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Genetic Glitch May Prevent Kids From Learning From Their Mistakes
jamie pointed out an interesting piece being featured in Newsweek that claims a "genetic glitch" may prevent some kids from learning from their mistakes to the same degree as others. "If there is one thing experts on child development agree on, it is that kids learn best when they are allowed to make mistakes and feel the consequences. So Mom and Dad hold back as their toddler tries again and again to cram a round peg into a square hole. [...] But not, it seems, all kids. In about 30 percent, the coils of their DNA carry a glitch, one that leaves their brains with few dopamine receptors, molecules that act as docking ports for one of the neurochemicals that carry our thoughts and emotions. A paucity of dopamine receptors is linked to an inability to avoid self-destructive behavior such as illicit drug use. But the effects spill beyond such extremes. Children with the genetic variant are unable to learn from mistakes. No matter how many tests they blow by partying the night before, the lesson just doesn't sink in."
Let's party like we don't know any better!
Is this humanity's insurance policy against catastrophic changes, where the old rules don't apply?
After 25 years of research the leading scientist discovered he also had the gene.
lol: You see no door there!
We actually have a special set of receptors called legislons that determine if a molecule is illicit vs one approved by congress.
Illicit does not necessarily mean self-destructive. It is a matter of law, not health.
I know I fail to learn from my mistakes.
I forget to take out the trash.
I'm told about it.
I forget again.
What's my problem??
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
Why Bart Simpson kept trying to reach the electrified candy, while Lisa's hamster did not. The whole "bzzt...ow...bzzt...ow" sequence is stuck in my head.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
Kinda like the Libertarians? (if they ever got a chance damnit)
from the bzzt-ow-bzzt-ow-bzzzzzzzzzt-ooooooow dept.
http://xkcd.com/242/
Kinda like voters?
Sounds like ADD to me. I've got ADD and although I'm very intelligent, I haven't been an 'A' student since freshman year of high school. I can learn things well, but I continue the same behaviors that prevent me from succeeding, such as reading Slashdot (among other things) instead of doing homework.
I took Adderall in school, which I believe stimulates dopamine and does indeed make it easier to do my homework. Also makes me test positive for meth, tell jokes that don't make sense to anyone but myself, and sleep 5 hours per night.
I was going somewhere with this post, but as usual, I got distracted. Anyway, I hope this perspective can inform someone or at least make the other folks with ADD feel like they're not alone, even when so many people don't even think ADD is real.
You can cure those siccups if you drink a glass of water with your head upside down.
So /. editors don't learn from publishing dupes?
OK, maybe this isn't a dupe (diffrent researchers, maybe?), but I don't want to bring the groupthink's wrath down on me by RTFA.
I'm not surprised anymore at articles such as this one. Our DNA is basically a blue print of who we are. Our limitations, strengths, etc...
While we are also a product of our environment, it's interesting to see how as we move forward in the research of the human body and mind, many of our issues which we would have deemed "environmental", are actually genetic.
So, the question is, can we fix this? And then, if we fix it, are we a different person? or just better? Is our individuality really based on our DNA? what does that make of the human soul? Not a religious person by nature, I do think there is a God, but, I believe that humanity has the right and the responsibility to learn as much of itself as possible, in order to survive and to improve as a species.
To me, an interesting question that raises is about our soul, such as, is our individuality link to it? or not? Having read and seen documentaries that a person on their death bed loses weight as they migrate from life to death. Many believe that our "soul" has a quantitive weight.
Who are we? If one could fix a learning disability by "re-wiring" our DNA, then, what's this "soul" thing to us?
Could it be that really, our version of heaven is actually our ability to learn about ourselves to the point where we can engineer our own immortality?
After all, for many, heaven is a blissful eternity of life after death. That's what many religions sell in their brochure :P (I said MANY, not all)
Is our goal to achieve long life by understanding our DNA? is this really what our reward will be? our quest for immortality lies within our reach in research and understanding of ourselves and what makes us really tick? :)
This thread may sound off beat to the topic at hand, but, I personally think it that there is a link.
Being able to fix a person by DNA so that they can finally "learn" from their mistake, is a behavioral fix. Done using medical treatment. To me, this means that there could be a day where "Psychology" as we know it might actually end, and DNA fixes could actually be the cure to depression, etc...
Cheers!
I always hit submit before
I wonder if this person learnt from his mistake...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZZXslsLDLs&fmt=18
To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
But essentially flambait: illicit drug use is not always a self-destructive behavior. Some people find it very fulfilling and regard it as beneficial.
Using the topic to push a personal political opinion is flamebait. A reply which is exactly the opposite illustrates the irony of the argument, and thus is funny.
The next few people playing off of the original joke with their own variation are hoping to get caught up in a time-honoured slashdot tradition of karma-whoring threads.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm guessing there are many perfectly productive and successful adults out there who also have this "defect." Like ADD and OCD, which can morph into powerful creative and focusing skills as positive adult byproducts, I'm betting this one can manifest itself as otherwise helpful traits such as "never giving up", "persistence in the face of resistance", etc. "Once bitten, twice shy" probably isn't a meaningful phrase for them and they likely wouldn't suffer from a host of ordinary hangups that stymie many adults (who learned from mistakes in an ordinary fashion).
i\hbar\dot{\psi}=\hat{H}\psi
There are several studies available on "the Google" where you can find that genetically, we as a species are bound to obey the genetic code we are born with, whether that is good or bad. This is just another example. You'll see in my journal that the MWNN regarding atheists. This supports the atheist understanding of the world. We are born as we are, mostly accidental, or luck of the draw regarding genetics. There is no deity responsible for this. What a reprehensible thought that an all powerful and all knowing deity would do this to people?
As a hobby, I try to build small autonomous robots, and generally speaking most people believe that the human experience is the 100% value or perfect way of interacting with the world. What they forget, and what I like to call 'failure mode' is that we humans are anything but perfect: bad vision, autism, this story's problem, and many other failures. Ever bump into the wall in the dark? There is another failure.
We are far from perfect, hardly worthy of being called a creation of an all powerful being. Destructive behavior is what we excel at. Brilliant design, eh?
Back on topic: for the most part, we are finding genetic reasons for many problems with the human race. Even if they could all be corrected, I'm not sure it will improve our situation. I sometimes think that we are trying to save nature's discards. Amazing really. Apparently war fixes some of the overpopulation, or used to.
The answer to such problems is fantastically unimaginable. How do you fix the discards and keep population withing the realms of what the planet can support? China has taken a step in that direction and it has caused unimaginable hardships for their population; selling babies, hiding from the government, fear of things that are only natural.
So, what are we to do with things like this? What are we to do with people like this? Fix them, or abort them?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
It's interesting to find a brain mechanism for persistence versus adaptation, but not interesting to add an exaggerated normative claim. If at first you don't succeed, (1) Quit; (2) Try again; or (3) Split the difference and alter the plan. Different people favor different strategies. Pretty obvious and pretty benign, unless your objective is to get research funding "for the children".
Once we finish moderating these, we'll know which one of the parent posts didn't learn from their mistakes!
Whether it's a disability or not, I think we should seriously consider segregating the two populations and putting them in different classrooms. I bet that, to achieve their best, they'll need radically different teaching methods.
Unless your business gets big fat government subsidies. Then you'd be Iowa.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
I would much rather read the original article than an oversimplified Newsweek summary.
I don't care if daddy beat you or if you've got bad genes. be a douche and you should face the music.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
there would be nothing on YouTube but cats.
Also, survival traits in some cases may benefit the species more than the indivdual - some of us are needed to find out what new things can or can't be done. Some of us are needed to hold the beer.
(is there nothing that the Simpsons don't have an appropriate quote for?)
Scientology and abortion.
Scientology because Nancy Cartwright (the voice of Bart) is a die-hard scientologist, and (if you believe the rumors) has threatened to quit if they poke fun at it. The closest they got was "The Joy of Sect" (wherein most of Springfield joins a cult.)
Don't know the reason behind the abortion stance. Maybe because it's too hard to joke about tastefully.
Kinda like those guys who keep finding genetic links to damn near everything?
I think your comment is right-on to the topic. This finding, if it bears out, kind of blows the whole "sin" doctrine right out of the water, doesn't it? If some people cannot help but repeat their mistakes, how can they ever be "saved" from sin?
George Bush syndrome.
How do you know that for a fact? Have you talked to the version of yourself that didn't take LSD and MDMA recently?
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I know it's tacky to reply to your own posts, but I wanted to add something here. According to the article:
In about 30 percent, the coils of their DNA carry a glitch...
One of the strongest and most counterintuitive findings in this nascent field is that children with a sweet temperament, which is under strong genetic control, are the least likely to emulate their parents and absorb the lessons they teach, while fussy kids are the most likely to do so.
DNA variants can protect children from bad parenting.
Both views--that everything is genetic and that parents can transform a child like a lump of clay--are as wrong as wrong can be.
I think these finding have serious implications for how we look at religion, and how it can or cannot work effectively to shape people's behaviour from the time they are children to adults. Some people -- at least 30 per cent -- are hard-wired to find it difficult to deal with "sin" without feeling guilt, shame, failure and worthlessness. They will either end with serious psychological and spiritual hang-ups, or will reject religion altogether.
You'll have to pardon me for not discussing the details of some highly personal experiences on Slashdot. In the particular instance I'm thinking of, about two years ago I pretty much got a personal guided tour of my own unconscious with respect to a certain issue that was causing me a great deal of pain at the time, and it allowed me to go ahead and make some really drastic changes over the next few months and pretty much completely remake my life. That isn't something that could have happened without a great deal more of pain and struggle otherwise, and probably without such successful results otherwise. Knowing all the details of it, the notion that it would have turned out anything like as well without suitable chemical assistance is just too silly to merit consideration.
Those next few people are always followed by some karma whore looking for that Insightful mod for pointing out those next few people.
1&1 - Cheap domain and web hosting.
Don't know the reason behind the abortion stance. Maybe because it's too hard to joke about tastefully.
Thats where South Park comes in.
The major difference between the US and other "first world" societies is that US politics very rarely includes the concept of "good will towards all". The notion, that "what is good for my neighbor is good for me" simply doesn't fly around here. Electing politicians on merit implies that we'd be electing people to serve the *public* trust, rather than our own individual interests.
Granted, I"m painting things with a broad brush, but that's pretty much the impression I get.
Why is it this way? I honestly don't know. It could have something to do with our frontiersman roots being so recent in our country's past - that we're still one nation of individual people, rather than an individual nation of one people.
One step closer to being able to rationalize how Bush got re-elected.
That's not entirely true. There was an abortion joke in Treehouse of Horror VII in the short "Citizen Kang." Kang and Kodos assume the identities of presidential candidates Bill Clinton and Bob Dole. While at a rally, under the guise of Bob Dole, the alien proclaims "Abortions for everyone!" which is met with boos from the crowd, he then proclaims "Abortions for no one!" which is also met with boos from the crowd. Finally he proclaims something along the lines of "Abortions for some, tiny American flags for others!" and is met with loud applause.
now now if you ran a business you'd be a libertarian too.
Unless you live in a country where the current government is actually able to do it's job (maintaining an environment and a society where you can run your business) well enough for a business owner to not want to get rid most of it, of course...
You are very insightful.
I think that the problem has to do with FUD. There was a PBS documentary about the divisive nature of US politics. Many towns/cities which were typically neutral made sudden shifts. Some became Republican. Some become Democrat. In all cases, they found that there was a lot of FUD being spread around. I'm just paraphrasing. That's the message that I got from it.
The bottom line is that we have more in common with each other, than we do with the politicians that supposedly match our views. Yet, we turn to those polticians and get betrayed time and time again.
testing out my trending skills
"A couple years back"? His ratings have been in the low thirties for years.
When there's a red button and a blue button and they both give electric shocks, maybe the stay-at-homes are the most intelligent of them all. oh yeah and there's a green button but it's in the ceiling and nothing happens when you stretch for it.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Those next few people are always followed by some karma whore looking for that Insightful mod for pointing out those next few people.
Immidiately followed by some smartass karma whore that explains how this leads to recursive explainations of the parent post.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Every book on this area I've ever read says that the part of the brain that is responsible for cause/effect doesn't wire up properly until you're 18 and that's why teens/kids do dumb stuff. Has that one been thrown out as wrong now?
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
There is no cake to eat with it.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
TBH, I fail to see why that's a bad thing anyway, assuming that our goal _is_ to give all people the best education we can. (No kid left behind, etc.) As opposed to, say, a some fucked-up kind of show-business to make under-achieving parents of under-achieving children feel better.
Well, or let me better qualify "bad thing." I don't think it's worse than putting everyone in the same classroom and then dumbing it down to the level where even the... _special_ kid on the right can feel special for being able to draw doodles like everyone else.
Most (all?) of Europe isn't afraid to separate kids by skill level, at least at high school level. It wasn't just the USSR and co. I don't think it caused anything bad, so far. Even the USSR and its satellite states, for all we see their economical failures, look around you how many of your co-workers come from their universities. They managed to produce some well educated people. (Then they failed to use them, but that's a different failure.)
Splitting by learning method actually seems to me like the logical next step. Instead of dumping someone into the lowest bracket just because their wiring doesn't fit the teachers' style, maybe there is some other way of teaching them stuff.
And before it sounds like either a nerd-elitist opinion or conversely some kind of plot to isolate and oppress nerds, remember that ADHD and Aspergers' aren't all roses even as educational prospects go. For each ADHD kid that's found his niche with his home computer, there are a couple who just flunk because they just simply get bored to tears in classroom. For each Aspie who's become some great programmer or physicist, there'll be one or two who just got bullied around and discouraged, and maybe backed into some useless interest (as an Aspie you _will_ have a very narrow focus of interest) like remembering all the football scores since 1900. Or flunked because their narrow interests didn't include geography and victorian english literature and God knows what else. Maybe we can guide them down a better path.
Even for neurotypicals, well, maybe they can do better if they don't have to compete with the local autism-spectrum disorder kid. Or at least find a better passtime than taunting the nerd.
It won't be a neat 70/30 split, duly noted, but it will be a good start anyway. We don't build all tools the exact same way, we don't raise all animals the same way (raising chicken can be slightly different from raising sheep), we don't plant all plants the same way, so, umm, I fail to see why we must teach everyone the same way _if_ we have enough proof that their brains do work differently.
It will be more expensive, though. That much is obvious.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
>.. or explainming the joke.
Or pointing out spelling and grammar errors.
Everyone wants everyone else to set aside their personal feelings and agree with them, but no one wants to do that with their own.
This is my sig.
I also read an article about the dangers of making sweeping generalizations.
I do not have a prohibitionist agenda.
I have severe doubts about everyone's (so I am explicitly including myself here) ability to make sense of subjective experiences in a reasonable way, and to report, to themselves, their experiences in an accurate and honest way. There is no reasonable way to separate the hallucinogenic experience from the later freedom that having a 'reason' to explain changes you elected to make.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I congratulate you on your sucessful journey to the center of your mind. I've taken such journeys, although it was long before you were born (I clicked your homepage, you look like one of my daughter's friends).
Don't go there too often, though. I have friends who stepped over the edge, never to return. I haven't seen my friend Dave for a long time, he's a great guitar player but the voices in his head won't let him leave his mother's house (he is probably older than your parents).
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest