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Microsoft Says IE8 Phoning Home Is "Pretty Innocuous"
CWmike writes "Microsoft has defended the IE8 tool that suggests sites based on URLs typed into its address bar, saying that the browser 'phones home' only a limited amount of information to Microsoft and that the company discards all user IP addresses almost immediately. Company managers also contrasted IE8 Beta 2's 'Suggested Sites' feature with the 'Suggest' feature used by Google Chrome, saying that Microsoft's requires the user's explicit permission before it's used. They did acknowledge a bug that prevents the request from reappearing when users reinstall the browser. Cyra Richardson, a Microsoft principal program manager on the IE team, said: 'Suggested Sites is connected to the browser's history, and it's not looking at each of the keystrokes. IE only captures the URL as it is navigated [to], when that URL goes into your history.' Nor does Suggested Sites log and transmit cookies to Microsoft's servers, as does Google Suggest, Richardson said. 'The data we log is actually pretty innocuous.'"
"We are going to use the data to sell you Zunes?"
If Google does it, they do it because they "probably have to." Luckily, they said they "do no evil" so that means they're absolute good and thus immune to scrutiny.
If Microsoft does it, then they're obviously logging all the data on you and plan to sell it to the highest bidder, to use to pay for restrictive DRM technologies and run over old ladies in the street. Though you do not have facts to back up the last statement, you've always conceded that they are a luxury around here. Besides, Microsoft is a convicted monopolist, which somehow magically changes all the rules on logical arguments, or something.
Did I get it all right? I know there's nothing about Apple in here, but I'll try harder next time.
So, we see "targeted" ads and have "suggestive" sponsorship in other browsers in exchange for getting the browser for free.
Isn't IE a part of Windows, and don't we sort of pay for it already?
Google bought youtube and has shown me videos related to ones I watched about a month after they bought them. Their horrible privacy standards need to be complained about a little louder. I think a big spyware browser that follows you around and reports back where you go is where we should draw the line. However, Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that just because google's browser is worse, that doesn't mean IE8 is okay.
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
I absolutely hate site suggestions when I mistype an URL. Why? Because if the url contains the phrase "kicks-ass", my ISP starts advertising porn.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
They will get the point. Until M$ buys the computer and pays the electric bill to run it, nothing absolutely nothing that happens on it is any of their business. They should be sued for electronic monitoring without a warrant!
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
A big, powerful, arrogant company is telling me that their very iffy handling of my personal data is "OK" because some other big, powerful and arrogant company is already doing pretty much the same?
Oh, I feel much better now...
Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
Microsoft and Google should just publish the exact data exchange protocol used by their respective "smart search" features -- and keeps those documentations up to date, of course.
The protocols are gonna get out, anyway -- someone will snoop them out soon enough. Better have an official documentation than endless wild rumors, and the whole thing would hardly cost any resources.
Well, as long as it's "pretty" innocuous, I guess it's OK. /sarcasm
As for that annoying Google Suggest, I killed that by having my proxy add the "SG=0" item to the PREF cookie. Dear Google (and Ask), Traffic for every keystroke is messed up.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
If Microsoft wants to log data back to the home base for IE 8, it should do one of 2 things, since it's a beta. 1) before install, clearly acknowledge that they WILL be collecting data, and more precisely, describe exactly what the data will be or 2) ask users if they wish to let Microsoft receive data and again, a description of what that data will be.
Would one not think that it would be just common courtesy to do that?
1) After installing IE8, webcam tracks your movements around the room.
2) Strange giggling from PC speakers when you Agree to the EULA.
3) When you start Spybot Search & Destroy you get a phone call from someone sounding an awful lot like Jerry Seinfeld threatening your pets.
4) Paperclip is back, and now its mad.
5) The next time you hear the phrase "actually pretty innocuous" is in President Palin's speech about what happens in Loyal Citizens' Youth Brigade moral rectification camps.
6) You printer puts job sheets at the beginning of each document. Job sheets with coupons for Brawndo.
7) Activity gadget in upper right hand corner of browser is a Total Information Awareness icon.
8) Entering URL for Chrome download page redirects to gay furry bondage snuff porn site.
9) After refusing to upgrade to IE8 you wake up to find the Firefox's severed head on your bed.
10) Ghost of grandmother appears to you in dream, begging you to install Ubuntu. Which is just plain weird because she was a Slackware fan!
I am sick of hearing how XYZ is ok because "Look, foo does bar!". It annoys me in politics, and it annoys me in the disgusting race to the bottom that is our handling of the "consumer desktop". Yes, I know that google is injecting ads into my dreams, that doesn't mean I want microsoft pulling my url history. Yes, I know that EA prefers DRM that is draconian and incompetent, that doesn't make "fairplay" any fairer.
/rant
People need to stop hiding behind the even worse failings of others, and start justifying themselves in terms of why they don't suck rather than why the suck incrementally less than the other guy. FFS.
If it's opt-in then how is it a problem? They're not forcing you in any way.
The fact that Microsoft tosses the IP info shortly after getting it does not negate the fact that the data is all being shipped to them. That sounds like a very nice setup for any covert agency who wanted to set up a place to monitor browsing behavior and map it back to users. It doesn't matter whether Microsoft doesn't keep the info if someone else does. Could this be happening? How would we know?
P. Orin Zack
---
I write pointed political and business short stories at http://klurgsheld.wordpress.com/
there is a reason why when i boot into my little used xp install i have things like " mshearts " ( all preinstalled MS games) and media player, and crash report form calling home they do not need to call MS and give them "who knows what".Except i do know what it is when excel crashes my tax info and like
"I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
After all most users who pirate Microsoft products discard most of them almost immediately.
Yeah that works doesn't it? If you violate someone's right's it's not okay just because you do it for a short time! Cuts both ways.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
> Besides, Microsoft is a convicted monopolist, which somehow magically changes all the rules on logical arguments, or something.
Just in case your sarcasm is a cover for ignorance: Having a monopoly in one area limits the amount of tying to other areas you are allowed. The idea is that you are not allowed to use your monopoly in one market, to get an unfair advantage in another market. Probably not relevant in this case.
Here's how to find if they respect your privacy. Use IE8 to view CP sites. If the party van shows up at your place, they don't. Simple, huh?
Let me get this straight - so Chrome logs every keystroke? I'm reading that Google is hardly 'anonymizing' our data.
What's to stop a gov't subpoena from getting my exact letter-for-letter browsing history over the next 9-18 months?
I don't understand how this works.
If Microsoft says they destroy any IP addresses and details when they receive it, will they sign a contract with all users confirming that? Will they repeat it under oath on penalty of perjury?
I will believe a corporate only when it is under oath.
Sorry.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
little bit here. little bit there. pretty soon its aggregated and sold to others who do more combining. privacy, once lost is never regainable. And those who collect the pieces don't care if they get some pieces wrong. Microsoft sold its soul long ago. Never trust or believe Microsoft words or products. At least Google doesn't own the OS. And thank goodness for Mozilla and Opera.
Um, in both cases, you, the consumer, are the product in that you're using a product/service that's ultimately for someone else's good. In Google's case, it's the advertisers. In Microsoft's case, it's themselves and with the introduction of Vista, it's also the media companies vis a vis the DRM built into it.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
There can be sensitive data in the GET arguments, much more than just which site you have visited.
Can someone post the urls or ip addresses that need to be stubbed out in my hosts file? Thanks!
Comparing to Google with regard to privacy is like comparing to Microsoft with regard to ethics. You almost always look good.
"We're not evil," said Google. "We just want to know your confidential business data, bank account details, medical information, personal preferences in pornography and DNA code. Microsoft ... they want to make you use Windows Live Search."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Wow, I'm impressed. Googling for "gay furry bondage snuff porn" produces your post here as the top hit only a couple hours after you posted.
Aside from being impressed, I'm also somehow disappointed... ;)
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
A kdawson story that wasn't a complete piece of sensationalistic tripe. I suppose it was bound to happen just based on random chance. But I'm still slightly worried. Good thing I'm not into the rapture, or I might be concerned about being taken u
would be for browsers to have auto correction feature in the address bar. I've typed a comma many times into the bar by accident and no website uses them but why does the browser insist on searching first before telling me the address is incorrect. It should note the error and replace it with the full stop.
Jonathanjk.com
A quick check of this revealed that you are now number one! Congratulations...I think.
I read msie in the tag as mslie... im sure its a lie.
... me not upgrading to IE 8 is pretty innocuous too!
Shadus
This would be one of the major reasons I use Firefox or Chrome, and completely and utterly ABHOR IE.
It's the word "almost" which is killing it for them.
No sig today...
Or could you choose another browser?
Now, can you remove IE from windows?
RATIONAL THOUGHT, PEOPLE!
Now that a lot of us are capped on our use, is Microsoft going to reimburse us somehow for wasting our service?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
There are two features already present that help alleviate that situation.
First of all, there are the key combinations that automatically fill in the protocol name and TLD (check the help file).
Second of all, THE BACKSPACE KEY YOU GREAT CLEFT. Come on!
When you use Dogpile to search the search engines, does it pass along your browser's uniquely identifying stuff to Google, Yahoo and LiveSearch? Or does it muck up Google and MS's gathering up of your data?
Of course, that doesn't stop Dogpile themselves from spying on your searcher which are run thru them.
..... making a back-up of their shitty OS for personal use isn't innocuous, it's theft.
Amazing how Microsoft always get found out with this 'hidden phone home' stuff, they always make some really lame excuse, and nobody ever actually does anything about it.
... the company discards all user IP addresses almost immediately.
A lot can happen in the time frame of 'almost immediately' when running a computer capable of 11+ terflops.
Just fire-up wireshark and you'll see that when you startup Firefox on Fedora 9 it phones home too.
Home in this case is start.fedoraproject.org. And be aware that it still phones home no matter what settings you give it ( as in not to check for addon updates and when you set a different start page other than start.fedoraproject.org).
Shows a pink slip coming in the mail from the employers of the parent and grandparent. Apparently something based on inappropriate google searches using company computers :-)
"We don't keep the IPs, we promise"
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Aw, man, I fired *myself*? And couldn't even be bothered to do it face-to-face. What's the world coming to these days! :)
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Ahh, but the real question: if you fire yourself can you sue the company for wrongful termination?
My previous comment was, of course, a jest. Personally though, I wouldn't want *that* particular link to show up on my browsing history where my wife/boss (if you're self-employed are those both the same thing) could see it.
Is that thing still around? I thought it died from irrelevance years ago.
Oh well, I guess there are still people using black-and-white TVs too.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Wow, I'm impressed. Googling for "gay furry bondage snuff porn" produces your post here as the top hit only a couple hours after you posted.
Aside from being impressed, I'm also somehow disappointed... ;)
Cheers,
lol