Slashdot Mirror
What is the First Day in a University Lab Like?
the_kanzure writes "I'm going to start at a university lab a few days after my high school graduation ceremony. The lab is an eclectic blend of computer science, evolutionary engineering and molecular biology, essentially it's research/development and — best of all — the research is worth something to me and my other pet projects. What I do know of science, tech and research has been gleaned from the internet. The open access research repositories (arxiv, PLoS, etc.) have been a life-saver. But showing up to get real, hard experience is not the same as those late hours into the night spent debugging software. In person, you can't just call up a favorite bash script to open up a few hundred tabs to do some quick research on feasability and past research ... how is this supposed to work — does anybody really get stuff done this way? So I've been wondering how Slashdotters have handled transitioning from learning in front of a screen and a good net connection, to actually showing up and getting stuff done. What's a first day like in a lab? Stories? What's the etiquette? Informal? In programing circles, you can always submit a patch and alternatives, but does this hold here? Is the professor still generally considered the PHB and the lowly undergrads are his minions to carry out his bidding?"
Expect non-stop ass paddling and beer bongs. Make sure to bring a swimsuit, as there are frequent wet t-shirt contests as well.
Your mileage may vary, however, as I work at an Ivy League institution.
www.phdcomics.com
With a vocabulary like that you should consider an English major.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Real Genius,
It is on sale this week for like 5 bucks at fry's...
LIVE IT!
Keep an open mind as to how you'll be put to use. Lab work is not always glamorous.
Build cred by being competent and getting stuff done. Try to find someone competent who can get you up to speed and answer your questions. Ask lots of questions.
Once you have some cred, if you have ideas on how to do things better, bring them up in a respectful manner. Professors worth their salt value initiative.
Huge YMMVs. Any idea of what working in a lab will be like will probably last 30 seconds once you get there.
Be excited, smart, and ready to get things done, and good things will happen. If they don't, find another lab. Seriously.
uni labs are great, lots of tea and lots of not doing much. At least in physics labs in england that is.
You're going to die.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
putting your goggles on
I haven't worked in university labs but I have worked in labs affiliated with them. I suspect there's no real difference. You're probably going to have to put up with safety training which usually is a joke that drains a couple hours of your life. Then if you're lucky you'll get a computer which IT might take its sweet time to set up for you. But in the mean time I highly recommend you go around and introduce yourself to the people there. They are the ones that will be teaching you the most and can be very helpful, just try not to be too shy. Get acquainted with the people, equipment and where the best places to eat near there are located.
You're gonna have to come out of the basement for this one, and the surprises will only become ruder and ruder from then on :)
God bless America!
www.phdcomics.com contains all you need to know.
Dont be afraid of being proactive. Academic types will assume you know what you are doing and that you are working when really you could be drowning. Ask them questions.
I also suggest bringing a jacket. Labs can be chilly.
Good luck.
Unless you end up getting involved in some crazy ass frat, university as a rule is easy and a lot more relaxed than highschool. The rule of thumb is that in your classroom you are considered an adult so most profs will treat you like one. There are always the crazy few, but if enough students have a problem you can always complain to the dean, and the university will take your opinion into consideration as a reasonable human being rather than a smelly delinquent teen.
The flipside is you have to work your ass off compared to highschool..Just in a more relaxed, learning before discipline manner.
My first real "day" at a "lab" was a beamtime at a synchrotron. So thats hardly representative.
If you dont know _exactly_ what you want to know (and search for corresponding review papers), arxiv & co are worse than wikipedia for a basic knowledge background. You can very easily run into missconceptions, glorified pet theories, or just get lost in (for the big picture) unimportant details.
About professors: I cannot speak for the US, but over here, the professor has better thinks to do than playing tyrrant in the lab. In fact, many will hardly ever be there. They have to spend their time for teaching, and getting money to finance their (and that also usually means _your_) research.
Etiquette can be drastically different. I am in physics, and in one other chair of the institute i was back then, attentance at 8:00 was required, and people had to do their quarterly reports, ect.
While where i was, you just had to do your stuff (even if that means comming at 1pm and leaving late at the evening, ect). Tone was usually very informal. Just remember: For you its your Great First Day in the Lab. For the others, its just work/doing what is done every day. So you will just experience a normal work enviroment (well, a gernerally more relaxed one than in the industry, but still), with all the variations that this can include.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Stupid question time (I'm not from USA).
How does it work that you go to a lab directly after high school? Are you going to study while you work in the lab? Or is it a permanent type of work?
With shiploads of luck I may be studying postgrad in the USA next year... (It seems that the USA has to most amazing university system in the world).
It is fun to see how ideas can become real. On top of that , my knowledge of computers put me way ahead of everybody else, as a lot of what I did in genetics was computationally intensive. I was in graduate courses, but I have had undergrad biochemistry recently and it is a very laid back and fun if you enjoy learning in the first place. Sounds like you will enjoy it. (keep your lab books clean) The tools that are available now for biochemistry and molecular biology are really interesting.
...learn the difference between 'gleaned' and 'gleamed'.
SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
First of all, realize you're starting out at the bottom of the food chain, which means you're probably going to get all of the grunt work that no one else wants to do.
The agenda of a research lab typically revolves around its director(s). Everyone will be working on their own individual projects (all of which have been detailed in the grant the faculty member was awarded 5 years previously), but you can always approach someone who is working on something similar to you for help, should you require it. Most will probably be glad to help you. The environment is less formal and more close-knit than that in the corporate world.
Most time spent in the lab is rather dull. The exception to this is the month of January, because that's when conference paper deadlines tend to occur. Think of it as a punctuated equilibrium. If you know that the professor wants to submit a paper on one of the projects you're working on, start preparing a paper early, before he even mentions the conference, because if he's anything like mine, he won't mention the conference until two days before the deadline.
Don't expect fair apportion of credit, adherence to some glowing paragon of scientific method, or even basic integrity to abound. Most beliefs that outsiders hold about academia are false. In general, I'd advise going into the process with a healthy dose of cynicism.
Oh, and everything in PhD Comics is true.
Being an undergrad fresh from high school, you won't be doing the professor's bidding. You won't even see your professor at lab. You will have a TA (teaching assistant), a grad student who handles the undergrad labs part time. The lab assignments will give practical experience to the material that will be covered in class. Notice I say "will be covered". That's because there isn't enough time in the semester to wait until you've covered things in class and then start experimenting later on. Often times you will get basic background info and a formula here or there, then you'll get to work. Then at some point, you'll study it in class.
My experiences with undergraduate CS labs weren't anything special. I would show up, get the assignment, listen to any info the TA had, and do a little bit of coding. If I wasn't making much progress, I'd leave and do the assignment at home later by telnetting into the university's servers using PICO.
As for engineering labs, they may provide you supplies or have you buy your own. While you're generally scheduled to be there for 3-4 hours, you might get done in an hour, or you might stay later. In any case, you finish all your work and record all your data there, as you won't have access to all that expensive equipment later when other groups are doing that same lab experiment themselves. You type up your reports at home, print them out, and hand them in the next week.
Don't get expectations built-up over first year labs. It's not until your senior project that you actually start doing your professor's bidding. You agree on a project, work with others in industry, and schedule lab time for your own uses however you see fit.
In particular someone is going to have a problem, they will ask you to work on it, and probably point you to some pre-existing code for you to understand.
Of course, industry would have more excuses to use Microsoft software, so with a University job, if they use Microsoft stuff that is a red-light, "something's not quite right here".
Stephanhttp://stephan.sugarmotor.org
The first day will likely be spent in paperwork and safety briefings. One of the key things you should be told is "bio-safety level". Depending on location and age (over 18 or not) you may be restricted as to the level of organisms you can deal with. ----- Most important trait: Ask questions. Ask dumb questions. Ask questions even if you feel embarrassed not knowing the answer. You don't want to hurt yourself or a colleague by guessing. Nor does your employer want you to screw up an experiment by guessing, but that's secondary to safety.
is that communication is really important here - talk to people - listen more - remember that the most important communication happens in unstructured places - coffee breaks, having a beer, waiting for meetings to start etc etc - if you aren't hanging out with the other people you're working with you wont get the really creative group thing you're there to do working
Every lab has its own distinct culture, some of which comes from the discipline, some of which comes from the PI (Principal Investigator), and some of which comes from the other people in the lab. I've worked in several academic labs and the culture in each was startlingly different. I'm starting my own lab now, and I imagine it will turn out different from any in my prior experience!
:)
That said, I'll offer some general advice.
1. Unfortunately, there will probably no one whose job it is to set you up. And there are a thousand and one little details that you need to learn. Where is the photocopier? What do I do when the printer runs out of toner? Where do I order this reagent? Where happens when the biohazard is full? And so on. _Politely_ ask the lowest person on the totem pole until you get an answer.
2. There usually is not an official hierarchy, but the unofficial hierarchy generally runs along the lines of PI -> Postdocs -> Graduate Students -> Research Assistants -> Undergraduates -> Others, modified by time of residence and area of expertise.
3. Everyone in academia likes to be asked to offer their opinion. Even if you think you know the answer, you will often learn something by asking a question or two.
4. Nobody likes it when the new guy is a know-it-all. Even if you do actually know it all, wait a little while before letting everyone else know
5. Have fun and relax. No one expects you to solve all their research problems in your first week.
6. Also, a lot of academic research time (especially in the type of lab it seems you're going to) is "in front of a screen and a good net connection," albeit with access to a lot more peer-reviewed literature than you've probably had access to in the past.
The PI will be nice to you and you'll have a good time, but don't expect to be the intellectual driving force for a project. You'll get assigned to a grad student or post doc and end up doing all of the menial molecular biology tasks they have to do on a daily basic like mini-preps, restriction digest, and cloning. You'll probably get to do a PCR reaction or two
I have worked in a couple of experimental physics labs, and on my first days I was given a big pile of reading material. The professor also picked out a small project for me to work on. Then I asked the grad students lots of questions because the professors were not available much. They are very busy.
How research works very much depends on both your field and your particular group. Ask the grad students whenever you are unsure of what to do.
The environment is informal. My hours were never set for me.
Undergrads are low on the totem pole, and their projects typically are not very important ones for the first couple of months.
There will be a set of formal rules, some of which are never followed and others the violation of which will get you fired instanter. You may or may not be told which are which - and certainly not told all of the distinctions. There will be an informal set of rules that you won't ever be told about but will have to discover on your own or face the consequences. These will include everything from standards of break-room refrigerator etiquette to which buttons you don't dare ever push (both literal and figurative buttons).
There will be several types of people there. There will be the ass kisser who is always sucking up to the bosses - and who may in fact be your boss. There will be the stickler for rules, and there will be those who don't pay any attention to the rules but still get a lot of work done. 20% of the people there will be highly competent and professional (for certain values of "professional"), and about 80% who are bumbling morons that make you wonder how they keep their jobs. There will be one guy who everybody looks to for guidance, decisions, and ideas, and who will almost definitely not have any formal authority. There will be some who you become fast friends with almost immediately, and some who will hate you on sight. There will be a guy who loves any opportunity to help you out, another who will help you out, but only as an excuse to rub your face in what you don't know, and one who you'd better not approach with any question that he thinks is beneath him (i.e. one he can't answer). One or more of these qualities may be present in the same individual.
There will be cliques and power structures that you will not be told about, yet you will be expected to find your place in them, possibly including taking sides. Choosing wrong could affect your entire career, but will at least substantially affect your success at that particular workplace. You will be expected to exercise more authority than you actually have, but no more than the unwritten rules allow you. You will have to discover that upper limit without crossing it by enough to have serious consequences.
You will be expected to put in extra effort, and perhaps extra time above what is supposedly expected, but will be looked down upon, and possibly resented, if you give too much. You will be expected to do what the boss actually wants, regardless of what he says he wants. You will be expected to do what the rest of your team wants, and expected to figure out what that is. The expectations of your boss and those of your co-workers will not always be compatible, but you are expected to meet both. You will be responsible for following policies which are counter to the purpose of the job, and which may even contradict each other. That will not be an allowable excuse for not getting the job done.
Your continued employment will be subject to seemingly arbitrary decisions of the boss and/or your co-workers. These decisions will not be based solely on your performance or compliance to policies and rules, but those will be the stated reason for your termination should that ever occur. Your promotions and salary will be subject to the same constraints.
The good news is that (most) everybody else already knows all this, accommodations will be made (within limits), and it's possible to successfully negotiate this and actually get real work done.
And, no, I've never worked in a lab.
Insightful and funny are really the same thing, except one has a punch line.
From my experience in Ivy League labs, it's all about the lab ethanol supplies.
Just make sure to drink only the 98% or 99% pure ethanol, without any denaturing contaminants. And bring plenty of mixers, 'cause that stuff is wicked strong.
Parent is right about the ass-paddling and wet t-shirt contests, though.
I've got a Ph.D. in Molecular Biology and am currently a post-doctoral research associate in a molecular/cell biology lab. Although I can't speak for the computer / biology interface, here's some things that I've learned from a wet lab. I also have a student starting in a few weeks, so I'll give you the same advice that I gave him. Here goes: 1. It's called research for a reason - you do the same stuff over and over again until you get it to work. And even then, sometimes it doesn't work. And no one can explain it. 2. Keep a good notebook. You never know when the smallest detail may be the cause of a problem (See #1). Someone who comes later may have to try to reproduce your results. Sometimes this person is you. 3. There are as many PI (principal investigator) types as there are flavors of Jelly Belly candies. Some examples would be the demi-god (You, nor any of your lab mates, have ever seen them except on your first day), the helicopter (They hover over your every move and plan everything for you), the slacker (They have a foosball table in their office, and they schedule weekly tournaments), and the workaholic (They spend 100 hours a week in lab, why don't you?). Once you identify your PI's type, there are various ways to handle them. In general, do what your lab mates do and you'll be fine. 4. Have fun. You're getting payed to screw around with things. And no one expects everything that you do to work the first time. How awesome is that? The only better job is TV weatherman. Hope this helps.
"Me fail English, that's unpossible." --Ralphie
My under-grads are involved heavily in my research. That doesn't mean they get to run off and do whatever they want. I bought the toys and toiled a long time to build a substantial lab. I'm not selfish but my research comes first. Once they prove they have a clue by succeeding at different objectives they are encouraged to set up projects and work on them. We do a lot of cyber-warfare, network centric warfare experiments so some of the tools we play with could cause havoc. A big part of working in any lab is learning what research really is, and what is going to be expected within the discipline. Like reporting out research activities to journals and such. The way the original question is posed is as if the new under graduate student already knows all there is to know and want to do their research. Doing a comprehensive literature review, creating or choosing a methodology that is appropriate, and then finally gathering data is an art. It takes time to learn.
--- Location Unknown
Take good notes, keep a good, organized laboratory notebook. Become very familiar with the instruments and/or software that you will be using. If you know how to use this well, and you become well known as an expert at a particular experiment/procedure, professors will love you for it, and you'll be a valuable resource to them later on (they may even ask you to come back a year or two later, if you're available, and pay you to do a particular experiment or train someone how to do what you've done).
Don't expect to work in one lab too long. You'll probably end up working in 1-3 different laboratories as an undergraduate, move on to a different one (or different school) for graduate school, maybe another lab for a PhD, and another one for a post-doc. That's the typical route -- expect it. There's not too much advancement in laboratory work without some type of graduate school, unless you want to end up maintaining equipment or working in IT or something. But if you start undergraduate research as a freshman in college, there's no reason why you shouldn't have a PhD in 7-8 years, easily.
A lot of your coworkers will not be American. A good number will be from India, and more from China. Don't let this be a reason you avoid them. The US has some of the top research universities in the world, and we usually get the cream of the crop in terms of foreign students and researchers (even some of the smaller, less well known American schools can be well known and well respected overseas). Their English may not be all that good, but most of them do know their shit, and can be quite helpful. And most of them do want to learn more English and become better at it, so talking with them will help them out as well as you.
Anyway, good luck to you. I'm not sure where you're going to be, but if you're going to be here, I might run into you,... Cheers!
I've worked at several labs in programming circles so I'll give you all I know.
First off, the quality of code that comes out of Universities is generally of poor quality. The research that is done at these labs is interesting and is generally used to write some paper or advance some research so time isn't wasted on doing anything except getting things running.
Yes, some people (very few people) do write good code but for the most part I would not consider the code practices used at a lab as how you should always write your code.
Most labs have a prof that runs it and quite a few masters students. You'll find the uptight masters student and the way laid back University student (a lot of these folks) and in general you'll find it very relaxed. Do not take it relaxed though as the prof likes good workers.
Depending on your experience you might just be an IT guy to start with and then will move forward from there. Perhaps you'll support the students but in the end you probably won't write much code. You'll have tons of time to do your own thing though.
internet like monkeys'
I can't comment on your CS labs as I am a bio science grad student but for the molecular biology labs, expect a lot of frustations. Molecular biology is an unforgiving mistress. Assuming that you will take "wet labs", you will be dealing with volumes of 0.1 - 10 micro liters and setups such as the PCR and cloning reactions that are more art than science. I have had PCR setups that suddenly decide to go on strike for no discernible reason, even though they worked well before. Only after pledging my soul to Chaos Undivided would the PCR work again. Expect to be hunched over in front of your laminar flow cabinet for hours on end while trying to keep focused on what you are doing. One mistake in pipetting and you're back to square one. Regarding the Professors, it depends on where you are studying and the individual professors themselves. However good or bad your professors will be, you are now expected to have the initiative to look for information yourself. If you will share your lab with grad students, there is a chance that you will be ignored by them or treated as an annoyance. ALWAYS ask first before using any reagents or machines in the lab and NEVER take someone's things, favourite pipettes, favourite work bench etc. It always pays to keep yourself in the grad student's good books as they will be a great help to you, even more than your professors. Finally, treat the lab assistants as you would treat a teacher back at school. Although they are usually the lowest ranking staff members, they have a wealth of experience and knowledge that you can access if you are friendly with them.
The question boils down to this:
"What's my first day doing X going to be like?"
Is this "Stuff that matters" or chatty-Cathy gossip hour?
What will be posted tomorrow? "What will my first kiss with a girl be like?" But, of course, we all know there won't be a single honest answer here because the question involves "them".
First of all, your post doesn't really say whether you are entering this lab as a tech or a student. I assume a student because no one would hire a tech out of high school when they can get a undergrad for free (who has taken classes and actually knows something).
You are not going to be expected to find your own ass being fresh out of high school. If you are competent and work hard, you will be noticed and it will be to your benefit. I have had collegues who have gotten lots of recomendations, nominations for fellowships, ect by doing good work right out of the box.
Lab is usually chill. Some PI's like to run it like a family, some like a gulag. Keep laced up until you get the feel, then you will know when you can BS with your labmates and when you have to pull a 14 hour each day on a weekend to get something done (usually applies to grads, nobody trusts undergrads with real work).
I have had some monster PI's and some who I owe my career too. You are young and early enough in your academic career to switch if they guy is crazy (one of mine made the techs cry EVERY DAY, we went through a tech every two weeks.)
Your labmates and the demiPI's (post docs, grad students, assistant profs) are the ones you will learn most of the ropes and info from. They don't expect you to have it wired on your first or fiftith day, but make sure you don't alienate or piss them off cuz they are spending time away from their work to help the nOOB. Most help and info is handed out with a smile so don't be afraid to ask, it's better that pretending to know and fcuking up.
Join a frat, club, whatever. Meet people in whatever way you like the most. Don't listen to haters who say this is bad, that is bad, the whole point of freekin college is to learn, think, and find stuff out for yourself. (yes, you can be a uber nerd and be in a frat, it will teach you some social skills and you will have crazy experiences (good ones) that you can never get anywhere else. Just be choosy, frats are like jobs, schools, friends, bosses: some are cool, some are assholes).
Finally, ask to see if you can head up a project or experiment (after you get a little more salty) with the hope of publishing. This will be your ticket to the choise grad schools, fellowships and funding, women (ok, not women -> see clubs, frat, ect).
Have fun and meet people (and try not to subsist on junk food, the fresh 15 is no joke)
-The more you learn, the more things you realize you don't know-
Your mileage will vary -- a lot.
...
... you can read /. instead of working, or even watch a illegal Chinese video stream of a soccer game. If you want to do work, you'll still get the open access repositories, and since you're on campus, probably some for-pay ones too. Literature searches are the bread-and-butter of the sciences - that you have experience doing them probably puts you ahead of 75% of your classmates.
As others have mentioned your very first day in the lab will likely be occupied by banal administrivia. (Safety lectures, wandering around to various offices to get forms signed, etc.), but after that
It all depends heavily on your advisor. Some are dictatorial, heavy-handed micromanagers. Some are laid back, hands off, "see you at your thesis defense" types. Some want to be treated with fear and reverence, like some exhaulted guru. Others want to be treated like your drinking buddy. There's a whole range in between as well. To some extent, the attitude of the guy at the top will set the tone, and the people underneath will follow, although often there will be coworkers in the lab which have a different attitude. Note that as an Undergraduate, you probably won't be working directly under the big man - you'll likely be assigned to a Grad student or Post-doc who'll be the person who is directly responsible for what your day is like. To start with they'll probably have a simple project which they want you to complete, although depending on the amount of competence and independence you show (and the character of the lab), you may be able to branch out and explore what you fancy. Theoretically, Grad students and Post-docs are training to be independent researchers, so they should have a fair amount of autonomy, although in some labs the boss holds tighter reigns than others. Undergrads are usually viewed as errand-boys, doing odd jobs for a more senior student, but the good ones can usually wrangle an independent project.
So while I can't say specifically what your time will be like, I can give general impressions. First, it's not going to be as bad as you think. Academic labs are notoriously laid back and forgiving, especially for people just starting out (remember, it's a university - the point is to teach people). Also, most Grad students and Post-docs aren't all that different from Undergraduates - they may have graduated, but they have stayed sheltered from "The Real World". Others have mentioned www.phdcomics.com, and, although slightly exaggerated, it hits close to the mark.
I'm slightly confused at your insinuations that a university lab doesn't have computers and the internet - in my experience, we're on the internet constantly, and if there isn't a computer at your desk or bench, there's a shared one 20 ft away. And (again, depending on the lab) there's little restriction on what you do with it
So, relax. On your first day err on the side of being polite and deferential, but still demonstrate your ability to work independently, and your enthusiasm for the research. After a week or so, you'll get a feel for the lab and what's expected of you.
(Oh, and a common book suggested is "At The Bench", by Kathy Barker, from Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Press - I didn't like it much myself, but others seem to swear by it.)
Generally speaking in four months do not expect to finish your project as laid out at the get go. The objectives will change, and most of your 'usable' data will arrive in the last two weeks. In most cases summer projects contain lofty goals that are more fact finding missions to see if the research should be further pursued without tying up lab resources.
That being said, it is a lot of fun. My best advice to you is to READ and keep up with the current literature. Also be respective of the graduate students working towards their degrees. Summer is essential to them and nothing worse is to be tripping over a summer student.
I spent several years in a university biology lab. I can't speak firsthand about a tech lab, but from my associations with others I have gathered that the following similarity holds true for nearly all university research environments:
The single largest factor determining your experience will be your professor. The specific attitudes and personalities of professors and the methods by which they run their labs varies quite a lot. The only thing you can really count on is that the prof will be the overlord. The undergrads, the grads, the post-docs, and the paid laboratory employees all have their fates tied to the whims of the prof. You may be allowed time to work on your own projects, but you can expect to spend most of your time working on HIS projects.
Some advice from the voice of experience:
Make certain before you begin that you truly like the professor and are truly interested in his specific area of research. Otherwise you will be in for a long, miserable, and possibly fruitless semester. If you have problems with either your prof or the research that you think may remain unresolved, don't hesitate to look into other programs with other profs! I know more than one student who has unsuccessfully attempted to tough through a program that didn't suit him. One wasted semester is better than four or five wasted semesters.
1. Take an interest in what other people are doing. First of all, most people love to talk about what they're doing. (provided you aren't asking at a bad time) Second, what everyone is doing may actually fit together and be motivated towards a common goal. Understanding that goal and how other people are working towards it can help you understand and motivate your own work. 2. Some labs will have extracurricular activities. Show up. Once you have some experience with the group, consider organizing extracurricular activities yourself, even if its just a trip to the bar. 3. Everything takes longer than you think it will. A lot longer. Try not to get frustrated. 4. If you think you are going to need parts that have to be ordered, work your ass off until they're in the mail. Then, while you're waiting for them to arrive, you can catch up on your other work. 5. There are going to be times when you need equipment that others are using. Don't sweat it. If they know you need it, they'll try to free it up for you. It might take a while though. Likewise, try to free up equipment other people need. 6. Don't panic.
As a computer science undergrad I really enjoyed my lab time, it was great way to socialise as well as work. Most of the time there wasn't much pressure.
As a post grad though I found that the lab, which I shared with six other people, was a distraction. Within a few months I'd changed to working from my lodgings over ssh. That way I got the resources I needed from my lab, but the peace and quiet I needed to get things done.
Labs can be great, but unless you can be certain of being undisturbed, they can be quite hard places to innovate.
I did my best programming work from home, and my best thinking whilst walking alongside our local river.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
My first day in my lab consisted of tours and safety training such as "This has cyanide in it, and this is acid. If you mix them, you die." While your lab may be different, you'll be well off if you know your stuff, be independent, but know when to ask for help. It's easy to put yourself in danger of bodily harm.
you're paying how much for your education?
they should be serving coffee and donuts!
Don't worry about it. It all depends on who you get as your professor, and the discipline. I attend a research institution and have worked with both theoreticians and experimentalists, and they both act the same way. Just get it done, they don't care how. You are going to be given a project, and then set free to do it. My professor freshman year never even was in the lab, and we rarely spoke, only on occasions when he was looking for data. I liked him, but he had other things to deal with. On the theoretical side, your job is pencils and paper, and discussion. If your professor is young, you can expect a demanding schedule to hash things out, to discuss, and to read. An older professor will usually not care when you arrive, as long as he is there, and will lecture you about something, then ask for feedback. Younger professors are more demanding, and you get more credit and do more important things. Older professors are more laid-back (they can be) but you may not find yourself winning the Millenium prize just yet.
Depends on a lot of factors. I assisted in two different university labs and my experience in both were pretty different. First one was a smaller lab with two grad students and a post-doc. Since it was my first time in a lab, not much is expected from an undergrad. Just learn as much as you can about proper procedures and read up on literature that is relevant to the work being done in a lab. Since it was a smaller lab, I was always in contact with the PI and we always had discussions.
The second lab I was in was larger with two postdocs, five grad students, a lab tech, and another undergrad with me. Since I already had some experience, I didn't have to learn all the intro stuff. I was assigned to work on a project with one of the grad students and didn't have much contact with the PI since he was so busy. My advice is to completely understand what the research is about and why they are doing it and continue asking questions and advice. You won't be expected to solve any major problems that the lab is working on so just learn as much as you can. I found the labs to have a very relaxed atmosphere but I guess I got lucky and it will be different for other labs out there.
First thing - make sure that you love whatever the research is. Like everyone has said, lab work is rarely glamorous - but if you have a serious, genuine love for the research it's self, it makes the boring stuff fun.
Next most important, in my mind, is to find friendly, fun people. Your PI will really set the tone - professional or not, fun or not, informal or really formal. Make sure that you're in an environment where you feel comfortable and supported.
Since you're coming in right out of high school, you probably won't be expected to know a lot right off the bat. You'll likely need to learn a lot, quickly. I coped by taking really precise informational and procedural notes, and doing a lot of background reading - papers published by the professors/grad students mostly.
Bottom line, though - make sure you love it. Lab work is utter tedium if you don't, and sometimes even if you do.
My Uncle told me on his first day working in a lab (not in a university) he was asked to go to the store room for a "long stand". He went and asked for one, and the stores guy went to get it. 15 minutes later... you get the idea ;-)
Then his 'team' said his labcoat looked too small, so they told him to hold his arms out so they could measure it. A real long stand was quickly put through the sleeves so he couldn't move his arms.
The first thing you have to do is lose the Dilbert crap. Do that, people will take you seriously, and the rest will fall into place.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
No offense, but if you're about to graduate from high school, you haven't had enough experience to apply it to any comparisons offered here. So, take it as it comes. Trust that the instructor knows what they're doing, and no matter whether that's true or not, do your best to accomplish what's set before you in the way they say to. That's the best way to get a good grade, and they might actually know what they're doing (and as I said, you don't have the experience to be able to judge that). However the instructor approaches the subject, approach it the same way, and with enthusiasm. I can't say what your lab will be like, but I think following the above will give you the best chance to like the experience, and probably learn the most from it.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
or other effluents, always was your hands *before* as well as after using the bathroom.
HTH
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
maybe i'm jumping the gun and you aren't one of these typical gen y kids, but oh lordy i'm looking forward to the comming wave of youtube video's of them freaking out in the work place.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
It is VERY important you be well-dressed and groomed at all times in the lab. A 3-piece suit is expected at all times. On Grace Hoppers birthday you'll need a tuxedo and white gloves.
2. Leave late.
3. Kick ass on anything you are asked to do regardless of how small and unimportant it might be.
I've found that this works great in research as well as real jobs especially if one is a new, lowly grunt.
You can live with a monster PI, but if your techs hate you, your work will consistently and spectacularly fail.
Coffee & donuts for the lab grunts is a great way to make sure you get the help you really will need.
I work in a med school lab, permanant staff. I've been with the PI for 15 years, or so. Your first day will be wasted with administrators that have to justify their existence, and paperwork. If not the first, soon. If you're just out of high school, you'll be at the bottom of the pecking order, and there's plenty of peckers in that order.
Your experience will depend on the PI. Expect to start doing the dirty work, stuff no one else wants to do, because it's BOORING. Do it well, don't gripe, your attitude will make or break your experience. Don't wait to be told what to do, find stuff to do, ask your cow-orkers, whatever. If you're unsure of something, try to figure it out before asking. No-one minds being asked once, everyone hates being asked ten times. Don't expect to get much attention from the PI, he (or she) has lots to do, keeping the grant money coming in to keep everyone fed.
My own PI isn't the kind of guy that wants to spoon-feed. He expects us to figure out what needs to be done to accomplish his goals, and to do that. I know what he wants, and try to give it to him; he knows what I want, and gives it to me (He wants spiffy software with lots of eye-candy so he looks good at talks, and I want independence and to be left alone)
This sounds like the kind of pep-talk every new employee gets, but it's true. Go figure.
I also can't figure out for the life of me what evolutionary engineering entails...
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
...just stupid people
Learn to accept and live with failure, if it was easy to do, it would have been done. Learn from failures and keep trying. At the top of most fields many decisions are made for political reasons or personal ones rather than what is the best science. The best thing I could say or hear about someone for a job recommendation when asked was: "they write well."
I will echo some of the previous posts:
First and foremost exactly how the work-day goes depends entirely on the lab.
That pretty much applies to things like: etiquette, what the prof/boss is like, how your seniors (grad students/etc.) will treat you, etc.
Generally speaking though - at a university lab the main thing that will come across is the fact that it is supposed to be a place of learning. New students are expected to know very little and will need training on any of the esoteric lab equipment (or even non-esoteric lab equipment - since you're talking about a lab with a biology focus in which not everyone is a bio-person). The professor should be aware of this fact - and should have instituted a culture (from PhD students on down) which fosters the idea that people are there to learn (including the professor! Since the whole point of research is to discover new things).
I can tell you that nearly all of my experiences in university/research labs have been good - which is the reason I still work in one now (and have committed myself to the path of Piling it Higher and Deeper). YMMV. But I will say this - if the lab is not structured to teach as well as get research done - it is not the place to be in.
Two things to guide your experience:
:) Unlike postdocs and grad students, this is their job, and they're not desperately trying to scrape together enough data to graduate or (worse) to establish an independent career. They will usually have more time and patience to teach the bright young undergrad the ropes. Treat them with the utmost respect, and they will be your best mentors.
1. Summer undergrads almost never get anything of substance accomplished in a molecular biology lab. I started working in labs at age 16, and the first time I started to feel even modestly productive was after two years of grad school. The first time I even generated any data at all worth publishing was after a year-long (~1000 hr) senior project. A summer is just too short. You're there to learn the techniques, to gain some experience in how to design an experiment and how it fits into a bigger picture, and to muddle through your experiments as best you can. The techniques are complex, the science is complex, and you haven't been exposed to any of it before. Also understand that many of the more "interesting" experiments have time-frames of months, rather than weeks, anyway, so you'll likely be doing either simpler work or self-contained chunks of more complex work. But if you learn these "simple" tasks well and can perform them reliably, you can be a genuine asset to the lab. It takes about ten years to train an independent scientist, and this is your Year 0. But that's OK. Everyone else in the lab knows this, too. Be nice, be inquisitive and curious, and do your best to be helpful.
2. Be especially nice to the technicians (aka research assistants) and the staff scientists (the post-postdocs). Odds are they've been around longer than the itinerant postdocs and grad students, and they know how everything works and where everything is. They'll be happy to teach you if for no other reason than to make sure you don't mess anything up, as they would be the ones who have to fix it afterwards.
And remember to have fun!
"Your average English major not only knows that one, they can explain the etymology of it."
What do insects have to do with English majors?
Sheesh. Kids.
If there's any chemistry/biology going on, there's a simple rule: Trust no one. Take enough safety classes to know more about safety than your boss does. Did you know that hydrofluoric acid can leave its aqueous habitat and condense in your eyes, then eat your eyes out? Even if you do, does the guy with the beaker next to you know? What might be in his beaker?
More generally, don't assume that people who know "more" than you know everything. Be willing to challenge people to provide real answers; don't be a pansy like Wolf Blitzer. If you force them to understand their own stuff better, they will benefit.
The comment about you being at the bottom of the food chain is quite right. Let me put it to you bluntly. You know nothing. Even if you know a lot about a variety of things, you know nothing, because that is your position. The professor is chief dictator, with nearly absolute power if he so chooses, far in excess of the power typically given to a corporate boss. Research professors get tenure, are accountable to virtually no one except granting agencies (which usually reward success, not politeness), and often have large egos. Given the size of the group you are describing, it's quite possible you will be completely ignored by the head prof, because he won't consider you genuinely worth a lot of time, and is just willing to tolerate you getting some experience by being around the other people in his lab.
So with all those blunt negative things out in the air, try not to be surprised by them when they happen. Go in there to have fun while learning and absorbing whatever knowledge you can. Find well-informed grad students to help you and guide you. In a university lab, most of the work is really done by grad students. Professors are intellects pulling strings at the top, but grad students are intellects doing all the detailed work. So get yourself involved with these grad students, and have an interest in the details of their work if they're willing to discuss it.
For your own project, identify the grad students and/or post docs which are most appropriate to ask each kind of question that could come up. Much of surviving a research lab is about knowing who to go to for help with each small problem you could face, because at that level, no one knows enough to answer all the questions. Depending on the professor, he might not want you to bother him with trivia regarding your project, but he probably will want to remain engaged in hearing the progress, and in providing pieces of guidance here and there. If your progress involves problems (and sometimes problems are progress), try to think of a plan of attack before presenting them to the prof. If you have questions, try to have specific ones, because your prof sounds like one who is managing a lot of people.
Remember that your prof is managing many people, and so may be detached from the specific details of your project. In most cases, the prof can probably comprehend it quite well though, and just doesn't have time to be up to speed on each project. To succeed on a longterm project, you need to become the expert on that topic, but you definitely won't start that way. So use the guidance of the more experienced people to lead you in the right direction toward gaining that expertise.
I work in an well-funded well-published evolutionary biology / computer science / mathematical biology lab as an undergrad, and here's the deal. Computational Biology is 90% data gathering and 10% analysis. You can imagine what your work will entail. I can almost guaranty that you will be using Perl to manipulate large datasets in preparation to give them to someone else higher in the lab. If you're really really lucky you might get to use some R functions as a drill. Day 1, you will feel like a huge idiot. Especially since you're from HS, and absolutely no one expects you to know otherwise. DO NOT attempt to bullshit - you won't be put on the spot, and inevitably you will look stupid if you try. To make your life easier (i don't know if you're coming from Java or something).. familiarize yourself with these things in this order: 1) Perl (bread and butter) 2) R (multiple regressions, MCMC, etc) 3) C (simulations) 4) awk (quick and dirty) 5) vim (master this) ANNDDD one last thing that will save you from mistakes. EVERYONE in Comp bio knows how to program. Don't go into your lab acting like a l337 hackz0r. You're doing the programming because nobody else has time to do it. Cheers, and good luck.
after the first week you are no longer exciting/excited and the other people have work to do. so enjoy the first few days, and then sink into monotonous drudgery (for that is how work gets done).
Don't say "yes yes yes" as if you understand when really you don't. Often this is a cultural thing.
Saying yes when you don't understand is a waste of time and could potentially be dangerous/very expensive. If you ask for clarification its not a sign you're stupid. If you just say yes and screw something up you will end up being far more unpopular in the lab than needing the extra minute of explanation.
Labs are pretty independent so there won't be someone watching you carefully to see you do everything correctly. Learn how to do it correctly before you make the expensive mistake that destroys the shared instrument.
...Aperture?
I'm not writing these to be a troll. I am just being realistic having intimate knowledge of the life of a PhD/PostDoc/etc research lab, and knowing that, at least where I was, every "high school outreach" project we ever attempted turned out to be a complete and utter disaster resulting in the loss of thousands of dollars worth of research at the hands of over-eager high school grads and freshmen who had no clue what they were doing yet thought they knew everything.
1) Learn to make coffee, really good coffee. Get a burr-mill grinder, and only get either city or dark roast beans, and only from the Santos region of Brazil or from Kenya, or possibly Ethiopia. Colombian Supremo is out of favor. For God's sake, don't fuck it up.
2) Learn Word, Excel, and PowerPoint frontwards, backwards, and inside out. You'll likely be using these to do data entry and make graphs and write reports for the scientists.
3) Absolutely positively forget about laying your hands on ANY lab equipment or participating in any way in performing experiments.
4) Go into it knowing that you don't know squat, even if you think you do. Even if you got that pretty blue ribbon in your 11th grade science fair, you still don't know squat. The researchers will not be interested at all in your opinion or what you think you know. They don't have time to demonstrate to you why you don't know squat, and will only get annoyed if you incessantly ask questions about why what you thought you knew was bullshit.
5) Listen to everything they say and tell you, and pay attention to everything they do, and have a good time being a gopher. You are there to observe, listen, and learn. You are not there to help run experiments, offer your pseudo-theories, or participate in any meaningful way.
I can tell you what my first day, and really my first week, were like - standing and/or bumbling around trying to get used to where everything is and how everything is done while being completely ineffectual. After that, it depended on the situation.
I have a question. You're out of high school, and you're working in a university lab? No offense, but it is highly likely you will be doing nothing but grunt work. While on occassion labs will take (college) freshmen as work study, I've never heard of them getting to work on "cool" projects. In my lab (bioengineering) they basically did all the chores. I say "did" because we had such problems with freshmen my PI won't take any more under work study. Our lower limit is college juniors, with one notable exception of one sophmore who is working on a really simple project.
Since you're straight out of high school, they're going to have to teach you what to do. It could take a while, and if the field you end up working in is like mine, all the science is grad-level and there's very little resources on a basic level.
I expect that you'll be assigned a PI and you'll be given a project/sub-project to work on, either by yourself or more likely with another student or grad student. What this project will be is hard to say. It will definitely involve computing in some way, though: simulation, data analysis, design.
Don't be too apprehensive. Most labs are fairly chill, and the people are cool for the most part. There's always a few bad apples, but you've got a long ways before bad PIs can influence your career.
If the school is anything like the one I went to, it seems like you will be leaps and bounds above your classmates. Most first year classes are a joke. My advice is be careful because it does get harder real fast.
I did almost nothing in my first year and a half of Uni, and still got really good grades. I partied pretty hard, and next thing I knew my edge was gone. I went from being way ahead to being behind and it was hard to become a 'good student' again.
I've been a prof (biology), and therefore obviously also a grad student. Good profs are not PHBs. That's around 0.05% at a wild guess. Tread very carefully until you're *sure* what species of prof you have. You depend totally on him or her, and there's no real appeal against anything they do. (Start appealing, and you're a troublemaker and dead meat anyway.) It's a feudal system.
If you find out you can't stand your prof, change topics somewhat, make some plausible excuse, and go work with someone whom you've vetted more carefully. As an undergrad, you're probably not going to be seeing that much of the profs anyway. Post docs and grad students are going to be your main mentors. Post docs are wildly overworked, so never ever ever waste their time. You may find yourself squashed like a bug if you do. (Did I mention that it's not a democracy?)
As for learning, techniques, and all that straightforward, non-political stuff: that's the easy part. Just do whatever works.
The cake is a lie.
I'm a post-doc so I'm one of the guys you'll be working for. My undergrads do the dishes on the first day. I'm not going to let you f^c& up anything important! This is the real deal, not just some class or a "learning experience." If you do a good job at the menial stuff then I get the feeling that this is a person who can get things done and I start to teach you the real stuff. If you're too good for simple tasks then I inevitably end up kicking you out of the lab. Also, plan to put in some real hours in the lab. My experience is that students who don't show up for 12+ hours / week don't retain anything I teach them and it's a waste of your time and mine. This is a serious commitment so don't fill up your schedule with 20 credit hours worth of classes that will tear you away from the lab for exams half the time.
First day: sucksfortherats
I am one of those PIs you might encounter. I think the best response above is by by raaum. Asking what the experience will be like is like asking what the typical childhood is like. Asking what the PI is likely to be like is like asking what your classmates are like. There are many different attitudes and subcultures. I run a small group and like to interact closely with my students. Of course I am interested in producing significant scientific results, but I view the principal product of my group to be a few very special, well-trained students. Some PIs are more project focused and run the group like a small business. There are all variations in between and variations that don't lie on a line connecting these approaches. You have to figure out where you best thrive and put yourself in that situation. If the going gets tough, you may need to toughen-up and work hard or it may just be the wrong situation for you and you should find another group. Things may go very well and you will want to stay on through four years and even into graduate school. Things may go very well, but maybe you should change groups in a couple of years to get a more varied experience.
Find a good faculty advisor who is not your research advisor and seek his or her advice as an independent check. Take the advice of you fellow students seriously but remember they don't have much more perspective than you do and students have a way of making their own little echo-chamber of gripes and/or cult of personality around the PI
I got my start as a high school student in a government lab and earned my way into my own little project that worked out well. As an undergrad I worked on a piece of a bigger project and so had to integrate my work with others. As a grad student I worked on projects that were collaborative with other students, projects that my advisor needed done because we were funded for them, and my own little ideas as well (eventually forming the basis of my thesis). I even spent a semester working on a massive high energy physics project that went well, but taught me I did not want a career in that field. As a post-doc I had a great advisor who taught me how to do the job as a professional. All of these experiences were valuable and positive and came at the right time for me in my own development.
The whole point of academic research (perhaps as opposed to corporate research) is to cut a new trail. This goes for the scientific work as well as the training of students. We are really just making it up as we go.
Good luck, keep a sound footing, you almost can't go wrong.
...it's just like the 2nd day. Wait until then and then you'll know for sure what to expect.
click on his handle at top of page and you'll get an idea.
rd
I'd like to think of slashdot as a place where we could move beyond this generational warfare.
Get a grip grandpa. When you were just starting college, you were a know it all too. You did stupid things, spoke out of turn, presumed you knew everything, and in general annoyed the people who knew what they were doing.
ALL young people (no matter what stupid "Gen" letter you want to arbitrarily assign to them) are immature and clueless. That's what it's like to be young. The right thing to do is realize this fact and show patience, maturity, humor, and guidance.
You are doing the wrong thing. You are expecting teenagers to act like 20 or 30 somethings, and ignoring the fact that you used to be just like them. Realize what's going on and start acting your age.
Thank you Dave Raggett
If, after every time you pull the lever, you receive an elecrtic shock, you might want to give some careful consideration to who the subject of the experiment really is.
Have gnu, will travel.
I don't know about computer science lab, but in physics lab expect doing a mountain of work for a measly one hour credit. That hold true for chemistry as well.
Or whatever the equivalent is in your lab. I did a bit of undergrad volunteer work (I'm an RA now after my honours year and am scouting for PhD projects)and most of that time was putting together a database of the labs custom synthetic compounds. The sad truth is they probably can't afford to trust you with anything too important (and therefore interesting) so take what you can get and learn everything you can.
You say you are going into a molecular lab, if you hear people talking about running gels and blots see if you can sticky beak in and get an idea of what they are doing and how they do it as protein and DNA gels are a fairly typical assay and a good skill to learn. This goes for any commonly used technique or assay in your lab, you may not have the background to fully understand it but even having a superficial knowledge means you'll pick it up more quickly when you have to learn it 'for real' in your future undergrad work (I assume you're going into science) and will be able to relate it back to a real world situation rather than having to learn about it in a vacuum.
My experience is similar to other science types who have posted here in that research labs aren't anything like a corporate environment. If anything they are like a cult with a charismatic leader and strong inclination towards independence from any larger institute they happen to be a part of. This isn't a bad thing but it does change how to approach your boss and so on. All head researchers came up from undergrad through PhD and post doc so there's no middle-management class who have no idea what the people at the bottom are doing (though some are better than others).
If you're lucky you'll get a small lab and get some one on one time with the lab head, if not you should still learn what you can from the RA or PhD student or whoever has been assigned to take care of you. Everyone will know more than you, at least in their specific field, so there should always be something to learn.
At the end of the day have fun, and keep your eye out for projects you are interested in since it should inform your future study choices.
Steal early and steal often. Make sure before your peers rip off your research that you just rip theirs off first. Then at your first opportunity expose your peers as inferior to prepare the stage for your defense months later when they come forward with accusations against you. Once they have been discredited you are free and clear to rise to the top. Eventually you will become head of the department if you can navigate the complex political tapestry that is a research lab.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
From what I can remember.... the whole lab was filled with Lewis Skolnick's.....(with their adjoining laughs... ha-ha-a-aaha--haha).
Now, if you were considering doing a PhD, I could understand that you actually wanted to know more about what it would be like before you started (I could tell you a lot about it, for instance), but you're coming out of high school and are going to do lab work - just go with it and see for yourself, don't worry about it this much, it really isn't such a big deal :).
Well, not quite. I had a lot of fun on the first day of my chemistry lab. The first words the lab manager said were these: "Do not stick your pipette into the large bottle with 1-molar hydrochloric acid because you'd spoil it. Pour some of it into another vessel and pull it from there. Whoever is caught putting his pipette into the bottle is immediately thrown out. Period."
Before the first day was over, 4 out of 30 were asked to come back next year if they really, really thought it'd be a good idea. Huh.
So pay attention. That's my advice to you. If you think something is boring, you might be in the wrong place.
Say out loud: I'm an Aspie and I'm somewhat proud, I guess. Uh. Can I write an email in all caps instead? Hm...
Always... no, never forget to check your references.
Towards the Singularity.
The main problems with new grad students I've observed is they dont choose the right research problems to work on. They are either interested in something too large to solve in three years- or one-year chunks to publish- like curing cancer or inventing the final theory of physics. Else they are considering doing something that has already been done but were not aware of. The purpose of working in a lab or for a professor is learn the right-size problems between these two extremes.
If your doing Mol bio the first thing you will do is make a 50-100ml of 0.5M EDTA (a constituent of many buffers) this is a long process... if there nice they will tell you you need to slowly add NaOHto get it to dissolve, you will then use this solution for the next 3+ years.
As the difference between lab and computer
Expect very very long debugging sessions. Experiments take between hours and months to run just once (any you may only have money to run it a few times).
Failure will be your constant companion when a nice reliable protocol blow up, you spend the first week in denial rerunning it a few times then next week you remake all the reagents, next week you get new samples, next week you spend in denial rerunning but this time thinking different thoughts while you put it together. keep this up for another month or so and then discover that the test tubes plastic has been changed and its no longer binds the protein coating the protocol depended on (or something equally stupid)
Remember you don't have access to a debugger or the source code
you have a black box.
Whats worse is that the only way to validate input/output is to put them through other black boxes. So experimental have to be designed to validate black boxes against each other (ie positive and lots of negative controls).
And maybe, just maybe the bug could be the result....
That's good advice for ANY first day.
After the first day, you're on your own.
Honestly, you have now become the Principle Investigator's Bitch.
That said, it depends on the lab. Back in my chemical engineering days, the PI was wonderful, but the grad students sucked. A friend from high school lamented the lack of ethics of his PI due to him doing all of the work, obtaining funding, coming up with the idea, etc... and the PI signing his name to the final product and taking all of the credit. My friend is now a PI in his own respect. My current Research Advisor, who acts as a PI, works with us on our projects, acting more as a facilitator.
In God we trust, all others require data.
Typical first day is paper reading, background junk, required university safety training, etc. Then you'll be assigned a project and typically work under a graduate student. Often, the project will be relatively closely associated with what the graduate student is doing for his research, but distinct enough that you have your own thing. You'll often start with grunt work (our lab had metal sample polishing, glassware cleaning is often involved in chem/bio labs) as a means to an end. You need to prep X to do Y, and hell if anyone else is doing the annoying X work. It may be debugging code, or something else. This will lead into your project if they've set up the experience well. It'll give background information and get you exposed to the material/give you an appreciation for the consequences of messing up. You WILL be low man on the totem pole. If you prove you're capable you'll get more autonomy as the weeks go on. There is a pecking order in a lab, typically set by experience and tenure in the lab. Don't expect to interact with the professor much. Univ. labs are run by the graduate students and PostDocs if the lab has any. You should try to schedule a meeting weekly with the professor if possible though. A good prof should gladly take an hour a week to talk about what is going on in the lab, results, hinderances, future plans, etc. Use it to help you out, but never talk bad about the others in the lab.
Is to carry a notebook (as in paper, not a computer) with you everywhere you go in the lab. Take lots of notes on everything. Anytime someone mentions something you aren't familiar with, write it down. Even if you don't have a chance to ask about it at the time, write it down so you can look it up later.
And by all means, write down every protocol someone describes to you. You'll probably work with people who are very familiar with how to do XYZ. They might tell you orally the first time how to do it, so you'd better make sure you write it down so you don't have to ask again.
I learned this the hard way. I was an undergrad lab tech during my second year of undergrad, and I neglected to take good notes. The lab time was a bit of a disaster. I know better now. That time taught me a lot about the gap between what I thought I knew and what I actually knew.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Find the smartest person there. It isn't hard. They are the one that helps everyone, that person that everyone goes to, the one that never has any time.
Mirror this person's hours, get a desk near theirs, do your darnedest to learn everything they know. When you know everything they know, find an even smarter person and do it again.
Help everyone one can. When everyone depends on you, you become invaluable, people will not be able to function without you.
If you truly are smart, not just a lazy person who likes to order others around, you will become the smartest person there. YOU will have the most people willing to help you on YOUR huge projects, you will have the most faculty and staff on your side (there are TONS of politics), YOU will advance faster than your peers.
Then when I start working there, I will situate my cube next to YOURS.
- I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
#1 - The first rule of Uni Lab is, you do not talk about Uni Lab.
#2 - The second rule of Uni Lab is, you DO NOT talk about Uni Lab.
#3 - If someone says stop, goes limp, taps out, the lab is over.
#4 - Two guys to a lab.
#5 - One lab at a time.
#6 - No striped shirts, no sandals.
#7 - Labs will go on as long as they have to.
#8 - If this is your first day at Uni Lab, you should bring knee pads and lip balm. (They call it "you kneel lab" for a reason.)
If something doesn't match your experience, ask why. The answer will teach you something, teach others something, and often both.
Here's the most important thing: Once you get your feet on the ground, you will start to be asked to do things. If you're asked "can you do X?", and you don't, then say so. However, the most important and best answer to questions like that is "I don't know, but I will find out." And then find out, and report back about it at the next meeting WITHOUT BEING ASKED.
Craig Steffen
http://www.craigsteffen.net
and at first it's a lot of scut work, doing the gross stuff with the animals (fruit flies!), but as you spend more time there you are given more responsibilities, and get to do more important (and interesting) things. My best advice to give you is to ask questions, lots of questions. Show an interest in the research that is being done, and offer to help anyone that needs it. Even if it's mindless stuff that they need help with, you're going to earn their respect, and you're most likely going to learn something (even if it's just "oh, don't do this, it takes more time than doing it another way"). There is somewhat of a heirarchy, yes, but everyone in my lab is pretty young (think 35), and though I am the youngest by at least 7 years, I find that everyone is very nice, and there aren't real "seniority" issues. It may be different in a university setting, I don't know, I'm at a med school. The first day will be mostly learning your way around the lab, and safety stuff, and other paperwork, but really do make an effort to learn as much as you can-- that's why you're there! Good luck!
I'm a fourth-year graduate student, and this book has been invaluable - I wish I had it doing undergraduate research! It starts with chapters on general orientation, "what to expect" kind of things, notebook-keeping and organization (and it's nothing like what you did for highschool labs), experimental design, presentations and communication, etc. Then, it dives into practical instructions for making buffers, sterile technique, cell culture (eukaryotic and bacterial), manipulation of DNA/RNA/protein, radiation, microscopy, etc. In all likelihood, the actual lab's expectations will be a little different, but if you've looked over this book you won't be caught flat-footed.
Beyond this particular book, I'll reiterate something that has been said above: your best resource (to start with) is the other people in the lab. You will spend an entire month badgering others with "where is" and "how do I" questions. Don't worry about it, that's just the way it works. One caveat, though: when someone takes the time to demonstrate a technique or the operation of a piece of equipment to you, do them the courtesy of taking copious notes so that you won't have to ask them again. This serves to back up your memory of the procedure, and it impresses upon the senior lab members that you are interested and appreciative of what they have to tell you.
I took an intro to C class to pad my hours one semester. I was one credit short of full time and needed a 1 credit class.
The TA was an idiot. He taught the class so far over everyone's head nobody had the first clue what to do. And it was an intro class. But, I knew though. I actually did know how to program in C already. I was taking the class as a gimmie.
I wound up teaching the class in the hallway. I'd show up a half an hour early and help these poor people this uber-leet jackass left hanging out to dry.
You sound like him.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Ok, I'll put my few cents in. Before I start let me say, Welcome to the club. The Job of scientists is truly one of the most fun and free jobs you can have. Don't expect to be payed well for the skill you will some day have. I can easily make 5X what I do as a scientist in business or management with my skill level. But I am never bored, thats a big plus. I choose my own hours (usually means 60 + per week) but I don't have to work mornings if I don't like it. I get to play with cool toys. Yes it silly but havening fun with $2,000,000 instruments is a geek thing, I like it. I get to write, publish and get the prestige that brings.
On to the question now. The first day will be a tour and paper work. You will be given a manual of procedures and safety controls. You will be asked to read it and sign it. Later you may take a test on it. You will also find out what certifications you may need, use of biological organism, radioisotopes etc... These will all have their own safety manual/course and you will take these tests and such over the next few weeks.
In an ideal situation shortly (maybe not the first day) you will be assigned a lab and or office space. It will be far too small and you may share with another junior lab jock. You will find you are at the bottom of the totem pole and will be probably assigned a project to work on. This will likely be small and not very important, its is to get you lab legs. This project will be a collaborative effort with someone. Maybe the professor himself if he is a in lab guy otherwise a medium to high lab guy. Your real job is to play well with others and to learn whatever you need to learn to work on that project. In time you will get into new projects and some you may even pick yourself. However, you will always be expected to be ready to update your skills yourself at any time, with a book, a protocol, a class or just ask questions. Be considerate and a team player. Even if the flavor of the lab is every man for himself. In the start we all need mentoring, if you need lots of help spread it out over all the lab mated you can take freely too. This way you don't take any one persons time too often. Be ready to work long hours, results is the key and it may take you 10X the time (due to repeats) a fully trained guy needs. Be ready to put that time in on demand.
One important thing is to find out the lab culture quickly, make no enemies and try to make friends. Lab culture can vary, to a lab of team based collaborators to a group of individuals all working on 1 single personal project. Know a collaborative lab by the papers they produce, lots of lab members names in the by line, collaborative. Only professor and one other guy. Individual work labs can be somewhat cutthroat where each lab member is out for his project to get all the time and $$. If the culture is somewhat cutthroat (and this happens) due to resource allocation limitations, be sure to know this early and be ready to protect your turf, when you have one.
At first you may have a project but it may never finish, its a learning thing. Only protect turf when its needed, as it can cause bad blood. Be sure to understand that at first you will be less skilled than many. So concentrate on getting confirmed skills, friends and respect. These are far more important that any small starter project.
You may feel small,and the boss may not seem to help with it. Just remember, a good professor wont let you fall if your project gets shot down as long as you have real skills (learned) and good interpersonal ability. You have to trust this, there is no other way. The lab director is a dictator, maybe benevolent, maybe not (this happens) but you can't top him/her ever. If you really think you have been marginalized badly (after a year or so, and it will take time to tell) maybe you need to move to a new lab.
Very often a professor will have favorites and you can't seem to get good breaks. However, your lab mates have about a 4 year life in
Ok, I'm just about to graduate undergrad (ack! in less than a month) and have been working in research labs since I was 15. I started out as basically bumblefuck the summer intern doing weird self-taught interface stuff... stayed in that lab all through high school (did lots of weird and cool stuff - this was MIT Media, so weird is an understatment). Since 2005, I've been an undergrad researcher (UROP) in a lab at BU's Med Campus... and I'll be an RA in a month and a half (at Vandy). So, basic wisdom, gleaned from years of being a lab denizen: 1. You have to sit training and you will be bored shitless. Sign the sheet, try not to fall asleep and drool on your shirt. 2. When you first come in, you are the lowest thing on the totem pole - you will get any/all scut work that anyone thinks you can handle. If you worked for me, that would mean you're doing the annoying electronics crap that I've long since gotten bored with. 3. People don't mind questions - they do mind when you don't learn. Basically, ignorance is curable (and we don't mind curing it), but willful stupidity is fatal. 4. Ask PIs and everyone else in the lab for reading material - what should you know that everyone else will assume that you do. Also, ask which mailing lists you should get on (everything is email these days, so it isn't as though this costs money). 5. If you break something, own up immediately (same thing goes if you relocate something) - if you go off and relocate a component of my testing arena or the subject records, your life will become interesting in ways which you will not enjoy. 6. Try to get along with people. If you need to bitch about something - fine, we're human too. After you're done, go and get it done [your work, that is]. If all you do is bitch, the lab will hate you. And talk about you years after the fact. 7. If, in a few years, you wind up writing papers, try to do it with people who are around regularly (trying to collaborate with your boss who fucks off to random places and is really bad about email on a good day is not fun [yes, i'm speaking from personal experience here]). Along this same vein, pull journal requirements early. 8. Email voice rarely corresponds to normal voice - certain people are much more offensive over lab email. Try not to take too much offence. 9. The non-research bureaucrats are a perpetual bane. Basically, try not to deal with them as much as you can (you'll be saner). However, make good friends with your lab admin (if you have one) - he/she has a crapload of power and can generally get stuff sorted out much more easily. 10. If you do human or animal work, DO NOT annoy your IRB or IACUC. The penalties, both immediate and long term for you and your lab are immense. Basically, treat them like the high priests of a cthonic deity - you really don't want to get eaten, do you? That's it for now
If it's a computer lab (_especially_ if it's a Computer Science lab), prepare to witness the following (it's true everywhere):
- someone will smell like horribly bad body odour. If you can't figure out who it is, it's probably you.
- there will be some overweight guy with acne pissing himself laughing at some moronic webcomic like xkcd or penny arcade (seriously, neither of them are funny).
- if there are girls in the room, they will be one of two types...the first type are the ones who -aren't- in computer science but need to use the lab anyway. They will generally stick to themselves, away from the scary nerd types talking about how to do moves in Jedi Academy.
- the other type will be the nerd girlfriend, the geek equivalent of a biker chick...just as fat and greasy but without the "road-hardened" appeal. Likely a clingy goth that's bursting out of some bad fishnet outfit, loudly and disgustingly making out with her pale boyfriend whist eating a sub sandwich.
- people leaving.
There, enjoy your first day in the computer lab!
Don't lie, don't bullshit, don't even think about bluffing your way through something.
You've just left high school. Everyone expects you to know nothing. So if you don't understand something, ask.
Then be useful. Get assigned some small project to do - it won't be very exciting, but it will be necessary. Writing documentation for some bit of homegrown software that never really got documented could be a good one. Do a good job. Talk to people, understand the system, produce a first pass document. Expect it to be crap. Show everybody, get corrections, and refine it to something useful.
If you demonstrate that you are useful and reliable, you'll get given more interesting things to do. Oh, and on the subject of reliability, show up. If your immediate supervisor expects you there at 8am, be there. If your immediate supervisor works early hours, there's no use thinking that you can show up after lunch and work late. You need on-call support. Show up for meetings and pay attention.
Yep there will be a lot of tea.
For bonus points, home made cakes went down very well in our lab.
Makes me thing of the old sign.....
WARNING:
The fridge in the lab is for really nasty things.
The fringe in the tea room is for really nice things.
Please maintain the distinction.
I worked in labs all through university. It was fun. Don't worry. No matter how much you prepare, it will be different than you expect. One of the labs was really cool.
There was a sign on the big excimer laser we had: "Don't look directly at laser with other remaining eye".
Probably the most important thing I learned was that if you use a home made voltage doubler to power up a Swedish laser printer, don't plug two in at once...
At the end of my year there I got a reference letter that said (in entirety): "To the best of my knowledge, he isn't an axe murderer".
Sigh... those were the days...
Lab work is not always glamorous. Correction: lab work is almost never glamorous. Generating real, publishable results is a long, slow, often boring process. Actually getting those results, though, can be immensely rewarding. As the parent post said, keep an open mind, do a good job at wh--Still trying to think of a clever sig...
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