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What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down?

jbrodkin writes "Can you trust your data to the cloud? For users of an online storage service called The Linkup, formerly known as MediaMax, the answer turned out to be a resounding 'no.' The Linkup shut down on Aug. 8 after losing access to as much as 45% of its customers' data. 'When we looked at some individual accounts, some people didn't have any files, and some people had all their files,' The Linkup CeO Steve Iverson admits. None of the affected users will get their lost data back. Iverson called it a 'worst-case scenario.'"

203 comments

  1. Backups, backups, backups! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Like anything else, including local technology, the key is to create a backup strategy. The cloud creates special problems for performing and managing backukps, so you need to understand your chosen compute or storage cluster provider's options, as well as other options specific for your application in regards to backups.

    1. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by pha7boy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. One backup to rule them all is not going to work. And for mission critical files would have to be backed up several times.

      --
      -- All this knowledge is giving me a raging brainer.
    2. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by tchiseen · · Score: 1

      The difference between good companies and poor companies is their ability to avoid "worst-case scenarios". This is all down to intelligent management of their technologies.

    3. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No kidding. Why do you think I said 'backups' three times in the subject line? ;) That's what I mean by a 'backup strategy' -- backup strategies, which are sometimes called 'disaster recovery plans', though that's really a bigger plan that includes a backup strategy, include making multiple redundant backups, offsite storage of backups, considerations for multiple different media, etc. There are several 'best practices', but the best strategy is going to be different for each company or department and often even for each application.

      The best thing to do is to examine what kind(s) of data there is in the set, how large that data set is, how often that data gets updated, how often it needs to be accessed, and what are the potential costs for losing a day's, week's, month's, year's etc. worth of that data. That will point you in the direction as to frequency of backups, types of backups, etc.

      Offsite backups are essential for any data requiring backup.

    4. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Firehed · · Score: 2, Informative

      True, but the cloud (at least in theory) also gives you ubiquitous access to your data from any location - when it's online, of course. I think it's best to treat it as the centralized synchronization point that you work from day-to-day (think: email, calendar) so that it's consistent across your devices, but have at least one system that YOU control periodically backing up that data.

      The issues with services like Gmail and Amazon S3 tend not to be with hardware failures, but with software problems. Recent S3 outages as well as yesterday's brief Gmail outage weren't caused by a load balancer exploding, but by something going screwy in software. Theoretically no data will be erased if they've got permissions set right, but that doesn't mean you're important enough to get a human working on the database to fix YOUR account.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    5. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by NorbrookC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's now the assumption (and we all know what assume means) that if it's "in the cloud," the data is safe or backed up somewhere. Servers fail. Backups fail. Software glitches happen. Disasters - natural or other - happen. Even if you're lucky and you don't lose the actual data, losing access to it is the same - and for an extended length of time, it can be expensive.

      No matter how much we preach to the choir, it seems that most people simply don't get the message.

    6. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Ihmhi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Redundancy, redundancy, off-site redundancy

      There, fixed that for you. Backups aren't worth a damn if the building is blown up.

      Hm, there seems to be a pizza van outside my residence...

    7. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by g0dsp33d · · Score: 1

      I agree. I don't know what the service contract stated, but for online storage, I'd want my critical data mirrored in at least at two locations.

      Essentially, if any claims were made guaranteeing the data, they should sue. If there was not a guarantee, than they shouldn't have expected it to be safe as the only copy of their data.

      --
      lol: You see no door there!
    8. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's now the assumption (and we all know what assume means) that if it's "in the cloud," the data is safe or backed up somewhere

      These must be the same people that assume that because someone has a fancy degree, they know what they're talking about.

    9. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by daeg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't forget to have a RESTORE strategy in place, too, and one that can be executed by others. Redundant backups don't do any good if you don't know how to restore from them, and know approximately how long it will take to restore.

      We set up a test system identical to a few of our servers and had non-IT people execute the restoration plan for the core applications/data our business needs. There were a few flaws in the plan but it was a GREAT learning tool.

    10. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by faloi · · Score: 1

      It's like all other tools. If you only have one, when there's an emergency you'll probably have zero.

      --
      "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
    11. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Funny

      There, fixed that for you. Backups aren't worth a damn if the building is blown up.

      Yeah, I already thought of that. *smug* I have a script that backs up all my files from our servers in WTC1 to our servers in WTC2. What are the odds we could lose both sets of servers?

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    12. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by laejoh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, redundancy is the reason why I still have porn magazines hidden underneat the mattress! One backup to rule them all, and several magazines for the mission critical porn (don't ask!)

    13. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Umm, I'm pretty sure the cloud was supposed to be the backup... I'm just sayin'...

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    14. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by kcbrown · · Score: 1

      Redundancy, redundancy, off-planet redundancy

      There, fixed that for you. Backups aren't worth a damn if the building is blown up.

      There, fixed that for you. Backups aren't worth a damn if the planet gets blown up by space aliens.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    15. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      Urgh, "cloud" this, "cloud" that.. I really hope this is turns out to be a fad buzzword.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    16. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is why I always thought that cloud computing based on servers would be disastrous. What if the server goes down? Well, here's a case in point. You lose everything.

      I proposed an idea like a P2P backup. Say you have some 20 GB you want to back up. You make 20 GB available on your system, and fire up a P2P backup program. You partner with people who want to backup also, trade backup space, and voila! You have a distributed backup system. It's all encrypted, so you can't get into other people's stuff on your system, and vice-versa. Periodically, the app checks to make sure that all your backup partners are available. If not, it starts negotiating a backup with a new partner.

      Of course, you don't want to lose your stuff to a single host going down, you would have a ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 to make sure that you have high availability.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    17. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by nmg196 · · Score: 3, Informative

      That idea is already quite prevalent and many programs such as BuddyBackup already use this idea.

    18. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by grassy_knoll · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "No matter how much we preach to the choir, it seems that most managers simply don't want to pay for it."

      Fixed that for you.

    19. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Dragonslicer · · Score: 0

      Ugh, and the single-click moderation has finally bit me.

      And I can't think of anything useful to contribute either.

    20. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by bjk002 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "No kidding. Why do you think I said 'backups' three times in the subject line?"

      I think he was just backing up your statement!

      --
      Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
    21. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Dirtside · · Score: 1

      I imagine that if all the people who care about a piece of data are destroyed, then whether or not there are any existing copies is irrelevant :)

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    22. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Kent+Recal · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess you get what you pay for when you trust your data to a company that calls itself Nirvanix of all things... (the link to Nirvanix in the article is also very telling)

      On a more serious note:
      According to TFA (yes, I actually read it) they had 20000 paying customers, no less. How ridiculously stupid do you have to be to run a business based on storing data for other people and not putting a working backup strategy into place?!

      They should really be sue'd into oblivion for stupidity alone. In fact, they should be thrown behind bars and slapped with a big cluestick for the rest of their lives.

    23. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by mrdoogee · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally, I back up my data in an inverse parallel universe. Several parallel universes actually. One is a cowboy universe!

    24. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      Redundancy, redundancy, alternate-universe redundancy

      There, fixed that for you. Backups aren't worth a damn when the interspatial bypass comes through.

    25. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      According to TFA (yes, I actually read it) they had 20000 paying customers, no less. How ridiculously stupid do you have to be to run a business based on storing data for other people and not putting a working backup strategy into place?!

      I agree--I think it's ridiculous that the data is inaccessible. The FA is a little short on details, but my best understanding of it is that the data is actually there, but the pointers between the user accounts and the data are lost, so they have no idea which data belongs to whom.

      Taking a second look at the site in question, it does not look like they bill themselves out as a data backup provider like S3 or rsync.net, so maybe customers really should have assumed that their data was backed up? I had never heard of MediaMax before today, so I don't really know for sure what they ever provided.

      So maybe this isn't really news after all. If S3 or xdrive or something lost customer data, that would be big news.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    26. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by neonmonk · · Score: 1

      Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. One backup to rule them all is not going to work. And for mission critical files would have to be backed up several times.

    27. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by uniquename72 · · Score: 0

      Too soon!

    28. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I'm guessing someone doesn't have a fancy degree. ;-)

    29. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by rkanodia · · Score: 3, Funny

      I used to back up my data in the mustache-and-goatee universe, but it kept coming back with the Evil bit set.

    30. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Emb3rz · · Score: 1

      I would happily have modded you redundant, but then I backed up and realized that would be much too obvious. </snicker>

    31. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I used to back up my data in the mustache-and-goatee universe, but it kept coming back with the Evil bit set.

      *shudder*

      A mustachioed goatse is incomprehensibly terrifying.

      Now I'm going to have to set myself on fire to remove that image which has been branded into my skull.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    32. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      FWIW, I have a bachelor of science in information systems. Whether you consider that fancy or not is all relative.

      What I do know is that degreed people do not always know what they're talking about, even if they're talking about what they got their degree in. They're human like the rest of us. It is possible for your lawyer or your doctor or a computer scientist to be wrong. Really.

    33. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you want to worry about backing up the "Cloud"??? You lose about half of the added value of Cloud computing if you have to do your own backups. If I have to back up my cloud apps and cloud data locally I might as well fire up an Apache server and host my own apps and data.

    34. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Mean+Variance · · Score: 1

      I have this problem, maybe it's a prejudice, that when a company/website cannot even proofread its front page, the quality lacks elsewhere too. From the front page describing their software in big letters: "BuddyBackup is a free online backup utility which keeps your important files, photos and music safe by saving copies of them over the internet onto you [sic] friends, family and colleagues' computers, your buddies!"

    35. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Fat+Cow · · Score: 1

      Wuala is doing exactly this

      --
      stay frosty and alert
    36. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 1

      Actually, one of the key differences between good companies and poor companies is when there actually is a difference between "bad situation" and "worst-case scenario."

      I've worked for some where the two modes are "smooth operation" and "worst-case scenario."

      --
      Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
      www.fogbound.net
    37. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 1

      Not a bad idea.

      In the past, I've used Duplicity, which is a non-P2P analog of this. It does require more setup (and trust on the part of the space provider).

      --
      Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
      www.fogbound.net
    38. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I have a script that backs up all my files from our servers in WTC1 to our servers in WTC2. What are the odds we could lose both sets of servers?
      .

      setting asside any questions of bad taste....

      there is a real argument to be made here for "security through obscurity."

      for choosing the small town industrial site that the locals haven't given a thought to in thirty-five years.

    39. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Either that or blind luck. Fortunately, I had the latter. My Maxtor started clicking the click of death. The OS would vary it offline after about 30 minutes of use (from booting up). I bought a new drive and started migrating data. After 30 minutes, done. Shutdown. Wait 15 minutes, start up. Continue, but this time, manually cool the drive (direct a hand-held fan onto the drive). This time it lasted more than an hour -- more than enough time to move 49 Gigabytes from one dying hard disk to another brand new one via firewire (400Mb/s). Nothing got lost, everything went. About 30 minutes later, it 'clicked out' again. I don't know if its for good or not, but all I have to do is format it (if possible, to wipe my data, several times), and recycle it.

    40. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by rootooftheworld · · Score: 1

      Agree! Cheers!

      --
      I know full well that tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack
    41. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by Zwicky · · Score: 1

      Yes, but there's always some guy with a towel who was out that day and now needs access to that data and no-one is left to help.

      Worst. Case. Scenario.

      Ever.

      --
      "Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo
    42. Re:Backups, backups, backups! by grassy_knoll · · Score: 1

      As an aside, thanks for undoing your moderation rather than letting it slide.

  2. Obligatory by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 0

    I go on the internet within minutes, registering my disgust. Or not.

    --
    Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
  3. Not a new problem! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What do you do when your local computer shuts down? How about a server on your company intranet? The cloud is no different. Backups are your friend!

    1. Re:Not a new problem! by hcdejong · · Score: 1

      The cloud is no different.

      Yes and no. It rather depends on how you access the data. I still associate cloud computing with horrid, web-only interfaces. If you can mount the remote disk and have random access to the filesystem, backups get a lot easier.

    2. Re:Not a new problem! by jgtg32a · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Kinda funny when you think about it, the backups are stored locally and the working copies are stored far away.

    3. Re:Not a new problem! by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What do you do when your local computer shuts down? How about a server on your company intranet?

      Well with the former I can pull the hard drive and shove it in a new machine and be at least trying to recover my data inside of an hour. With the latter, the systems team could be doing the equivalent inside of a day (as the servers don't tend to be in the office).

      If my remote document storage/app server/whatever goes down, even transiently, there's nothing I can do until it comes back up (other than hope that it does come back up).

      So yes, backups are your friend, but the situation isn't quite the same.

    4. Re:Not a new problem! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Well with the former I can pull the hard drive and shove it in a new machine and be at least trying to recover my data inside of an hour. With the latter, the systems team could be doing the equivalent inside of a day (as the servers don't tend to be in the office).

      If my remote document storage/app server/whatever goes down, even transiently, there's nothing I can do until it comes back up (other than hope that it does come back up).

      So yes, backups are your friend, but the situation isn't quite the same.

      Maybe nothing you can do personally, but I would imagine the cloud's system team would be doing the same thing. Attempting by whatever means possible to recover the data. As cloud computing matures one would expect them to become the 'experts' in date reliability and uptime. Otherwise they won't have very much business.

    5. Re:Not a new problem! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which leads me to this question...why is the cloud not doing backups? The cloud provider should be backing up the data within the cloud. I had assumed (wrongfully it turns out) that one of the benefits of using a cloud was that your data was backed up in some distributed fashion. It turns out that doesn't seem to be the case.

    6. Re:Not a new problem! by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which leads me to this question...why is the cloud not doing backups? The cloud provider should be backing up the data within the cloud. I had assumed (wrongfully it turns out) that one of the benefits of using a cloud was that your data was backed up in some distributed fashion. It turns out that doesn't seem to be the case.

      That is what's happening, when the cloud is working properly. Google has a zillion servers for running Docs. Any one server dies, I don't even know about it because another steps in seamlessly.

      But what happens if the whole damn cloud dies? What happens if Google goes tits up, changes terms of service, whatever?

      At least for Docs, I still have the local viewer and can export from there.

      I'm thinking that the best concept for cloud computing in practical terms would be the route Google is going, a mix between smart and dumb terminals. The cloud is there to host the apps but if something breaks, work can still be performed on the local. Right now, if I lose internet access I can still work in my Docs but can only view on the spreadsheets. If these were shared docs, there's still sync issues. When everyone is online, individual edits are synced every few seconds so it's difficult to screw something up. With offline edits, two different people can edit the same segment and we end up with 'last change wins' rules. This is not so bad if it's not a shared document.

      Where this could become more problematic is if we're talking about database-heavy apps like say a CRM or accounting app. Naturally, it would be evil to try to cache everything locally. It would take smart programming to only cache what a person typically deals with. ACT had a laptop docking model where the laptop user could check out certain accounts which remained locked on the server and when the sales rep returned to the office, he could sync it back up. Even at that, ACT databases weren't ugly huge. Serious enterprise databases can get very large.

      Well, I suppose these are problems that businesses have been struggling with for ages. It sounds stupid to say you can't do any work because the internet went out but 20 years ago people were using dumb terminal apps over frame relay and they couldn't do anything when their line went down.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    7. Re:Not a new problem! by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      I had assumed (wrongfully it turns out) that one of the benefits of using a cloud was that your data was backed up in some distributed fashion. It turns out that doesn't seem to be the case.

      As a hosted-application provider, I can assure you that we have backups of backups, redundant to three different locations, never more than 24 hours old. Our recovery process is intrinsic to our day-to-day operation. (we use our failover hosting as a staging environment for public testing of new features, so that we KNOW that our data recovery works - it's tested every single day!)

      It's all automatic, so that nobody has to "do" it, and errors are reported to admins by email. (which are rare) We also have an "admin dashboard" that monitors our backups, online status, load average, service availability, etc. every 5 minutes so that in the case of a failing of any conceivable part of our primary hosting cluster, an admin gets a notice within a few minutes or so - rarely do we get a call about a failure that we don't already know about.

      I guess some "cloud computing" companies just don't take your data seriously, but it's certainly not par for the course.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    8. Re:Not a new problem! by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 1

      Often, just having backups is not enough if there's data corruption. When data gets corrupted, it may not be evident right away. Backing up corrupted and/or zero-length files is more common than you'd think.

      That's why versioning backups are a Good Thing.

      --
      Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
      www.fogbound.net
  4. Re:Fuck your God it is Satan who in trusts my soul by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1, Funny

    Psssst. Satanists worship a Christian deity. Pass it on.

  5. Backup, Storage by Cytlid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't believe this article. The number of places you store your data is directly related to the level of which it's important to you. People put all their data in once place then cry when it's gone? How is this new?

    Isn't this akin to dumping all you money into one stock then whining when it tanks?

    --
    FLR
    1. Re:Backup, Storage by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      That is true. Be responsible for your own backups. The cloud should be for convenience only, and you shouldn't expect it to always be available for the rest of your life, and at every minute of every day. That being said, I think that there could be a lot better solutions than most services seem to offer. I think the whole idea of cloud computing is flawed. I think a much better idea would be to tote all you data, and programs, and maybe even OS around on a USB key or USB Hard Drive (depending on your storage needs), and just plug that into any computer you come across. Boots up, completely customized to you. Backups can be stored on your home/work computer when you plug in your drive, and automatically synced up to a network backup if you are really paranoid. If you sync into a computer every day, the most you will lose will be one days worth of work. With the cloud, there are too many points of failure that could make you lose access to you data, and there's only one source of the data, so if you lose that source you are out of luck. With the system I described, even if you left your USB drive at home, you could still work off yesterdays image, and then resync when you brought the drive in the next day. If you had a fast enough internet connection, you could get all your stuff right off the network, if you forgot your drive, and wanted to access your stuff on a completely new computer.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:Backup, Storage by Firehed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't this akin to dumping all you money into one stock then whining when it tanks?

      Sure, but that doesn't stop people from doing exactly that.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    3. Re:Backup, Storage by TheJasper · · Score: 1

      not quite. It depends on what the service is offering. If they are guaranteeing redundant storage at multiple locations, protected against earthquake and volcanoes then you could reasonably expect the service to not crash irrecoverably.

      In any case they promise a storage for your data. I would imagine they also take responsibility for its loss. It's not like stock but more like putting things in storage.

      Of course with physical storage I would expect a ton of disclaimers or a mandatory insurance policy...

    4. Re:Backup, Storage by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Yes but playing the odds can result in 2% lower costs.

      Which means your products are 4% cheaper than a competitor who is using good backup strategies.
      So if the odds work in your favor, your competitor goes out of business before you get hit by something bad like this.

      Companies make these kind of hard choices all the time. And a lot of times, they successfully destroy their competitors and hear the lamentations of their women.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    5. Re:Backup, Storage by AndyCh · · Score: 1

      I have been using a service called Dropbox. This has 2GB of space for nothing but the point is that you define a single folder on all your machines as the Dropbox and it syncs everything between each device (and online). This means that I save a file on my laptop and it get sent to The Cloud, but also to my desktop computer. Best of both worlds, and the more computers you add, the more backups you have. Windows and Mac clients are available at the moment, and a Linux edition (currently Ubuntu/Nautilus) is in testing - I have a copy and it's truly lovely.

    6. Re:Backup, Storage by dintlu · · Score: 0

      Inversely, spreading your data around in different clouds and different mediums is directly related to the risk of having it stolen/compromised.

      People extend trust to corporations and business entities under the assumption that they have redundancies and contingencies that they don't have the time and money to arrange. Incidents like these just illustrate that no single entity can be trusted with data, but in 2008 I would expect a little better from the average corp.

    7. Re:Backup, Storage by Jorophose · · Score: 1

      As opposed to having your data served all up across the internet?

      "[...]Keep all your eggs in one basket, BUT GUARD THAT BASKET!"

    8. Re:Backup, Storage by linhares · · Score: 1

      People extend trust to corporations and business entities under the assumption that they have redundancies and contingencies that they don't have the time and money to arrange.

      In the case of dropbox, the redundancy is spread over your machines, plus their copy. So the only issue would be privacy.

      I don't think anyone uses getdropbox for truly sensitive data. That would be gargantually stupid. But I have gigabytes of files that dropbox syncs for me across 5+ machines, all invisibly, without a single touch of a button. No more of that shit trying to find in which computer you put that file. But if you're trusting them with highly sensitive data, well, I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors.

  6. What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Open the curtains and let the sunshine in, and water the garden.

    Oh, you mean the network... what kind of fool trusts his data with someone else?

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    1. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      what kind of fool trusts his data with someone else?

      That depends on who the someone else is, what their reputation is like, and, most importantly, how well they are insured.

    2. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by houghi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A fool and his data are soon to be parted.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by dnwq · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, you mean the network... what kind of fool trusts his data with someone else?

      I build my own hard drives and power supply too!

    4. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by DingerX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe the same kinds of fools who trust their money with someone else.

      Seriously, cloud storage is very useful as part of a backup strategy -- offsite, maintained to professional standards. It's even more useful for geographically-disperse projects (or when I need to get at my files on the move).

      But running a company that provides this sort of service is like running a bank. It's too bad Nirvanix thinks that this isn't their problem. Even if it's a screwup by an administer from the part of the old company that's now MediaMax/The Linkup, they are associated intimately with this loss. Making statements like "It's not our fault; Barney disassociated the files. That would never happen here," is just stupid. Even worse is "We have the data, but can't get at them, because to do so requires our client's front end." Guess what? It did happen here and you do have the data. It's charming that you guys managed to get into a contractual dispute over other people's data. Any contracting business now knows exactly what to expect from you.

      Now, what kind of fool trusts his data with clowns like these?

    5. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by phillymjs · · Score: 3, Funny

      You don't generate your own electricity, too? Slacker!

    6. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by CastrTroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Insurance means nothing. Once your data is lost, it is lost. Whether or not you get money out of them in compensation for the lost data is almost non-important. I would say that anything you lost would be completely non-producable, even if you had all the money in the world. A picture of your family on vacation, can't be reproduced. You can go on another vacation, but it won't be the same vacation. Any document you have typed out, could be typed out again, but it would be different each time. Unless you are talking about lost music files, in which case, you could download them again, but that's kind of the same as having a backup. Any data that's really important isn't going to reproducible.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    7. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I wonder what the TOS looks like for both companies? If they had 20,000 paying customers and they suddenly went {POOF}, you'd think that some of those customers might be annoyed enough about it to lawyer up.

      Without knowing any of the details (since both sides seem very cagey about the specifics), it looks more like a classic case of a company running out of money and closing up shop with scant notice to their clients. I can't imagine anyone trusting what's left of this venture with any data in the future.

      Cheers,

    8. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Insurance means nothing. Once your data is lost, it is lost. Whether or not you get money out of them in compensation for the lost data is almost non-important.

      Oh, I wouldn't say nothing. As I said above in the FP in this article, the key to this whole thing is a solid backup strategy. Companies can insure those backups just like you would insure a package. If your data is truly irreplaceable (most enterprise data is not completely irreplaceable), you will make sure your eggs aren't all in one basket.

      But in the end, insurance can provide some relief -- but not total relief -- from lost data.

    9. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Millions of em, by the looks of it. Although your comment did lead me to a nice modern-day proverb:
      "A fool and his data are soon parted."

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    10. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whether or not you get money out of them in compensation for the lost data is almost non-important

      Maybe for a home user, but usually for a business time actually does = money, and the two are relatively interchangeable. One day of work = $x, and insurance means a lot. And if you'd actually read TFA, you would know that one of the companies involved, Nirvanix, is a business oriented cloud-storage company.

      Maybe what you meant to say was "Insurance means nothing to me."

    11. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You made your own computer? Wow!

    12. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But it's not as simple as you put it. Let's say all my data was on the cloud. And I spend a 30 days writing up some code for a client. And I charged the client a rate of $1000 a day. Based on days*cost per day, I would get $30,000. But by losing all that data, I have lost much more. Maybe there was something in the contract (there should have been), stating that if I was late, I would have to lower the final price the client paid me, and not be paid for the additional days. What about all the other clients I promised work to, who's contracts I can't fulfill because I'm stuck having to rewrite the code I lost for the first client. Maybe that client no longer wants to deal with me for future projects. Maybe that client will tell a bunch of other potential clients how unreliable I am, and I will lose future clients. There's no easy way to figure out how much a single days work is actually worth. It seems in most cases, that the best "insurance" would be to create multiple backups, rather than trust your data to "the cloud".

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    13. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but who is the greater fool? The fool, or the fool who trusts him with his data?

    14. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 1

      Very good points, I see what you're saying, maybe both of our original comments were two sides of a false dichotomy; insurance doesn't mean nothing, but it certainly isn't everything.

    15. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by Adam+Hazzlebank · · Score: 1

      Any data that's really important isn't going to reproducible.

      If you've just spent a few years compute, finding a large prime, or decrypting a message, or finding the cure for cancer, producing data that would be of significant scientific importance, or save lives then it's important that you don't lose it. It may however be entirely reproducible (down to the bit level).

    16. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      I haven't bought a computer since 1987. You don't build your own?

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    17. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Electricity is not going to be resold by a hacker. You're comparing apples to coconuts.

      Anyone who trusts important data to the "cloud" is either a moron, gullible, or a kid living in a dorm room or their parent's basement.

    18. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by lag10 · · Score: 0

      You may have assembled your own computer, but you didn't "make" it.

    19. Re:What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down? by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, even if it's not reproducible it may still have a reasonable fixed cost. I mean, yes, I have family vacation pictures that can't be reproduced - but if someone offered me ten million bucks for them, I'd hand them over in a second, as I could go on vacations for life with that much money (with my family, natch.)

      And secondly, that money value has another important effect - it makes the company want to keep your data safe. If Bob's Storage Inc knows that losing my vacation photos will cost them *ten million bucks* they're going to keep those photos very, very, very safe . . . far safer than "we guarantee* that your data will be safe! *is not a guarantee"

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
  7. Well DUH! by houghi · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Rule number one is to be able to restore those backups.
    Rule number two is to have backups.
    Rule number three is if you forget rule number one and two, don't come crying.

    And yes, restoring data is more important then backing up.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:Well DUH! by spoonist · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, no, no, you have it all wrong.

      The first rule of backups is: "You do not talk about backups."

    2. Re:Well DUH! by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      2. ????
      3. Restore!

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:Well DUH! by linuxelf · · Score: 1

      "restoring data is more important then backing up" Now how are you going to restore data and THEN back it up??

      --
      - "That's just the kind of fuzzy-headed liberal thinking that leads to being eaten."
    4. Re:Well DUH! by canix · · Score: 1

      4. Profit!

    5. Re:Well DUH! by Chelloveck · · Score: 4, Funny

      I back up everything to /dev/null. Restoration is somebody else's job.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    6. Re:Well DUH! by Kamokazi · · Score: 1

      And yes, restoring data is more important then backing up.

      I understand what you're getting at, but it's not exactly true.

      Restoring data is equally as important as backing up. If you have no worthwhile data to restore, then it doesn't matter how efficiently you can restore. And likewise, if you have backed up data but can't restore, then what good is the backup? You have to make regular backups and test them regularly.

      --
      As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
    7. Re:Well DUH! by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      Rule 34 - If the backup exists, there will be pr0n of it.

      --
      Squirrel!
    8. Re:Well DUH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Restoring from /dev/random as worked for me so far.
      Working with the files is someone else's job.

    9. Re:Well DUH! by ThirdPrize · · Score: 1

      Is that what they mean by a "restoration comedy"?

      --
      I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
    10. Re:Well DUH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rule 34 - If the backup exists, there will be pr0n of it.

      Correction:

      Rule 34 - If the backup exists, there will be pr0n on it.

      Rule 35 is where you're headed. For example, take a spindle of DVD-Rs, grab onto the DVD-Rs by their edges, and repeatedly bounce them up and down on the spindle. Push a USB key through a 5.25" floppy disk. The spindle hole of a 5.25" disk, for that matter, is about the right size fo-OUCH! Never mind that, then. On to using the metallic bits of chilled 3.5" floppies to cover female nipples...

    11. Re:Well DUH! by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      I love the "redundant" moderation of parent.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    12. Re:Well DUH! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Only wimps back up to /dev/null. Real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it. ;-)

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    13. Re:Well DUH! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      A backup you have never restored isn't a backup.
      You have no idea how many times I have seen people make backups but never test them until they need them.

      What is worse is so many people are using external HDs as their ownly backup!
      Well if you drop it....

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    14. Re:Well DUH! by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 1

      reminds me of my favorite high-compression encryption technique. Just scan the plaintext in binary. Count the 1s and 0s. Save those two numbers.

      Of course, decryption is a very time-intensive process...

      --
      Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
      www.fogbound.net
    15. Re:Well DUH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I suppose the restoration is gonna be from /dev/zero?

  8. Cloud computing by bugeaterr · · Score: 1

    "Hey look in the clouds honey!
    It used to be MyNearlyCompletedNovel.doc,
    now it looks kind of like a dragon, wait, no,
    now its a UNICORN!"

    1. Re:Cloud computing by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      The cloud changed my novel into a picture of a newt!

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  9. Dont depend on only one backup by cybrchld · · Score: 1

    Have more than on type of backup, online is a good form of offsite backup but always have somthing else.

  10. The critical flaw by Nephroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The critical flaw of cloud computing is that you entrust your data to a third party. If you are at all concerned with privacy you will think cloud computing is a terrible idea.

    --
    Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
    1. Re:The critical flaw by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      There's this new fangled idea. Called encryption.

    2. Re:The critical flaw by bencoder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well that's what encryption is for. Seriously, I'd much much rather have my data encrypted on a remote server than have it unencrypted on my own computer, especially if I ever want to go to the US.
      In fact, even if it's encrypted locally, that means I'm even more likely to lose it at the border because if it's encrypted then surely I'm an evil terrorist come to take away all your freedoms that you enjoy, such as your protection from unreasonable search or seizure...

    3. Re:The critical flaw by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's preventing a service that does encryption/decryption on the client side? Other than the lack of desire from the providers I mean.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    4. Re:The critical flaw by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      This is a tractable problem if you use encryption and apply it to the files before they leave your system. Obviously you need to back up your encryption key via some other method, but that's not hard (USB keychain drives and solid-state memory cards are all good for this purpose, and can be easily stashed away in safe locations).

      The real problem with these online-storage services is lack of transparency. You rarely get much insight into how they're operated, and even then you typically only have their own assurances that they're following whatever procedure they describe to you. E.g., they claim to have a great datacenter with all sorts of redundancy, and back everything up to tape twice a week ... but you don't really know that for sure. They could just have a bunch of striped Maxtor hard drives stuffed into a machine in an office closet.

      Backup "services" that don't actually manage their own storage operations are even worse; they may themselves not really even know, or have any insight into besides marketing literature, about the actual operations on the hardware end. They're just buying storage and transfer from something like Amazon S3 or Nirvanix and then reselling it. Although they have reason to make everything sound as secure as possible, they may not have any actual control over it. If the upstream provider goes out of business, or gets wiped out by a hurricane / flood / plague of locusts, you're S.O.L.

      The security issue is, on the whole, one of the more straightforward problems to solve. The transparency of the actual storage-system operations seems harder.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    5. Re:The critical flaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, we've talked about this at work. Sure, you can encrypt/decrypt your data client side, but... who holds the 'keys'? And, if someone leaves the company and has those 'keys', whats to prevent them from posting them on some blog and having 3.2million weenie hackers on the 'net getting access to your potentially proprietary/damaging data?

      From a security perspective, I can't see storing any data that might in the slightest be a problem if it gets deleted or published on the 'net, on the 'cloud'... the potential for damage would far outweigh any perceived 'advantage'.

    6. Re:The critical flaw by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      That works well if your definition of a cloud is "webdav". But what about all the other cloud features, where whole applications are available on the cloud, and your data is actually manipulated by server side code? If we were just talking webdav here, backups would be a lot easier. But with many cloud offerings, there simply isn't a way to download all your data with one command. Also, for clouds that do offer applications, download just the files may not be enough, as you would have your files, but might not be able to manipulate them with the applications on the cloud.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    7. Re:The critical flaw by iwein · · Score: 1
      Am I to believe you solder your own storage devices? You have to either trust a party to not be a moron or not be a moron yourself.

      The trust in this instance was clearly misplaced.

      --
      Show a man some news, distract him for an hour. Show a man some mod points, distract him for the rest of his life.
    8. Re:The critical flaw by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's preventing a service that does encryption/decryption on the client side? Other than the lack of desire from the providers I mean.

      I think there are several issues, and lack of interest from providers is actually among the least of them. Lack of interest from users is probably the biggest issue. Many people just don't care that much about the privacy of their data -- they either honestly don't care who sees their stuff, or don't care enough to be willing to expend any effort or time preventing it. Adding a well-designed encryption feature to a backup service would add complexity and expense, and if people aren't willing to pay for that (i.e. they don't care), it's not going to get added.

      Some enterprise backup systems do offer encryption (and also offer non-cloud-based backup, for companies that want to keep everything on-site) so it's not as though it's never been done. You just don't see it on the consumer level that often, because consumers don't care enough about privacy to pay for it.

      Also, a well-designed encryption system -- where the data was effectively lost if the user misplaced or lost their decryption key -- would probably lead to a lot of customer-service problems. Inevitably, users would upload data, not make a backup of the key (or make a backup and then lose it, or not store it off-site, or whatever), and then get upset when they couldn't recover their data from the backup service that they paid for. I've dealt with this sort of thing personally before; many users just don't get encryption. They find it inconceivable that you, as the god-like administrator, can't just open up an encrypted file on command when they lose their password. (I've had people literally accuse me of plotting against them or being insubordinate for not opening their encrypted files for them.)

      So given that it would add complexity to the implementation to do right, isn't something that people are likely to pay extra for, and is likely to cause a lot of problems and expense down the road, it's not surprising that most online backup services either don't offer encryption or don't turn it on by default if they do. It's easy for knowledgeable users to add encryption to files before uploading them; just letting them do that is a lot easier than trying to explain to Aunt Millie why her vacation photos are gone because she wrote down her password on a piece of paper that was lost in the fire that destroyed her computer.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    9. Re:The critical flaw by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      Require two or more keys to access the data. Restrict downloads to your corporate IP block, with individual user files accessible from anywhere but encrypted with only their keys, which are backed up and dual encrypted so the IT department can recover them if necessary, but doesn't have access to spy unless they can get an accomplice.

      This stuff is solvable, and can be done transparently. I mean, I'm not putting my data on some fly-by-night's servers (or any servers that aren't running open-source software with plenty of competitors), but there's no technical reason this couldn't come out.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    10. Re:The critical flaw by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      That's all well and good if they're merely storing the data, but not if you're using an online app suite like Google Apps.

    11. Re:The critical flaw by phoenix.bam! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Cloud computing is no different than any other hosting service. Shared hosting, a colo box, a virtual machine, or a cloud account are all vulnerable. So unless you have a direct line to a tier1 backbone you're going to have to put your data into someone else's hands at some point.

    12. Re:The critical flaw by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      The critical flaw of cloud computing is that you entrust your data to a third party. If you are at all concerned with privacy you will think cloud computing is a terrible idea.

      Or you'll just make sure your data is encrypted before sending it out to the 3rd party for storage... Just like, if you're really concerned with privacy, you'll be encrypting the data locally as well.

      Now, of course, for a cloud system where you're using someone else's CPU cycles that may not work... You might not be able to keep the data encrypted... But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about simple file storage. And there's absolutely no reason why you can't encrypt the files yourself and then store them wherever you like.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    13. Re:The critical flaw by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't so much that you have to trust your data to a third party. The problem is lack of regulation and standards for the the "cloud".
      We trust our money to third parties "banks" and that works pretty well.
      A professionally run company should do as good of a job securing your data as bank does securing your money.
      This company is a good example of a really bad company. It seems they took less care in migrating their customers data than my company did in migrating our customers website accounts.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    14. Re:The critical flaw by Slurpee · · Score: 1

      The critical flaw of cloud computing is that you entrust your data to a third party. If you are at all concerned with privacy you will think cloud computing is a terrible idea.

      Not really. There are two issues you raise 1) Entrusting your data to a third party. 2) Privacy concerns.

      1) In some cases, a third party will do a better job at backing up your data then yourself or your company. This is the real world - outsourcing sometimes is a good idea. But be careful. Everyone stuffs up - who is more likely to stuff up?

      2) Privacy concerns depends on a whole lot of things. Including how sensitive your data is, and if the data is encrypted by you before submitting it to the cloud. So it could be a problem - not not necessarily so.

      So neither are "critical" flaws - it all depends on your own situation, who you are entrusting your data to, and how you are entrusting it to them.

      Mike

    15. Re:The critical flaw by Collective+0-0009 · · Score: 1

      You don't understand cloud computing as it is discussed today. It refers to putting storage (and maybe utilizing apps) on a remote machine that you don't own (and most likely in a place that you can't directly access). That isn't in the same ballpark as colo or even shared hosting. In the latter you have full access to your account, usually with a great connection, and can download your data quickly. Also if you have important data at a colo, you better have 2 servers replicating.

      --
      I finally updated my sig, but now it's lame.
    16. Re:The critical flaw by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      come to take away all your freedoms that you enjoy, such as your protection from unreasonable search or seizure...

      Quiet you! move along...we don't allow unpatriotic trouble makers here! Sigh, unfortunately this is the type of response that we get from our government these days.

    17. Re:The critical flaw by stacey7165 · · Score: 1

      Indeed, transparency is a problem. Although I disagree that you need to know where or specifically how the machines are configured. What transparency you do need is how the service is performing. What is throughput? Latency? Response times? Right now, you mostly only know they are on and off - having more of an early warning system is critical to getting your redundancy strategy in place - and more quickly understanding if the problem is really in the cloud or the app.

      You pay the cloud service provider to organize the service (and the software that powers it). When it fails, they are responsible for correcting it quickly and paying, or crediting, your account as it exceeds SLAs. You are ultimately responsible for your own SLAs - that means making wise choices about if you can use the cloud at all, and make sure you have an automated redundancy process. Transparency and the tools that can help have been slow to emerge.

      Full disclosure, I work for web monitoring provider http://www.hyperic.com/, who is actually working with the major cloud providers to develop a new tool that provides independent transparency to the performance of these clouds - http://www.cloudstatus.com/ and will be integrating that service into the open source Hyperic HQ complete monitoring and mangagement tool we also provide. Its definitely a work in progress, but we believe we're on a strong path to be solving this problem in the near future.

    18. Re:The critical flaw by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

      Cloud computing isn't a bad thing. We do some of it, but mostly not. What needs to happen is a the creation of standards.

      If we had standards for how cloud computing is done, we could start down the road towards RAIC - or Redundant Array of Inexpensive Clouds. That way the data and applications can be mirrored between various clouds should one fail.

      For example, right now I have my pictures backed up to an online photo sharing site. What happens if that site were to disappear? My computer's crashed and I'm missing a few hundred pictures which are currently just on that site. So now I back this up with an online backup service. Thus, I'm hacking a redundant cloud backup service.

    19. Re:The critical flaw by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      And since the item in question is a backup service, which do you think it might be?

    20. Re:The critical flaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, your complete collections of pirated animes is safe from the prying eyes of whoever you think actually cares, you cross-eyed fucknut.

    21. Re:The critical flaw by phoenix.bam! · · Score: 1

      Thanks for a reply fully out of context with the original post in this thread! I'm glad you were able to add information totally unrelated to the security of entrusting your data to a third party.

      Could you please clarify the link between security of your data and having 2 replicating servers for a colo box? Or how having full access to your shared hosting account keeps the hosting service from invading your privacy?

      And then perhaps explain how a cloud account is more prone to data snooping than a colo box or a shared account?

      Thanks!

  11. Not a whole lot, but... by ericleasemorgan · · Score: 1

    What do you do when the cloud shuts down? Nothing. Seriously. This is why you strongly weigh the advantages of cloud computing or relying on an outside network in general. I recently purchased a house that has no and will have no Internet connection. While there my computing change and I figure out ways to accomplish many of my same goals with a limited set of resources. I sort of look at the whole thing as interesting computing problem to solve or work around.

  12. OK, so I'm a dinosaur, but... by FlyByPC · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...they can have my local computing and storage capabilities when they pry them from my cold, dead hands. Google is great for looking things up -- and webmail accounts are great for portability -- but the old saying applies: If you want something done (backed up, available), do it yourself. Much more secure that way, too.

    Besides, with Remote Desktop, FOUSs*, and continuous 'Net connections, it's pretty easy to take it with you.


    * (8GB on a microSDHC the size of my fingernail is a Flashdrive Of Unusual Size in my book!)

    --
    Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
    1. Re:OK, so I'm a dinosaur, but... by Alascom · · Score: 1

      I'm not putting my data in your computing cloud, and I'm sick of all these kids on my lawn.

      Seriously, cloud computing can be great but like anything else pick a solid provider, not some po-dunk little company that offers service %50 cheaper than the next guy. Go with a Google, not a billy-and-jims-cloud.biz

  13. An old maxim: by Tinfoil · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you want something done right, do it yourself.

    Those who would knowingly trust their data to an outside (and relatively untested) organization without having a backup in place are just asking for something like this to happen.

    Oh, ya, backups are hard.

    1. Re:An old maxim: by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that...

      Those who would give up their Essential Data to purchase Temporary Convenience, deserve neither Data nor Convenience.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    2. Re:An old maxim: by Tinfoil · · Score: 1

      Clever!

    3. Re:An old maxim: by meuhlavache · · Score: 1

      If you want something done right, do it yourself.

      Sell the service at your friend/family, get cash and buy you a new car... Screw them, no matter you'll get cash!

      Sell the service at your friend/family, get cash and buy you a new car... Screw them, no matter you'll get cash!

      (this reply is RAID 1 powered)

    4. Re:An old maxim: by Godji · · Score: 1

      If you want something done right, do it yourself.

      I'll build my own cloud! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget about the cloud!

    5. Re:An old maxim: by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      If you want something done right, do it yourself.

      You know something, yesterday I got a filling in one of my teeth. At the time, it seemed like a good idea to let my dentist do it; but now that I read your Insightful post, I'm not so sure.

      The filling seems OK to me, but how can I be sure if I didn't do it myself? I'm really starting to regret allowing a licensed professional with over 25 years of experience perform that medical procedure on me. After all, if I really wanted it done right, I would have done it myself (despite the fact that my knowledge of teeth begins and ends with the Tooth Fairy).

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  14. Clouds are overhyped. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Like all current buzzwords people jump onto them with a vague understanding on what they are and what they do. Just to be buzzword complaint. Clouds are rather complicated to maintain and operate and are really for only some very particular tasks. Most companies and people don't need them and shouldn't use them, as it is to much effort for the gain. So you doubled performance however you need 3 times the IT Staff hours to keep it operating smoothly and manage the cloud, it really isn't worth it for most cases. For most places small grid computing or getting a larger server does the trick a lot easier.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  15. Sell me data insurance by cohomology · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every year, I read the terms of service of a bunch of online backup services, but I have not found one that gives the provider any incentive to be careful. They say they have *no liability of any kind*. Why should I trust them?

    I will cheerfully pay to insure access to my data, but nobody offers me insurance.

    --
    Don't mess with The Phone Company. Piss them off and you'll be using two tin cans and a piece of string.
    1. Re:Sell me data insurance by DetpackJump · · Score: 1

      Data insurance? So, like, the payout gives you money to buy a new copy of your data if it is lost?

  16. Same happened to me. by anomnomnomymous · · Score: 4, Funny

    I had this overly insightful comment... but it all got lost when I submitted it.

    And now look what I'm left with!

    --
    When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
  17. My mistake... by Halmos · · Score: 1

    I thought this story was going to be about MobileMe.

  18. Lawsuit, Lawsuit... no seriously by sup2100 · · Score: 1

    It seems like the data is still there and the only reason they can't get to it is liscensing/ disagreements between companies... at this point I'd sue everyone until they're forced to cooperate and hand over the data

  19. An offtopic information package by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Psssst. Satanists worship a Christian deity. Pass it on.

    Nope. Worshippers of satan actually do. Worshippers of satan != satanist.

    Satanism is about the consept of Satan. Satan represents everything opposite to what religions do. He is a symbol of following your own desires, not letting others tell you what to do, living and enjoying in the current moment instead of waiting for your place in heaven... Not actually the red, horned creature living deep underground.

    Naturally, as with any ideology, satanists are people with different views among them. For some it represents just what I said, for others it represents certain aspects of that (such as not caring about what happens to other people as long as you are happy, etc.) but generally the point is that it represents what you want it to and is thus opposite of religions.

    "Any man who says 'Thou shalt' or 'Thou shalt not' is my mortal enemy on earth" is a verse from the satanistic bible.

    I'm believe in a lot that can be found in the satanistic bible though a lot of it doesn't fit me. For example, I do get pleasure from other people having fun.

    And then, I could argue for hours if it is still satanism. I mean, I act the way I feel best, despite what some satanistic bible tells me. Even christians who do what bible tells them because they want to do those things (instead of doing them just because bible tells them to) are arguably satanists.

    I really recommend everyone to actually read the satanistic bible. A lot of it seems to be just bullshit but some concepts are very interesting to think further. The point is that satanism is far too often confused with satan's worshippers, which are completely different groups.

    1. Re:An offtopic information package by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You, sir, are an idiot.

    2. Re:An offtopic information package by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh boy a self-help book!

    3. Re:An offtopic information package by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn it all. It was fscking joke. Why do the Satanists always have to point out that they are really hedonists? Sheesh.

    4. Re:An offtopic information package by Corwn+of+Amber · · Score: 1

      Because they're fourteen years old?

      --
      Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
  20. This is why backups are important by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A few years ago, I had my websites hosted at this one company, Digi-Wave. They were great for a few years, but suddenly their servers were down. For a week. Yes, I said a week. The servers came up again briefly before going down again, but in that brief span, I managed to backup my database and files. When I called their support line, I was told that their servers were infected with Code Red (IIRC, I know it was one of those IIS worms). I knew this was a bogus answer because the fix to Code Red infection was: 1) disconnect the machine from the 'Net, 2) reboot it, 3) apply the patch (possibly rebooting again), 4) reconnect to the 'Net. It shouldn't have taken them over a week to fix this.

    Then they stopped answering support calls and their phone's inbox filled up until it stopped accepting recordings. By this time, I contacted my credit card company to get my money back and had made arrangements with another hosting provider. I was lucky to have retained my data. Many were not so lucky. And to add insult to injury, after Digi-Wave folded, another hosting company arose with a different name but the same contact information.

    The moral of this story is to always backup. Because you never know when the cloud, your webhost, or even your personally owned and run server will go south and take your data with it.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  21. redundancy is the key by ionix5891 · · Score: 1

    redundancy is the key, use several services to store your data

    paid: use something like amazon s3
    free: use online storage sites that were around for few years like http://ifile.it/

  22. Cloud yes, but local too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This is why you should always store your data in more than one location. Yes, put it in the cloud - but also store it locally. Dropbox is a good example of software that does this.

  23. I must be too old by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    I don't even trust IMAP to store my email remotely - I still use POP and make backups. I suppose that might change in the future now that the internet is more accessible - my previous internet provider thought "high speed internet" involved their replacing the 33kb modem bank with V.90 units. What can I say, I used to live out in the sticks.

    I like the idea of access to everything, from everywhere, but I think I'd still prefer to have the "master" copies at "home" and have the remote files synchronized to that data instead of the other way around. (or, in this case, potentially have no local copy *shiver*)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  24. People Who Follow Cheap Fads by segedunum · · Score: 1

    People who follow fads get what they deserve. If you have something on one server, and you know where it is even if it's hosted, then that is at least something. Backups are still important though, obviously. However, in a cloud it could be anywhere. If you lose one part of the cloud then your data is essentially useless. Backups become even more important.

  25. What I do? by ketilwaa · · Score: 1

    What I do? I get on with my life, having saved all important stuff locally (copy, paste if I need to), and having printed what I really, really need.
    If my iLife was so important, I'd use a grounded method of communicating to begin with.
    Life deals shit and mishaps on a daily basis, and if what you're doing is so important, invest some time and intelligence into how you save that work. "The cloud" is just somewhere to put the blame when the fault lies between computer and screen.

  26. Software as a Service Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is great , this is the best case against the "Software as a Service" model I have ever Seen.

    "When we looked at some individual accounts, some people didn't have any files, and some people had all their files," The Linkup CeO Steve Iverson admits. None of the affected users will get their lost data back. Iverson called it a "worst-case scenario."

    Let me translate:

    1. You don't get what you pay/[paid] for.
    2. We are not responsible, nyah nyah!
    3. You will not be compensated
    4. All your data are belong to /dev/null

    What could possibly go wrong, trusting a big corporation with your data?

    How hard is it to back up on CDR/DVD/Tape?

    1. Re:Software as a Service Yay! by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      Since it's an isolated example and far from a big corporation, your case wasn't made nearly as well as you seem to think it was.

  27. Link to the article on ONE PAGE by Dekortage · · Score: 3, Funny

    This version may be easier to read.

    Bottom line: The Linkup is blaming Nirvanix (a third-party service provider) which is, of course, blaming The Linkup. FTA:

    Nirvanix says it has not deleted any customer data, and promises that its Storage Delivery Network is immune to the problem that plagued The Linkup. At The Linkup, a "system administrator ran a script that misidentified active account data and disassociated physical files from their owners," Nirvanix says. "This led to files being marked offline in the old Streamload/MediaMax file system when they shouldn't have been." Iverson, meanwhile, claims it was a Nirvanix engineer who caused the data loss.

    Summary: "He did it." "No, he did it." "No, it was him!" "You did it FIRST!" "Idiot!" "Moron!" "Jackass!" ** customers shoot them both **

    --
    $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
  28. You can backup with IMAP, too. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    You know, you can use IMAP and set your MUA to cache all messages and attachments locally. Virtually every IMAP client I've ever used has had this option (okay, a few mobile phones excepted). Apple Mail and Thunderbird definitely do. If you use this, you get almost all the advantages of POP -- keeping local copies -- while also being able to easily use multiple clients without worrying about sync issues.

    I have several computers connected to the same GMail mailbox via IMAP. One of them connects and caches everything (bodies and attachments), the others only download on command. This gives me a local backup of every message that comes in (via the cached copy of Gmail's "All Mail" folder) but gets all the benefits of IMAP otherwise.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:You can backup with IMAP, too. by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that just goes to show how old I am. The first time I ran into an imap server, my email reader wouldn't/couldn't do a local copy (though it's possible is was user incompetence, though I was better with the internals then than I am now). My "real" job has gotten in the way of keeping up with most of this for the past 10 or 12 years, and today the cost of consultants to do the work hasn't justified the efficiency improvements available at my small scale. *shrug*

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  29. hmmm by Larryish · · Score: 1

    If GMail went down, I would have to.. oh my god... open Thunderbird and look in the GMail IMAP folder.

  30. Re:Fuck your God it is Satan who in trusts my soul by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

    And i still enjoy my presents from santa every year.

    Also have you ever considerd what eternal bliss/torture would feal like, after the 1st few years both will get pretty lame and maybe im into S&M so i might prefer hell anyway

    --
    IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
  31. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    If enough people tell you that silly claims of non-living proteins somehow coming together on their own over billions of years to form living cells are true, despite zero evidence, many soft-headed folks will buy-in to feel part of the group.

    Congratulations!

  32. They screwed me! by AdamWho · · Score: 1

    I was one of their customers (media max) and they didn't even bother to tell me they were bought by Linkup. I just show out at the site one day to upload some files and there is nothing, login gone, files gone, and a lame excuse.

  33. Gmail outage reported yesterday too by toby · · Score: 1

    n/t

    --
    you had me at #!
  34. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by fluffman86 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You're right. There is zero tangible evidence for eternal life. Good point (really).

    So that means that if *YOU* are right that there's no eternal life, then both of us are going to rot in the ground when we die. Really, that's not such a bad thing for me. Plus, I will have lived my life respectfully, to its fullest, without bondage to drugs or material things, and I will have hopefully helped people along the way.

    But, on the other hand, if *I* am right about heaven, then my life still hasn't changed all that much, except you are in for a whole new world of hurt when you die.

  35. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by Collective+0-0009 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Really?? You might want to read something by Bertrand Russell. There are others as well, which you can google, that will tell you of the massive amount of evil done by believing in such fairy tales. There are entire books on this subject, so I won't try to convince you in a /. post, but that line of thinking is dangerous and you should really put more thought into what you support.

    --
    I finally updated my sig, but now it's lame.
  36. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are, as many people do, confusing 'religion' with 'spirituality'. IMO, they are far from the same.

    I had a NDE as a child, so I *do* have my own evidence. Were there harps and clouds everywhere and folk with wings? No. Not at all. But there is Something Beyond, out there. It feels like going Home. It is Peace, and Acceptance, and Reunion, and Knowing, all at once, and more.

    Nope, I am not a practicing Christian, or Muslim, or Jew, or anything religious at all. If you have to define me to fit me into your world view, I'd guess the best way would be to say that I am a Spirituality of One, thanks.

    Of course, YMMV, but - I was there. :)

  37. A device meant for this exact situation by noidentity · · Score: 1

    What Do You Do When the Cloud Shuts Down?

    I pull out an umbrella!

  38. Don't use the cloud by Godji · · Score: 1

    I may sound like the grumpy old "told-you-so" guy on this one, but who in their right mind would trust the cloud with their important data?

    When these days computers and storage are so cheap, why does anyone bother with cloud storage, with all the complexity, reliability, security and privacy issues that it entails?

    Seriously, get down to Earth! The cloud is overrated. I will go as far as to claim that the cloud is nothing more than the uber-buzzword of 2008.

  39. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But, on the other hand, if *I* am right about heaven, then my life still hasn't changed all that much, except you are in for a whole new world of hurt when you die.

    NOT SO! Silly...

    The question of whether Heaven exists is TOTALLY SEPARATE from the question of whether Hell exists, or what Hell is like if it even DOES exist.

    Much of the bible mistranslated "Hades" as "Hell" for one thing; the ancient Greek concept of Hades was that it was a dark place where every soul goes when they die, and where they basically flit about as ghosts. Punishment was reserved for people who really ticked off the gods, and THEY were sent to Tartarus, NOT Hades.

    And ancient Jewish theology held that Hell was only a temporary punishment, and that once you'd "paid your debt to society" you were sent on to Heaven. In fact, I seem to remember reading that the maximum stay in Hell was considered to be two years.

    All this "burn in sulfur and hellfire for an eternity" crap was invented by the Catholic church to scare people into obeying their ridiculous demands.

    Look it up. It's great stuff, very interesting.

  40. I fix it. by grimmfarmer · · Score: 1

    *duh*

  41. The Cloud Is Still There: Use It by reallocate · · Score: 1

    The cloud didn't go away. One company did.

    I use an online storage facility, but I do not store irreplaceable or unique copies of anything there. At best, it's tertiary storage.

    Make multiple copies. Stash them in multiple places. The odds of all of them vanishing are almost nil.

    And think about what you're trying to protect. Don't be a packrat. Don't waste time and money backing up something you haven't used or seen in years.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  42. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    There is overwhelming evidence for evolution in its basic form. It is a requirement for understanding biology.

    It also does not claim that non-living proteins come together on their own -- though there is certainly more evidence for that than for your mythical sky-god.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  43. Cloudy minds? by Kiliani · · Score: 1
    Seems to me people's minds get clouded by cloud computing...

    I like to take this in a more literal sense. Maybe it's called cloud computing for a reason, and not cloud data storage. If you want to make sure that your precious stuff does not get lost, you need a reliable partner with a good track record that you can really trust.

    And even then: your own, intelligently done backups (plural!) should be your best line of defence - even if it costs more time and money.

    --
    Do your own thing. And overdo it!
  44. This isn't the first time & it won't be the la by mdonley · · Score: 2, Informative

    Does anybody remember Visto.com, formerly Briefcase.com? They had an incredible cloud storage and synchronization engine that I still have not found a suitable replacement for, and this was back in like 1998, way before Gmail and all the other glorious Google tools. They were so far ahead of their time it's ridiculous! Only 25mb of free storage, but still, back then, that was unheard of! Back in the day, their *free* service offered a tool you could download to your local machine, This tool would establish a local repository folder for files, which the tool would then handle the synchronization to the cloud. Not to mention integrating with outlook to synchronize address book, private calendars, public calendars, group calendars, tasks, bookmarks, and just about everything. Running this on two or more machines ensured that you were always in sync. Then, to top it off, they offered webmail, and website access to all of your files and bookmarks and everything else. Did I mention that it was *free*? But then the fateful day arrived when I was notified they were changing their business model to sell mobile phone synchronization software. I guess free services don't pay the bills. This was a company who was able to actually sue Microsoft for patent infringement and win... By the way, did anybody else out there in /. world use and like Visto? Has anybody ever found a suitable replacement? Google has a ton of different tools to help fill different areas of the void Visto.com left behind, but I don't think I will ever see another product like Visto come around again.

    --
    God look at me, I'm just a man, but you tell me I'm not just a man, so hard to understand, after all, I'm just a man.
  45. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    You've presented two arguments which have been, well, argued to the death: Pascal's wager, and the religion-is-useful argument (as distinct from the religion-is-true argument.)

    Let's try the first one: Pascal's Wager. Here, read the criticisms -- no need to read in-depth, just scan the headers and realize the assumptions you've made.

    In particular, you fail to account for what happens if the original AC troll is right. If he's right, I'm better off than you -- you'll burn for worshipping God instead of Satan, whereas I might still have a chance.

    Now, the second one:

    Plus, I will have lived my life respectfully, to its fullest, without bondage to drugs or material things, and I will have hopefully helped people along the way.

    If I may be so bold, I have lived my life respectfully, to its fullest (so far), without bondage to drugs (except caffeine) or material things, and I have hopefully helped people along the way.

    The difference is, you have probably taught some people to believe something ridiculous on faith alone, which means you've taught them to turn off their rational mind just this once so they can accept God's word without question. (So what is to stop them from turning off their rational mind again, when Sylvia Brown or John Edwards come knocking?)

    I, on the other hand, have taught people to think for themselves.

    So given that, the only way you will have lived the better life is if you are right -- that God not only exists, but that he punishes independent thought -- which is a circular argument.

    Because that would mean you're basically arguing that religion is useful because it's true -- but you're also arguing that you don't know if it's true, but we should believe because it's useful. (Why is it useful again?)

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  46. Re:Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.
    Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.

    COME ON!!!! Whooo!!!

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  47. Clouds by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

    Can someone please explain to me why the overloaded term "cloud" was used in this summary? Other than for buzzword-compliance?

    I don't see anything related to cloud computing here.

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    1. Re:Clouds by DingerX · · Score: 1

      Cloud computing != grid computing.

    2. Re:Clouds by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Random Wikipedia links != answer to my question.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  48. "Turns out to be" a buzzword? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    It was never anything else.

    There simply aren't any compelling advantages to trusting some external, remote service with your data that can't be had by setting up your own centralised resources in-house and accessing them the same way, but there certainly are compelling disadvantages in terms of robustness and security. The "Google/Amazon will never break", "I trust Google more than my own guys with my data" claptrap doesn't hold much water in light of several recent incidents of significant downtime and/or data being compromised.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  49. LHC, LHC, LHC by tepples · · Score: 1

    Backups aren't worth a damn if the building is blown up.

    So what's worth a damn if the planet is blown up?

  50. Storage Service Provider by HockeyPuck · · Score: 2, Informative

    I used to work at a Storage Service Provider back in the dotcom era (StorageNetworks baby!), and before you sign up for any type of service provider that would be providing access to your data you need to go over that contract with a fine toothed comb. Two areas that need to be covered are:

    What happens if the SSP goes out of business, how do you get your data back? In our contracts we would give you your data back either via access to the old arrays for X days to copy it somewhere else. Worst case: We drop a truckload of tapes off on your doorstep.

    Financial impact of loss of service. We had many financial customers that wanted to make sure we had "enough cash in the bank" to cover their financial losses if they suffered any downtime due to an issue on our end.

    Just like picking a hosting provider, you need to make sure you have contingency plans for data loss or corruption. If the SSP can't provide you with the services you need (backups, snapshots etc..), find another provider.

  51. depends on the company by scamper_22 · · Score: 1

    Well this all depends on the company. MediaMax/Linkup is not a name I recognize or a trusted industry leader. So I certainly wouldn't expect much of them.

    It's like a new banks hows up in your neighborhood that is not regulated or insured or anything. Do you just dump your money there? I would hope not. So why would anyone trust their data to such a service?

    I trust Google/hotmail with my email (they certainly do more backups than I would do). Would I trust them with essential business information or something? Maybe... but I'd have to properly investigate their backup procedures... or implement my own. Yet, this article does a poor job by finding one shoddy company and using it as a baseline. Pardon me if I ever do depend on one of these in which case I will be paying for it, that I demand a SLA (service level agreement).

    1. Re:depends on the company by argent · · Score: 1

      I trust Google/hotmail with my email

      You know you can use IMAP to sync your GMAIL to your local system and back it up on a DVD?

      I'd recommend giving that some real consideration. Seriously.

      if I ever do depend on one of these in which case I will be paying for it, that I demand a SLA (service level agreement).

      Not much good if the company goes casters-up.

    2. Re:depends on the company by Corwn+of+Amber · · Score: 1

      Simple really. Google and Hotmail just HAVE to be up'n'runnin' 24/7, else they'll have some zillion users with no email for $LENTGH_OF_TIME. Now, mail.momandpop.com has some dozen people on their service, who won't even notice when momandpop.com isn't accessible for a day. (Specially since their users all have mail adresses anyway.)

      My point is, you can trust companies who have THAT much to lose (MSFT, GOOG), but certainly not small ops that will disappear in a year.

      And you just have to look at their website once to know if it's serious. And if you can't tell, ask Google : how long have they been there doing Just That? And, most important : do they have enough money to support your use of their service? (This applies more to "free" services, but anyone offering something for $0 has to have some sort of revenue stream anyway, and one that won't dry up as fast as venture capital)

      --
      Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
  52. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by Corwn+of+Amber · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Not true. Everyone who's had an NDE felt the exact same things.

    Some were too far gone (brain cells necrosing, anyone?) and babble about "wheels of light" and such, but what is known and undisputable, backed up by untold zillions of experiences, is 1)It feels good, 2)"Light at the end of the tunnel". As for what follows, come on - seeing your dead loved ones? Yeah, right. What's next, Judgement of the Dead ?

    --
    Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
  53. Recently had this discussion by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1

    I've been working with a couple sharp folks who had developed some cool technology for their PhD work and wanted to market it commercially. One was a huge fan of RoR and cloud computing. We were specing out the development map of a commercial application of what they had been working on and I had one demand: recode everything in PHP and use the traditional method of load balanced networks and database clusters for scaling.

    The entire month of June was him bitching about "WHy aren't we using S3!" and how well Ruby wold scale and the cloud would never go down, etc. etc..

    My response was always, "I know the old method will scale and how it scales. Plus we can host that set up ourselves if need be."

    Fortunately, the other developer had spent a few years working for IBM before going back for his PhD and understood the priniciple of "Go with what you know until something better comes around and is proven."

    Well, then S3 went down. I never said anything, but since Monday, June 21st, he hasn't bitched about doing it the old fashion way.
    When S3 went down, something the first developer claimed could never happen,

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  54. Test restore, test restore, test restore! by gilgongo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't have any way of verifying this story, but I worked with an old guy once who told me that he had been at a startup in the UK that was, by the sound of it, creating a kind of IMDB in about 1994. They had a team of researchers and a bunch of seed capital to create a large film database. Everything was ticking along for about 18 months and they had researched thousands of films.

    Then one day, the database shut down and they traced it to some bad hardware. They replaced the hardware and restored the database from the previous night's backup. Nothing doing - the backup tape (he said it was DAT) was corrupt. So they tried the other one. Nada. Same corruption. So they tried the off-site one. Same thing. Turned out all the backups they had made seem to have transferred the same corruption resulting in nothing significant recoverable.

    Had they tried a test restore at some point, they might have found out. As it was, a week after the crash, they shut the business down.

    Which reminds me of another (maybe apocryphal) story: the head of IT as a large company was fond of organising disaster recovery practices by walking into the data centre, physically removing a (pre-ordained) server and leaving a note in its place with the words "The server crashed" written on it. The support staff (and presumably management) knew that this would happen, but not when, or which machine (or dependent services) would be affected. Interesting test I would say.

    --
    "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
  55. Whats so hard about this? by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 1

    If you transpose "data cloud" with "data service" or "data servers" would you then have a redundancy solution?

    --
    I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
  56. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

    These Mac vs. Linux arguments get really tiresome.

  57. It will be mandatory, soon enough by natoochtoniket · · Score: 0

    Don't worry. The new Terrorist Information Monitoring act of 2011 will require all storage to be on cloud servers, provided by a few selected trustworthy and highly secure corporations. The purpose will be to detect terrorist cells before they can do something awful.

    The storage vendors will be selected by the government. Naturally, the criteria for vendor selection will be based on the size of the vendors "political contributions". Miscellaneous requirements will include that the administration makes rules as to who can access that information. Of course, the political party in power when the act goes into effect will grant access to itself, and deny access to other parties.

    Because the stored information will include voter registration data, votes from past elections, and current votes for each new election, all future elections will be completely rigged. Writing anything against that administration, or suggesting that something might be wrong with the elections, will get you branded a terrorist. Terrorists will be picked up and incarcerated, before they can actually do anything that might be detrimental to the ruling party.

    The only problem is, I don't know whether this is scary or funny.

  58. As an ex-customer, I'm not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This doesn't surprise me one bit. I was a customer of StreamLoad years ago, and was still using them when they decided to get rid of StreamLoad and merge it with a new version of MediaMax.

    During the "upgrade" process (which really felt like a downgrade), and for months afterwards, there was nothing but issue after issue. Accounts became unavailable for weeks at a time. Bandwidth quotas were incorrectly reported. Uploaded files never got processed or took days to become available in your downloadable files folder. Worse, people (like myself) were billed for time when they were unable to even use their account. I have never seen a more poorly managed migration.

    The company blog was filled with comments from irate customers until the company started deleting them and eventually disabling comments all together. I personally gave them the benefit of the doubt for a couple of months, but it never got better and I never received a credit for the two weeks of downtime that I had requested. Eventually, I moved everything to AmazonS3, which by that time had become a mature product -- not to mention it was cheaper and *infinitely* more reliable than MediaMax ever was.

    I guess after the fiasco that was MediaMax, they had to change their brand name. Unfortunately, it appears that they haven't changed anything else.

  59. Hey, hey, you, you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...get off of my cloud!

  60. Technology needs to get past the buzzword phase by Scareduck · · Score: 1

    before it is useful. "Cloud computing" is like myriad other technology shorthands ("Web 2.0" being my favorite bête noir, but there are dozens of others) too immature to be trusted in production.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

  61. Backup, backup, backup... AND ARCHIVE by DrogMan · · Score: 1

    Don't forget to archive as well as backup. Sure, you can get last weeks data back, but can you get last years? The year before that? Archive your data as well as backing it up...

  62. It always shuts down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have Internet service from the monopoly Time Warner and it never works. I pay for 7000 kbps down / 368 kbps up and its rare that I get that. If I am lucky, I get 1500-2500 and thats on a good day. Time Warner is clueless.

    I also have Verizon Wireless. You know, the one with the best network in the country? Yea, bullshit on that one too. I dont get ANY service in and around my house, even up to a few blocks away from here. What they told me? "There are other carriers in your area". So at least THEY'RE not a monopoly but still..

    The cloud is a piece of crap and you better be prepared for a backup plan because it will and DOES crap out.

  63. Amen! by RexDevious · · Score: 1

    I worked at an Investment Bank with a very expensive backups system. We only had to use it occasionally when someone deleted a file by accident - but there was one period where we didn't need it for about 3 months. The next time we tried to restore something, we discovered it had stopped working about 2 1/2 months before that. So a regularly testing interval for various types of restores is important to implement.

    The random server gone missing scenario *sounds* ideal... but those times the missing server never came back? Yeah, that was me, and no - I didn't work there. Next time, have your IT tester use *company* Post-It's; they're much hard to forge. ;-)

  64. Burn Baby, Burn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Burn all your junk, that's what I do!

  65. Highly Redundant... by pythonhacker · · Score: 1

    I make it a point to back up my important data to a zip drive, my 30 GB IPod, my 2 redundant flash drives, my old dusty desktop (which is good only for backup and trying out Linux distros), my website. Hell, I even tried to put it in a partition on my mother-in-law's laptop, but she told to back off.... I also take print-outs of my important documents, laminate them and have a special locker for these linked to my savings bank account. The locker is insured for a few hundred thousand rupees... With all this redundancy, I sleep well - with another copy of my important data printouts under my pillow....

    --
    If you don't succeed at first, try again. If you still don't succeed, try harder. If nothing works, try reality shows.
  66. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, so you are some kind of super-brain, with psychic abilities, to know all about me and my past experiences, huh?

    OH! I get it! You're the all-knowing, all-seeing, all-smug Internet Expert, aren't you?

    Thank you, oh Wise One, for telling me what I went through and experienced myself...

    {/extreme sarcasm}

    Heh. "Blah" is a great sig, for you.

  67. Re:Religion is peer pressure manifest. by FatSean · · Score: 1

    He's just proposing a scenario. It's not like he's claiming you were created by his god or anything.

    --
    Blar.
  68. Re:This isn't the first time & it won't be the by jpfreely · · Score: 1

    I use Plaxo, Weave and Dropbox to do the same things.