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Parent-Friendly Wireless Bridge To Span 500 Meters?
GonnaBRichYeahYeah! writes "My dad lives down a dirt road 500 meters off the main road. The cable company will not put cable down his lane for any less than the ridiculous sum of $10,000.
And he cannot get phone line DSL since he is so far away from the central terminal, so he relied on painful 22k/sec dial-up for access to the Internet.
He got sick of it and relies on Hughes satellite Internet, at $60/month, but he still has to be connected to a phone line to upload to the Internet. It's not a good solution, but better than dial-up.
His friend lives on the corner of the main drag with his lane and has cable, thus hi-speed Internet.
I suggested that he get a wireless access point, and put it at his friend's house and then get a wireless card for access. The problem is that no wireless routers go that far (max range of -N is 200 feet) and WiMax is too complex for a 70-year old man. Any suggestions from Slashdot crowd would be helpful." Plenty of people make wireless links over longer distances, but often they're not suited for people who want simplicity and reliability. What's the best out there right now?
Supplies:
Hoe (one per helper)
500 meters of heavy duty conduit
500 meters of cable (recommend that you lay fiber at the same time)
Solution 1:
1a: Dig a long trench from the cable termination point down the dirt road to your father's house
1b: Dig a long trench from "the closest neighbour with cable internet" down the dirt road to your father's hose
Ensure that the trench is at least 18 inches deep, roughly 8 inches wide
2. Lay 500 meters of heavy duty conduit. Ensure that you are threading your cable through the conduit all the way along. Attempting to thread the cable AFTER the counduit has been completed may prove to be problematic.
3a: Call the cable company to connect the cable to the cable termination point. Begin paying monthly subscription to cable internet provider.
3b: If you've chosen to run the connection to your neighbhour's home, ensure that you don't piss him/her off. They are now your cable internet provider.
4. Profit $$$
Just get a proper directional antenna to replace the one on the router. Do the same for your neighbor and link'em together I got one when I was living back Prague and connected with a 200kb/s link to an access point about 300 meters away (that was the speed of the connection - not the actual link). Actually, it's quite common for people to construct neighborhood networks that way (well at least in CZ)
"WiMax is too complex for a 70-year old man." At what age does WiMax dementia set in?
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/22/318-wifi-network-bridge-connects-two-locations-up-to-5-miles-ap/
500 meters is about 1,640 feet. I do that to my parents place now. I just got two Linksys routers running dd-wrt and two good outdoor antennas. With dd-wrt I cranked up the radio output a bit and have no problem getting full throughput over about that same distance.
Check local legislation. Where I live, the government must provide electricity, water, and telephone service to any legal building built, no matter how far into the boondocks it is built. I don't know if the law specifically applies to high-speed internet access, but I'm fairly confident that a good lawyer could make it seem that way.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
I live near lax, but my building has really old wiring and i can't get dsl at this location, but i'm a mile from the office and once on the roof i found i had line of sight. I bought two wireless access points from ascendance, I bought the heavy ones cause i wanted to use the high performance radios so i can get 100mbit. (i work for an isp and i was able to just bring it right into my colo. But if you get http://www.ascendance.net/storefront/detail.aspx?ID=788 that should work two, you need two of them. Configuration isn't difficult, you set one as an AP and the other as a client, set your encryption and static /30 ip. and aim them at eachother. All done. On average with the standard radio you can get 20mbits up and down, and its solid enough to put voip calls over. The max range is just under 5 miles, that should cover you.
Hope that helps.
Linksys (I don't know about others) come with a standard antenna port. With a directional, high-gain antenna pointed at your dad's house from the neighbor's, you could probably make the connection. Worst case, you might need to get some custom firmware and turn up the transmission strength a tad. (I suggest Tomato.)
Look up "coffee can wifi antennas" on google. This will make it cheap and "easy."
Resistance is futile. Your technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. You will become one with the morgue
You can buy or build a cantenna. They're illegal. But with a bit of work and patience, they function well. I dunno if a simple can-based setup can handle half a kilometer (and if it can, it's going to need a good solid connection to the house to keep it aligned) but I do know that a cantenna operated at the focal point of a used satellite dish will work fine up into the several kilometer range.
They're really cheap to build. You generally need to find reverse-polarity RF connectors to hook to the card in the computer. Digikey.com, newark.com, and mouser.com all sell reverse-polarity rf connectors. Traditionally people put n-type rf connectors on the antenna but that's a pain: I built mine using a bnc bulkhead connector on the can, and a rp-sma-to-bnc converter connector on my wireless adapter card, and just ran bnc cable from one to the other.
Mine only runs 40 meters through a couple of walls. Hopefully other people will correct this if it's the wrong solution for 500 meters.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
Have you seen these? I think they would require LoS for maximum efficiency, but it's worth a peak. You could use two directional high gain antennas and point them at each other if LoS is nearly there... But bear in mind that nothing about their doc requires LoS, just that we all know it works better if there is.
http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=133
2^3 * 31 * 647
I suggest learning about antennas.
Wireless access point at each end, directional antennas, wifi goodness ensues.
I've done 1000 meters with simple patch antennas and wrt54g routers running dd-wrt to create a wireless ethernet extension. Only heavy rain will drop the connection.
Otherwise look up the laser types. there are hundreds of websites on how to do this simple and common task.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
There is an article at engadget about this sort of thing. It requires line-of-site, but I'm sure you could manage that.
Link to the Article
Hope this helps.
I'm just about to the point where I hate wireless, but for a non-commercial shot like this, mikrotik should work well. You could get into it for 300.00 - 600.00 for a couple of units configured as a wireless bridge.
I recommend using Ubiquity sR2 or SR5 mini-pci cards...and ground everything especially well.
Mikrotik boards run Linux and are extremely roboust and feature rich. But you can follow this wiki and have a transparent bridge running in no time flat:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks
We use mikrotik a lot in a wireless WISP situation. If someone thinks they are going to throw a bunch of this stuff hundreds of feet in the air and make a lot of money doing wireless Internet, they are in for a wild ride...that ends somewhere between hairloss and a straight jacket...but I do something almost exactly like what you are wanting to do with your father using Mikrotik, and it has worked very well and wasn't super expensive.
Again, ground everything as best you can, and use directional, not omni antennas (cheap omni antennas often have grounding issues than can pop the radio card really easy).
See also: wisp-router.com
Transporter_ii
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
I know these look pricey, but they're worth it (aka: save yourself the trouble of cheap indoor access points in a box). They have everything you need, all in a rugged outdoor enclosure. And yes, they run Linux.
SMC2891W-AG Wireless Outdoor Bridge
Data Sheet
Manual
-Karl
A rock record: http://www.instarmusic.com/
Uh... that's a little out of spec for Ethernet. Would need a repeater. Or two. Or five.
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
If you gave a little more info. If you have line of sight then its no problem at all just buy 2 routers that can be flashed to DD-WRT. (I suggest the Asus WL-500G Premium or the Linksys WRT54GL I own both and they both work like a charm just make sure you buy the right connector Asus: rp-SMC/linksys: rp-TNC)
After you figure that out go to http://www.hyperlinktech.com/familylist.aspx?id=146 or where ever you want to get an Antenna.
my guess is your going to want to grab the 24db one seeing as how the 30 jumps quite a bit in price. after that mount them both with line of sight connect everything up and you should be good to go. If you don't have line of sight then its going to depend on whats in the way if its possible at all.
There are companies out there who will do a professional job of installing fixed-wireless from point A to point B.
You may want to pay your neighbor for a utilities easement to either run a cable down his property or install point A for fixed-wireless on his property. Then, pay the cable company as normal for them to connect Point A to their hookup. You will also need to get electrical service. The up-front costs won't be cheap but it will be a lot less than $10K.
If there are several neighbors affected, you may want to form a co-op or contract with a company who will own the easement.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
All of the new Hugesnet installs have bi-directional to the satelight, so then you don't have to use the phone line. I think the up is 64kbps.
All of the Wifi sharing ideas are going to be against the TOS of the company that is being "shared"
Research satellite dish antennas or cantennas. Both are cheap directional antennas (buy someone's used satellite dish) and of course you will want direct line of sight between the two antennas.
When I first moved to my city, DSL and cable were not available. 6 years ago I started a job located about 4 miles away from my home, and they had a T1. Turns out my condo had radio line of sight to work. What I did was set up two Linux boxes on peer to peer wireless using Orinico cards since they had the jack for an external antenna. To those I hooked up the appropriate pigtails and LMR-400 microwave cable to the parabolic grid antennas on the roof of each location. After configuring Linux to handle the routing, bam I was the first guy in my city with broadband. Actually, I'm still running on it though cable and DSL is now available.
Now granted this was the old school way of doing it. The other problem was that I was using 75 feet of LMR-400 cable on each end to bring the signal from the antenna to my card. That's generally not a good idea since long runs of cable attenuate the signal, so it's always best to have your network equipment as close to the antenna as possible. But back then that type of stuff was hella expensive - Just between the grid antennas, the cards, the dongles, and the cables it came out to about $600. You don't even want to know what the network equipment would have cost, which is why I ran it on the cheap using Linux.
But now this stuff practically grows on trees. There are kits around that let you do long distance point-to-point hookups, but I don't know where to get them off the top of my head since I haven't researched it in awhile. You might want to start with Radio Labs to get an idea of the type of equipment that's out there. Bottom line is that if I can get a decent wifi signal from four miles away with a non-optimal configuration, you should be able to do 500m as long as you have line of sight. I think you should be able to get away with it for around $500 or less.
-R
If you have :-
:-)
1) Clear line of sight.
2) A soldering iron (and know how to use it *properly*)
3) Basic metalwork skills.
4) Spare time **LOTS**
http://ronja.twibright.com/
"Ronja is a free technology project for reliable optical data links with a current range of 1.4km and a communication speed of 10Mbps full duplex."
10 Megabit free space optical complete with designs & pcb layouts.
Can't get more DIY than this
Let A = cost of beers for able-bodied friends
B = cost of equipment (free because you already have it? Power tool rental?)
C = cost of submitting a request to the county
D = cost of cables, conduits, etc that gets buried.
If A + B + C + D $10,000 that the cable company is quoting, then it's a good deal. If it gets a permit and is all done to code there's nothing the cable company can sue about... especially since he'd just basically extended their infrastructure at no cost to them.
There's always inviting a cell tower to be built on your property. In such a case the cell companies would wind up buring some kind of infrastructure anyway to support it. When that happens, call again and all of a sudden, wouldn't you know it, you've got cabling all up to practically your doorstep.
More Twoson than Cupertino
maybe a verizon broadband access card? they sell it in usb format too... 5GB monthly cap is kinda small though so it might not suit your needs.
https://tranzeo.com/
For 500 meters, you can use the 802.11a or 802.11bg ( TR-5a series and TR-6000 series respectively ) without too many problems, as long as you have good line of sight. If there are a few trees, then the 900MHz stuff might be a better idea, but if there's a forest or a lot of buildings between your friend and your dad, you're boned. Just make sure that regardless of what kind of radio you get ( and regardless of what manufacturer you buy from ), use an antenna with as narrow beamwidth as you can get, ESPECIALLY for the 900MHz. For a point-to-point install, omni antennas are not your friend. Yagi or dish antennas might be a bitch to setup, but you'll have very little noise or interference.
Disclaimer: yes, I work for this company, but I really don't give two hoots if you use our stuff. Just make sure you get the right equipment ( ie: NO OMNI ANTENNAS ). I can't believe how many people think that omni antennas are a good idea ( especially for 900Mhz, ouch ).
God is dead -- Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead -- God
Zombie Nietzsche lives! -- Zombie Nietzsche
Get 2 Linksys WRT54GL rounters, one for each site, and replace an antenna on each with a Hawking [HAO14SDP] directional antenna, and align them to point at each other. Might be best to roof mount the antenna, but aligning them will be the hardest part. You might only need to buy one of the directionals and get an omni for the other antenna at the other site, and rely on the directional to make the connection. I own one of the directionals and it is in my "travel kit", i.e., whenever I go on the road, I have a laptop, a WRT54GL, and the 14dBi directional and do a quick scan around where-ever I am so I can get on the web for a quick fix if the hotel/friend/etc., doesn't have a network connection.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
The guy who serviced my house had what looked like a big pizza cutter on a stick. It buried the cable about two inches deep.
Conduit is neither required nor used for cable and phone in a residential setting. If you break it you patch it. This is simple and low cost.
Maybe a 300 year old cottage? Just asking...
Just run phone quality twisted pair (cat 3) if you have adjacent land or can get permission from any adjacent land owners. Just buy low cost VDSL Ethernet bridges, they can be obtained for less then $200. Also 2000 ft of cat 3 can be obtained for less then $200 (just bridge two 1000ft spools vdsl doesn't care).
Then go aerial, affix the cat 3 to a wire (for support) and put a 10 ft pole every 10 meters or so. Aerial is most likely the easiest to install, maintain, and upgrade. It also allows for the running of coax for a future cable tv install that will require additional amplification to reach your fathers house.
The nice thing about running cat 3 is vdsl has a nice upgrade path to 100 mbps and beyond.
When you're running conduit, it makes sense to run a string through it at the same time. That way you can pull another cable (and another string) through later if needed.
Cantenna (or use a pringles jar)
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=15229
-=Down Syndrome in Maine
It just means you live anywhere outside the Commonwealth. Most non-native English speakers use AmE on the internet. Don't assume that only native speakers read Slashdot.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
$318 WiFi network bridge (HD26200) connects two locations up to 5 miles apart http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1899&HS=1
What's a hoe?
Ho: "For $20 I'll do anything you want."
Dad: "Here's twenty bucks, lay 500 meters of conduit to my house, b****!"
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
I have a bunch of clients in a remote valley (self-generated hydro, radiophones/skype) who are sharing a satellite connection via 802.11b. The setup is simple enough, a vanilla buffalo router connected to a line amp and omni monopole antenna raised 35ft at the highest residence--and at one edge of the reception area. Great. Farthest client is about 2km away across the valley, reception with a small panel antenna OK; worst reception is under the antenna (no surprise) and down the hill towards the river. Nine households and low budget (so setting up 9 direct antenna links too costly).
My question: would tipping the angle of the antenna towards the reception area improve the take-off angle enough to make a difference? No-one has given me a straight answer on this.
Anyway, I was surprised at how well this !cheap! system works when they asked me to check it out. It just needs some minor reception adjustments.
Damn those pesky terrorists
We've done 5 mile links with a pair of *old* wallmount AT&T Wavelan bridges and proper antennas on 915 Mhz. Those units were 400mw.
Such antennas are cheap and small, too. Under $100 in singles at a number of companies with online ordering facilities.
A 24db skeleton-parabola can get you miles of range even without a high-gain antenna on the other end, and is about the size of a UHF TV antenna. (I know one guy who war-scans the business district of San Francisco with one - from his apartment deck in Berkeley. B-) ) With antennas on both ends you should be able to go with the little lozenge types.
To give you an idea of range: My Nevada house is about 5 miles from the cell tower where the local WiSP has its POP, with a directional antenna pointed generally my way. His customers normally use a lozenge antenna with built in AP mounted on an outside wall, and I'll probably do that when I sign up (because my computer room is on the far side of the house). But my picture window faces the tower and my laptop catches the ID beacon just fine sitting in my lap using the builtin antenna.
So for a half-mile putting an AP in each attic and even a low-gain external antenna on the roof or outside wall should do the job just fine.
Want a cheap do-it-yourself high-gain directional antenna? Get a big wok strainer (woks and their strainers are pretty good parabolas), put a USB-stick WiFI adapter on a USB extension cord, and mount it with its backside at the focus of the strainer. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Umm WildBlue is hardly a solution. 1200ms ping times...let me rephrase that 1.2 second ping times and low usage quotas (7.5GB/mo) make it a non-starter. Wireless to a neighbor's should be really easy with a pair or directional antennas- you could even throw a parabolic behind a rubber ducky and hit 300 meters at 11mbit- I've done it over 2km at 100mw tx power.
You might have a look at Engenius's outdoor APs. A pair of EOC-3220s should work well. Cheaper than most outdoor gear, supports POE, stable (at least mine has been rock solid, I have the external antenna version). And it support bridging natively!
Cheers,
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
In English I use "meter", not "metre", though I also use "colour" not "color". And I don't live in the US.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Or you can do it yourself for $318
make sure they know you want to 'lay some pipe'
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
What you need is RONJA, a free space optics link, with the technology being under your control (open source).
Wireless links with plain old 802.11 have been done over FAR longer distances (over 10km is common and I've seen links over 40km) with simple directional antennas. What's much more important than distance is line-of-sight. Basically if you can see the other antenna without a telescope, you can connect to it. However, there must NOT be any trees in between, even if you can see the other antenna in the gaps of the foliage. Trees are very good radio-wave shields. (Actually, water is the shield, but like all living things, trees are full of water.)
:j
If you do not have line of sight from the ground, try the roof. If you still don't your next option would be to build a mast. You can make a mast up to 10 or 12m cheaply by telescoping several pieces of steel pipe and bracing the whole thing with 3 steel cables. I have a 9m mast like this that I built for about $100.
Make sure to get a router with antennas that you can disconnect and replace (not all have those, but many do). Then connect a directional antenna... for 500m you don't need anything fancy, the cheapest directional antenna you can buy or a home-made "cantenna" will do just fine.
Same for the other end of the connection... if you don't want to put a router on both ends, make sure your wifi card has an antenna connector. Or you can use a USB wifi adapter with a "stub" antenna, and stick that little stub directly into a "cantenna" type can (you'll need to calculate the position of the hole for the antenna... there are calculators for this on the net, google "cantenna calculator"). That will turn a little $25 USB dongle into a directional Wifi powerhouse, using nothing but a can with hole drilled in the right place! I've gotten a strong connection over 1km between two of those and I'm sure it could have gone much further but we didn't try because 1km was enough.
For your short distance of 500m, given line of sight, you may even be able to get away with a directional antenna only on one end, and the regular omni antenna on the other. I.e. if you have window-to-window sight, you may be able to put an unmodified router on the windowsill of one house and a usb-dongle-cantenna on a windowsill of the other and have your link.
Good luck!
http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Here's the kind of boxes I'm talking about:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190224334652
I lived on a remote mountain and was 100% off-grid. I used Starband (www.starband.com). I had it for six years and it was flawless. Up speeds were not awesome, but better than dial up. The service was the most reliable I have ever had. Down speeds were great (1+ meg). I had the SOHO plan. I ran a souce control server on it and an Exchange server. Worked awesome. Again, VSAT is a little different and you soon get use to the diferences. No phone line required.
.02
Also, I head from a friend that Wild Blue (www.wildblue.com) is also very good. I am going to get VSAT again (I moved) as a backup because it was very reliable. I have an RV082 and I know it works with VSAT on one of the WAN ports.
This is probably going to be a more reliable mechanism than a long-haul wireless setup.
Just my
Jamey
Jamey Kirby
You can boost the range of your wifi router/card by using an external antenna. The simplest option for you would be to construct a couple of antennas out of cans. The whole thing will cost you a couple of bucks and will be more than enough to cover 500 meters (I used such antennas for 3-km long links, and it worked like a charm). Hit Google with 'cantenna' to get more info on the subjet. If you decide to go this way, make sure your wifi card and router are equipped with detachable antennas so that you can hook an external one.