Inside View of Epic, Preparing Gears of War 2

Subm writes "Lamborghinis, motion-capture rooms, secret new weapons — these are a few things included in the profile of Epic Games and its Design Director, Cliff Bleszinski. 'A Microsoft employee who works closely with Epic described the company as having a "band dynamic." Staff turnover is low, and many of Epic's most senior employees have been friends for more than a decade. This does not seem a very long time until one sits in on an Epic meeting and realizes that anyone over the age of thirty-five achieves the temporal stature of Methuselah. Epic's recent growth is regarded with wary gratitude by many of its employees, though some miss the old days, when, as Sweeney put it, "we were just a bunch of kids who had some cool ideas and were doing neat things."'"

Comments

Boom or bust?:Growing up in the game industry.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Epic's recent growth is regarded with wary gratitude by many of its employees, though some miss the old days, when, as Sweeney put it, "we were just a bunch of kids who had some cool ideas and were doing neat things."

Ahh! I miss the dot-com days too.

Frankie Says Relax

[dow]

Does it make anyone else smile when they spot the guy wearing the Frankie Says Relax shirt in the group photo in the booklet that came with UT3?

Re:Frankie Says Relax

[Anonymous Coward]

NOW I SEE IT! It's so obvious to me now and i do not know how on earth i hadn't seen this before.

The unreal engine is meant to make one kill the prime minister of malaysia!

CliffyB!

[Anonymous Coward]

What? No mention of the name that rhymes with Sunny D?

Re:CliffyB!

[Chosen Reject]

From the Summary, sentence numero uno:

"Lamborghinis, motion-capture rooms, secret new weapons â" these are a few things included in the profile of Epic Games and its Design Director, Cliff Bleszinski.(emphasis added)

CliffyB is a jackass

[ushimitsudoki]

Here's what you need to know about CliffyB's mindset:

Do you see the Xbox 360 as the main platform as opposed to the PC? During the whole Unreal time it was very much PC focused.

The PC right now is a fair amount different to what it was back in the day, with all the badly integrated video chips. Here's the problem right now; the person who is savvy enough to want to have a good PC to upgrade their video card, is a person who is savvy enough to know bit torrent to know all the elements so they can pirate software. Therefore, high-end videogames are suffering very much on the PC.

So piracy was a main point for you...

Right now, it makes sense for us to focus on Xbox 360 for a number of reasons. Not least PCs with multiple configurations and piracy.

But when the dust has settled, is there any possibility of Gears 2 on PC?

No.

Definitely not?

No.

From: http://www.totalvideogames.com/Gears-of-War-2/feature-13270.html

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[oldmankdude]

Wow... guess he doesn't realize that console games can be pirated too. Especially since GoW2 was leaked to the tubes more than two weeks early.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Anpheus]

He's unfortunately right. He wouldn't say that unless there was a strong business case for a PC release not being very profitable to them. The same happens with games not being released simultaneously on Mac and PC. If the Mac release doesn't meet a certain threshold it's a loss and they want to avoid it.

Now, of course someone will reply, "Bu, bu, bu, Blizzard and Valve make scads off PC games." But I -can- play their games on my PC, and my PC is better than most commodity PCs, but not good enough to play Gears, or Crysis. The best I can do is Oblivion I think at 30FPS, maybe.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[seanalltogether]

And what do you find wrong with this decision? What would you say to change his mind?

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[vux984]

Wow... guess he doesn't realize that console games can be pirated too. Especially since GoW2 was leaked to the tubes more than two weeks early.

Not at all, he clearly realizes that.

He's saying, essentially, there are pirates on both platforms, but on the PC platform, anyone with a system able to run our game is savvy enough to be a pirate, while anyone who owns an xbox can run our game, and most of them aren't savvy enough to be a pirate.

Note also that he doesn't say that everyone on the PC able to run the game IS a pirate, although clearly thinks that a much higher percent of his potential market on the PC are pirates.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Kneo24]

I'd tell him that his opinion is not a very educated one. That the decisions his companies make don't foster a lot of sales in the PC market anyway.

Consider that each iteration of any game they have released has usually needed a bleeding edge PC, or very close to it. Scalability for systems that are say... 3 of 4 years old is poor. Their games are just a tech demo of the new engine they've created. Tech demos usually stop being fun after you realize that's all they are. You see how the games generally lack depth.

Besides, piracy exists on the consoles too. If they can easily ignore that, they should be able to easily ignore piracy on the PC.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Anonymous Coward]

The same tech savvy people are pirating 360 games.

*pats his stack of burnt games*

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[caeos]

Well, I would have to wonder where CliffyB would be today if it wasn't for all the dedicated *PC* Epic fans like myself playing his maps for hundreds (okay more likely thousands) of hours in the original Unreal Tournament. If it wasn't for all of the PC gamers playing UT, including the vast number of players who pirated the game thus making it as popular as it was (including myself, I was young and poor when it was released, I purchased a copy later.. and UT2k3 and UT2k4), would CliffyB be working for Epic now?

Would Epic themselves be as well off as they are now if not for the popularity of UT (pirate copied players and all)?

Original CliffyB maps from when he was just a mapper and had no direct affiliation with Epic, I haven't played UT in years but I know these maps like the back of my hand:
DM-Barricade, DM-Codex, DM-Curse][, DM-Mojo][, DM-Shrapnel][, DM-Tempest and DM-Turbine.

As a core Epic fan for a very long time, I guess I find it a little offensive that I am no longer even considered a potential customer because I *might* pirate their games, not that anything Epic have released to PC in recent times has interested me.
I can understand console games are more profitable and that's where their focus is now, but perhaps as an Epic employee CliffyB should be more careful with his words rather then alienating all the gamers who likely played a role in helping CliffyB/Epic get where they are today.

Also I don't understand the logic behind simply not releasing a game to a platform due to pirates, Epic spent many years making PC games, is it really so expensive for them to create and sell PC ports that they lose money due to the number of pirates? How many sales would it take to cover costs and turn a profit? Instead they chose to snub their original fan base?

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[soupforare]

...most of them aren't savvy enough to be a pirate.

You'd be surprised. I've got couga^Wmiddle-aged lady friends who know about and use R4s, and there's folks who sell mod services in projects and on craigslist. It's not like the 360 is particularly difficult to mod.

Console piracy has to have surpassed PC piracy just from the shear install-base numbers.
FO3 was just leaked... guess which version~

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[skaet]

Epic have always done a better job than most at optimising their "tech demos" for low-spec systems while maintaining cutting edge graphics for high-spec. The latest-and-greatest software is the driving force behind the upgrade cycle, and from my personal experience general consumers tend to upgrade every 4-6 years. Making a 3-4 year lifespan on the engine is then a good idea since it keeps the game playable for many years to come.

Name me one tech demo in history that hasn't lacked depth. I must have missed the memo that said tech demos needed to have depth to be classified as a mindlessly entertaining game, yet Gears had more depth than anything Epic had released to date and they did a damn good job of it.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[panda cakes]

To answer your question - yes. Every other PC studio's games were pirated just as well, Epic did not raise because of piracy or their games. It's a midleware company and their main product and source of revenue is Unreal Engine they have sold to everyone (and if memory serves they've got a sweet deal with Intel financing the original Unreal to promote their "revoluationary" MMX technology). There are many console companies bigger and richer than Epic who get by without releasing virtually anything on PC. And there are even more PC companies going out of business even though their games were pirated.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[lucas teh geek]

nobody's disputing that. the difference is that plenty of not-tech-savvy folk own xbox's, but the number of not-tech-savvy users with computers good enough to run the latest and greatest games on pc is far fewer.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Ostracus]

I've just came back from a multiplayer UT3 and you all know what I observed? Not people worrying about their OS. Nor wither someone at Epic's their friend or not. Nope. They were having FUN. And that's what matters.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[lucas teh geek]

I'd tell him that his opinion is not a very educated one.

yes; because you with no games to your name are obviously more educated in platform sales statistics than someone who's made millions selling games on the said platforms. I see no reason not to take what he says at face value. I suspect you've just spent big dollars on upgrading your pc in the last 6 months, and are feeling a little bitter that consoles are getting 2x as many good games this Christmas. sucks to be you

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Kneo24]

Name me one tech demo in history that hasn't lacked depth. I must have missed the memo that said tech demos needed to have depth to be classified as a mindlessly entertaining game, yet Gears had more depth than anything Epic had released to date and they did a damn good job of it.

Well, therein lies the problem. While Gears wasn't actually meant to be a tech demo, I'd say their Unreal games are. You can't expect huge sales on tech demos. And of course, everyone loves to blame piracy when sales don't meet expectations. It's the convenient scapegoat for many a developer and publisher.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[martinX]

I reckon I could 0wn you in DM-Turbine.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Kneo24]

Despite your unfounded trolling, I'll bite.

Let's see...

Sales on PC sucks. Let's blame piracy!

Instead of blaming piracy, they could blame a few other things (and I'll do this for Gears instead of their tech demos of games).

• Wasn't advertised enough. (i.e. almost no advertising)
• Was buggy.
• Average game.

I'm not going to argue that piracy can't hurt sales. But when you already have one foot in the grave, it's obvious to anyone with half a brain to see that it's clearly not the only problem. Take a loot at Spore. Despite it being a pretty boring game overall, it still managed to sell a lot due to the hype machine, despite that it's being heavily pirated.

Now, I'm not saying that the guys at Epic need to make a game that appeals to the lowest common denominator like Spore did. Besides the massive marketing campaign the game went through, it did manage to appeal to it's target audience. I can't say the same for any game Epic has made. I have played them all and said, "so what?", and I continue to do so. They can be a lot of mindless fun once in a while, but they're generally over glorified tech demos.

I guess I can call your opinion an uneducated one too, at this point, as it's clear, like Cliff, you fail to recognize the mitigating factors and would rather just accept the convenient scapegoat.

One final note: I built my PC a year ago and it's doing just fine. I don't care how many games I have available to me on the PC. It's about quality, not quantity (and the ability to play mods).

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Rennt]

He wouldn't say that unless there was a strong business case for a PC release not being very profitable to them.

How much would it really cost to port from the 360 to PC - it's nearly the same platform.

When you compare no PC games sales to any sales at all - for a game you have already developed - I would think you can make a pretty strong business case to release, piracy or no.

It feels more like spite than sound business practice to me.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Anonymous Coward]

While Gears wasn't actually meant to be a tech demo, I'd say their Unreal games are.

I cannot fathom somebody saying that about the original Unreal and Unreal Tournament with a straight face. Unreal wasn't just a good solid adventure game, the (then) jaw-dropping landscapes and singularly beautiful soundtrack made it a permanent classic. And UT was the best deathmatch game when it arrived: the maps really had atmosphere and the bots simply rocked. (I remember discussions of people having a crush for Rylisa...)

Now, the later UTs are much more just variations of that old theme, and the only real new feature, the Onslaught mode, was a clear rip-off from Tribes... and Unreal 2 was a huge disappointment... but to lump all Unreal games together as just tech demos is a misjustice. Ugh.

(That said, I think CliffyB is being an asshat. Even if 50&...90% of GoW2 players on PC didn't pay for the game, the 10%...50% would still profit they are not at all getting now. I can't see the logic. With DX9 and DX10 the platform is more uniform than ever before, and the large scale of CPU and GPU performance has always been there -- where's the problem with it now? Frigging original Doom offered a plethora of configuration options...)

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Anonymous Coward]

CliffyB is just blowing smoke out his ass.

I'm a member of a once rather -ahem- "notorious" gang of players that made some pretty fun/outrageous maps once upon a time. We were BIG fans of UT. The original UT was fantastic...they hit the sweet spot dead on compared to Quake 3, which missed it by a country mile. It was a real game, not just an engine wrapped in the former glory of a once great game.

The best thing about UT was how insanely moddable it was WITHOUT requiring C programming knowledge and arcane, largely undocumented console commands (paying attention ID software? Didn't think so.) You could code up your OWN mutators easily in UnrealScript and throw them up for the world. UnrealEd was easier to use than the Quake editors. Life was good, play was plentiful and ideas seemed endless. The original Unreal4Ever mod is probably the best example of what you could do.

Until Unreal Tournament 2003. That's when they did their 180 degree turn. First the crappy console interface was a serious downgrade from UT's great windowed interface. The configurability went down. Sure, most of the goodies and mutators were there (or at least, were POSSIBLE via Unreal Script) BUT...they introduced the "Standard Server" setting. What did this do? It removed you from the server list if you dared to run a mutator or mod that Epic hadn't explicitly blessed. This turned the UT world from a spectrum of gameplay into a monochrome environment of the same damn thing, over and over. Sure you could uncheck the "standard server" box and get all the goodies, but NO ONE DID...most people didn't know it existed or what the effect would be. I believe the reasoning was that they didn't want "new players" (read console idiots) to get confused about what mutators would do to gameplay.

So I'm not surprised that Epic is ga-ga for the consoles. They made the most insanely configurable game ever and then decided they didn't like people doing just that with it--so now they can lock it down (and hide miscreants that dare throwing a mutator on). The consoles are a godsend since they can control the horizontal and the vertical.

As for Cliffy's bullshit about "if you can install a video card, well then you're smart enough to pirate our stuff...." Way to call your former user base "pirates" there pal. Good going.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[kafros]

It is not just the pirates. EPIC has to battle all these invisible ninjas too

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Cornelius the Great]

He's unfortunately right. He wouldn't say that unless there was a strong business case for a PC release not being very profitable to them.

His argument is flawed because he assumes that 360 and PC players are mutually exclusive. They're not.

Unfortunately, GoW was engineered to have the worst possible PC sales. The game came out on the 360, then a year later on the PC. By then, many PC gamers (like myself) would have already had the game on the 360, and saw no reason to buy the game over again. If Epic had released the PC and 360 versions simultaneously, he might see PC gaming more favorably.

Other developers have used engineered PC releases to prove their "theories" that PC gaming is unprofitable. Halo2 was only released for Vista. Crytek had ridiculously high system requirements for a mediocre FPS (Crysis) and then complained about piracy (despite being very profitable for having a PC-only title).

Piracy seems like a stupid cop-out excuse. Piracy is rampant on the 360 (and now beginning to run up on the Wii).

They just prefer the fact that they can shovel recycled shit (GoW2, Halo3, etc) onto console gamers and walk away with higher profits.

Re:CliffyB is a jackass

[Anonymous Coward]

Cliff was already part of Epic when he became a mapper.

Why can't it be that a company is changing with the times? Isn't it possible that as consoles get more powerful and approach parity with PCs that they become the more viable option for gaming goodness?

Hell as a kid I pretty much skipped the NES et al in favor of my trusty PC. But as I've gotten older, the time available to me to tweak that machine, keep it in top form, update the drivers, buy the new video card, play with x,y,z to get the games to work just becomes a hassle.

Sure console games are arguably getting more buggy as whats expected of them increases, but I'll take a buggy game on my 56" TV, sitting on the couch with no upgrades necessary (until I need to buy the *next* next-gen machine) to the time sinc that PC gaming has always been and will continue to be.

I still try to play TF2, Crysis, etc, but with $500 video cards, isn't a $400 x360 at the very least a good alternative that fulfills the FUN requirement?

Despicable

[KBAegis]

Since when did Slashdot become advertisement for the software and video gaming industries?

Re:Despicable

[Ethanol-fueled]

I didn't think they did that until I read the overtly sycophantic /. Spore review.

CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[Anonymous Coward]

He has not earned the right to be called Cliff or Clifford. He has to own up to hundreds of stupid comments yet.

Like, you know, "all PC gamers are thiefs". Which version of GoW2 was leaked, genius?. 360, you say?. In your face, bitch.

It's a pity the New Yorker is losing valuable time with this idiot.

PS.- GoW is an average game, although I admire the big amount of bugs you were able to put into the PC version. Congrats.

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[Ross D Anderson]

Your point is moot, a pirated copy will work on any powerful enough PC without extra expense or serious drawbacks while modding the xbox to play pirate games costs a fair bit, voids the warranty and removes accessibility to Xbox live. Not to mention the added hassle of getting the correct version to burn for each region. I think I can see which one I'd rather pirate on.
Also what do you mean

Which version of GoW2 was leaked, genius?

There are no other versions so again, moot point.

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[philspear]

He has not earned the right to be called Cliff or Clifford. He has to own up to hundreds of stupid comments yet.

Looks like one thief is a little upset about being called a thief!

(I joke, calm down)

Serious point: who hasn't said stupid things? Find me one person who has never put their foot in their mouth and I'll show you someone who doesn't have a mouth (or maybe a foot, but that strains the metaphor.) I've said dumb stuff today. Fortunately for me, there were no reporters present and no one really cared enough to blog about it. Saying all PC gamers are thieves sounds like something that's been taken far out of context. The guy makes games for PC, right? As I understand that, the PC games market is on the endangered species list. Maybe some of that is because PC gamers tend to throw temper tantrums every time something is not quite up to their liking? Like if one developer one time says something that could be taken out of context as disparaging to PC gamers, at least some of them make voodoo dolls of that developer?

It takes a special brand of bravery to subject yourself to abuse at the keyboards of gamers by making any game, but you're opening yourself up to a whole new world of flaming by making a PC game that isn't absolutely perfect. I'm not sure why anyone is suprised when games don't come out for the PC with crap like this.

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[Firehed]

Your point is moot, a pirated copy will work on any powerful enough PC without extra expense or serious drawbacks while modding the xbox to play pirate games costs a fair bit, voids the warranty and removes accessibility to Xbox live. Not to mention the added hassle of getting the correct version to burn for each region. I think I can see which one I'd rather pirate on.

And you think that a PC with the horsepower to run Gears at Xbox 360 quality comes cheap? You can now pick up the baseline 360 for $200. You'd probably spend twice that on just your graphics card to run Gears PC at 720p.

Yes, you can download and play the games more easily on a PC than on a 360, but I've seen the high-end graphics card from a generation after mine called ancient recently, and my card (a 7900GT) is only a couple years old. For the cost of updating my graphics card to something that would run FC2, Crysis, and other recent games at good quality (I can just barely run Crysis at mostly-playable framerates at 1680x1050 at lowest everything else which is pretty fugly, FC2 is even worse at 1100x700 or something in that vague range with all settings low-medium, and 360 ports are almost always far slower than they should be), I could get a spare 360 and whatever hardware I'd need to play pirated games, and a hefty stack of dual layer discs.

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[CorporateSuit]

He has not earned the right to be called Cliff or Clifford. He has to own up to hundreds of stupid comments yet.

Considering the enormous number of women he's slept with, he has earned the right to be called "Cliff" or "Clifford"

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[mobby_6kl]

>You can now pick up the baseline 360 for $200. You'd probably spend twice that on just your graphics card to run Gears PC at 720p.

Welcome to two years ago. There's a $130 card that runs Crysis at 1680x1050 at 40 fps. And really, if you'd be content with playing the games on consoles, why don't you save those $200 too and just continue playing on low detail? This way you'd get the same experience you get on the consoles, without spending anything extra!

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[iVasto]

Modding an xbox 360 costs 0 dollars. All you are doing is flashing the firmware of the dvd drive. So actually, your point is moot.
Yes, it voids the warranty (unless you have skills with a hair dryer), but are you honestly too stupid to figure out what region a game plays on?
Example (The most recent xbox 360 release): Dance.Dance.Revolution.Universe.3.USA.XBOX360-APATHY
That means region USA.

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[Anonymous Coward]

while modding the xbox to play pirate games costs a fair bit, voids the warranty and removes accessibility to Xbox live. Not to mention the added hassle of getting the correct version to burn for each region.

just FYI, in order of your points: wrong, right, wrong, somewhat.

1. modding a 360 requires nothing more than the correct sata chipset to flash it with. your current motherboard might have it (mine did) so in that case modifying a 360 to play burnt games costs nothing.
2. you're right. it does void the warranty, some have managed to returned 360s with broken seals, but in general your warranty is toast once you've opened it up.
3. plenty of people are playing on xbox live right now with burnt disks. there have in the past been waves of people getting banned, but it has been a long time since that's happened. there is some belief that using current firmwares on xbox live is undetectable. personally, I think when the new xbox dash comes out in november, that would be the perfect opportunity for ms to insert some code to start taking a hash of the dvd rom firmware and comparing it to a list of legit ones... but really, no one knows if/when it's going to start happening again. it's really an "at your own risk, but you're probably safe" type thing.
4. probably about 50% of games are not region locked, so sometimes yes and sometimes no. this burns legitimate customers as much as it does pirates. case in point: rockband in australia. rockband (the original) comes out in australia next month. rockband 2 came out in the US this month. both games are region locked so importing from the US is not an option (yes i know the UK got it in september and it could be imported from them. that doesnt make it any easier to swallow that I still cant buy the instrument pack locally, while in the US you can buy the newer rockband 2 instruments. region raping is alive and well)

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[antic]

"Like, you know, "all PC gamers are thiefs". Which version of GoW2 was leaked, genius?. 360, you say?. In your face, bitch."

First leaked is a little irrelevant, isn't it? Surely they'd be more concerned about overall numbers?

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy makes games for PC, right? As I understand that, the PC games market is on the endangered species list.

Bu, bu, bu, Blizzard and Valve make scads off PC games!

Re:CliffyB, man, it's CliffyB

[philspear]

A whole two companies!?! Wow, nevermind, maybe it's CONSOLES that need to worry about a dearth of games!

sounds reasonable to me

[spandex_panda]

To be quite honest, I think about spending $80 - $100 on far cry 2 for Pc (through steam, very easy) and hesitate. Should be a great game but its a lot of money.

Then I head over to TPB and see a discussion alongside an ISO for said game, its playable but multiplayer doesn't work. This option is also very easy, inexpensive and only limited by the no multiplayer factor.

So I am sorry to say I am tempted by the latter option, which means sadly that I give the developers no money. Perhaps they should make singleplayer free and charge a small monthly fee for multiplayer?

In conclusion, what he says is very sensible, they make money by selling games, not by having them used for free.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

"I think about spending $80 - $100 on far cry 2 for Pc (through steam, very easy) and hesitate."

According to my Steam store window, Far Cry 2 is $49.99. Maybe you should try lying about things that aren't so easily proven to be false?

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[Darkness404]

The main problem with PC gaming is the fact that it doesn't always work. Wheras if I buy a game for the Wii/PS3/360 I can be 100% guaranteed that it will work on my system. The most I might have to do is spend $20 for an extra controller. On the other hand, if I buy a PC game I have to worry about if I have enough RAM, graphics card capability, the right operating system, a fast enough 'Net connection, etc. For the average person, that just makes making a PC game a total hassle, not only that but the game's performance is not equal for everyone, unlike console gaming, plus, upgrades for console games are cheap, upgrades for PCs are quite expensive (not only the gear itself, but hiring someone to put it in, not everyone is computer literate). And don't get me started on DRM... PC gaming has many, many flaws, but being easily pirated isn't one of them.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[MrMista_B]

It wasn't $49.99 at release. Who's the liar now? People like you who are quick to accuse, insult, and point fingers when they feel their sacred cows are being threatened are the reason 'fanboy' has become an epithet to most.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[Pinckney]

According to my Steam store window, Far Cry 2 is $49.99. Maybe you should try lying about things that aren't so easily proven to be false?

The grandparent is probably someplace outside the US. If memory serves, Australia, in particular, suffers through particularly high prices for video games.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[boarsai]

According to my Steam store window, Far Cry 2 is $49.99. Maybe you should try lying about things that aren't so easily proven to be false?

At the time of this post: 49.99 USD = 82.6223 AUD

Perhaps he's not american?

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[Kneo24]

Wheras if I buy a game for the Wii/PS3/360 I can be 100% guaranteed that it will work on my system.

Not entirely true. Fable II, a very current release is having freezing issues. Bully: Scholarship Edition also had some technical issues which needed to be patched. This is just on the 360. The PS3, GTA IV had some technical issues too. I call this "not working". Crappy firmware updates for the PS3? Yup, those are there too!

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[OrangeTide]

There are quite a few famous Xbox and 360 games that have very poor code quality. And are plagued with all the problems we've come to accept on the PC platform.

Remember the Morrowind port to Xbox? Shesh!

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[sortius_nod]

Indeed we do.

If it's not jacked up on Steam, it's completely barred.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[elrous0]

U.S. game companies get to charge Australians extra as part of a long-standing restitution agreement set up to repay U.S. hotels for all the damage Bon Scott did in the 70's.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[KDR_11k]

If they had to make the singleplayer free they wouldn't put much effort into it. Doesn't work for games where the focus is singleplayer.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[Darkness404]

Ok, fine, I should say "any decent developer can test and debug a game easily that is for a console" on the other hand, its impossible to test every single hardware configuration for a PC.

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[spandex_panda]

For posterity, I am in Australia where 49.95 USD is around $77 Australian dollars today, more yesterday and a lot less two months ago ... Sorry I did guess the conversion rate, it shouldn't make me a liar though I guess I did exaggerate a bit!

Re:sounds reasonable to me

[Cornelius the Great]

Conversely, this can be turned into an argument for PC gaming.

When a PC game crashes on my system, 9 times out of 10 there's some driver inconsistency or hardware I can disable to get it working. Forums are great for this reason- I fixed my Fallout3 freezing issues yesterday, hours after the game came out.

At least on the PS3/360/Wii, you're at the developer's/Sony's/MS's/Nintendo's mercy until they can provide a fix. I remember being really pissed that I couldn't play GTA IV for the first week or so because it always locked up at the opening credits.

Also, I'm on my third 360 (RROD) and second PS3 (firmware update bricked my system), and I had to wait nearly a month before receiving a replacement system. When my PSU on my PC went kaput a couple weeks ago, I only had to wait a couple days before I received a new one.

Re:!overrated?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

I played Gears of War 1 on the PC. And while it was kinda pretty, I closed and uninstalled it when I was unable to jump over an obstacle that didn't even reach my knees.

Epic FAIL

[syousef]

Oh come on, it's obligatory! You just wish you thought to post it first!

Fuck Epic

[apoc.famine]

Yes, karma bedamned, Fuck Epic.

After a fucking YEAR we're still waiting for a useful version of UT3 to show up. The same damn game that they once talked about having linux and mac ports for, linux and mac editor for....doesn't have a decent linux SERVER, let alone non-windows Client! And the editor? It doesn't even friggin work in Windows half the time. And of course, it's not ported yet. To ice this cake of stupid? They are bitching about piracy hurting their games. Piracy? How about releasing Shit? Any chance that has hurt sales?

At the moment, the entire god damn game still has limited functionality compared to UT2k4. Despite my friends and I having a one of the better UT3 servers, those of us who still play have pretty much abandoned the game. This, after 9 years of playing the UT franchise.

Fuck Epic. We'll go play something else.

Re:Fuck Epic

[WDot]

I was pretty miffed at Epic for making comments insulting PC gamers, but I picked up UT3 for the PC anyway because I figured I'd at least I'd try to show that not all PC gamers were 'thieves' as they suggest. It was underwhelming.

The reason PC gamers aren't going wild for Epic's games recently is because Epic stopped caring for PC gamers. The only thing UT3 has going for it is that it's prettier than UT2k4. There's less content, less features, and it's buggier. There's a fantastic mod community for it, but I'd expected much more official extras (like the prequels). There's no word on what's going to happen for patch 1.4 or indeed, if there will be a patch 1.4 (there damn well better be, voice chat still gives me issues over private Hamachi games!). Epic hasn't rereleased a stable demo yet, preferring to just keep offering their garbage "beta demo."

I hate to sound crusty, but Epic had a big hit in the form of Gears of War and all of a sudden decided that PC gamers weren't worth paying attention to. So they shit on us and then complain that we don't buy their games? I'm not going to buy any more Epic products until Epic issues an apology and makes a PC game worth paying for. Anybody who enjoyed UT/UT2003/4 on PC should do the same. I have a 360, but I'm not buying Gears 1 or 2.

Re:Fuck Epic

[apoc.famine]

I hate to sound crusty...

Well, you were a whole lot more elegant than I was, to be sure. Generally I'm a bit more refined in my thoughts. But Epic has pissed me off more than most other gaming companies have. It's one thing to put out a crappy product. It's an entirely different thing to piss in the face of long-time loyal customers.

My hat is off to you for your elegance on the subject. My ire prevents such elegance on my part.

Re:Fuck Epic

[Akzo]

It's not as if Epic has ditched PC to concentrate on consoles; the console version has all the same problems plus a lack of any customization that might be available on the PC, there's been no updates to attempt to fix the problems for the console versions at all. I believe Epic has pretty much given up on UT3 to concentrate on Gears of War. Bastards.

Re:Fuck Epic

[Anonymous Coward]

all pc gamers need to get over it no one plays pc its all about consoles now ... go buy a 360 already and stop bitchin and join the gears universe

Re:Fuck Epic

[Sparton]

And the editor? It doesn't even friggin work in Windows half the time.

That's nothing new, as the editor from UT2004 wasn't any different. And despite that, the editor is still better than many that is used by professional game development studios, crashes and all. Why do you think so many companies license it?

Re:!overrated?

[Killer Orca]

You decided not to play a game because you couldn't jump in it?! Good thing Half-life had jumping or you would've missed out big.

UT3 Linux client

[L0stm4n]

Epic can kiss my ass after that fiasco. The ut2004 had a great linux client. Was supposed to be one for UT3 as well as the editor. Hell it's even done but Ryan Gordan can't release it.

Re:UT3 Linux client

[Atriqus]

That's what sucks about this situation. I want to support Ryan Gordon's work by buying a copy on release. But considering the piss-poor way Epic handled the non-launch of UT3 for linux, I just can't in good conscience in this case, even when/if it comes out.

Re:UT3 Linux client

[LDoggg_]

Well, I went and bought it on release based on their previous track record and their promise of a Linux port.

I have a useless 60 dollar box with a year's worth of dust on it. Their lie cost me a tank of gas.

You live you learn, I guess. Though it would be nice to at least hear them officially say they won't release Ryan's port because they're in bed with Microsoft.

Re:Last post

[NuclearError]

Do you mean you're never posting again? Don't apologize.

Re:!overrated?

[Dahamma]

Geek translation:

I played outside once. And while it was kinda pretty, I closed the door and stayed inside when I was unable to jump over an obstacle that didn't even reach my knees.

Re:!overrated?

[Skuldo]

I can't in good conscience have a go at you for this, as this is why I stopped playing the prologue in the PC version, and didn't pick it up again until I got a 360. You shouldn't be able to jump over stuff in that huge suit of armour, you have to vault over it by pressing the action button twice and walking towards the rock.

my 2c

[null8]

I have played the first gears - the graphics was great, the testosterone-laden pieces of hunk were entertaining to watch, but after some time it just becomes boring. For me, there was no point in playing it, there was no drama, no engaging story, no twists to explore, nothing to justificate endless hours of repetitive wasting the same enemies. I mean, I wonder what all the hype is about, when someone will ask me of what can change the nature of a man again? What's the point in those unreal 10 & gears 20 & halo 30 where the only thing changed is the graphics and why do they blame it on piracy when any sane person can tell you if you make a bad game it won't sell.

Re:my 2c

[Saffaya]

One word : Co-op

Gears of War is terrific to play with a buddy.

Covering your partner when he gets surrounded, taking risks you wouldn't if you were alone, rushing the enemy to get the first chainsaw slice of the level is lots of fun.

Co-op is 95% of my play time on Gears. There's the real value of it, imo.

Re:!overrated?

[Kneo24]

I don't understand why games which are completely unrealistic in just about every fashion try to go the "realism" route with some gameplay mechanics. It's very easy to ignore that they obviously won't work in real life if the mechanic is fun and adds value to the game. If we've suspended our ability for disbelief that far, why not go a little further when it was already done a thousand times before? Ultimately, realism != gameplay

Cliffyphoria

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2XYf4zI-I4

He's a douche...

[madhatter256]

He's a douchebag. Stole Reality Engine for pennies, hired its programmer and then dropped his ass. Small community indeed... my ass.

Fuck Fucking.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The reason PC gamers aren't going wild for Epic's games recently is because Epic stopped caring for PC gamers. The only thing UT3 has going for it is that it's prettier than UT2k4. There's less content, less features, and it's buggier. There's a fantastic mod community for it, but I'd expected much more official extras (like the prequels). There's no word on what's going to happen for patch 1.4 or indeed, if there will be a patch 1.4 (there damn well better be, voice chat still gives me issues over private Hamachi games!). Epic hasn't rereleased a stable demo yet, preferring to just keep offering their garbage "beta demo."

Well first of all it's about the same features. As one review said about UT3 it's "more of the same". You're right it did have fewer levels than the previous version. As for bugs well what game doesn't? At least there's a 1.1-1.3 which BTW came out in August. Keep your shirt on. And last let us not forget that Epic much like Id is about the game engine. Remember the accusations about Epic before UT3 came out?

"I hate to sound crusty, but Epic had a big hit in the form of Gears of War and all of a sudden decided that PC gamers weren't worth paying attention to. So they shit on us and then complain that we don't buy their games?"

So which came first? The low sales and then the "shitting"? Or was it "shitting" first then low sales? The thing about piracy is it makes for lousy ammo regardless of which side one's on.

Re:Fuck Fucking.

[WDot]

Well first of all it's about the same features.

While all the game modes are more or less the same, niceties such as a PC-style options menu (i.e. meticulous control of the options), an included IRC client, and a playlist editor are nowhere to be found. I used all these features extensively in UT2004 and I thought it was a given that they would be in UT3.

As for bugs well what game doesn't?

I won'd deny that no software is free from bugs. However, I never experienced problems with an unpatched UT2k4 install, let alone the current version I have installed and play regularly right now. I'd be happy to remove this bullet point if Epic released 1.4 or whatever it takes to have the game functional enough to play without troubleshooting or ignoring features. Plus it's unacceptable to have this "beta" release as a demo. I believe the UT2004 demo had an update that included current code and new maps. But even if it didn't, the old demo just worked.

And last let us not forget that Epic much like Id is about the game engine

Being a "game engine developer" doesn't mean I'll give you a free pass if you make a shoddy game. That goes for id, Epic, or anybody.

So which came first? The low sales and then the "shitting"? Or was it "shitting" first then low sales? The thing about piracy is it makes for lousy ammo regardless of which side one's on.

It doesn't matter. If I ran a kitchenware company, auto company, or ANY company for that matter, it would be unprofessional and frankly stupid to insult my customers. If you've followed Epic over the past few months, they have acted atrociously toward their PC customers. Before announcing Gears of War 2 would not be coming to PC, they also announced that Unreal Engine 4 would be designed especially for "next-gen consoles first." Tim Sweeney is dealing with gaming nerds, he knows that sentence is flamebait. They have blamed the relative failures of UT3 and Gears PC on piracy, while ignoring the faults of the products themselves. (Gears was ported to the PC too late and too buggy to be relevant, regardless of any extra content they shoehorned in.) Forum topics politely voicing legitimate complaints about these products have been locked and ignored.

In other gaming news sites Epic still enjoys a level of popularity because of 360 owners who are hyped about Gears of War 2. Epic Games is a business, and if they feel there is more profit in consoles then that's their prerogative. Abandoning PC for console in itself is not bad. My anger comes from their burning bridges by treating their existing fanbase, one that has been loyal for over a decade, with such disdain. It's tasteless and PC gamers shouldn't put up with it. I won't.

Re:Fuck Fucking.

[justinlee37]

They just don't know how to compete. Gears of War did better on the consoles because it had less competitors. In the PC market, they're getting shut out by giants like Valve and Crytek in the FPS market.

Re:Fuck Fucking.

[apoc.famine]

I'd add to this list the fact that the game lacked a mid-game map vote, the map voting did not allow a change in gametype, and you were unable to ban by CD key, and instead banned by Gamespy ID, a newly required and completely stupid requirement which was easily circumvented. The game also shipped without a web-admin interface, and when one did show up, it was piss-poor.

UT2k4 was hosted something like 80% of the time on linux servers, yet UT3 shipped without a linux server port, and was without one for several months, all the while Epic complained about low PC sales.

While many of these issues have been at least partially addressed, the fact remains that UT2k4 had all of these features. The fact you would REGRESS from one version to another is mindblowing to me. If you remove important and working features, and then badmouth your customers, how do you expect to keep them?

Re:!overrated?

[blahplusplus]

"I played Gears of War 1 on the PC."

Gears of Wars for the PC was a travesty, that windows for live shit just killed it. Not to mention the crash to desktop bugs. Gears for PC was a sloppy seconds port, and I think we should all kill microsoft for introducing windows live bullshit. I imagine it was more to to frustrate users/pirates then anything else, but Gears war pirated anyway.

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Re:!overrated?

[sjorgnsn]

Have you looked at the characters in Gears of War? Have you seen the armor they wear?

Do you really think you could jump over an obstacle that "didn't even reach my knees" in that stuff?

Primadonna hack

[module0000]

is "CliffyB". Fail more kiddo.

Epic has a chance

[zeus1521]

I think that epic games are better when their multi-player and video game console are better game erady now a days that PC. Not everyone has a computer that can handle a game like this. I think that games like this are on a good for the face you get to challenge others and compete with your crew.

sWiiny

[Anonymous Coward]

hey, im a happy customer who actually tried it be4 he buyed it. Well torrent. Why? A PC superior to x360 specs has difficulties running it in quality and guys fail to have a demo. Great, game has ridiculous attitude that makes you cry and laugh of stupidity the same time ( like sWeeny says "neat and cool game ideas"), the BUGS! the LINEARITY, different level same shooting, same ugly monster you already killed 100 times. Look man, I dont care about their high score on xbox360, perhaps it was for kids, but I feel my time was stolen. For every hour i work, multiply it by hourly salary and I feel you bastards took something from me. Why the hell would i pay for such shit whatever platform it is. How shit must a game be to be uninstalled after it was torrented? No really!?

Re:sWiiny

[michaelhood]

So, in summary..

You accidentally the whole game?

Re:!overrated?

[Skuldo]

Because this game is based around cover. You get slaughtered if you leave your self in the open, most of the game is spent rolling, diving, ducking for cover, creeping round walls.

MOD PARENT UP

[El_Muerte_TDS]

It's not just funny, but also insightful to point out that just because you do X in a game doesn't make the whole game suck (specially not in general).

It's just like saying HL2 sucks because you can't stick to walls and obstacles to take cover. Or fire you gun without sticking your head out.

Re:!overrated?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

I play and read a LOT of 40k. And I'm going to have to say that the Space Marines from 40k wear a LOT more armor and can still hop over things.

I actually know Cliff

[bornyesterday]

I was dicking around in Raleigh for a few years after graduating from NC State and worked at the Starbucks around the corner from where he lives and saw him almost daily. He was always a pretty down to earth and engaging person. We'd talk about things ranging from new movies to weekend plans to what he thought about last years E3. I don't really have any opinion of Epic and what Cliff has and hasn't done as part of ensuring that the company he works for continues to be successful, so it's possible that he's different when publicly promoting his games/company, but I know that as just some guy on the way to work, or a guy out walking his dogs, he's a pretty cool dude.

Re:I actually know Cliff

[memristance]

HIS MOM IS A CLASSY LADY!

Re:!overrated?

[m50d]

What, and WH40K is a realistic reflection of how all heavy armour operates?

Re:!overrated?

[dhermann]

I played Gears of War 1 on the PC. And while it was kinda pretty, I closed and uninstalled it when I was unable to jump over an obstacle that didn't even reach my knees.

Hint: hold "up" and hit your action key. gg uninstalling a great FPS because you can't figure out a large icon at the bottom of your screen indicating how to jump over an obstacle.

Re:!overrated?

[bigstrat2003]

gg uninstalling a great FPS

He didn't do that. He uninstalled a mediocre, at best, third-person shooter. I agree with the start of the thread, Gears of War wasn't even a good game. It's a third-person shooter (and that in itself is bad) with serious camera issues, and absolutely nothing fun. Why the article spent so much time fawning over Epic's worst game is beyond me. Talk about UT or something if you want to fawn over one of their games.

Arrrr!

[Anonymous Coward]

Me hearty, them not be proper merry pirates ye be a-blamin'! Them be crackers! If ye need to lay blame outside crackers, blame 'em ninja scallywags instead!

Yo ho ho! Heave ho!

Cracking is fer them young lads, piracy on the open seas is fer real men! Arrrr!

Mr Mate, off to th' coast o' Somalia! Time fer a-pillagin' and plunderin'!

Re:!overrated?

[dhermann]

He uninstalled a mediocre, at best, third-person shooter. I agree with the start of the thread, Gears of War wasn't even a good game.

You know, I originally thought I was just going to reply and say that we disagree and both our opinions are valid. But instead I've decided to actually disprove what you are saying.

It's a third-person shooter (and that in itself is bad)

False. http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/942000.asp and http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/gearsofwar both show high marks, ~87%, with the X360 version getting even higher scores. Even Gamespot gave it an 8.7. So, unless the entire community of game critics is crazy, being a third-person shooter is not, in itself, bad.

absolutely nothing fun

False. Over 5 million copies worldwide, including 1 for me, and I know I had fun.

Why the article spent so much time fawning over Epic's worst game is beyond me.

False. See also, One Must Fall: 2097.

gg. Feel free to tell me you didn't like it, but don't tell me it's bad because you can't figure out how to look over someone's shoulder.

Re:!overrated?

[bigstrat2003]

You know, I originally thought I was just going to reply and say that we disagree and both our opinions are valid.

And then you thought about it, and you did just that... so, you must not have had any earth-shattering thoughts when you stopped and thought about it.

Let me give you a protip. There is nothing but opinion where art is concerned. When we say games are "good" or "bad", we're essentially just bickering about our personal opinions. It can be fun, but it's a meaningless pissing contest in the end. I'm cool with this, I accept it. But if you think you can "disprove" someone's personal opinion about a game, or whatever, you don't have a good grasp of the reality of the situation.

And all that said, I still maintain Gears was an absolutely crap game. Pretty, but crap.

Epic Megagames

[Robyrt]

I have WAY more respect for Cliff after reading his involvement with Jazz Jackrabbit, a criminally underrated PC game which took itself much less seriously than anything using the Unreal Engine. (Imagine Sonic with guns.) Although the article is dismissive of Tim Sweeney's portfolio back when the company was called Epic Megagames, many of their titles were ahead of their time. From Jazz Jackrabbit's episodic content to Epic Pinball's mix-and-match pricing to One Must Fall 2097's customizable characters in a fighting game, they weren't always the front-runners in the Retread Wars. The decision to drop wacky games and focus on Unreal disappointed fans, but turned out to be a very shrewd business decision. I have no doubt that the decision to stop waving the hardcore PC flag and focus on 360 will be the same.

Gears on PC was badly done

[Joker1980]

While i have no doubt piracy was an issue i do think its arrogant and extremly shortsighted to blame piracy for the lack of sales. The 360 is basically at its heart a PC dedicated to gaming. And for me at least that was the problem. I played gears to death on the 360, when it was released for the pc most of us were done with it and the additional content wasent enuff to justify buying a second copy of the same game. I will admit i downloaded the pc version but not with any intention of playing it. At the time i had just upgraded my gaming rig and was interested in running them side by side to see how much better (if any) it looked. The game was so full of bugs and glitches (not even mentioning Windows live, yuck) that i didnt even get that that far before i uninstalled and deleted it.

Now this is just my feelings (and my circle of friends) but as far as we see it gears PC was a lame attempted to squeese more cash out of us. it was ported at absolutely minimum expense, then when gamers went 'meh' Epic insulted the very people that got them where they are today.

Fuck Epic

Re:!overrated?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Well, they have a bunch of power armor. What's the point of power armor if it can't jump?

Re:!overrated?

[m50d]

To like, I don't know, protect you from being killed?

Re:!overrated?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

And being able to jump helps you avoid being killed.

The only reason you can't jump in GoW is because they were worried people wouldn't use their ripped off cover system, proving that jumping is just as useful in video-game combat as a cover system.

Re:!overrated?

[m50d]

And being able to jump helps you avoid being killed.

Sure, but it may not be practical in a suit of armour heavy enough to afford protection.

The only reason you can't jump in GoW is because they were worried people wouldn't use their ripped off cover system, proving that jumping is just as useful in video-game combat as a cover system.

And you have some evidence for this assertion?

Re:!overrated?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

It's what CliffyB said when asked: "Why is there no jumping?"