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No XP Reprieve; Windows 7 Release Set
CWmike writes "Microsoft has laid to rest rumors that it might reconsider pulling Windows XP from retail shelves and from most PC makers next Monday. Microsoft's Bill Veghte wrote to customers reiterating that June 30 would be the deadline when Microsoft halts shipments of boxed copies to retailers and stops licensing the operating system directly to OEMs. However, Veghte did leave the door open to all computer makers, even the largest, who want to continue selling new PCs with XP pre-installed. 'Additionally, Systems Builders (sometimes referred to as "local OEMs"), may continue to purchase Windows XP through Authorized Distributors [such as Ingram Micro] through January 31, 2009,' he wrote in the letter. 'All OEMs, including major OEMs, have this option,' said Veghte. At the same time, Microsoft confirmed Windows 7 would ship in January 2010. Who, if they have not already, would install Vista now?" Microsoft has said they will post the letter, but it's not up yet.
Yeah right.
"Who, if they have not already, would install Vista now?"
I heard Mac OS X 10.6 is supposed to come out next year. Who, if they have not already, would install 10.5 now?
the release date they announce in June of 2010 will probably be a more accurate one.
More music, fewer hits
I actually like Vista.
I make websites and stuff. Buy one.
Typical, clueless geek-centric comment. We geeks install a new OS every other month, but almost everybody else just uses whatever came with their system. When they begin to feel out of date, they don't upgrade the OS, they get a whole new system.
So nobody's outside geekworld is saying "Should I install Vista". If they think about OS issues at all, they're thinking, "Hey, I hear Vista really sucks. Maybe I should get an XP system while I still can."
I don't remember the exact version but I think it was Netware 3 that was solid as a rock. Then the next version was total crap upon release use users didn't upgrade. Even the following update were flaky so users stayed on the old version. The Novell was in getting into deep sneakers without upgrade revenue coming in. They finally started getting the problems worked out, but users were content with the old version and still had little interest in new version. After another major upgrade users started updating slowly.
MS seems to be in the same situation the got XP patched up to be a solid Windows OS and what problems there are are well known so not a big deal. Vista price and stability isn't a attractive enough move the masses. MS has far deeper pockets than Novell so it hurts, but isn't lethal.
Personally I wish MS would grow a pair like Apple has over the years and build a new OS from scratch and not worry about backward compatibility. Apple has done it what three times since the beginning. They give developers and users a couple years of warning and move forward. MS talks about it but never does it, they definitely have the deep pockets to do it.
This is FANTASTIC news for operating systems competing with Windows.
The choices to a complete new users have just improved from an open source point of view:
a) Install Windows Vista. High system specs, buggy to use, even harder to fix, has stupid problems. Also very pricey.
b) Install Linux Distro. Low system specs, buggy to use, some things can be very difficult to fix, has techie aura surrounding it. Did someone say its free?
Gone is good old option c - just install XP which is pretty stable, just about everything works with it and anyone can fix it.
Rejoice opensource!
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
Microsoft just threw to resellers and OEM's. It forces what little cash a reseller has *now* to all flow to Microsoft for product used for the next six months including Christmas.
Last purchase of XP: June 30.
Can distribute XP: January 2009
1. Basically, any cash-strapped reseller stands a much greater chance of being run out of business.
2. It will certainly shift the cost of financing the license pre-buy onto consumers in the form of higher product prices.
Wow.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
When does SP1 appear? That's the date that matters. You figure 2011 and it starts to seem like a decade with XP.
Ubuntu downloads strike a new high water mark.
I am wrestling with a Toshiba A215 that came with Vista Home Premium. It reliably pukes five minutes after waking up from suspend, and requires a hard boot to recover. I tried to run Ubuntu, but it won't recognize the wireless, even after the Mad wifi drivers were installed.
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
I'll probably get a new computer with Vista. I'm just not a Mac person, Linux doesn't support some software and peripherals I need, and my old desktop is, well, 5 years old at the end of July. I'm cheap but not that cheap.
That doesn't mean I won't install Linux on my old computer and use my old copy of XP on the new one, of course. I'm a real sucker for shiny, transparent, blurry things though. The problem with Mac stuff is that it looks too much like plastic, or fondant, whereas Vista looks more like fogged glass or acrylic. Mac's ferocious pointer-attacking icons worry me. Neither is sparkly enough, frankly.
I really like that program that comes with Macs though. What's it called? "Pages." I want that. I think I'll go for a bike ride.
I wish XP would be around for longer. Vista sucks donkey balls. I bought a Dell XPS M1530. It has some awesome specs, 4G RAM, beautiful display, wonderful keyboard... But Vista sucks. Even with the service pack it has bizarre problems. It freezes for 30 to 40 seconds every so often (the mouse won't even move), every day it goes into this weird mode where the hard drive thrashes for hours, it doesn't go to sleep properly when I close the lid, it blue-screened when I plugged in my AT&T USB Sigmatel 881 card, it keeps on bouncing between access points, etc., etc... XP works great on the machine however. I want to buy another laptop like it soon, but not with Vista. I hope this is still an option..
I actually totally agree. I have used every version of Windows from 2.0 to Vista (I have a fairly beastly tower running Home Premium and use Enterprise under Bootcamp on my Macbook Pro), and I find it to be totally stable, full featured and more problem-free than any of the previous iterations of Windows, including XP.
I am NOT a MS fanboy. The best desktop OS I have used is Leopard. I have a pile of linux boxes of various flavors whirring away in my closet. I worked for ages in X Windows on Solaris and AIX. I really, really liked KDE 3.x, though I haven't used it in a long while. Not a fan of Gnome for the same reasons people whine about Vista (bloat, bugs, UI complaints).
But I still fail to understand the reasoning of all the Vista hate. The one major negative I will give it is that it does have burly system requirements. But modern systems all ship with more than enough horsepower to deal with it fine.
If you want to pick on a current-gen Microsoft OS, I suggest you take a hard look at Windows Mobile. Garbage, even in its most current iteration.
By reducing the ability of its own customers to choose their operating environment, Microsoft drives them toward Linux and Apple.
I was just musing ... Microsoft have now effectively dictated that you can't run XP on a new computer (ignore the matter of "downgrade" rights for the time being). I guess they won't allow a customer to get a new license for XP for an existing computer (say they wanted to switch away from Linux and don't have any current Windows license). So they're effectively saying that if you want to run Windows, you have to run Vista. It's really a matter of denying choice, given how different XP and Vista are. How long can it be until Microsoft says that you're not allowed to _continue_ to run XP?
Looking at the parallels with Linux ... who would want to run a Linux distro from 2001? (That's how old XP is). Answer is nobody, unless your hardware is so old that you can't run anything newer. No linux folks will support a distro dated 2001. Isn't this a forced upgrade? I don't think so, because with linux, upgrading is a continuous process ... when you upgrade from 2001 versions of software through to 2008 what you are getting is basically the same thing, just better. Your kernel gets faster (and bigger), your devices work better, your window manager gains more features (and sometimes changes entirely, but you can choose your window manager). So, barring old/slow/small hardware, there's no reason not to upgrade linux.
Contrast with Windows - upgrade is a discontinuous process. You have to pay them for the later version, of course. And a lot of things change (for Microsoft's reasons), and you don't really get to choose much.
Property is theft.
What the hell is Windows 7, and other than a new desktop theme, why would I ever want it? Same viruses, same stupid Windowsisms, same IE-is-secretly-your-WM-and-vice-versa crap. What compelling features will it have ?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I recognize Vista was a turd, but can you folks even bother educating yourself about what 7 is supposed to be before bashing it? Right now this is being advertised as performance and security increases, not "a new desktop theme," as people keep saying it. The leaked internal build shows a 40-50% memory usage decrease since Vista. In my book, that's a good thing, even as a Linux user.
when it comes time to upgrade, i will be looking towards the lixux distros again. i would have done it by now but my copy of xp is legit and vista isn't worth the bandwidth.
My dad went to OSX and I have migrated to Ubuntu. My employer has finaly officialy stated they are skipping Vista and will wait for the next version. My new dual core machine isn't bothering with dual boot like the old PIII machine. It's all Linux.
The truth shall set you free!
Hi there! My name is Microsoft shill #59329. I'm here to tell you about the exciting new features in Windows 7, and to assure you all that it will be delivered on-time!
Now, we at Microsoft, are aware that whilst people love Windows Vista, some are having trouble with a few of the more advanced features, and the number of resources required to support them. So allow me to show you, dear Slashdot reader, the two major features in Windows 7 that will make it your best upgrade yet!
We'll certainly be on-time, because we're not actually going to change anything. Didn't see that one coming did you Free software zealots? I prostrate myself at the feet of chairman Ballmer, worshipping his tactical genius. You should too (if you know what's good for you)!
Overall, we're confident you'll find Windows 7 to be the Best OS EVAR, and even if you don't: we've kidnapped Linus and Stallman and have them secure in our secret, underground base.
...decide among four choices:
>1. Take a shrinkwrapped XP copy off the shelf and upgrade to that
This is why I own 3 copies of XP: Laptop, Main Desktop, Secondary Desktop
I will NOT run Vista - ever! I have tried, and have had far too many problems, even since SP1.
My new laptop came with Vista, and after problems with networking, printing, sound and video, I went back to XP. It's been running smoothly ever since.
>2. Switch to ReactOS
Not realistic. WINE is more useable, and even that refuses to run too much software.
>3. "Upgrade" to Windows 7
I am hoping that this will be an OK OS, but I don't believe that it will be.
From what I have heard, it is based on the same OS architecture as Vista, and so has the same fundamental design problems that are causing user problems in Vista.
>4. Stick with Windows 2000, hoping that a third party keeps up with security patches
Again, not realistic. It didn't happen for Win98, I don't expect it to happen for Win2K.
More like the Summer Olympics in Chicago/Madrid/Tokyo/Rio de Janiero.
I fully believe that Microsoft management asked the engineers when 7 would be ready, they replied "January 2009" and the managers said "January 2010 it is." I find it highly unlikely that it will be significantly delayed again. No matter how much you want to believe it, Microsoft is simply not retarded.
Windows 7 won't suck. It won't be great either. It'll be pretty decent, probably above average. People will use it and say, "Hey this is better than Vista, and it's sorta fast too." Linux users will keep saying that Linux is better and hipsters will keep saying that OS X is better. Status quo antebellum; this is unlikely to change in the near future. Microsoft's market share will probably dip once Linux hits its stride, but there is definitely a wall for OS X adoption (closed-down software that only runs on high-priced hardware from one manufacturer? It must appeal to the masses).
I've tried to be less extreme in predictions than I usually am. It's just that you get a few people saying that Windows will dominate again, a few people saying that Linux will rise up and defeat them, and then another few saying that OS X will take over. All are equally laughable scenarios.
One of my guys went to a workshop last month run by VMware, looking at some of their new technologies. We (1000 desktops) were at the small end of the attendees: the rest of the people there were mostly from large corporates. The guy in charge wanted a quick straw poll on some issues, one of which was ``are you doing or planning to do Vista?''. Seventy attendees. One hand. A common reason for home upgrades is ``that's what I'm using at work / school / etc.''. As Vista has no traction in those markets, it's losing at home as well. ian
Sorry guys, us mortals dont know how to run scripts and compile our own builds.
I've see this kind of comment more and more on Slashdot over the last few years. When did the average Slash user stop being able to do geeky stuff on his/her computer?
Why would you read Slashdot unless you were a hardcore geek?
Put identity in the browser.
> If Linus is not released within 48 hours on the other hand,
> I will be forced to free Reiser in a crazed attempt
Considering that Linus's wife is a six-time Finnish Karate champion, it would probably be a better movie if she and Reiser have to cooperate in this desperate (but ultimately successful, of course) attempt to free Linus. Reiser would have to wave his "I AM McGyver" card around a lot in order to equalize the power of the main characters, and get killed off dramatically (but redeemingly) at the end after he tries to pull a partial double cross in order to force Linus to add support to the 2.7 kernel tree for the new Reiser5 filesystem (note to scriptwriters: find a nice simple analogy for this for the non-geek viewers).
...for sufficiently large values of '2010,' which, as used by MS, is a variable name.
I nominate Vista to use a turtle mascot. It makes sense considering it's performance.
-- Will program for bandwidth
I'm actually pretty interested in Windows 7. It looks like there's a big shift in focus in it's design, concentrating more on performance than glitz which is the opposite to vista. The 25mb customisable lightweight version looks designed to eat into Linux's increasing market share in low powered budget systems.
It's easy to forget that MS followed up Windows ME, possibly their worst ever OS with XP, their best ever OS. At least Vista doesn't BSOD unless you've major hardware/driver issues.
OK. I'm really worked up now. The statement above is so anti-geek I don't even know how to deal with it.
For example:
Car geeks build them from parts in their garage on the weekend.
Audio geeks spend years building their audio set-up.
Electronics geeks build robots in their spare time.
Computer geeks write scripts, compile stuff, delve into the lowest parts of the computer, and just generally do stuff that "humans" don't do.
Geeks aren't "human" (in the sense of the average human being talked about). That's why they're called geeks, shunned, and have a reputation for not getting laid. I embrace my geekiness. I come to Slashdot to be with fellow geeks.
Is Slashdot now a site for mere "enthusiasts?" Instead of "Guy installs Linux on calculator watch" articles, are we going to start seeing "How to use your calculator watch the way it was meant to be used" articles?
Put identity in the browser.
I think one of the things that geeks do best, is follow their obsessions, whatever they are, and no matter what others think about it.
/. for the areas where I'm a happy enthusiast; physics, robotics, space exploration, law...
I'm unhappy with anyone trying to tell me what defines a once hurtful, and since reclaimed label, and I can't agree with the elitism proffered, I'm a fairly hardcore computer graphics geek, but I come to
Enthusiasm is in short supply, and should be encouraged, and I think that Wicko had it right. While in the smaller picture, there is a great deal of fiddling, delving and experimentation ( see romance ) the larger urge is to make something better, often meaning 'to have things done for us with as little effort as possible.'
What are you writing these excellent 'geek' scripts to do ?
IMHO, and with my brand of geek, I like to explore the intricacies of doing math at the graphics card, with the expectation of an emotional response from the human viewing the output, and I have no knowledge, or desire to compile and build my own OS.
Please look at what you're contributing to the site, I'd rather read honest, infectious enthusiasm than another random person getting angry because someone dares to affront their ego.
Why would you read Slashdot unless you were a hardcore geek?
Well, I'm probably not what you'd call a hardcore geek. I'm a professional programmer, but I mainly do Java for a web agency.
On the other hand, I have compiled from source the Linux kernel, gcc and associated libraries, upgraded from libc5 to glibc2 by hand, hand-hacked modeline entries in an XF86Config file because my monitor wasn't correctly recognised, to name but a few of the things I've done over the years in the name of tweaking my machine.
But you know what? I really can't be bothered any more. I want my machine to just work. I don't mind tweaking the odd thing here and there, but my days of compiling large chunks of the OS from source are well and truly over. I simply don't have time for that crap any more.
So while I'm perfectly capable of doing geeky stuff on my computer, it has long since lost its appeal. I have more important things to do.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
A Chinese company called Addintools has a little utility that will put the menus back and make Office 2007 usable again. http://www.addintools.com/
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Vista works well. Really?
/. hates Vista. It's not because we hate MSFT (we do) but it's because we see a product that lacks certain "features" that have been standard since forever. Vista truly is a step backwards, not forwards. How many issues have to be documented before you call a spade a spade?
All of the I/O functions work properly? Copying files, renaming folders, etc. All that works perfectly?
If you say yes, you lie. We already know of documented issues with file operations. It is pretty much proven that the I/O performance of Vista is substandard compared with even XP, much less Linux or some *nix flavor. We may not know why that is the case but we can definitely see it in the benchmarks. No doubt about that.
I may be out of line here but any OS that doesn't work with files/folders "perfectly" is a lemon in my mind. That might have been acceptable back in '88 but not in 2008. It's like asking whether your car comes with tires included. Of course it does! ALL cars come with the tires on the car. If one doesn't, it should stand out like a sore thumb. That is called a minimum requirement. And Vista doesn't meet the minimum requirement for the file system.
Pretending the issue isn't there doesn't make it go away. I challenge you to find a single (non-MSFT) study that shows file system performance on Vista meets what IT nerds expect in 2008. I think, if you do the research, you will find lots of evidence to the contrary.
THIS is why
I like this part of his announcement.
"As a result, our approach with Windows 7 is to build off the same core architecture as Windows Vista so the investments you and our partners have made in Windows Vista will continue to pay off with Windows 7. Our goal is to ensure the migration process from Windows Vista to Windows 7 is straightforward."
In other words they are going to finish Vista.
You're joking, right? I watched a friend tuning a 4-barrel carb a little while ago, and I guarantee you've never seen an overclocker hover over their water cooling system more than my friend was glued to the valves on that thing.
Did you know that there's a thriving market for car geeks who replace their engine's ROMs with programmable versions so that they can tweak fuel flow and air mixtures throughout the power curve? It's not uncommon to see someone pecking away at a laptop jacked into their engine.
Computer geeks just know their particular area(s) of expertise better than anyone else. Doesn't mean someone who builds websites or administers databases for a living knows how to compile a kernel.The people who don't aren't computer geeks. Geeks are more about a general aptitude, and their focuses narrow from there. They may not have a particular skill today, but point them at some docs and give them a little while and they'll be progressing in that direction.
By analogy, all doctors get the same core curriculum from med school, then specialize. The difference between a family practice guy and a general surgeon is in what they chose to learn about afterward, but either one could pick up the other's textbooks and figure out the basics.
And thus are geeks. A web geek is a database geek who got derailed. The ones who aren't capable of switching from one field to the other? Those are just nerds.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?