Slashdot Mirror


Hackers Clone Elvis' Passport

Barence writes "Hackers have released source code that allows the 'backup' of RFID-protected passports, although the tool can potentially be used to create fake or cloned documents. The Hacker's Choice, a non-commercial group of computer security experts, has released a video showing a cloned passport being approved by a security scanner at a Dutch airport. When the reader scans the passport, it is revealed to belong to one Elvis Aaron Presley, complete with picture. Reports of the hackers serenading security staff with 'Are You Clonesome Tonight' are unconfirmed."

164 comments

  1. Obligatory by Gandalf_Greyhame · · Score: 5, Funny

    Elvis has left the building

    --
    I am not stubborn. I am right!
    1. Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      On a day when we are going to be giving hundreds of billions to dodgy bankers, on a day when suicide bombs have returned to Baghdad, on a day when the most influential vice-presidential nominees for a lifetime will go toe-to-toe, surely there is more important news for /. to report!

    2. Re:Obligatory by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      Well, none of the above were too surprising, right? So this deserves the headlines just for being damn funny amidst all the other bullshit that's going on.

    3. Re:Obligatory by Gandalf_Greyhame · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I think you have things a bit messed up there, AC.

      Hundreds of billions of dollars to dodgy bankers - Financial news
      Suicide bombers returning to Baghdad - War correspondence
      Vice-Presidents going toe-to-toe - Political news

      Whereas the RFID protected passports being essentially cracked is technology news.

      One of these types of news belongs inherently on "Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters" the other 3, whilst they may have a place, are not obvious inclusions

      --
      I am not stubborn. I am right!
    4. Re:Obligatory by tinkertim · · Score: 1

      Elvis has left the building

      Well, if your a programmer .. you can only conclude that Elvis is re-entrant and thread safe.

      He left, re-entered and again left the building while leaving behind a small local mess to clean up.

      If only it were (just *) local ....

    5. Re:Obligatory by BlueStrat · · Score: 5, Funny

      Elvis has left the building

      Elvis has left the building

      And the other Elvis has left the building

      There, fixed that for you.

      Cheers!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    6. Re:Obligatory by tinkertim · · Score: 4, Funny

      Elvis has left the building

      Elvis has left the building

      And the other Elvis has left the building

      There, fixed that for you.

      Cheers!

      Strat

      Well, sort of .. but where do I find MAX_ELVIS ?

    7. Re:Obligatory by JustOK · · Score: 2, Funny

      with his blue suede shoe bombs

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    8. Re:Obligatory by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Son, those are all "technology" news at some level.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:Obligatory by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 5, Funny

      There, fixed that for you.

      Thank you, Thank you very much.

      Elvis

    10. Re:Obligatory by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, sort of .. but where do I find MAX_ELVIS ?

      #include <rock-n-roll.h>

    11. Re:Obligatory by Stooshie · · Score: 1

      Does that count as rickrolling?

      --
      America, Home of the Brave. ... .and the Squaw.
    12. Re:Obligatory by ehaggis · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sorry, he cannot leave the building, he no longer has a valid passport.

      --
      One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
    13. Re:Obligatory by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ever since that cracker got me
      I found a new place to dwell.
      It's down at the end of cloned street
      At pwned hotel.

      (chorus)
      You make me so cloned baby,
      I get so cloned,
      I get so cloned I could die (again and again).

      And although its always crowded,
      You still can find some room.
      Where broken hearted users
      Do cry away their gloom.

      (chorus)

      Well, the spammer's mail keeps flowin,
      And the desk clerks dressed in black.
      Well they been so long on cloned street
      They ain't ever gonna look back.

      (chorus)

      Hey now, if a cracker gets you,
      And you got a tale to tell,
      just take a walk down cloned street
      To pwned hotel.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    14. Re:Obligatory by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      after the above comment I believe that should be:

      #include

    15. Re:Obligatory by theeddie55 · · Score: 3, Informative

      if slashdot reported everything that was "at some level" technology news, it would just be a news site.

    16. Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, damnit. These are SERIOUS times. Stop having fun, people.

    17. Re:Obligatory by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      Surely it should be "Elvis has left the country"

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    18. Re:Obligatory by RemoWilliams84 · · Score: 5, Funny

      That would be the greatest rick roll ever. Have them scan your passport and it come back with Rick Astley's picture followed by you singing never gonna give you up at the top of your lungs. I'm beginning to see a whole reality show here.

      --
      "I don't have to think. I only have to do it. The results are always perfect, but that's old news." - Meat Puppets
    19. Re:Obligatory by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Y'know, the Preview button is there for a reason...

    20. Re:Obligatory by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      I noticed... :)

      I also noticed that the dunce that wrote the code to take the content of this box can't program.

      It can't be too hard to parse those brackets...

      it was supposed to be:

      #include <rick-n-roll.h>

    21. Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a plural - it should be MAX_ELVII.

    22. Re:Obligatory by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

      Oh, come on. Everyone knows that P2P Killed Elvis

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    23. Re:Obligatory by Trespass · · Score: 2

      if slashdot reported everything that was "at some level" technology news, it would just be a news site.

      No, it would be a conspiracy theory clearinghouse.

    24. Re:Obligatory by Faylone · · Score: 1

      So...same as now?

    25. Re:Obligatory by Bobb+Sledd · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to DECLARE variable Elvis as type KingOfRock.

      And also don't forget to VOID on the throne procedure.

      (wah wah wah)

      --
      "They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
    26. Re:Obligatory by arfonrg · · Score: 1

      1) We are forced to give "hundreds of billions to dodgy bankers" all the time...

      2) Suicide bombs go off in Baghdad quite often...

      ...so all that is old hack. Elvis being alive in a Dutch airport? THAT'S NEWS!

      --
      Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    27. Re:Obligatory by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      No, it's because he got the html to text and plain text modes messed up. Try submitting stuff in plain text with added tags. they get interpreted. While in html to text mode they don't. This message was written in plain text mode to prove the point.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    28. Re:Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are hackers now playing "Jailhouse rock"? :)

    29. Re:Obligatory by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      No, sorry it wasn't. This was using the 'new' and improved submission form.

  2. I for one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...welcome our new Elvis passport bearing overlords.

    1. Re:I for one by BlueStrat · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      In Soviet Russia, Elvis passports clone YOU!

      Sorry, it was just too tempting.

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    2. Re:I for one by master5o1 · · Score: 1

      Drop the Elvis from that one: ..., passports clone YOU!

      --
      signature is pants
  3. I can fix that for you... by codefrog · · Score: 5, Funny

    That little problem goes right away... just add "Elvis Aaron Presley" to the no-fly list.
    We is all secured again, and permanently this time!

    1. Re:I can fix that for you... by RuBLed · · Score: 5, Funny

      Elvis will be so pissed when he returns in 2012.

    2. Re:I can fix that for you... by davester666 · · Score: 5, Funny

      He's coming back for the Olympics? So, he's just be away all this time getting back in shape?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:I can fix that for you... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Thank god those religious fanatic terrorists will never figure this out.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:I can fix that for you... by master5o1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah he's going to make that opening ceremony so much better than China's. Oh wait I don't think you can get more awesome than a publicly displayed BSOD.

      --
      signature is pants
    5. Re:I can fix that for you... by EasyTarget · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hello,

      You have used our copyrighted phrase '2012', thereby destroying the branding of the British Olympics. You owe us 12Bn poonds.
      We look forward to recieving your remittance by return.
      - IOC IP enforcement department.

      --
      "Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
    6. Re:I can fix that for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell did this get modded "interesting"?? Is there some widely accepted theory about Elvis returning in 2012 I've missed?

      Who the hell gets mod points nowadays?

    7. Re:I can fix that for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Elvis will be so pissed when he returns in 2012.

      "Score:5, Interesting"

      Try again, modboys. Sometimes I wonder what you guys are thinking when you moderate posts like this. Don't you see that it should have been modded informative instead of interesting. Amateurs.

    8. Re:I can fix that for you... by Sebilrazen · · Score: 3, Informative

      How the hell did this get modded "interesting"?? Is there some widely accepted theory about Elvis returning in 2012 I've missed?

      Who the hell gets mod points nowadays?

      Probably related to the end of the Mayan Long Count calendar, which was really accurate for 5,125 years, but it all of a sudden ends on the Winter Solstice in 2012, nobody knows what's going to happen.

      I like to think of it as Peter Venkman said, "Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!" Elvis caused mass hysteria, ergo Elvis comes back.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    9. Re:I can fix that for you... by seededfury · · Score: 4, Informative

      "nobody knows what's going to happen."

      yes we do. Life goes in earth's new cycle of 26,000 years...

      Prophecy is bullshit stemming from a religious mind.
      from http://www.crawford2000.co.uk/maya.htm
      "Over a year's time the Sun transits through the twelve houses of the zodiac. Many of us know this by what "Sun sign" is associated with our birthday. Upping the scale to the Platonic Year - the 26,000 year long cycle - we are shifting, astrologically, from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius. The Mayan calendar does not really "end" in 2012, but rather, all the cycles turn over and start again, vibrating to a new era. It is as if humanity and the Earth will graduate in the eyes of the Father Sun and Grandmother Milky Way. "


      For as long as I have been alive, doom and the end have always been so close but unfortunately it's always a lie.

    10. Re:I can fix that for you... by Toad-san · · Score: 1

      Aw man ... that's hard! I was just thinking, now nice that Elvis is NOT on the No-fly List, and then look what you gotta go and do: give those dopes over at Homeland Security ideas :-(

    11. Re:I can fix that for you... by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Indeed. There's nothing like being dead for a few years if you want to lose weight.

    12. Re:I can fix that for you... by supernova_hq · · Score: 1

      Ah, so Elvis will return on January 8, 27935.

    13. Re:I can fix that for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard it was for tax purposes.

    14. Re:I can fix that for you... by offrdbandit · · Score: 1

      What do you know? 2012 is the start of Colonization! Whoever told you there's nothing to 2012 is just part of the conspiracy!

    15. Re:I can fix that for you... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      It's also entirely possible that the particular Mayan behind carving out that particular calendar simply couldn't be arsed going any further (or died before getting any further).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  4. hilarious! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I wonder if it would be possible to just have a bunch of RFID chips along with your passport so they weren't sure which one they were reading? Although elvis would probably give it away :P

    1. Re:hilarious! by BackwardHatClub · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The 4 hour stop at security would be really hilarious...!

  5. He doesn't need to fly by mangu · · Score: 2, Funny

    just add "Elvis Aaron Presley" to the no-fly list

    Won't work. Elvis is everywhere

  6. Be careful... by Anton+Styles · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Personally, I'd be rather careful when it comes to ID fraud... Don't want to end up doing the Jailhouse Rock

    --
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
    1. Re:Be careful... by technolectro · · Score: 2, Funny

      You have a Suspicious Mind.

    2. Re:Be careful... by Thiez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, the Dutch don't own a little piece of Cuba, so no need to panic. Also, laws are relatively sane, so I doubt the people who did this are going to get in trouble, especially since the copied passpart is so obviously fake, and merely proof-of-concept instead of something to be used in an evil plot to take over the world.

    3. Re:Be careful... by Patrick+Georgi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At least in Germany, ID cards are considered to be federal property, so changing data on it could be considered malicious mischief.

    4. Re:Be careful... by Incadenza · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the Netherlands passports are state property to. If your passport gets lost, you have to pay for a replacement (obviously) *plus* you get fined for losing government property!

    5. Re:Be careful... by EasyTarget · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately the current mob in (sort of ) charge here are right up the illiberal-fuck brigade's arse.

      When it was recently demonstrated that the new national travelcard is broken (Mifare) the response was a typical mixture of outrage, damming everybody as criminal, and refusing to accept that people with science degrees are a darn sight smarter than the bunch of PR/MBA wankers who fell for the Mifare sales spin.

      --
      "Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
    6. Re:Be careful... by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      America also doesn't own a piece of Cuba, it's leased, and the lease is disputed.

    7. Re:Be careful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except in the video, you see they are using a simple blank card. So the ID cards where not from the government in the first place.

      The detection equipment is probably build and bought by private companies, so fooling these also do not involve the government either.

    8. Re:Be careful... by Thiez · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The card they use in the video doesn't appear to be a real passport, only the chip (that may or may not have been removed from a password). Even if what they did is illegal, I would be extremely suprised if anyone involved were to end up in prison, although they may be fined, especially if they got the chip out of a real passport (like you suggested).

    9. Re:Be careful... by mikkelm · · Score: 0, Troll

      Apparently being Dutch makes you very naive as well. Forging government issued documents is a serious crime no matter where you are, regardless of how benign it might be, and that certainly does not constitute a lack of sanity.

    10. Re:Be careful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you don't get fined, at least I didn't.

    11. Re:Be careful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously you've never lost your passport, good for you. You have to pay for a replacement, but you don't get fined.

    12. Re:Be careful... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Personally, I'd be rather careful when it comes to ID fraud... Don't want to end up doing the Jailhouse Rock"

      In the US...is it actually against the law to carry fake ID? Is there a law that actually requires you to carry proper ID....?

      I mean...is it against the law, for me to identify myself as Joe Shmoe...all day long...as long as I don't actually try to commit a crime under that name or commit fraud under that name?

      I think the only time you're actually obligated to identify yourself, is to the cops if they are investigating a crime, and even then, you just have to tell them your real identity.

      I know laws vary a great deal from state to state, but, is there really any law on the books that says you have to go by your real name?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Be careful... by anomnomnomymous · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

      I lost my passport once, didn't get fined.

      --
      When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
    14. Re:Be careful... by spikedvodka · · Score: 1

      Possession is 9/10s of the law... and in this case the other tenth doesn't belong to the person who argues it in court with a lawyer, but to the person with the "Peacekeeper*" aimed at anybody who disagrees

      *Yeah, I know, all of the peacekeeper missiles have been decommissioned, but the point still stands

      --
      I will not give in to the terrorists. I will not become fearful.
    15. Re:Be careful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In modern Soviet Amerika, you wouldn't be in jail either.

      You'd be in Gitmo.

    16. Re:Be careful... by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      Well, if you forbid your populace to visit a certain island but at the same time you annex a part of it and commit all kinds of crimes there (I hope we can at least agree on that) then I think it raises hypocrisy to a new level.

      Guantanamo bay is a blot on American history and it will take generations before it will be erased.

  7. Now we just need by goddidit · · Score: 1

    Security scanners with suspicious minds.

    --
    This .sig is exactly 120 characters long.
    1. Re:Now we just need by game+kid · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

      --
      You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  8. Osama Bin Laden by Krneki · · Score: 5, Funny

    I dare anyone to fake the ID of Osama Bin Laden and try to get to the US.

    --
    Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    1. Re:Osama Bin Laden by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Funny

      I would suggest a very fat white guy in a flannel shirt : )

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    2. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Imagine a plane full of Osama Bin Ladens arriving to the US.

      I'd pay to see that :D

    3. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well I triple DOG dare you to do it.

    4. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is slashdot. That doesnt really narrow it down now does it? :P

    5. Re:Osama Bin Laden by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's OK - they already assume everyone who isn't white is Osama Bin Laden.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
    6. Re:Osama Bin Laden by david.peace · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't be too hard. Just make sure you apply for your visa in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. That's where most of the 9/11 hijackers got theirs.

    7. Re:Osama Bin Laden by master5o1 · · Score: 1

      No no do Saddam Hussein. He's dead so no one will care. Right?

      --
      signature is pants
    8. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Sebilrazen · · Score: 1

      This is slashdot. That doesnt really narrow it down now does it? :P

      He meant Michael Moore, circa his Roger & Me days.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    9. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Kvasio · · Score: 1

      I would suggest a very fat white guy in a flannel shirt : )

      Do you really want to put Marlon Brando in situation of this kind?

    10. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Sporkinum · · Score: 1

      That's Osama Bin Forgotten.. Fixed that for you.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
    11. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should get an 80 year old grandmother to carry the ID card. I see them "randomly searched" all the time.

    12. Re:Osama Bin Laden by cparker15 · · Score: 1

      Right, because it couldn't possibly have been one of his doubles.

      --
      Have you driven a fnord... lately?

      You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later.

    13. Re:Osama Bin Laden by supernova_hq · · Score: 1

      Another vote for instigating a "-1: Bad Mental Image" mod.

    14. Re:Osama Bin Laden by Poltras · · Score: 1

      Wow I wouldn't like to live in your world...

  9. WHOOSH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Joke <----------------

    Your head <----------------

    Why don't you actually try clicking the link?

  10. Vote for Stephen Harper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good old Neo-con Steve will help us out of the financial crisis. Look how well he did in the french debates last night!

    1. Re:Vote for Stephen Harper! by karbyn-aceous · · Score: 0

      He's a total retard. How anyone could vote for him I'll never know.

  11. Misconfigured scanner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This "hack" just worked because scanner they used to validate the passport permitted self signed certificates.

    Of course, it is good to show that scanners must be properly configured to be any good.

    1. Re:Misconfigured scanner by prefect42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Schneier looks to be wrong about multiple CAs. They don't cause the problem he's talking about.

      Without having a global CA:

      UKCA can make certs
      USCA can make certs

      I trust certs from both CAs. I only trust UKCA with certs /C=UK and USCA with /C=US. Both CAs can make certificates for the other country, but that doesn't mean the end user trusts it.

      jh

      --

      jh

    2. Re:Misconfigured scanner by master5o1 · · Score: 1

      Both CAs can make certificates for the other country, but that doesn't mean the end user trusts it.

      You mean the end user knows what a CA is?

      --
      signature is pants
    3. Re:Misconfigured scanner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh, yes, you securely understand it better than schneier.

  12. I saw Elvis! by FornaxChemica · · Score: 1

    Hopefully that fake Elvis passport will get in the wrong hands, that would help spotting illegal immigrants and terrorists trying to enter the country. Gotcha!

  13. Before passing through security by BackwardHatClub · · Score: 5, Funny

    Please remove your blue suede shoes.

    1. Re:Before passing through security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wise men say, only fools rush in.

    2. Re:Before passing through security by zwarte+piet · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why? Nobody is going to step on them..... because they're: 1) for the money 2) for the show

  14. Any have a link to the video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One that doesn't require flash.

    1. Re:Any have a link to the video? by sxpert · · Score: 1

      how about getting youtube-dl ?

    2. Re:Any have a link to the video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about getting youtube-dl ?

      How about it? I tried it before posting.

      ~$ youtube-dl http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-3185369830560352967
      ERROR: no suitable InfoExtractor: http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-3185369830560352967

  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. Bad title by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can't clone Elvis' passport; They didn't have access to the original.

    They created a passport with fake details which matched the identity of another person. Nothing was cloned. I bet it wasn't even his passport picture, but a stock photo from the web.

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    1. Re:Bad title by apt142 · · Score: 1

      Ah... but the real question is: Why did they use the young Elvis Picture over the Old Fat Elvis Picture?

      Maybe they didn't clone Elvis' passport but made Clone Elvis' passport.

      Completely brain dead minds want to know...

    2. Re:Bad title by wvmarle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which, from the face of it, makes the feat even more impressive. Cloning means "simply" reading the data from one passport, and copying it onto another. It is not necessary to decrypt this data, as long as the chip is tricked into releasing it.

      Instead, they created a completely new data set, put this on the chip, and programmed the chip so it correctly answers to the challenge posed by the reader.

      Now the idea of having the data encrypted in the passport chip may be wishful thinking of course... I would expect it is encrypted, if not then it's of course one step less for these hackers. At the very least I would expect some cryptographic checksum, based on some secret key or so, to verify that the passport (i.e. the data on the chip) has been government issued.

      No matter what, a neat hack, and scary that it is possible in the first place.

    3. Re:Bad title by AngryLlama · · Score: 1

      Ah.. is that why it is Elvis' and not Elvis's.. Young Elvis and Fat Elvis are two different entities.

    4. Re:Bad title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Details like that are kind of irrelevant to the point of this article. Which is that an obviously fake passport was created and it was approved by airport security. Thus making the entire security theater even more pointless then it was already.

    5. Re:Bad title by apt142 · · Score: 2, Funny

      The mystery of the Elvii is a deep and dangerous one.

  17. That's not a security console... by Neelix21 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have no idea what kind of console that is, but it doesn't look like much of a "security console" to me.

    This movie only shows that they have succesfully created a cloned passport, and that the scanner does not do any security checks. This was already demonstrated some time ago at a local town hall.

    Doing this again at an airport adds nothing but hype. It does not prove that security in those things is broken.

    --
    Don't worry, it's all just 1's and 0's anyway...
    1. Re:That's not a security console... by Ren+Hoak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It does not prove that security in those things is broken.
      Ok, so by your words, being able to create a document that contains blatantly false information, and successfully using that document to bypass security doesn't prove that "security in those things is broken". What, pray tell, would be required beyond this to demonstrate that security is broken? Because, you see, in my simple view of things, if you are "Bob" and security is on the lookout for "Bob", and you show them a modified password claiming that you're "Neil", and security lets you through because as far as they can tell you aren't "Bob", security has been compromised. When security is based on human inspection of said passport, clearly it's subject to human error. When security is electronically based, such as the case with RFID, all but the most basic of human interaction should be removed from the "is this a real passport?" equation.

    2. Re:That's not a security console... by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      What security portal EXACTLY did he bypass? The device he used to scan this simply read the RFID and barfed the data to the screen. It did ZERO signature checking on the PKI encrypted data else it would have flagged the signature as either being broken or signed by an invalid CA.

      What part of that did you not understand? The post you responded to is 100% correct and accurate.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    3. Re:That's not a security console... by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Actually not 100% correct - this isn't a cloned passport. This is a modified passport else the signature would be correct and it would pass any security check in the world that only looked at the RFID data.

      Cloned passports aren't an issue, modified passports that pass crypto checks would be an issue. This passport is modified but it does NOT pass those checks when done properly - the person doing this work will say as much if you ask him and it's something he makes plain in his talks - or did at BH anyway.

      Cloning easy, properly modified not. This device would be stopped at a properly designed security portal.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    4. Re:That's not a security console... by BlackCobra43 · · Score: 1

      Except in this case "Bob" is not pretending to be "Neil", he's pretending to be "Jesus H. Christ". You'd figure someone, somewhere would throw up a red flag at that.

      --
      I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
  18. Never let a computer do a job that can be done by by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Never let a computer do a job that can be done by a human."
    I just can't agree with this.
    People can be fooled easily enough and the more that's automated properly the better. A human(well thousands of them) *could* do all the interest calculations at your bank but it would be stupid to do it that way.

    There are loads of jobs out there which are better done by machines.

  19. Re:Never let a computer do a job that can be done by master5o1 · · Score: 1

    And loads of jobs that need to be double checked by machines after originally being done by Humans. Come on we need jobs too! Just because Computers are relatively cheap to feed and don't pay income tax doesn't mean they're the best tool in the shed.

    ASdpojd pja oh sorry laptop i didn't mean to insult you.

    --
    signature is pants
  20. As Jamie and Adam would say ... by Stavr0 · · Score: 1
  21. Hahahahahaha by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Of course we already knew, when U.S. passport encryption was broken in all of 2 hours, that this was inevitable.

    And the government did it all in the name of more "security".

    But as we know, it is actually less freedom, and LESS security. This is just more proof.

    1. Re:Hahahahahaha by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Umm, you do not know what you are talking about. By all means provide a link to a credible source on the crypto on the US passports being broken. Note that the same crypto is being used around the world - it's part of a "STANDARD" and is using a lengthy known good crypto algorithms.

      All this demo proves is that there are devices happy to read the RFID and not do any security checks. As this presenter has explained in his talks modifying this data, the way he does it, requires either a self signed cert or a broken PKI signature. A device with proper security checks in place can spot both of these kinds of modifications if it was implemented properly. In fact the Gold Disk for which countries build their software to emulate even flags some of his changes - they just don't flag them as critical in that particular code base. What any country does in THEIR implementation however is anyone's guess 'cuz they ain't talking about it...

      This man gives a good talk on the subject, sadly it's apparent that you either didn't understand it or never bothered to attend it. You might want to adjust your tinfoil though, it's a bit too tight.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  22. Im am so dissapointed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When i read the headline, i thought they had made an Elvis clone from leftover DNA on his old passport. :(

    1. Re:Im am so dissapointed by Sebilrazen · · Score: 1

      Ewww.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
  23. Smart IEDs by JackSpratts · · Score: 1

    From the related article:

    "Thanks to the ePassports is it now possible to build Smart-IED's. A Smart-IED waits until a specific person passes by before detonating or let's say until there are more than 10 americans in the room. Boom." -John Doe

    isn't that lovely.

    - js.

    http://blog.thc.org/index.php?/archives/4-The-Risk-of-ePassports-and-RFID.html

  24. Sorry, proves nothing by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This isn't a security scanner anymore than the previous scanner he checked out at his local Govt building - in fact it's probably nearly the same damned thing! This is simply a device that is showing the data on the chip - I'm not convinced that it is doing ANY security checks that a "real" security scanner would do. How smart would it be to put a machine out with the same checks as a security portal to allow counterfeiters to practice on? Umm, Duh?? Cloning easy, modifying of data NOT!

    Yes, the data has been modified and the signature broken, it remains to be seen what the scanner will do when it sees a broken signature or self signed cert on the passport. As was explained in the talk at BH SOME countries HAVE exchanged PKI information so at least some countries ought to be aware of what the signature SHOULD look like and SHOULD be able to spot fakes. It's also not clear that modifying the security file on the passport to change what security protections it reports isn't going to be spotted either since passing THAT information is also possible. Lastly, passing trusted PKI around need not actually take place - if I see 500 German passports who ALL have the same PKI signature and 1 that doesn't it's a pretty good bet that the *1* has an issue! No secret squirrel passing of certificates required in that case.

    Bottom line is - no one knows exactly what the various security stations will actually check for and how closely they really follow the lax security of the Gold Disk standard that much of this presenters testing was based off of. The only way to know any of this is to attempt to USE one of these or get the Govt's to talk - what are the chances of THAT?!

    So, interesting demo but I'm not convinced it proves that fake passports with *modified* data can be made. At least some better understanding of how the data is being stored and interacted with has occurred I'd say...

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    1. Re:Sorry, proves nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hint is at the bottom of the page: the certificate chain was not verified (it's blue, not yellow). This is a picture of the golden reader tool, the most common *demo* software inspection system out there. Same goes for the device at Schiphol airport, which is used to show citizens what data is stored on their passport to create awareness.

      The PKI used on the ePassport is standard CMS with X509 and normally with high key-sizes and even SHA-2. There is very little chance of someone breaking the protocol. AA relies on the signature over the data itself, a true inspection system won't allow a missing DG15.

  25. Giving Fair Use a bad name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Backup? Seriously? Who on earth needs to "back up" their passport data? And what possible use is a "back up" of your passport data? You can't legally create yourself a new one if the original is lost.

    Look, I'm not a fan of the enormous faith being placed in insecure formats on passports. And I'm sure people want to point out security flaws, and I'm fine with that.

    But publishing an obvious exploit under the guise of a "backup tool" is just BEGGING for people to sit up and take notice of "gee, maybe we need to rethink the notion of 'backing up' always being fair use...."

    1. Re:Giving Fair Use a bad name... by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Can you explain what exactly is insecure here? Other than the fact that anyone who understands the protocol can read your passport there's nothing insecure here. He's either self signing the data and the device in question isn't checking the signature against a PKI database or the passport has a broken signature which apparently this this device might also not check. A proper device would spot these changes but why would you put such a thing out where counterfeiters could test against it?

      His software is pretty interesting and he's explained a great deal of how the device stores data. The great unknown is how other devices process that data when passing through a portal - that software isn't available. Who wants to be the guinea pig?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  26. Summary wrong by Ecyrd · · Score: 1

    RFID does not protect technology. Saying something is "RFID-protected" is just like saying "my access point is WiFi -protected". Eh?

    RFID is a carrier technology, with a number of different frequency bands, with each of their own application area: some can be read from afar, some offer high transfer speeds, some work well close to metal, some need large antennas and some need small ones.

    Some RFID tags just contain an ID (and are usually of high range and low speed), and some tags contain loads of data (meaning a low range and high speed). Unfortunately, people tend to lump all RFID as a single thing, which muddles things somewhat. However, they have no more in common than say, HAM radio and WiFi. You can't say that WiFi is bad because HAM radio lacks security ;-)

  27. Obvious Fake by jea6 · · Score: 3, Informative

    For conspiracy theorists: Elvis' middle name was Aron, not Aaron, right?

    Wikipedia says "Presley's genuine birth certificate reads "Elvis Aaron Presley" (as written by a doctor). There is also a souvenir birth certificate that reads "Elvis Aron Presley." When Presley did sign his middle name, he used Aron. It reads 'Aron' on his marriage certificate and on his army duffel bag. Aron was apparently the spelling the Presleys used to make it similar to the middle name of Elvis' stillborn twin, Jesse Garon. Elvis later sought to change the name's spelling to the traditional and biblical Aaron. In the process he learned that "official state records had always listed it as Aaron. Therefore, he always was, officially, Elvis Aaron Presley." Knowing Presley's plans for his middle name, Aaron is the spelling his father chose for Elvis' tombstone, and it is the spelling his estate has designated as the official spelling whenever the middle name is used today. His death certificate says "Elvis Aron Presley." This quirk has helped inflame the "Elvis is not dead" conspiracy theories."

    --

    sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
  28. Re:Never let a computer do a job that can be done by Laebshade · · Score: 1

    He left out a key word: "better", so rewrite it as this:

    Never let a computer do a job that can be done better by a human

    As you said, there are lots of jobs that computers are better at; I imagine the best case scenario (in a dream world?), when it comes to security, would be a combination of computer and human security.

    But that's just my armchair opinion.

  29. Misread the headling for a minute and was happy by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    For just a minute, I thought hackers had successfully cloned Elvis. Then I saw it was just his passport.

    Oh well, it's a start.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  30. Old Story by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 1

    I've seen some time ago on BBC Lukas Gruenwald from Germany reading his own passport data.

    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
  31. It's not "Aaron" by Illbay · · Score: 1

    Anyone who knows ANYTHING about Elvis lore, knows that his name was oddly spelled:

    Elvis ARON Presley.

    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
  32. Everybody owes The King something by ajparr · · Score: 0

    This proves it -- everybody owes The King something...

  33. simpsons did it by teabaggs · · Score: 1

    and racier too. Times article

  34. Elvis is alive! by asCii88 · · Score: 1

    This is of course fake. He was Elvis for real.

  35. Who should be held accountable for this? by dma1965 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some of you may feel this is not "newsworthy", but this illustrates a very important point. Lets look at the whole voting machine mess. The machines were CERTIFIED by the States they were used in. That means that the certifying body agreed that they met all requirements. Yet, once hackers found all of the security flaws in the system, the voting machine manufacturers were "lynched" in the court of public opinion. Lets look at the whole financial mess we are in. The Federal Government is paid by taxpayers to oversee our economy. They failed miserably at this task, and now are trying to saddle taxpayers with the burden of fixing the mess. Ultimately, our Government and the Governments of other nations approved this RFID Passport System...a system which was, at least in part, intended to address security concerns. Now that it is coming out that this too is a failure DUE TO A LACK OF OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY AT THE GOVERNMENT LEVEL, who is going to be blamed this time? Security experts have nearly exhausted themselves trying to get the message out about a lack of security in RFID Passports (and other RFID systems), but are all but ignored. Ultimately, we are all getting what we deserve, because we are simply allowing those we have put in charge of assuring our well being to fail over and over again, and we simply foist the blame on everyone else but those we have employed to prevent these messes from happening. WAKE UP SHEEPLE !!!!

    1. Re:Who should be held accountable for this? by initdeep · · Score: 0, Troll

      line breaks are your friend and will most likely get more people to read your tinfoil hate postings.

      like this......

    2. Re:Who should be held accountable for this? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Aren't RFID passports just DRM for people? DRM is a proven unsolvable problem. Why expect them to get it right?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  36. I'm confused by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

    The data, photo and all, are actually stored on the passport? Why doesn't the passport just have an ID that's linked to the TSA's database and the rest of the information pulled from there?

    This seems like really bad architecture if true...

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
    1. Re:I'm confused by Sique · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because passport data is supposed to be read by foreign authorities. Or would you vote for a big worldwide database containing all humans passport data, and accessible by every gouvernment of the world?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    2. Re:I'm confused by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      No, I'd vote for a database that was controlled by the government of the country issuing the passport and selectively allowed connections from different countries with varying levels of permissions. You know, like most well-planned IT systems.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  37. On another note. by seededfury · · Score: 1

    No No No... we all know that the ancient people of the earth had it all figured out. They were actually communicating with gods at the time unlike modern men who are just out of touch.

  38. Even real cloning is an issue by illegalcortex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, even cloned passports are an issue. They're just one you can't do a lot about very easily.

    They're an issue because if you can find someone who looks vaguely like you and clone their passport with or without their cooperation, you can assume their identify. Just alter your features a bit from what is in the picture. If they have medium-long hair, get a buzz cut. If they have no facial hair, grow a bear, mustache. Or vice versa. This is especially effective if you are in a minority in the country you are using the passport, as the "they all look alike" effect will carry you very far. For extra measure you can practice forging their signature.

    Yes, it's a less effective exploit, but one that is a lot harder to guard against. Even if you put more biometric data in the passport like fingerprints, retinal scans or even DNA, the realities of passport processing lines make it unlikely you will be caught.

    1. Re:Even real cloning is an issue by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Fingerprint information IS being placed in some passports I believe and the accuracy is high enough and the scan speed quick enough that I do not think it will be feasible to use a cloned passport. Modified passports are the danger, right now I do not think there's enough information out there on how the various specific systems act when presented with faulty passports to know just how bad this issue might be. Even this researcher didn't og so far as to try it on a real machine! Really, who wants to be the guinea pig for THAT experiment?!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    2. Re:Even real cloning is an issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they don't check your fingerprints, so the fingerprint information is irrelevant. Cloned passports will be a BIG problem.

  39. Re:Never let a computer do a job that can be done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...like creating opaque financial derivatives that crash the banking system.

  40. Re:Never let a computer do a job that can be done by qopax · · Score: 1

    I mean, that's a pretty dumb quote to begin with, isn't it? I cannot think of ANY job that absolutely cannot be done by a human, while possible for a computer. We haven't invented true AI yet, have we?

    There are jobs which would take infinitely longer for humans to do, but they still CAN be done, theoretically, I guess.

    --
    I pwn this comment. "The Fine Print" says so.
  41. Why is this News? by fm6 · · Score: 1

    Everybody knows Elvis is still alive.

  42. Say What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems no one knows that Elvis's middle name was Aron, not Aaron. So who are the dummies here?

  43. Re:Never let a computer do a job that can be done by arth1 · · Score: 1

    There are pros and cons of both humans and computers.
    One big drawback with computers is that when you find a way to fool them, you can use that over and over again (until a human intervenes).

    A human can realise that the ruleset is inadequate for the job, and raise questions. Like if a passport image checks out with the facial recognition that matches facial features, but the person on the picture is clearly asian while the person in front of him is caucasian. A fully automated system would let this pass over and over again, never realising it was making mistakes.

    That said, a human system will never be smarter than the human who does the job. And when the key factor for hiring someone isn't how clever they are, but how little you can get away with paying, don't expect too much bright individual thinking.

    My recommendation: Test the problem solving ability and common sense of security screeners, and refuse anyone with less than average skills. And pay enough that you will get applicants who are smart. Then pay a small bonus for every person rightfully detained, and a small malus for every false positive, incorrectly detained person.

    You can entice a human person to think and do a better job, but you can't entice a computer.

  44. Hate to be a dork... by macsox · · Score: 1

    ...But an astute security screener would note that Elvis Aron Presley's middle name was misspelled, and have cops swarming all over the passport holder in seconds.

  45. I hate this article! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    I'm too young to get all the jokes in the comments! :(

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  46. Re: 2012 by An+anonymous+Frank · · Score: 1

    Look, population was lower back then, and they just ran out of good lookin' "Mr. January"s, okay?

  47. I am not the ignorant one here. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    The fact that the type of cloning mentioned in this article does not necessarily require cracking does not mean that it was not done or not doable. Quite the contrary. These stories have been all over the internet. First, a biometric passport issued by the Dutch government was cracked in under 2 hours (and read from a distance, by the way). An article about that was linked to right here on Slashdot:

    http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/07/0214220

    This type of passport meets international standards and is accepted by the UK and the rest of the EU, as well as the US. In fact these are the standards that the United States insisted upon and uses itself. Here is another article about that (pdf):

    http://www-scf.usc.edu/~sheetals/publications/RFID_epassport.pdf

    And finally, if you do not believe that RFID chips that ARE IN USE in the United States are crackable, yet meet the standards of International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) -- which is the relevant standards body here -- here is yet another article explaining it:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/nov/17/news.homeaffairs

    There are many, many articles out there about this, but these three should be enough to convince a reasonable person. Your claim that I don't know what I am talking about won't wash. It was done. It is demonstrable and provable.

    The problem here is that YOU are confusing the encryption itself with the implementation. If the implementation is poor (as it is in the passports), any encryption is crackable. The UK passports that were cracked used 3DES. Big deal! They are so poorly implemented that they WERE cracked, and quite easily. So take off your own tinfoil blinders, and take a real look around you. Obviously you do not understand as much about this subject as you think. So go learn something yourself, before making such smug smart-assed remarks to other people.

    1. Re:I am not the ignorant one here. by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Sorry, NOT cracked! Cloning != cracking. Figuring out the 3DES key to have a conversation with the chip in order to CLONE it is != to "cracking it". Reading a passport simply gives you the data off of it, it does NOT allow you to MODIFY that data. Go ahead and make a COPY of the passport - if you've got a twin and the passport doesn't have biometric data on it.

      What YOU are misunderstanding is that 3DES is NOT the crypto that underlies the PKI signature that protects the data ON the passport from being MODIFIED. 3DES is what protects the ability to open a conversation with the chip - the key of which is information already in the passport. Being able to talk to the chip buys you NOTHING if your goal is to create modified passports.

      It seems that it is YOU who have something to learn about this and not I! Wake me when you successfully modify a passport and retain the PKI signature it was issued with - the PKI signature that the REAL scanners will check when you go through a portal. Right now the only way to modify a passport is to self sign and hope they don't have the PKI signature stored at the reader or break the signature and hope that the reader doesn't notice. Lastly, these articles claiming that the Gold Disk software is recommended for use in airports are wrong - it's a refrence software standard only and I'd be shocked if it was actually USED anywhere stock out of the box. That first link you provided that makes it sound like successful mods were done gets this part WRONG, even the Gold Disk software flags mods as errors - just not critical errors. The person who wrote the software presented here talked about it at BH - he has the Gold Disk software - but has NO idea how countries have implemented their real software. His only real world test has been demo machines at his local Govt. office and now this airport machine - big deal.

      BTW - this information on 3DES was included in the links YOU posted, a shame you didn't comprehend it.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  48. What the hell are you talking about? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    Quote: "Figuring out the 3DES key ... is != to 'cracking it'"

    If getting someone's encryption key is not "cracking" their encrypted data, then what is? I would be interested to know your definition. In just about everybody else's opinion, getting someone's encryption key is "cracking" their encryption.

    (We are NOT talking here about "cracking" 3DES... that is another subject entirely. If you thought so, I do not know where you got that idea. I never made that claim. This conversation is about "cracking" specific instances of encryption. Nobody mentioned anything about breaking general encryption algorithms. Nor -- as was precisely my point -- is it necessary to do so. I stated that the PASSPORT's encryption had been cracked -- and it had. I sure as hell did not say that 3DES had been! Apparently you have assumed I am some kind of idiot. Try again.)

    In any case, since you brought it up "A computer researcher cloned the chips on two British passports and implanted digital images of Osama bin Laden and a suicide bomber. The altered chips were then passed as genuine by passport reader software used by the UN agency that sets standards for e-passports."

    If that ain't changing the data on an INTERNATIONAL STANDARD passport (read those other articles!), then what is? You took a case where it was clearly done, and then claim it isn't so. Sorry... but you will have to supply some solid citations to demonstrate this. You have cited nothing to actually dispute that this was done, you have merely offered your opinion. So... since you insisted that I supply citations, do the same. Who knows? Maybe you will even convince me. But if you do not, then I am done with this discussion; I have provided citations, you have not.

    As for your last comment, I did NOT claim that 3DES was cracked. I do not know where you got the idea... as you say yourself, the cracking of an encryption key is NOT the same as breaking the general encryption algorithm. I claimed only the former, never the latter. Get it straight. At least then maybe you would at least understand what you are arguing about.

    1. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Again for the slow among us...

      The 3DES crypto protects the conversation between reader and passport. th key to this is information contained in the printed passport material. Being 3DES breaking the crypto to read the passport isn't impossible. Once you've broken through this super secret key you get *drumroll* the data PRINTED on the passport. Umm, big deal? With this data you can make a CLONE of the passport - nothing more - that will pass a security checkpoint.

      Yes, in this "demo" modified data was displayed. In oprder to modify this data one of two things were done 1) the PKI signature was broken or 2) The PKI signature was replaced with a self signed certificate. In both cases the passport would fail a proper security check and you'd be taking a quick trip to secondary for some serious explaining! So much for your successful "crack" huh? Where you and others get midlead is the demo that displays the data on a device that does NO security checking and simply reads off the RFID data. The fact that this was done in a Govt. office space and then in an airport means nothing - it's not a REAL security check.

      As for the Gold Disk software that the UN standards committee produces... that software is designed to verify that the RFID and reader communicate properly according to the standard and it does exercise the various security checks. Guess what? The modified passport DOES flag errors when it reads his modified passport - they just aren't flagged as critical errors. This software is designed to help countries design their OWN indigenous software for their own portals, it is *NOT* used as the real software in ANY country. It doesn't flag as critical errors such as the PKI signature being broken.... sound like something any country in their right mind wouldn't flag?!

      Truly, you do not understand this subject nearly as well as you think you do....

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  49. By the way by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    from the first article: "But only ten of the forty-five countries with e-passports have signed up to the Public Key Directory (PKD) code system, and only five are using it. Britain is a member but will not use the directory before next year.

    Even then, the system will be fully secure only if every e-passport country has joined.

    Some of the 45 countries, including Britain, swap codes manually, but criminals could use fake e-passports from countries that do not share key codes, which would then go undetected at passport control. "


    And further: "The International Civil Aviation Organisation said: 'The PKD ensures that e-passports used at border control points . . . are genuine and unaltered. In effect it renders the passport fool-proof. However, all states issuing e-passports must join the PKD, otherwise that assurance cannot be given.'"

    So passports are STILL vulnerable, regardless of your precious PKI signature. Funny how YOU did not notice that.

    Once again, as I mentioned before, we are speaking of the differences between the security of strong encryption, and the security of the actual implementation.

    Given the half-assed implementations, I maintain that they still give us LESS security, not more.

    1. Re:By the way by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Actually there's some misunderstanding there. Yeah, there's a group that's supposed to be handling the exchange of keys and not everyone has signed up. Funny thing about passport portals though - they see LOTS of traffic. If I see a signature of say Russia's passports oh maybe 100 times a day don't you think that I'm going to know what the signature looks like? And that when a "signature" comes through that is different than the previous 1K passports I might perhaps wonder why and flag it? The files to check this signature are ON the passport, which is why self signing even can come close to working apparently.

      So, a country need not sign up for the global PKI directory in order to be able check signatures if they want to. As for not being "fully secure" until all countries sign up - that's crap. If I am signed up and you come through with a member passport and it doesn't check out then I flag you - the only people who had to be signed up were my country and your country of origin NOT every single other country. Without doing my own signature capture to increase my library it's true I cannot electronically check every other passport but I still have the security for those countries that have signed up.

      BTW the same sort of thing holds true for his trick of modifying the onboard security features file which you've not mentioned. If I know that every Russian passport contains XYZ security features and suddenly one shows up claiming to not have one of those then I can flag it as odd and take the traveler to secondary. Anyone designing their countries reader software to be secure ought to be taking things like this into account even if the Gold Disk software didn't. The only way to find out if they did is to try and pass through one - which this author certainly hasn't tried!

      As for more or less security - the passports can still be manually checked as they always have been. I do not see this as any LESS security than what was there before - all of these electronic checks are being done in ADDITION to what was done before. Remotely reading these to obtain information to do identity theft requires getting past the 3DES.

      Pick your argument BTW - that the passport concept is\isn't secure or that the countries that are rolling it out are doing it stupidly. The mechanisms to do this securely are there, if no one signs up for the PKI initiative and doesn't check PKI signatures then who's fault is that? Certainly not the designers of the silly system! If I give you a computer to use and you fail to use a password on your account it's certainly not MY fault as the designer of the security that YOU failed to exercise the security options given to you anymore than a locksmith is at fault for an unlocked door.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  50. No changing the subject! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    As I stated from the very first, and repeatedly thereafter, it is the IMPLEMENTATIONS that are weak, not the crypto. But for some reason you don't seem to have picked up on that. Further, you appear to be a selective reader. The case is very clear: until ALL signatory nations start using the PKD, these passports are vulnerable. This is without regard to your precious PKI signature, which (again until they all sign up) is not even required for the non-complying nations. This means the system DOES NOT WORK as it is supposed to!

    I do believe that the system is not secure, but that is not my argument here, and never was. The implementation is pathetic: not only do the passports themselves give away the keys, but until ALL signatory nations start using the PKD (something that will probably never happen), the system is just plain broken. It has a hole in it the size of an oil barge.

    But my final comment is this: you have offered NOTHING here to support your argument except your own opinion. You have had AT LEAST three opportunities to present some facts or citations here to support your argument, but despite repeated requests you have completely failed to do so.

    Cite some independently verifiable facts to support your argument, or go away. That's the way it works. I did, you have not. Unless you do, I have nothing further to say to you.

    1. Re:No changing the subject! by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Again I have told you why all signatory nations do not need to sign up for this PKI repository, choose to not understand that if you wish. The signature protects the data - to date no one has modified the data and retained the signature - no one, not a single person. All we have are demonstrations that get the tin foil hatters up in arms - like yourself.

      Yes, the articles you cite assert issues, and then fail to prove them, but you cite their flawed conclusions as somehow factual. Understand the underlying technology and you will finally understand why the sky isn't falling. This is an added layer of security over and above the checks already in place, called it flawed but it is better and it does work if the reader software isn't brain dead. You will note that not a single demonstration of success has been done against REAL portal software - it's all been done against reference standard software and against software that contains no security checks. What does that prove exactly? This is what you offer up as proof?!

      The real portal software checks signature integrity and should check for the proper registered electronic signature. Even if the signatures haven't been formally swapped through the approved process countries have access to it if they desire and CAN check it...

      Sorry, cannot cite some 'net article that proves this because telling people the system works and how it works doesn't rate as News For Nerds and get posted to Slashdot. Sort of like saying yes the Earth continues to turn, no one cares. Do wake me though if you can find a single instance of someone modifying a passport's RFID data and going through security in say Germany, Saudi Arabia, or Japan.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  51. Re:Never let a computer do a job that can be done by CrazedSanity · · Score: 1

    I absolutely agree, especially when it comes to repetitive jobs. Humans get bored and lose interest in repetitive things quickly; computers, on the other hand, are infinitely patient and don't take shortcuts after too long (well, unless they've been programmed that way/poorly... remember how that one version of Windows deleted command.com if the system was on for 90 consecutive days?)

    --
    Sanity is like a condom: rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
  52. This is getting funny. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    You don't seem to get the point. I don't know why you don't get it. I am not going to call you dense, but you are sure acting that way.

    (1) I made that claim that a passport was successfully altered (actually, first, that the data was cracked). You insisted that I cite references that this was done. I did so.

    (2) You then claimed that they weren't really altered sufficiently to fool the machines, because of your oh-so-sweet PKI signature (which you are still insisting matters).

    (3) So I pointed out -- and cited references to show -- WHY the PKI signature is irrelvant: because only 5 out of 45 nations use it, and so it is quite possible to fake a passport (from 40 out of the 45 that nations!), because no PKI signature is required for passports from those nations! Why have you not been getting this point??? The issue was: the electronics of passports CAN BE altered -- in a short time even -- to pass security. Clearly, this is demonstrated, because you can easily make one that IS NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE A SIGNATURE!!!

    (4) THEN (still refusing to cite ANY actual evidence to support your position, even though you insisted I do so), you changed the subject and claimed that even that doesn't matter, because you still have to print the passport. [Hint here, guy: that is off-topic. We were talking about the RFID, not the printing. Further, the reason RFIDs exist in passports in the first place is because it *IS* possible to print fakes, which has been and *IS BEING* done. So even if this were not a straw-man argument, it is still clearly irrelevant to the real issue here.]

    (5) Finally (I could go on but there is no need), although you have had plenty of opportunity and have been asked several times, you STILL have not provided ANY citations or other evidence that anything you are saying has any credibility at all! You actually have the cojones to argue that my argument does not matter because it is not proven, even though I have cited evidence and you have not. The excuse you gave above is nothing but LAME. The relevant information is out there. You insisted that I find some. You have either not bothered to find your own, or failed to do so... it matters very little which.

    Which means, plain and simple, that you lose the argument... by your own rules. Goodbye.

    P.S. I do not think the sky is falling. On the contrary, I have made the point several times (though not elaborated on it) that this system is broken and so is LESS secure than no such system at all. I do not argue that the sky is falling because it is not as secure as it should be. Rather, I am arguing (from the standpoint of a computer programmer and certified systems tech with many years experience), that the RFID system should not exist at all, for the simple reason that it never will be secure enough. Just like DRM, it is a wild-goose-chase that is doomed to failure.

    1. Re:This is getting funny. by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      1) Data was not successfully altered. A successful alteration would leave the security mechanisms intact - this hasn't been done. In order to alter the data one of two things is done. a) The PKI signature is broken and anyone, even without a copy of the proper PKI signature, can see this. Or b) the data on the passport is signed with a self created certificate which is obvious even if they haven't signed up for the PKI distribution on the basis that they have obviously seen the proper signatuere on hundreds of REAL passports. As for the data being "cracked" - the key to the data was on the printed passport, I'd hardly call figuring out how to properly use the provided key "cracking" but it IS more sensational to say that isn't it?

      2) I've explained multiple times what the PKI signature does but you don't get it. I even explained again above - if you cannot understand this then you will never understand the issue. Modify the passport and retain the original PKI signatory and you've accomplished something - until then you've nto got a working forgery.

      3) Even if a nation hasn't exchanged, formerly, the PKI signature they can still check to see if it is valid. They can also use past examples to spot self signed data. Yeah, the signature matters.

      4) I didn't claim the passport has to be printed I simply pointed out that the printed version is still examined. If you show up with RFID data showing the original owner because you've cloned an RFID signature and all the pic isn't going to match the printed one or you've got a twin. In this case yeah someone might get by if no one notices the two pictures are different - go ahead and bet time in prison on that if you want.

      You want citations? The problem is there's nothing but tin foil hatters getting any press on this. Go read the standards, go actually work with the software. Better yet actually go through a security checkpoint with a modified passport - oh wait no one has claimed THAT have they? No, they simply show the reading of the RFID via devices that don't enforce security and claim success. Success is passing through security unmolested and right now that is NOT a sure thing. That you think this won't work is amusing, if you understand PKI you'd understand that it CAN work and is way better than the paper only versions that have existed in the past. This is the perfect example of what PKI is good for actually - verifying message data. Are you claiming PKI doesn't work?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org