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Openmoko's Open Source Phone Goes Mass-Market
nerdyH writes "Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France, and India, says the company. The Neo Freerunner features an open hardware design, and a Linux-based operating system that users are free to modify. The project originally hoped to produce a mass-market offering last October. The $400 Freerunner will remain available direct, online, too. A 2.5G GPRS/GSM phone like the original iPhone, it boasts a 500MHz processor, WiFi, 3D accelerometers, a 4.3-inch VGA touchscreen, Bluetooth, and built-in GPS."
That's so last century.
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
That's about all I have to say... 2.5G... if not for that I'd keep my existing iPhone but because of it I'm upgrading next month.
So blatantly I have no real need for a phone, why do they all have to be so gaddamn expensive? I can't afford much more than £5 a month for calls, will the open-ness and WIFI-ness of this phone allow me to say, use my internet (which I already pay for) to make phonecalls? (for free)
What's with the 2.5G? Did n't the Iphone get absolutely slammed for the lack of it, something that British (european) users apparently Have To Have? Given that this is a french phone and not a US thing, surely it would come with the usual standards.
Also, can I ssh into my computer and restart my webserver, motherfucker??? :)
I understand that an open phone cannot be CDMa for obvious reasons, but HSDPA and/or UMTS? C'mon ppl...wait.. I'll just go to their website and add a 3G/3.5G/WiMax module and then DDoS all objectors...heheheh...you're welcome!
Atheist: Buddhist in a Prius
I iz American. I can has OpenMoko?
translation: When is US getting sweet, sweet OpenMoko goodness?
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
3G was never planned for this version and even subsequent versions only may get it thy can get buy it in low volume and can write/publish it with GPL'ed driver (if necessary for 3G module). Same goes for a lot of other things that your run-of-the-mill phone boasts. Most chip-makers wont even talk to you if you want low volume + open specs/drivers.
WIFI wouldn't have been included if they didn't find an appropriate chip (for mobile phones) with open drivers etc. or at least the possibility to write an open driver with NDA'ed docs.
Mod me down all you want for saying this, but at least the name on this phone is substantially better than "Neo1973." Not only did it sound like the nickname of someone who is way too old to be a Keanu Reeves fanboy, but the presence of a date in there also seems to date the device itself. This is similar to why the XBox 2 is called the Xbox 360, because it "sounds" better than the PS3 according to soccer moms. Neo1973 is just a geeky name, period.
As for the phone, I'm interested in call quality/reception, and battery life before all the other gee-whiz features that you can do with it. Anyone know how it performs there?
Can you set up the 3d accelerometers to do gesture-based calling? Because I can think of a few gestures I'd like to associate with some jerks I have to call on a regular basis.
stuff |
The linuxdevices story is wrong, see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02
Indeed, 400MHz 2.8in screen.
Further, the linuxdevices story doesn't say they have begun shipping, it says that they have announced distributors who they will ship to. The only thing they've begun shipping is contracts and red tape.
nerdyH, you're a fucktard.
I can't wait, I've developed _serious_ blueballs waiting for this thing. Lets see... www.openmoko.com... store...
Invalid security certificate? D'oh!
Hope that gets fixed soon too. wasn't there a discussion about that recently?
More music, fewer hits
There's only one reason why i'll get one of these, that's sync support with Linux platforms (evolution eg). Yes, i'm assuming they'll figure out how to do that.
Its a phone. Yah, lots of new wiz bang features, most of which the average person won't ever use. Most of the rest will be used a handful of times by someone to show off how advanced their PHONE is.
If I wait a year, I'll get the equavalent of this model for free with a new service contract. Even then, I won't be using most of the functionality.
The most I can ever see being useful in a phone is email, gps and voice calls. Even then, I think you'd need to be traveling for work to actually use those features enough to pay for them.
But what do I know? I live in a van down by the river.
A couple of 30-somethings embark on the ultimate roadtrip
I'm really considering buying a Neo Freerunner. At 300 euros it's reasonably priced.
Some improvements I'd like to perform to it that a normal phone does not have:
- depending on who's calling perform any of these behaviors:
* ring, vibrate or ignore the call
* answer the call with a dynamic or static message for example where i am (coordinates or city name), why i'm not answering (eating, sleeping, meeting)
* install an operator menu ("Jos is in a meeting, i'm openmoko his assistant. do you want to make an appointment for him to call you back?"
- record my accelleration and position all day (because i can)
- switch an annoying caller to a signal of strange noises or a helpfully scripted assistant or a nice song to put them on hold with
- put a filter on incoming and outgoing sounds to give them echo or change the pitch
- record every call i make
DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
But its not Japanese sex robot.
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
look at Firefox, it's turned out fantastically well
Yes, but it took ten years.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Moko sounds exactly like moco, which in spanish (one of the most used languages in the world) means snot... Not a very good name, eh? Folks, when creating a brand name for a product to be released worldwide, you have to check these things so that you do not end up with names like Ford Pinto (small penis in Brazil) or Mitsubishi Pajero (wanker in some latin american countries).
They certainly have got the past tense down. "neo 1973 used to be available".
present tense too: "neo 1973 is no longer available". "Freerunner is not available".
And future tense? Yep: "Freerunner will be available later".
Now, all we need are some phones!
Ron
The point is it costs more does less but gee it's open source. Not seeing the ground breaking. It's not the first so it's just an expensive open source iPhone clone.
If the iPhone is everything you want, then this isn't the phone for you. Guess what, though? Not everybody is just like you, nor ought you expect them to be - that's arrogant and narrow-minded.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I too only use a low level voice phone Nokia (1100) and have no use for a fancier phone. You can still get low-level phones for pretty low cost new, and almost free on eBay etc.
But at least I can appreciate that there are other people out there who actually have a lifestyle/usage pattern that fits better with a more sophisticated phone and have the money to spend on it.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Dare I ask if it will be available or usable in Canada?
$399 sounds entirely reasonable. A no-contract Treo or Blackberry costs about $600.
Rasterman, who hardly anyone probably still remembers works there. $400 is incredibly high for GPRS. It's like reading about a new toaster oven for $1000. Maybe they're giving away free Moko 2's to everyone who buys a Moko 1 after May 31.
Why you may ask? After talking to AT&T the Wi-fi will be bricked on the iPhone 3G if you do not have a $30 data plan. Not so with the freerunner.
Shock resistance?
Hmm. Casemod I guess, I have the CAD specs, right? Right? But seriously, it sucks that modern phones are so damn fragile. I'm _still_ using an ancient siemens lump because it's rubber and metal, and you can throw it against a wall and have it land in a puddle of beer... and it's fine.
And it still doesn't have a camera. What the hell are they thinking?
Join the petition:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Camera
My only real "requirement" for a cell phone is that it have actual buttons, not a touch screen, and not a flat piece of plastic where you're unable to distinguish each button. I don't see where you can customize the buttons for openmoko.. sigh.
The images of this phone show an "External GPS port". I've never seen one of those before-- can I attach an external GPS antenna to this phone, or does this only attach to an external GPS?
I'd like to use the GPS feature while walking/hiking/biking, but I want the GPS to stay in my pocket instead of carrying the unit in my hands all the time. An external antenna would work good for me.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Horray for an open phone.. except too bad the UI is dog slow and SUCKS, and basically requires a stylus, and it isnt multitouch. Oh and the built in web browser blows chunks, and it doesnt have most features you'd expect a phone to have, and its screen is depressed from the frame around it so you cant "click" on things on the side with your fingers, and and and...... (yes ive actually used one)
That's terrific, and something I've wanted on my Treo for quite a while. Whether it's plugging in disk drives, keyboards, or any other common peripheral....
here are teh REAL specs from openmoko's website:
* 2.8" VGA TFT color display
* Touchscreen, usable with stylus or fingers
* 266MHz Samsung System on a Chip (SOC)
* USB 1.1, switchable between Client and Host (unpowered)
* Integrated AGPS
* 2.5G GSM â" tri band (900/1800/1900), voice, CSD, GPRS
* Bluetooth 2.0
* Micro SD slot
* High Quality audio codec
Note that it has a USB 1.1 (slower transfers) and is triband (no 850 for north america)
Also the article points to a meaningless page with no real info. Here is the actual page for openmoko.
And the official site still says that its not released. The whole submission looks trollish to me.
http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html
Detailed hardware specs:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware
The Openmoko Website still shows that the phone is sold out. AFAIK, it has been showing this page for the last 5 months. The link given in the post also shows up a blank page, except for some ads. Please, can anyone provide a correct link to the article ?
*sweet!*
...'cause i find fingers sooo imprecise with touchscreen....
so i can plug a mini-keyboard on it and not use that touchscreen stuff!! (yeah, i hate touchscreens...)
anyway, anyone knows if the touchscreen is just finger-style or can i use also a pencil-style pointer?
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know." -- Mark Twain
I click on the linuxdevices link in the article and I get taken to a page with a big ad for some white papers, a lot of white space, and links to other stories. Anyone else seeing that?
- old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station, eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me if they (openmoko) got the chips for free, as they are so ancient - no EDGE, GPRS w/ 2KB/s. Openmoko is likely the last buyer.
- audio quailty on the headphone is lousy due to a hardware bug - as mp3 player useless
- headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works
- headphone unusable for making phone calls due to EM-interferences
- no bluetooth headset support
- no bluetooth keyboard support (dropped since last version)
- graphics sluggish and even slower than Neo 1973 despite 2D accel chip
- GPS has >10 minutes TTFF - yes, in 2008 where every cheapo GPS gets a fix in 45secs
- developer community alienated by Lauer & Co. GNOME knew why they kicked Rasterman out.
- so called ASU software is pre-alpha and reinventing the wheel once again
Unless your company pays for it, don't buy it."Moco" meaning "booger" in Spanish, I don't think THAT many people will be willing to get one :-p
I don't have a sig.
The link in the article goes to a page with just ads. Going to the main LinuxDevices website and clicking on the link also leads to the same blank page (with ads). Trying to cash in on the Slashdot effect? ;p
I wouldn't be surprised if it was illegal under that new legislation the current crop of fascists wants to enact. This thing sounds like it was made for card-swapping and flexibility.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I still prefer my Debian GNU/Linux-based Nokia N800. I can browse the full web without eyestrain and just leave the tablet in the car when I don't need it. And it has Skype, a Mozilla browser, and wifi.
the new one also has GPS and WiMAX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N810
(I have no affiliation with Nokia, but like their Linux phones.)
Apart from the corrections everyone's made, the FreeRunner will allegedly go on sale July 4th (we'll see) and yes, I'm getting one. I don't have a phone now, because I despise the lock in and ridiculous pricing of US carriers/plans. Of course, I still need to get a plan of some kind, so that'll be the $100 PAYG T-Mobile, which at 1000 minutes, might even last me all year.
There's a 10 pack group buy, which is 10% discount and includes some extras. If you add tax and shipping that comes to about $400 even each:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales
Clearly this phone is evolutionary rather than revolutionary and it's obviously not for everyone, but it's a good step. That it's a portable Linux device with GSM and WiFi, for my own needs, however is a compelling reason to get it.
For me the killer feature is the openness of the platform (datasheets for almost all of the modules, the ability to completely brick it and then restore with JTAG, etc). I'll forgive a lot of flaws in order to support that philosophy.
You seem to have some misunderstandings about the expected state of the software, and you're conflating software & hardware issues.
The software is absolutely not ready for production, and no one is saying it is. I do think the new architecture at freesmartphone.org is going in the right direction, and it sounds as if it already supports stable calling.
It supports external keyboards and stereo headsets:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Support
So either you fail to check facts before posting or you distribute FUD on purpose. How's working for Iphone astroturf team?
That's a software problem, it _will_ be resolved soon.
PS: just ordered Moko.
Um, at $400 it's more expensive than a new iPhone (no, I'm not calculating service charges).
It also seems pretty expensive compared to other phones too.
Am I missing something, or is Linux not cheap anymore?
There probably won't be a market for it, unless you get an influx of telcos without their telephone poles up their asses.
Your link says: "Bluetooth is one of the core functions of the Neo1973, however it is basically unimplemented on the software side at the moment."
I presume you must therefore work for the OpenMoko astroturfing team... ?
Google's Android is Linux based... anyone know if the Openmoko phone will be able to run it?
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
Everybody see's it as an iPhone clone because it has a touch screen, accelerometers, etc.
The reality is this phone is aimed at a completely different market than the iPhone. This phone is aimed at those who value open source software / hardware, whereas the iPhone is aimed at the 'Cool' sector.
I am going to be getting one later in the year when my current 3-year contract runs out. I am tired of locked phones with disabled features for the benefit of the phone company. To me the ability to control my own phone is more important than having a few extra bells and whistles like the iphone.
Technology is most abused by the very people it was created to help
Too bad no GSM provider networks in Europe support the 'A' in AGPS while Sprint (CDMA) and AT&T (GSM) do over in North America.
Expect the standalone GPS Time To Fix to be horrendous.
This will would affect the iPhone 3G in on the same networks as well, except that Apple's building a cell-tower database which will give you a coarse fix, and which data can help speed up the standalone Time To Fix...
Nothing ever is... :(
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Would be better if it could be charged via USB.
Okay, thank you for your fanboi insight's. There are 1500 more of your kind on the mailing list. But last not least: how many developers have jumped your train? The answer is: zero. Nada. Even a developer who worked for Openmoko said on his blog -ironically being spread via planet.openmoko.org- he would never buy it.
Now go and spend your fanboi money if you really have to.
Okay, fanbois just called in to mod the post down:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/019880.html
yes yes call me a troll or a whatever but it's not about have today's bleeding edge, it's about tomorrows foundations I do not want to buy V2 it a year or two when my AJAX apps take five days to load
money spent now save time later
"developer community alienated by Lauer & Co. GNOME knew why they kicked Rasterman out."
WTF? One thing to say here. No one kicked me out of GNOME - get your history right. Do your research. You demonstrate some serious ignorance here. I chose to not contribute anymore due to GNOME going one way, and me going another. I had plans for E and they had plans for GNOME as of course "GNOME needs no window manager. it can work with all of them!". Check your history mate.
Thanks for registering your account now for some trolling fun.
--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Everyone does know this thing is a piece of crap, right? The reason the iPhone works with no buttons is because you have this highly flexible capacitive touchscreen which enables two things: more UI utility with the use of advanced controls, and a more durable touchscreen that doesn't slowly become damaged with use -- no worries about stylus scratches or repetitive stress on the soft touchscreen surface.
Then, of course, there's the fact that the software is abysmal. You can barely make a phone call reliably.
Call me back when this thing doesn't fail so hard.
+++ATH0
I think a Nokia mobile phone and a Nokia N800 network tables (N800 is pretty cheap right now) are a better option. You can tether the N800 to your mobile phone (basically use your mobile as a modem). You will get more functionality than the freerunner and the N800 runs Linux (bigger screen) and is very hackable and stable right now.
But.. Will it blend?
The Millenium Falcon isn't the hottest looking thing either but...
PM
I've thought for quite a long time that the Neo would make a great network debugging tool - plug in a USB ethernet adaptor and you can wander around a site running network tests from your phone.
http://blog.nexusuk.org
it costs twice what this year's iPhone does
How do you figure that out?
The new 8GB iPhone costs £639 (£99 + £30 / month for 18 months: http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paymonthly), whilst the Freerunner will cost about £272 (up-front cost, no contract: https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko).
http://blog.nexusuk.org
Your point would have been better made without the open threat of hostility at the end.
"They didn't kick me out, why would they? Now watch me harass you hah hah hah hah!"
.Its HUGE!!! I'll wait until its smaller than my current phone. If someone develops a longevity version (maybe using e-paper instead of the current display technology) that'll make it even sweeter. Come to think of it.. why can't anyone create an epaper display to put over my normal laptop screen and that gets its drive from a USB slot (or the VGA port) so I can turn my power hungry screen off if all I want to do is edit documents all day and not play silly computer games?
Having a talk plan is good for the provider, bad for you. That's why buying a phone with a talk plan is always cheaper than without. The iPhone would be much more expensive if Apple didn't force AT&T on you.
So while, yes, you're right (apples to oranges), you're still either stupid or uninformed. Thanks for your contribution!
You are right, but all too often I see this posited as the device's sole virtue. The real value of the iPhone is that it has an extremely considered user interface, nearly free of arbitrary visuals and adherence to arbitrary convention.
From what I've seen, I don't think OpenMoko has a bad UI, but compared to all the fat stripped from and nuances considered within Apple's touch interface, it's kind of like comparing a higher-end bike from Target and a professional ultralight custom touring model.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
To do a side-by-side rundown with the iPhone (correct me if I get anything wrong):
-------
Does anyone know what current phones have an SMedia 3362? According to GLBenchmark the top performers seem to be totally dominated by PowerVR-based systems. Any idea how the 3362 compares?
(Aside: The formatting/preview in the inline editor doesn't seem to be working correctly in Firefox 3. Anyone else experienced this?)
It's interesting that my *point* was that the software is unfinished, and known to be unfinished, and your response was to point out to me where the software doesn't support the *hardware* you're claiming the Freerunner doesn't have.
The hardware is there. The software to support that hardware is unfinished. If you're testing things using the ASU, you're crazy.
BTW, I'v owned a Neo1973 (the dev release predecessor to the Freerunner) for about six months, so I'm not talking totally out of my ass here. I have not done any testing with Freerunner, all I'm going on there is what I see in the mailing lists & chat room.
Honestly, I'm somewhat disenchanted with OpenMoko right now. Ceasing support for the GTK platform to work on ASU was a phenomenally bad idea. However, the fso release sounds very promising. The project is very young, and already provides stable calls with suspend/resume on call.
Regarding the headset, it sounds as if you got a bad one. I would report it and ask for a replacement.
I'm pretty sure I would have heard about that battery issue. I have heard the opposite of what you're claiming, though - reports were that the Freerunner in suspend mode (which WILL wake on calls; it's really like what a normal cell phone does after X minutes of inactivity) lived for > 24 hours, and looked like it would work for a week based on battery levels.
GPS has been an issue, and honestly I've heard reports both ways - people saying they get the behavior you got, and others saying they get a fix in 2 minutes (which is still crappy) when they're standing still outside. AGPS will improve those fix times.
Honestly, all this sounds like you just want to bitch. Anyone who had enough info to know where to purchase one of these should have known that the SOFTWARE IS NOT READY. I have never seen you or your complaints in irc or on the mailing list, so I can only speculate that you have no interest in solving problems, just bitching about them.
What you're thinking of was SD. It was limited to 2GB by FAT16. ,a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDHC">SDHC could support up to 2TB using FAT32, but it is artifically limited to 32GB.
Windows puts an arbitrary limit on FAT32 volume size creation of 32GB, but it will happily read any sized FAT32 partition, all the way up to 2TB.
I have a feeling the SDHC folks decided to not exceed 32GB so people wouldn't call and complain when trying to format their new SDHC cards directly in a computer. It's unfortunate that Microsoft pulled this bullshit, because otherwise we wouldn't need yet another format upgrade in the next few years.
I'm actually curious about what format the next version of SD will use. Will it be exFAT (vista and xp)? Will it be ext2 (has a windows driver)?
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Moko? ... Uhhh... Ok. lol
Phonetic Spanish = Moco?
Translated English = Mucus?
Snot?
read the last sentence. no full-stop. he just registered his /. account "now" (very recently) to troll comments. if i had said: :) (notice the fullstop. 1 vs 2 sentences. different meanings entirely). :)
"thanks for registering your account. now for some trolling fun" then you'd definitely have a point!
--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Where did you order it? I could find no links. Thanks.
Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
Here: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner
Also check: http://www.openmoko.com/store.html
Actually, if you read the thread you are responding to, you would know that someone was mounting an attack against raster personally and all he did here was to respond to that attack.
It was not a matter of "unknown dude A defends famous developer B but got some minor detail wrong, so B turns against his own supporter A". It was a matter of "unknown dude A publicly attacks innocent developer B on false grounds, so B points out where his attacker A is wrong."
If someone publicly questions your integrity unrightfully, you have all the right in the world to question theirs.