Slashdot Mirror
99.8% of Gamers Don't Care About DRM, Says EA
arcticstoat writes "If you thought that EA might have been humbled by the massive Internet backlash against its use of SecuROM in its recent games, then you'd be wrong. Speaking at the Dow Jones/Nielsen Media and Money Conference, EA's CEO John Riccitiello claimed that the whole issue had been blown out of all proportion. 'We implemented a form of DRM and it's something that 99.8 per cent of users wouldn't notice,' claimed Riccitiello, 'but for the other 0.2 percent, it became an issue and a number of them launched a cabal online to protest against it.'"
If you query the number of gamers you have left, of course you're going to get a 99.8% figure. (Though honestly, that exact figure sounds like bullshit to me. Did you know that 85.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot?) The question is, how many customers have you already lost where DRM was a contributing factor? Of those customers, how many can identify DRM as the problem rather than stating "the game doesn't work"?
I almost guarantee that any study EA has done resulting in these figures was flawed. Based on his statements however, I don't think EA has done that research. Riccitiello pulled that number out of thin air. Even if EA did research that suggests that only 0.2% of users should have a problem, there's a huge gap between theory and practice.
I'm an example of a PC gamer lost by the industry. I used to read PC Gamer regularly, wait for the awesome new titles coming out, and get lost in the worlds of these games. Eventually I stopped and gave up on the industry. If you're interesting in why, here are the key points:
-- Lackluster games. The majority of games felt like regurgitated first person shooters. They were all the same with new skins. Hardly an interesting market.
-- Technological problems. There's nothing more irritating than purchasing a game or getting a game as a gift, then not being able to run it. At least two of those instances were clearly DRM problems. The games would not even start. No error, no reason, just fail. Tech support then explains some BS about having a CD Burner. Because, you know, those are so uncommon in computers. (This guy explains it WAY better than I can.) Not to mention the video card driver treadmill. Having problems with that game? Oh, well you need to update to Super Destructo Detonation Drivers version 34120123.1239213213 release 8231 patch -0123 revision B. It will make your system super-unstable, but your games will kick ass!
-- Time. As I got older, I simply had fewer hours in the day to game. I no longer have the time nor the patience to work around the previous two problem. So I just stopped buying PC games. Nowhere was there a concious decision of "screw them", it was simply, "This does not interest me anymore".
These days I have a console that lets me get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of the least possible time investment. Life is so much better than when PC games clogged my system's arteries.
In closing, I'd like to say this: History has shown that good games sell. Period, end of story. Piracy has always been and always will be a scapegoat for the real problem of poor quality merchandise. Implementing draconian anti-piracy measures will only drive away the few customers you have left.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Let's assume the statistics are actually correct. 0.2% don't want DRM, 99.8% don't care, and 0% are in favour. That should be enough of a message to realise it shouldn't be included. Especially when that 0.2% can damage the reputation of the game by giving shocking reviews all over the internet.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Because either 99.8% of gamers actually buy the games they play or 99.8% of gamers are confident in their russian software cracks websites.
I'm on FIOS not cabal!
Most people don't even know what DRM is, so why should they care about it?
Badass Resumes
If gamers knew that installing a game had a chance of damaging their CD Burner, or causing crashes in non-game activities, requiring a system reformat I bet they would care. As it is, they blame "computers" and do not care.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Now while I am one of the first who will tell you that personal experience doesn't equal empirical evidence, it isn't worthless in this case:
100% of the gamers I know (including me), which is quite a few, care about DRM. None of them like the "3 activations only" crap. Now it is always possible that I happen to belong to a really, really outside group, but not likely based on their BS statistics. If what they claim is true, you'd think at least one of the people I know, and more like everyone except me, would be perfectly ok with it. That they aren't says that EA's statistics are BS.
While I can perfectly well believe that most gamers are ok with DRM of some form, I'd bet almost none of them are ok with it when it interferes with their gameplay. Well, that's what these new DRMs are doing. The cause you to not be able to reinstall, they won't work with perfectly legit systems (Civ 4: BTS didn't like my DVD drive, and I don't even have any virtual drive software installed) and so on. Gamers care about that.
Sounds like they're getting nervous, keep the 1-star reviews coming!
Red Alert 3 (upcoming):
http://www.amazon.com/Command-Conquer-Red-Alert-Premier-Pc/dp/B001F6HJIY/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087512&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Command-Conquer-Red-Alert-3-Pc/dp/B0016BVY7U/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087512&sr=8-1
Far Cry 2 (upcoming):
http://www.amazon.com/Far-Cry-2-Pc/dp/B000X9FV5M/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087659&sr=8-2
Spore:
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/dp/B000FKBCX4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087603&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Galactic-Pc/dp/B001AYEGXM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1224087603&sr=8-2
Crysis Warhead:
http://www.amazon.com/Crysis-Warhead-Pc/dp/B001ATHKVC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087659&sr=8-1
I've been playing Spore quite a bit until this weekend, when it simply stopped showing any graphics whatsoever after updating my video drivers. Rolling back to the old drivers didn't help. So I tried reinstalling, and the game would simply crash.
After much futzing around and unhelpful EA support people basically reprinting their FAQ for me, page by page, I figured out the problem. I had patched Spore and uninstalled. But the DRM is never uininstalled, it lurks around forever. When I reinstalled the unpatched version from the CD, it was not what the DRM expected, and it crashed.
EA provides no way to download the patch without running the game, but I found the patch file on gamershell.com. Patching the game let it run without graphics again, and I switched to windowed mode (good like finding the key combo for that in the printed manual or help files) and checked out the graphics settings, uhhh, 170Hz refrsh rate, WTF? Setting it back to 75Hz allowed the game to run once again in full screen mode.
To reiterate: if you patch the game, uninstall, and reinstall the unpatched version, IT WILL NOT WORK, and the only component I can think of that would cause this is the DRM. Thanks EA, for making your paying customers prefer the pirated versions of your programs.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Too true. (98.2% of our CURRENT customers love us. LOL)
EA Before:
"Hey Gamers, buy our wicked game because it's totally fun to play!!!"
EA Later:
"Hey Gamers, buy our new game because it has newer technology, better lighting, and it produces 100% more warm fuzzies than its predecessor!"
EA Now:
"Hey Gamers, bend over."
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
If 99.8% of the customers don't have an issue with the DRM (presumably they are not restricted in what they are doing), why have it implemented in the first place?
DRM has the purpose of restricting what one can do with a digital product - be it a game, a song, whatever. If no-one ever runs into those restrictions, it's been a waste of effort. However if the restrictions are tight and many people run into them, they are presumably effective for what the manufacturer wanted, but will result in customers trying to circumvent it as they want to do things they are not allowed to out of the box. Such as making a back-up copy.
So either DRM is a priori ineffective (restrictions so loose no-one notices them, so there is no effect of the DRM) to prevent complaints, or it is effective in restricting people but then will guaranteed result in protests and circumvention, rendering it ineffective after all.
In other news, 99.8% of gamers are playing pirated versions of their games.
EA has literally saved me hundreds of dollars thanks to their absurd DRM approach. Instead of buying BioShock, Spore, Mass Effect, etc, I've been able to pocket all that cash. It basically boils down to this: No one tells me how many times I can install something on my computer! How many times a year do I reinstall my OS? No one takes control of my computer and shuts down programs I'm using! Get a clue EA.
Well I'm not the OP but I don't do PC gaming just console(Xbox 360 or Wii):
"For example, a lot of indie games are PC exclusives because the developer isn't a big enough company for a WiiWare license."
Unfortunately in that case I can't play it, (unless they do a Linux version). I'm sure there's some gold out there, but the signal to noise ratio has IME not been worth it.
Frankly I see computer games as being for fun and not as another job - hearing what people go through to get games running on a PC sounds far too much like the bits of my job that I hate to pay for the privilege of doing it.
"The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
What do you expect EA would tell a bunch of Wall Street types? "We screwed the pooch and a bunch of people went after us for it" or "everything is fine, we're a great place to send your money!"
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
Who needs 3 installs for Spore when you basically can play the game only twice without being bored?
The game was touted with tons of customizable features... few of them having anything to do with game play.
Wow! I can download tons of imaginative designs for buildings and things, and no matter which one I choose, they all do the same thing.
A DRM issue like this is only a problem for a game like StarCraft or Counter-Strike that people will be playing (and reinstalling) for ten years.
That's not to dilute the point that Bad DRM is... bad. It does illustrate the point that most people don't care about DRM, until they actually get bent over by it.
I don't. I'd love to play Little Big Planet, but I'm not going to invest in a PS3 to do it. So I just don't play.
In the past I did purchase a few indie games. Especially the kick-ass Puppy Games titles. That being said, you need something absolutely incredible to overcome my current ambivalence of PC gaming. I simply don't care enough to endure the pain and anguish of PC gaming. Even though AAA games like Halo, Mass Effect, and Spore COULD be played on my PC, I. SIMPLY. DON'T. CARE.
Crazy, isn't it?
What's even better is that if I wait long enough, the great indie games will reach the WiiWare service. Defend Your Castle, World of Goo, Cave Story, Lost Winds, and other incredible titles are at my finger tips. All it takes is a credit/debit card and a bit of Wii Remote clicking.
Any game that did not reach its target audience is not being pirated, either. There have been good games throughout history that received a cult following ex post facto, but no one paid them any heed when they were released. If there is a healthy pirate market for the game, there is a healthy consumer market for it. Pure and simple.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
What do you do when you want to play a game that isn't on the consoles? For example, a lot of indie games are PC exclusives because the developer isn't a big enough company for a WiiWare license.
WiiWare licenses apparently cost under ~3k. I can see that killing a solo-hobby-developer, but any entity big enough to call itself a small business can afford this.
That said, I have never played an indie game that needed beta drivers, had crazy drm, or was otherwise particularly difficult to install and get running, so if the OP wanted to play one, it would probably be a no-brainer to just buy it and play it.
My DVD drive hasn't worked in a week and half, despite repeated tweaks and reinstalls. While mucking around on my drive last night, I found a directory called SecurROM. No frigging idea where it came from. I don't know if this is just a coincidence or what, but if I delete that directory and my drive suddenly starts working again then I'm going to do two things. First, I'm going to torrent a copy of Spore. Second, I'm going to track down an EA executive and punch him in the cock just as hard as I can.
"0.2% of Gamers are too stupid to operate BitTorrent!"
These days I have a [Wii] console that lets me get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of the least possible time investment.
What do you do when you want to play a game that isn't on the consoles? For example, a lot of indie games are PC exclusives because the developer isn't a big enough company for a WiiWare license.
History has shown that good games sell.
Even good games from small companies?
What do I do when a game I want isn't on a console? I go outside and play.
I go climb a rock.
I go ride a motorcycle (not recently, wrecked one)
I go find something else to do.
I don't let the gaming industry play my life out for me. If a game looks killer, but it isn't available on one of my platforms, I just ignore it. Pure and simple.
Doesn't cost me anything, lost over 100 pounds since thinking this way, etc., etc., etc.
Good games from small companies still sell and are played.
Your logic would mean the Commodore (all variants) are dead, and NOTHING is released for them at all, right?
--Toll_Free
I must be one of those who care able DRM. I recently bought Mass Effect, before I was aware of its draconian DRM policy.
I started the installer, and when the End User License Agreement came up I decided to read through it.
In the end, I decided I couldn't agree to their end user license agreement. I tried to take the game back to the store. Unfortunately, the clerk behind the counter refused to allow me to return the game because it was open software. I told her that I couldn't read the license agreement until I had already purchased (and opened) the software. She was polite but unsympathetic to my plight. I asked her to get me her manager. She returned (without her manager) and said her manager told her she cannot accept open software.
I told her that should would then have to go get her manager because I need to know who it is who is refusing my legitimate refund. I explained that when this went to court, I would need his name and position in the store. She returned (again without her manager). She proceeded to hand me a business card with her manager's name on it, and a phone number for the company's customer support number.
Not being one to give in too easily, I sat down on the bench by the refund counter and called the customer support number. The man on the phone was also rather polite as I explained the situation. He looked up the receipt number, and through checking my credit card (I'm guessing) explained to me that I had quite a purchase history at their store and very few returns. He saw no reason why the store couldn't handle the refund and asked me to hand my phone to the sales representative.
The sales representative balked, and claimed, "I don't want to get into the middle of this." and wouldn't take my phone to talk to the service rep. I asked her to get her manager.
She left and returned (again, without her manager) and explained to me that her manager refused to talk to me because I threatened litigation. So, I explained this detail to the person from customer support with whom I was still conversing with on the phone. The customer support person chuckled, and said he could do the refund through the corporate channels, but unfortunately it would take a couple weeks for the processing to go through. I said that was unfortunate but acceptable. I asked him if I should hand the game to the lady at the customer service desk. Then the guy said, "No, that won't be necessary. Just take the game home with you, don't tell them what we have done for you, and consider it a gift from us."
Sure enough, 2 weeks later I got a gift card for the exact amount of the game + tax. I'd be a little disappointed about being refunded in store credit versus a return credit on my credit card but I do tend to buy a lot from this particular store so I decided to let it go.
I'd like to comment the only downside to this is that it is unlikely EA will every find out about my dissatisfaction with their EULA and DRM. Chances are the company ate the cost themselves, and they will never find out about it.
In the end, I was happy with the result from the company. I decided to install the game, since I have less of an issue with DRM and Freeware.
For the record, Mass Effect kicks some serious ass. I'm actually glad I got to keep the game.
Your post sounds perfectly reasonable and solid on the outset. Too bad it's complete nonsense.
On the matter of Thief, here is the Looking Glass post-mortem.
Interestingly, you'll find that piracy isn't even mention. Piracy did not kill Looking Glass studios. Difficult financials did, same as Origin, Westwood, and a multitude of other classic studios.
"No doubt" is not a real-world metric. In fact, 2D Boy EXPLICITLY shipped with no DRM on the honor system. So far, it has not hurt them. And with the recent release on the Nintendo Wii, 2D Boy is flying high with the first 10/10 review from WiiWare World.
As much as I'd like to believe your post is simply ignorant, I cannot ignore your posting history. All posts on copyright topics, all in favor of stronger copyrights. You are most certainly a shill. The question is, for whom do you shill?
Mod parent -1 Troll.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Most people try to contact the manufacturer by going to the place they set aside for discussions. EA however locks any threads on the subject, and bans the participants if they continue. So the manufacturer in this case is sitting back going "LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! EVERYBODY LOVES ME!"
Not really very constructive.
It was sort of the other way around for me.
I got tired of console games that were buggy/poorly tested etc. and could NOT be patched. I was stuck with the first release version.
PC games at least gave me the aftermarket to fix problems with a game. When I could get inside them, or utilize cracks or whatnot, I began to see more cost value in a PC game. Yeah, I realize that in a perfect world, the games should be perfect on release, but they are not. For that simple reason, I choose to buy a product that at least gives me some latitude in making the fucking thing work to MY liking.
that's like saying it's weird that adults read Harry Potter books even though they're young adult books.
End the racism against children
"The reason you hear about the people that have problems is because they come on the internet to explain their problem and get help. You don't hear much from the people for which it "just worked"."
No, it's not. It's because people have problems, and in console land they just don't.
I'm another person that moved off the PC to consoles, as much due to social reasons as anything (playing with friends on the TV is just nicer), but I recently purchased spore. It wanted to install a patch after a while because a lot of people had problems getting it to run at all. The patch broke my install.
Sod that, I'm going back to my easer, cheaper consoles.
So?
Some of my favorite games are 2D. Defcon and Uplink come to mind. And Darwinia isn't that taxing.
Dear Introversion,
Can I please work for you?
Really, if you want a good indie game, introversion is *the* place to go.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
I'm actually in your position. The standard practice for obtaining a WiiWare license appears to be:
1. Create a title that runs on the computer. Even if it's just a demo, it should convince Nintendo that you can create games for their system.
2. OBTAIN COMMERCIAL OFFICE SPACE! I can't stress this one enough. Even if you get 200 square feet of office space that costs $200/mo., this step is critical to getting Nintendo to trust you. (Nintendo is concerned about secure access to the development kit.)
3. Apply for a WiiWare license. 2D games don't matter. DYC, World of Goo, Mega Man 9, Gradius Rebirth, Cave Story, and many other games have already paved that road for you.
At least, that's the strategy my little cadre expects to pursue. If we can ever finish pulling a team together, that is. Having a part time game designer and part time programmer does us no good if we can't get one of our artist friends to sign up. At least we have some seriously recognized brands lined up.
Anyway, feel free to email me if you need any more info. I'm far from a fountain of information on the process, but I may be able to point you in the right direction.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
That's a load of rubbish. If gamers didn't care then game crack sites wouldn't be so popular. Fewer people would be pirating games and let's face it torrent users aren't some niche market.
I think someone's study was pulled out of their backside.
> I have no problem with copy protection on the xbox. It works. I put in the game, and the game plays, always.
Unless your 3-year old gets his hands on the games. Seriously, do you expect me to lock everything in a safe? He'd know the combination after watching me open it twice anyway...
Last I checked, spouting outright lies is a key feature of trolling. 2 seconds of research would have found out that Poor sales of Thief did not kill Looking Glass and that 2D Boy has had no serious piracy. In fact, the Looking Glass post-mortem explicitly says:
If his post acts like a troll, sounds like a troll, and smells like a troll, it's a troll.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Wine is really getting quite good these days. You still certainly can't expect a game to work in it, but it's at the stage now where it's usually worth a try, particularly for indie titles that are probably going to be concentrating on fun gameplay rather than pushing technical boundaries.
Confusing 'users' with 'customers'.
It's like you sell elk urine as a perfume, and claim 99% of perfume users love the elk urine smell.
Nope.
99% of perfume users hate elk urine smell and don't buy it.
The 0.99% who buy it and love it are weird perverts who feel turned on by the smell.
The remaining 0.01% are clueless morons who didn't know what they are buying.
Yep, from people who -bought- the game, possibly well over 90% don't know and don't care. OTOH the rampaging piracy is in a major part influenced by DRM. If they surveyed -users- and not just -customers- they might come up with a totally different number.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
s/developers/developers\ndevelopers\ndevelopers\ndevelopers
DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!