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Oregon Judge Says RIAA Made 'Honest Mistake,' Allows Subpoena
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "In Arista v. Does 1-17, the RIAA's case targeting students at the University of Oregon, the Oregon Attorney General's motion to quash the RIAA's subpoena — pending for about a year — has reached a perplexing conclusion. The Court agreed with the University that the subpoena, as worded, imposed an undue burden on the University by requiring it to produce 'sufficient information to identify alleged infringers,' which would have required the University to 'conduct an investigation,' but then allowed the RIAA to subpoena the identities of 'persons associated by dorm room occupancy or username with the 17 IP addresses listed' even though those people may be completely innocent. In his 8-page decision (PDF), the Judge also 'presumed' the RIAA lawyers' misrepresentations were an 'honest mistake,' made no reference at all to the fact, pointed out by the Attorney General, that the RIAA investigators (Safenet, formerly MediaSentry) were not licensed, rejected all of the AG's privacy arguments under both state and federal law, and rejected the AG's request for discovery into the RIAA's investigative tactics."
what is the point of tagging every story with 'story'? also, the little ! above the tags.. I thought maybe I could 'vote' a tag as incorrect with it, but I've tried so hard to coerce my pointer over the ! only to see it disappear.
This is the shittiest FP ever. It's like you people aren't even trying anymore.
DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
The words "honest" and "RIAA" don't even belong in the same sentence. /sigh
Modding Trolls +1 inciteful since 1999
From which angle do the overlords of hell seem honest?
Damn their oily hides!
Sig this!
Punk bitches' days are numbered.
Several years ago a New Mexico Judge (IIRC) instructed the RIAA to bring further suits against individual defendants rather than join several in one action. For example, there is no accusation here that the various students acted in concert to infringe copyrights -- whatever each of them allegedly did, it was done on an individual basis. Did the University raise this issue with the judge? Does the ruling address it?
Sounds like the defense will have it easy. IANAL, but I'd expect the moment of being served on this one is probably a good time to file the countersuit.
Caveat Utilitor
or is it hard to believe that this and other judges are highly influenced by their own prejudices, to the point that they issue rulings that are legally unsound?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Defending a lawsuit is never innocent. Even if you don't owe them anything, you actually have to prove it. The RIAA will trot our "experts" who will testify that their "evidence" shows you are likely to have infringed copyright. To fight this you at the very least need to pay a good lawyer, and will probably need some experts of your own. Even if you have the skills to represent yourself, you can't recover the cost of your own time spent on this [IANAL but I think that the lawyer's guild got a law passed so that people who represent themselves can't collect attorney's fees if they win]. Now add to this the emotional stress of fighting a deep-pocketed corporation and dealing with the judicial system, and you'll see that there's nothing "easy" about being sued.
...to grease the rusty gears of justice. Too bad the gears don't know which way to turn.
But doesn't the court overstep it's bounds by suggesting, and approving an alternate wording?
Modding me -1 troll doesn't make me wrong.
This is the shittiest FP ever. It's like you people aren't even trying anymore.
It's the economy. We're all worried about being laid off. And job openings for Trolls are few and far between. Why, the RNC just canned a bunch who were originally hired to Troll Digg slamming Obama!
And then there are the McCain trolls picking on his age and anger. They're losing work too because of his poll numbers and the economic worries.
I used to be a Perl troll but then that turned out to fizzle out. I've been trying to break into Python trolling, but then again, it's tough out there. Maybe when I get really desperate, I'll try to get some Apple troll jobs - but they pay shit because, aside from the neo-fanboys, nobody falls for it anymore.
The quality of trolling has gone done horribly too! There was a time when you could create a shit load of comments with something the was actually intelligent - and it was appreciated because it gave the other side a chance and excuse to vent their opinions. Now, it all "sucks", "fags", "you're an asshole", etc... Nothing intelligent. It's sign of our economy. Quality is just going down hill fast!
I have to go back to work. Th RIAA is right! Those kids are stealing music!
How much did this judge get paid for his decision? Because there's no way an honest man could've come to such a conclusion.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
is RIAA paying him?
'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often. -- Seven of Nine
RIAA, Honest, and Mistake used in the same article, thats funny.
Do you know if this is this an appealable order? Can they go anywhere from here, or are they stuck with this judge?
Is there any way to point out to this judge that there's a pattern of conduct here? Or was that in the brief and ignored by the judge? (I think I read these papers, but it was quite a while ago.)
I'm just curious, because it seems like the judge has decided that, whatever the law says, this matter is a waste of their time so they'll give the RIAA whatever they want and ignore the law to get it off their desk, which is truly disheartening.
I wish this judge would have a change of heart and realize what's going on here like the one who set aside the $222k verdict had.
They probably told him they know all about his stolen Barry Manilow mp3s he has on his laptop in his chambers, justice was served shortly after.
> or is it hard to believe that this and other judges are highly influenced by their own prejudices, to the point that they issue rulings that are legally unsound?
It's just you. The other day, there was a Supreme Court decision that said there was 'consensus' in the law that child rape not be punishable by death. Then someone pointed out that there was, in fact such a law. They did not reconsider their decision and the dissenters pointed out that they didn't believe that the decision had been based on any such consensus in the first place, so it was pointless to reconsider.
A while back, we had the $222k verdict set aside because the judge realized that he had, in fact, ignored important precedents (which the RIAA failed to notify him of).
In this case, if I had to guess, the judge doesn't understand why the discovery orders are so important to the defense and simply wants to get through this preliminary crap and to the 'real' case. Not knowing the RIAA, he apparently doesn't realize that they plan to drop their case once they have this discovery and send out settlement letters.
We on Slashdot know the RIAA better than most judges do because we hear about all their cases. Most judges are meeting the RIAA for the first time.
How many times has SCO been given the benefit of the doubt, after all? While we were reading dozens of ridiculous proclamations from them every day, Judge Kimball was busy with real work and it took him a while to catch on to the fact that they were shysters. And once he caught on, they fled his court to get bankruptcy protection. It's been what? Four years? Five? And SCO's case is STILL going on!
So no, it's not hard for me to believe that a judge would presume that a party was acting in good faith, contrary to all evidence, until it was personally demonstrated to them what kind of cock-smoking teabaggers the RIAA employs. After all, remember how many times SCO claimed that IBM was acting underhanded early on? I'm glad the judge didn't just take SCO's word for things. The judge waited to figure out for himself that SCO was, in fact, the cock-smoking teabagger so that he could deal with things appropriately.
The annoying part is that it usually takes the judges a while to realize this, and shysters like SCO & the RIAA make sure they're in a different court by then, whether they have to drop & refile their case or seek bankruptcy protection.
Can this be appealed at all? Obviously innocent people are going to be thrown under the RIAA bus. When so much damage can be done by a subpoena, and many important factors aren't being considered, this can't be left to just the discretion of one clueless judge.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Come on now people, was this really a surprising ending? Let's all hear it for "The American Way". *fap* *fap*
What did she expect? That the horrible stories about poor people and ghettos were just made up? That they would invite her in for a nice southern meal and want her to educate them on the greatness of her journey to change the world? It is a very realistic end, to a very delusional beginning.
Everybody makes mistakes!
Heck, yesterday a book fell on my keyboard - the next thing I know: every Metallica Album right in my incoming folder!
Anyone in the public can submit a complaint to the State Bar. I would be willing to bet a series of submissions of the typical sophistication, quantity, and velocity of a typical /. response would get their attention. NOW.
Jerry
These clowns have started how many lawsuits? There's no such thing as an "honest mistake" at this point in the game. Can the judge be honestly this clueless??
how much did it take to lubricate the Judge?
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
It's understandable due to the collapse of bridges across the country that these poor creatures are being driven onto the net.
Hello, I'm Sally Struthers and here at World Troll Outreach we are helping poor unfortunate Trolls become self-sufficient helping them to move up from living under bridges and harassing goatse or netusers by offering hair dye and Elf/Spook ears so they can pass as nerds and get help desk jobs. Surprisingly Grooming standards for both Trolls and Help Desk workers is very similar.
For pennies a day you can help Please act now.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
So it sounds like t hey don't pee test judges in Oregon?
I guess a lot of people must have made honest mistakes downloading copyrighted music without knowing about it. Guess we might as well throw all those cases out of the courts.
So YOU are RIVSTP. (Actually I knew that from an earlier post here but this was a convenient place to point it out.)
Keep up the good work.
I have no idea what narcotics THAT judge is on-but I WANT SOME! Seriously though, the phrase 'learned jurist' seems to ne an oxymoron these days!
so i headbutted him in the throat, picked up a beer bottle, smashed it on the counter, and stuck him in the abdomen with it as he stood up. after he fell to the floor grasping his throat and side, i took the barstool and smashed his head with it a few times
turns out he was actually addressing the woman sitting next to me
sorry, honest mistake
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
> Good question. Actually, there's a split of authority on the subject.
While I sincerely doubt that will happen in this case, isn't that the sort of thing that can get the Supreme Court to grant certiorari (hear the case)?
I don't know about anyone else, but in the dorms where I go to college, you're assigned a different IP address every single time you log on. Is there anything I'm missing that would actually give them enough information to identify someone with?
Can't someone whose judge was so clearly (and probably provably) corrupt use the courts to sue the judge?
--
make install -not war
Well said. I really think /. should have an 'Adopt a Troll' mission. Most are underrated and deserve more than -nve moderation. Maybe /. should search the archives and firehose a few classic troll posts? An award maybe??
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
The Judge says he really enjoys the way his new Bentley handles and purrs like a kitten on the road.
-- Posted from my parent's basement
Geez I think all future income by the RIAA should be forwarded to the national debt, at least then I would think about buying music again.
Just like the RIAA made an "honest mistake", the judge made an "honest mistake", too.
The standard defense for gay bashing isn't "honest mistake", it's low/high blood sugar or psychological trauma.
I know exactly what it's like to be at the receiving end of a judge who is clueless - due to the idiocy residing in the British court system it has taken a year longer to get someone who defrauded me into bankruptcy. This is what you get when people no longer have to take responsibility for their actions.
But I digress: what's next? Surely there must be a way to get insanity like this corrected? Or would it need a solid public outcry and exposure before this gets corrected? This decision disgraces the system.
Insert
I was being funny. Or trying, anyway.
It's funny you should ask that, because Oregon has early voting, and if they're anything like my state, they should have ballots in hand soon. I already voted this morning, in fact, even though the election isn't until November. You know how after you vote for the presidential election, senators, representatives, propositions & whatnot, there's that HUGE list of judges that you vote "yes" or "no" on? That's a vote to recall them.
So if you see one Michael R. Hogan, mark your ballot "no" and you're voting not to retain this guy (in other words, you're voting to fire his ass). If you don't have an early ballot, you can also do it at the polls in November, assuming you remember that long.
If a majority of voters vote this guy out, he's fired, but it rarely happens unless a judge ticks off enough people.
So of course they will have more overturned decisions.
Light a fire for a troll, and he will be warm for the night, but set a troll on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Fuckin' worst interface ever.
HAND.
Judge: "You lied to the court in order to harm the innocent defendants. I hereby find you guilty of perjury."
RIAA lawyer: "It was an honest mistake."
Everyone in the court room says things like "Well, if it's like that" or "Mistakes happen".
Judge: "Well, in that case I can't really blame you. The defendants are sentenced to pay the RIAA one billion Dollars or go to jail for ten thousand years."
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
I knew we could. Gotta put in that new pool!
could have been a woman doing all of that ;-P
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Looks like the RIAA bought themselves a judge.
lol wut
Damn, I didn't realize he was that high up. But you're right; there's no way Congress would impeach. Still, in general, that's how you remove a judge, though it doesn't happen very often.
That said, I think it's perfectly legitimate to advocate for the removal of judges who are careless in following the law if they cross a certain threshold. I'm not saying what this guy did rises to that standard (I personally think he just doesn't know the RIAA very well yet, and he may never get the chance), but if there's a pattern of decisions like this, he should definitely be removed.
While it's true that the framers wanted to insulate judges from politics, if any considerable portion of the electorate sees a judge as corrupt (rightly or wrongly), it's not unreasonable to remove them. Even if they're not actually corrupt, they can undermine people's faith in the justice system, which is harmful in and of itself.
[citation needed]
For some trolls, that won't be long at all.
Well said. I really think /. should have an 'Adopt a Troll' mission. Most are underrated and deserve more than -nve moderation. Maybe /. should search the archives and firehose a few classic troll posts? An award maybe??
We do.
Its called TWITTER
He's been trolling here for years since Fark 86'ed his IP address.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
NOBODY calls it a "pee test". It's a "piss test" or, in polite company (we're none too polite 'round these parts) a "urine test".
Free Martian Whores!
The people of the RIAA are, well, you know, they're just a bunch of real sweet guys, you know, who just happen to want to sue everybody. Hell, I feel the same way some mornings.
So, like I said, these are a bunch of really sweet guys, but you wouldn't want to share an Internet with them, not if they're just gonna keep at it, not if they're not gonna learn to relax a little. I mean it's just going to be continual nervous time, isn't it, right? Subpoena, subpoena, subpoena, when are they next coming at us? Peaceful coexistence is just right out, right? Get me some water somebody, thank you.
Okay, hear me, hear me. It's like, these guys, you know, are entitled to their own view of the 'Net. And according to their view, which the 'Net forced on them, right, they did right. Sounds crazy, but I think you'll agree. They believe in... they believe in "peace, justice, morality, culture, sport, family life and the obliteration of all forms of file sharing". I've heard a lot worse.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?