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NASA Plans Probe to the Sun

FudRucker writes "For more than 400 years, astronomers have studied the sun from afar. Now NASA has decided to go there. 'We are going to visit a living, breathing star for the first time,' says program scientist Lika Guhathakurta of NASA Headquarters. 'This is an unexplored region of the solar system and the possibilities for discovery are off the charts.'"

54 of 352 comments (clear)

  1. Wait. I saw this... by baldass_newbie · · Score: 4, Funny

    Airplane 2.

    --
    The opposite of progress is congress
  2. Okay? by Drakin020 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And how exactly do you plan to do that? Do we have any material that won't melt under the intense heat?

    --
    The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    1. Re:Okay? by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's easy, we'll just go at night

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    2. Re:Okay? by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One could dissipate heat by having hundreds of monofilament wires to wick the heat away from such craft. Doing that should provide more time for the sensor array to gather and transmit more data.

      Of course, we could select Tom Cruise and other scientologists as crew.

      --
    3. Re:Okay? by Eudial · · Score: 5, Informative

      And how exactly do you plan to do that? Do we have any material that won't melt under the intense heat? It isn't that hot. The surface is merely 5800 K. We achieve and contain that sort of temperature on a regular basis here on earth.

      The problem isn't to contain such a temperature, but to do it in a way that is compatible with space travel (i.e. not involving heavy and brittle insulation.)
      --
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    4. Re:Okay? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, what we need is some sort of material that can reflect away the radiation, and also has a ridiculously high specific heat. Hmmm, what could we use to reflect electromagnetic radiation... hmmm, something reflective... what do have that's reflective? Anyone?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TPScube.jpg

      --
      I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
    5. Re:Okay? by CogDissident · · Score: 3, Insightful

      wick the heat "where"? The area around the sun is "all" over several thousand degrees, the size of those wires would have to be measured in hundreds of miles.

    6. Re:Okay? by Zymergy · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. Not Really.
      And certainly not at the temperature of the Sun's corona (which probes will most likely have to travel through to get to the inner 'cooler' layers..)
      This is where we need 'shielding' technology similar to Star Trek, or to jump physical dimensions directly into the desired location with technology similar to Event Horizon, etc..

      "The coolest layer of the Sun is a temperature minimum region about 500 km above the photosphere, with a temperature of about 4,000 K." ... "Above the temperature minimum layer is a thin layer about 2,000 km thick, dominated by a spectrum of emission and absorption lines. It is called the chromosphere..." ... "Above the chromosphere is a transition region in which the temperature rises rapidly from around 100,000 K to coronal temperatures closer to one million K." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun

      "The chemical element with the highest melting point is tungsten, at 3695 K (3422 C, 6192 F) making it excellent for use as filaments in light bulbs. The often-cited carbon does not melt at ambient pressure but sublimates at about 4000 K; a liquid phase only exists above pressures of 10 MPa and estimated 4300-4700 K. Tantalum hafnium carbide (Ta4HfC5) is a refractory compound with a very high melting point of 4488 K (4215 C, 7619 F)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_point
      Even diamonds are not tough enough... Above 1700 C (1973 K / 3583 F) diamonds are converted into graphite.

    7. Re:Okay? by e2d2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes the surface is only around 5800K, hot enough to melt any known material. But the corona surrounding the surface is over 10^6K. I'm curious how they intend to handle such intense energy. Not just heat energy, but insane amounts of radiation across the spectrum. This will be quite interesting from an engineering standpoint.

    8. Re:Okay? by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 5, Informative

      Since the corona isn't dense enough for the heat to be a problem, all they have to worry about is the radiation. Since that's all coming from the same direction, they can just hide behind something (the thing labeled "thermal shield" in the picture).

    9. Re:Okay? by Firehed · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even diamonds are not tough enough... Above 1700 C (1973 K / 3583 F) diamonds are converted into graphite.

      I guess I need to buy a pack of pencils and throw them in the freezer. I'll be rich overnight!
      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    10. Re:Okay? by suggsjc · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ugh, I barely like corona when it is ice cold...that has got to taste awful.

      But I guess if they can figure out how to bottle it and get it back to earth, then I guess that will change the whole "free as in beer" saying.

      --
      When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
    11. Re:Okay? by ahecht · · Score: 5, Informative

      But they're not entering the corona. From TFA:

      At closest approach, Solar Probe+ will be 7 million km or 9 solar radii from the sun. There, the spacecraft's carbon-composite heat shield must withstand temperatures greater than 1400o C and survive blasts of radiation at levels not experienced by any previous spacecraft.
      I'm not saying 1400 degrees isn't hot, but it's not unmanagable.
    12. Re:Okay? by treeves · · Score: 3, Informative

      This should not be modded informative. Please. A nuclear reactor (I assume you mean fission not fusion since that is the usual meaning of reactor) core does not get hot enough to melt the fuel - if it did, you must mean Chernobyl so you should have been more specific. The surface of the Sun is at a much higher temperature than the melting point of any material.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    13. Re:Okay? by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I should hope that the solar probe has magnetic shielding, just to get a high stress test of tech. Magnetic shielding would be advantageous. Especially since the majority of the particles coming from the sun appear to be charged. However, the objectives of the mission state that it intends to study magnetic fields and the charged particles from the sun. These objectives would be difficult to meet with magnetic shielding.

      Plus, it wasn't mentioned in TFA.
      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    14. Re:Okay? by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not to inject off-topic facts into this discussion, (ok, I can't resist it) but Corona is one of the worst beers ever.

      You see, there are three major things (aside from frat boys) which ruin beer: heat, (not too hard to work around) oxygen, and light.

      Corona is in a clear bottle in a low six-pack, with a twist-top. The twist-top is far worse at sealing out oxygen, the low cardboard lets in more light, and the clear bottle lets in even more.

      How do you fix these problems? Jack it full of preservatives, and then market the culture of the beer to revolve around adding some citric acid to hide that shitty taste. Compare Corona against a well crafted, all natural ale, and most people can taste the shite in it. For instance, try really seriously comparing Corona against a good Belgian white ale. The taste difference is amazing.

      God I've turned into a beer snob. Hand-crafted Belgian ales ftw.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  3. Can we by Diss+Champ · · Score: 5, Funny

    select a few of our favorite people as crew for that mission?

    1. Re:Can we by pak9rabid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      select a few of our favorite people as crew for that mission? I have just the people
    2. Re:Can we by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      This would be a good time for all of the ensigns wearing red uniforms to hide.

  4. Solar Power by Drakin020 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I guess providing power to the device via solar power would be a good option.

    After all...It will be right next to the source.

    --
    The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    1. Re:Solar Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Won't work, since (as many posts point out) they'll have to send it at night...

  5. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  6. replete... by rodney+dill · · Score: 5, Funny

    Solar Probe+'s repeated plunges into the corona will be accomplished by means of Venus flybys.

    ...with sexual connotations.
    --

    Use your head, can't you, use your head,
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    - S. Beckett
  7. Pack the sun cream.. by slashmojo · · Score: 4, Funny

    SPF Eleventy Million

  8. Think, then open mouth by orclevegam · · Score: 5, Funny

    'We are going to visit a living, breathing star for the first time,' As opposed to all those dead stars we've been visiting recently.
    --
    Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    1. Re:Think, then open mouth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well the Earth IS "dead" stardust, and so are you!

  9. Oblig. by Khyber · · Score: 4, Funny

    "That's hot!"

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  10. Bad project name by Chemisor · · Score: 5, Funny

    With NASA's record, they ought to have named this project "Icarus", 'cause that's what will happen to it.

    1. Re:Bad project name by CheeseTroll · · Score: 3

      Naming it 'Daedalus' would be more optimistic, don't you think?

      Either way, hopefully they won't build the heat shield out of wax!

      --
      A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
    2. Re:Bad project name by flosofl · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course, originally, Icarus was the name of a certain Greek god...
      No, Icarus was not a god. He was the son of Daedalus. Daedalus was an artificer (engineer) who designed the maze in which the Minotaur was imprisoned. Basically a prisoner of the king of Minos, he fashioned two sets of wooden frames to which he attached feathers with beeswax for himself and his son to escape. Daedalus escaped, but despite multiple warnings, Icarus flew too close to Apollo's chariot (the sun), melted the wax and plunged to his death.
      --
      "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
  11. Predicted probe results: by snarfies · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) The sun is a mass of incandescent gas
    2) A gigantic nuclear furnace, where hydrogen is built into helium at a temperature of millions of degrees.
    3) The sun is hot - the sun it not a place where we can live, but here on Earth there'd be no life without the light it gives.

  12. "Bend over..." by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Funny

    "This won't hurt you as much as it hurts me!"

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  13. Typical Government waste by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Funny

    The scientists and astrophysicists themselves agree that the Sun is going to become a Red Giant and it will expand past the orbit of Jupiter. Instead of just setting up the instruments and wait for the Sun to come to us, these typical, arrogant, pie-in-the-sky, ivory tower, disconnected elites are coming up with yet another proposal to tax and spend out tax dollars. Enough!. Just wait. What is 5 billion years to a government program? I ask.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Typical Government waste by rworne · · Score: 5, Funny

      What is 5 billion years to a government program? I ask.

      Ahead of schedule?
      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  14. Re:isn't the corona really hot? by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 3, Informative

    I know the surface is like 6000C or so, but I thought the corona was in the millions of degrees. I don't see how they'd get anything close enough to it before the corona vapourised it.

    If you go here

    [snip]

    So wouldn't that tend to prevent anything man made from getting near the sun, much less its "surface" / chromosphere?

    RS

    From your own link: Though the corona's temperature is high it's molecules are so far apart that the gases release little heat. If a person were to stand on the sun's corona they wouldn't burn, they would freeze in the near vacuum of the corona.

  15. Re:isn't the corona really hot? by frogzilla · · Score: 3, Informative

    The particles have a high temperature (are moving quickly) but the particle density is low. Therefore the heat will be small. Heat is the flow of energy from a hotter body to a cooler body.

  16. There's a better way! by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pffft. Everyone knows you should use metaphasic shielding.

  17. It's not the heat, it's the humidity. by Bearpaw · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seriously, though, it's not quite that simple. "The area around the sun" is very hot, but it's not very dense. IANAThermalEngineer, but I imagine they have one or two at NASA, and I'm guessing that they can come up with some kind of effective radiative cooling system. (Though perhaps they'll just rely on a Thermal Protective System (aka "heat shield"), like they did for the original Solar Probe.)

  18. Don't worry NASA is not stupid. by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Funny

    NASA knows the probe will burn up in the sun, so that's why they plan to land it at night.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Don't worry NASA is not stupid. by street+struttin' · · Score: 3, Funny

      A quick impression of the first man to ever land on the sun: "Ow, ow! Shit, FUCK! It's HOT!"

    2. Re:Don't worry NASA is not stupid. by Monkey+Angst · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh for fuck's sake... for some reason, this thread has brought out some of the most malfunctioning humor sensors Slashdot has to offer. It always happens during a full sun.

      --
      stripShow - Where WordPress meets webcomics
  19. Results by sgilti · · Score: 4, Funny

    "I'm sorry NASA, but the Princess is in another solar system."

  20. Re:there's no night on the sun by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Funny

    so that's why they plan to land it at night.

    Day and night is caused by the rotation of the Earth.

    rotation, shmotation. As anyone who's ever looked at the sun knows. the sun is roughly the size of a 50 cent piece and at night it comes to rest somewhere out west, probably arizona. Or so Calvin's dad told me

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  21. Re:isn't the corona really hot? by swimsaturn · · Score: 3, Informative

    Though the corona's temperature is high it's molecules are so far apart that the gases release little heat. If a person were to stand on the sun's corona they wouldn't burn, they would freeze in the near vacuum of the corona.
    Oh, they'd burn alright - but it would be a really bad tan. The side facing the Sun would absorb insane amounts of radiation; the side facing away would freeze... A good example (though far away from the corona): the extreme surface temperatures of Mercury, depending on the amount of sunlight, range from around 100 K to over 700 K.

  22. What about Uranus? by DnemoniX · · Score: 3, Funny

    You can't have a good story about probing without mention of Uranus...

  23. Great Presidential Speeches by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 4, Funny

    I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal of landing a man on the Sun and returning him back safely to the earth.
    George W. Bush, June 2008
  24. That doesn't really answer the question by p3d0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The mission is 7 years long. In that time, wouldn't the heat shield reach thermal equilibrium, and become extremely hot itself, if not melt?

    Maybe they're just not going as close as we all think.

    --
    Patrick Doyle
    I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
    1. Re:That doesn't really answer the question by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 4, Informative

      The mission is 7 years long. In that time, wouldn't the heat shield reach thermal equilibrium, and become extremely hot itself, if not melt? Sure. At a distance of 9 solar radii (closest approach, per article) the sun covers (area of circle) / (surface of sphere 9x as big) = 1/(4*9^2) of the sky. For radiative equilibrium, the relative temperature will be the fourth root of that, or about .236 of the temperature of the sun (6000 C). That comes to 1416 C, which is remarkably close to the 1400 C the article says the heat shield will have to withstand.
  25. Re:Living and breathing? by eln · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apparently a NASA spacecraft soon.

  26. Re:there's no night on the sun by Gilmoure · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't feel myself rotating.

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates
  27. Re:isn't the corona really hot? by amliebsch · · Score: 3, Funny

    And it radiates via what medium?

    Luminiferous aether, of course. Ask a silly question...

    --
    If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  28. Re:there's no night on the sun by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    I can see that this topic is going to spark some heated debate.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  29. Re:there's no night on the sun by Kagura · · Score: 5, Funny

    Stolen from a webpage (http://chrisdamato.blogspot.com/2007/03/ask-calvins-dad.html) from someone who stole them from someone who stole them from Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson.

    Illustrating the value of a good explanation in science education!

    Calvin: Why does the sun set?
    Dad: It's because hot air rises. The sun's hot in the middle of the day, so it rises high in the sky. In the evening then, it cools down and sets.
    Calvin: Why does it go from east to west?
    Dad: Solar wind.

    Calvin: Why does the sky turn red as the sun sets?
    Dad: That's all the oxygen in the atmosphere catching fire.
    Calvin: Where does the sun go when it sets?
    Dad: The sun sets in the west. In Arizona actually, near Flagstaff. That's why the rocks there are so red.
    Calvin: Don't the people get burned up?
    Dad: No, the sun goes out as it sets. That's why it's dark at night.
    Calvin: Doesn't the sun crush the whole state as it lands?
    Dad: Ha ha, of course not. Hold a quarter up. See, the sun's just about the same size.
    Calvin: I thought I read that the sun was really big.
    Dad: You can't believe everything you read, I'm afraid.

    Calvin: How come old photographs are always black and white? Didn't they have color film back then?
    Dad: Sure they did. In fact, those old photographs are in color. It's just that the world was black and white then. The world didn't turn color until sometime in the 1930s, and it was pretty grainy color for a while, too.
    Calvin: But then why are old paintings in color?! If the world was black and white, wouldn't artists have painted it that way?
    Dad: Not necessarily. A lot of great artists were insane.
    Calvin: But... But how could they have painted in color anyway? Wouldn't their paints have been shades of gray back then?
    Dad: Of course, but they turned colors like everything else did in the '30s.
    Calvin: So why didn't old black and white photos turn color too?
    Dad: Because they were color pictures of black and white, remember?

    Calvin: Dad, will you explain the theory of relativity to me? I don't understand why time goes slower at great speed.
    Dad: It's because you keep changing time zones. See, if you fly to California, you gain three hours on a five-hour flight, right? So if you go at the speed of light, you gain more time, because it doesn't take as long to get there. Of course, the theory of relativity only works if you're going west.

    Calvin: Why do my eyes shut when I sneeze?
    Dad: If your lids weren't closed, the force of the explosion would blow your eyeballs out and stretch the optic nerve, so your eyes would flop around and you'd have to point them with your hands to see anything.

    Calvin: How do bank machines work?
    Dad: Well, let's say you want 25 dollars. You punch in the amount and behind the machine there's a guy with a printing press who makes the money and sticks it out this slot.
    Calvin: Sort of like the guy who lives up in our garage and opens the door?
    Dad: Exactly.

    Calvin: What causes the wind?
    Dad: Trees sneezing.

    Calvin: Why does ice float?
    Dad: Because it's cold. Ice wants to get warm, so it goes to the top of liquids to be nearer to the sun.
    Calvin: Is that true?
    Dad: Look it up and find out.
    Calvin: I should just look up stuff in the first place.

    Calvin: How come you know so much?
    Dad: It's all in the book you get when you become a father.

  30. Last transmission from the probe ... by I+don't+want+to+spen · · Score: 3, Funny

    My God, It's full of star

    --
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