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Microsoft Bets Big On Computing For the Car
dstates writes "The automobile industry may be hurting, but Microsoft is doubling down and making a massive new investment in its automotive business unit. Microsoft already works closely with a number of car companies and will enhance that effort with more people and more resources. Sync developed as a collaboration with Ford Motor Co. allows motorists to control their cell phones, music players and navigation systems with voice commands while they drive. Microsoft is also making 'Live Search' technology available to automakers to develop in-car search and navigation. Detroit native Tom Philips, the new unit leader said 'There are a lot of technologies that are two to three years out that are going to provide even more connectivity and innovation. There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Whats the state of navigation for linux in car systems? It'd be fun to homebrew one, but without decent navigation it's not a whole lot of use.
I'm sure i should have some BSOD joke in here too, but i haven't had my coffee yet
o goodie bsod as I am braking.
On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
"Well, I don't know, officer, I was driving an' then this animorphic paperclip appeared on the road and I swerved to hit him but instead he was just super 'mposed on the windshield so all I did was hit this here telerphone pole!"
The major navigation units like TomTom run embedded linux.
It's going to be as big as tablet computing, I tell you!
As someone who drives a 8.5 year old car (and is still happy with it) without a board-computer like the ones Microsoft sells, I still don't see the need for one. I do have a "board-computer" but it only calculates l/100km, driven time, and stuff like that. I don't think it uses an operating system.
In-car entertainment is something I cannot comprehend. If you've got kids they most certainly have a Gameboy or something like that, or they can read a book. That's what I did when I was a kid doing long trips (Okay, it was a Game Gear, but that's not a big difference). On short trips enterainment systems shouldn't even be turned on.
The only value I could see is a GPS system, but that really doesn't have to be based on Windows. Even then, in the 14 years I drive, I have rarely felt the need for a GPS. The few times I was in a foreign city without a map (and if you got there, you make sure you actually have a map *grin*).
Anyway, I know this is just my opinion and my needs are surely not reflected in what "Joe Driver" needs. Now get off my lawn!
I want to retain control of my car, thank you very much, and adding a bunch of so called 'var computers' is not going to do that.
Keep your grubby mitts off my vehicle.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Deploy airbag? [Cancel | Allow]
Even if the "car" as we know it is disappearing, Microsoft's work should transfer over nicely to whatever replaces it. I doubt there's much about Microsoft's system that assumes an internal combustion engine. If the car should die, the need for people to get from A to B does not die with it. Maybe more people will be taking electric cars, or trains, or some weird sci-fi individual self-navigating capsules in a mesh of tubes. In all of those cases, Microsoft's software would still have a place. Seems like a promising investment to me.
fuck Mr Coffee, i want Mr Fusion!!!
There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Good. I want that disconnect when people are driving half-ton pieces of metal that could kill someone. You think cell phones are distracting? Jus' picture someone trying to reply to a flamewar... in rush hour...
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
I am sorry - I just felt strangely compelled. It was kinda like the clutch in a car - i was pressed into doing it. or depressed. o i dunno
On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
Before anyone is going to post the story about Bill Gates and the director of GM about cars crashing 3 times a day: it never happened...
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
.
Probably because when people are in their cars they are driving around large, heavy, and potentially lethal, vehicles. Now Microsoft wants those people to be distracted by unreliable Microsoft software.
Finally, now the term "speed-hacking" can be applied outside the context of video games!
Sorry, I'd never buy a car with a MS computer in it. Call me bigoted or whatever. I just won't.
There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.
I have a novel idea: maybe we should focus on DRIVING while we're in the car.
>There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Yes. My car doesn't suddenly quit for no reason.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I was late today, My car gave me the red ring of death this morning. I called it in, and they tried to charge me 100 dollars to read the error code that a headlight is bad.
Are you saying that all new Fords will be turd colored? :P
Skimming the article, it seems that MS is trying to integrate their "Live Search" into their entertainment and information features of current systems. Sounds like they are trying to beat out Google in this area. While cars these days do have navigation and search features, the information they carry is only as new as the optical discs that they carry. Yearly updates and about $300 is about the norm for new updates.
Personally, I think something like iPhone integration would be more interesting. That way you can integrate mobile phone services too.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
...the first blue windscreen of death. Literally.
['windscreen' is what you across the pond call the 'windshield']
Is anyone else homicidally enraged by the new "adaptive volume control" that seems to be standard in new cars these days? Speed up, the radio gets louder, slow down the radio gets quieter.
I've driven in some cars where it's semi-bearable...I don't quite notice it for a while because it's gradual. And I've driven in others where the volume goes up and down like a cracked out kangaroo to the point where I end up having to stomp on the brakes, whip off the road and punch the radio until it stops.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
PREDICTION: Microsoft is rehashing old failed attempts again...
They did this in the 90's with the autoPC platform. it was an utter failure.
Just like how tablet pc's have been a failure to the masses over and over and over again..
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Navigational updates are a good thing...That stuff is only as useful as it is current, but it has big brother possibilities which I don't particularly care for, and I'm pretty mellow (for a geek) about potential violations of my privacy.
Microsoft especially has proven repeatedly that they are more than willing to sell out their customers...In my mind that's the real issue, above and beyond issues of utility or stability. Do you want them to have that kind of access to your life?
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
"Detroit native Tom Philips, the new unit leader said 'There are a lot of technologies that are two to three years out that are going to provide even more connectivity and innovation. There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Maybe, just maybe, the reason for the disconnect is that we're in a giant heap of metal hurtling at 70mph amid a bevy of other giant heaps of metal.
I think we should preserve that disconnect.
Actually, it turns out that these things (automotive entertainment systems0 actually have to be extremely reliable. Windows Embedded for Automotive has to be way more robust than regular Windows Embedded, for example. The pressure comes from the car manufacturers themselves, not the public.
The reason is quite simply, if the system fails within the warranty period, it's a warranty repair. Warranty repairs are expensive, especially with prices dropping and margins thinning. Like the technology sector, a profit or a loss can be made simply by the amount of warranty work that needs to be done. (As a side benefit, people perceive a car that has to be in the shop to be of way lower quality, even if it's in the shop because the entertainment system keeps dying). Anyone remember the classic VW radio with the anti-theft that keeps going off on the slightest electrical spike?
Here's the other nasty thing about automotive systems - the parts must be available for years after the model is discontinued. With external DVD players, aftermarket stereos/DVD players, etc., it's not a big deal since the owner can buy a new one. But that new in-dash GPS/radio/climate control/etc. unit, if it breaks within that time period, it has to be replaced. (Think about all those 5 year "bumper to bumper" warranties, too). Given how fast technology moves, it's actually quite difficult to design a system and still have parts available for it 5-10 years after it was made.
You could:
CANCEL or ALLOW?
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
I own a car computer in my car (and have for the past 2 1/2 years) with a touch screen monitor custom built into the dash. After two years of running this, I can honestly say that the most stable part of this was the operating system (Windows XP). I had trouble with the hardware, had a hard drive die, had many issues with the software powering it, but the one thing that did not crap out on me was the operating system. For those of you questioning why a car entertainment system, the answer is simple: thousands of songs (30 gigs worth) at your finger tips, an easy to use display that actually displays, searches, and catalogs your music while displaying the album art is unbeatable when you have a commute or take a long journey somewhere. From a music standpoint alone, it is completely worth it. Also being of the male persuasion, I would prefer not to ask for directions and find it quite cryptic when most people give directions, so having my built in pc-based navigation unit is priceless as well. As far as pictures and movies in your car, who cares? It's like having pictures and movies in your IPOD - for what?? That part is pointless, but I guess it is nice to have. I guess for all of you that have harsh comments either wish you had a car pc, but could never afford it, or just have some juvenile MS flaming fetish. :)
Microsoft, Automobile Division: giving new meaning to "Blue Screen of Death."
Enjoy your ride.
SSC
I have a tom tom, and love having gps when I travel. Being a technical astute person. What I would like to have is a system, with gps (1), music (mp3) (2) and radio control (software radio) (3), maybe cell phone control (4), all tied with wireless so when I pull up to my house I could sync all items, gps maps, music, os updates etc.
Now that I think of it, I guess just a nice little low power pc running of a 4 gig card with no hard drive to be the firewall and manage the wireless connections to the car and a little hub would allow everything that is existing to be tied together.
Actually it seems to be closer to OnStar by GM's Information/Convenience Services or Virtual Adviser options than Apple. I'm guessing the Zune tie in will be closer to what Apple has done with HD radio devices to allow for "tagging" content for later purchase.
It looks like you're travelling down the freeway.
Would you like help?
- Get Help Driving down the freeway.
- Continue Driving without help.
- Don't show this tip again.
Frankly I was surprised that Microsoft never entered the car GPS market. They have their excellent MapPoint product; if they made a car GPS that was built off of that technology and had integration with the pc product (an interface to load planned routes from the PC version from a USB stick or something would be nice) then I personally think that would be pretty awesome.
There's no disk in a EECIV, just a nice reliable ROM. Without microprocessors and electric fuel injectors you'ld be stuck with an analog open loop system (carburetor).
Uhh, I liked carburetors, thanks. In fact, I liked it when I could tune up my car myself without a bunch of digital instruments. When I was younger I enjoyed working on my car... I spent many weekends with the hood open. The parent poster is right in that the computerization of cars has taken some of the fun out of working on them. We always seem to equate analog with bad here, but I liked it when cars were simpler to build and maintain, thanks.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Comment removed based on user account deletion
if control interfaces and APIs would become standardized.
Everything is designed for i$foo. My head unit can read mp3s from a flash drive, but it doesn't do it optimally unless you use their software to put stuff on there (kenwood).
I also own a sansa, which I love. It was $100, so I don't care if I break it of lose it (the point of a portable player that doesn't do anything else). And I don't need anything special to put the music on it. It's just a mass storage device to my OS (which isn't OSX or M$).
It sure would be nice if I could just plug my sansa into my car, or anybody else's, and queue up the music. I'm sure apple's patenting makes this a dream. Instead, I have things in 3 locations: the home server, the sansa, and the hard drive that stays in the car, and if I want to control something out of the box, the only option is Apple hardware, which doesn't easily interface with anything else that I use computer-wise.
Oh great! Not only do I have to wait for my TV, my cell phone, my set-top box, and even my scope to boot up, now I'll have to wait for my CAR TOO??? Used to, all you had to do when buying a new car was to kick the tires and take it for a test drive. Now we'll have to benchmark it before making a decision.
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
When I saw "brick" and "'stang" in the same sentence, I thought you were going to talk about its handling characteristics...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=etvaHh244Ok
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Actually, it turns out that these things (automotive entertainment systems0 actually have to be extremely reliable. Windows Embedded for Automotive has to be way more robust than regular Windows Embedded, for example. The pressure comes from the car manufacturers themselves, not the public.
We wish... I have spent many happy hours in QANTAS business class watching the Windows CE based in-flight entertainment system rebooting, and rebooting, and rebooting - You got to see a Windows CE error screen for minutes at a time. The last occasion it it happened to us, they gave us refunds/gifts to the value of $700 as the system was out all the way from Singapore to Frankfurt. One of the nice cabin crew told me that it happened regularly, and that the experience had put her off Windows - She had just bought an Apple Mac. Anecdotal, but still frightening.
I saw something similar on a Virgin flight - only their in-flight entertainment system was Linux based. The kernel kept on booting, failing to start anything useful, giving up and rebooting.
From what I could tell, it looked like there was some sort of corruption to the root fs and the designers had failed to account for the possibility that power to non-essential systems (eg. entertainment) might be cut at awkward moments. Which we all know NEVER happens on an aircraft.
Bottom line: I don't care whether it's Windows Embedded, Linux or what, if the system isn't designed and implemented properly it's going to screw up.
Personally i'd prefer not to have digital convergence...
What i want instead, are the separate systems...
Multiple separate units that each do one function well and work together, allowing me to replace one piece at a time.
I have a tape deck that is 20+ years old, a turntable that is 20+ years old (i have very little media to play on either of them anymore), a radio that's a year old (digital), a radio thats 10+ years old (analog), a cd player thats about 10 years old, a streaming media player that's a couple of months old, several games consoles etc etc, all connected through an amplifier that's around 5 years old, and a TV that's less than 1 year.
I replace it piece by piece as i need new stuff, i have very few tapes or vinyl records, but i do listen to them occasionally so buying a modern all in one system that didn't support them at all would be a pain. Also as stuff gets replaced it's repurposed, my old TV is in the bedroom for instance.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Maybe you've got a more basic or an older unit or something but AFAIK most half-decent modern in-car GPS systems support bluetooth phone coupling and can play MP3s from an SD card. Only thing that might be missing is the radio.
Cars manufactured after 1996 have OBD-II (On Board Diagnostics). You can get a code reader/clearer for about $130 IIRC. Your local auto parts or tool store can get you more info. There are more exotic solutions out there that will do more if you're willing to spend big$, but I don't use those.
Here's a link to a basic tool similar to the one I use: http://www.autozone.com/R,904174/store,2366/shopping/accessoryProductDetail.htm
Also, a lot of auto parts stores will read your codes for free.
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
...From past mistakes about how long a car is actually on the road compared to how long a computer is considered usable. We look back and laugh at cars that came with cassette tapes, 8-tracks, and god forbid, vinyl record players but they were innovative and useful for their times.
If M$ is serious about getting into this business, they need to take a lot of notes from the auto industry on longevity and modular design that makes the core easily replaceable as technology shifts. While full integration is great initially, it becomes cumbersome later when the changes come.
I can cite one example where Ford dropped the ball in in-car entertainment design. 1990's and early 2000's Taurus (and other models) had this full integrated, non-standard audio system that encompassed the entire center console, and when the buyer was sick of hearing the crappy audio system it was an absolute nightmare to back it out and put a standard DIN headunit in the car - not to mention the expensive and ugly aftermarket dash kit that was required.
Now, on the other hand, the Sync technology in the new Fords is very well done. Being a jaded anti-M$ person, I didn't want to like it, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well done it is. Sure, it has its flakiness, and the display on Ford's head units are dismal 1980's technology, but the phone integration, voice prompts, and usability make that pain go away. While it could use some improvement, I have to give hats off to Ford & M$ for a well done execution.
Harbor Freight sells OBD-II readers for $40 and have several other more expensive models as well. They read and clear diag messages.
You can build your own based on a pic microcontroller; this will interface to a laptop and give you real-time access to all the OBD-II information. There are opensource software packages for Windows and Linux that allow you to build virtual instrumentation if you want to see what your oil pressure or water temperature are, rather than just relying on the dashboard disaster lights, or see what your oxygen sensor or mass air flow sensor are reading, if you're really curious.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
I bought a NavMan which uses Windows and which is a pile of wank. They seriously expect me to trust my life even more on this rubbish? Questions: 1) Where do I get an open source car? 2) Do I have to connect it to the Internet for Patch Tuesday if I use Windows? 3) Who will be the first to die in a card because of a BSOD? 4) Will there be a "Clippy" to ask me that "I appear to be driving"?