business, not just a hobby like it is for me.
The real point of VERO is to protect eBay from lawsuits by rights-holders.
"World Domination - a fun, family activity"
Here is a nice way to force people to buy from you. Just forbid the sell of second hand music. I think everybody should join. That way we might get some new stupid law that preventets the preventing of selling of shit that *I* own.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I also find it interesting how at least 90% (and I'm being generous here) of the stuff I have read online or in the media about Scientology doesn't even resemble what Scientology really is, and I have been a member for about 17 years now.
I am sorry for you my friend. I would suggest you see the story of people who where in Scientology for more than 20 years and were even "OT7" (whatever that means). Of course, I do not know if your church allows you to see such videos. (I would not count on that.. In fact i am surprised that your CoS nanny filter allows you to get into slashdot.
Do not get me wrong, I have nothing about the Scientology religion, it is the "church" the one I think is bad. Similarly to how the Catholic church was bad some years ago (Spanish Incquisition). I know there are groups of people that follow the same beliefs as Scientologists, but they cannot call themselves Scientologists because they would get sued (WTF?).
And, lastly, just for curiosity, do you *really* believe in Xenu and all those things described in OT3 ?
Hope you the best! And I really hope you remember my post in some 10 years when you get out of Scientology and look back at all the years you wasted.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
OR he is German like myself and has fallen for a pair of "false friends", words sounding similar in English and German, but meaning diffferent things. The German word for "cult" would be "Sekte", wich could account for such a mistake. Much more often cited by English teachers is the difference between "become" and the German "bekommen", wich would translate to "get", whereas "come" and "kommen" are the same.
The CoS is a nothing more than a disinformation campaign by people opposed to the Galactic rule of Xenu.
They use blatant lies about Xenu to build thier base up.
The aliens Xenu sent to their firey doom weren't just ordinary citizens, they were Galactic Welfare recipients and they were a complete and total drain on the Galactic Tax system. These Aliens were given several chances to get off the welfare system and were all able to work. Xenu had them gathered up and sent to processing, they downloaded their minds into a giant computer where they could spend their eternity living off free Galactic government cheese. But what to do with their bodies? Well Xenu checked and some life bearing planets were facing peril in that they were losing carbon in their biospheres, one such planet Earth needed extra carbon, so they dropped off the brain dead bodies in volcaoes so that any any alien microbes would be sterilized and the carbon would enter the air and thus the carbon cycle. Xenu is so kind to think of us!
The Galactic Communist party was pissed off because their lost a great deal of their voting base (the welfare recipients). Since citizens who have been virtialized only have 1/4 of a vote. So they have agents spreading lies so when Earth joins the Galactic government there are seeds of mistrust against the duly elected Galactic President Xenu who has won in landslide victory after landslide victory and is now in his 1,345,236th term in office. LRH was a recruited by an agent to spread mistrust of Xenu.
It's all down to politics folks.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
Please resell them on that other auction site. There still is one, isn't there?
In Catholic countries often Protestants are referred to as sects.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And while the serious atrocities committed in the name of Christianity were mostly a while ago, they were also a heck of a lot more serious than anything Scientology has achieved (not because Scientology is nice, but because it doesn't control any Countries yet).
Frankly, unless you start out believing it, the Christianity stuff sounds like pure BS too. Christianity just has a big enough critical mass that a large population actually is brought up believing it.
Do note that when you look at the practical end result; the actual ways to behave toward ones fellow human beings that many Christians get out of their religion, it's great: they're nice people, and thus drawn to traditions that tell them it's good to be nice. Performing the same analysis on Scientology yields considerably more troubling and scary results.
But it's not because their ideas are any less weird. They both believe wacky things that can be used to justify whatever behavior you want.
They say you can't sell the meters themselves online, but that probably doesn't cover selling the schematics online.
OT III
[Operating Thetan Level 3]
BODY THETANS
by L. Ron Hubbard
The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet - 178 billion on average) by mass implanting..
He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken - in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged".
His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc was placed in the unplants. When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert.
The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development. One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.
In December 1967 1 know someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.
One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.
One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing.
You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.
Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error.
Good luck.
* * *
For the purpose of clarity, by BODY THETAN is meant a thetan who is stuck to another thetan or body but is not in control.
A THETAN is, of course, a Scientology word using the Greek theta which was the Greek symbol for thought or life. An individual being such as a man is a thetan, he is not a body and he does not think because he has a brain.
A CLUSTER is a group of body thetans crushed or hold together by some mutual bad experience.
----------
Character of Body Thetans
Body Thetans are just Thetans. When you get rid of one he goes off and possibly squares around, picks up a body or admires daisies. He is in fact a sort of cleared Being. He cannot fail to eventually, if not at once, regain many abilities. Many have been asleep for the last 75,000,000 years. A body Thetan responds to any process any Thetan responds to.
Some body Thetans are suppressive. A suppressive is out of valence in R6. He is in valence in Incident I almost always.
One can't run a human being on these two incidents since human beings are composites and would not be able to run the lot. Aside from that, non-clears are way below awareness required to even find these Incidents.
Huge amounts of charge have already been removed from the case and the body thetans by Clearing and OT I and OT II to say nothing of engrams and lower grades.
Awareness is proportional to the charge removed from the case.
Although a human is a composite being there is only one I (that is you) who runs things.
Body thetans just hold one back.
You will continue to be you. You, inside, can of course separate out body thetans and so solo auditing is the answer. How good do you have to be to run body thetans off? Well, if you didn't skip your grades, Clearing and OT II particularly, you. should be able to'command body thetans easily.
* * *
Incident II is over 36 days long. Capture on other planets was weeks or months before the implant. Tho
You can read the Scientologist religious document concerning Jesus here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/index2.html
Short version: They call him a pedophile with a nasty temper.
great :-( ... thanks for attracting their attention ... now they're going to send the flying polyps after me.
yeah according to ebays thing on this, there are 3 things you have to do to keep from being delisted by a copyright holder. those are:
a. Only list authentic items
b. Always use my own pictures and my own item description
c. Never sell bootleg copies of software, music, movies, or video games
source: http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/verotutorial/q13.html
so it appears they do overstep the line and it just needs brought to ebays attention. you cant prevent people from reselling your crap except in certian situations. this isnt one of them. indeed.
The science fiction cult of scientology is a dangerous one at that. Yes, it's ok to make fun of religion. "When is Jesus Going to Bring In the Porkchops?" ...A title by George Carlin, a fellow of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. L. Ron Hubbards book, "Dianetics", is a science fiction book which is a religous bible that was created far in the future but time
travel into past to be found by the first of Christ Sceintists. BALONEY! What fools and nitwits! I guess it is bad as pie in the sky or the Great Sphagetti Monster. These people need to be deprogrammed.
When the money started to come in' Hubbard didn't say a word about his intentions. Could you
blame him? While he was busy cha-chaing to the bank the supposed scientists were making money hand over foot. No one would state that this was just a cheap dime science fiction novel... So there up there with the mad brothers (Akmad, Momad, and Mohammad). the baptist evangelicals (with their left behind books, and I always thought they were right behinds), and the snake charmers and oil salesmen.
Jesus Christ in a hand basket with a penis pump attached to him. Where do these people get off
The science fiction cult of scientology is a dangerous one at that. Yes, it's ok to make fun of religion. "When is Jesus Going to Bring In the Porkchops?" ...A title by George Carlin, a fellow of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. L. Ron Hubbards book, "Dianetics", is a science fiction book which is a religous bible that was created far in the future but time
travel into past to be found by the first of Christ Sceintists. BALONEY! What fools and nitwits! I guess it is bad as pie in the sky or the Great Sphagetti Monster. These people need to be deprogrammed.
When the money started to come in Hubbard didn't say a word about his intentions. Could you
blame him? While he was busy cha-chaing to the bank the supposed scientists were making money hand over foot. No one would state that this was just a cheap dime science fiction novel... So there up there with the mad brothers (Akmad, Momad, and Mohammad). the baptist evangelicals (with their left behind books, and I always thought they were right behinds), and the snake charmers and oil salesmen.
Jesus Christ in a hand basket with a penis pump attached to him. Where do these people get off
Well keep in mind, as well that the major atrocities commited by the church were at a time when the Bible was in Latin and people couldn't read for the most part. Thus, it was a dark age of the religion because the word wasn't being spread. Nowadays, we don't have Christians doing that type of thing because you read the Bible or have it read and explained to you. The religion holds no secrets. This isn't a debate of whose beliefs are better. It's a debate of what makes a cult different from religion. Finally, something that is less empirical but holds true is that a religion, such as Christianity, is followed by true believers and led by them too. Somehow I doubt the leaders of Scienotology believe what they preach. This of course isn't proof per se, but assuming you subscribe to that line of thought already, it's just another way to justify the difference.
Yeah, but even if you read the Bible yourself (and believe it contains some thing higher that an assortment of random stories and prejudices from iron age nomads), you've still got to decide for yourself whether to concentrate on the bits about "Love thy neighbor" bits or the bits about killing everyone in the enemy city, even the babies.
"Somehow I doubt the leaders of Scienotology believe what they preach."
Unclear. Regarding the original leaders, I'm inclined to agree with you; but such a top core of people who understand it's a scam must necessarily be a very small group, and they've been dying off. So as time goes on one expects more leaders will be drawn from actual believers. On the other hand, I'm not convinced very many followers of mainstream religions really believe all the wacky stuff they're supposed to.
But frankly, trying to distinguish cult/religion by such criteria strikes me as academic and ultimately pointless. By my reckoning, there's no fundamental difference. They all believe absurdities. But I try not to judge people too harshly just on that basis, because most of the world believes one absurd thing or another. I try to judge them by what they do. As it was put, um, *somewhere*, "You shall know them by their works"...
When Christians do good things and give the credit to God, I fault them for excessive humility. This is uniquely easy to forgive.
When people try to tell me how to live my life, or take money from the vulnerable, etc. I don't much care what stupid idea inspired them.
A sect is a sect of something. Scientology is one man claiming he has all the answers. I suffer from inherited depression. Scientology claims it has the answer to depression - but it is in the book, and I have to buy the book. I have seen enough cock-and-bull answers already to believe in it. The most recent is somebody who guarantees interpreting my own dreams (I don't have any) - if I buy the book. I know a fundraising motive when I see one.
Here in Australia, we had a troublesome reactionary politician. According to our then P.M., our Pacific neighbours suggested he take her out and shoot her. He replied that we don't do it that way here. If a country with those values on free speech has to ban something, it must be pretty evil.