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Counterfeit Chips Raise New Terror, Hacking Fears

mattnyc99 writes "We've seen overtures by computer manufacturers to build in chip security before, but now Popular Mechanics takes a long look at growing worries over counterfeit chips, from the military and FAA to the Department of Energy and top universities. While there's still never been a fake-chip sabotage or info hack on America by foreign countries or rogue groups, this article suggests just how easy it would be for chips embedded with time-release cripple coding to steal data or bring down a critical network - and how that's got Homeland shaking in its boots (but not Bruce Schneier). While PopMech has an accompanying story on the possible end of cheap gadget manufacturing in China as inflation rates soar there, it's the global hardware business in general that has DoD officials freaking out over chips."

173 comments

  1. ARRRGH! TERROR! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    EVERYTHING is now a "terror threat".

    Do you suppose someone figured out that "terror" is a funding goldmine? That the way to ride this gravy-train was to pump up the volume on the "terror" megaphone?

    It's pretty funny - 'til the unintended consequences land you "in internal exile", or "extraordinary rendition".

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by corsec67 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just like how "think of the children" is a useful phrase for fucking over the American people's rights.

      "Free speech" - "Think of the children", by the FCC
      "Marijuana/drugs" - "Think of the children", by the DOJ

      So, combine "think of the children" and "terrorists", and the Constitution becomes irrelevant.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    2. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by SleepyHappyDoc · · Score: 4, Funny

      What about child terrorists?

      --
      Stasis is death. Embrace change.
    3. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's time we declare a "war on the children".

      Won't somebody think of the terrorists?

    4. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by davester666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's already been done. The megaphone's that Homeland Security uses have already been hacked. They say "everything's fine" into the megaphone, but the evil terrorist's have hacked all of them so what comes out is "There's a terrorist everywhere, including inside your basement and inside your cellphone. You aren't safe anywhere."

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    5. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by street+struttin' · · Score: 1

      AAAAHHHHH!!! Something Green! AHHHHHHH!!! Something NOT Green!

    6. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 1

      Sweet Merciful McGillicuddy, an Earthworm Jim fan.

      I use that line constantly, especially while watching the news and seeing the latest "terror" report.

      --
      I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
    7. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by Ucklak · · Score: 1

      That's right. "Think of the Children" right alongside getting these chips "Certified" and "Tamper Proof".

      --
      if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
    8. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      The law enforcement growth industry.
      http://deoxy.org/lawenfor.htm

      "Let's just say that those who don't study history are doomed to get their butts kicked by the geeks who do."
              --Kevyn http://www.schlockmercenary.com/

      And who would know history and how to rape the proletariat better than our two current parties?

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    9. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      So, combine "think of the children" and "terrorists", and the Constitution becomes irrelevant.

      I think the public is already cynical and jaded from overuse of these two expressions. What is needed now is an immediate putdown for them. Something snappy and to the point. Something like "The kids are alright." or "...and their 72 virgins." Once these reach meme status, the healing of western civilization (what's left of it) can begin.
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    10. Re:ARRRGH! TERROR! by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

      Strap a cat with buttered toast to your child terrorist and you either have the ultimate perpetual motion machine or the seeds of humanity's destruction.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  2. The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 5, Informative
    There's been a problem for many years, in which bolts whose heads are marked to indicate that they are high-strength, are actually made from cheaper low-grade steel, and are therefor counterfeit.

    A construction worker was killed while torguing such a bolt while building the Saturn car factory. The head tore off and he fell to his death.

    In the same article where I read this, a general complained that you could find broken bolts littering the ground in the path of tanks on training maneuvers.

    There is a way to test bolts for strength, but it's expensive.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would think this could be fixed by having an agreement with the manufacturer/provider that said they were financially liable if the material/product you received was not what you ordered.

    2. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by multisync · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A construction worker was killed while torguing such a bolt while building the Saturn car factory. The head tore off and he fell to his death.


      Where the hell was this plant being built? That worker should have been wearing fall protection.
      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    3. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Expensive? We did this in lab in engineering. You pull on the bolt until it fails. If I was building something I'd test one out of every 100. Just grab a random one and test it. If it fails way early put the entire shipment into hold.

    4. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is a way to test bolts for strength, but it's expensive.

      More expensive than wrongful-death compensation? Someone must have amortized this.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    5. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by arivanov · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is just for torque. This does not say anything about resistance to material fatigue and so on.

      Anyway, the only reason why Homeland Security is sh*** its pants on this is that the biggest spook sabotage achievement on USSR was apparently done this way when a gas pipeline blew up due to malfunctioning of counterfeit gear. However, we do not live in the 80-es. The computers and control gear has grown much more sophisticated and frankly, if anyone wants to plant such a bomb today they will do it in software. Much cheaper and much higher probability of success.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    6. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by pclminion · · Score: 1

      The failing bolt caused him to fall? What was he doing, leaning over an edge while putting all his weight on the wrench? The counterfeit bolt was part of the problem but it also sounds like they need to adjust their safe working practices. I don't mean to disparage the man who died. But that accident sounds like it could have been prevented even with the bogus bolt.

    7. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Many companies do this as a standard process. The company I work for does this more randomly and its not just the "first shipment", its all shipments period. The things they test are tested for long term endurance to make sure it doesn't just "look okay". Fairly rarely that they see a counterfit/etc, and pretty quickly that they get using inferior materials turned around too.

      Of course in China and whatnot the requirements are much lower.

    8. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is one simple time honored solution:

      Execute every manager and owner of a company found to engage in such corruption.

      Such corruption strikes at the very heart of civilized society, and it should be punished with ferocious justice. It is time people in positions of authority answer for their incompetence with their lives.

    9. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by veganboyjosh · · Score: 4, Funny

      That worker should have been wearing fall protection.

      YEAH! They make these special bolts, which are super strong...oh wait.

    10. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would think this could be fixed by having an agreement with the manufacturer/provider that said they were financially liable if the material/product you received was not what you ordered. Which means insurance, testing, paperwork (in triplicate at a minimum), inspections, etc etc etc.

      That'll significantly add to the cost when your price per unit is measured in pennies.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    11. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      So you bend them or twist them or pull them. Material properties of steel are pretty well known and they're all related by some fun math.

    12. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      lol you would be making a deal with the company not insuring each individual bolt. so cost per unit doesnt come into play.

    13. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >A construction worker was killed while torguing such a bolt while building the Saturn car factory. The head
      >tore off and he fell to his death.

      Even if it had not been a counterfeit bolt, it sounds like the root cause of the problem was the reliance on a single untested point of failure. The correct bolt could have failed in the same way. What was he doing? Bolting together the platform that he was standing on? Or using the wrench as the only thing between him and a deadly fall? What if it had been the wrench that broke, or he simply lost his grip? I hope there were more policy changes after that accident than merely vendor stuff.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    14. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      Software? You mean those 1s and 0s right? They could just compile a nice data stealer, link in all the dependencies (theres probably some CS term for self-sufficient code) and put it on a ROM. When the time comes, just start reading off the ROM over whatever was being executed before. Modern CPUs are way over my head, but I assume there's some sort of hyper advanced analogue to not checking for interrupts and running on bare metal. The program executes, the chip halts or lets the OS panic into catatonia when it realizes half its memory is different from what it was 1 cycle ago, and the russians or whoever have our data-- very slick, but I would imagine it would be extremely expensive to redesign the chips ~~~~

    15. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Which means insurance, testing, paperwork (in triplicate at a minimum), inspections, etc etc etc.

      That'll significantly add to the cost when your price per unit is measured in pennies.

      I agree, but space agencies have to deal with the extra costs due to electrical (and other related) components needing to be within more precise tolerances. Why not mission critical bolts? The space shuttle is held to the launch platform by two huge explosive bolts that only detonate and release the shuttle after the on-board computers determine all three main engines are fired up properly. How much is too much additional cost to ensure you don't lose a $1 billion+ space vehicle because of faulty bolts? I know that's an exceptional situation, but if the part in question is mission critical, it's design and manufacture needs to take that into account, as well as the cost.

    16. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by The+Anarchist+Avenge · · Score: 1

      Shit, who modded this funny? Sounds like a good idea for me, but that's because I'm just a bottom-level factory worker. We'll see how I feel once I've been promoted once or twice.

      --
      Today's lucky number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    17. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by arivanov · · Score: 1

      yes, but bending, twisting and pulling to a programmed pattern is actually what requires expensive equipment. Ripping bolt heads of is quite easy by comparison.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    18. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by gboss · · Score: 1

      The fact that he was killed has nothing to do with the failed bolt. If he was at a height where he was able to fall to his death (above 6ft, I believe is the OSHA standard), he should have been wearing fall protection. He was performing his job unsafely and it cost him his life. It had nothing to do with the (possibly counterfeit) bolt.

    19. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by dbcad7 · · Score: 1
      Although I agree with you that bolts which are improperly graded is a serious problem, I have to wonder about the cause of this fall.. Lets say he was torquing the bolt as you say, he would have still fallen if the socket slipped off the bolt.. so obviously he was not being safe... What's a greater concern, is that if all of these cheap bolts had survived torquing, it would not be known that there were weak bolts holding the building together.

      I would also point out, that when buying materials for construction, you get what you pay for.. This is probably more of a problem of the person buying the materials (the bolts) finding the cheapest bolts at that grade they could find... The sad thing is that Saturn, a spin-off of GM, probably has very good buying power with Fastener companies, and they could have gotten really good quality bolts from them at the cheap price they probably paid.. But the construction company probably never even considered that when buying materials.

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
    20. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by Azh+Nazg · · Score: 1

      You're in luck. "Link in all the dependencies" is pretty much the right phrase for that. ;)

      --
      Azh nazg durbataluk, azh nazg gimbatul, Azh nazg thrakataluk agh burzum ishi krimpatul! This sig blocked by Slashdot.
    21. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by bendodge · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That is too extreme. We can't even execute people who cut up 6-year-olds and put them in freezers.

      However, if executives were required to spend time IN JAIL, that might be pretty effective. Charging Mr. $$$$$$$$$ a few $$ isn't going to hurt him much. He needs to actually sit in a cell and have his photo taken for the newspaper.

      --
      The government can't save you.
    22. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by ediron2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      seriously, since this sounds wrong (several ways), where do you say you read this and when?

      I've spent ten minutes googling combinations of bolt, shear, torque, substandard, high-strength, fell, factory, saturn, construction, osha, death, died, fall-hazard, snopes, urban-legend and a dozen other word combinations... no sign of this in or out of snopes.

      Testing precisely is expensive. Testing within an order of magnitude isn't: twist until the bolt-head shears. As for low-grade metal being substituted in, I know a few pipefitters that can do a so-so job identifying metal composition by looking at how the metal grinds and the color of the sparks coming off the grinder.

    23. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by whitehatlurker · · Score: 2, Informative

      This seems to corroborate the original story. I am sceptical as well, and would like to see more independent confirmation. Search

      --
      .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
    24. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      Someone must have amortized this.

      They do, all the time. Remember the Pinto.

      --
      What?
    25. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by conlaw · · Score: 1

      Have you noticed the alarming "suicide" rate among the managers of Chinese factories which have been found to engage in practices like using lead paint on children's toys.

    26. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by earborne · · Score: 1

      Why does it not surprise me that this happened in Tennessee? Because I've worked in Tennessee. Occupational safety doesn't really figure in down here. There is law, but there is common practice. If the circumstance is anything like what I've experienced in industrial positions in Tennessee, the man was pulled in from another department to complete a task he wasn't trained for, and given 15 minutes to complete a task which requires 30 minutes to complete safely. It's like the first time I operated a forklift, when no-one showed me how: in the minutes it took to get used to the reversed steering I could have accidentally brained someone. The psychology that allows this is a result of the prevalent health-and-wealth religious beliefs of the area. That is, that disease and want affect only those who are spiritually lacking. It is not often expressed in those words, but the assumptions that support beliefs are not often expressed in words. What does this personal, anecdotal post have to do with counterfeit chips? Very little. But having worked in the area, I can't sit quietly while people state that the accident was the fault of the poor sap who got killed.

    27. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by earborne · · Score: 1

      p.s. Pardon me, whitehatlurker. You didn't say it was the fault of the man who was killed, others did. It is easier to reply to a bunch of separare posts at once. I replied to your post because you discovered that the accident happened in Tennessee.

    28. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by Deadstick · · Score: 1
      Google "grade 8 bolts" counterfeit.

      rj

    29. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      the trouble is middlemen going cheap... the guy that goes thru the hardware store not the actual supplier. That's because the real supplier is charging extra to hand sort and count them, and do pounds of paperwork for a "bolt" to get the contract. That's why "cheating" or "counterfeiting" is so profitable, even for the people that know they shouldn't buy the stuff.

    30. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by xbytor · · Score: 1

      I remember using some of those ultra-high-strength bolts when I was in the USAF. They look like normal bolts but cost 100x to 1000x as much.We had to treat them like gold because they were typically low in stock.

    31. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by sincewhen · · Score: 2, Insightful
      There is a Chinese saying "The fish rots from the head."

      When corruption benefits those in power, why would they make any effort to stop it?

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    32. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by io-waiter · · Score: 1

      I worked as an intern at a steelmill once and they had people who did nothing but quality check steel by the colour of the sparks.
      This was for the purpose of verifying that all rods/bars in each shipment was of the same steel.

    33. Re:The Counterfeit Bolt Problem by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      I can do a so-so job of telling you the carbon percentage of a sample by putting it on a grinder. I can not, however, tell you anything about the heat treatment the steel has received, or any cold forging or shot peening, and that has a *tremendous* effect on the steel's ultimate tensile strength. Grinder tests identify, they don't really characterize well. For characterization you need mechanical testing.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  3. So maybe there is a market... by The+Ancients · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...for this, after all.

    The focus of comments through the article was that very few people had actually come across counterfeit chips, and the financial repercussions were limited. This shifts the focus to security, which does raise different questions

    1. Re:So maybe there is a market... by Otter+Popinski · · Score: 1

      ...very few people had actually come across counterfeit chips, and the financial repercussions were limited. This shifts the focus to security, which does raise different questions....

      Shifting the focus to a hot-button issue is probably meant to create a market where none previously existed.

    2. Re:So maybe there is a market... by SlashWombat · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only counterfeit chips I have seen came from the "grey" market. The original manufacturer had obsoleted the device (an operational amplifier) but the project had been so long in development it was impractical to re-engineer a fully qualified design to use more modern parts. (Medical equipment takes a long time to get through all the relevant testing to ensure compliance!)

      So, the use of one of the many obsolete parts vendors (companies that specialise in the supply of older parts, often bought as excess stock from other companies clearing their warehouses).

      It goes without saying that many of these companies are based in Asia/China/Taiwan/Hong Kong. Anyway, many of these companies will attempt to source particular chips on request. Some requests are farmed out to a multitude of different third parties. ... In this case, a vedor replied to the request, saying they could supply x thousand of the devices in question.

      When the devices arrived, they were inserted into the required location on the pcb ... but boards would not pass final test. Chips had correct looking branding, but further checking showed that the faults were all due to these amps. Original manufacturer was supplied with samples and the result was it was a rebranded "generic" OpAmp.

      This is really only made possible because many opamps have the same pin outs. However, specifications vary between different types (IE: offset voltage, noise, gain, CMRR, bandwidth, etc)

    3. Re:So maybe there is a market... by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      To sumerise your post, due to regulatory (must use this exact part or go through recertification) and supply (manufacturer discontinuation) your company was pushed into taking the desperate measure of buying ICs from dubious suppliers without knowing thier original source.

      I wonder how often counterfiet chips end up in things like medical gear without being noticed, it is a rather scary thought and potentially far more dangerous than a carefully chosen substitution by engineers who know the product.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  4. chips challenge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, that's globalization for ya!

  5. Not Wise... by imstanny · · Score: 1

    That's not Wise... they're Lays!

  6. Digital Picture frames. by Lemental · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This was only the beginning. Cant wait until next holiday season.

    1. Re:Digital Picture frames. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a great tool for spear fishing. Buy a crate of 'em and ship them off to the various executive officers of (Fortune 50 for example) companies. All you need is someone to whip you up a custom trojan that'll slip by most virus scanners.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Digital Picture frames. by glitch23 · · Score: 1

      This was only the beginning. Cant wait until next holiday season.

      You won't have to wait long. Easter is only a couple weeks away but then again the Easter season would start sometime before that. Although I have never figured out when any given holiday season actually starts. Is it 2 weeks prior to the day of the holiday? 1 week?

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
  7. TFA by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 3, Informative

    I didn't read TFA but is it suggesting that a highly advanced technology could be 'easily' counterfeited and delievered to US facilities? Assuming it would take another highly advanced country to do this... Doesn't this really mean war, not terror? If we find out a sovereign nation is attacking us through this channel I would call it war -- even if that means they are knowningly supplying terrorists with the chips instead of directly doing it themselves.

    The US DoD depending on the global hardware business is the scariest implication to me.

    And one more thing.. this almost sounds like it could be a back door for even stronger DRM technology, embedded in hardware, in our personal computers in the future. SO, how far off base am I this time?

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    1. Re:TFA by zappepcs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you are pretty much right on target. An errant USB stick with malicious firmware could easily wait until it is plugged into a machine on a network with the desired domain name before releasing a small virus. It is not implausible, nor hard to understand this attack vector. That USB stick might be in the form of a cheap MP3 player.

      Without spraying details all over, there are many more ways to get a small piece of code inside a very secure facility, after which it's game on for the IDS system.

      Even if nothing is found in the wild like this, fear of it might indeed push DRM et al into all manner of devices.

      On the short list: Secure facilities should not be allowing electronic devices into their facilities. period. if they want to stay secure. No DRM should be trusted to fully do this job in such instances of security like are required for the Pentagon, military bases etc.

      Adding DRM to commercial and personal use devices will NOT... repeat NOT increase security.

    2. Re:TFA by blhack · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Terrorism is the new communism. Don't let the actual definition get in the way of people using this to incite fear.

      What we're talking about there is Cold war V2.0 with China.
      There is no shortage of people who theorize that Russia at one point might have been able to pull of some crazy hack that disabled all of our electronics using Tesla tech; what we're talking about here is an ACTUAL ability for China to do it.
      The real solution to this problem is to bring manufacturing back to the United States.

      Unfortunately this requires more regulation on American Companies.

      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    3. Re:TFA by Broken+scope · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The government could also only buy components made in the untied states. Or at least the critical ones.

      --
      You mad
    4. Re:TFA by Arioch5 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Being that I work for an engineering company which almost exclusively works on DoD contracts (or sub contracts). I can tell you first hand that DoD material does depend on global hardware companies. Almost any type of chip out there has a military rated version available. Heck there's even a term Military COTS (Military Commercial Off The Shelf), for items that are specifically designed for military use using readily available off the shelf parts. What I would ask you is how could you possibly expect the US DOD to actually design and manufacture the vast array of chips that are currently available on the commercial market? Could you imagine the cost involved in re-designing every commercial chip and supplying it locally here in the US? In the end the only way anyone could afford to produce military grade products is to design with commercial and Industrial parts as much as possible supplementing with Military grade where necessary. In the end, everything has to be certified to meet very strict military standards. Of course, I'm speaking in generalizations here. There are I'm sure some products that are very custom to the level of having almost no commercial/industrial parts. But I dobut you could find anything that didn't at least contain commercial/industrial passive parts (ie. resistors).

    5. Re:TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US DoD depending on the global hardware business is the scariest implication to me.

      <sarcasm>

      Just keep repeating to yourself.

      Free trade is wonderful. Free trade solves all our problems. Free trade is a panacea. Free trade can do no wrong.

      There, that was easy.

      </sarcasm>

    6. Re:TFA by VValdo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Doesn't this really mean war, not terror?

      I think it would depend on the context. From TFA:

      However, not all experts agree that the risk is severe. After all, there's never been a report of a foreign country or criminal outfit using such technology to steal information or commit sabotage. (The United States did successfully conduct such a mission against the Soviet Union during the Cold War.)

      If I'm not mistaken, the mission they are referring to was in 1982, when the US let the Soviet Union "steal" software that helped run a natural gas pipeline. The Russians were in the habit of stealing US technology, so the US secretly embedded the software with code that would- when run- cause the pressure in the pipes and pumps to go sky-high.

      The result:

      "The result was the most monumental non-nuclear explosion and fire ever seen from space."

      Was this an act of war? Not really, since the code was stolen. Maybe sabotage. Terrorism? No, but it probably sent a message to the Kremlin that stealing foreign technology may not be a good idea...

      W

      --
      -------------------
      This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    7. Re:TFA by robertjw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thing I don't get about this is the standards. Maybe general government use isn't the same, but back when I used to work for a company that made military equipment everything had to be to military specifications. Any changes had to be reviewed and approved by the DOD. I don't know if things have changed over the last 15 years, but this was a BIG deal then.

    8. Re:TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jerry Pournelle has often suggested a 10 to 20 percent across the board tariff on all manufactured goods entering the county. Not enough to encourage inefficiency, but enough to, at least partly, offset the regulatory burden on American manufacturers.

    9. Re:TFA by omegashenron · · Score: 2, Informative

      The NSA fabs its own processors at Fort Meade.

      Most of these other chips are general purpose and used in a wide range of commercial applications. The idea in investing in the additional infrastructure to produce components locally will mean more foreign debt for US, increased taxes and would probably fail in the long run since licensing costs of all the various chips out there used in defence/aerospace would kill you if your only serving the military (commercial organisations wont buy if they can source it cheaper elsewhere).

      Anyway, look at it this way, if there are security implications, the Government will dedicate resources to improving security and privacy which in turn may inhibit their ability to spy on citizens.

      --
      Excuses Are Like Assholes - Everybody's Got One
    10. Re:TFA by mlts · · Score: 1

      With my limited knowledge of American history, before the income tax was enacted, the US made their main income from a revenue (as opposed to a protective) tariff.

      Maybe we need to re-examine that as a possible income source.

    11. Re:TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...a sovereign nation is attacking us through this channel I would call it war..."

      Oh stop your patriotic posturing, the good 'ol USA has been doing this to other countries for years.

      It's a part of life, like industrial espionage, which has been going on for decades.

      I don't see anyone calling that "war".

    12. Re:TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know who Smoot or Hawley are, but I don't hear you offering any suggestions.

    13. Re:TFA by xbytor · · Score: 1

      There are also stories I heard from back in my telephony days that some of the switches that AT&T was selling to the various Eastern-bloc countries had back-doors built into them. Not quite as spectacular as a fireball, but potentially more damaging .

    14. Re:TFA by Mattsson · · Score: 1

      I would call it war But the US government wouldn't.
      There are international treaties that regulate how you can or can't treat prisoners of war that the US government would rather not adhere to.
      If there isn't a war, just a bunch of "terrorist", you can simply ignore those treaties.

      --
      /.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
    15. Re:TFA by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      And that's why secure facilities routinely ban all USB devices and disable the ports unless there is a clear business case for needing USB on a particular machine, which will usually be behind an extra security door, perhaps in a print or store room.

  8. ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time I see an article talking about the impending terrorist plots to use high-tech means of warfare, I just say to myself, "box cutters".

  9. Awesome! by choseph · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Does waterboarding these 'terror chips' work as well as water cooling?

  10. New terror is hacking fears by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Counterfeit Chips Raise New Terror, Hacking Fears


    Indeed... the "War on Terror" is nothing more than various groups of people trying use terror to "hack our fears". The terrorists try to hack our fears to gain power over us, and the governments fighting them do the same.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  11. Terror Fears? by dmahurin · · Score: 1

    What exactly is "Terror Fear"?

    Fear of extreme fear?

    1. Re:Terror Fears? by bhima · · Score: 1

      No. It's being suckered by Assholerly and Cynicism

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:Terror Fears? by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      recursive fear?

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    3. Re:Terror Fears? by sxeraverx · · Score: 1

      The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Politicians understand that concept extremely well, just not the people, which makes them so easy to manipulate.

    4. Re:Terror Fears? by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

      Don't fear fear, use fear....whether yours or others...

      Strangely enough, using it is the only way to avoid it...

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
  12. Five Words by sharp-bang · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You get what you pay for.

    If you don't want counterfeit parts, pay for the appropriate controls and enforce them. The government has been trying to build government-class security and reliability on COTS technology for far too long.

    If that means domestic production, so be it.

    --
    #!
    1. Re:Five Words by southpolesammy · · Score: 1
      Use of COTS parts is fine as long as:
      1. Reliability concerns are either accepted as non-critical, or mitigated through the use of controls such as parts caches
      2. TCO of product is cheaper
      3. Trust in the manufacturer/integrator is established

      If any of these items can not be successfully accommodated, then you shouldn't use COTS parts in your product. With respect to this discussion, #1 and #3 are in question, and debatably #2.
      --
      Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
    2. Re:Five Words by junner518 · · Score: 0

      You get what you pay for.
      If I'm not mistaken that is six words :p
    3. Re:Five Words by robably · · Score: 1

      Five Words: You get what you pay for.
      Sometimes you get one free, it seems.
    4. Re:Five Words by sharp-bang · · Score: 1

      Technically the word "you" occurs twice. ;-)

      --
      #!
    5. Re:Five Words by junner518 · · Score: 0

      Okay we'll go with that

    6. Re:Five Words by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      It's five different words. 'you' is a duplicate.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    7. Re:Five Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These 6-for-the-price-of-5 words should be thoroughly inspected. One of them is likely counterfeit.

  13. Turnabout by Reader+X · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While there's still never been a fake-chip sabotage or info hack on America by foreign countries or rogue groups

    One wonders whether the reverse is true, and if so, why other countries are not freaking out about it...

  14. Keep manufacturing in the US by alextheseal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe if these parts are so critical we should keep the manufacturing in the US?

    1. Re:Keep manufacturing in the US by x1n933k · · Score: 1

      Good point, but you're not willing to pay to have it manufactured here as it would cost more. People would feel cheated, etc etc



      [J]

  15. "All your chip are belong to us!" by StefanJ · · Score: 1

    "Hah hah!"

    "Someone set us up the server!"

  16. That explains it! by boristdog · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was wondering why my new "Gatemay" computer had an "Inpel Inside!" sticker on it.

  17. Never been a fake-chip sabotage by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    That we know of. There could be millions of rogue processors out there just waiting for a command to "turn on", or self-destruct. How would we ever know from the outside?

    Wasn't there some question about Levono's laptops recently and their potential to secretly spy on its users at a hardware level? While not exactly the same, it is similar.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  18. More Word Games by joebob2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Define Counterfeit

    Isn't this hashing over the same deal where the "counterfeit" parts were really just unauthorized copies of a good board? How is it "Anti-Terrorism" to terrify the crap out of unsuspecting people with far-fetched hypotheticals?

    Articles like: "The danger of installing foreign designed, foreign made black boxes in our infrastructure" just sounds obvious, and the answer is obvious too: make your own boxes.

    These so-called but not-exactly-counterfeits are a problem caused by a lot of short-sighted business fads. Aggressive offshoring of design and manufacturing means that you are not in control of the product anymore. It also means that you killed off your local design and manufacturing, making it that much harder to solve the problem. If the "Counterfeit" uses full-spec parts, then are they really counterfeit? If they use crap parts, they will just break early, costing someone money. As far as a cyber-bot-net conspiracy, there are more realistic problems to worry about.

  19. NSA by guy5000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Doesn't the NSA make their chips domestically?

  20. Consensus of different implentations by scorp1us · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hardware is cheap, and there are always more than one way to skin a cat.

    Just do the same algorithm on different hardware architenctures and at least one different virtual machine implementations. (Use a minimum of three implementations!) Take the answer that two agree on and forward that on to the next step in the pipeline. It would be difficult if not impossible to produce a counterfeit chip that could produce undetectable deviations in both software and hardware machines.

    "Never set sail with only two compasses - use one or three."

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
  21. Lou Dobbs? Is that You! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Clearly, this is the agenda of the piece. PopMech has been a fan press for the US arm industry since its inception "Look! A dive-bomber that will send Tojo to his divine reward!".

    They have seeded stories from Military and "Intelligence" sources for years.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  22. the ongoing effort to make DRM mean security by fpgaprogrammer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the impetus for adding restrictions and obfuscations is most certainly NOT security in the DoD sense. methinks interested parties are trying to juxtapose priacy/DRM interests with security/terrorism concerns. there is no really good argument for increased in-silicon DRM as a means to end-to-end security except for the economic security of intellectuals and their property. the troubling aspect to any attempt at subverting counterfeit designs is that it encourages mechanism to obfuscate a digital design and decreases your freedom to know exactly what is happening to those electrons. such measures invariably decrease the overall security and reliability of the system by adding more complexity. an easily counterfeit-able design is also easy to verify. the converse is also true. truly safe systems must incorporate redundant standardized parts from multiple vendors to eliminate the effectiveness of malevolently embedded flaws.

  23. end of cheap gadget manufacturing in China by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Well, wont that just suck.

    Cheaper chinese goods that are flooding in help keep prices down overall.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  24. Ruffles by c0d3r · · Score: 1

    I think it's healty for other manufactures to make rippled potato chips other than ruffles.

  25. The CIA did this... by bockelboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Isn't this what the CIA did to the USSR? They purposely sold the Soviets Counterfeit CPUs and other technology so their economy would be based on faulty technology.

    In fact, it culminated in the mid 80's when a brand new pipeline was turned on with turbines taken from America via a Canadian intermediary. The turbines purposely malfunctioned and the resulting blast was about 1/4 the size of Hiroshima. Taking out such an important oil pipeline made a non-trivial dent in the Soviet economy.

    Look up the "Farewell Dossier".

    What is old is new again.

  26. They would know by Rorschach1 · · Score: 1

    Didn't the US government do exactly this sort of thing to someone else? I think it was a country in the Middle East, and it involved HP printers, IIRC.

  27. Re:TFA... HOW can you call it war? by davidsyes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the traditional sense?

    If the US government (by extension, the wealthy, the connected, the power brokers, then the consumers/prosumers) want cheap goods, then they will be made in China or elsewhere. If the US wants security to not be threatened by counterfeit goods (bads) then it OUGHT to SHUT UP and bite the bullet and manufacture ALL infrastructure-threat-capable electronics domestically.

    But, it can't. It can't because to do so would buck or contravene many conventions, trade acts, and agreements. If the US can't trust Asian producers, what makes it think it's safe trusting European producers? Only irrational comfort in color-based similarity and common heritage is probably all there is.

    So, the next best thing is for governments to stop dicking around and posturing as soft-enemies. If China never has to fear the US, then national or entrepreneurial counterfeits orders might not be a real problem. If the US stops trying to f*sking trying to be NUMERO UNO/Master-of-the-Universe, other nations might feel less threatened. If the US is less feared, sure, some will still try to exploit it, but that is best done economically, which is already the case: multiple hands from multiple nations and places from Dubai to Israel, to UK to Tokyo to Beijing, to Venezuela (oil, cheap oil) will have some tug and push on the US. Small, but definitely felt.

    All this just reminds me of the post by a sysadmin about 2 weeks ago who said as long as the counterfeits work until he's got his ROI, or as long as they don't crash or trash his network and as long as the only difference is in the serial numbers, then he doesn't care, because he saved money. Well, how can HE ever know his company's chips are not trojan chips? He's not likely to have Cisco come do an audit on the chip code or substrates or pins. He'd get fire if it's shown he knew and did nothing. Well, MAYBE he'd be fired.

    i wouldn't be surprised if 45% of US infrastructure and maybe the same of the EU and even Japan has been "infiltrated" (used not in the "evil" sense, but in the penetration sense) by counterfeit chips. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that prior to off-shoring chip plants to China that the US was sending "counterfeit" or infiltration chips to other nations. These companies probably did it at the bidding of the US government, under black ops national security project, which we'll never be able to prove nor disprove, given the secret accounting and multitudes of project names and cover names.

    So, in all, this is "touche", or Karma (good or bad) at work or in play.

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  28. It would be so easy to put a back door into AMT by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    The easy way to attack remote systems at the hardware level would be to preload a back-door key into Active Management Technology. All the hardware is already there to remote control the computer, without any help from the operating system. By default, this feature is supposed to be disabled. But a minor firmware change, initializing the AMT unit with a second hidden key instead of leaving it disabled, would make it possible to take over any corrupted machine from a level below the OS.

    AMT is the latest form of this, but there's also ASF (AMD's version), and RCMP (works over UDP, while AMT is a web service).

    This is tough to detect, short of cutting open the network controller chip and tracing the wiring with a scanning electron microscope. That's quite possible and tools for it exist, but it's not cheap.

    1. Re:It would be so easy to put a back door into AMT by Ernesto+Alvarez · · Score: 1

      If AMT is active, it should show up on a port scan. No need to trace circuitry or anything fancy. The ports are well known, too.

      A UDP service would be a little harder to detect, but UDP ports can be scanned too.

  29. Re:Awesome! Waterboarding??? by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    How about "Back-dooring"... Introducing Her Hingelader... The hind-loading info-sucking chip...

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  30. Another one for you by querist · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wanted to mod this up (funny), but I decided to comment instead...

    My brother has a Shrap calculator. (Yes, S-H-R-A-P, not Sharp). The lettering looks exactly like the lettering used by Sharp during that time period (1980s). He keeps it for the humor value.

    "From Shrap minds come shrap products..." :-)

    This kind of thing really does happen.

    1. Re:Another one for you by boristdog · · Score: 1

      Heh. A friend who went to Hong Kong brought home some "SOMY" AA batteries.

    2. Re:Another one for you by GiMP · · Score: 1

      It isn't a question if this "kind of thing really does happen", there are millions of counterfeit products out there. The question is where you're looking. You don't get a lot of counterfeits in the USA, though there are some imported. A lot of economy building/rebuilding countries are a haven for counterfeit goods.

      In Poland, I've read that according to polls, 50% of people admited to (still) buying counterfeit goods. I think this has a lot to do with the post-communist situation, where upon the lifting of the iron curtain, the counterfeit products arrived more quickly and at affordable prices. By the time the legitimate products were available, they were too expensive, and their brand names were already affected by the surge of counterfeit products. For instance, if you and your friends all had shirts that said "Nikee", would you buy a more expensive shirt that said "Nike"? Who the hell is "Nike", anyway?

      Needless to say, they have a thriving black market.

    3. Re:Another one for you by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Funny

      And thanks to all the explosive batteries in the cheap knockoffs, from shrap products comes shrap nel....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:Another one for you by hurfy · · Score: 1

      hehe, i have blackmarket Compaq computer. The old Original one kinda sorta. Actually it is made to look like the second model but only has the power of the original. The keyboard design is copied (surely the attached keyboard was patented). The bios is probably stolen. Several other components are copies. NOTHING above the chip level is marked with anything whatsoever. No brand names, not even a part number on anything inside or outside. Wish i would have left it alone but i swapped out parts to make a more workable unit (and to ebay the semi-rare XT chip it used someday) Kinda tough to find jumper settings for a board that doesn't exist too. But a interesting little piece of computer history.

      Wish i knew how these were sold and if they were passed off as compaq or a generic. Passed off as a real Compaq they would have bit it as they were underpowered compared to the Compaq AT they resemble.

  31. Re:Turnabout ... Intruder... Fair Play? by davidsyes · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88031211&ft=1&f=1001

    There is a "Listen Now" link, too.

    But, here's a chunk:

    "Army Maj. Reid Sawyer, of West Point's Combating Terrorism Center, says that is now changing -- and that al-Qaida's central leadership, securely based in Pakistan, is once again taking charge.

    "What we have been observing is al-Qaida's attempt to re-assert control throughout their disparate networks, with al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, in the Horn of Africa, to provide guidance and mentoring, if you will, as well as some funding to these organizations," Sawyer said.

    "And so the organization has coalesced again, because of its ability to have sanctuary. And that's really given it such a benefit that can't be overstated."

    Michael Scheuer, a top al-Qaida specialist at the CIA until 2004, goes even further in his assessment.

    "I think al-Qaida as an organization was never seriously damaged," Scheuer said. "What we're seeing is, it has a new base. It is fairly comfortable where it sits at the moment. And it is able to go back to doing the things it did since 1988."

    But the world has changed since 1988 -- and so has al-Qaida.

    The group is now on the Internet, and it even has its own media company, producing videos for radical Islamist Web sites.

    With these new tools, the Internet makes it possible for al-Qaida to promote its vision of jihad or holy war and solicit recruits throughout the Muslim world.

    Sawyer says the Internet even provides a training mechanism, taking the burden off al-Qaida bases in Pakistan.

    "What the Internet has really created for al-Qaida and its affiliated groups is a virtual sanctuary,... "

    Like Adama told Tyrol about Galactica Valerii: "You'll see her again, Chief.... There are many copies."

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  32. Smoke and Mirrors by frovingslosh · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Absolutely. If there were any real threat of a problem here, it could easily be dealt with by very simple technology, but the major manufacturers seems to not want to do that and rather go off on a smoke and mirrors terror binge. Many CPUs have long had a unique serial number built into them. Intel even gained a lot of consumer wrath when they wanted to use this ID to make it easier for every Internet advertiser to track you and amass more personal data about you. But they never made it easy for the user to benefit from this serial number.

    Rather than wail and moan about supposedly fake chips, what the manufacturers should do is put on-line the database of valid serial numbers and their specs and history and let end users have access to this information and even add to the database (if they so choose) their ownership of a serial number. This would have several benefits: Fake chips would have a problem of not having a large pool of valid serial numbers (it would be easy enough to not have the database expose the entire list, and limit the number of chips that could be looked up by any IP in a short time) and if fake chips all used the same ID this could be quickly detected. Users could also confirm that the specs for the chip they bought were the specs the manufacturer intended, preventing the practice or remarking chips for higher clock frequencies. A user who desired it could have a lot of confidence that is chip was not counterfeit just by checking into the database and learning what the manufacturer knew about his chip. Chips with serious bugs that were recalled would be detected easily without alarming users of unaffected chips. And this could even provide a service of letting one register their CPU serial number, if they wanted the computer to be able to be look up by law enforcement or others later in the case of theft. That this isn't already being done, yet the industry is acting like counterfeit chips are a big problem, seems to be telling me something is bogus about their claims of doom.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:Smoke and Mirrors by mlts · · Score: 1

      Another idea is to have a random value on the chip, and have a function that takes some input "X", concats it with the random value, then outputs a SHA-512 hash. The random value which is the seed of the hash would also be stored in a highly secure database at the chip maker's place.

      Then, the chip maker can tell someone that genuine chips, if given the value of "foo" with the function, will output a hash "bar", and then give a list of "bar" outputs. Then, periodically change the "foo" value so if someone make a counterfeit chip, the output "bar" won't change like true chips would. This is more secure than just a serial number because fakes can find a single genuine chip serial, and make tons of copies with that ID.

      Another idea, although it would take a lot of die room would be a cryptographic coprocesser, and have each chip have its own RSA or ECC private key stored in a secure location. Then, each chip's key is certified at the factory. Then, its fairly trivial to validate chips, and if a multiple chips have the same public key, the fab can issue a revocation certificate.

    2. Re:Smoke and Mirrors by frovingslosh · · Score: 1
      Oh, there are plenty of other things that can be done if you want to add stuff to the chip. My point was that more can be done with what is already on the chip, but the chip makers just are not doing it. As to the fake chip makers finding one good serial number, sure, they could find out a chips serial number if I can check my own, but having hundreds or thousands of new Dell or Lenovo notebooks all showing up on the database with the same serial number and a comment in the database "an end-user has already registered this CPU, contact us if you have it also" would quickly spot counterfeits, and give the manufacturers a way to start to trace the bad chips back. If a shipment of CPU chips is stolen they could be flagged in the on-line database, making them much harder to fence (and thus reducing the incentive for further such thefts). And I even expect that the manufacturers (and end purchasers) would like to know if CPUs starting showing up in computers that were supposedly destroyed because they failed in the testing phase of manufacturing.

      There are a lot of benefits that would come from a simple on-line database of serial numbers that would not come from some more complex on-chip "solutions".

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    3. Re:Smoke and Mirrors by thanatos_x · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing this can apply to more than just CPUs, however current CPUs would be tremendously hard to counterfeit. How many people have significant resources invested in the chip industry? I think intel is the only one that's on to 45nm and moving on. Would counterfeit chips be able to come close performance wise? (Assuming the user won't notice anything under a 20% drop in speed)

      In other devices, the chips can probably be copied more easily, but replacing the chips would be quite difficult, like in say a PDA, and at that point it'd be easier to swap the PDA with an identical bugged copy.

      As for the serial number database, it's not a bad idea for security, but if they were serious about it i'd go with some of the other poster's suggestions - online databases can be hacked. The companies producing the chips would have to have the backing of the government, and it's already been shown that with enough resources, hackers can hack the pentagon and los alamos. Given the amount of effort required to produce the chips in the first place, it's not hard to imagine that they could hack the secure registry and update a few values.

      --
      I am not an expert. If I am misled in something, please correct me.
    4. Re:Smoke and Mirrors by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      you still miss the fundamental fact that many chips like iPods are made IN CHINA, and assembled IN CHINA.... who's to say they don't simply hijack an iPod firmware to phone home? With so much made over their legally, watching for "illegal" hacks applied to the legal exports would be impossible if the Chinese really wanted to cause trouble.

  33. America should say NO to china built chips by WindBourne · · Score: 0

    All in all, at the very least, the US gov. should say no to companies that are moving their production to china. In fact, I think that if the production does not come from certain countries, then it should not be bought. Basically, we are allowing our far too many of our items to go to countries who WILL be after the west. The feds could just buy from Places like EU, Japan, Canada, Israel, and even Mexico and not worry too much.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:America should say NO to china built chips by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Can you say WTO?

      If the US were to institute a policy like this, they would be slapped with fines and tariffs until they stopped. Larger companies would sue and win because such trade rules would be judged to be discriminatory. You could probably drag race and ethnicty into it as well so there would be double or triple damages.

      We dug this hole and it is pretty deep. No really good ways out now. I suspect the best way would be a cold war with China and a naval blockade. Sure, the rest of the world would hate the US because of universally higher prices, but at least we'd have a few jobs back.

    2. Re:America should say NO to china built chips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, WTO is an issue. But we have real problems. There is no doubt that China is actively using their produce goods to spy against America and most likely the world. The real problem is that they have their yuan tied to the dollar. If they continue that, we should do the same. Simply tie our dollar to their yuan. Yes, it will cause issues. But, it would get us past WTO.

      In addition, I have been thinking that we need to really consider implementing a carbon tax. Basically, the west and even a number of the 3rd world countries have pushed for this. I am thinking that if we do it, AND will push to get off coal and oil, then it would work to solve this issue as well. THe reason is that China will not be able to make fast changes on their energy matrix, whereas America can.

  34. Hackers are cheapskates too... by Stochastism · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This kind of illicit technology is usually (not always) about making a buck. It's cheaper to exploit software than physical chips.

    Fix the world's software and then those industrious rogues might decide the expense and lengthy process of counterfitting physical chips is worthwhile compared to a quick piece of spyware.

  35. Never been a fake-chip sabotage or info hack by noidentity · · Score: 1

    While there's still never been a known and admitted fake-chip sabotage or info hack on America by foreign countries or rogue groups

    There, fixed that for you.

  36. Already been done, but it's difficult by smellsofbikes · · Score: 5, Informative

    In the early 1980's, the US produced intermittently buggy chips which we sold to the USSR in full knowledge that they'd disrupt production facilities. It worked very well. Why, then, wouldn't China do the same thing?

    As someone who works in chip verification, I can tell you it's very difficult with most chips to do this, as long as the chips are designed in the US -- which is still largely the case, that they're designed here and produced in fabs in China (because labor's cheap and they don't care if their workers are exposed to HF and silane as long as money's coming in.)
    You know *exactly* what size your chip die is. If the silicon comes back from the fab with a different-sized die, it will be very obvious. So nobody can put extra stuff onto an existing die. Die size is the single most critical aspect of most designs, because of the cost, so existing designs are jammed just as tightly as they can possibly be. You can't put more functionality into an existing die size. The problem, then, is letting your design out. (And even then, a competent chip designer could probably spot strange material on a smaller die because they're familiar with how the layout is supposed to look.)
    There are some amazing military-grade chips out there. I was reading about the Maxim DS3600 the other day -- on-chip encryption and tamper-sensing, including detecting temperature changes and reacting by blanking all the on-board memory and stored encryption keys in nanoseconds, far faster than dumping liquid helium onto the chip would be able to freeze the memory for decoding. (They use some whack process for continually load-levelling and rewriting the keys so you can't use stored oxide charge to read what was there before it got blanked, either.) That kind of stuff is on the common market, available for anyone to buy. I assume the military has better stuff yet, and espionage people even better.
    At the end of the day you have to be able to trust someone or you'll just crouch in your basement. But there are ways to verify a chip's functionality and look for clearly bogus interactions. Our chip test systems make it easy to distinguish chips from different silicon lots, much less from different fabs. As always, if you buy the cheap stuff you don't know what you're getting, but if you spend the money to do some research, you'll have a much, much better idea of what you're getting. In this case, money in the millions of dollars, granted, but if you're designing military-grade stuff, well, that's why you buy from companies with a track record of producing trustworthy stuff.

    --
    Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    1. Re:Already been done, but it's difficult by Mike1024 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      existing designs are jammed just as tightly as they can possibly be. You can't put more functionality into an existing die size. [...] I was reading about the Maxim DS3600 the other day -- on-chip encryption and tamper-sensing, including detecting temperature changes and reacting by blanking all the on-board memory and stored encryption keys in nanoseconds, far faster than dumping liquid helium onto the chip would be able to freeze the memory for decoding. It's true that it would require extra space or rearrangement to add, say, a keylogger to a USB keyboard.

      But it would require only a handful of malformed vias among millions to make your 'military grade' memory-wiping electronics get stuck at 'do not wipe' and your built-in test hardware get stuck at 'no problem'.

      Just my $0.02
      --
      "Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
    2. Re:Already been done, but it's difficult by LM741N · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well said. It is also extremely difficult to test microprocessors with millions of transistors. Same with memory. For consumer applications you can only afford small test coverage, otherwise the chip would cost $10,000. But like said above the military spends quite a bit of money for a lot of test coverage, but even they can't test everything.

    3. Re:Already been done, but it's difficult by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      Hmm, this "crouch in your basement" thing sounds intriguing. Is there a newsletter published pertaining to this?

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    4. Re:Already been done, but it's difficult by nephridium · · Score: 1

      Hmm, this "crouch in your basement" thing sounds intriguing. Is there a newsletter published pertaining to this?
      Why, of course! Look no further!

      On a serious note, it's interesting to see, that during the Cold War with a real threat of thermo-nuclear war the government tried to prevent mass-paranoia by spreading untruthful propaganda, while now they are doing exactly the same, but with th goal of causing mass paranoia.
      --


      And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
    5. Re:Already been done, but it's difficult by kg123 · · Score: 1

      you should also consider you're doing test coverage analysis based on finding faults... not a deliberately hidden function.... it would be awfully easy to write a few lines of RTL that are disabled by "test enable" signals to hide themselves from test patterns....

    6. Re:Already been done, but it's difficult by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Our chips do that -- we're designing analog stuff, and they all have undocumented test modes, where you put in wildly non-standard inputs and the chip goes into a test mode where you can turn on/off specific parts. The thing is: wildly non-standard inputs are hard to get to a chip in a standard use design. There is no functional circuit design that could get anything we're building into its test mode. Of course, we're not building for surreptitious access.

      I should break this down a little: we can assume two general ways of providing surreptitious access to a chip.
      1. One or several non-standard inputs. Ruled out as above by adjacent circuit design, which the nogoodnik chip designer has no control over.
      2. Standard inputs that are encoded -- a serial datastream, like portknocking. This is totally doable and probably difficl tto crack because it's basically encapsulating a secure communications channel on the chip, and that's a well-characterized situation. But it requires dedicated silicon. If the chip is anything seriously complex like a microcontroller, it's quite possible a clever designer could hide that silicon in the design. But those are the most crucial chips and will get the most scrutiny. The other chips, the level translators and power management chips and hardware codec chips, are just too small and simple, internally, to hide that kind of hardware.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  37. It could be a joint-effort with 'War on Xmas'! by FatSean · · Score: 1

    Just think, a double whammy of a war.

    --
    Blar.
  38. Just like the movie Runaway by dwarmstr · · Score: 1

    Just like Runaway!

  39. It is more subtle than that by bbasgen · · Score: 1


      Saying "you get what you pay for" is objectively true, but it ignores the point of the article.... ;)

      No matter how much the DoD would like domestic chips, no matter how much they shell out, it just isn't going to happen. This shift in the market has been going on for decades, there is no way in hell you can stop it. More importantly, any efforts against it necessarily require political protectionism, which is as politically dead as buggy whips. Meanwhile, computer crime has skyrocketed in the last 5 years, and it has become extremely big business. Big enough that this kind of thing, embedding chips with spy ware, is starting to actually make sense.

      I think most people recognize that the dependence of the US military on technology is problematic. At some point this will become a major vulnerability point for the US military in war. You don't have to go sci-fi and consider an EMP weapon; look no further than embedded chips, brought to you by the Russian mafia for the low-low price of a few tens of millions.

      The bottom line is that you can't compete via protectionism, and if you can't compete in the market, the conventional wisdom is that you are sure to loose on the battlefield.

    1. Re:It is more subtle than that by kg123 · · Score: 1

      I think its an over-exageration to say that domestic chips are impossible... where were the first 2 production 45 nm fabs built again? its possible to build anything DOD needs domestically.... its just not possible to do that while leveraging the economic benefits of the global electronics industry.

  40. Counterfeit chips not required by OTDR · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One can find genuine reason to be worried with the US military without ever worrying over a problem so clever as counterfeit chips. US DoD has routinely exhibited worrisome practices for years.

    I work in the field of modeling & simulation supporting training and flight testing for the Army. Time and again when I've tried to find an ICD (interface control document) or spec on a low-level protocol for some box on an Apache Longbow in the end it discovered that the Government never bought said document from the manufacturer (McDonnell-Douglas, or now, Boeing). Each thing is simply an LRU (line-replaceable unit) black box whose innards are irrelevant -- the I/O is documented but when they fail the box goes back to the vendor for repair. And if you want the specs, call Boeing and they'll be happy to talk sales. US DoD acts this way in the name of "cutting costs" and the up-front bottom line probably is lower. For US companies, such as Boeing, this is no big deal since we're more or less all on the same team.

    Now, flash forward -- DoD is increasingly awarding aircraft contracts to non-US companies. Take the recent US Army LUH (Light Utility Helicopter) that went to EADS North America (or the Airforce tanker contract that went likewise to EADS). This same cost-cutting "don't need this spec or that spec" mentality is still used. Now you have entire military aircraft being delivered with large-scale black boxes (easier to build than counterfeiting chips) which are potentially just as rogue. Who's to say there's no malicious firmware in there? No one seems to be looking or caring. Can anyone prove that any given system isn't poised to intentionally upon receipt of some pre-planned stimuli?

    There's a lot more to worry about than "terrorists" -- mindless bureaucrats can be just as dangerous. The funny thing here is the opposition I've run into pushing for the adoption of Open Source tools. Despite a few agencies here and there employing Open Source with great success, a few memos of "endorsement," and a few official studies touting value, most DoD bureaucrats can't get past the "source is open to 'hackers' therefore must be a security threat" mentality.

    Department of Dumbasses, your US tax dollars at work.

  41. Re:Turnabout ... Intruder... Fair Play? Only dolts by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    might find this off-topic. With the possibility that "Terrorists" may become relegated to the title of common criminals, there is the possibility they will be "laundered" into common gangs or mafias and gain access to legitimate businesses and therefore into manufacturing processes.

    Criminals always evolve. Well, at least the smarter of them. To ignore this is simply burying ones head in the sand.

    Marking this off-topic is akin to burying head in sand.

    Get it?

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  42. Re:What if the Trusted Platform Module is the fake by zappepcs · · Score: 1

    That is exactly why I'm following the developments of open hardware efforts. I'm hoping they are quite successful. Then we can all know (vicariously maybe) what is in both the chips and the software without relying on MS or Intel to tell us it is all okay. Sure, that doesn't make **everything** safe, but it gets a lot closer.

  43. 24 years on... by lazy_nihilist · · Score: 2, Informative
  44. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  45. Re:Consensus of different implentations / nonsense by LM741N · · Score: 1

    That is nonsense. How do you know ahead of time the algorithm that is going to produce the desired result?

    Chips are so complicated and difficult to test that it might take anywhere from 1 second to a million years or more for the intentional defect to show up even if you guessed the correct algorithm.

  46. Re:Beware: Pop Mechanics speaks for Homeland Secur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In case anyone wonders why this is not modded informative, it is because it is apparently the kind of sensationalist crap that is all to common these days. Chertoff's mother said that possibly they were distant cousins, and there is no evidence that anyone from Benjamin's family has ever met anyone from Michael's family.

    Here is the wikipedia link.

  47. It *was* a long time ago by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 1
    I don't remember clearly when it was, but the magazine article I read (Time I think) said that the Saturn plant was still under construction.

    It was considered a huge and serious problem. Quite possibly something has been done to solve it since then.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  48. traitors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is little to no doubt at all though that he is a dual national with Israel as his first priority. The whole PNAC crew and their hired help are questionable on this matter.

  49. Gene splicing fab is much easier to set up... by Babu+'God'+Hoover · · Score: 1

    We've seen plenty of this already with firmware.
    Setting up a fab, incorporating a trojan into the design, marketing the friggin product, and then seeing that it gets into the devices you want it to is MUCH more difficult than doing a little woojoo tango to help, say avian flu, hanta virus, or maybe dengue feel happy with endemic vectors. Hell, most any university lab has all the gear and no one watches those grad students, not even their advisors :-)

    1. Re:Gene splicing fab is much easier to set up... by Babu+'God'+Hoover · · Score: 1

      No one takes the threat of exploding Nigerian drug mules seriously either.

  50. In communist China... by MacDork · · Score: 1

    That is too extreme. We can't even execute people who cut up 6-year-olds and put them in freezers.

    Perhaps in the US. In China, execution is clearly a viable option for failure to enforce quality control measures.

  51. Identifying counterfeit chips by klic · · Score: 1

    smellsofbikes gave us a good description. End users don't have a whole lot of information to work with, though, and most of our critical systems are not military. So most individuals and companies rely on the reputation of the manufacturing and vendor chain.

    In addition to size, an added chunk of evil circuitry is likely to detectably affect performance. The evil circuit has to connect to the normal circuit somehow, and it will add capacitance to the bus lines it connects to, or gate delays to the path it is inserted into. There is always some white space on a chip, and always some slow wires that can be tapped into, but Murphy's Law (which also applies to the bad guys) says these are not likely to be the exploitable ones.

    Making runs of integrated circuits is expensive (mask sets cost millions of dollars), so counterfeiting chip designs typically only makes sense with run sizes in the millions. Failure analysis by the legitimate manufacturer is likely to detect the fraud, especially if the counterfeits are of lower quality. If you buy from reputable manufacturers and vendors (and you verify those reputations by praying to Saint Google), then you have some assurance that those companies are protecting their reputations (and profits) by looking for problems such as counterfeiting before their critics and competitors see them.

    My SiidTech company ( http://www.siidtech.com/ ) licenses "ICID", a chip individualizing technology, to some semiconductor fabs for tracking their parts through production. For end user privacy protection, we mandate that the ID is inaccessible during normal operation, soldered into a board (enabling the ID with the RESET pin asserted is one way; most chips become nonfunctional during reset). Before final assembly, our manufacturer customers can use that ID to detect counterfeits. If an ID shows up that is not in the database, or appears too many times in the database, then the ICID cell was cloned or it was faked with a ROM. Not perfect detection, but it makes counterfeiting more expensive.

    BTW, the main use of ICID is for quality control and failure analysis, and this involves logging measured characteristics of the individual chip in addition to its ID, so counterfeiting becomes even harder. One form of counterfeiting is to re-mark legitimate but low-grade parts as higher grade parts (like re-marking a 2.4GHz Pentium as a 2.8GHz Pentium - it will work, sorta, for a while). A combination of ID and characteristic logging is a good way to detect this.

    The ICID could be designed to be available during normal operation, and this would enable consumers to query the manufacturer's website to find out whether the component is authentic. However, we can't think of a good way to keep the bad guys from using the ID to track the component (and the consumer) as well. The consumer gets privacy, but can't verify authenticity.

    So consumers must rely on manufacturers for authenticity and quality, both designed in and monitored after the fact. Personally, I am a little more concerned about some unexpected interaction between new processes and the consumer environment. Perhaps we will learn that cigarette smoke dissolves the hafnium gate oxides in the new Penryn CPUs, how would Intel know in advance?

    I am a LOT more concerned about inadequately verified function (some companies are too cheap to hire professionals like smellsofbikes), and the poorly tested software that runs on these systems. The bad guys don't need to inject expensive and potentially detectable vulnerabilities into the hardware when there are a multitude of system vulnerabilities already available.

    --
    Keith Lofstrom server-sky.com
  52. Profit! by layer3switch · · Score: 2, Funny

    1. Terror
    2. Religion
    3. ...
    4. Profit!

    I'm John McCain, and I approve this message.

    --
    "Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
  53. Schneier by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1
    For those interested, here is the relevant part about Schneier's comment :

    "It's certainly possible for the world's major espionage services to secretly plant vulnerabilities in our microprocessors, but the threat is overblown," says Bruce Schneier, chief technology officer of the data security company BT Counterpane. "Why would anyone go through the effort and take the risk, when there are thousands of vulnerabilities in our computers, networks and operating systems waiting to be discovered with only a few hours' work?"
    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  54. War on Death by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

    Have they declared the War on Death yet?

    Seriously, _THAT_ is what they are concerned about -- counterfeit chips. The most expensive, slow and convoluted way of causing security leaks THAT WOULD NOT EVEN WORK IF PEOPLE KEPT SENSITIVE STUFF AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC NETWORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Why don't they worry about easier ways of causing trouble in a creative way such as, say, painting ships with explosive paints when they are serviced? Or causing trouble in very un-creative ways, what seems to work well anyway?

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  55. You mean to tell me... by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Only now do they see (the American government) the folly at sending out everything to be outsourced in china??? Come on guys, you pay yourselves big salaries at our expense then you realize your mistake by sending everything overseas to have the "cheaper price" but don't even realize that now the Chinese can control all pcs with the click of a button....should they so choose to?

    "Sad but true"

  56. Re:You mean my Doritos may not be safe for Democra by GlobalColding · · Score: 1

    They are chips dummy, hows that offtop?!

  57. Re:Consensus of different implentations / nonsense by scorp1us · · Score: 1

    You failed to understand it.

    The presence of a defect would be obvious once one of the implementation's results differed. Given a data set, any stable sorting routine, and comparison of the results from the sort on two independent platforms, you could identify the existence of a defect. Once you have three platforms, you can identify the defective implementation, and you can forward the results of the correct computation (define as winner of best 2 out of 3, aka "consensus") on to the next stage in the processing sequence.

    These chip-based attacks could only look for particular instructions, or sets thereof, in certain combinations. Using two architectures would make implementing identical defects next to impossible because there is only a small overlap of instructions which are functionally identical. Combining it with a software virtual machine (that can be compiled and whose compiler output can digitally signed and verified) would also either break up or obfuscate any instruction sequence to the point of making instruction sequence-based attacks pointless.

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    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.