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Spectacular Fossil Forests Found In US Coalmine
Smivs passes along a report up on the BBC about the fossil forests found in coal mines in Illinois. "The [US-UK] group reported one discovery last year, but has since identified a further five examples. The ancient vegetation — now turned to rock — is visible in the ceilings of mines covering thousands of hectares. These were among the first forests to evolve on the planet, [according to] Dr. Howard Falcon-Lang... 'These are the largest fossil forests found anywhere in the world at any point in geological time. It is quite extraordinary to find a fossil landscape preserved over such a vast area; and we are talking about an area the size of [the British city of] Bristol.' The forests grew just a few million years apart some 300 million years ago; and are now stacked one on top of another."
Cities of Bristol is now an accepted measurement of area? And here I thought I was paying attention to SI conventions. How many libraries of congre
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
You too will be a fossil.
We've got an energy crisis to deal with, remember?
are the places where there is both coal and limestone. The same place that was once a forest that got fossilized then got covered by the sea. Scratch through the limestone and you find fossilized sea shells etc. Go deeper and you find fossilized twigs and leaves.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
A hectare is fine, too.
What I don't understand from the article (yes I RTFA) is why this fossil forrest needs to be viewed from below? Was all the commercially interesting coal beneath the tree fossils, or is there a scientific reason to approach it bottom up?
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
"It is quite extraordinary to find a fossil landscape preserved over such a vast area; and we are talking about an area the size of [the British city of] Bristol."
Without the edit, I may have thought it was a reference to someone else...
Let's burn it!
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
The Babylonians didn't exist?
Some images better than the crappy one with TFA. Or just go to the source: http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/research/coal/fossil-forest/
The GP post asked about "libraries of congre," clearly a misspelling of "libraries of conger" as in [[daggertooth pike conger]], a species of fish. So we're really talking upwards of 7,000 libraries of conger rather than 47 libraries of congress.
My dad and grandfather used to work in the coal mines in the southwest Virginia and eastern Kentucky area. They used to find bits of fossilized plants all the time.
Though I doubt they found anything as largescale as what is presented in the article, my grandfather did bring out of a mine a fossil tree trunk/root system that he placed in his front yard. I very distinctly remember playing on it as a child, it was quite large.
My apartment is approximately 675 nano-Britols.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Who cares about Bristol, how many Football Fields is it?
The BBC article, as well as the OP, are quite devoid of additional linkage. Anybody have anymore on this? Don't be a smartass and point to Google or you'll be the first one tossed into the LHC singularity.
Sig this!
I see a solution for global warming...
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
God, how I love the lunatics who believe all those urban legends. Where would we be without them? Oh, yes. We'd be in a modern society where science is taught and skeptical thinking encouraged.
I thought it said Fossil Ferrets
You realize, don't you, that you're suggesting that coal seams have been laid down within the past 100 years? Thinking about it rationally would suggest to you that these items were dropped in the coal mine by miners, not laid down along with the coal. Or how do you propose they got there, to be found many meters below ground?
And the brethren went away edified.
I was going to ask for a citation, but a simple Google for "items found in coal" resulted with Impossible Stuff Found In Coal And Rock
Going from there you'l find more, but its odd that they are (from what ive found) all from the late 1800's/early 1900's... which my scepticism seems to over-ride as just wives-tales sort of stuff... a sort of joke that got taken seriously... or just to make the papers...
Not to say that I necessarily believe that its 300 million years old either, because coal can be made in a 10 thousand years as well, and probably even sooner given the right conditions...
More evidence for Noah's worldwide flood.
>clearly a misspelling of "libraries of conger" as in [[daggertooth pike conger]]
You've used the wrong collective noun for such an aggregation of conger. According to this it should be a swarm of [conger] eels. They just don't seem very bookish to me. :-) They are tasty, however.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Is this not a big enough story for US news companies to cover?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I never cease to be amazed by the Earth's ability to record it's own history in the most remarkable detail.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
Forests still standing while getting fossilized? Wood not rotting? Something must have covered them in a very short time.
its odd that they are (from what ive found) all from the late 1800's/early 1900's...
Might it have something to do with the decline in home coal use and/or far more automation of coal transport in the mines? Meaning fewer people who see an odd piece & have opportunity to break it open?
Just wondering if that could be part of the explanation...
Did I say overlords? I meant protectors.
In this case, the coal has to be older then the trees. Thay's where they get the date.
I can show you links of people claiming to see big foot, ghosts, and angels. That don't make it so.
I mean look at that tripod post.
An unverified find by a 10 year old boy from an unidentified location containing an unidentified bell with unquantified composition claimed to be encased in a material that was believed to be coal.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Since all these 'finds' are unverified I wouldn't look to hard.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
And not just for cement materials. You might be able to burn it for the carbon compounds.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
As we all know protecting fossils is more important then energy.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It's laughable where they come up with these astronomical numbers. Items that have been found in coal seams include bells, shoe soles, toys, spoons, spark plugs just to name a few. Yes they appeared to be "fossilized" in the coal but if we are to believe these guys, that spark plug that was found has been there for 300 million years. Unbelievable.
You're having us on, aren't you? Oh you mischievous rapscallion you! Well played sir, indeed!
Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
The absence of theism is not an absence of faith. For that you want agnosticism. Atheists require faith to believe that there is no God, and nothing else outside their perceived world. In reality, this viewpoint requires more faith than any religion, because all religions offer "proof" that they are true. Not so for atheism.
Now, how much energy can we get out of these old deadbeat forests!
This one is a few miles from my house.
n 1884, coal miners working the Black Diamond mine in New Straitsville, southeastern Ohio, went on strike when the Columbus and Hocking Coal and Iron Company cut their pay from 60 cents a ton to 40 cents. Legend has it that other miners, unhappy with the work stoppage, loaded several coal cars with oil-soaked firewood and rolled them into the mine.
It's hard to imagine what benefit they anticipated, but I bet they never dreamt of what resulted.
For the next 122 years and counting, the underground fire, called the Devil's Oven, has burned in the coals seams around the Monday Creek area. At times the fires have been prominent and close to the surface. In fact, in the 1930's tourists came to the area to watch their guides cook meals over smoking holes in the ground.
During the depression, a WPA crew was dispatched to the area to fight the fire, with indifferent success.
The Ohio Department of Natural Resources estimates that to date the Devil's Oven has consumed 276 million tons of coal, or 20 square miles of the black gold. Today the fire is burning about 40 feet underground... from blog of Tom Barlow
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
...How would a dog react in a fossil forest??? Would it be like the old bugs bunny cartoon that ends with the book. "A tree grows in brooklyn?"
Joe Investor
Thanks to AC, we have some more detail as to what this fossil bed reveals about this ancient forest:
http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/research/coal/fossil-forest/fossil-forest.shtml
Thank you.
Sig this!
Coal mining used to be the backbone of southern Illinois. My father and his best friend were lifetime miners. My heart would bleed at some of the stories they told.
Imagine being a young nerdling and hearing stories of intact, fossilized snakes in the ceiling. "Wow! Did you call the university? Who cut it out of the ceiling?"
No one did. The mines were there for one reason, to produce coal to sell. Priceless finds were blasted every year because the business had no room for science.
The devil put those fossils there.
Layers of entire forests do not turn into fossils via slow, gradual change. I'm not trying to ignite any stupid arguments here, but has anyone read of a geological theory that covers such widespread, repeated mudslides or mud bursts?
Greetings folks,
I'm Scott Elrick from the Illinois State Geological Survey, one of the researchers involved in the original discovery. Here's a little background:
* This current story is an extension of a story from a year ago. When the story broke, I popped onto Slashdot to answer questions - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=232903&cid=18936603 (ignore the misspellings in those posts!)
* As a result of the publicity, I used some of the guts of my postings above to put together this webpage: http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/research/coal/fossil-forest/fossil-forest.shtml I tried to make a 'general public' kind of site that covers most of the basics and posted all of the pictures we took.
* From the guts of the webpage, I put together a magazine article for 'Outdoor Illinois' on the discovery. Here's a PDF (direct link) of the article - http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/research/coal/fossil-forest/Outdoor-IL-art.pdf
* By the end of the year we made it into the top 100 stories of 2007 in Discover magazine - http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jan/fossils-of-a-300-million-year-old-forest-found
* There should be an article coming out in Smithsonian magazine about the discovery in a few months time.
Now to the current news.
Our colleague Dr. Howard Falcon-Lang of the University of Bristol, UK is heading up a multi year research effort to examine the Desmoinesian - Missourian boundary in the Middle Penn. Howard, Bill DiMichele of the Smithsonian Institute, John Nelson and myself of the ISGS, Isabel Montañez of UC Davis and Neil Tabor of SMU will all be collaborating to work out the paleobotanical, sedimentologic, CO2, and climate history of this large scale climate transition. Really this is more an announcement of further research than of results!
As flat as Illinois is, we do have a pretty good record of this transitional period Rocks in Illinois? Who knew!
Cheers!
p.s. I covered a fair amount of ground in my previous postings last year in terms of answering questions. I'll pop back later this evening and see if any more pop up though.
Everyone knows that Haekel is a Young Earther...
Sure. I'm just interested in how he's going to weasel it.
And the brethren went away edified.
Thanks!
"Bristol City" is also cockney rhyming slang.
The forests grew just a few million years apart some 300 million years ago; and are now stacked one on top of another.
This can't be - Sarah Palin told me the Earth is only 6,000 years old!
Seems to support biogenic coal formation. Unfortunately in this age of 25 megapixel pocket cameras, the only record we have of these forests is a 433x253 thumbnail.
before you get /.ed
...but since carbon dating is all wrong, obviously this forest existed only 150 million years ago.
Wait, no, I've just been told that this fossilized forest was created for us to find, around 6,000 years ago. Just like carbon dating.
ARGHHH! Pirates would care a lot about tackling a ship set up to Bristol Standards (or in Bristol Shape-don't know the correct term...can some Limey Navy buff help me out here?)
Bristol Standards/Shape meant that the ship was set up correctly, top of the line, all shipshape-ready to kick ass.
At one time, it meant your ship was 'Ready For Freddy...Bring it on!'
I think I learned this on Star Trek NG when Picard was explaining it to Riker on a holodeck excursion!
Correct me if I'm wrong (HaHa! Can't castrate me, I'm already a UNIX!), I would welcome the input.
P.S. This thread has veered so far from the topic I feel no guilt about muddying the waters further.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Exactly how many bristols is it? Will we be seeing Elricks as a sub-measurement of bristols?
> Exactly how many bristols is it?
Take care there: in the UK "bristols" is (or was when I was at school) a shortening of the Cockney rhyming slang: "Bristol City" (think female anatomy).
What's the U.S. equivalent of a Bristol?
What?
The earth was warm enough during the Carboniferous that there were no ice caps or glaciers. Tropical forest grew like mad close to the polar regions. Atmospheric CO2 could have been a half-percent, or a mganitude higher than now.
I dunno... when you get God to actually come down and have a face to face talk with you, _then_ you'll need an analogy with a partner in religion.
Of course, the guy is playing hard to get. Even Moses couldn't get a talk to him in person. It's the "for the day thou see my face thou shalt die" guy, ya know? So I don't think that both atheists and theists won't need to stretch that analogy any time soon.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Theism has always been the default state for our human societies.
There's little evidence of this before about 10,000 years ago. Confounding the issue somewhat is that there's little evidence of anything man-made from before about 10,000 years ago. And there is some theory that the cognitive evolution that helped us build societies and thus create the capability for leaving evidence also lead to the rise of religions.
I'm not disagreeing with your main point about practical usefulness, though it is confusing to define people by what they're not, especially when using the label of people who claim moral superiority.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
dude, you rock!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.