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Apple's IPhone 3G Firmware Update Bombs

JagsLive writes "After lots of complaints about iPhone 3G connection issues, Apple released a firmware update Monday with hopes it would fix the issues. But early reports suggest it didn't work as planned. Complaints have included dropped calls, abrupt network switches, poor reception, and service interruptions. Apple declined to offer details about its iPhone 2.0.1 update, other than saying it included 'bug fixes.' However, comments in Apple's support forum say plenty about the latest attempt to rectify poor user experiences. In fact, the update seems to be causing new issues, apparently interfering with the GPS function, among others."

54 of 423 comments (clear)

  1. Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by xmas2003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds more and more like a hardware issue with the chipset ... so early adopters are may end up suffering ... be interesting to see if they "quietly" roll out a Rev 2 or publicly announce it.

    --
    Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
    1. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not at all. Just reduce the "number of bars" shown in the user interface and make the phone lose connection predictably at a higher threshold. Problem fixed.

    2. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch

      Tweak the firmware so the hardware issues are less obvious. Drop to edge quicker.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    3. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's fortunate that there's a 30 day return policy. I returned my iPhone 3G at 29 days and went back to Verizon and got a Blackerry Curve. Though the Blackberry doesn't have as nice of an interface, it's much more stable. In the argument of stability vs usablity, stability wins. I had a friend who also returned his. I'm not sure how many more will return theirs, but I don't feel like taking chances with my $200.

    4. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why would they? There are countless iPhones that do work correctly, and it seems most of the issues are a software problem. I would expect if the problems were consistant across all the iPhones they can fix the problem quicker. However I suspect it is one of those conditions that A then B then C need to meet and the cell towers need to aligned right for the problem to occur. Making it difficult to track down. So except for fixing the problem like an engineer where they can duplicate the problem then apply the fix and know it will work they will need to work more like doctors. Using their knowledge of the system and think of what possible could cause this (not an easy task as when they developed it they tried to think of all situations already) then apply a patch in hope it may fix it, with hit or miss results. Returning all the iPhones will not do any good as it reduces the number of people who report the problem and may finally get the clue on what is the problem.

      Yes you paid to be a Beta Tester it kinda sucks at least if they fix the problems you will have a nice phone.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by mmkkbb · · Score: 4, Informative

      But the chances of that happening are zero. apple has never did a recall and replace of defective equipment.

      Not true, there have been numerous defective logic board and battery replacement programs.

      --
      -mkb
    6. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by Have+Blue · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Apparently that was part of the problem before this patch- the phone was too picky about 3G signals. This caused a lot of people to get Edge when they expected 3G. Apple tweaked it a little so that the phone will tolerate dirtier 3G now. For some people this let them use a borderline signal and get mostly good performance, for others it made the phone grab at a really terrible signal and fail completely.

    7. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by Idaho · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tweak the firmware so the hardware issues are less obvious. Drop to edge quicker.

      Yes, except that several European countries do not have an Edge network (we went straight from GPRS to UMTS/3G), so people *will* notice if they do that. The issues have been quite widely reported in the Netherlands, also in mainstream news.

      I predict more drama bombs if it turns out this is indeed what the update is mostly about...

      --
      Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
    8. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by timster · · Score: 3, Informative

      I haven't seen any official source that was that specific -- even the notion that the 2.0.2 update was supposed to fix the 3G issues seems unsupported. Any references?

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    9. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by voidptr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Never?

      They just announced TWO yesterday.. One for bad batteries in first-gen iPod nanos that stopped being sold in December 2006, and one for MagSafe adapters with bad connectors on the end.

      --
      This .sig for unofficial government use only. Official use subject to $500 fine.
    10. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by idobi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean the people quoting the idiot financial analyst who is trying to manipulate the stock? The same financial analyst that also claimed the first iPhone would have to be recalled because the touchscreen was defective? It's interesting that every article claiming a hardware problem goes back to the same source.

    11. Re:Tough to fix hardware issue with firmware patch by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Unfortunately that joke doesn't apply to the web. The only way to tell the joke properly is to not post the joke at all. For all those who didn't post anything. Good show!

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. 2.0.1? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 5, Informative

    The crap linked article doesn't even get the version number right - I recommend reading ars techinca's take (the amusingly named Hope you didn't plan to actually make calls on iPhone 2.0.2) or even Apple insider.

    I for one welcome our new haha overlords.

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:2.0.1? by lymond01 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, in the summary's defense, they were referring to 2.0.1 and the lack of information Apple put out about that one. But the new update (unnumbered in the summary) has "plenty of information", at least from the people who had the misfortune of installing it.

      Anyway, thanks for the links.

    2. Re:2.0.1? by daveywest · · Score: 3, Insightful

      just ignore my above comment, I realized I wasn't on the front page, just looking at the apple page, and making myself look like an idiot.

    3. Re:2.0.1? by sbeckstead · · Score: 4, Informative

      I installed it and it works fine. Don't know what all the fluster is about.

  3. Obligatory... by initdeep · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Just Works" post.....

    Interestingly, I find it fairly insightful to see how the great unwashed masses are complaining about this, yet, for the most part, Apple is getting a "free pass" from pundit's, media, and most of the public because of past marketing.

    What would the reaction have been if this was some other company?

    Just a though that rattles around in my brain.

    1. Re:Obligatory... by ByOhTek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, if it were MS, there would be a 'defectivebydesign' tag already

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    2. Re:Obligatory... by kannibal_klown · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's pretty sad that the 3G iPhone is running into problems. Especially since it has such high visibility due to everyone wanting one.

      Actually, if this was any other cellphone company you would just get some bad reviews on a hardware site... and that's it. The fact that it's Apple means that it is appearing in more mainstream media.

      Oh no, the Nokia xxxx is dropping calls left and right. Yawn. Oh no the Razor isn't great. Yawn.

      Umm there's a problem with the iPho... OMG! CNN needs to cover this!

      I've had/used cellphones that were pieces of garbage; dropped calls, poor reception, etc.

      I guess that's the problem with a re-design; had they just refreshed the original iPhone there would be few technical glitches. But rolling out a new circuit board is causing them some headaches.

    3. Re:Obligatory... by Doddman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The reason this one is getting so much press is Apple's "It Just Works" campaign. They're saying it just works, and when it turns out to not "just work", it's a pretty big issue.

      --
      If creativity is the field, copyright is the fence.
    4. Re:Obligatory... by snl2587 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's pretty sad that the 3G iPhone is running into problems. Especially since it has such high visibility due to everyone wanting one.

      But the real kicker is that this is Apple's own hardware. I can understand when Microsoft's updates fail (at least to some extent) because of the multitude of different machines trying to run the software. But Apple owns the specs and built the machines. To me, failed software updates from them are inexcusable, but likely the fault of the bean-counters with MBA's (I like that expression for some reason, but I can't remember who to attribute it to) pushing out the update too fast.

      Based on other comments, I get the impression that this news is a little outdated, and I know that anti-Apple statements are a sure-fire way to get modded down. But please: consider all the factors of Apple products, especially if Apple insists on preventing other companies from writing OSes for their devices.

    5. Re:Obligatory... by Goaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple is getting a "free pass" from pundit's, media, and most of the public because of past marketing.

      It's always "marketing", isn't it? It certainly isn't that people buy their products and honestly like them.

    6. Re:Obligatory... by kannibal_klown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First, I don't have an iPhone nor do I plan on getting one. And while I use a MacBook Pro at home I'm not a zealot... I've had tech issues with my Apple products.

      Apple isn't perfect. They have the occasional hardware issue with their rev A systems and a poor OS update here and there. As a whole their systems are usually pretty darn stable, but they still get major issues.

      Heck, I was suffering with a known keyboard issue on my MacBook Pro for a year before they fixed it. A year.

      But in their defense, they're still somewhat new to the Cellphone arena. Sure, this is their second phone and some of the insides are similar to the iPod touch, but they're still new. It's like if a Car designer was asked to design and build a great riding lawn mower. They'd make one, but their first 2 models might have issues.

      Meanwhile, Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, etc have been pumping out Cellphones for a while and have gone through their growing pains. They know what to avoid when designing hardware and what to do when sending out a software update. And yet with all of this neither they are perfect.

      I've had issues with cellphones from other companies, and know some people that experience MAJOR issues with other cellphones. It happens.

      Here's hoping that third time's a charm.

    7. Re:Obligatory... by turtleAJ · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Just Works" post.....

      Stop mocking Apple d00d...
      I'm posting this from my updated iPhone, and obviou

    8. Re:Obligatory... by saintm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't get the mainstream press interested in a new phone being released, but they were all out for the iPhone.

      Live by the sword and all that.

    9. Re:Obligatory... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You must have missed all the "Google is now evil" stories floating around.

      Anyway, IJW isn't an ideal as you put it. According to Apple it's practically the primary reason to buy their hardware. Why buy a Mac if not because of IJW? Are they really going to change their ad campaigns to "It just has prettier icons"? I think not.

      If you attack your competition with arrogant adverts that personify them as unattractive, old fashioned people that don't work, and then sell stuff that doesn't work, people are going to notice. That's life.

    10. Re:Obligatory... by gehrehmee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Doesn't defective by design imply a DRM story? I didn't see any indication that the 3g connectivity problems had anything to do with DRM...

      --
      "You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help" -- Calvin
    11. Re:Obligatory... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Just Works" post.....

      Interestingly, I find it fairly insightful to see how the great unwashed masses are complaining about this, yet, for the most part, Apple is getting a "free pass" from pundit's, media, and most of the public because of past marketing.

      What would the reaction have been if this was some other company?

      Just a though that rattles around in my brain.

      Not only is it "past marketing," it's the clamorous fan-base that sends death-threats to columnists who say negative things about Apple products that make them very reluctant to criticize too quickly.

      The RDF is real. When I used Windows, if something was broken or I needed some application to do something, I would get a range of suggestions and, frequently, sympathetic remarks from other Windows users with the same problems. The attitude from Apple forums is generally that if an Apple product doesn't meet my needs or expectations, there's something wrong with my needs and expectations. There is a lot I like about my MacBook, but I'm getting fed up.

    12. Re:Obligatory... by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 3, Informative
      The Nokia model numbers are generally fairly logical to deduce (though could always be easier).
      • 1000 series - Ultrabasic series
      • 2000 series - Basic series
      • 3000 series - Expression series
      • 5000 series - Active series
      • 6000 series - Classic Business series
      • 7000 series - Fashion and Experimental series
      • 8000 series - Premium series
      • 9000 series - Communicator series (discontinued)
      • E series - Enterprise series
      • N series - Multimedia Computer series

      Within each series, typically, the higher the number, the better, newer the model.

      And they won't sell the same models under 3 other names with yet different model numbers: an AT&T version, a Sprint version, and a Verizon version.

      No, but if they ever did it cross-platform they'd end up with the iPhone Sprint, instead. Hint: this joke is an affectation of the carrier, not the manufacturer, either wanting custom firmware or using different radio frequencies. So unless you want either a) to stick with one carrier for your phone offering, or b) are planning on getting a six-plus band radio installed in it, whoever you are, you'll be making different models for the US carriers. It's a sad travesty that any other tri/quad band phone can work with every other carrier on the planet (leaving aside GSM vs CDMA etc), yet you can't get a GSM phone in the US that'll work on all US GSM networks, everywhere (pockets of [unique]mhz coverage only).

    13. Re:Obligatory... by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Toyota. Relabeled for the Starbucks and Monster cable crowd.

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
  4. never buy 1st gen apple hardware by sam_paris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been stung before by buying new apple hardware immediately (core duo macbook pro).

    Right now, i'm feeling pretty damn happy I decided to wait on the iphone 3g. I do have an iphone and it works perfectly. I think i'll wait for a few more months before I upgrade to the 3g :)

    1. Re:never buy 1st gen apple hardware by toleraen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you were stung before by purchasing brand new apple hardware, so you took your lesson learned, went out and purchased another 1st gen apple product?

  5. The update was to 2.0.2 by edalytical · · Score: 3, Interesting

    2.0.1 was the last update 2.0.2 is the most recent. And for the record my first gen iPhone works fine. The update fixed the slow typing bug and the battery drain bug. I don't know yet if it fixed the shuffle my home screen icons bug. True I wish Apple would give a complete change log. It sure would make it easier for us to give them feedback about those bugs if we knew what they were.

    --
    Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
    1. Re:The update was to 2.0.2 by Mad+Quacker · · Score: 4, Informative

      2.0.1 was the last update 2.0.2 is the most recent. And for the record my first gen iPhone works fine. The update fixed the slow typing bug and the battery drain bug. I don't know yet if it fixed the shuffle my home screen icons bug. True I wish Apple would give a complete change log. It sure would make it easier for us to give them feedback about those bugs if we knew what they were.

      Well let me prefix this with "I love my iPhone 3G, but..." *cough* yeah right..

      Apple doesn't want feedback. It's a privilege to use their products, if you don't like it, you know where to take it.

      The audiobook reader speed adjustment is *STILL* broken on my 5G iPod, I haven't dared to try on my iPhone 3G. Apple will never fix it. I'm afraid the same applies for many bugs on the iPhone.

      And no, I still have the slow keyboard bug with 2.0.2, except now my contacts list of 60 is unresponsive for up to 30 seconds after launching it. Excellent!!

      --
      "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." George HW Bush
  6. Disabled Apps by jrivar59 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    On my iPhone, 2.02 completely disabled all 3rd party apps. Any apps installed run for just a few seconds before returning to the app screen. Deleting and re-installing doesn't help.

    Good job apple.

    1. Re:Disabled Apps by e4g4 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The issue you're having is DRM induced - the phone needs to be reauthorized to run the software installed. Install a new app from the app store (anything, even a free app) and you should be good to go.

      --
      The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
  7. Paging RoughlyDrafted.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    From: steve.jobs@apple.com
    To: daniel@roughlydrafted.com
    Subj: Hello

    Daniel,
    Looks like we're in a bit of bind right now. QA signed off on the 3G 2.0.1 update despite not testing it fully. (The guilty parties are being punished as we speak.) For the time being, could you write another pro-iPhone article? Be sure to mention how it is "substantially less buggy" than competitors phones, and how beautiful it is. Also, be sure to make a jab at Zune (the Internet always eats that stuff up.) It'd also be great if you could work chair throwing in there as well. Thankfully, the masses eat up tired memes without even realizing it. One article should buy us enough time and mindshare to fix these issues.

    Sincerely,
    Steve

  8. terrible article by jettoblack · · Score: 5, Informative

    First off, the firmware that was just released was 2.0.2, not 2.0.1 which had been out for a while already. Second, Apple never claimed that this update contains the 3G fix. As usual, they have been secretive and cryptic about what the update actually contains, but this was just a minor update, not the big radio firmware fix we've been waiting for. And finally, although a few people have complained about the GPS in the new version, most of the reports seem to indicate that the GPS has IMPROVED.

    Disclaimer: I own an iPhone and am suffering from the 3G issues. I'm certainly no fan of the way Apple has handled this so far, but this article is just a pointless and error-filled troll.

  9. Re:Oh, come on by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because Apple gets a premium for its product based on the style and the "just works" philosophy. Nearly everyone will agree that apple products do not have the breadth of features or the extent of customization of many other products in their respective niche. Their market success has been based on the basic feature set being nearly bulletproof - a claim that many others cannot make. This is exactly the thing Apple users have come to forget happens with mediocre CE.

    It also means that someone wasn't minding the store when it went out, and it can mean a serious problem with their growth process. Steve can't be around to hold their hand forever.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  10. Re:Oh, come on by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why are bug reports on the iPhone always blown way the hell out of proportion?

    My twenty dollar Nokia doesn't drop calls, nor have service interruptions, or any of the other problems the iPhone has.

    A six hundred dollar telephone ought to work. Period. There is no such thing as "blowing it out of proportion."

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  11. Re:Oh, come on by value_added · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why are bug reports on the iPhone always blown way the hell out of proportion?

    Maybe it's because some are insisting that a phone should be able to make phone calls, while other are using a metric based on "user experience"?

  12. Re:Oh, come on by sqlrob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's what else is on the market. It is a perfectly fair comparison, the iPhone doesn't live in a vacuum.

  13. Yep I noticed the wrong ver in the article too by JohnnyComeLately · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am more frustrated at the fact it has to do a complete reload, not just a patch. I've been generally happy with my iPhone (3G) but tying up your phone for almost 30 minutes while it downloads (at work no less) isn't pleasant. Then, I absolutely had to use it and forgot it was still downloading. I had a brick until I could spend another 10-20 minutes doing a "restore". The Apple software doesn't update after a restore, so guess what...I clicked, "Next" thinking it would continue to something else, but nope, got to wait another 20 minutes while it restored a second time.

    As far as changes, I still have keyboard lag and the little quirks it had before 2.01 and 2.02. Battery drain I can't comment because I'm constantly plugging it in due to the habit I formed after having it die so often the first week I had it. I now instinctively plug into the car charger while driving, plug in at work, and then plug in at home. I even leave a cable attached to my XBOX360 to charge (even though the 360 won't recognize the iPhone like it would my iPod Video).

  14. just like the iProduct by Gothmolly · · Score: 4, Funny

    "I buy Apple products. It just makes me feel special."

    http://cache.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  15. This really brings me more joy than it should by not+already+in+use · · Score: 4, Funny

    Makes me want to whack some crazy Apple fanboy with a one-button mouse while they're down.

    --
    Similes are like metaphors
  16. It's all Steve Jobs' fault for yelling by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I happen to know the guy who headed the RF software group for the original iPhone. He's a low-key sort, from the industrial high-reliability real time world. He did not like being yelled at by Steve Jobs. So, shortly after the first iPhones were out and working, he quit.

    Apple found someone else to do the 3G version. Probably not someone from the industrial high-reliability real time world.

  17. Re:"it just works my ass" by quanticle · · Score: 4, Funny

    Vista: It Just Works (on tomorrow's hardware)

    --
    We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
  18. Re:"it just works my ass" by DriedClexler · · Score: 5, Funny

    No way man, you're forgetting how Macs are like, TOTALLY the gold standard in interface design unless you want to do something crazy like look up stuff in the help feature or add titles to a video or change the box sizes for titles in iMovie or close a rules window in Mail without having to hide your dock or extract stills in iMovie without adding the still to the video or have it wait until you're finished recording multiple videos before it makes you wait for it to break them up or upload a picture to photobucket that iPhoto has kidnapped or actually have a fucking clue what your emails to others will look like when you embed pictures in the text or want to see at a glance which email address you're sending to or use Adobe Acrobat without annoying update warnings that require good reflexes to turn off or charge your iPod without having good enough reflexes to keep it from deleting everything when you don't want to sync or move the iPod library on one computer to another or ...

    Oh, I'm sorry, was it hard for you read all of that in one sentence? Now, pretend I told you that that style was the gold standard in writing, and now you know what it's like to use a Mac.

    --
    Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  19. Re:Oh, come on by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Funny

    They've come down in price that much? I mught buy one once they get out of beta.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  20. Then Turn Off Apple Stories. by illegalcortex · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1. Click "Help & Preferences" (top of the screen).
    2. Click Sections (under Index).
    3. Under All Sections, find Apple.
    4. Click the radio button for the "no" sign (an "O" with a slash through it).
    5. Click Save.
    6. Reload Slashdot main page.
    7. Stop complaining.
  21. That's the problem by MattW · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, some independent analysis has shown that's the issue - the firmware is too anxious to jump to EDGE. Another problem is that in some places, ATT's equipment is placed at 2.5G distances, but 3G needs closer towers, so ATT needs to step up and get some upgrades in place. But there are a lot of indicators that it's the immature software ON the infineon chip, not the chip itself, that is causing issues.

  22. The Plural of Anecdote is Not Data by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...however, since everyone is offering anecdotal "evidence", I'll point out that we have two 3G iPhones in our home, and neither have had 3G issues. A few applications crash on startup, but most of my apps run just fine, before and after the 2.0.2 update.

    My biggest gripe is -- Apple has neither stated there is a known 3G connectivity problem, nor did they state the 2.0.2 patch contains a 'fix' for any such problems. So ask yourself, how have these people writing articles about it able to claim such a thing? The answer is, the same reason everyone thinks there's a widespread problem with 3G... hear-say.

    --
    Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
  23. Re:"it just works my ass" by Belial6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I haven't used a Macs enough to complain about them, but I've been using an iPhone for a few weeks now. I'm not going to say the device is crap, it's not, but I definitely would not call the UI a gold standard. I'm still trying to figure out who's nephew they hired to make the decision that you should need to plug the phone into an entire computer to get audio onto this wifi device. I mean really. They shipped a wifi enabled, web surfing music player that cannot download PODCASTS from the internet. I do find it funny though that when Apple implemented a UI element that has been in Lotus Notes from the beginning, the UI element magically went from being the worst thing ever to being a gold standard.

  24. Re:"it just works my ass" by 7Prime · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I do agree that WiFi transfer would be nice, I would hardly call that a UI problem. That's more like a missing feature than a UI problem or inconsitancy. I've never used Lotus Notes, so I have no idea what UI element you are refering to with the last statement.

    What I don't understand is, where is the BLUETOOTH transfer? Isn't this what Bluetooth was DESIGNED to do, is to sync hardware devices by simply being in proximity? My Mac Pro has Bluetooth, my iPhone has Bluetooth, so where's my auto-sync?

    --
    Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.