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Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide

lamaditx writes "There is a good chance that you have heard about "Web 2.0" — the buzz-word coined by Tim O'Reilly in 2005. You will find several reviews of books about this topic on Slashdot. These cover mainly technical aspects of implementation whereas this book introduces the strategical thinking behind the whole Web 2.0 movement... Web 2.0 is so much more than the technology.' The table of contents is available from O'Reilly, together with a chapter preview. The book does not come with any extras but includes the usual free 45 days access to the book on Safari. When reading a book I usually flip through it quickly to get an impression for it, in this case there are three things which I noted right away." Keep reading for the rest of Adrian's review. Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide author Amy Shuen and Simon St. Laurent (editor) pages 266 publisher O'Reilly Media , Inc. rating 10 reviewer Adrian Lambeck ISBN 978-0-596-52996-3 summary Business thinking and strategies behind successful Web 2.0 implementations First, I was drawn by the the foreword by Tim O'Reilly. Since I have read his article about Web 2.0 back then I came to the conclusion that the strategy guide is a kind of successor. The next think I was looking at is information about the author. Amy Shuen concentrates on business models and teaches entrepreneurship, strategy, and venture finance on major business schools around the world. Amy is currently a Professor of Management Practice at the "China Europe International Business School" (CEIBS).

Secondly I noticed that there are a lot of footnotes on every page which reference other publications that fit the current topic. This is perfect if you want to drill into the details about a specific issue or lack some background knowledge.

The last thing I notice are the really big "End Notes" which spread across 40 pages and the bibliography which consists of 22 pages. This means that around a quarter of the book is additional information. I am pretty sure this fact is due to the academic roots of Amy Shuen and I think it is appropriate for this kind of guide. Actually this is what I expect from a guide — it should guide me through the topic and summarize the overall picture.

After flipping through the book I started reading it — and couldn't stop. I had to travel to Munich the other day — I boarded the plane with nothing else but the book and my boarding pass. I received the book on Thursday and finished reading it on Saturday.

Reading this book is fun for several reasons. I hate authors that put graphics into their books and don't provide you with additional information. That is not the case in this book, all the graphics are easily read (the only exception is a picture on page 5). Most graphics, functions, and screenshots are self explanatory. From my own experience I know it is not easy to find the right mixture between too much detail and too little.

Another important point are the numerous case studies in every chapter. Of course they do not include all information and details but they emphasize the theoretical point and provide you with a good feeling about the business case. Reading these kind of "historical" stories also adds some life to the book. Even though I have written a paper about Google's Page Rank algorithm and therefore a rough understanding of it, I learned many details about the competition between Google and GoTo (later known as Overture) that I did not know. It also teaches you that the effortless looking success of a company like Google involved tough times in the past. Running the Web 2.0 track is not always that easy as it looks like.

Talking about the big names: This book is interesting for anybody involved in a Web 2.0 (or escaping Web 1.0 ;-) ) environment no matter if you are working in a big, small, or start-up company. Amy stresses this point several times as she points out "Your business probably isn't Facebook, LinkedIn, or even something that looks much like them".

So how are you be able to transfer the knowledge you gained from the book to your own Web 2.0 concept? Amy to the rescue. Each chapter ends with a "Lessons Learned" section to summarize the most important points. After that she provides you with a section "Questions to Ask" which cover strategic and tactical issues with these tools at hand. The last chapter will also support you to "apply Web 2.0 strategic thinking to your business". Maybe you are writing a business plan or a project proposal to get your idea started. The last chapter will help.

In the end I would like to talk about the rating I am assigning to this book. I rated it as 10 which means it is "excellent" or one might call it a "classic work". I have not talked much about the content of the book because I did not want to provide you with a plain summary. I expect this book to become one of the "must-read" in business as well as technical classes since more and more business models will evolve in a Web 2.0 environment. Another reason is the well explained and easy to read writing style. Technical terminology is kept to a minimum thus not requiring a lot of prior knowledge.

Adrian Lambeck is a master student in "Information and Media Technologies" in Germany and thinks about starting his own (Web 2.0 ?) business.

You can purchase Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

151 comments

  1. web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Asshat_Nazi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    please stop with the version numbers, it's insulting and it's dumb

    --
    ...sailing the sausage seas!
    1. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by dubl-u · · Score: 4, Funny

      Speak for yourself. I'm running Web 2.3 beta 5, and it's nice to have a numeric metric that proves how much I'm ahead of the rest of you chumps.

    2. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by doti · · Score: 1

      ORLY?

      --
      factor 966971: 966971
    3. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by omeomi · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pfft. Anybody who's anybody is using Web 3.0rc3

    4. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you're not tracking svn, you're a chump.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by jth213 · · Score: 1

      Man, you are waaaay behind. I'm running 'Web 2008 Ultimate'. You need an upgrade dude.

    6. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by winmine · · Score: 3, Funny

      Youngin's with their new toys. I do just fine on ARPAnet 0.5

    7. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Fred_A · · Score: 0, Troll

      Speak for yourself. I'm running Web 2.3 beta 5, and it's nice to have a numeric metric that proves how much I'm ahead of the rest of you chumps.

      Oh, you've heard of the Web ? I've heard of the Web too !

      Wait, what was the article about again ?

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    8. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by d'baba · · Score: 1

      Only early adopters (read 'I like pain') and lusers use x.0 of anything.
      Make mine Web(dows) 3.11

    9. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by dyefade · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's just a way of succinctly describing various developments (both social and technological) which have occurred on the web in the last few years. It's true that people tend to overuse it and the point that it becomes a meaningless buzzword, but here the use is very appropriate. I don't find it insulting or dumb at all - what's in a name?

    10. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by merreborn · · Score: 1

      I hear Microsoft is about to release their version of Web 2009 in Home, Business, Premium, and Ultimate Editions.

    11. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you're crazy? Risking it all on pre-release when Web 3.1 for Workgroups is just around the corner?

      Now with 3 times the Ajax in 10 times the blogs using only half the Java!

    12. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      Yeah well, I have RHEW (Red Hat Enterprise Web 5.0). Its like your version, but more much stable and enterprisey.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    13. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the *real* developers upgraded to git years ago.

    14. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 0, Troll

      what's in a name?

      Nothing, asshole.

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    15. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 1

      Chump.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    16. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, in 2014.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    17. Re:web 2.0 doesn't exist! by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 0, Troll

      Oh come on, he said what's in a name, not in calling somebody a name.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
  2. Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by Nomen+Publicus · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Anyone else noticed that almost all Web 2.0 applications are strongly centralised and cannot survive a central server outage?

    Not really how we expected the Internet to develop.

    1. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by EricR86 · · Score: 1

      Well at least there are options like the Google App Engine

    2. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Anyone else noticed that almost all Web 2.0 applications are strongly centralised and cannot survive a central server outage?

      With Google, the current epitome of Web 2.0-ness, there's no such thing as a 'central server outage'. Google has no 'central servers'. Such is the benefits of distributed computing.

    3. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Anyone else noticed that almost all Web 2.0 applications are strongly centralised and cannot survive a central server outage? Not really how we expected the Internet to develop.

      They'll survive outages of your own computer, don't they? When all your little friends in your network lose their Internet connections, does the site go down? I mean I'm sure global thermonuclear war would knock Facebook off the net (thank God) but these days most non-DoD networks are not being designed with a narrow focus on global thermonuclear war.

    4. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Maybe the question could be tweaked as:
      "Does Web 2.0 mean that n-tier solutions are retreating to client-server?"

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    5. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Maybe the question could be tweaked as:
      "Does Web 2.0 mean that n-tier solutions are retreating to client-server?"

      No. With things like Silverlight and Adobe AIR, I contrarily predict an explosion of desktop-like n-tier solutions will become available.

    6. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But if "web 2.0" applications gradually replace traditional applications, that could be a major problem. Imagine having to do your taxes on a "web 2.0" application the night before they were due and having the website down because of heavy traffic.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    7. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I think that cloud computing projects like app_engine, and APIs like OpenSocial are going past the typical "Web 2.0" mindset. (Cloud Computing + Gadgets == Web 3.0)

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    8. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by MacDork · · Score: 1

      Riiight, because Facebook isn't really serving 475,000 images/sec.

    9. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Imagine having to do your taxes on a "web 2.0" application the night before they were due and having the website down because of heavy traffic.

      That's already a problem. Most desktop apps for taxes do regular updates from the server to ensure they have the latest information. They also allow for e-filing, which is another area of connectivity that could fail.

      The solution is not to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that it's too hard. The solution is to size capacity for the expected load. Companies like Google and Amazon are leading the way in planning for sudden spikes in capacity requirements.

    10. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1
      I wasn't well worded previously.
      Could you argue that the flagrant use of XmlHTTPRequest() to give you that shiny Web 2.0 experience binds the browser so tightly to the server as to be more like client-server?
      Daring a bit of research, Wikipedia clearly answers no:

      Though it can do synchronous fetches, it is virtually always asynchronous, due to the greater UI responsiveness.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMLHttpRequest

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    11. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by Bovarchist · · Score: 1

      More importantly, developers should take a few minutes to learn how to size their solution to the expected capacity.

      --
      Hell is other people's code.
    12. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Web programming gay

      fixed it for ya !

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    13. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      The authorities in the UK had exactly that problem with tax returns a few months ago. IIRC, they ended up having to extend the official deadline for filing, because so many people tried (perfectly within the rules) to file their returns on the last day, but couldn't because the system was down.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    14. Re:Twitter is up...down...up...down...Whats on TV? by HishamMuhammad · · Score: 1

      Well, that's what the first A in AJAX stands for, after all.

  3. Priceless by thrashee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Web 2.0 is so much more than a technology." Priceless. I can sum up the entirety of this book quite simply: If you want to be "Web 2.0", develop a web application that is social-based, use plenty of Flash or Ajax (Ajax preferable), and create an API that allows script kiddies everywhere to fashion useless add-ons (preferably that involve cute icons of small furry animals or various celebratory trinkets). That's the Foreword, Prologue, and Chapters 1-5. Chapters 6-10, Epilogue, and Appendices are as follows: The magic behind the Web 2.0 movement is this: the generation of kids nowadays have grown up using computers, are computer savvy, and are used to being online. So websites have become portals for social interactivity. The more interactive you can make the sites, the more "social" they become. So ends the mystery of Web 2.0.

    1. Re:Priceless by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Web 2.0 is all the things you could do with popups and IFrames across an intranet, except now we use XMLHttpRequests, and you don't have to worry about the secretaries with the PII 350 getting pissy as their machine chokes to death on Javascript.

      Not really that exciting.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    2. Re:Priceless by spun · · Score: 4, Funny

      What are you, some kind of commie? Look, hype is all we have left. Hype is a precious natural resource and you are squandering it. If people don't get pumped up about the idea of social interactive service oriented web enabled crap, how will we get another wave of ridiculous investment? Without that wave of investment, when will we regain our Aeron chairs and foosball in the lobby?

      What, do you expect us to work for a living? That's for suckers.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    3. Re:Priceless by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      LOL, I was honestly doing a lot of this stuff back in the later part of the 90's with I/Frames, usually frames, as it tended to work better for an "application" feel. Would use one for my control scripts... control = window.top.frames['control']; ... then I could simply control.createBox(window, x, y, z, w, h, color); ... and similar... for the NN4 flickering issue, I would do a box over everything, then draw underneath, then remove the mask... Another frame to send queued requests to the backend, that return script to be processed. var data=unescape("..."); window.top.frames['control'].finishQueItem(data);

      I'll take the W3C-DOM and newer techniques over the hacks I had to do back then any day... It's kind of full circle, in the 90's when IE4 an NN4 came out, everyone wanted DHTML... it took a lot of hacking away back then, but it did work. Then for a while *everything* was all server-side. Now it's DHTML under a new flag (AJAX).

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    4. Re:Priceless by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      WTF are you talking about? It's still all Javascript-based, and now it's XML-based too, so it's slow as hell. On the other hand, the secretary has a dual-core now, so it seems fast anyway, just like GTK, or Motif, or Qt, or Aqua...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Priceless by msormune · · Score: 1

      Actually they are not computer savvy. They are web site/portal/messaging/icon clicking savvy. Kids do not know about computers any more than 20 years ago, maybe even less.

    6. Re:Priceless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod em up. That is exactly what I was thinking. Maintain the hype..... At all cost!!! LOL

    7. Re:Priceless by thrashee · · Score: 1

      I think you're applying a more stringent definition of the term savvy here. I'm not talking about being able to compile a Linux kernel, build a custom rig, or program in any certain language. I'm talking about overall familiarity with computer operation. Kids today, of course, are much more savvy than kids of 20 years ago because 20 years ago the PC revolution hadn't even taken off yet. All of this is really besides my original point: demand drives everything. And as more and more kids grow up being used to using computers as social devices, it only stands to reason that the social revolution meets the challenge.

    8. Re:Priceless by Jasonjk74 · · Score: 1

      Actually they are not computer savvy. They are web site/portal/messaging/icon clicking savvy.

      Exactly. I keep telling people the same thing. The media and people in general, keep hyping up all these kids as being amazingly "savvy" because they can check email, download songs from iTunes, and check email.

    9. Re:Priceless by Jasonjk74 · · Score: 1

      Actually they are not computer savvy. They are web site/portal/messaging/icon clicking savvy.

      Exactly. I keep telling people the same thing. The media and people in general, keep hyping up all these kids as being amazingly "savvy" because they can check email, download songs from iTunes, and check email.

      Oops! I said "check email.." and "check email.." That must be the sleep-deprivation talking/typing.

    10. Re:Priceless by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 1

      90's, please. I used to do it by sending old Yeller up the hill to let me know when our cow Betsy would get home from the pasture. It worked really well most of the time except sometimes when he'd get lost on the way back and he'd get a race condition. As time passed it got worse, he was doing core dumps in the livingroom daily. That's when we knew we had to put him down.

      Don't even get me started on the Carrier Pidgeon Protocol.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
  4. A strategy guide for the interwebs? by Bugs42 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't need it. I already beat the interwebs. The end guy was hard.

    --
    Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
    1. Re:A strategy guide for the interwebs? by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

      The final credits were amusing : http://www.kisstv.ro.ro/

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    2. Re:A strategy guide for the interwebs? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Dude, I still can't get past the social networking level. WTF am I supposed to do? I've got 12M friends, and I guess I have to out-friend that guy Tom, but every time I get a new one he gets like 5. Also, some of my friends are dying off or de-friending me while I'm not looking.

      Also, anybody know if the Web 2.1 patch fixes the endless Wikipedia loop? Sometimes I have to restart my browser just to get out of it, although this technique doesn't always work with Firefox 3.

    3. Re:A strategy guide for the interwebs? by Bugs42 · · Score: 1

      Dude, I still can't get past the social networking level. WTF am I supposed to do? I've got 12M friends,

      You're doin' it wrong. It's like WarGames: The only winning move is not to play.

      --
      Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
    4. Re:A strategy guide for the interwebs? by 93,000 · · Score: 1

      Damn this struck me funny for some reason. Well done, sir.

    5. Re:A strategy guide for the interwebs? by Mazzie · · Score: 1

      They need to track down the first person ever to use the term 'interwebs' and give them a life time achievement award for comedy, because its funny every time.

      --
      Having a bookmark to Google does not make you an expert on everything.
  5. Blink by tyler.willard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Technical terminology is kept to a minimum thus not requiring a lot of prior knowledge.

    Is that really supposed to be a selling-point for this crowd?

    1. Re:Blink by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you're not familiar with the technologies of the world wide web, it is. (You've also been living under a rock, and should turn your geek card in at the door, but you know, you don't have to cry or anything.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. Strategy guide? by gparent · · Score: 3, Funny

    Are there any cheat codes?

    1. Re:Strategy guide? by InlawBiker · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it's called "Ruby on Rails."

    2. Re:Strategy guide? by ibbie · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, with the Ruby on Rails cheat code, and you start with a book full of spells... but your character will also cast them v e r y s l o w l y.

      On the other hand, there's a C cheat code as well: your character moves and attacks lightning fast, but you have to write your own spells. And robe. And wizard hat.

      --
      The wise follow a damned path, for to know is to be forsaken.
  7. The secret by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Funny

    The boss is easy to beat. You give him a lot of venture capital, ask for fifty new features that confuse the user interface and when his user base starts to dwindle, you pull the funding.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  8. "Strategical"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who writes your stuff? President Bush?

    "Strategic" is an adjective, exactly the word you need there. "Strategical" is a nonsense word.

    1. Re:"Strategical"??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's aimed at the sort of people who get a hardon over things like "Web 2.0", so give them a break. It's not their fault they're retards.

  9. The Best Web 2.0 Strategy Is... by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    ... Figure out what Web 3.0 is, then do that.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:The Best Web 2.0 Strategy Is... by notorious+ninja · · Score: 2, Funny

      too late, Web 3.0 already exists as the "semantic web" and I've seen Web 4.0 as "the learning web" or "the webOS", whatever that means. Some days it's really hard to stop rolling my eyes at work.

    2. Re:The Best Web 2.0 Strategy Is... by hampton · · Score: 1

      Web 3.0 = FUFMe

  10. Web 364.29891 by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The next think I was looking at is information about the author

    Did they proofread the book or rely on a spill chucker two made surly tea spilled thins wright?

    Amy Shuen concentrates on business models and teaches entrepreneurship, strategy, and venture finance on major business schools around the world. Amy is currently a Professor of Management Practice at the "China Europe International Business School"

    This is the LAST person I would want to read a webmaster guide by.

    provide you with a good feeling about the business case

    I finally figured out the difference between web 1.1 and web 2.0. Web 1.1 was about content, web 2.0 is about filthy lucre.

    This book is interesting for anybody involved in a Web 2.0 (or escaping Web 1.0 ;-) ) environment no matter if you are working in a big, small, or start-up company

    There it goes again. As if the internet or the WWW is only about businesses and money. Dammit, Jim, I'm a nerd, not a businessman!

    I thank you for the review; I see this is not the book for me. You may have saved me checking it out of the library.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    1. Re:Web 364.29891 by DrgnDancer · · Score: 0, Redundant

      1) The reviewers native language is German (or so one can surmise from the fact that he lives and studies in Germany), give him a break, this was pretty readable for a non-native speaker.

      2) The book is not for webmasters, clearly. It's a business strategy guide to Web 2.0 technology, not a programmer/admin guide. it is therefore written from a business perspective.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    2. Re:Web 364.29891 by anomalous+cohort · · Score: 1

      Coincidentally enough, I was in a bookstore yesterday looking at this book and considering whether or not to buy it. As someone interested in Web 2.0 (technology and economics), I thought that I might pick it up and give it a read. Also, the book was already discounted.

      My impression after scanning the TOC and leafing through random pages was a sense of the author attempting to pander to that crowd who is interested in adding the Web 2.0 check mark to their business. It's kind of like a digital "keeping up with the Joneses," a "been there, done that, bought the tee shirt" attitude without any real sense of commitment to the basics behind the movement which is mainly an almost evangelical fervor for federated democracies that support collective intelligence and the long tail.

    3. Re:Web 364.29891 by master_p · · Score: 1

      There it goes again. As if the internet or the WWW is only about businesses and money.

      Most, if not all, human activities are about 'profit', either material or psychological (or both). In the end, you wouldn't have the Internet or computers if people did not have the drive to gain 'profit'.

  11. Do NOT upgrade to Web2.0 until the 1st service pak by bugeaterr · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do NOT upgrade to Web2.0 until at least the 1st service pack!

  12. centralized server vs. distributed server by MyNymWasTaken · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Anyone else noticed that almost all Web 2.0 applications are strongly centralised and cannot survive a central server outage?

    A "Web 2.0" application being based on a strongly centralized server is a problem of defective implementation, rather than defective concept.

    Google is an example of good implementation, i.e. distributed server with no central chokepoint.

  13. Bzzzzzz by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is the first in O'Reilly's new Buzzword series. Coming soon: "Blogospheres", "Synergy", and "Social Cloudcasting"

    1. Re:Bzzzzzz by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      "Social Cloudcasting"

      Please tell me you're making that up. Surely it must be a joke, right?

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    2. Re:Bzzzzzz by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ok, you caught me. But the first person to run with it ought to be able to pick up a few million in VC money.

    3. Re:Bzzzzzz by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Thank fdisk. I was already planning my ritual suicide, having given up all hope for the world.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    4. Re:Bzzzzzz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Charles, noooo! Get outta my head, Charles!!

    5. Re:Bzzzzzz by shakuni · · Score: 1

      I dont know if any of you here have raised any serious money (more than say 2 M). In my experience people don't part with money on flimsy grounds. Venture Capital or any form of investment capital has to keep a certain risk-return profile so that they can manage their returns. In doing so some firms take bigger leaps of faith make larger bets and some are conservative. We should be thankful to an investment community that fosters innovation and ideation even sans tangible business returns in the short run. It is the thriving venture capital community in the US and places like Israel that product innovations continue to show up. I am not a VC but an entrepreneur trying to build an alternate reality albeit incrementally. None of us could have predicted the rise of google but it was VCs ( a bunch of them) who invested heavily in it where they backed their gut and imagination. When it works out it looks great when it doesnt it looks dumb. I think there are only 2 kinds of people doers and talkers. Doers have a shot at succeeding but will fail as well. Talkers ... well i have said nuf.

  14. A novel strategy by MikeRT · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Instead of making a service that relies primarily on advertisement, make "Web 2.0 applications" that customers want to buy access to. You know, actually sell something rather than rely on collecting eyeballs and information.

    1. Re:A novel strategy by philspear · · Score: 1

      Most websites on the internet are porn.

      Most porn sites are not free.

      Therefore, your idea is already used by most of the internet.

    2. Re:A novel strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope... Even if most websites on the internet are porn, that doesn't mean that most porn sites are still most of the internet.

      Example:
      -internet: 51% porn, 49% everything else
      -pr0n: 51% pay, 49% free
      -free pr0n: 51% of pr0n = 51% of 51% of the internet = ~26% of the internet, not most of it.

    3. Re:A novel strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's enough free stuff on the internet that I wonder why anybody would ever pay for it. How many people really pay for internet porn? Even if I found a site that I really really liked, I still wouldn't feel safe sending money and/or credit card details to a porn site.

    4. Re:A novel strategy by philspear · · Score: 1

      That's a point, but most porn sites still WANT your money.

    5. Re:A novel strategy by philspear · · Score: 1

      Well, sure, if you're going to use "fuzzy" maths on me...

  15. Steps to Making a Successful Web 2.0 Site by ibanezist00 · · Score: 3, Funny

    1. Use Visual Studio and .NET, or Flash
    2. Make sure there are tons of shiny multicolored buttons for everything even when not necessary
    3. Implement a buddy system even though your site has nothing to do with anything social
    4. ?????
    5. PROFIT!!1!11

    --
    There are mountains to cross for those that are willing.
  16. Re:Do NOT upgrade to Web2.0 until the 1st service by sm62704 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm a former beta tester for dirt. It's still full of bugs, nobody ever bothered to write a service pack. So we may not actually get a web 2.0 servoce pack.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  17. central by dubl-u · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anyone else noticed that almost all Web 2.0 applications are strongly centralised and cannot survive a central server outage?

    Partly true, and in that, partly necessary.

    A lot of what's going on in what I will reluctantly call the "Web 2.0" world is built around database-centric frameworks. The SQL RDBMS is a strongly centralized approach, and since it was invented in the days of the mainframe, that's not a big surprise. So if you start out with a normal PHP or Rails setup, you've implicitly bought into centralized thinking whether you need it or not.

    Sometimes, that centralization is a pretty poor approach, and compute offerings from Amazon and EC2 push people away from that. It's a struggle for some; people who have only built SQL-backed web apps have a strong bias to centralization. It always worries me when I talk with a team that can only talk about "the database" (or "the server" or "the application"); if you grow sufficiently, one of anything isn't enough.

    Sometimes, though, centralization is legitimately hard to avoid. A lot of Web 2.0 apps are inherently social, and social graphs are hard to partition. If you are moving to London and want to find people in your social network who live there, that's not an easy problem to distribute, especially if you need things to stay up to the minute and work reliably.

    1. Re:central by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      How would you recommend we store our data if not in an SQL database? I agree it has a lot of centralization issues, but what's the alternative. What other ways are there of storing data in a non-centralized manner?

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:central by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 2, Funny

      XML! Everyone knows that XML is the answer! ...please don't hurt me, I'm only joking. :(

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    3. Re:central by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

      It doesn't have to be 'strongly centralized':

      You can have multiple database servers geographically dispersed in the cluster. Network Attached Storage could also be dispersed. Similarly you could have geographically dispersed web servers (probably congruent with your data cluster and NAS nodes). Your switch would provide redirection to properly distribute traffic throughout this network. Only the entry point would need to be centralized...you could even publish direct URIs for the distributed nodes to avoid that step.

      Chop off one section/node, and the rest would continue serving.

      Of course, you would need some major interconnections within your network - depending the the frequency and volume of activity on the application - and to support re-mirroring your NAS nodes after an interruption of service. If this becomes too costly your subscription service might not work out. On the other hand, if your primary source of revenue is adds (a la google) - then you might be able to justify the cost.

      If you watch what the big players are doing - they appear to be positioning exactly that way (dispersed data centres)

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    4. Re:central by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      I don't think there is a good generic recommendation. It depends on your application.

      The main thing that I think people need to do is to think beyond the notion of The One True Database and focus more on grouping data and related computation behind clean interfaces. Sometimes behind that interface you use a traditional SQL database, and sometimes you do something else. But so many people build systems where the database is both the internal API and the single integration point, turning a historical accident into a key architectural feature.

      As examples of what people are doing once they think outside the SQL box, take a look at Dynamo, Bigtable, or Mnesia. But my point isn't that you should build your system around one of those instead; it's that you should be thinking of any given solution like that as a tool in your toolbox, something that your system might use for now.

    5. Re:central by dubl-u · · Score: 1

      If you watch what the big players are doing - they appear to be positioning exactly that way (dispersed data centres)

      They are doing dispersed data centers, but often not around SQL servers. See Google's BigTable and Amazon's Dynamo as examples of this. An SQL database is inherently strongly centralized, no matter how much magic you do with your network and hardware. BigTable and Dynamo have a different philosophy, ones that puts a little more explicit burden on programmers, but scales much better because their philosophy matches the realities of distributed computation.

  18. Still no answer by Todd+Fisher · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is it pronounced "Web 2'dot'0" or is it "Web 2'point'0"? I don't want to sound foolish when I talk to people about the internets.

    --


    --I'm not talking about dance lessons. I'm talking about putting a brick through the other guy's windshield.-
    1. Re:Still no answer by PhilipOfOregon · · Score: 1

      It's pronounced "Web two full stop zero" in most of the world, but pronounced "Web two period zero" in the United States and Burma.

    2. Re:Still no answer by merreborn · · Score: 1

      At risk of answering a facetious post seriously, period characters in version numbers (which "web 2.0" is an homage to) are pronounced "point".

  19. P2P is Web 2.0 by ShadowWraith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why are the uber-corporations against P2P? It's the perfect paradigm of dynamic community-based sharing of innovation and ideas, and is the pinnacle of Web 2.0. With all those buzzwords, it must be good for business!

    1. Re:P2P is Web 2.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh man, you just found the perfect angle ... P 2.0 P!

  20. I'm waiting by PPH · · Score: 2, Funny

    For the revision that will cover Web 2.0.98, patchlevel 4.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  21. web 3.0 is already more than 2 years old by pileated · · Score: 1

    http://www.alistapart.com/articles/web3point0/

    It was obvious that Web 3.0 was the answer more than 2 years ago. Why are slashdotters so slow?

  22. the Internet is up, and will always be up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am not sure what you mean by "Internet". When I say the Internet, I mean the network where segments can be nuked and can go away and I can still get to a website where the nukes did not affect.

    As for twitter being up and down, that's their business. The Internet will still be up, even if they are down.

  23. Web 2.0 is the new golf by Debased+Manc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Something for the rich and tasteless to sink their cash into, with any expectations of long-term success being relegated to wishful bar talk.

    Also, it's a good browse spoiled.

  24. Web 2.0 PC98 by billcopc · · Score: 2, Funny

    There is a good chance that you have heard about "Web 2.0"

    WTF is this, 2002 ? Is this book written for the Amish ?

    Web 2.0 is now old hat. The magpies have moved on to bigger, shinier garbage like AIR and Silverlight.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:Web 2.0 PC98 by Shados · · Score: 1

      technically AIR and Silverlight is part of the whole Web 2.0 buzz crap.

      Though I saw scary shit recently. Some CMS system advertising Web 3.0 features >.> I wanted to murder someone.

    2. Re:Web 2.0 PC98 by billcopc · · Score: 1

      I'm just waiting for Web 4.0 to do away with HTML entirely, going 'round full-circle back to ActiveX binaries. Screw CSS, I'm using GDI primitives!

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  25. Web 2.0 same turd new hat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Web_2.0

  26. A good teacher by AutopsyReport · · Score: 3, Funny

    Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide, written by a student who thinks about starting his own (Web 2.0 ?) business.

    In the same vein, readers might also be interested in these other entertaining books:

    "Running a Business", by Someone Who's Never Run A Business

    "Orgies: How To Feel Your Way Through If You're Blind", by Helen Keller

    --

    For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    1. Re:A good teacher by dyefade · · Score: 1

      The review was written by the student. Great proofreading.

    2. Re:A good teacher by dyefade · · Score: 1

      Actually, wtf, it's just reading, not proofreading. Pah, it's midnight here, too late for me. :(

    3. Re:A good teacher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean Anne Frank? ;)

    4. Re:A good teacher by lamaditx · · Score: 1

      Hey, actually I am running my own business since I am 18 - yes - for 7 years now. I could afford to buy my first Mercedes when I was 18 too. Just because I am "still" a grad-student does not mean I don't have a clue about running a business...

  27. You're just miffed because... by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    ...you're still on 2.0, while anybody with any hipness is all the way on 4.5.

  28. next release by azzuth · · Score: 1

    I'm gonna hold out on buying it till they release it in book 2.0 format. My new eyes 2.0 aren't backwards compatable.

  29. O'reilly is a thief! by monkeyboythom · · Score: 1

    Bastard stole my idea after I called his second wife "divorce 2.0"

  30. A quarter of the book is wasted by techno-vampire · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The review says that almost a quarter of the book is endnotes referencing other books and an extensive bibliography. Considering that this is a book written about the web, don't you think that the average reader will know how to use Google to find that? I'd rather have a shorter, less costly book that trusts me to know how to find further information should I need it.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
    1. Re:A quarter of the book is wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a legal thing

    2. Re:A quarter of the book is wasted by lamaditx · · Score: 1

      I got your point - actually I think that if you really want to start something this will be a book for giving you a good reference and go on from there. It is a legal thing but also a thing about the style of writing - as I wrote just typical for the profession... So: It depends on your perspective if it is wasted or not.

  31. Is that even a word? by jth213 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These cover mainly technical aspects of implementation whereas this book introduces the strategical thinking behind the whole Web 2.0 movement
    Ummmm...strategical?

  32. argh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The entire premise of this book makes me want to strangle someone.

    This sentence (I use the term loosely) in the summary "...the strategical thinking behind the whole Web 2.0 movement..." pushes me over the top. Subby is lucky he/she did not submit this in person.

    when I reached this part:

    The next think I was looking at is information about the author. Amy Shuen concentrates on business models and teaches entrepreneurship, strategy, and venture finance on major business schools around the world.

    I cried a little.

    I felt a little better when I read the last sentence which indicated that the reviewer is not a native English speaker.
    I would still expect a little more effort from a book reviewer. If you know that your book review will be read by tens of thousands of people you should at least take the time to bring your writing up to a high-school level.
    If you cannot do this yourself then ask someone on the Internet to help you.

    This book review is sub-par for a grade 6 English class book review assignment.

  33. That is the big plus to cloud computing... by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You DON'T (in theory) have to worry too much about scalability. At least not the infrastructure side of it. So if you're caught being slashdotted, you're OK.

    Not saying these services are all the way there yet, but it appears to me that there is a whole class of sites that more and more are likely to have high traffic variability. It can be pretty hard to predict too. Cloud style utility computing is definitely one answer to that.

    So it would seem to me that 'learning how to size their solution' may be exactly what web devs WON'T need to worry about for much longer. This seems to me almost inevitable, they are orthogonal concerns. In general such things eventually get segregated into different parts of the IT skill stack, and the less one factor influences another, the more effective the overall technology.

    --
    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
  34. XML isn't enough anymore... by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    ...we have to standardize on RICH XML frameworks to demarginalize our proactive data delivery paradigm.

  35. Thanks, Tim... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because you've cursed us with a buzzword that's far more detestable than most, I stopped buying O'Reilly titles and now pirate them exclusively--88 in my library at last count. Obviously I won't be "stealing" the title from TFA though. No hard feelings, Timmy.

  36. Excuse me by unity100 · · Score: 1

    do you think anyone still care ? havent you guys already moved to new buzzwords to shove people more books ?

  37. Re:Do NOT upgrade to Web2.0 until the 1st service by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    Monsanto released a service pack for dirt, codenamed "RoundUp." But it's not open source and the EULA is a real biatch.

  38. Web ME by dfcgtvhjbnk · · Score: 1

    Screw Web 2.0, I'm still waiting for Web ME

  39. It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it).. by msimm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Book aside (I didn't RTFA) and glossing over the Web 2.0 jargon the important change I see isn't the social features you seem to be mocking. That's just an easy facet to focus on.

    What's news is websites have become services.

    Mull that over for a second if you want.

    Now days there are 2 kinds of websites: destinations and services.

    A destinations major draw is it's content and it relies on this content to draw visitors and to thereby grow its site. A service will also have content, but like the name suggests a service also provides it's visitors with services and it relies on its content *and* the usefulness of its services to grow the site.

    Now if we extrapolate that for a second we can create two imaginary retailers: musicshop01.com and musicshop02.com

    Musicshop01.com is a good old music retailer. They sell cds, lps and t-shirts and have a great selection. People love to go to musicshop01.com and find the latest music.

    Musicshop02.com just opened and they have a similar selection, but the owners a bit younger with some computer experience and a few programming buddies. People can browse catalogs and lists just like they could at musicshop01.com but they start to notice a few other features: they can create tags, add comments, create and manage lists, add ratings or reviews, view personal history, suggestions, search these items, add friends and send and receive recommendations. The website owner is happy because the cost of this user-generated content is very low (increased overhead) and the users are happy because the peer-generated content provides additional information which can prove useful.

    Over time users realize that the services provided by musicshop02.com are convenient and can save them time and can help them find products that they might not find otherwise.

    At the same time growth at musicshop01.com has been flat and is now beginning to drop as users become increasingly familiar with the services available at musicshop02.com.

    Welcome to the social revolution.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  40. Review = 2 out of 10 by modi123 · · Score: 1

    "I have not talked much about the content of the book because I did not want to provide you with a plain summary."

    - because telling me what the book was about would be.. like totally wrong or something.

    captcha: docile .. similar to the sheep buying into web 2.0

  41. Does it cover this? by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

    Does the guide cover how to beat the end boss of the Internet?

    1. Re:Does it cover this? by lamaditx · · Score: 1

      It does not cover it but gives some good references about it if you really want to dive into that topic. Just have a look at the references ...

  42. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by thrashee · · Score: 1

    Your distinction between destinations and services is dead on. That being said, I think we're now talking semantics here. All of the "services" you're using as examples are, indeed, "social features." Welcome to the social revolution, indeed.

  43. Don't you mean "strategerical"? by paco+verde · · Score: 1

    > These cover mainly technical aspects of implementation whereas this book introduces the strategical thinking behind the whole Web 2.0 movement

  44. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by msimm · · Score: 1

    Semantics is true. :)

    But the reason I make the distinction is because I think it's important to reiterate the over arching concept, which is the shift towards services, and how that really has been a useful and fundamental change in our focus.

    Once we establish that it's easy to see that social services are/(*cough* well, can) be a useful subset of possible services. But more importantly we can see much more clearly what makes todays site more (services based) or less (destination based) relevant and that seems to be the topic du jour (in the guise of the nearly unintelligible concept: Web 2.0).

    And finally, that services are about more then tacking on a blog, a wiki, a friends list and creating some worm-like 'viral marketing' campaign.

    The exchange in a service based landscape is simple: You want traffic. There's an invisible contract between you (the site) and me (the visitor): if your service isn't useful; you are not relevant.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  45. Technology? by hotfireball · · Score: 1

    Web 2.0 is so much more than the technology.

    Sounds to me like a very typical bullshit from those clueless project managers that has none of IT knowledge, but running with Gannt charts across everywhere.

    There is a fucking clear definition, already defined by ESR years ago: content, content, content and, again, content matters. While from technical perspective Ajax is NOT a technology, but a bunch of techniques that wraps all that REQUEST/RESPONSE game into more sophisticated way. As a consequence, developers that had no much clue before suddenly hyped to use XmlHttpRequest widely in the typical fashion: "I can get it working too!!".

    The fact, that you're putting an icon with a glass effect, bigger font, using pastel color gamma and refreshing page partially still does not mean something. Besides, it is as same HTTP with HTML that has been here for years.

    Again, from technology perspective, new things are Sun JavaFX, Adobe AIR, M$ Silverlight or Novel Moonlight etc â" these are conceptually newer and makes different approach to the Web in general. So technically speaking, I would suggest shut the fuck up about "Web 2.0" and call it just "Web" as it actually is.

    And from business perspective I just do not care, because I am nerd. Not a business man.

    1. Re:Technology? by lamaditx · · Score: 1

      right - this book is not for nerds ...

  46. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by bit01 · · Score: 1

    they can create tags, add comments, create and manage lists, add ratings or reviews, view personal history, suggestions, search these items, add friends and send and receive recommendations.

    Until the user realizes they've been suckered into working for the website owners. Then they become much more selective about what they contribute. The only ones left are the young, the naive and the marketing parasites all of whom tend to take away value rather than add value.

    No social revolution. Just a new way to take advantage of the naive until they learn better.

    Like .com, "Web 2.0" is largely a hype bubble. While there is some value in "Web 2.0" it is vastly overrated as a social tool and businesses that want to take advantage of the very socially aware younger generation are in for a rude awakening as the rapidly self-educating young move to websites that really do have value rather than web sites that fake it with "Web 2.0" superficialities while trying to extract maximal value at the expense of their userbase.

    ---

    Monopolies = Industrial feudalism

  47. Summary: by T3Tech · · Score: 1

    Stay off the interweb at least until Service Pack 1 is released.

    --
    Of course I didn't RTFA... why would I do that? You really are new here aren't you? Don't let my UID fool you.
  48. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 0, Redundant

    At the same time growth at musicshop01.com has been flat and is now beginning to drop as users become increasingly familiar with the services available at musicshop02.com.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but this says musicshop01.com is in fact a destination, which still is no revolution.

    You are thinking new thoughts in an old box. You have yet to escape it.

    Welcome to the social revolution attempt.

    I guarantee you 2.0 is not it.

  49. Let me just say this. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

    If you are reading a 2.0 strategy guide now, you have definitely missed the bandwagon. It may indeed be a great book, but hindsight is 20/20.

  50. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by msimm · · Score: 1

    Yes, you are wrong and in such a peculiar manner that I don't know how (or even if) to correct you.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  51. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by msimm · · Score: 1

    Until the user realizes they've been suckered into working for the website owners.

    I thought about this for a while myself. I work from both angels 1) as a user who values my privacy *and* my freedom 2) as a technology professional working in the development industry.

    The thing you need to understand is that while yes, companies *are* rubbing their hands together thinking user generated content is a big fat freebie, no, that's not how it actually works (or will work out).

    The thing to remember is that these are services. Sort of like dry cleaning is a service. The service any site provides is only useful if it is relevant. Irrelevant, cumbersome or annoying services will not find footing in the market, or will lose it as equal or better services emerge.

    An example would be google versus yahoo, the one-time market leader.

    So forgetting all the annoying hype and the related market (or pundit?) frenzy we still have a fundamental shift toward services. If your service isn't useful; it is irrelevant.

    Which is to say that if you like and visit my site xyz.com and I provide tools that enhance or simplify your experience in some way, you are likely to use them. The more useful you find these services the more likely you are to use them. In this equation, evil doesn't necessarily = successful because it impedes useful. Hence we have companies like Google who's motto is famously: Don't be evil. I'm sure they will be (or have, or are), but they seem to understand that by behaving badly they risk losing relevance.

    Anyway, what I've advocated here is to simply look beyond the social hype and the unintelligible Web 2.0 lingoism and call it what it is: a shift to services.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  52. Nope... by msimm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not that I don't get where you're coming from. But the thing that we seem to be discussing when we pull out this useless and unintelligible term Web 2.0 is the real and fundamental shift in the (for lack of a better word) marketplace.

    Pundits want to explain it (hi Tim!) businesses want to understand it. But we continuously end up talking about the technologies used (yay AJAX! yay Javascript!) or the days most popular implementations (OMG Social Social Revolution!) while we miss or ignore the simple fact that sites that are becoming relevant today are offering to be more then just a destination by provide users with useful services.

    In fact you might argue that there seems to be an increasingly direct correlation between usefulness and relevance.

    So sure, AJAX is topical and it helps you achieve some enhanced usability. But the fundamental shift in focus towards services seems to be the more salient point, remarkably, missing from the conversation.

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:Nope... by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      What I'm arguing is that the only significant things that have changed is that you can rely on your users having a high speed connection and a computer powerful enough to run JavaScript applications in a browser without choking and dying. Nothing particularly significant or innovative has changed on the software side, it's just stepwise refinement of hardware allowing the tools to be used for things that were obvious to any developer worth their salt back in 2000.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    2. Re:Nope... by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 1

      [..]you can rely on your users having a high speed connection and a computer powerful enough to run JavaScript applications[..]

      ...And being online in troves helps too.

      Which brings me to the point: you want a strategy guide for web 2.0? I got it right here. It's not even mine, I read it on some website a while ago:

      How do I get in? Answer: build the right tool.

      You no longer have to drag people kicking and screaming to the Internet. They're already here. The net is teeming with people. We've reached critical mass, we're already way past critical mass.

      You just need to give them something to do. Something simple and interesting, that does one thing and does it well. All those big sites can be summarized in one or two words: photos; videos; search; my page; my blog; geeks.

      Find a word or two that nobody's built a site for yet and you got it made.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    3. Re:Nope... by msimm · · Score: 1

      No, what you're missing is that after gaining acceptance and traction the combination of technologies commonly used to create services has begun to define the usefulness or relevance of online business.

      And all that noise you're hearing is business trying to make sense of a changing landscape and pundits gushing to provide (seemly mostly wrong) answers.

      So next time you hear someone froth up about the wonders of AJAX and the Web 2.0 maybe you can just smile to yourself knowing all their really trying to do is figure out how to stay relevant in an increasingly competitive and service based environment.

      --
      Quack, quack.
  53. Triple word score! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BINGO!!!

  54. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

    You say there are two kinds of web sites. Yet, ALL web sites are destinations. If usefulness is what gages service-ness then, well, a useless destination is one that no one goes to, so all destinations are pretty much services to a degree.

    Your example translated into a real case is pretty much what amazon.com and buy.com were during the first IT bubble, so bringing that up now 10 years later is not news. In fact, if you consider amazon or google or match.com or myspace or ebay to be services, well they've been around for a long time, and pretty much have been doing the same thing. Ebay and amazon have added new 2.0-like features, but are they revolutionary? No. Lookup their web services and they've pretty much had those for a good 5 years too.

    If you were to say new amazon2.0s and google2.0s are around the corner about to take over the world, as per your musicshop02.com exmample, then tell me more, but that is clearly not the case, and so there is no revolution.

    As a surfer, you are free to place your favorite sites into two folders labeling one "destinations" and the other "services." If that helps you, that would be your revolution.

  55. Web 2.0 in a nutshell by turly · · Score: 1
    From bash.org:

    <dsully> please describe web 2.0 to me in 2 sentences or less.
    <jwb> you make all the content. they keep all the revenue.

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    IX CCXLIX XVII II CLVII CXVI CCXXVII XCI CCXVI LXV LXXXVI CXCVII XCIX LXXXVI CXXXVI CXCII
  56. Too late! by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

    Sorry, I'm already working on Web 3.0

  57. Re:It's more then that (and I'm sure you know it). by jnowlan · · Score: 1

    Except one day you wander into musicshop01 and actually talk to a cute girl there.

    Later you go back to your computer and surf to musicshop02 and go over the same lists that now seem kind of lame and lifeless.

  58. Re:Web 2.NO by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 0, Troll

    OMG dude that's so cool I want a -1 funny too.

    --
    i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
  59. Re:Web 2.NO by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 1

    Y'all need to try harder. Just one -1 Troll ain't gonna cut it. I need at least two more -1 Overrated and a +1 Funny. I have a birthday coming up, get busy please.

    --
    i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
  60. Web 2.0 - social implications - 2 further books by CambridgeKC · · Score: 1
    There are two key books that give a more social take on Web 2.0 and that might interest techies as these books give a rather broader sweep.

    The most critical is:

    "The Cult of the Amateur: How Blogs, MySpace, YouTube and the Rest of Today's User Generated Media Are Killing Our Culture and Economy"

    by Andrew Keen.

    It may shock techies that the incredibly clever and flexible code that has been devised to enable these websites might be seen as having potentially negative side-effect on society. How can something which promotes that marvellous thing "social interaction" possibly be bad?

    Andrew Keen explains, and some younger folk may come to see this primarily as a generational divide.

    As other commenters have mentioned on this thread, techies are merely pushing the envelope to produce what kids who've never lived without the existence of the Internet or mobile phones would expect to be offered.

    But young folk who've always inhabited that brightly coloured bubble may be blinkered from recognising the downside, for they are so swept up in the ingenuity of each new development, and love the functionality that it provides, day in, day out.

    Imagine telling Americans they have to give up their car and will have to bicycle or walk to work to save the planet - "No way!" they'll shout - "sod the planet; I can't survive without my SUV"

    That's how I imagine trying to show people in the bubble that maybe Web 2.0 does have a downside - perhaps therefore its inadvisable to post this on this forum - but maybe you'd find it interesting to read an alternative view.

    Andrew Keen's arguments might do that - or maybe you are so convinced of the "inherent goodness" of Web 2.0 that you won't hear a word said against it.

    The second book is:

    "We-think: The Power of Mass Creativity" by Charles Leadbeater

    who appears to be a fully paid up true convert to the amazing delights of community participation tools that characterise Web 2.0.

    He even wrote the draft of the book online, garnering comments from all and sundry after each chapter.

    He doesn't examine any of the difficulties identified in the "Cult of the amateur" but the book really rushes you along in a breathless sprint through the delights that surround us and await us as Web 2.0 develops.

    He sounds like an old man who is genuinely captivated by social software and social websites but who is worried that if he voices any criticism he will be seen as unhip, and lose the "cool" he's accumulated by detailing this brave new world.

    So one book is critical; and the other is from an enthusiast - you judge their arguments.

  61. Hard Books by stayathomejobs · · Score: 1

    It seems like anything that is printed in hard form is behind the bubble these days