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Customer Loses Xbox 360 Artwork During Repair

An anonymous reader writes "The Consumerist is reporting that one unlucky individual had to send his Xbox 360 in for repairs. The catch is he had spent a great deal of time getting signatures and artwork on the outside of the console from notable members of the gaming industry. He specifically asked and even sent a letter along with his console requesting that the outside of the case be returned intact. When he got it back it was once again, plain white. Assuming that this is a genuine claim, regardless of the circumstances surrounding the missing/cleaned case Microsoft should at least apologize to the guy."

330 comments

  1. He's an idiot by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the signatures on the outside of the box were so valuable, he should have bought a brand new XBox rather than run the risk of having the "valuable" one stolen, damaged, or defaced.

    As for the concept behind getting signatures in the first place, it may be cool to get XBox developers to sign an XBox, but what's the point of getting "notable members of the gaming industry" to sign a product that has a guaranteed maximum lifespan? Wouldn't taking a polaroid and having them sign that be a better way to preserve those memories?

    1. Re:He's an idiot by three333 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The "notable members of the gaming industry" presumably have a guaranteed maximum lifespan as well (medical advances not withstanding).

      Besides, haven't polaroid stopped selling their instant cameras/film now?

      --
      Three is my favourite number
    2. Re:He's an idiot by ilikepi314 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To me, an XBox is the equivalent of an engineer's "work of art". I see nothing wrong with getting authors to sign their books (paper doesn't last forever), or artists to sign their paintings (the paint does all sorts of nasty things over time), musicians sign CDs (don't let CDs near small children, or leave in sunlight), so the development team signing their final product (which is quite a marvel technologically, even if it may not be functional for 100 years) seems reasonable to me.

      Now, on the issue of whether he should have sent it or not, you're probably right in that he should have kept that one and bought a new one. But maybe he couldn't afford a new one at the moment and made an unwise decision.

    3. Re:He's an idiot by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Informative
    4. Re:He's an idiot by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The "notable members of the gaming industry" presumably have a guaranteed maximum lifespan as well (medical advances not withstanding).

      If you could go back in time and get the autograph of Leonardo da Vinci, would you have him scrawl it some paper or would you have him write it on a bale of hay? The value of an autograph is arguable, but the medium upon which it is recorded is important as well.

    5. Re:He's an idiot by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 0, Troll

      This story was on Digg yesterday and was the final straw in me giving up with that stinking cesspool of a site and deleting the bookmark. This is such a non-story. Does he honestly believe that those who refurbish these things will read letters etc...? It's no doubt a production line type affair, and anyone but this whiny little bitch would say "Wow, they cleaned it as well. Excellent service!" But no, this pissy little bitch had his stupid vandalised console (some of which was derogatory about the 360) cleaned and sees fit to whine and blog about it looking for a free handout from Microsoft.

      Get over yourself. I wonder if this guy had a plaster over a broken leg and had it signed if he'd be blogging about how the big nasty doctor removed it?

      And sorry, there ARE no notable members of the gaming community outside of Sid Meier, Will Wright and, possibly, Gabe Newell.

      It's an electrical device that'll be in the garbage in five years. It's not an autograph book. Honestly, this is one of the most asinine and pathetic "Wah wah, look at me, I've been wronged" stories I've ever read, and that category has a LOT of competition. Honestly, it's times like this I want to be able to reach through the screen, grab this whiny little bitch and shake them violently until they shut the fuck up.

      I realise this is going to be modded down as a troll, and I really don't give a shit. Bullshit stories like this make me fucking angry. I hope if he has to send his console back, they piss all over it before sending it back to the ungrateful little shit.

    6. Re:He's an idiot by Tristanjh · · Score: 5, Informative

      I found this comment on another sie reportingthe same story: All repairs and maint are done through a third party company, Jabil, in Renoysa, Mexico. They have a specific set of instructions that they follow assembly-line style, and one of the first steps in that is they scrub the unit down with rubbing alcohol and remove all stickers and so forth that are on it. Any letter with the console would have been disregarded since the workers don't speak English, and are much more concerned with keeping up with the mass amount of work to be done, because they can be fired very easily if they don't. Even in an unusual case like artwork and signatures, the workers have better job security just pushing it through like usual than stopping to ask.

    7. Re:He's an idiot by tsm_sf · · Score: 4, Funny

      and your comment makes a /. trifecta.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    8. Re:He's an idiot by nametaken · · Score: 3, Insightful

      what's the point of getting "notable members of the gaming industry" to sign a product that has a guaranteed maximum lifespan? Wouldn't taking a polaroid and having them sign that be a better way to preserve those memories?

      Seems a silly question. Let me ask you this, would you rather have an original Nintendo signed by the people who made Super Mario Bros., or a long-since faded polaroid picture of a Nintendo with scrawl covering the picture?

    9. Re:He's an idiot by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      would you have him scrawl it some paper or would you have him write it on a bale of hay?
      What?.. Also, presumably he wanted his valuable one repaired so it wouldn't just be a worthless hulk. It would have been a good idea never to have played it in the first place.
    10. Re:He's an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That's insightful? How about this? Microsoft Xbox encourages child abuse:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=511346&in_page_id=1811&ct=5

      Xbox fan pummelled toddler daughter to death after she knocked over his console ...
    11. Re:He's an idiot by FlyingGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude! Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
    12. Re:He's an idiot by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Xbox fan pummelled toddler daughter to death after she knocked over his console ...

      Darwin works in mysterious ways.

    13. Re:He's an idiot by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I'd have him autograph one of his inventions. You know, like his now-obsolete flying machine.

      Having an artist autograph their current chosen medium seems reasonable to me. Yes, the XBox 360 is going to be obsolete - but that won't mean that, retroactively, Red Vs Blue wasn't made on an XBox 360. That way you get both the autograph and a nice slice of history.

      "Yessiree, this is an actual autograph by one of the creative minds behind Red Vs Blue! And even better, you're looking at a real XBox 360, just like the one Red Vs Blue was made on!"

      Same argument goes for any game developer or designer, obviously.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    14. Re:He's an idiot by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's an interesting question.

      I actually have a signed copy of The C++ Programming Language as well as a signed Polaroid of me and Bjarne at an old tradeshow. I also have a signed polaroid of me with merlyn.

      The book is obsolete and deteriorating. The pictures look fine. The pictures are worth more to *me* than the signed book. Pictures can't be made obsolete because there is nothing in them that can be made obsolete.

    15. Re:He's an idiot by lena_10326 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The value of an autograph is arguable, but the medium upon which it is recorded is important as well.
      Plastics have a lifespan of several hundred years, which is considerably longer than the paper on which autographs are signed. Longer than acid-free archival paper as well.

      It's also longer than oil based paint used on the great paintings by the masters, which often sell for millions. Longer than the canvas used for those paintings as well.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    16. Re:He's an idiot by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Seems a silly question. Let me ask you this, would you rather have an original Nintendo signed by the people who made Super Mario Bros., or a long-since faded polaroid picture of a Nintendo with scrawl covering the picture?

      Given that I have polaroids nearly four decades old that are as good as new...
    17. Re:He's an idiot by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 1

      A "work of art" for one person may be garbage to someone else.

    18. Re:He's an idiot by 0kComputer · · Score: 0, Redundant

      It's no doubt a production line type affair, and anyone but this whiny little bitch would say "Wow, they cleaned it as well. Excellent service!" But no, this pissy little bitch had his stupid vandalised console (some of which was derogatory about the 360) cleaned and sees fit to whine and blog about it looking for a free handout from Microsoft.

      I agree with parent, this seems to be a production line type issue.

      --
      Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
      10.
    19. Re:He's an idiot by bluephone · · Score: 1

      There are oil based paintings many centuries old, and archival quality paper is designed to last at least a thousand years. We have papyrus scrolls several millennia old. Some plastics are thought to have similar life times.

      --
      jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
    20. Re:He's an idiot by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Engineering works of art don't break as often as an Xbox 360.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    21. Re:He's an idiot by dissy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      what's the point of getting "notable members of the gaming industry" to sign a product that has a guaranteed maximum lifespan? Wouldn't taking a polaroid and having them sign that be a better way to preserve those memories? Seems a silly question. Let me ask you this, would you rather have an original Nintendo signed by the people who made Super Mario Bros., or a long-since faded polaroid picture of a Nintendo with scrawl covering the picture? Good point for sure. I would want the real NES with signatures.

      However, I would also never ever mail that NES anywhere without the expectation that it will be lost forever. If it had any problems, I would buy a new one. The new one would be acceptable to mail in for repair, but not the signed collector one.

      Yes, MS fucked up big time for lying to this poor guy.
      However, while I wont go as far as to say he deserved it, he obviously did not care enough about his valued collector item to take care of it properly.

      This is just how it goes when you turn something into a collectors item like that.
      While MS deserves pretty much all of the blame for lying (claiming they could and would return the exact same unit intact) when that was not a promise they could keep, I just hope the guy turns this around into a positive and learns to take better care of his belongings.

      For the standard slashdot car example:
      There are a lot of people out there that enjoy buying older historic cars, restoring them, and possibly taking them to shows and what not.
      However the ones that care about their investment do not drive that historic car around all the time like it was their only vehicle. Doing so puts needless extra wear on it, which lowers its over all value.

    22. Re:He's an idiot by cskrat · · Score: 2, Informative

      I see $111.60 for ten packs of film (8-10 shots per pack) with a disclaimer regarding pending discontinuation.
      Yeah they still sell them, but only until stock runs out.

      --
      My God! It's full of eval()'s.
    23. Re:He's an idiot by lena_10326 · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are oil based paintings many centuries old
      All those paintings have been restored and are stored in museums with perfect atmospheric conditions under very low lighting. They are also never handled in the way an Xbox would be. Ever seen an oil painting from the 19th century? They are always filled with cracks. They crack, chip, and fall apart with time.

      Paper will last but it essentially turns to dust even when stored in perfect conditions. Quite a number of the dead sea scrolls could not be recovered because they were dust. An Xbox case will certainly last longer than 500 years given museum quality handling and storage.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    24. Re:He's an idiot by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Informative

      From TFA:

      When his XBOX finally died, he contacted Microsoft to make sure that he could send the console in without having the exterior case replaced or damaged. Microsoft ensured him that his request would not be a problem.

      Maybe he wasn't clear enough? Maybe he should've pointed out why he wanted that case?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    25. Re:He's an idiot by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds like a Microsoft phone droid did his job, saying "yes, yes" to everything over the phone so he could close the support ticket in minimal time and keep his manager happy. And then the Mexican repair shop droid did his job, treating the Xbox just like all the others so as not to annoy the manager or otherwise engage in troublesome independent decision-making.

      Does anyone expect otherwise from Microsoft?

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
    26. Re:He's an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sent me to jail for killing someone? You police are so predictable.

    27. Re:He's an idiot by arodland · · Score: 4, Informative

      They still sell them, they just don't make them. They're selling off existing stock, which is expected to run out before the end of 2009.

    28. Re:He's an idiot by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      The original Nintendo wasn't known for not lasting 2 years

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    29. Re:He's an idiot by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 5, Insightful

      does anyone expect otherwise from any big corporation?

    30. Re:He's an idiot by Headcase88 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Kit Kat bars don't break as often as a 360.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
    31. Re:He's an idiot by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 0, Troll
      Yes, and that's very sad for you. However, unless you can demonstrate that your problems are the result of some well-known company screwing you over, neither I nor anyone else is going to give a damn. I fail to see how this surprises you.

      And while I wouldn't call your earlier post a troll, it most certainly was unnecessarily harsh, so I'm not going to say that you were modded unjustly. Now, your post right here... that's a troll, and you have definitely been justly modded so.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    32. Re:He's an idiot by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

      IMO this is exactly the kind of case where vicarious liability makes sense. Usually I see it as unfair to the employer but in this case it just feels to me like the way the business processes were designed was what caused the problem. That's really only a gut feeling (probably because it's MS...)

      I know, weird for a /.er to have a gut feeling against MS.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
    33. Re:He's an idiot by king-manic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pictures can't be made obsolete because there is nothing in them that can be made obsolete.

      A GF sure made my playboys obsolete...

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    34. Re:He's an idiot by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

      A GF sure made my playboys obsolete...

      *ahem* as they say on various message boards around the web,

      pics or it didn't happen.

    35. Re:He's an idiot by srussia · · Score: 1

      Why is everybody talking about the substrate instead of the pigment?

      The guy should carry around a toluene-based permanent marker instead of an alcohol-based Sharpie.

      --
      Set your phasers on "funky"!
    36. Re:He's an idiot by ericlondaits · · Score: 1

      I got good clothes ruined by careless mom-and-pop-style dry cleaners... ... I wouldn't expect a big corporation to show the same kind of negligence... ... yet I would never send good clothes to a big-corporation-style dry cleaners.

      --
      As a Slashdot discussion grows longer, the probability of an analogy involving cars approaches one.
    37. Re:He's an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      isn't it terrible that we don't?

    38. Re:He's an idiot by snowraver1 · · Score: 1

      That makes me sick... That poor child.

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    39. Re:He's an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And sorry, there ARE no notable members of the gaming community outside of Sid Meier, Will Wright and, possibly, Gabe Newell.

      So it must mean that john carmack is a figment of the gaming industry's collective imagination, right?

    40. Re:He's an idiot by tsa · · Score: 1

      Not for long. The factory here in Enschede will be closed down soon (next month or so).

      --

      -- Cheers!

    41. Re:He's an idiot by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      I'd better tell the guy at work who buys the polaroid film packs for the xray machine.

      Industrial xray machines are cool. Ours has no interlocks whatsoever. Don't forget to close the door before hitting the 'expose' button.

    42. Re:He's an idiot by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have paper right here in my house that is older than 200 years old, and it's just stuck in places like bookcases. Not 'stored in perfect conditions.'

    43. Re:He's an idiot by cbart387 · · Score: 1

      He's learned an important lesson (before an actual important issue like his car/house etc). Always get it in writing. Always take down the name of the person you're talking to on the phone. It's unfortune, but you can't take people at their word. Also the person you're talking to is not in contact with everyone else in the company.

      It is a shame, I'm not busting on that. I would likely be disappointed. But I'm just glad he (hopefully) learned his lesson before this happened with something more important.

      --
      Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    44. Re:He's an idiot by Riktov · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, I'm sure the service center in Redmond handles special requests to its overseas subcontractors by issuing printed instructions intended directly for the assembly-line workers, and everybody else in between is told just to pass it on without verifying, elaborating, or translating it in any way for the next person in the chain.

      In fact maybe the Mexican repairman, after wiping off what he thought might have been valuable signatures, told his supervisor just to make sure he wouldn't get the blame later. And that note was relayed all the way back to Redmond where the Manager of XBox customer services looked at the e-mail and said "What the hell... Spanish gibberish?! Who's Miguel Gonzales? Damned if I know!" and trashed it.

      There was obviously a break in the communication chain from MS to their contractors, but I doubt that it had anything to do with to the Mexican worker' lack of English ability.

    45. Re:He's an idiot by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      I got good clothes ruined by careless mom-and-pop-style dry cleaners... ... I wouldn't expect a big corporation to show the same kind of negligence... ... yet I would never send good clothes to a big-corporation-style dry cleaners.

      But you could sue them for 50 million dollars, at least if it were pants.

    46. Re:He's an idiot by 0x000000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, I do expect differently. My previous MacBook Pro had many stickers and signatures of people in the hacking community on it. These were prized possessions to me. It took hard work and dedication to going to all these different conferences and getting people to sign my laptop. When my laptop needed repairs to the LCD I explicitly asked to have them make sure that I got my original case back.

      Normally they would have pulled the LCD out, and stuck a new one on (case and all) but, by me asking, an Apple employee somewhere had to unscrew the new LCD from the new case and do the same to the old LCD. They then put the entire thing back together. I got my artwork back, without any problems what so ever!

      --
      cat /dev/null > .signature
    47. Re:He's an idiot by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I totally agree, sending it back was stupid. Microsoft shouldn't have been liable for any 'additional value' add-ons. Most of the time you just get a replacement stock box out of the refurb stack, and they send yours off for repair to add to the stack ( or the trash heap ) and never even look at it when its still attached to your name.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    48. Re:He's an idiot by camperdave · · Score: 2

      When I went to the dentist last time, they took my x-rayed my teeth digitally, so perhaps you should chat with your guy. Photography is going digital.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    49. Re:He's an idiot by jbengt · · Score: 3, Informative

      All those paintings have been restored and are stored in museums with perfect atmospheric conditions under very low lighting.

      You've never been to The Hermitage, have you?

    50. Re:He's an idiot by Darundal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, because everyone has $279-$449 just lying around.

    51. Re:He's an idiot by nmjon · · Score: 0

      Yes this guy is an idiot on many levels. WTF was he thinking - he trusted Microsoft????????????

    52. Re:He's an idiot by MrShaggy · · Score: 1

      But that's not the point. The point is that he had something that he attached value too. And he wanted it back. Microsoft should have complied.

      --
      I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
    53. Re:He's an idiot by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Repairs are done in the usa and the cases are taken off to get at the in sides and put to the side to be put back on later so it like he got some other case back with his system and may even a new MB as parts may be swapped around as some systems can not be fixed at all. That case may be on one of the in house test systems that they keep there.

    54. Re:He's an idiot by asylumx · · Score: 2, Funny

      Someone give this guy a cookie.

    55. Re:He's an idiot by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Because, even now that the pigment problems have been solved and the pigments last like never before, the new paintings will crack and chip just as badly as the old ones did. It's unlikely that that will ever be solved, if you don't want a piece to crack or chip, the only choice is to paint on panels.

      The fading and color shifting of the pigments is definitely notable and of huge importance, but the problems with the paintings on canvas are just as bad now as they were several hundred years ago.

    56. Re:He's an idiot by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      All those paintings have been restored and are stored in museums with perfect atmospheric conditions under very low lighting.

      I haven't seen very many instances of "very low lighting" in multiple visits of the Louvre or d'Orsay, and the majority of the paintings in both places are uncovered and within reach of the viewing public. They do firmly enforce a ban on flash photography (UV is not good), but otherwise the lighting levels are comparable to what you'd see in an average office environment. Not very many instances of cracked paint either, even on paintings that are centuries old.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    57. Re:He's an idiot by AdamHaun · · Score: 1

      Except it doesn't have a guaranteed maximum lifespan. My NES is still going strong after 20 years.

      --
      Visit the
    58. Re:He's an idiot by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 1

      Sure . . . but what's the estimated lifespan of a Sharpie signiature on said-plastic?

    59. Re:He's an idiot by shogun · · Score: 1

      If you could go back in time and get the autograph of Leonardo da Vinci, would you have him scrawl it some paper or would you have him write it on a bale of hay?

      I think i'd rather go with a personally autographed copy of the Mona Lisa over those two options.

    60. Re:He's an idiot by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Gimme a break, gimme a break. Break me off a piece of that three-six-ty.

    61. Re:He's an idiot by Facegarden · · Score: 1

      I met Jacobi, the lead singer from Papa Roach, one time after a concert. I had nothing for him to sign except for maybe an old receipt, and i was kinda bummed, but then i finally realized, why not my cell phone!? It didn't make a lot of sense except that it was something i had one me that i knew i wouldn't lose, but i had him sign it anyway (under the battery cover, which is odd probably, but i knew it wouldn't get rubbed off there). Shortly after that my cell phone's screen broke, and i got a new one. I kept the old one though, and it still kicks around my room 3 years later. I actually showed it to a friend last night when the band came up in conversation. I knew the cell phone would become obsolete, but 3 years later it is still cool to me that Jacobi signed it.

      My situation is a bit different, but still, think of it this way: How awesome would it be to have an original NES from launch day that was signed by the console's developers, maybe with some artwork from one of the art guys who made Super Mario Brothers? That would be F*ing amazing, actually. This console was the same way, i wish i had one like his, and every time i played it i'd be stoked, and my friends would be jealous. Fifteen years from now i'd pop in a halo disc and play it for nostalgia. Hell, i spent damn near my entire sophomore year of college playing Halo 2 with my friends, i'm sure the game and console will have personal value for many years to come. In fact, that's why i spent an extra $50 on my console to get the Halo 3 special edition 360 - it's cool - (well, and at the time it was the only one to have HDMI, but really it was the artwork that sold me). This guy's console is even cooler - did you RTFA? That artwork was sweet!

      So, no offense, but it seems you've missed the point. You may not feel the same way about the xbox, but many people REALLY like it, and that guy's xbox was incredibly awesome. I can only hope that the original signers track this guy down and offer to sign it again!
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    62. Re:He's an idiot by srussia · · Score: 1

      I should've cleared up that I was referring to the guy marking up his Xbox. Some comments suggested that it was standard procedure at the repair centers to wipe the case clean using alcohol. If this is the case, markings using a toluene-based permanent marker would not have been erased.

      --
      Set your phasers on "funky"!
    63. Re:He's an idiot by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      They must be black & white polaroids, because the color ones deteriorate in several years. They go foggy as all the colors run together.

    64. Re:He's an idiot by RickRussellTX · · Score: 1

      It even has the real red ring of death! It's just that authentic!

    65. Re:He's an idiot by PachmanP · · Score: 1

      A "work of art" for one person may be garbage to someone else.
      I should have been an artist! I wonder if they'd take my pieces "Desk With Crap Pilled On Top" or "Basement With Clothes Piled Everywhere"
      --
      You're thinking small. Why miniaturize the laser, when we could instead enlarge the sharks? -John Searle
    66. Re:He's an idiot by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      What part of "Microsoft ensured him that his request would not be a problem" didn't you understand? You say he's an idiot for believing the company? If Microsoft was not able to comply with the request, it's simple, they should not have lied and said they could. So now we blame the victims for "believing" whenever a company lies? Great standards you have there, companies can now do and say whatever they want. It may have been naive on his part, sure, and he'll now learn the unintuitive expectation that companies are always lying (which you and I have already learned through our own ugly experiences) but it doesn't change the fact that MS should not have lied to him.

    67. Re:He's an idiot by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      That is why I tagged this submission as 'Dumbass'. Let's accept the 'fact' that it was somehow a valuable set of autographs. I would aruge against that, but to send a box in for service that even has some *sentimental* value is just plain dumb.

      He really should have just bought a new one.

    68. Re:He's an idiot by stuntpope · · Score: 1

      Black ink, or red ink?

    69. Re:He's an idiot by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      uh, yeah, if it's been sent back for repairs with the promise that the case WON'T be damaged and your Mexican repair shop can't handle that request, you damn well do it yourselves. When you screw up, the fact that you screwed up because it was company policy to screw up really counts for a sum total of sod all.

      --
      FGD 135
    70. Re:He's an idiot by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      Yet another reason why outsourcing even menial labor tasks to 3rd world countries is a BAD IDEA. Workers that don't speak your language, and make so little that they would rather destroy something with priceless sentimental value (and quite possibly real market value) than risk their crappy 10 cent an-hour job. Better to have to pay a local worker a decent wage and charge people for repairs.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    71. Re:He's an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Miyamoto? Nolan Bushnell? Shall I continue or have you realized you're a dumb shit?

    72. Re:He's an idiot by BLAG-blast · · Score: 1

      does anyone expect otherwise from any big corporation?

      Yeah... I wonder that too. Did you catch this bit:

      We read complaints for a living and can't help but wonder why gamers given so little respect by the companies that make such exorbitant profits off of them.

      I'm wonder why they don't know the answer to that....

      --
      M0571y H@rml355.
    73. Re:He's an idiot by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      So what youre telling me is that there are different levels of service for 1700+ dollar laptops vs 300 dollar game machines?!?! Whoa stop the presses!

      I'm really sick of this consumerist entitlement attitude so many people have. Its like we're in denial about how the economy is built on making things cheap and affordable, not on providing stellar service to the rich few, who are like you and can afford such an expensive laptop. For the rest of us that shop at target, buy bottom of the barrel pcs, etc we dont get such service becasue: We cant afford it. The only way we can afford such basic toys is because of the price race to the bottom.

      Ive seen people get all angry and pissy at walmart, dollar stores, home depot, etc. THey expect to be treated like little aristocrats whose 9.99 purchase entitles them to a couple of hours of time with a full time employee, who is also a poor person being paid minimum and doesnt have a phd nor does he know what 'thing will fit in the thingy in your bathroom'. Sorry thats not the reality of economics. You could have that kind of service, but expect to pay 500 dollars for that 12v drill at home depot.

      If I was in this kids boots I would have NEVER EVER sent that thing out. I know how things get factory service and its a scary process. This is a 300 dollar commodity piece of junk. Realize that. Accept that. Work around the problem. I dont consider bitching to slashdot an acceptable work-around. Oh, he might get some token handout from MS but that doesnt fix the realities of ecomomics, it just illustrates how the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Enjoy you free copy of halo and xbox live lifetime membership!

      I guess its more fashionable to rail out at corporate greed than to understand economics. Pass the bowl man!

    74. Re:He's an idiot by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Yes, the XBox 360 is going to be obsolete - but that won't mean that, retroactively, Red Vs Blue wasn't made on an XBox 360. Um, wasn't RvB made on the original Xbox and not the 360?
      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    75. Re:He's an idiot by Kelz · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now his GF can make YOUR playboys obsolete!

    76. Re:He's an idiot by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      Then the idiots would have gotten stronger solvent... What funnier is that the low-paid fix-it workers wouldn't recognize something like a famous halo character or question the autographs.

    77. Re:He's an idiot by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Nope, color.

    78. Re:He's an idiot by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Does the fact that this is expected make it any less disgusting?

      No, seriously, are we that fucking complacent that we just accept bullshit just because it's a corporation???

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    79. Re:He's an idiot by gormanbud · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows letters sent with anything to companies are NEVER read or if read are not complied with. I've sent many instructive requests with any number of items returned, requests for information or explanations of something relating to my request but have never had even a hint that the letter was read by a live, literate, functioning human.

    80. Re:He's an idiot by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      They moved to the XBox 360 shortly after it came out, but yes, the first season or two was on original XBox. At this point I think there's more XB360 than XB.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    81. Re:He's an idiot by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      Black inks don't fade as they're generally made from black carbon. The problem was with the cadmiums (yellow, orange, and red) and also with blues.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    82. Re:He's an idiot by lena_10326 · · Score: 1
      Indoors is low light. You will not see paintings directly across from a sunlit window. If you do, the windows will be tinted. Museums always have humidifiers or dehumidifiers in the HVAC to control the humidity level. You will not see them in public areas of museums.

      Not very many instances of cracked paint either, even on paintings that are centuries old.
      Painting quality is going to vary by artist, the medium, the surface, the amount of light exposure, and amount of restoration. Artists experimented constantly with varying formulas for paints and varnishes, and coatings. Some were effective, and some less effective.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    83. Re:He's an idiot by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      Most non-acid-free paper will last about 30-100 years, but that does not mean it will turn to dust in exactly 30-100 years. It's when the paper shows substantial yellowing or fragility. I guarantee you the pages of your books are yellowed and have an oder of mildew.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    84. Re:He's an idiot by alienw · · Score: 1

      I guess you are pretty fucking stupid. Microsoft is a big company. The people on the phone probably aren't even in the same country as the people that repair it. Not to mention, it's a repair service for a commodity loss-leader piece of shit that often breaks. Sounds like he did get his particular console back, which is what he requested.

      If he had big orange stickers on it saying "DO NOT CLEAN", I could maybe imagine that it wouldn't get cleaned. But no, he included a 350-word letter. The first step in any RMA process is that the products get taken out of the box, the serial numbers get scanned, and everything else gets thrown away. Considering that it would take longer to read the letter than it would to process 20 consoles, I highly doubt that anyone looked at it.

      Even then, if the repair procedure specified by Microsoft includes a step that involves cleaning the case, the repair contractor better damn well clean the case. Otherwise, they could have problems with their ISO certification, as well as be in violation of their contract with Microsoft.

    85. Re:He's an idiot by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      You've never been to The Hermitage, have you?
      You're going to tell me these are the same as the day they were painted?

      http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/04/2008/hm4_1_184.html

      Visible evidence of deterioration even on low res pics. Not a very strong case.

      Paintings deteriorate for various reasons: humidity, acidity, light-fastness, mildew, bacteria, and chemical reaction. Arguing otherwise is pointless.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    86. Re:He's an idiot by BlueCollarCamel · · Score: 2, Funny

      He's posting on Slashdot. It didn't happen.

      --
      1&1 - Cheap domain and web hosting.
    87. Re:He's an idiot by downix · · Score: 1

      you know Fuji still makes instant film, right?

      --
      Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    88. Re:He's an idiot by emjay88 · · Score: 1

      If you never play it, what's wrong with it being a worthless hulk?

      --
      1178161 is prime...
    89. Re:He's an idiot by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      If you can waste way way more than that going to the diffferent gaming conventions, a new xbox is a piss in the bucket.

      Cripes I blew $100.00 on dinner at CES! Dropping $399.00 on the Ultimate edition Xbox is nothing to a guy that does the rounds of the conventions regularly.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    90. Re:He's an idiot by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're right. We'd better replace that mid-5-figures piece of equipment because 'the world is going digital.' We clearly need to take the lead from what the sales dweebs say at Best Buy. I'll "chat with my guy" about it Monday.

    91. Re:He's an idiot by Khuffie · · Score: 1

      I love how Slashdot decides to run what is effectively a (pointless) smear campaign article against the 360, and choose to ignore stories about Microsoft's announcement that people can now self-publish games on the 360. Come on editors. At least show some semblance of non-bias.

    92. Re:He's an idiot by devjj · · Score: 1

      Why the hell is this modded insightful? Microsoft told him he wouldn't have an issue. From that point forward any deviation is in the company's error, and it is just that simple. Had Microsoft told this guy they couldn't guarantee anything (as they should have) and he sent it in anyway, then sure, shame on him. They didn't. They told him it wouldn't be a problem, and as a result he had every right to expect that they would honor their word.

      What you're suggesting amounts to blaming the victim, and just an in real, "serious" matters, it tends to be wrong to do so. To go so far as you are, actually trying to denigrate what that console meant to him, is - quite frankly - lame. Who fucking cares what you think? It meant a lot to him, Microsoft told him it wouldn't be an issue, and it turned out they lied. Whether you think it was a worthwhile exercise means absolutely nothing.

      Insightful, my ass.

    93. Re:He's an idiot by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Cheap plastics (most of them) tend to off-gas all kinds of nasty stuff over time (including formaldahyde, adipates and Phthalates). This would likely cause the signitures to fade or peel off long before the plastics themselves began to break down.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    94. Re:He's an idiot by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is, in order to not be fucked over by a big company, you must:

      • Know whether the company considers the product to be a loss leader
      • Know the statistics of how often it breaks
      • Agree with alienw that it's commodity, and a piece of shit
      • Make your request once over the phone, then ignore whatever they tell you and slap big orange stickers on it
      • Pray that they notice

      I have a better way: Expect that big corporations try not to be quite as much of an asshole as alienw is.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    95. Re:He's an idiot by randyest · · Score: 1

      Well golly I guess your polaroids from 40 years ago are just magical and everyone else is just unlucky enough to see their polaroids lose color and clarity in as little as a few months. Maybe that's because you got one of the first polaroid color cameras 40 years ago, which would have been from the first 5 years of production, you know -- when they could still afford to inject the magic.

      In any case, try not to miss the point of the thread: a polaroid print will not outlast a plastic xbox360 case.

      --
      everything in moderation
    96. Re:He's an idiot by FlyingGuy · · Score: 1

      Yeah but you are sooooooo like 1.5 picoseconds ago!

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
    97. Re:He's an idiot by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      The funny part, is your link doesn't mention anyone losing color and clarity 'in just a few months'. Did you even bother to fucking read it?

    98. Re:He's an idiot by randyest · · Score: 1
      Sure I did. Did you?

      Just leave a few uncoated prints lying around for a couple of months, and you can watch them brown out & fade away....
      --
      everything in moderation
    99. Re:He's an idiot by mcvos · · Score: 1

      The kid specifically asked if he could keep his own case with the signatures, without it being damaged. If that was not an option, Microsoft should have said so. Instead "Microsoft ensured him that his request would not be a problem." So the kid has every right to be angry.

      This is not about corporate greed, it's simply about corporations doing what they just promised to do. The kid did exactly what he should: he asked first. He didn't blindly assume, he got an annswer, and he believed that answer. When Microsoft breaks its word, that's Microsoft's fault, not the kid's.

    100. Re:He's an idiot by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Microsoft shouldn't have been liable for any 'additional value' add-ons.

      But Microsoft should be liable for lying to the kid about it. According to TFA, they told him his autographs would be safe. From that point on, they should be liable. Particularly if this scrubbing procedure is standard treatment.

    101. Re:He's an idiot by necrozen · · Score: 1

      I had the same response on a different forum.

      Why are people so dedicated to these faceless cororations? Or am I mistaking dedication for stupidity?

      Either way, I find the fact that no one cares about this to be very disturbing. But I bet if it had happened to them, they'd be singing a different tune. At least I hope they would.

  2. What was he thinking? by bignetbuy · · Score: 1

    Special treatment from a warranty repair center? He should be thankful to have received a working unit. Most of those types of centers are offshore -- meaning English probably isn't their first language.

    Sucks to lose the artwork -- especially the signatures from Bungie folks. Using the Xbox 360 to hold the sigs when the failure rate for older 360s is still too high is begging for a huge pint of FAIL.

    PS: FIRST POAST.

    1. Re:What was he thinking? by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      PS: FIRST POAST. (Note: not first post)

      huge pint of FAIL.

      The witty comment almost makes itself. :P

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
  3. Scrubbed? by Izabael_DaJinn · · Score: 1

    Sounds dubious to moi. To get those things perfectly white again after having been covered with permanent marker seems a little unrealistic. They must have accidentally swapped the cover or the story is nonsense. Either way, it's like duh.

    --
    Careful What You Wish For....
    1. Re:Scrubbed? by weirdguy · · Score: 1

      Really. I'm starting to think this guy is trying to get a free xbox..

    2. Re:Scrubbed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds dubious to moi. To get those things perfectly white again after having been covered with permanent marker seems a little unrealistic. They must have accidentally swapped the cover or the story is nonsense. Either way, it's like duh. Permanent marker comes off of metal and plastic very easily. Just spray some dry erase board cleaner, wait 10-20 seconds, and wipe it off. Not a trace of it left.
  4. They didn't tell him... by calebt3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...that it was an entirely new console.
    I just can't decide if the old one was discarded or some repair guy decided that he really liked the case and kept it.

    1. Re:They didn't tell him... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      I just can't decide if the old one was discarded or some repair guy decided that he really liked the case and kept it.

      ... maybe he should keep an eye on ebay ...

    2. Re:They didn't tell him... by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      from TFA, he enclosed a photo with what appear to be smudges on the console from the signatures that said technician didn't finish scrubbing off.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    3. Re:They didn't tell him... by HAKdragon · · Score: 5, Informative

      If it was a new console, the serial numbers wouldn't match up.

      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
    4. Re:They didn't tell him... by vxvxvxvx · · Score: 1

      I agree, and an amazed at how many /. people are not even questioning whether this happened. I guess if it's MS that did it, it *must* be true (rolleyes.)

    5. Re:They didn't tell him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...widely known by idiots, maybe. If they swapped every time, they would be losing even more money than they already are. Try checking your serial number, I've had mine repaired twice, and it has only been switched once.

    6. Re:They didn't tell him... by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      ...widely known by idiots, maybe. If they swapped every time, they would be losing even more money than they already are. Try checking your serial number, I've had mine repaired twice, and it has only been switched once. Why would that cost them money? Get XBox, put in the "to repair" pile, pull from the "repaired" pile. That wouldn't cost them any more than repair + send back, and it would get the unit back to the customer quicker. Or is that too something only an "idiot" would think of?
    7. Re:They didn't tell him... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Maybe they've got a "float" of repaired units.

      1. 100 units come in for repair
      2. 90 are repairable, 10 are scrap
      3. fix the 90 repairable, and take 10 from the next batch to replace those that are scrapped

      Eventually, they have to "make good" on the float - but it will be at a lower cost, since their costs are going down each year. If you can "float" 100,000 units over 3 years, and save $100 per unit when you eventually have to replace that float, you've banked $10 million.

    8. Re:They didn't tell him... by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Sure, that'd also work and is probably pretty close to how it's handled. My point was only that the GGP's post about losing money on sending out refurbs didn't make a whole lot of sense.

    9. Re:They didn't tell him... by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      sure they might. They swapped the serial number sticker on my gateway the last time I had it "repaired"- it was loose and put on crooked. It wouldn't surprise me if MS does the same.

    10. Re:They didn't tell him... by elambi · · Score: 1

      When you send in your xbox you get back a different one with a different serial number.

      --
      Sig, we don't need no stinking Sig!
  5. dur by wizardforce · · Score: 3, Interesting

    maybe I'm missing something here but what repair could possibly justify the work of scrubbing signatures off of a gaming console? If somehow the repair did require that they not have ink/signatures on the case, why not take the case off, so the repairs, put the case back? For that matter, who thought it was easier/more efficient to take all that time to scrub it off when they could have used another case and returned this one?

    --
    Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    1. Re:dur by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      I was going to say that that would be a stupid thing for an employee to do but considering MS's repair track record, they don't seem to do any of the paperwork that would link employee x to bad service/fubared consoles. It's going to be as bad as gamers are willing to allow- the only thing that truely gets MS's attention is a decreasing marketshare which leads to a loss of cash. granted they only recently started making any cash off their consoles but that could change if they get any worse.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    2. Re:dur by penguin_dance · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it wasn't just substituted. Back in the day I took my Commodore 64 in for repairs. The just took mine and gave me another refurbished system. That's probably what happened here, unless he can see it's the same serial You can't tell anything from the photos to verify that's the same case which has just been scrubbed. Personally, I don't know why he would ship this off--if you've got something that's valuable (at least to you) you don't ship it off to Norman Numbnuts at the repair shop. In fact, why would you even use that machine for playing? Buy another and put this one on a shelf.

      Usually such things are only valued as the price of the machine, so if he got a working machine back, that's likely all they'll be liable for.

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    3. Re:dur by MadnessASAP · · Score: 1

      I would love the opportunity to work on a Ferrari, speakign as someone who jsut replaced a strut on a Ford Windstar I would be more likely to kick someone who drove in one of those POS vans for me to repair then a miracle of engineering Ferrari. Not to mention that mechanics who go around not treating customer cars with respect don't last as mechanics in a respectable shop and certainly not anywhere that would repair a high end sports car.

      --
      I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
    4. Re:dur by netcrusher88 · · Score: 1

      It's not that hard - marker on acrylic comes off with a bit of rubbing alcohol pretty easily. And there's a perfectly good reason - I have it on good authority that policy is to restore repaired consoles to a "like new" condition, because most people prefer it that way.

      --
      There's an old saying that says pretty much whatever you want it to.
    5. Re:dur by neumayr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess a lot XBoxes that get sent in for repair have paint or stickers covering the case in a way that decreases airflow, causing it to overheat.
      As another poster pointed out, the consoles are repaired by badly paid assembly line workers, who're supposed to blindly follow instructions. Assembly line workers usually lack education, so the instructions must be kept simple - instead of 'remove any paint/stickers obstructing airflow', it probably says 'remove any paint/stickers'.
      In most cases, removing paint and stickers probably is more cost-efficient than replacing the case, and those assembly line slaves aren't going to argue - why would they, they're treated badly, and most likely don't care about their employers finances.

      --
      Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
    6. Re:dur by Fanboys_Suck_Dick · · Score: 1

      It is highly likely that he sent his Xbox in due to the Red Ring of Death(he said his Xbox 'died'). When this happens Microsoft does not return the same console that you sent them. Instead they send you a refurbished system with a similar manufacture date. The console they return has a completely different serial number.

    7. Re:dur by Bin+Naden · · Score: 1

      The take your old x-box, put it in the to repair pile, get a repaired refurbished x-box, put it in a box and send it to you. What would you prefer, an x-box full of the mucus, semen, blood, and bacteria of the previous owner or an x-box that had been scrubbed down with alcohol? Imagine the lawsuits if one of the refurbished x-boxes sent caused the receiver to become ill.

      --
      There should be a "-1:Groupthink"
    8. Re:dur by Cromac · · Score: 1
      maybe I'm missing something here but what repair could possibly justify the work of scrubbing signatures off of a gaming console?

      Cleaning the console is probably SOP, would YOU work on some scummy, nasty game box covered in dust and who knows what? They surely have a policy of having someone with gloves wipe down every box with some cleaning solvent before working on it.

    9. Re:dur by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      I would be more likely to kick someone who drove in one of those POS vans for me to repair then a miracle of engineering Ferrari.
      Speaking as one who has performed work on exotics, they may be miracles of engineering, but they are not designed to be worked on like your typical car. Particularly for exotics used in racing. They figure after every race, you're going to pull the body off anyway, so no problem putting the oil filter somewhere only accessible with the body off. I had to do some work on the transmission on my Lotus Esprit. You don't "drop the transmission" like you would in any other car. Instead, it has to come up and out the trunk. In my case, the input shaft had frozen into the crank thanks to a melted bearing (it's underdesigned for a daily driver, but hey you're just going to replace it every few races anyway.), so I had to pull the tranny and the engine.
      All that being said, it sure gives one a feeling of accomplishment to do all that work and have it start up after you've put it all back together.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    10. Re:dur by Minwee · · Score: 1

      What's to be jealous of? The tech probably thought to himself "Hey, someone scribbled all over his case. Oh well, if it was anything important he wouldn't have sent it here. Time to follow standard procedure, break out the alcohol and scrub it down just like we do with every other case that comes in here. *scrub scrub* Next case... Looks like this one has mysterious stains on it. Time for a new pair of gloves..."

    11. Re:dur by Morvandium · · Score: 1

      Stickers, paint, ink and so on can also disguise evidence of potential warranty-voiding activities, such as deep scratches or dents from a large drop, or a scar left from a burn -- who sets a soldering iron on an XBox360, anyway? -- or other similar. In a place that handles warranty repairs, thoroughly checking for warranty-voiding causes of malfunction seems good business practice.

      Microsoft here, as in most areas, was overzealous.

      --
      "If God's on our side, he'll stop the next war." -- Bob Dylan
    12. Re:dur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see the story now: Gamer dies of mysterious disease contracted from game console. The only visible symptom was a reddening and swelling of the anus. The ailment is rapidly becoming known as 'The Red Ring Of Death'

    13. Re:dur by bjmoneyxxx · · Score: 1

      You've never worked in a factory, have you? You have a job, you do it.

  6. Can't believe Agents by EdIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really feel for this guy. I really do.

    However, you can never rely on an agent for anything. They really can say anything, and generally are not held accountable. You have to go up to supervisor level and above, get employee identification information, and to some extent, get a written letter of intent from the company.

    It's like asking the sales guy for technical information on how stuff works. Bad Idea. Go to tech support to talk to the guy instead.

    That being said, it seems pretty clear from the article that somebody at Microsoft may have been mean and spiteful to "wash" the case. I say that only since we do not know what processes go on inside. It may be possible that multiple people are responsible for the repair, and the person taking the unit out the box and reading the letter just lacked the appropriate standing or ability to communicate anything down the line. The person that washed the case, may have been simply doing his job, and may have even had reservations about doing it. That employee may have had nobody to talk to either, or even the time and the "empowerment" to do so. It is entirely possible that the whole operation is so big, that expecting this kind of interdepartmental communication and cooperation is just unreasonable, and a little naive.

    That is what I believe. That kind of operation must be so huge, given the volume, that for the systems and policies to be implemented to track this incident from its creation to its conclusion is just too costly of an undertaking. You would have to believe that they could create a RMA and from the very beginning include dynamic handling instructions that would be passed throughout the entire process. Most business fail at this already.

    If anybody is truly responsible, it is the agent for making that representation in the first place. That agent, by their representations, implied that such abilities do exist.

    Of course it would be interesting to know if there are policies in place to retain cases and artwork. On the surface, it is easy to condemn M$ overall for this, but there are just too many unknowns in the story.

    1. Re:Can't believe Agents by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it's easy to condemn MS in general, even without the unknowns.

      Someone asked a specific question of a customer service representative. That representative gave a clear and unambiguous answer. Either that answer was incorrect, or a serious mistake was made internally.

      It doesn't matter which of those was the case. If you bring a car to an auto shop, and they rip out your engine, do you let them get away with "oh well someone made a mistake"? "Our customer service representative wasn't authorized to make that promise"? "Our company's just too big man, there's nothing you can do about it! These things just happen."

      Fuck that.

      Microsoft support screwed up. I don't know what section they screwed it up in, but I honestly don't care. The details don't matter. Microsoft support screwed up and should take responsibility - figuring out where the mistake was made is their problem.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    2. Re:Can't believe Agents by Televiper2000 · · Score: 1

      I'm picturing the same chain of events. Some technician is charged with the responsibility of making sure the cases are put out for shipping in pristine "like-new" condition. It's also possible that the technician and even their manager didn't expect their cleaning solution (probably 99% alcohol) to able to clean the marker off the case. In my experience it certainly will, especially if Microsoft put some real quality into their packaging. My theory... technician meant to do some standard cleaning, the marker smudged unexpectedly and in the end it seemed easier just to clean properly than leave a mess.

      --
      New! Device Legs: These legs will help your poor OEM installed product escape any hamfistedness it may encounter. Ava
    3. Re:Can't believe Agents by caliburngreywolf · · Score: 1

      Eh. some people call in a million times until they get the answer they want to hear. Then, when after 20 "no sir" they are shocked and dismayed that the one "I think so" from the fresh-out-of-training kidn that made their day...was in error.... and expect the company to live up to the one "maybe" instead of the 20 emphatic "no" answers. People complain about agents giving inconsistant answers, but those same people call in multiple times until they get the answer they want to hear.

    4. Re:Can't believe Agents by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly? It's still the company's fault. If the company says "yes we can do this" then it means they should do it, I don't care if it was person #1 or person #20.

      If you ask me to sign a contract, and I say no, and you ask another 20 times and I finally sign it, am I exempt from it because you asked me a lot? Not in the least. Same deal here. If the company said they'd do X, and they didn't do X, I don't see any excuses.

      (I don't actually know if they did say so. But I'm assuming that they did.)

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    5. Re:Can't believe Agents by Craevenwulfe · · Score: 1, Informative

      Sadly there was no malice here.
      I used to work in a company that bid for xbox repair work.
      In all reality the process is that 1 person in country A takes the customer return information
      Unit is received in country B by one operator who strips down the unit and disposes of the packaging. The serial number of the unit is then scanned in to their tracking system and matches it up against customer return information.
      Now assuming that YOUR xbox is returned to you rather than some form of advance exchange programme a different operator will diagnose the defective part of your xbox, this part will be swapped out and either RMA'd itself or repaired offline. Now your unit will be final tested by another operator who will then pass it on to a QC station for another operator who will immediately identify that the outside casing does not meet Microsoft outbound QC standards and will clean the casing, or swap it out if it does not scrub up enough.

      There is no way in the system for it to pop up saying DO NOT CLEAN ME. And even if the repair facility got the email from services they are totally unlikely to have caught the unit in the repair loop.

    6. Re:Can't believe Agents by mpe · · Score: 1

      If you bring a car to an auto shop, and they rip out your engine, do you let them get away with "oh well someone made a mistake"? "Our customer service representative wasn't authorized to make that promise"? "Our company's just too big man, there's nothing you can do about it! These things just happen."

      Also you as a customer cannot possibly be expected to the internal structure and politics of any corporation they are dealing with.
      In some places it's actually the law that if a corporation agrees something with you it's binding on them. If their employee/agent didn't have the authority then that's their problem.

    7. Re:Can't believe Agents by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      How far does it go? I mean say they determine the unit is beyond repair and just give him a new one - does the customer really expect the repair people to take the case off the old unit and put it on the new unit?

      In the end they fixed his xbox - thats what their job is.

      Plus I'm sure in the eula/support agreement it states somewhere that their responsibility during repair is to restore the unit to its original factory condition - which means bye bye artwork.

      And for the CSR that told this guy his artwork would be preserved probably thought he was talking about after market skinning - which just pops off.

      Outsourcing - you have to have to admire the side effects :). Microsoft screwed up for sure - they should have told this guy no way in hell would they be responsible for anything written on the side of the case - that's what I would have said personally.

    8. Re:Can't believe Agents by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      No. I expect them to look at the piece of paper saying "do not under any circumstances damage the artwork on this case" and call him up to ask him what he wants to do. Unless it's easier to just move the case, in which case, yeah, they probably should do that. (It's quite possible it would have just been easier to replace the case.)

      And yeah, I agree, they should have just said "we can't guarantee anything". That at least would have been honest. But they didn't.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    9. Re:Can't believe Agents by mpe · · Score: 1

      Plus I'm sure in the eula/support agreement it states somewhere that their responsibility during repair is to restore the unit to its original factory condition - which means bye bye artwork.

      The customer's negotiated agreement supercedes any "eula/support agreement". If this were not the case then the entire economy of any country daft enough write its contract law any other way would collapse in a very short order.

      And for the CSR that told this guy his artwork would be preserved probably thought he was talking about after market skinning - which just pops off.

      If Microsoft didn't understand what they had agreed to then the only person with a problem is Microsoft. Even if they did make a genuine mistake they are probably obliged to compensate the customer for their loss.

    10. Re:Can't believe Agents by king-manic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you ask me to sign a contract, and I say no, and you ask another 20 times and I finally sign it, am I exempt from it because you asked me a lot? Not in the least. Same deal here. If the company said they'd do X, and they didn't do X, I don't see any excuses. That really depends on how you ask those 20 times. If you say tied him up and smacked him with a shovel to the groin each time he said no then that is duress and the contract is void.
      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    11. Re:Can't believe Agents by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      Admittedly, that's true. However, I suspect the customer service agent wasn't subjected to that. :)

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    12. Re:Can't believe Agents by mpe · · Score: 1

      some people call in a million times until they get the answer they want to hear.

      How is this different from asking someone several times "Will you sell X to me?", "Can I borrrow Z?", "Will you marry me?", "Will you have sex with me?", etc, etc. There is little stopping one person asking another person the same question (or variations along the lines of "have you changed your mind about...") several times. That the asker/askee/both may be "corporate people" dosn't change this. A business would have a hard time convincing any court that a customer calling an advertised "customer service number" in relation to a matter of customer service would be grounds for granting any kind of "restraining order".
      Another variation on this is political lobbiests trying to get laws passed after the original proposal has been voted against.

    13. Re:Can't believe Agents by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      No, it's easy to condemn MS in general, even without the unknowns.

      Someone asked a specific question of a customer service representative. That representative gave a clear and unambiguous answer. Either that answer was incorrect, or a serious mistake was made internally.

      It doesn't matter which of those was the case. If you bring a car to an auto shop, and they rip out your engine, do you let them get away with "oh well someone made a mistake"? "Our customer service representative wasn't authorized to make that promise"? "Our company's just too big man, there's nothing you can do about it! These things just happen."

      Fuck that.

      Microsoft support screwed up. I don't know what section they screwed it up in, but I honestly don't care. The details don't matter. Microsoft support screwed up and should take responsibility - figuring out where the mistake was made is their problem.



      Actually, MS appeared to do excatly what he requested - return the original case. No where in the letter did he specifically ask for the case art not to be removed. The agent may have assumed they wouldn't clean the case and the owner may have assumed that "return the original case" meant do not remove the artwork, but that was only implied in the letter.

      Yeh, it sucks, but points out why it is important to specifically stae what you want, in writting, and get an email in advance from the agent stating excatly what will be done with the unit. If they can't email you then that's a sign that what they say may not happen and it's up to you to decide if it's worth the risk to mail in the unit.

      That said, from a PR perspective it would be nice for MS to do something; and to clarify when setting up a return that returned units will be cleaned any any customization may be removed in the process.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    14. Re:Can't believe Agents by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      He does explicitly mention the ink, however, as well as the signatures. I agree that he didn't explicitly say "oh yeah please don't erase the case art" in the letter but, depending on what the phone conversation was like, the letter shouldn't technically have been necessary at all.

      At best, that's a loophole.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    15. Re:Can't believe Agents by cbart387 · · Score: 1

      Should do it, yes. However did he (a) take down the name of the person talking (b) get MS's response in writing? Without those to things ... it's a shame but but at least he learned how the world works before something more important.

      --
      Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    16. Re:Can't believe Agents by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      If the electronics in the unit are beyond repair, it should still be possible to take a new unit and put the old case on it. That makes a few minutes of extra work, but once the service representative has promised to keep the artwork intact it can be expected.

      So I think we are looking at one or both of the following:
      -incompetent service employee on the phone (makes empty promises)
      -poor organization (even promises the hotline is empowered to make are lost in the system)

      Considering the EULA:
      That may or may not be valid depending on country. But either way, the PR backlash is far greater than the cost of handling this properly would have been. Slashdot has some influence...

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    17. Re:Can't believe Agents by OMNIpotusCOM · · Score: 1

      Someone asked a specific question of a customer service representative. That representative gave a clear and unambiguous answer. Either that answer was incorrect, or a serious mistake was made internally. No, I'll tell you exactly how that conversation went. Customer: My case is very important to me and I need to get it back Rep: I'm sorry, sir, but we cannot guarantee that you'll get the same parts back that you send in. It's defective and the repair team will certainly have to replace parts. Customer: Ok, but the case isn't defective and I need that back. It's very important. Rep: (thinking 'is it as important as a working 360?') I'm sorry, sir, but I simply cannot guarantee that you'll get the same parts back. Customer: Can I just send in the defective parts and get working parts? Rep: No sir, we need the entire machine. Customer: Can I send it in without a case? Rep: Is that the whole machine sir? Customer: Well, it's the whole machine-part of the machine. Rep: Sir, if you want to use this service and get back a working machine, we need the entire machine. It doesn't matter if you have a defective controller or burnt out hard drive, we need the whole package. Customer: I don't have some of the packing material that was inside... the cardboard and stuff. Rep: That is ok sir, just the machine. Customer: But you just said- Rep: Want a working machine? Customer: Yes, that's why- Rep: Send it in, the entire machine. Everything you have. We will fix it. Customer: And I can get my case back? Rep: Yes sir, I will put a note on there for them to send you exactly what you sent them, 3-6 months later. Customer: But then it won't work, and I'll be without it for 3-6 months. Rep: (thinking 'and I'll still be on this fucking phone call in 3-6 months too') Then send in the whole machine and we will send you a working on. Customer: And I'll get my original case back? Rep: Yes sir, I can personally guarantee that you will get your case back. In fact, we're not going to change anything. There's a little switch in there that's labeled "broken" and "working". I'm sure it just got jostled. Customer: Can't I just flip the switch? Rep: There is no switch. sir. I'm just running out of ways to tell you that if you want a working system you need to send in the whole thing, and if you don't want to use the service then I should disconnect and go on to the pool of 383 calls coming into our call center now. Customer: Can I put a note on it? Rep: I'm sure you can. Customer: Will they read it? Rep: Are you writing it in English? You get the idea. The end-game was the Rep telling the customer absolutely anything he wanted because he was too dumb to listen.
    18. Re:Can't believe Agents by maxume · · Score: 1

      It depends a great deal on how well he communicated his intent to the phone support; the case was in fact returned undamaged, it was the signatures and art that were damaged. If he didn't make it clear that he was concerned more with the writing than the case, a busy person would say "yep, case doesn't get damaged or replaced".

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    19. Re:Can't believe Agents by asylumx · · Score: 1

      Um... Cars cost tens of thousands of dollars... xbox is a couple hundred. Also ripping out the engine means the car no longer functions. The xbox was repaired and functioned properly afterward. It's more like they replaced the body without telling you, which is completely unrealistic. Yeah, it sucks that this guy wasted so much of his life getting these signatures & artwork on his video game system and then it was lost during a repair job... but is this really newsworthy?

    20. Re:Can't believe Agents by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Honestly? It's still the company's fault. If the company says "yes we can do this" then it means they should do it, I don't care if it was person #1 or person #20.
      Big companies don't have to take responsibility for their employees actions. When I subscribed to long distance, I was given my choice, and since my Dad worked at AT&T, I chose them. I called the representative and she sold me an international calling plan and a long distance plan. A month later, I got a bill for about $400. The per minute rates I was paying were about 10 times what I had been told. When I called, they said I didn't have a calling plan. I told them of the plan that I had been sold by an AT&T representative. They said that plan is not available in my area. So what, instead of calling me and telling me their representative made a mistake, they just don't give me a plan and charge me 10 times what I had been told I would have to pay? I told them that I had been sold that plan and wanted that plan. They said they could not give it to me. The next best plan was about 50% more per minute than I had been quoted and also came with a monthly fee. I told them I would only pay them for the amount that it should have cost under the plan they sold me. They told me that that would be fine and they would report the rest to my credit bureau and a collection agency. All of this was a mistake that THEIR EMPLOYEE made, and the person who has to pay as a result is THEIR CUSTOMER or they will RUIN YOUR CREDIT RATING.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    21. Re:Can't believe Agents by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      He does explicitly mention the ink, however, as well as the signatures. I agree that he didn't explicitly say "oh yeah please don't erase the case art" in the letter but, depending on what the phone conversation was like, the letter shouldn't technically have been necessary at all.

      At best, that's a loophole.


      Whilke it may be a loophole;, this whole episode points out several key things about repairs:

      1. Just becasue you think the other person understood what you said doesn't mean they did; so you need to be very explicit about what it is you want (or don't want done). The agent may have honestly ensured him he will get the case back without ever realizing that he also didn't want it cleaned during the repair.

      2. Anytime you send in something for repair there is a chance you will get a replacement, not the original, item; if only because it is often cheaper to replace now and refurb the old one later as needed, which is why most warranties say the item may be replaced with another unit for a warrany repair. In addition, repairs are done via a process that doesn't accomodate special requests; the cost of that would drive up warranty costs for no good reason.

      The bottom line is there is no good way to track a specific peice of inexpenensive electronics through the repair process; you simply verify it came in and that a unit went out. To do more would be a logistics nightmare.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    22. Re:Can't believe Agents by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      This is the point where you either take a closer look at whatever you signed (you did read it before signing, right?) or you take them to small claims court over it.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    23. Re:Can't believe Agents by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      This is the point where you either take a closer look at whatever you signed (you did read it before signing, right?) or you take them to small claims court over it.
      When you sign up for long distance they don't give you anything to sign or tell you about any small print. I have never received any kind of contract or information about any long distance plan that I have ever had. I guess they are not required to disclose the details to the consumer.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    24. Re:Can't believe Agents by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      IANAL but I think at that point you have a pretty credible claim in court. "I made this deal. I agreed to this deal. They changed the deal. I dare them to show me paperwork showing otherwise." "Uh, um, err" "Case dismissed."

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    25. Re:Can't believe Agents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And wtf does that have to do with the promise that was made and broken? If I spend $300 on a 1980 Accord and spend some money rebuilding the car with a custom paint job and take it in to a car shop I'd be pissed if it came back fucked up.

    26. Re:Can't believe Agents by LiENUS · · Score: 1

      IANAL but I think at that point you have a pretty credible claim in court. "I made this deal. I agreed to this deal. They changed the deal. I dare them to show me paperwork showing otherwise." "Uh, um, err" "Case dismissed." Since the sales representative was acting as an agent on behalf of AT&T and it was in the normal course of business yes he definitely has a very strong claim in court against the company itself, not the agent.
    27. Re:Can't believe Agents by AnotherUsername · · Score: 1

      Admittedly, that's true. However, I suspect the customer service agent wasn't subjected to that. :)

      You obviously didn't get the memo about the new customer service program that was recently enacted. I'll see that you get a copy of it.

      By the way, have you been having a problem with your TPS reports? Um...yeah...You see, we're putting the new cover sheets on all TPS reports before they go out. Did you see the memo about this? If you could be sure that you do that from now, that would be great. I'll get you another copy of that memo too.
      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
    28. Re:Can't believe Agents by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Somehow I doubt the kid tied up the representative and smacked him with a shovel, but I'm sure he'd really love to do that now.

  7. MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 5, Informative

    ... they repair it for someone else.

    FYI, if you mail-in your 360 for "repairs" your going to get a previously refurbished 360. MS does this in order to accelerate turnaround. Moreover, what you get back could very well be an older model that is more prone to failure.

    --
    "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
    1. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, according to the article, he talked to them beforehand and got their word he would get his original case back.

      And he did, the odd part is not that he got back someone else's case, but that he got his own case back scrubbed clean.

      Someone specifically knew he wanted the same case, and they scrubbed all the stuff away before giving it back. It sounds malicious.

    2. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Raideen · · Score: 1

      I would have to imagine that any company that operates on a large scale does that. Put it on the bench, test it for some common issues, and if it can't be easily repaired, take the whole unit apart and send each part out for batch testing. Others then make complete refurb units from the tested, working parts. In this case, they probably sent back a completely different refurb unit. Even in the picture where he shows the smudges, he circles a smudge where there was no signature before. They probably don't even care about the "ruined" chassis. If multiple component failure and major chassis damage aren't common, they're going to end-up with spare chassis. The signed chassis is probably on its way to a recycling facility or a dump.

    3. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by _xeno_ · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it's malice or just standard procedure. Here's a possible scenario: the customer service rep was asked to make sure that he received the original Xbox 360 back and not a refurbished one. So the tech support guy said "sure" and marked that in the repair order. And, just as requested, he in fact got the original Xbox 360 back.

      Now, since the default is to refurbish the Xbox 360s, it would make sense that part of the standard repair would be to clean the case. It's entirely possible that the customer service rep had no idea that the case would be cleaned. In hindsight, it makes perfect sense for part of the standard refurbishing process to include cleaning the case. But I'd never have thought of that.

      So the breakdown occurred because the customer service rep didn't indicate that the case shouldn't be cleaned. Not out of malice, but because he had no idea that he should even do so in the first place.

      Then the repair center took the Xbox 360 and ran it through the standard checklist. Since there was no indication that they shouldn't clean the case, they cleaned it as normal. They then sent it back to the shipping center, who then looks up the repair order and sees that the Xbox 360 is earmarked for a certain customer and ships it out.

      No malice required: just lack a simple lack of knowledge.

      On an offtopic note: is the parent post I'm responding to coming up with an apparent starting score of -2 to anyone else? It apparently had a starting score of -1 for some reason, then was modded up at least twice to reach 0. That seems... broken.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    4. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by caliburngreywolf · · Score: 1

      I doubth the first person he asked said "I promise they won't clean it". He probably kept calling until he found someone who would say what he wanted to hear. I've worked in the biz, happens all the time. idiot calls in time and time again, gets the same answer. finally calls in and gets the answer he likes, then screams "broken verbal contract" when the first dozen calls he made gave the correct answer and the last call gave the wrong, desired answer.

    5. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 3, Insightful

      General rule of dealing with humanity:

      Never ascribe to malice what could as easily be caused by incompetence, stupidity, or forgetfulness.

      This is true in dealing with large corporations, and it is extra true in marriage.

    6. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by mpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I doubth the first person he asked said "I promise they won't clean it". He probably kept calling until he found someone who would say what he wanted to hear. I've worked in the biz, happens all the time. idiot calls in time and time again, gets the same answer. finally calls in and gets the answer he likes, then screams "broken verbal contract" when the first dozen calls he made gave the correct answer and the last call gave the wrong, desired answer.

      This is called "negotiation". The only idiot here is the corporation in question. Part of the whole deal of corporations being "people" is that they can change their minds.
      What do you expect would happen if the boot was on the other foot with a customer or supplier stating "my original answer is the (only) correct one"?

    7. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by tokul · · Score: 1

      Never ascribe to malice what ...

      This is true in dealing with large corporations,

      What planet are you from? It is not true when dealing with corporations.
    8. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Akhiris · · Score: 1

      That's not entirely true. I sent mine in and just got it back yesterday. It has the same serial number on the outside. What they do is replace the guts. I still don't have one with an HDMI. On the phone MS told me that I would get back my old unit.

      They don't want to deal with people calling in to have their MS points refunded later on.

    9. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by sootman · · Score: 1

      Yea, I can vouch for that. I sent in my 360 a couple weeks ago and I just got it back. It had a cool retro Atari sticker on it but the one I got back has a bunch of people's names on it and shit.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    10. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      There is no "rule" for determining whether or not something is incompetence or malice. In my experience it's probably equally often one or the other. The fact that that line is repeated often doesn't lend it any authority at all.

    11. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That rule is usually applied to the class of errors that involve missing something or forgetting something.

      It doesn't work so well in cases that involved putting in actual nontrivial extra effort. An incompetant, stupid, or forgetful mailman might forget to deliver your letter, or stick it in the wrong mailbox, but he is not going to walk around back and stick your letter in the composter.

    12. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      Au contraire!

      Large corporations are frequently evil, yes.

      They're even more frequently stupid, forgetful, or incompetent.

    13. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by feepness · · Score: 1

      Never ascribe to malice what could as easily be caused by incompetence, stupidity, or forgetfulness. This is true in dealing with large corporations, and it is extra true in marriage. You obviously haven't met my ex-wife.
    14. Re:MS doesn't repair your Xbox 360 for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I sure the mexican(or whatever) that was cleaning it said "hehe, I really going to fuck this guy over by cleaning his case."

  8. Re:They should do MORE than apologize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    No, that would be rubbing salt in the wound

  9. Pretty common... by KyoMamoru · · Score: 4, Informative

    Anytime you send something into service/repair for -any- company, regardless of what industry they are, you waive rights to that current hardware. As long as you get something that is comparable back to it, there's very little that you can do legally, since sending it to the Repair center means acceptance of all of the stipulations.

    1. Re:Pretty common... by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Many of the companies with service centers would like that to be true, but that doesn't mean that it is. As always, in the *only way* to know your legal standing in a case like this is to talk to a lawyer.

      If that were true in this case then it would make it *utterly* obvious that someone at Microsoft was ethically at fault. If such an agreement were assumed then the letter included in the case indicated a lack of acceptance of that arrangement - in which case doing anything other than shipping it back untouched would be obviously unacceptable.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    2. Re:Pretty common... by belmolis · · Score: 1

      This is definitely not true unless you are informed that you will not receive the original unit back and agree to this. There may be some companies that have people sign a form agreeing to such conditions when they send a unit in for repair, but many don't. In that case, they are obligated to return the original unit. In the absence of an agreement to the contrary, the company doesn't get to set a policy unilaterally. Such transactions are governed by law.

    3. Re:Pretty common... by linzeal · · Score: 1
      Um no.

      I worked for a company that produced some of the first consumer NAS devices with media server capability and we were told that we could be sued if we stole, deleted or corrupted the customer's data on the hard drives. We backed them up before we did anything and if needed we gave them new hard drives. What is said in public about stipulations this and that is for show, the companies know that in some cases it only takes one pissed customer to ruin them.

    4. Re:Pretty common... by KyoMamoru · · Score: 1

      Places I've worked with such policies: [You're giving up rights to effectively everything the moment you leave/send the item.] 1. Best Buy. 2. Sprint. 3. Various Small Businesses.

    5. Re:Pretty common... by johannesg · · Score: 1

      Really? What happens if you bring in your car for repairs: do you also get another one back? One that is "comparable" by some nebulous standard?

    6. Re:Pretty common... by mpe · · Score: 1

      Anytime you send something into service/repair for -any- company, regardless of what industry they are, you waive rights to that current hardware.

      Actually this is generally not the case. Becuase the "law of the land" considers that the specific machine in question is and continues to be the customer's personal property. Unless they have agreed otherwise. Even such an agreement is unlikely to protect the company if they enguage in theft or vandalism...

  10. Open Source Artwork? by infonography · · Score: 1

    If it's not Microsoft IP then it doesn't get out of the building.

    Personally I would give a half eaten French Fry and all the change I can find in couches in teh lounge at Caltech for the identity of the person who clean off that artwork.

    BTW, the French Fry came that way. ( I got if off RMS)

    --
    Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
  11. Is scrubbing the case standard procedure? by erroneus · · Score: 1

    From a 'repair' standpoint, most repair people I've dealt with wouldn't bother to clean the case regardless of any internal repairs done to this machine.

    The article failed to mention what was wrong with the unit specifically and yes, it makes a difference.

    I have to wonder if "cleaning the case" is part of standard operating procedure.

    This doesn't seem right somehow.

    1. Re:Is scrubbing the case standard procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's too far fetched. I've never worked in a repair place, but is it possible cleaning the machines is automated?

      It's probably some kind of value added crap. "We fixed your X-Box, and while we were at it, we cleaned off the pen marks your little brother drew on it." 99.9999% of the time, cleaning the outside of the case would be a nice touch.

    2. Re:Is scrubbing the case standard procedure? by KillzoneNET · · Score: 1

      Microsoft's return service isn't a repair job but more of a "turn in your old unit, get back a new one" deal. What you get back is a system that is not originally yours. You may get back saves but the old system is probably refurbished/discarded for potential profit.

      Honestly the guy should of just bought a new system.

    3. Re:Is scrubbing the case standard procedure? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Standard procedure is to put new cases onto refurbished hardware

      That must be why car repairs are so expensive, every time they change the oil they have to replace the whole body of the car!

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  12. Sorry But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    He should have paid for the repairs out of his own pocket and located an authorized local service center, where he could carry in the XBOX for service. Maybe Microsoft XBOX repairs don't work this way, but if it meant so much to me, then I would have done everything possible to make sure that I found a certified local technician who would do things my way, even if it meant paying for the needed repairs instead of having the machine repaired free through the warranty.

    Sometimes things that suck just happen and the problem can't be fixed.

    1. Re:Sorry But... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      After he's replaced all those signatures, next time the thing breaks down I bet he gets hold of another case and swaps it out for his signed one before he sends it in for repairs. It's what he should have done in the first place. Actually, if it were me, I'd have bought a console for the explicit purpose of collecting signatures. Then, once I had them I'd put the console back in the original box and store it safely away. One day I'd bring it out and sell it on EBay for fifty grand. Or maybe it would be worth nothing, the collector game is iffy at best. But I wouldn't use it in my living room as my regular game system and still call it a "collector's item." If it has such significant value (monetary, personal, or both) then protect it.

      Your typical big repair center (and I don't care what name-brand company you're talking about) is a contract operation staffed by overworked people struggling to get the shit out the door. Microsoft's maybe more than most given the reliability problems they've had. The reality is, bitching about special requirements is pointless: if you actually receive a working unit you should count yourself lucky.

      So the phone rep should have told him flatly "we can't guarantee compliance with special requirements." Granted, the guy was naive in expecting special treatment, regardless of what the phone rep said, but nevertheless the rep made a promise. Microsoft should make some restitution, if nothing else for the PR value.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  13. I don't know that it was spiteful by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Probably was just bad communication. So I'm guessing under normal procedure, you don't necessairily get your old Xbox 360 back. They may send you a different one they reconditioned (or perhaps a new one if that isn't available). That way if your problem ends up being something that takes longer to fix, or ends up being something unfixable, you aren't sitting around waiting for a long time as they figure that out.

    Now that'd be pretty normal procedure for returns. Quite often when I've had to return something, I've gotten a different unit returned to me. They recieve the part, verify that it is defective, that the warranty does cover it, and then ship out a replacement so I don't have to wait. The one I sent in then gets sent over to the repair shop to look at and they do with it whatever they wish to. I'm happy since I have my item back quickly. In fact some companies even allow for cross ship. eVGA will allow you to buy enhanced warranties so that they'll ship you out a card, then once you get it you ship the old one back. Cuts down on your downtime that way.

    So, I'm guessing that is MS's normal procedure. Now in this case, they got it noted that the guy wanted his orignal box back and said "no problem, we can do that." However, the reason he did, or maybe even that he did, never got sent down the line. So it goes to repairs, gets fixed, and then there's some guy who's job it is to clean them up and make them look nice. He hasn't been told this picture is supposed to stay, for all he know somebody's kid was scribbling on it. His job is to clean up the boxes, which he does.

    The shipping department then gets the box back from repairs, matches it up to go back to the original owner since they have instructions to that effect, and he gets his unfortunately cleaned 360.

    I really doubt that anyone would have done this out of spite. All other MS conspiracy theories aside, they LOVE the Red vs Blue guys. They've had them do promotions for launches and so on. This isn't a case of a Tux penguin or something that might go against their corporate culture, this is something that is supportive of MS all the way.

    I'd just bet on bad communication in trying to do something that isn't normal procedure.

    1. Re:I don't know that it was spiteful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't necessairily get your old Xbox 360 back.

      If they don't give you the same one (or one with the harddrive swapped and the internal serial numbers and crypto keys duplicated) then you lose all the downloaded stuff you paid for.

    2. Re:I don't know that it was spiteful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the repair center is in Texas, and has a lot of non-native English speakers working there who may not have been able to fully understand a written work order saying that the case should be left as-is.

      Also, please don't take this as being racist in any way, it's just that people who don't natively speak a language probably don't have a good chance of being able to read it well.

    3. Re:I don't know that it was spiteful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely anything you've downloaded and paid for is stored as a component of your Xbox Live account? So once you set up a new console with your old Live account, you have access to all the same stuff again? Yeah, it'll be slightly inconvenient to have to download it, but you've obviously waited to download it once so if you have to you could again. In this case, you haven't completely lost what you've paid for, it's just temporarily unavailable while you download it again.

      Please note, before you flame me, I'll warn you I'm not a 360 owner. I'm just making assumptions that Xbox Live downloads are similar in theory to Steam (ie I bought Orange Box retail, that is now registered to my Steam account, if I reformat my PC and happen to have lost the DVD I can still download it. I can also download it on my work PC if I fancy a quick game and don't have the disc with me, etc).

  14. Which isn't surprising by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That is SOP for every shop I've ever dealt with for exchanges. In 99.999% of cases what the customer wants is a working replacement as fast as possible. They don't care if it is their unit, they care that it is a working unit that arrives quickly.

    In fact with some premium support packages, it is explicit. For example at work we contract with MPC to provide our computers. Part of that is we get good support. Something breaks, I send them an e-mail saying "This part on this serial number is broken, I want a new one." They then send me a replacement, via next day air. I install it and get it working, then send them back the old one (which they pay shipping for) when I've got time. Net effect is we get computer fixed for people much faster. I don't care that it isn't the same motherboard or RAM or whatever that was in there before. It just needs to be one that is the same model and thus does the same job.

    A case like this is very unusual. Most people are made the happiest by the fastest turnaround in getting a fixed part, which often means giving them a part you already fixed.

    1. Re:Which isn't surprising by mpe · · Score: 1

      In fact with some premium support packages, it is explicit. For example at work we contract with MPC to provide our computers. Part of that is we get good support. Something breaks, I send them an e-mail saying "This part on this serial number is broken, I want a new one."

      In which case they are specifically requesting a replacement.

      They then send me a replacement, via next day air. I install it and get it working, then send them back the old one (which they pay shipping for) when I've got time. Net effect is we get computer fixed for people much faster. I don't care that it isn't the same motherboard or RAM or whatever that was in there before. It just needs to be one that is the same model and thus does the same job.

      In the case of DRM or ofter "copy protection" which uses some kind of embedded serial number then something which is simply of the "same model" may well not do the same job.

      A case like this is very unusual. Most people are made the happiest by the fastest turnaround in getting a fixed part, which often means giving them a part you already fixed.

      The "most people want X" is reasonable when the customer dosn't give explicit instructions that they want something else to happen. (Including if they specifically request what would have happened anyway.) However in this case it does appear that the customer had agreed that something else would happen.
      An interesting aside is that some "swap outs" actually change to "collect and repair" where the case had some kind of indelible security marking. (You can even get the situation where if you mark every internal component with "Smart Water", but put none on the case the warentee is still "swap out"...)

  15. I love some of the comments about markers by AsmordeanX · · Score: 1

    I love some of the comments about permanent markers. Apparently those people have no idea what acetone (nail polish remover / paint thinner) does to a Jiffy. Permanent markers are about as permanent as a fart when it comes to that stuff.

    1. Re:I love some of the comments about markers by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      Good point, but even isopropil alcohol will remove most if not all brands of "permanent" markers. And to be honest, I think it's much more likely they use a mixture of isopropilene and water, to clean these boxes, rather than acetone.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  16. Adding insult to injury by blind+biker · · Score: 1

    ...he probably got someone else's broken Xbox360.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:Adding insult to injury by supernova_hq · · Score: 1

      And someone else probably got his broken Xbox360.
      Just imagine the other guy: "What is with all these marks on my case?!?"

  17. ack backwards the title is by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Must...stop...playing...xbox...and...get...sleep...

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  18. Hanlon's Razor says... by ShinySteelRobot · · Score: 1

    Sometimes electronic components (such as Xboxes I presume) get a bit scuffed during the repair process. There's probably some quality control guy in the outsourced MS Xbox repair center whose job is to "clean up" any newly-repaired Xbox before the box is shipped back to the owner. A quick wipe with an acetone-soaked rag will remove any permanent ink, paint, etc. in a jiffy. Sure it's stupid to clean the exterior for an obviously intentionally-decorated case, but hey, he was just doing his job.

    "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor

  19. Re:school of life by timmarhy · · Score: 1

    save your mod points for the gnaa trolls you morons.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  20. Imagine this with your computer by malfist · · Score: 1

    For those of you who say that it's not really M$'s fault or let M$ off the hook, imagine if you sent your PC with it's side windows and lights and organized cables into a company for repairs. Now imagine that you get back a potentially older PC, more prone to failure in a solid beige case. What would you do?

    1. Re:Imagine this with your computer by sleazyrider · · Score: 1

      Pff. If my computer were that well built/organized/customized by myself, it's sure not going in to some "repair facility" for some minimum wage hack to mess with it. I'd be doing the repairs myself. Then again, I understand the level of incompetence in most tech shops and trust my work much more highly. That doesn't even take into account the possibility of them cruising thru the hard drive looking for stuff to copy for their use.

  21. Am I the only one that thinks that ... by Sepiraph · · Score: 1

    if the specific Xbox was valuable to you, why would you risk even sending in it for repair in the first place. Personally I'd rather spend the $ and get another one versus having the risk of getting the original unit damaged, stolen, or lost.

    Applying common sense and Murphy's Law can really save you a lot of headache and grief in life.

    1. Re:Am I the only one that thinks that ... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      He's only a kid. I guess he's learned a valuable lesson.

  22. Jesus Christ by fat+bastard+of+doom · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not to be a dick, but generally when you send something for warranty work you are 1) not guaranteed to get the exact same item back. When discussing the legal aspects of a situation like this, it is generally a type of bailment known as a mutuum. Essentially, you are not guaranteed the return of the exact system that you sent in, in the same way that if you borrow a cigarette from a friend and pay him back, he might reasonably expect that you replace his Marlboro Red with a Marlboro Red and not a Camel, but he knows not to expect the return of the exact same cigarette. Also, you can consider a neighbor borrowing sugar from you. The exact wording of the warranty contract will determine whether this is the case. 2) often advised in the wording to the warranty that any aftermarket enhancements will not be returned to you. In this case things like faceplates, stickers, and such. When sending in systems for warranty repair you are generally advised not to send any memory cards, cabling, or controllers, or you will not get them back. When dealing with warranty work with cellular phones, often you are asked to remove your battery, battery cover, and faceplate, because you will not get it back. Without having a copy of the warranty contract in front of me, I have no way of knowing, but chances are this guy doesn't have a leg to stand on.

  23. autograph cover by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    It seems like now would be a good time to introduce my patent protected book cover for the Xbox 360.

    It consists of a few plastic panels that clip over the box making it appear as natural as possible. But you can snap them off to protect your artwork when traveling or sending the system off for repair.

    Actually, I don't have a patent but I had this going since the Atari 64 so I claim prior art on anyone wanting to block people from making them. I originally made the so it would be easy to hide the artwork of my kid sister's hours alone with a marker (that was actually only 10 minutes but she was fast) when I was watching her. Then I found that making them for other things and putting my own art on them so I could switch them out when I wanted to give it a different look. They are easy to make, and you can find the materials at most hardware and craft stores. A heat gun and a element out of an old electric hear makes molding it a cake. Careful though, heating it too much can cause bubbles and sags.

    1. Re:autograph cover by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

      Nifty idea. could you elaborate on how you make the case?
      thanks

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    2. Re:autograph cover by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It isn't that difficult, but it would probable take too much space here and you would benefit from picture more then me simply saying apply heat to bend the plastic the right way. The key is that lexan and plexiglass and other types of plastics are pliable with heat added. You can either make a mold of the device and heat and bend the stuff to match that or if your careful, you can form it over the existing units. for something like the Xbox, you would simply want thin material to work with. As for pains and stuff, I would use a vinyl dye as a base then add regular paints over it. The dye sticks to the plastic better and provides something to regilar model paint to bond to.

      For the claps to hold them on, I have used different things depending on what was available and what the shape was. Picture hander material works good in some cases and simple gluing small magnet strips in others. Make sure if you use magnets, keep them as close to the edges as possible, I don't think it would be a good idea to introduce a magnetic field to the processing or rom units. I don't know if it would cause a problem either. You can also go for the machined leather and bolt it together with straps and bolts. That also makes me think that one in a brown-tan leather cover that looks like an old Corset or something.

      Maybe sometime soon, when I get some time and actually remember, I can make one and take photo's and post it somewhere. I'm not sure others haven't thought about this though. Case moddigg, even for the Xbox and other consoles has been around for a while now.

  24. Re:Finally a quality story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    No shit.

    News for losers, stuff that doesn't matter...

  25. Sweet! by Ristol · · Score: 1

    Looks like some lucky guy who sends in his xbox for repairs is gonna get a refurbished one with a really cool case!

    --
    What wouldn't Jesus do?!
  26. Acetone? You must be kidding.. by cheros · · Score: 1

    Acetone dissolves ABS based plastics (which is what 99% of the plastic of computer cases is based on).

    Anyone touching the outer casing with acetone is prone to make a mess of it. Anything BUT acetone is fine. If you're trying to remove sticky labels , lighter fuel is the thing to use (basically very clean petrol - anyone amy idea how they get it this clean) - also excellent to zap chewing gum stains.

    Disclaimer: no expert on flammable liquids but damn well on plastic..

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  27. This is too easy! by saladpuncher · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Come on marketing and PR department of Redmond, even I know the answer to this one and I haven't ever taken a class in marketing or sucking up.
    1. Issue a statement of apology explaining that you will get to the bottom of the problem.
    2. Go ahead and look for the Xbox (but secretly you know this is futile and the box is next to the Ark or was really cleaned).
    3. Contact the complaining customer and ask him what signatures were on the Xbox.
    4. Contact the artists that signed the box. Make a big PR festival out of it! Have Bill Gates (or heck...anyone famous will do) take a brand new Xbox to each artist and have them sign it.
    5. Send the Xbox back to the kid. No wait, have Bill Gates deliver it in person. Film the whole thing and put it on youtube, etc.
    6. PR disaster averted and gold stars for everyone.

    The media would eat this up and the free publicity would be worth its weight in cheetos.

    1. Re:This is too easy! by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1

      This sucks, but I think the guy was being a bit naive personally. If he went to a small time local repair shop and got this treatment I'd be more surprised. When you're dealing with a system that is made to handle a high volume of requests you can't expect personally-tailored service - that would be much too expensive for a company to maintain.

      Probably the issue tracking system and everything else down the line lacks the ability to account for personal requests: You send in a broken box, they send back a fixed box. I wouldn't even expect the same physical unit to come back, personally. I'm curious how purchased content is handled, though, in the case of a drive failure.

      Anyway, I think the guy had an unrealistic expectation, but then again maybe I've just lowered my expectations of big companies too far. I'm left wondering how this made front page news on slashdot, too.

    2. Re:This is too easy! by Inverted+Intellect · · Score: 1

      Honestly, does no one RTFA?

      there are slight smudges where there used to be signatures. It's not a new case, They just cleaned it. Thus, finding the "old" case is not the issue, this is completely irreversible and the only option is to give some sort of recompensation.

    3. Re:This is too easy! by S.O.B. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This sucks, but I think the guy was being a bit naive personally. If he went to a small time local repair shop and got this treatment I'd be more surprised. When you're dealing with a system that is made to handle a high volume of requests you can't expect personally-tailored service - that would be much too expensive for a company to maintain.

      Probably the issue tracking system and everything else down the line lacks the ability to account for personal requests: You send in a broken box, they send back a fixed box. I wouldn't even expect the same physical unit to come back, personally. I'm curious how purchased content is handled, though, in the case of a drive failure.


      I would agree with you if he hadn't contacted Microsoft beforehand. That fact that he called to verify if they could satisfy his request shows that he wasn't naive. I believe the call centre rep that told him it would be OK was where the mistake was made. I think everyone else in the repair chain did the job they were trained to do.

      Anyway, I think the guy had an unrealistic expectation, but then again maybe I've just lowered my expectations of big companies too far. I'm left wondering how this made front page news on slashdot, too.


      If a story makes Slashdot then it's on the front page. Unlike a newspaper websites don't have a "back page" in the traditional sense.
      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
    4. Re:This is too easy! by Mendy · · Score: 1

      The media would eat this up and the free publicity would be worth its weight in cheetos. No sane business would do this as it goes against the "our liability shall be the value of the device" clause that is used in almost all situations of this kind. They would end up with thousands of letters from people claiming to have told a technician that their XBox was say, filled with precious saved games and demanding compensation for their "lost time" when the device is wiped during the repair process.

      Also we don't know that what is said to have happened happened. For all we know it could have been...

      Step 1) Take photos of autographed XBox
      Step 2) Post in normal, undecorated XBox with a few smudges
      Step 3) Profit (hopefully)

      If this situation were to come up again the correct thing would be to ask either "Can I send in my XBox without a case" or "Can I swap the case with another device" - I'm not saying that this is less likely to go horribly wrong at the factory, in all likelihood they'd refuse to repair it but then you can complain about having been told differently while not having lost your precious doodles.
    5. Re:This is too easy! by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      Come on marketing and PR department of Redmond, even I know the answer to this one and I haven't ever taken a class in marketing or sucking up.
      1. Issue a statement of apology explaining that you will get to the bottom of the problem.
      2. Go ahead and look for the Xbox (but secretly you know this is futile and the box is next to the Ark or was really cleaned).
      3. Contact the complaining customer and ask him what signatures were on the Xbox.
      4. Contact the artists that signed the box. Make a big PR festival out of it! Have Bill Gates (or heck...anyone famous will do) take a brand new Xbox to each artist and have them sign it.
      5. Send the Xbox back to the kid. No wait, have Bill Gates deliver it in person. Film the whole thing and put it on youtube, etc.
      6. PR disaster averted and gold stars for everyone.

      The media would eat this up and the free publicity would be worth its weight in cheetos. I hate myself for saying this, I hate myself for agreeing with it because it sounds like such marketing hackery but it's true: "A screwup is an opportunity to impress the customer by how you fix it." People hope they'll get good service the first time around and maybe they will, maybe they won't. If they happen to get bad service/broken product/etc, they'll assume that they're going to have to eat the cost because the business is too dysfunctional to rectify the problem. Fix it right, it would be exactly like you said.

      But we all know why it won't happen, of course. Nobody at Microsoft gives a flying fuck. I've worked in companies just like that. I was at this homebuilder and they screwed up the features on a guy's house, he asked for the most expensive column upgrade on his porch and it was built with standard. that's $10k right there. What was specified in the system? The right column. What was built? The wrong one. It was obvious to anyone not even involved that there was an egregious mistake on the company's part and the customer had every right to expect satisfaction. What did the project manager say? "Fuck him." Haha. Ok, how are we going to fix it? "Fuck him." No, seriously, what are we going to do, tear it out and put the right ones in or offer a refund? "Do you not speak English? Fuck him. He's not getting a refund, he's not getting new columns, he's going to keep what he has and shut the fuck up."

      This was in a privately-held company of around 150 people, only two people between the owner and that project manager. This isn't some humongous Microsoft where there's fifty people between Gates and the dick on the phone. If the owner cared about his business, he'd have found out about this pissy attitude and done something about it. He didn't care, the money was rolling in just fine thanks to the real estate boom. The company's imploding now and he's wondering why that is. He was an absentee boss and had dicks working for him. This fish rotted from the top down. I'm sure Microsoft's offices smell like a Deep One orgy.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  28. Of course this probably could have been avoided... by Spatial · · Score: 1

    If Microsoft didn't base the 360's thermal design on the EZ-Bake Oven.

  29. The biggest issue here is the MS quality. by miffo.swe · · Score: 1

    The real problem is that Microsoft has released the Windows version of a gaming console. No amount of service can make up for that.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
  30. stupid by newr00tic · · Score: 0, Troll

    Why couldn't the cocksucker just keep the 'novel' xbox in a broken state, and buy an ordinary to play with? - Fucking idiot..

    --
    A horse can't be sick, you know, even if he wants to.
  31. Who dunnit? by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 1

    I bet the Monkey Dancer took the case.

  32. What I woulda done by TheSambassador · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would have bought a new 360, switched the cases (unless this voids any warranty... ugh), sent the broken 360 in, then switched them back and return the extra 360.

  33. Should have bought a new one... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's as simple as that.

    The whole idea of sending a customized anything to a central repair place screams out for a "whatcouldpossiblygowrong" tag. The box may be special to you, but it isn't to them. You can't expect major manufacturers to spend extra time/money on you just because you decided to paint your box a different color. The world doesn't work that way.

    Buy a new Xbox, swap the innards. Xbox all fixed.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Should have bought a new one... by Cocopjojo · · Score: 0

      Voiding your warranty in the process.

      And of course sending it off was asking for trouble. Which is why he confirmed with a support agent and then even attached a letter.

      The moment that the support agent promised that it would be returned safely is the moment that it ceased to be the kid's problem and immediately became MS's problem. Period.

    2. Re:Should have bought a new one... by vieux+schnock · · Score: 1

      Indeed. The gaming industry and affiliated repair shops don't have the equivalent of "The American Garage" were you can send you modded toy for a tweak while getting oooh's and aaaah's for the kids who pump gas.

    3. Re:Should have bought a new one... by gregorio · · Score: 1

      The whole idea of sending a customized anything to a central repair place screams out for a "whatcouldpossiblygowrong" tag. The box may be special to you, but it isn't to them. You can't expect major manufacturers to spend extra time/money on you just because you decided to paint your box a different color. The world doesn't work that way.
      Even better: he could have gotten a case from a defective Xbox at eBay and replaced them before sending to the repair shop.
    4. Re:Should have bought a new one... by syousef · · Score: 1

      The whole idea of sending a customized anything to a central repair place screams out for a "whatcouldpossiblygowrong" tag.

      That whole sentence screams out for a "you're spending too much time on slashdot" reply.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    5. Re:Should have bought a new one... by bulliver · · Score: 1

      You can't expect major manufacturers to spend extra time/money on you just because you decided to paint your box a different color. The world doesn't work that way.

      Right. Except that the guy contacted Xbox support and was told by the agent that his special request was not a problem.

      --
      Support the mob or mysteriously disappear.
  34. Can I take polaroids to gaming conventions? by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Informative

    Having a fancy box at a gaming conventions, etc. is cool (and he does go to them - that's where he got the signatures), having a few polaroids to show people isn't.

    But yes, he should have bought a new Xbox and switched the case. Expecting a mass-market repair center to spend extra time/money on you just because you painted your Xbox a different color is, ummm, "unrealistic".

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Can I take polaroids to gaming conventions? by Fourier404 · · Score: 1

      But it's cooler to have a signed xbox that works.

    2. Re:Can I take polaroids to gaming conventions? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      But it's cooler to have a signed xbox that works.

      That's why the gransparent said to switch the case. Then you've got a signed XBox that works.

      And perhaps you can even send the broken XBox with the new case to Microsoft's scrubbing center to get fixed. Then you've got 2 XBoxes, one of them still signed. Sell one, and you didn't even lose any money (beyond whatever that repair costs). But it's a lot of hassle, so if Microsoft tells the kid this isn't necessary, why shouldn't he believe them?

  35. Too boring and predictable by Renderer+of+Evil · · Score: 5, Funny

    It would be better if Sony jumped on this and gave him a PS3, signed by Bono, The Pope, and bunch of other A-List celebrities. That's called a PR coup.

    1. Re:Too boring and predictable by sootman · · Score: 1
      You've got a +5, Funny but something like that really happened:

      When Disney discovered in 1989 that three Hallandale, Florida, day care centers had 5-foot-high likenesses of trademarked Disney characters such as Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse, and Goofy painted on their walls, Disney threatened to go to court if the centers did not remove the drawings. The threat of legal action did not need to be carried out, as the centers replaced the drawings with cartoon characters belonging to Universal Studios Florida and Hanna-Barbera Productions, who volunteered the use of their character art as part of a publicity ploy...
       
      Universal, still smarting from the early opening of [Disney MGM Studios in Orlando, FL]... saw in the day care controversy a way to seize some publicity for themselves and give Disney a bad name in Florida as part of the bargain. Accordingly, Universal Studios Florida and Hanna-Barbera Productions offered the centers the use of characters from their own cartoons, such as Scooby-Doo, the Flintstones, the Jetsons, and Yogi Bear. Universal and Hanna-Barbera then held a special ceremony showcasing the newly-redecorated day care centers at the Temple Messanique on 8 August 1989, attended by costumed characters and executives from both organizations.
      Sony still has time. They should jump all over this.
      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    2. Re:Too boring and predictable by Tpl2000 · · Score: 1

      Better still, if Nintendo had Koji Kondo and Mario sign a special Wii and send it to him =\

      --
      Epic. Just epic.
  36. I'm not surprised by jeremyp · · Score: 3, Informative
    The linked article itself contains a link with a photograph of the other side if the X-Box on it. Two choice comments written on the box stand out:

    Don't put too much ink on me, I might overheat
    and

    360? More like three shitsty!
    Why is anybody surprised that Microsoft decided not to preserve his "artwork"?
    --
    All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  37. I doubt it was malice... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    But unless the person you talk to on the phone is the exact same person who's going to open the package and do the repair work (which it won't be, ever...) then don't expect things like this to work out.

    As for putting a special piece of paper in the box with instructions on it? Not very realistic either.

    --
    No sig today...
  38. in other news by dario_moreno · · Score: 4, Funny

    100 people died in Iraq, 20 000 Africans died of Aids, 20 species went extinct, 10 millions of tons of CO2 were emitted, BUT THEY ERASED GRAFFITI ON AN XBOX !! where is the FBI when needed ?

    --
    Google passes Turing test : see my journal
    1. Re:in other news by mattgoldey · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should be reading and commenting in the forums over on cnn.com, then. Here at Slashdot, we talk about geekery.

    2. Re:in other news by Kamineko · · Score: 1

      Maybe the FBI sent off an ordinary Xbox 360 for repair and received the signed one back as a replacement. They're all too busy playing it.

    3. Re:in other news by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 1

      where is the FBI when needed ?
      Why? Did someone make an unauthorized copy of something?
      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
  39. Slashdot - where else by tuomoks · · Score: 0

    I just hope that when you take your custom painted car to service you don't complain when other side of car is wiped clean. Or send your signed camera body for adjustment, signature is gone and the value did go down %80+! Or send an oil painting for frame fixing and instead of the original Van Gogh get back a painting from some local artist - it is an oil painting, even new and fresh!, what you are complaining. Or maybe an old photograph for restoration and they do so good job that clean all the text and names out of it - they definitely are not part of a photograph! And so on.. Actually all these are examples where the company doing the job had to pay, and most of time a lot because those can't get back. I also hope that you are not on the receiving end when telling a Harley Davidson guy that you just cleaned the paintings out of gas tank for extra service when fixing the valves.

    1. Re:Slashdot - where else by couchslug · · Score: 1

      When I have such items I ride herd on the process and don't send them off to a mass repair center. (In the cases of my Harley and trucks, I do the work myself. Ya want it your way, learn to do it your way, or pay painful prices to people who will humor your wants and do it for you.

      None of your examples are valid comparisons to a cheap consumer appliance. If I send a toaster in for warranty, it is not unreasonable to get back a replacement toaster.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  40. As a gesture of goodwill... by mr_lizard13 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...they should give him a free HD-DVD drive

    --
    "We live in a global world" - Harvey Pitt, former Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman
  41. more xbox1s will be alive in 2015 than 360s by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    At this given rate, I bet 99% of all xbox1s will be alive and well in 2015, even though far out of date, they might still be usefull for some, but still WORKING, when
    all 360s will probably die by then.

    Maybe thats MS idea along, built in planned obsolescence through product self death like cloths. Genius!!

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  42. You Don't Even Need a New 360 by loganrapp · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Just buy a second case.


    You're intending to keep this for a long time, so for a couple of years you just have an empty case. When the XBOX 720 or whatever comes out, 360s will be a lot cheaper and you can put your old 360 in there or buy a new one to fill out the case.

    I haven't looked into it deeply, but I saw that custom clear cases were $50 or so. How much could a stock case really cost?

    Just poor planning, really. If you wanted to get signatures of all major developers and felt it important to preserve that, then, y'know, put that thing in a protective box and never open it.

    1. Re:You Don't Even Need a New 360 by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      Removing the case voids the warranty. He would have to pay for the repairs. Frankly, I think the guy is an idiot. I don't know why he expected to get the same case back.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    2. Re:You Don't Even Need a New 360 by rnelsonee · · Score: 3, Informative

      ... it's because he was promised he would. And for the record, he *did* get the same case back. That's the 'WTF' point of the article - he got the same case back, but it the artwork was intentionally and very deliberately removed. I was going to complain that the parent of your post didn't RTFA (because the warranty was cited there as the reason for not opening the case), which means he shouldn't be responding to the article in the first place, but it looks like you didn't either. Sheesh.

    3. Re:You Don't Even Need a New 360 by rickatnight11 · · Score: 0

      His warranty was already expired.

    4. Re:You Don't Even Need a New 360 by loganrapp · · Score: 1
      Looks like you didn't read my post, either, champ.


      Buy a case specifically for signatures. The case is empty. You have that case signed. You never crack open the 360. When you're done playing on the 360 for good or it's well past warranty, then you put the signature case onto the machine. That he put signatures on a case for a 360 he's playing on was his first big mistake. Ergo: "Just poor planning, really." It's okay, we all like to half-read posts and feel superior.

      Furthermore, it doesn't matter what Microsoft says. Even if they told you "we'll take care of your baby, don't worry," I'm not going to send out my precious item to them if there is anything different about it than what came off the assembly line. There's always a chance it'll get lost in the mail, or a note gets put in wrong in the system for this repair, or the help desk giving the wrong information, or the QA people missing that the help desk gave the wrong information...

      With all those variables, A) Why are you trusting the left hand to know what the right hand is doing in a major corporation involving one customer's repair, B) Why are you putting your precious cargo in the mail at all?, and oh, yeah, C) Why the hell are you putting signatures on a 360 case that's currently in use? I don't play football with my fucking Johnny U jersey. That's retarded.

  43. Similiar Situation.. by JohnnyOpcode · · Score: 0

    I have an original XBox Cystal Edition. It died, and I called MS repair. When I was about to complete the process, I told them that I had the Crystal Edition, and asked if the 'refirbished' unit they would send out to me would also be the same model..NOP! Everybody gets a nice black XBox. I wonder if I have a 360 Elite or Halo Edition needing repair (like that might ever happen), would I get the same back or some basic model. It's a big money sucking machine that everyday I feel less inclined to support.

  44. How to Write a Business Letter (or email) by 26199 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is unfortunate ... but perhaps an opportunity to discuss how to write for results.

    Actions that you are requesting need to be immediately obvious.

    The rest of the letter can be junk. The first few lines should have said "please do not clean or replace my XBOX cover", probably in bold.

    You can't expect people to read a story. (In this case even a clear letter probably wouldn't have helped, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt).

  45. I read this on digg yesterday by Megane · · Score: 1

    After having read everything, here's what I have to say about this all:

    First off, those of you who are screaming "TEHY SOTLE TEH ARTWORKZZZZ", this was probably repaired in Mexico by people who care more about not losing their job, probably a wonderfully good (for Mexico) couple of bucks an hour, than they do about some crappy Sharpie marker art on a case.

    1) The kid was wrong to expect that one contracted arm of The Beast that is Microsoft would know the details about what another contracted arm of The Beast was doing. There's a reason they tell you to keep your faceplate and hard drive when you send it back in the coffin.

    2) He enclosed a tl;dr whine letter in freaking ENGLISH. No habla Ingles, gringo. And even if they did know English, these repairs are probably so assembly-lined that they wouldn't have time to read it anyhow.

    3) The cleaning was apparently part of standard procedure. And lots of things will clean off Sharpie markers, especially on a hard non-porous surface. Most people who work at offices know that you can clean Sharpie markers off of whiteboards by writing over it with a whiteboard marker. The guy probably started cleaning it, then freaked out when it streaked like crazy. At that point all he could do was finish the job. And for those who say "TEH MARKZZ ARE IN TEH WRONG PLACEZ", that's because the cleaning would have been done with big wide sweeps all over the sides. And one of the side-by-side comparison pictures was comparing the wrong sides.

    4) Apparently it was worth less than $270 or whatever the price of an Arcade Edition is, or the kid would have bought one and put the other on the shelf. As someone said, if you get a football autographed, you don't play football with it, and you sure don't send it in to have the laces re-tightened. And the thing wasn't even covered by warranty (2 red lights, not 3 red lights), so it wouldn't have mattered if he swapped the case with another unit.

    5) And he got a freaking Xbox 360 autographed? Something where common wisdom is that the failure rate is around 30%? He might as well have had his butt autographed. And it's not like he didn't know; at least two of the signings specifically mentioned the 360's crappiness.

    So what to do about it? For those of you who scream "SUE SUE SUE!", this is why we can't have nice things. A lawsuit isn't going to get the art back. Here is what he should do:

    1) Get a broken Xbox 360 off of ebay or craigslist. You can't tell me there aren't any.

    2) Get said broken Xbox 360 signed. They probably know about this already at Bungie and Roosterteeth, so it shouldn't be too hard to get it re-signed by them.

    3) LEAVE THE BROKEN XBOX 360 BROKEN. That way you wouldn't be tempted to play it and have it break and need repairs again.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  46. Sigh by scubamage · · Score: 1

    Since its painfully apparant that most of you didn't read the RTFA, the customer went through the following steps: A) Contacting microsoft via phone and getting assurance that nothing would happen to the artwork, as well as instructions to ensure that the assurance was met. B) He included a letter with the microsoft including the unit serial number and an explanation of why the case needed to be returned.
    I can't blame the kid when he was given assurance from the company that his 360 would be returned in tact. Hell, I'd say he should at the very least file a grievance with the BBB, and at most try suing microsoft (its pretty much a slam dunk case these days, everyone is doing it).
    I suppose the real lessons are to be a pc gamer, and to not trust a thing microsoft says.

    1. Re:Sigh by Yosho · · Score: 1

      I suppose the real lessons are to be a pc gamer, and to not trust a thing microsoft says. Yes, instead of playing games on an Xbox 360, you should play them on Windows instead. That'll show Microsoft!
      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
    2. Re:Sigh by scubamage · · Score: 1

      Real men play nethack.

  47. Theft???? by Alien54 · · Score: 1
    What are the odds are that one of the guys at the repair shop saw the signatures and art work, realized what they were, swapped the case out for his own pleasure, and sent back a new cover manually dirtied etc to make the kid feel that it had been cleaned

    this would be fraud and theft of course, but no way to prove it.

    So the cost of replacement would be to the few thousands of dollars it would take to fly the kid around to get replacement signatures, not that this would happen.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:Theft???? by stickystyle · · Score: 1

      1 in 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 But thats just napkin math.

      --
      Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
  48. I Just Got One Like it on E-bay! by quakeaddict · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...and the guy said it was one of a kind.

    damn

    --
    I'm still working on a clever footer.
    1. Re:I Just Got One Like it on E-bay! by garyok · · Score: 1

      It is now.

      --
      One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors - Plato
  49. I paint these things by codepunk · · Score: 1

    I have painted / airbrushed quite a few of these things and it can be rather pricey depending
    on the artwork. I use automotive clear over them though so nobody is just going to be able to
    wipe it off. I cannot understand why someone would even think it is a good idea to clean
    off the artwork and signatures in this case....he should be mad.

    --


    Got Code?
  50. Uh... by Monoliath · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    ...who cares?

    Why, WHY is this NEWS!?!?

  51. Blind-leading-the-blind IANAL response :) by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    And this is probably one reason why so many company employees are forced to behave like inflexible jobsworths and give a rote answer.

    I'm not sure if what you say would stand up in a court of law, BTW. (Usual IANAL and YAPNALE (*) disclaimer for the following).

    If you've asked 19 people representing the same company and got the same answer, and then the 20th misinterprets the company policy and says something different, it could be argued that you *knew* the company's policy and position, and that you were intentionally fishing with the intention of getting someone to give you a mistaken answer and then using this as "proof".

    IMHO, I'd also question how you'd phrased the question you asked guy #20 (did you accidentally or *deliberately* mislead him) and how you interpreted his answer. The defence may well argue that you should have *known* by that stage that such employees would be bound by company policy- and that you also knew the company policy and were seeking to take advantage of one employee's genuine mistake.

    I don't know the legal position on this, but I suspect that a court would consider you were operating in bad faith and that the employee's mistake was not legally binding.

    In contrast to your (bad) analogy, this is *not* the same as repeatedly speaking to an employee regarding a contract and him changing his mind.

    Regardless of all that, given these doubts, even if employee #20's undertaking was authorised and not mistaken, it'd be gross stupidity *not* to get it in writing. Even if oral agreements are technically binding, there's so much open to question (and prone to misunderstanding) that I doubt you'd be able to prove it in court.

    (*) You are probably not a lawyer either :)

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    1. Re:Blind-leading-the-blind IANAL response :) by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      And this is probably one reason why so many company employees are forced to behave like inflexible jobsworths and give a rote answer.

      That's what supervisors are for.

  52. You get what you pay for by westlake · · Score: 1
    I just hope that when you take your custom painted car to service you don't complain when other side of car is wiped clean.

    You take your antiques and collectibles to a specialist. Someone who knows what needs to be done and what can be done without impairing their value. You negotiate a contract and get everything in writing. You pay whatever it costs to get the job done right.

  53. Sheesh, it's ARTWORK... by BUL2294 · · Score: 1

    Frankly, scrawlings & signatures on an XBox like that are a form of artwork. This is no different than taking a painting to a frame store and having them put a new frame on it. If the frame store damages the original artwork, or decides to "improve" it, they should be held liable for the diminished value of the potentially priceless artifact. So, why would an XBox, clearly containing some artistic work, being sent to Mexico for warranty work be any different???

    If I was this guy, I'd consider contacting the local DA's office to file criminal charges against Microsoft. At the very least, file a police report to get the process started. Intentionally damaging or stealing artwork (and this is clearly intentional) is often worse than doing the same to "normal" property--i.e. a microwave or TV.

    --
    Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
  54. To those who suggest case-switching: by magus_melchior · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He didn't buy a new Xbox because he couldn't afford one (or wanted to keep the stats on his old box), and switching cases with a new box would have voided the warranty on both— this is not something you'd want to do on a shoestring budget. He's not a Comic Book Store Guy-type collector, so he didn't get two boxes to begin with (which would've made the signed box CSR-proof).

    That said, surely he heard of all the RRoD horror stories, so perhaps working toward a second box should have been in his plans?

    If there's written evidence from Microsoft that promised him they wouldn't touch the signatures, there's no doubt that they are liable. It'll be quite a bit harder to prove without that.

    --
    "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
  55. Tagged! by donarb · · Score: 1

    What would be funny is some guy complains that someone at the repair center tagged his virgin white unit he sent in for repairs.

  56. God Damn... by Alari · · Score: 1

    So exactly how much money does it take to not suck? Because, clearly, Microsoft hasn't reached that fiscal goal yet... ("See, the M, that's sucking this ball here, and the S, that's sucking my other ball, so the M and the S are just sucking both my balls.")

    Granted, the guy may have gotten the results he actually wanted if he'd foregone the detailed letter and instead simply have taken one of those sharpies and written "Please do not clean" in English and Spanish on sheets of paper and taped that over the artwork he wanted to protect. But you know what they say about hindsight.

    --
    I use Windows... like a two dollar wh.. why don't I just go ahead and not finish that sentence.
  57. Mod up parent by msebast · · Score: 1

    This is the most insightful post in the entire thread. (Except the retard part, that's kind of rude.) I hate Microsoft as much as the next slashbot but really, the guys an idiot.

  58. Hold on to them... by deesine · · Score: 2, Funny

    in case you get married.

    --
    damaged by dogma
  59. Re:Microsoft never promised not touching the box by Herby+Sagues · · Score: 1

    I'm reading and rereading the article to find where Microsoft told him that the box wouldn't get cleaned, the artwork wouldn't get erased or that "everything would be OK". He called to ask if the box would be replaced or he would get his original box. Microsoft, according to the kid, promised to return the same box. That's it. And they did that. So where is it that Microsoft lied? Yes, the dork that cleaned the box with solvents (which is something that's done at the beginning of a repair process on any large repair facility) should have noticed that this was a special case, but after you cleaned a hundred machines one day, when you receive the 101 you just don't stop to read the print, you just apply the solvent soaked cloth to it without even looking. And this is assuming this is not an automated cleaning process. Microsoft repairs (rough calculation based on the number of units out there) about one XBox every ten seconds. It is even possible there's an "assembly line" like process where the machines are placed on a belt that cleans, opens and maybe runs quick diagnosis on the consoles. But it is easier to say that the "borg" has enough time and money to look at individual ways to screw customers one at a time.

  60. Let me get this straight... by ponraul · · Score: 1

    According to the fine article, this guy would just happen to have his XBox360 on hand at various events just so he could accost them to sign it. What a fucking sociopath.

    The fact his precious molded plastic case was cleaned makes me feel nothing but Schadenfreude: it serves him right for stalking people and placing so much value in a single piece of consumer electronics.

    I hope Microsoft summarily ignores this tool while he cries his crocodile tears. How could he not foresee that random parts would be replaced when he sent the console in for RMA service? He is faining outrage: the only reason for pretending to be outraged is to collect even more fabulous prises out of some-kind-of sense of communal outrage.

  61. Invalidation Of Warranty? by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
    Presumably if the XBox was covered in that many signatures, then it had been carried about a lot by the guy when taken to whatever events to get signed. Surely this would not be considered "reasonable" usage of an Xbox which would normally be placed under the TV and basically left there - so they should have invalidated his warranty.

    Sometimes I really wish a lot of the human race would just "grow up". This idea of worshipping "celebrities" is pathetic and serves to show what empty lives some people lead.

    By all means admire a musician for a great piece of music, an actor in a great film or even someone who programs a good game - but don't forget that in each case, you are PAYING them to entertain you, no different to paying a plumber for replacing a faulty washer in a tap.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  62. washing console by russianmafia · · Score: 1

    Why would Microsoft want to wash the device?

  63. He got ripped off by the.one.GeniX · · Score: 1

    My opinion : He got ripped off. Now there is a happy support service employee with a signed Xbox 360. He'll prolly sell it on ebay...

    --
    Same shit, different day
  64. Re:Look, I'm all for pissing on 360 reliability by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    Sorry it came across that way, I'd had a few drinks at the time of posting and was somewhat blunt - I still stand by the post though, it just doesn't feel like news that matters on an even remotely serious topic to me. :/

  65. it was stolen, not destroyed by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    An employee took the original, then marked up a fresh case and scrubbed it to make it look like the original was destroyed, so nobody would come looking for it.

  66. And you reject . . . by narsiman · · Score: 1

    news items that i submitted. Are the editors so bored that anything that remotely disses microsoft will be deemed newsworthy here. Thanks for this inane posting and I bite just to vent.