Microsoft's Office Web Will Do iPhone, Linux, Mac

CWmike writes "Gregg Keizer reports Microsoft has clarified that its upcoming Office Web service will be available to users running Mac OS X and Linux, as well as from Apple's iPhone. The key to this cross platform-friendliness: Office Web will run in Firefox and Safari browsers, in addition to IE. Introduced last month, Office Web is a lightweight version of its Office suite that runs as an online service. I think it's time for Google to embrace OpenOffice.org to take on Microsoft head-on, as CW blogger Preston Gralla has argued for and described how to go about it."

Comments

Office Web is a 'lightweight' version of Office

[bugeaterr]

Kinda like a deep-fried stick of butter is a "lightweight" version of two deep-fried sticks of butter.

Re:Office Web is a 'lightweight' version of Office

[RustinHWright]

If I had mod points right now I would mod this funny.

As it is, I'm saving it as a quote. Go, bugeaterr.

Re:Office Web is a 'lightweight' version of Office

[superphreak]

If I had mod points right now I would mod this funny.
You also wouldn't be commenting on this... point made! ;)

The real key is AJAX

[77Punker]

So the real key to this is using AJAX like everyone else (Google, Yahoo, Slashdot, my employer's internal web apps, my grandmother) instead of some proprietary ActiveX bullshit.

Way to go, Microsoft!

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Brian Gordon]

Yes, the key is AJAX. And the last time I checked you can't run C++ code in a browser, so openoffice is completely irrelevant. Unless you want to copy and paste the source code and resources into some kind of javascript C++-interpreter-and-JVM monster. Anyway, OpenOffice is so bloated already that it's snail slow and uses obscene amounts of memory.. even a rewritten javascript version of it would be horrifying.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

So the real key to this is using AJAX like everyone else (Google, Yahoo, Slashdot, my employer's internal web apps, my grandmother) instead of some proprietary ActiveX bullshit.

Way to go, Microsoft!

The first component to allow client-side scripts to issue HTTP requests (XMLHTTP) was originally written by the Outlook Web Access team. It soon became a part of Internet Explorer 5.0. Renamed XmlHttpRequest and standardized by the World Wide Web Consortium,[1] it has since become one of the cornerstones of the Ajax technology used to build advanced web applications.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[jmyers]

My guess is it will be mostly Silverlight with some light ajax to make it functional where SL is not available. MS will have a major hook in it one way or another.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[77Punker]

Yeah, I really don't understand why people complain about MS Office when Open Office runs like a turd MS Office does not.

Microsoft certainly has one good product; Office is great as long as you ignore Access.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft Office Web involves SILVERLIGHT . SilverLight is patent encumbered and Novell could only make their MoonLight equivalent with deals in Microsoft.

This is not AJAX other than treating JavaScript as a bootstrap loader for SilverLight's .Net VM. It only works in Firefox and Safari in the same way that Flash or Java Applets do.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[east coast]

The key to Access is keeping what it is in perspective. Too many dopes out there are trying to turn Access into a catch-all solution and it wasn't developed that way. While it is crawling in that direction it's going to be a number of years before it ever bears any real fruit as something more than a low-end fast and dirty database appliance.

There's a reason that it's only part of the MS Office suite and not the MS Office suite in and of itself.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[stewbacca]

Microsoft has a "good" product in Office only in the sense that "good" is a relative term. If there were something else/anything else worth 1kb of space on my hard drive, then maybe Office wouldn't be so "good".

Re:The real key is AJAX

[cayenne8]

Speaking as someone who has had to implement a 'real' RDBMS and system to interface with from an access 'database' that one of the PHB's threw together and had been used for awhile...I vote that Access be banned from the desktop!! Too often these consist of only one or two large tables, etc. Trying to get the data out of these things with mixed case fields, and free form text fields with lots of nice embedded returns quotes and commas can prove to be a nightmare. Good thing they say me a lot!

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

It would just be a case of implimenting X11 server protocol or a reasonable subset of it in Java or Javascript, then you could run any X11 compliant app in a browser that can jupport it.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[dedazo]

If I had a dollar for every time I've walked into a meeting with a prospective client and heard the phrase "well, the application runs on Access now..." I'd buy me a Ferrari and hire a full-time clown.

But yes, you're right, people tend to abuse the tools they have at hand.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

Why guess if you can read TFA?

Office Web will use Microsoft's Silverlight rich Internet plug-in for added functionality such as extra zooming or prettified fonts, though users aren't required to use it, he said.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[DigDuality]

There are things you can do to increase OO.o 2.0's performance. 3.0 runs like a champ. and for those that say OO.o doesn't run in a browser..I present to you: http://www.ulteo.com/home/en/home?autolang=en

Re:The real key is AJAX

[cayenne8]

Oops that was pay me a lot, not say me a lot.

Damned T9 software...

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Legion_SB]

Your grandmother doesn't run AJAX. Requests I send her never get responded to!

Re:The real key is AJAX

[dwiget001]

You obviously have not used Open Office.

Thank you for playing.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[nurb432]

Don't bother trying to defend MSAccess around here. While i agree with you totally that it has its place, and does well there, people are too thick headed to appreciate the truth.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

Other sites say otherwise. Odds are it depends on SilverLight as it's the Microsoft platform for web apps, and speaking as a web developer who's familiar with the limits of HTML5 you could not do half the stuff you need in an Office Suite even in HTML5.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[FishWithAHammer]

OpenOffice 3.0 has one feature I like: PDF import.

It sucks very, very hard compared to Office 2003 for quite literally everything else I have tried to use it for.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Your Pal Dave]

While it's pretty easy to make a horrid database in Access, bear in mind that if there were no Access those same 'Power Users' would be making their 'databases' in Excel instead. This is at least an order of magnitude worse as far as extracting useful data goes. Been there, done that, got the gray hair to prove it.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[peragrin]

Isn't that the same thing?

Re:The real key is AJAX

[jamstar7]

Yeah, I really don't understand why people complain about MS Office when Open Office runs like a turd MS Office does not.

Back in the Stone Age, when Win98 was coming out, M$ decided to sell developer's licenses for $20K per. What you got for that 20K was info on two, count 'em, two system calls, one of which was for the keyboard interrupt, and an admonishment from M$ to not write your apps to the hardware anymore, write them to the OS. Of course, M$ had their inhouse people write to the iron, the undocumented hooks to the OS, and everywhere they could to save some clock cycles. End result, M$ software ran faster, was lighter, etc. At that time, Office used the renderer from Windows Explorer (as did IE, and just about everything else M$ put out with a house brand on it), while Word Perfect had to include its own renderer, print drivers, ad nauseum. If you wanted performance, you hauled out the Ralf Brown interrupt list, and coded some assembly to handle the interrupts directly to the OS & drivers.

Office still writes to undocumented system calls & interrupts, while 3rd party apps don't. And you wonder why OO is a 'turd' while Office isn't?

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Tatsh]

I don't see how that is really useful. Shouldn't you already have the original text version of such a document? PDF was never made for 'importing' and editing.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you please use a few more dollar signs when you post? Right now you're at the point where I simply dismiss whatever you're saying. But verily, if you use a few dozen more, I'll start to think you're just disabled and take your opinion seriously in the name of equality and progress.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

At work, I have to use Access. VB is the ugliest language I've ever programmed in. I put a cloths pin on my nose to handle the stink when I have to work with it. But, yeah, it does the job, mostly.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

"Office still writes to undocumented system calls & interrupts"

This is a lie. I am an Office developer.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[FishWithAHammer]

You'd think, but on occasion I've lost .doc's I've exported to PDF, but still had the PDF I emailed to someplace (thanks, GMail!).

Handy feature, and I'm not paying through the nose to get it from Adobe.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[jhol13]

Way to go, Microsoft!

Please. They do this only because Google is leading in the game. If they really were after interoperability Sharepoint would properly work in Firefox (and Opera, ...).

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Brian Gordon]

I suppose this is possible if you compile the OO.o source code to java bytecode and stick it in an applet.
*shudder*

Re:The real key is AJAX

[lysergic.acid]

that's true. XmlHttpRequest is indeed something that Microsoft has done right and that we should thank them for. and i think it's one of the rare examples showing that Microsoft can be a positive contributor to the web community. so it might actually be a good thing that Microsoft is trying to get into mobile web services. since they do not control the mobile browser market and can't just make everyone switch to IE, this will force MS to keep cross-browser compatibility in mind when developing these advanced web apps.

and as most web developers know, cross browser compatibility is probably one of the most difficult/laborious aspects of web design/development. and the reason for this is largely due to MS's intransigent habit of flouting established open web standards in developing IE. most web browsers are fairly reasonable when it comes to W3C compliance, and it doesn't take much to get a complex layout or application to work across Opera, Firefox, Konquerer, and the majority of common browsers. but IE is always the single browser that requires endless tweaking and inconvenient CSS hacks to get a cross-browser compatible web page.

now that Microsoft has to deal with cross-browser compatibility issues themselves, perhaps they will finally realize the insanity that is caused by their inconsiderate development philosophy. instead of disregarding open web standards and then wasting thousands of man-hours to work around the inconsistencies in browser implementations that they themselves introduce, maybe--just maybe--they will stop being a poor corporate netizen and work with the W3C rather than against it.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[spisska]

Yeah, I really don't understand why people complain about MS Office when Open Office runs like a turd MS Office does not.

Microsoft certainly has one good product; Office is great as long as you ignore Access.

Not sure where to start with this. There are many cases where MS Office runs like a turd and OO.org does not.

On the whole, MS Office is a superior product, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas in which OO.org does better, or that there aren't areas in which MS Office is a pure dung heap.

Word vs Writer: For me, this is a draw. Both packages do most of the same things equally well. Word has more (and more easily accessible) 'power' features, but it's something of a fool's errand to try and produce a complicated document in either.

At least with OO.org you have xml source to look at when the formatting goes awry. With MS Office, things seem to change on whim from system to system or depending on the phase of the moon, and there's no way to figure out what is happening or why (this is a common theme with all the MS Office apps).

As far as trouble-shooting odd formatting, MS Word still lags behind WordPerfect 5.0, where you can see from the embedded codes exactly what will happen with your formatting. With Word, you're essentially praying that WYS is really WYG.

Excel vs Calc: For now Excel is the clear winner, although with a few caveats. It's much better at doing things like inserting rows and columns -- inserts preserve formatting of surrounding cells, while in Calc inserts tend to get default formatting. Charting in Excel is also better, at least currently, in Excel.

My big issue with Excel is its utter failure to handle properly comma-quote csv. For cells containing numbers, Excel will ignore its own formatting of those cells as text, and still export them as numbers -- meaning lots of havoc when dealing with things like IDs and Zip codes that have leading zeros. Also, try changing the format of something that looks like a date to text. Now try changing it back to a date.

Powerpoint vs Impress: Not so much a question of which is better as which is less bad. On the whole Impress seems to mangle things a lot less, and seems to make far fewer (wildly incorrect) assumptions about what you're trying to do.

It's easier to throw a presentation together in Powerpoint, but nearly impossible to make it look really good. (If you've got a Powerpoint presentation you think looks really good, you've never seen a really good-looking presentation.)

Access vs Base: This is a tough one, mainly because while these products look similar they are actually very different.

Access actually does pretty well for what it is and within its own limitations. Yes, it is a toy database but it does let you do database-type operations on small data sets quickly and easily.

On the other hand, its ~2 GB filesize limit, its nasty habit of corrupting data, and it's baffling default query window behavior all mean that it's not something you can use for serious work.

If your data set has tens of thousands of rows, Access can handle it just fine. If you've got a million rows, forget about it. If you want your database to scale, forget about it.

Base is not a toy database, or even a database at all. It's a simple frontend for a proper RDBMS system, like MySQL or PostgreSQL. As such, it looks more spare but is far more powerful and scalable.

Outlook vs Anything Else: Winner: Anything else. I simply cannot take anything MS says about search or accessibility or convenience seriously until they fix this steaming pile of garbage. As long as it takes minutes to search my ~250 MB Exchange mailbox, and until Outlook can properly handle message threading I simply have nothing positive to say about this turd.

So where do Google Apps fit in? What they lack in polish and functionality, they make up for in speed, accessibility, and collaboration. They're not there yet, but the thread

Re:The real key is AJAX

[superphreak]

tag - "goodluckwiththat" ;)

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Brian Gordon]

Have you used Office 2007 very much? It seems like you have some biases from the 95-2003 days. Outlook is beautiful and utilitarian, and search is fast. I've noticed that Powerpoint and especially Word make far less ridiculous default choices for list and table formatting than they used to; it tends to just work the way you wanted it, although it would still be difficult to wrangle into a different look. The Ribbon is kind of gimmicky but perfect for Outlook's compose interface where you only need a few operations on gigantic buttons. Also you should look into Gnumeric instead of Calc.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[rabbit994]

For the search to be fast you need to be running Windows Desktop Search Application. For most people that isn't a problem but I've seen some IT departments refuse to install it. It even does Exchange searching client side (assuming your in Cached Exchange mode)

Re:The real key is AJAX

[spisska]

Have you used Office 2007 very much? It seems like you have some biases from the 95-2003 days. Outlook is beautiful and utilitarian, and search is fast.

I haven't used 2007 at all. We're all XP at work (with no plans to migrate) and I'm Linux at home.

But does Outlook 2007 do real threading? Many people I correspond with know enough to bottom-post and trim messages. This can make it very frustrating when only incoming mail is arranged in 'conversations' but I need to search sent mail to get to what I said.

I do think Office is a very good product, but it's becoming harder and harder to justify the price.

If $0 gets me 85% of what I want and $500 gets me 90%, I'll take free. If $500 gets me 99+% of what I want, I can much more easily rationalize the expense.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[rohan972]

I don't see how that is really useful. Shouldn't you already have the original text version of such a document? PDF was never made for 'importing' and editing.

Sometimes I've had to use pdf printable forms. I prefer to type my info than print the form and write on it. In that case I do not have the original version.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Siridar]

You think access is bad? Have you _seen_ what some people do with excel?

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Man On Pink Corner]

PDF was never made for 'importing' and editing.

True, but the reality is, users want to be able to do just that.

Developers who satisfy that wish are going to do very well for themselves over the next few years.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

"Please", yourself. IE provides a better platform for Sharepoint, that's all.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

How come Abiword isn't a turd then? How come OpenOffice is also slow on Mac and Linux?

Re:The real key is AJAX

[AArnott]

You're wrong, jamstar7. Microsoft Office does NOT write to undocumented system calls any more.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[rts008]

"While i agree with you totally that it has its place, and does well there, people are too thick headed to appreciate the truth."

I would have let your comment slide except for that(above) statement. Actually, I only have a problem with the statement after the last comma. (...people are too thick headed to appreciate the truth.")

You, sir, are too thin to appreciate reality and the truth. Crawl back under your Redmond rock...this has been dealt with with FOSS for a long time now.

The 'truth' as you subscribe to is slanted.

I do not deny that Access can be useful in a Windows environment, but not everyone drinks that Koolaid. Get over it, some of us do just great without Windows of any flavor.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[prozaker]

you obviously forgot about frontpage

Re:The real key is AJAX

[prozaker]

what's so bad about access and vba isnt that its vb its that all the code is embedded into the application. you have: tables + queries + reports + forms + vba all in sales.mdb and it might be "ok" for a 1 man job, but try it with a team of ppl, its stupidity at its best. you cant merge those files together. instead of svn you just store them away in diff folders. 'luckily' good ol' microsoft thought about it, and lets you do a drag and drop operation, cute.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Richard_at_work]

SharePoint (WSS 3 and MOSS 2007) is perfectly functional in Firefox for me - I use it every day.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[shutdown -p now]

Other sites are not reliable sources - they have no source of information other than those same MS press releases, so anything they say above what's there is pure conjecture.

Meanwhile, here's another MS source, and here's what it says:

Q: Do the Office Web Applications require Internet Explorer?

A: No! Office Web applications will work across multiple platforms and browsers including Safari and Firefox, too.

Q : Is Silverlight required in order to use the Office Web Applications?

A: No! Silverlight is not required. Using Silverlight will enhance the user experience, resulting in sharper images and improved rendering. Also, the Office Live Workspace has integrated Silverlight technology into the multi-file upload function for a better experience there, too.

Q: Will the Microsoft Office Web Applications work on Linux?

A: Yes! It does not matter which operating system is used as long as you're running a supported web browser.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[shutdown -p now]

It will. Due to standards-by-default mode in IE8, they'll have to fix SharePoint to handle that - and they've already said that they will do it. Which will likely mean much better browser support overall.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

"running a supported browser"... given Microsoft's incessant practice of using user-agent checking to enable|disable support of entire applications, I suppose this means they won't be supporting Opera or Konqueror; strictly IE, Firefox, and Safari. Still, eons better than the MS status quo.

The oddity here is that they say these office applications will be provided via Office Live, which states: "To use Microsoft Office Live, your computer must meet one of the following requirements:. Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 or 7, running on Microsoft Windows ..."

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonimouse]

Yeah, and AJAX is enabled by XMLHttpRequest. I wonder who came up with that? Criticizing is fine as longs as it's fair.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Bonobo_Unknown]

access and excel are both but a connection string away...

Re:The real key is AJAX

[shutdown -p now]

The oddity here is that they say these office applications will be provided via Office Live, which states: "To use Microsoft Office Live, your computer must meet one of the following requirements:. Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 or 7, running on Microsoft Windows ..."

Office Live is itself presently in beta. Whatever it may require now can (and probably will) change. For one thing, it doesn't use Silverlight currently, which is obviously something that will be rectified :)

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a lie.

It *probably* is false. But how do you know? Have you (or anyone outside of MS) seen *and fully analysed* all the Office source code? Or traced through every code path? No? Then it's *possible* that Office still uses undocumented OS calls.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[joeljkp]

I agree with much of this, but one nitpick about Access vs. Base.

It's probably true that most people use Access with .accdb (or .mdb) files, and the few people who use Base probably use it to access MySQL, etc. But Access can indeed be a front-end to any ODBC database, and the default for Base is to use its own embedded HSQL file. No comments on HSQK vs. accdb, but the concepts for both are the same.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[jhol13]

Lucky you. It did[1] not for me.

[1] Five months ago in my previous job.

I am certain it will never work as well with FF as with IE. Why would it?

Re:The real key is AJAX

[Brian Gordon]

Well I really do recommend you try 2007. Full revision control, it lets you add sources to your papers in any format you want (References, Works Cited; MLA, APA, chigago..) just by filling in the fields, and it's full of context-sensitive style suggestions that let you make an attractive-looking document with a single click. The ribbon is annoying but powerful. And everything is really amazingly fast. Yeah it's expensive, but it certainly is a step up and will save you some serious headaches.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[nurb432]

i *never* said there weren't alternatives, and I use them myself ( tho i will argue that they don't appeal to the same demographic that MSAccess is targeted towards ). i am only saying that MSAccess gets a undeserved bad rap.

Re:The real key is AJAX

[jamstar7]

How come Abiword isn't a turd then? How come OpenOffice is also slow on Mac and Linux?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I don't have Abiword installed atm. The apt-get looks like this, though:

The following NEW packages will be installed:
abiword abiword-common abiword-help abiword-plugin-grammar
abiword-plugin-mathview latex-xft-fonts libaiksaurus-1.2-0c2a
libaiksaurus-1.2-data libaiksaurusgtk-1.2-0c2a libgdome2-0
libgdome2-cpp-smart0c2a libgtkmathview0c2a liblink-grammar4 libloudmouth1-0
libots0 libwv-1.2-3 link-grammar-dictionaries-en
0 upgraded, 17 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 7803kB of archives.
After this operation, 25.4MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y

IIRC, Abiword was a minimal editor, wasn't WYSIWYG like Office & OO are. Haven't looked at it in ages, so I don't know what all's changed. Looks like it uses LaTex for a back end these days.

As for the 2nd question, OO still uses its own renderer, you can tell that from the sourcecode.

LOL

[ral8158]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaa.
That's a funny joke.
Oh Microsoft. You're so funny.
Hahahahahaha.
Compatability with non-Vista, non-Internet Explorer user experiences?
Oh jeeze. This ought to be interesting.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

"Microsoft's Office Web Will Do iPhone, Linux, Mac"

Is this the sequel to "Debbie Does Dallas"?

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because Office is looking to fuck iPhone, Linux, and Mac users.

make light weight software all the time!

[madcat2c]

If Microsoft would just make light weight, fast, effective, good software to begin with, none of this would even be a problem for them.

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[Corpuscavernosa]

Honestly, we probably would because what else would we do? Occasionally we bitch about Google, Apple, and even, once in awhile LINUX (gasp!). If we didn't bitch about stuff, I don't know that I'd visit /. all that often...

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[CannonballHead]

Name a useful, good, and professional-document-producing office suite that is light weight, fast, and effective. OO.org is *not* all that. In my experience, it is slower.

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[Enderandrew]

Honestly, MS Office is faster than OOo, effective and good.

The problem with MS Office is proprietary formats.

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[Cajun Hell]

vim

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[FishWithAHammer]

He said "professional," not "freetard."

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[Inner_Child]

Alright then, LaTeX.

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[blueZ3]

OK then, emacs...

Wait, never mind. He said "light weight"

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[daem0n1x]

This whole Ms Office versus OO cock-fighting is so stupid.

I use Linux at home, I couldn't use MS Office even if I wanted. And if I used Windows, I couldn't afford MS Office, so what's the big deal?

If you don't like OO, get some money, buy MS Office and be happy.

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[FishWithAHammer]

Thank you. :)

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[CannonballHead]

I actually do use openoffice, simply because it's free.

I also use Lotus Notes, because I have to, and dislike it very much.

I also use Symphony... dislike that very much, too.

And I use MS Office occasionally because I have to. But the point is, Office is actually a pretty good product and there isn't much substitute for it when it comes to actual professional document stuff... unless you can "get away" with OO.org.

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[CannonballHead]

Erm, clarification... Symphony is more or less similar to OO which I don't really dislike... but Symphony/Java stuff in general is so slow. Sometimes painfully slow. Especially with spreadsheets, I have found.

Re:make light weight software all the time!

[Anonymous Coward]

And if I used Windows, I couldn't afford MS Office, so what's the big deal?

Office 2007 home & student edition is $95 at Amazon. If you can afford a PC and Internet connection, you could afford this.

NB I personally am very happy running Openoffice on Ubuntu.

Here's what'll happen

[V!NCENT]

At first they create something that is accesible by everyone. Then, when everyone is locked in product, they will do the same thing with Hotmail: sniff web agents and deny acces to everyone running Linux. When this happens, people will start to use fake user agents. After their "switch to Windows" attempt has failed, Microshit will 'evolve' MS Office for Web(TM) with releasing a newer version with 'extended capabilities' that requires the latest IE rendering crap on order to properly view the 'web app'. Then everyone will start installing the latest IE with Wine. When that happens they will release OOXML2(R)(TM)(c) which is a proprietary web format that only works with the latest IE, but hey, if you want an open standard, then why don't you save your documents in OOXML1?/sarcasm.

Re:Here's what'll happen

[jmyers]

If you RTFA this is more of a rumor than fact, someone in a blog post says it will support os other than windows. They say Silverlight is not required but will make it run better. I suspect they will treat non-IE clients as "downlevel" browsers. It will probably be very slick in IE and very dull in other browsers. It will keep IE users from switching to FF because "office sucks in FF".

Re:Here's what'll happen

[Anonymous Coward]

INCORRECT, it depends on Silverlight. Quote: "Microsoft clarified in an email that these apps will use HTML and AJAX, but also Silverlight components." --Source

Not what, but who.

[Erris]

The question really is, who wants to run M$ Office on their iPhone? They need an online version to stem losses to Google Docs at Universities, but who's really going to take the bait? Knowing M$, this is going to depend on some special kind of download, Silverblight and not work very well, so it's still going to be easier to use Google Docs and Open Office. Thanks to ODF, these two things already work together. M$ Office is the odd man out.

Re:Not what, but who.

[renegadesx]

Yes I know this is a twitter shill but I just want to make some points

I for one have found Silverlight (actually Moonlight) to run better on my Linux/Firefox PC than Flash IMO. At least you can build it from source and make it run 64-bit natively

Riddle me this twitter, when is Adobe going to make a 64-bit Linux flash?... or when will Adobe help out the Gnash project?

Anyways Silverlight is more of a moot point, if they want it running on the iPhone and Safari you are just going to have to write good AJAX and Microsoft knows this.

In web services Microsoft knows it cant afford to lock out people that uses its competitions platforms as IE doesn't really have a stranglehold on the market anymore, I am not talking about Linux as much as I am talking about the iPhone, Firefox and other markets that they could open their products to that have web browsers like the Wii and PS3.

Despite it may be likely they have some sort of evil intentions but the most likely scenario is they have a revenue model around this and want as many customers as possible. When you have a product you want people to use and/or purchase it.

I myself may never use it (Google Docs/OpenOffice works great for me) but I am glad its there, it shows that Microsoft is acknowleging there is compeition which is a major step forward than where they were a decade ago.

Re:Not what, but who.

[Walter Carver]

Riddle me this twitter, when is Adobe going to make a 64-bit Linux flash?... or when will Adobe help out the Gnash project?

When they feel the breth of Silverlight down their throat. Don't get me wrong, I still think Silverlight is nothing but a lock-in, but maybe, just maybe, something good comes out of it (Moonlight) for us the open-source world.

Guide To The Barack Obongo Presidency

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.

INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.
You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape. At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.

CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER
Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway. Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat

HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.
Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers. You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put. Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.

FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.
Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc. Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result. You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton. You really would. Coffee beans? Don't ask. You have no idea.

MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.
Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind. The nigger's most

Re:Guide To The Barack Obongo Presidency

[FunkyRider]

Every time I see this, I just wanna fuck you in the anus

Depends....

[kellyb9]

I think it's time for Google to embrace OpenOffice.org to take on Microsoft head-on, as CW blogger Preston Gralla has argued for and described how to go about it.

Doesn't this really depend on whether or not Google WANTS to compete head to head with Microsoft. You don't make business decisions out of spite.

Re:Depends....

[Afforess]

Google allows you to upload/open Open Office Documents, will M$ word do that?

Re:Depends....

[kellyb9]

No, and if I was making the point that Microsoft is "awesomer" than Google, you'd be right, but I'm not. All I'm saying is maybe it isn't in Google's best interest to compete with Microsoft in every single avenue.

Re:Depends....

[jedidiah]

...seeing as Microsoft pretty my does all it can (legally or not) to destroy
everyone and everything that stands in their way, it would be pretty of naive
of Google to think that they can get away with anything less than total war.
That's how Microsoft treats the rest of the industry. Google is already
percieved as a threat. Attempting to do something that could rid Microsoft
of one of it's cash cows is not going to change anything with regards to how
Microsoft treats Google.

Re:Depends....

[Mista2]

But this is how we got Lambourghini 8)
Lambourghini goes back to Enzo Ferrari with a complaint about his crappy car, and Enzo tells him to "Go back to your Tractor Factory!"
So now we have the Countach, Diablo, etc. 8) Excellent alternatives to the dominant fast Fiats Ferrari make 8)

Re:Depends....

[Enderandrew]

Actually yes.

MS Office 2007 has a Sun developed plugin that allows ODF support, but even better, the next service pack from Microsoft is adding native ODF support without a plugin.

Re:Depends....

[gbjbaanb]

Clippy: "Hi, it looks like you're writing a letter. Would you like some help with that... using free templates from MyResume.com that provides the best offerings of free CV and job related resumes to give you that edge in your job hunt".

get the idea why Google would want to compete on an online Office suite?

Re:Depends....

[dannys42]

Maybe *you* don't.... But I intend to run my company like my political campaign, "I promise to do the exact opposite of whatever my opponent says!"

Re:Depends....

[Jeff Hornby]

You don't make business decisions out of spite.

Sure you do. But only if your name is Scott McNealy.

Re:Depends....

[Anonymous Coward]

The point regrets you missed the meeting at the appointed time.

The point will wait at the same location, in case you still want to meet and have a cup of coffee. The point has high hopes that you'll get along once you get a chance to meet it.

In the darkness bind them

[gmuslera]

I don't fully agree with Stallman regarding cloud computing, but if you add Microsoft's usual strategies to storing all your documents with them (lets take their word that any browser will be able to use their web office) some danger could be there.
At least with Google's one i can download the docs in OpenOffice/Word/RTF/HTML format, thats the other "compatibility" that MS Web Office should provide too.

Re:In the darkness bind them

[TheModelEskimo]

I agree. The risks are bad enough with Google that I've decided to migrate away from Google services. I'm steering my business into locally-developed and locally-hosted services, since many of my (admittedly hippie, but rich hippie) clients have started to notice that gigantic chunks of their business information can end up somewhere in a large "fog" of data centers. I say fog because "cloud" sounds too optimistic and doesn't do the obscuring nature of the whole thing justice.

Re:In the darkness bind them

[iCharles]

What! Rich Stallman is against something that he didn't personally conceive of and name? I can't believe it! He is usually an open-minded individual, willing to foster and encourage new concepts, and never one for not-invented-here syndrom!

Re:In the darkness bind them

[dedazo]

One thing that I've heard from IT folks at a few companies about this whole "documents on the web" thing is the potential of being able to host a cloud service internally to do that and avoid having to dedicate slow network shares or SharePoint installations to enable people to view other people's documents.

Within the corporate world this would be a huge deal. I don't know if Microsoft would be interested in creating a prepackaged solution for this like SBS that works and scales well at the enterprise level.

SharePoint is really great, but large companies tend to have a mishmash of disconnected SP sites all over the place, mostly at the OU or departmental level, and maintaining them ends up being expensive in the long run (although SP itself really is stable in my experience).

I think this would be more attractive than the edit-files-on-your-browser novelty.

Re:In the darkness bind them

[aztektum]

I don't think he's against cloud computing because he didn't think of it. I think he's against it because it encourages vendor lock-in (if you RTFA linked by the P) and puts your data under the control of a third party. Pretty much DIY-freedom is why Stallman is against cloud computing, a concept he advocated since he began sporting a 5 o'clock shadow.

I repeat the mantra "Our IT security is only as strong as our weakest link." at work. Unfortunately we still have to battle for even the most basic of precautions some times. Kind of ironic for a company that provides physical security access services.

Re:In the darkness bind them

[jellomizer]

I would agree it is important to be able for you to get your own data, This is an issue the companies policy not the Cloud Computing Model or the SaaS model, and msny SaaS companies do allow you to have the data. I didn't see when I skimmed the article about anything saying you can't get your own copy of the data. Otherwise Office Online would be useless. Like back in the 80's where they sold computers and said how good they would be for kids except they didn't have a printer attachment so they couldn't give their work to anyone else to read. Not being able to use the data offline wouldn't probably make it a failure. While having both will allow sharing of information. As well on those long trips without a network connection.

Re:In the darkness bind them

[Mista2]

I just wonder what feature won't be available in the other browsers.
I'm still waiting for a good Linux or OS X implimentation of the MS Communicator client.

Re:In the darkness bind them

[Vexorian]

The fuck? Who modded this idiot up?

Silverblight and Mono.

[twitter]

Good thing it's going to run like crap. The last thing the world needs is newbies demanding Silverblight and Mono, so that Steve Ballmer can point to it and say, "See, the dirty hippies really do need us and my patent claims on the kernel are valid. Pay your license fee now." M$'s monopoly trash might reinforce itself if they implemented it with reasonable standards. Their insistence on booby trapped code will always pull performance down. iPhone and GNU/Linux are not going to help M$ maintain their 25 year old file format lockin and "cash cow".

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[dedazo]

Do you figure there's a single moderator on Slashdot that doesn't know about your fourteen accounts and what you do with them?

Three different ones used in this article inside of 10 minutes.

And riddle me this, why do you reply to yourself as you did here instead of just making your point in a single post? I'm actually curious.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[KasperMeerts]

You know, everyone getting all wound up when Twitter responds to himself is really getting old. Just leave it, everybody either knows or doesn't care.
And for whatever the way he posts may be, he sometimes makes a really good point.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, the twitter-hunting jackasses are far more annoying than twitter himself - who, at least, occasionally makes a good point.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice shill twitter

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the new meme. Relax and enjoy it. twitter says he's here to "amuse", so be amused then.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Facetious]

It's obvious the poor guy suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder, you insensitive clod!

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Vexorian]

OH no! Accounts agree on slashdot! Could you please stop with your twitter conspiracy theories? It is certainly a shame a moron with mod points was dumb enough to mod you up. But that still makes your posts are way too annoying, we are getting fed up of your annoying twitter obsession, your spam is much worse than twitter's, thanks.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

He's admitted to agreeing to himself regularly, actually.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

Kids who think they're making a difference in how people perceive things. As if, somehow, all the anti-Microsoft rhetoric is going to sway our opinion (whatever it may be).

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[commodoresloat]

In other news, it turns out twitter has a fifteenth account under the name "dedazo"

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Tawnos]

It's obvious the poor guy suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder, you insensitive clod!

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Vexorian]

I mean my god!? This really makes you lose faith in slashdot's system, apparently enough morons got mod points today to give this conspiracy theorist spammer a +5 informative... Fuck! Yes that's right and all he did was freaking off-topic spam and a personal attack...

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Vexorian]

That doesn't make these morons' spam less annoying.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1028845&cid=25755391

You're a fucking moron.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's obvious the poor guy suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder, you insensitive clod!

                                                               

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[fireman sam]

Someone has to say them, so here we go:

I for one welcome our twitter responding overlords.

In soviet russia, twitter responds to you.

1. twitter
2. ???
3. Profit

Imagine a beowulf cluster of twitters

Yes, but can twitter run linux

Oh, and don't forget the Nazis.

*THREAD TERMINATED*

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Vexorian]

Let me say this again: Who the fuck cares? Yes, really. You keep spamming and spamming about this huge twitter conspiracy... And well all you spammers worry and agree so much on this that you are probably the same guy or something... The guy already has -1 karma, so where's the need to harass him over and over and over and over again? I guess you guys are just karma whores that want to get easy informative mods or MS fan boys that love the stupid chance for an ad hominem, but really, it is boring the hell out of people to see such obvious posts with points so freaking modded up.

That guy up there deserves an off-topic or redundant or something like that so it doesn't waste our time. Instead he gets +5 interesting, that's the problem with slashdot it randomly gives mod points to utter morons.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Vexorian]

And that's right, that was the whole point of mod points... So people could just take a look at the useful comments, but when worthless spam like dedazo's gets +5 informative it is just wasting our time...

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

STFU kthxbye

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[fyrewulff]

Who freaking cares who's behind the account? Let people judge the post content itself, not the fucking name above it! This shit is pathetic and downright creepy with the tracking of sockpuppets..

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[king-hobo]

if only i had mod points...

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[jfmonte]

you forgot the "sharks with lasers" one...

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you just stop bitching about twitter, bitching about moderation and bitching about everything and shut the fuck up? You're pounding up a bigger shitstorm than twitter and the OP did to begin with. Just shut the fuck up. It's not that hard, just shut the fuck up. It's easier than bitching.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey communist open-sores/twitter loving fucktard, GO SLIT YOUR FUCKING WRISTS!

-dedazo (737510)

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[dedazo]

Haha, no, but he does have a name troll for me. Does that count?

If you behave, maybe he'll create one for you as well.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[dedazo]

Why don't you put me on your list of foes and adjust your viewing preferences so you won't have to put up with my annoying posts.

If you want to do the same with trollboy here, you'll just have to repeat the operation fourteen times. But I'm sure in the long run that's healthier getting modded down for whining about things other people say.

Re:Silverblight and Mono.

[Nazlfrag]

He's been nametrolled, so I think he has every right to be wound up by and point out twitters shenanigans.

Get your priorities straight

[qoncept]

"I think it's time for Google to embrace OpenOffice.org to take on Microsoft head-on, as CW blogger Preston Gralla has argued for and described how to go about it."

That would be a great idea, if your goal is to hurt Microsoft's sales rather than high quality office software. This is a good example of how two faced people can be. The leg the open source community stands on is improving the offerings in specific types of software, yet somehow lose sight of it, thinking that eliminating an option is in everyone's best interest.

Re:Get your priorities straight

[Enderandrew]

Mod parent up, repeatedly.

Re:Get your priorities straight

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG the OSS community is one person! Anytime two supposed OSS advocates want different things, it's OK to say the OSS community is two faced. Because we're all the same person! Wowwee.

Now go die in a fire, kthxbye.

Let me just say

[Anonymous Coward]

Before the bashing continues. That this is great news! On inital inspection Microsoft is doing what the market is asking for. If this changes in the future... well we shall see. But personally based on all of the uphevals that have been occuring I am going to trust Microsoft again and see how this pans out. Like it or not Office is a great office suite and since it moved to the ribbon bar is even better.

BTW No I am not a Microsoft fanboy, I use whatever tool is appropiate and frankly MSWord and Excel are brilliant pieces of software.

Re:Let me just say

[AlgorithMan]

If you think, Microsoft is planning to keep this compatibility forever, you don't know them very well...

might i remember you to the fact, that microsoft released office:mac only for one reason: to stop supporting macs someday to force the users to buy windows?
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/05/2129253

Re:Let me just say

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah that's right...and now all those Mac users are feeling the pain while switching like crazy to Windows since Microsoft followed through and stopped...supporting...oh wait

Re:Let me just say

[Brett Buck]

you wrote:

>BTW No I am not a Microsoft fanboy, I
>use whatever tool is appropiate and
>frankly MSWord and Excel are brilliant
>pieces of software.

    Word is a "brilliant" piece of software? It's a buggy unstable POS.

            Brett

Re:Let me just say

[mattytee]

I am going to trust Microsoft again

Famous last words...

discrimination is built in already

[Odder]

You know this is somehow going to depend on mono and silverlight, M$'s patent encumbered and second rate come ons. M$ never lets anyone do as well as themselves with "their" tech.

Re:discrimination is built in already

[V!NCENT]

Or, they want to keep their Office cash cow for when nobody will switch to Viena just like nobody switched to Vista (except for a few out there).

Iirc, I've read on another Dutch tech website that Office for Web is just a web frontend to the MS Office backend that needs to be installed localy on a PC.

Whatever happens, Windows is going down anyways... Maybe not at this very time, but somewhere in the future when Linux and Apple gain more traction.

Just...

[comm2k]

as Outlook Web Access works in non-IE browsers..?! There is a reason you can select a 'Premium' version with IE and not with FF/Safari etc.

Re:Just...

[businessnerd]

Agreed. When Microsoft says that they support other OS's and browsers, they mean that in the most minimal sense. Outlook Web Access is a great example. In IE, OWA is very dynamic. It automatically refreshes when new mail arrives, you have a preview pane, composing new messages takes place in a new window, and many more things that make using it fairly pleasant. Use it with anything but IE, and you step back in time to the year 1999. It's a static web page that you have to refresh manually to check for new messages. Everything takes place in the same window, so it's really hard to multi-task, and it's really easy to lose the message you're composing. There's really no excuse. My experience with GMail is consistent no matter what browser I use, and its far superior than OWA on IE any day of the week. Even Windows Live mail has a better interface.

It doesn't stop with just OWA, SharePoint is the same way. They say it supports all OS's and Browsers, but theres's big asterisk next to anything non-MS. Sure you can view pages and download content. You may even be able to upload new content. Don't even think about editing pages/content, changing site settings, reorganizing anything, or doing anything else. Once again, there's no excuse.

Slashdot will find something wrong and evil about

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry Microsoft. You can the offer openid. You can provide specs to samba and mono. You can deliver free cross platform software (Office Live).

But you'll never win slashdot's heart. Slashdot permanently hates you. Stop trying. Its a double-standard-irrational-childish-stupid kinda hate, but its double-standard-irrational-childish-stupid hate regardless.

Now, if Google did this same thing, well, they'd be treated like a god. Like when Google offered OpenID and they were applaused -- the day after You guys did it and you were hated on.

Competition := good

[MicklePickle]

This is a classic example of why we should have competition. It only takes a bit of competition thrown in and suddenly our Linux platform is supported. Consumer lock-in is great for business but bad for consumers.
I wonder just how long this platform embracing will last though?

Re:Competition := good

[rugatero]

I wonder just how long this platform embracing will last though?

I believe embracing is the first part of a three-step process. Not sure how the other two will pan out in this regard.

Re:Competition := good

[mjwx]

Consumer lock-in is great for business but bad for consumers.

I think you mean:
Vendor lock-in is great for one business but bad for everyone else (including all other business)

Re:Slashdot will find something wrong and evil abo

[profplump]

While google has the potential to be just as evil, they at least really mean cross-platform. If their past history of cross-platform compatibility can be used as a guide -- OWA for example -- they mean "Designed for IE, will provide some functionality in other browsers so we can call it cross-platform." Recent versions of OWA have actually *reduced* cross-platform compatibility from what was a pretty usable webmail client to something that won't even let you edit Exchange filtering rules unless you're on MSIE.

what the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

what the hell is wrong with MS? oh wait thats kind of a stupid question on slashdot..
but seriously, they killed hotmail so it no longer works with web standard compliant browsers like Opera, and now they're touting "linux compatibility" just because a stupid web based suite of software works with firefox?!

what a pile of crap.. way to be king turd of crap mountain again MS

Please Do This FUNCTIONAL ILLITERATE

[Anonymous Coward]

Please do Sarah Palin.

Thanks in advance.

Kilgore Trout

Re:Please Do This FUNCTIONAL ILLITERATE

[Ash-Fox]

Where is Sarah Connor?

"just work"

[Trojan35]

Google isn't successful because of cross-platform, cross-browser goodness. They're successful because their products "just work". Much like Apple, in a sense.

Can Microsoft do that? Live Search eventually got there, but almost a decade late to the party. Let's see what the office team can do being only a few years late.

Cloud computing.... only if I get my own cloud!!

[morgauo]

Ok,I'm a pretty big geek.

Being able to access my stuff wherever I go has been my goal for a long time. When I was in college (before cheap USB sticks) I used to have a business card CD for my wallet with a java based ssh client (putty wasn't around yet) and a vncviewer executable. This way I could reach my stuff from the lab computers or anywhere else without installing anything. Realizing that wallet CDs suck I moved on to a web based solution. (try finding a wallet they actually fit in and then try to carry it everywhere without breaking it!) I had a javascript ssh client (mindterm) and a javascript vnc client on a webpage hosted from my machine. This worked... ok.... for the time.

My point is I get it... I get what is so convenient about cloud computing. but... is it really a good idea for allowing the placing of ones documents on someone else's machine (Mickeysoft, Google, etc...) become so commonplace? I realize 90% of what most people's data is going to be uninteresting and not worth getting concerned about. But... if what happens to the 10% of data that truly is sensative when erveryone's in the mindset of just use Google or just use Microsoft? IT guys/gals, do you really think the business suites in your company are going to even understand the differenct between working on a document hosted at some other company vs. running an office suite localy? Most will only know that this is what is easy, this is what they know, this is what their peers are using... For that matter, even people who do understand the difference, once they have been using the cloud for the unimportant data, are they even going to think about it or will it be second nature?

So... inaviteable as cloud computing seems to be, maybe it's time for an OSS web based Office Suite. Something that a company can install on it's own ssl encrypted web server, something that more adventurous home users can install in their own homes and use along with dynamic dns.

Now somebody else go write it :-)

Yeah right

[und0]

The last time they said the same thing for DirectX...

Re:Yeah right

[Enderandrew]

When did they ever say that DirectX would work on Mac and Linux?

As for Silverlight, they've already paid to help Mono developers make Moonlight and said they'd offer free support to web developers trying to get Moonlight/Linux to work with their web site.

ono..i can see the blue screen from here

[idanity]

will this make it esier, or a gigantic nightmare, and now that windows is incorperating linux, i am afraid of their..."rights" on any program i may want to run...(ono, my poor device is going to loose 99 % of its memory)

It's official: Internet Explorer != The Internet

[z0ink]

How is this even newsworthy? So ... Microsoft gets extra credit for doing what _should_ be done with web applications? Is it that or are we all just impressed it's not Silverlight w/ DRM and a paperclip that wants to spy on you and send all your personal details back to Redmond.

let's see it first

[Tom]

Before anyone tells Google that the sky is falling, let's see MS new vaporware in a real-life test first, shall we?

It wouldn't be the first time that they promise revolution, and deliver either nothing at all or a weak me-too product. So let's wait what it's really like. Complex applications are difficult to move to the web, and a "light" version often lacks the exact features that a good fraction of the users care about.

Won't get fooled again

[starfishsystems]

Pardon me for injecting a note of caution.

See, I seem to vaguely recall a few hundred previous occasions in which Microsoft played this same game. It's amazing to me that anyone would still fall for it.

Re:Won't get fooled again

[blueZ3]

Right.

First they embraced the Web browser, and I didn't say anything, because it didn't affect me

Then they extended the web browser with ActiveX, and I didn't say anything, because it didn't affect me

Once they got to the extinguish phase, there was no one left to complain

Re:Cloud computing.... only if I get my own cloud!

[jmyers]

Cloud computing is fine for the typical Joe 6 pack user. The fact is most people are not competent enough to maintain their own internet connected computer and keep it secure.

Having your documents stored on a computer that is not secure is just as bad or worse that letting Google or MS store your documents. Power users and businesses can and will handle their own document storage.

The title confused me..what 'do'?

[microbee]

Is it the same do as in "I'm doing your daughter"?

Re:The title confused me..what 'do'?

[hAckz0r]

Actually I think they just left out a word in that title that is more or less implied with any typical Microsoft double speak. Try reading it like this and it may just sound a little more familiar to your ears, coming from Microsoft and all that:

Microsoft's Office Web Will Do [in] iPhone, Linux, Mac...

Of course, we've all heard that line before...

Personally I'll believe Microsoft will be fair to other web browsers when I see it. My wife is pissed at Microsoft because of all the headaches she has had recently using Firefox 3.0 with msn hotmail. Not only does it require her to reload the page each time she logs in, just to get past the "please upgrade your browser to IE 7", but now I've had to resort to installing a Firefox plug-in that simply lies to their Web server to say it is running IE 7, just to make it usable again. If my browser tells the truth the web page it receives is broken, and if it lies and says its IE 7 it simply works. Ok M$, Why would I be so masochistic as to try and edit an important document when we can't even edit a simple text email on your site? Just because M$ is trying trying so hard to be difficult with what would otherwise be a very simple task, she is finally convinced. She created herself a Gmail account yesterday and is currently migrating everything off of hotmail.

Frdist 5top

[Anonymous Coward]

gone Rjomeo and the longest or

who cares?

[Sadsfae]

Minus some features of sharepoint, openoffice.org already offers a better experience for the average user for free than that of MS Office.

Why this article is bullcrap

[Vexorian]

I RTFA! The whole conclusion comes from saying that it will work in Safari and Firefox... News flash! Even since this thing was announced, we knew MS will use silverlight for this... So, yes, it will run in Safari and Firefox, just through using a plugin, but you'll need .net for this moronity... In other words, that it works in Firefox means nothing, ah and we get to see silverlight in work as a replacement for what IE was meant for initially, to make windows a requirement to browse the web.

Moonlight? yeah right... Assuming MS doesn't add Silverlight-only stuff as a requirement for their online office stuff, they will eventually do once it is famous enough. Thanks Miguel...

Google apps run in anything that can run javascript, does not require you to install .net or violate MS' patents and I am quite sure it will be more feature-complete and better implemented, this web stuff is definitely not MS' strength, they are still on that ridiculous windows-only obsession...

Re:Why this article is bullcrap

[basicio]

You will not need to install Silverlight to use it:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/11/12/office-web-to-be-multi-platform-silverlight-not-required

Re:Why this article is bullcrap

[ThePeeWeeMan]

I always say, don't let those inconvenient facts get in the way of (deserved or otherwise) MS bashing and quick and easy moderation to +3, Insightful or higher. But then that's just me :)

Re:Why this article is bullcrap

[shutdown -p now]

we get to see silverlight in work as a replacement for what IE was meant for initially, to make windows a requirement to browse the web.

Microsoft is tricky like that - making Windows a requirement by providing a Mac OS X version of Silverlight from day one...

Even since this thing was announced, we knew MS will use silverlight for this...

No, you don't know that since announcement, because in that announcement Microsoft has explicitly stated that Silverlight won't be required to run MS Office Web Apps . You're just trolling.

Re:Why this article is bullcrap

[ssstraub]

But will this experience be the same as it is for OWA? You don't need IE to use it, but if you use anything else you get a far inferior version to work with that drops half the features.

Re:Why this article is bullcrap

[Anonymous Coward]

No .net or silverlight required for full functionality. If anything Silverlight CAN be used to offer smoother/better graphics performance (ie. animation/scaling). So yeah, you can use your BeOS as long as your browser supports CSS/Javascript/Async Xml.

Re:That sounds a little snobby...

[colinnwn]

If a PHB implemented a mission critical app in Access poorly, I understand your wrath.

But frequently a project or analysis needs more capabilities than Excel provides, and the project isn't yet seen as business critical, and the timeliness or expense of getting IT on it is prohibitive. Access shines in these instances where a non-IT person can do some rather sophisticated data acquisition and analysis.

If years later you get called in to detangle an Access database that through feature-and-scope-creep has turned into an important business tool that needs a higher level of reliability, take it as a triumph of the common man and modern software, and as your responsibility and privilege to elevate this application to the next level.

They won't change

[Anonymous Coward]

They block Linux from Hotmail - they'll block Linux from this too - but only after you get involved enough to like it - then they'll announce you have to use IE6 or Windows 7 or something that will bring them back into force.

I don't plan to use it. Zoho.com has it all already and it is a complete system including mail and presentations.

Re:Slashdot will find something wrong and evil abo

[David Gerard]

As Microsoft continues to prepare for the 2009 2010 launch of Windows 7, it today issued a plea through its network of objective opinion-shapers: Don't let the journalists near it.

"We understand that many journalists use Macs," said CNet marketing marketer Don Reisinger. "This means they necessarily suckle at the Satanic rear passage of Steve Jobs. We cannot countenance their bias. Journalists are responsible for all those signs outside computer shops offering to replace Vista with XP. When was the last time you saw the entire technology field stop and wait for an announcement from any other company besides Apple? It's so unfair!"

Smears and slanders also come from obsessive overweight nerdy Mac-using Linux geek troublemakers who run "benchmarks" and "tests." "It's horrifying bias from the 'reality'-based community," said ZDNet marketing marketer Mary Jo Enderle. "We understand that, just because Vista was 40% slower than XP and Windows 7 is the same speed as Vista, the nattering nabobs of negativism are already writing press releases condemning it as 'not enough of an improvement.' It's so unfair!"

"Mactards are like concentration camp guards," said Guardian marketing marketer Jack Schofield, "brutalising 'I'm A PC' users and" [This comment has been removed by a Guardian moderator. Replies may also be deleted.]

"The only reason Vista failed was because Microsoft planned for it to fail," said Reisinger in an earlier ad-banner troll post. "It was a fantastically subtle double-bluff! They did the honorable thing in the face of the vile calumnies spread by Apple. It's so unfair!"

Microsoft will be debuting Windows 7 on a new 17" Asus Eee Ultra-Portable Mini-Netbook with 8GB memory and a 2GHz quad-core processor. Battery life is up to twenty minutes in preliminary tests.

So it seems..

[slummy]

People really do read the comments.

Re:Slashdot will find something wrong and evil abo

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh you mean like their cross-platform browser?

Please stop

[Anonymous Coward]

Your blog is not funny, and your constant self-referential posts are nothing more than spam.

Funny how anyone adding a link to Wikipedia under your watch (relevant or not) was banned and insulted as a "spammer", and here you are doing exactly the same thing to another website. Where I come from we call this hypocrisy.

Hotmail

[markdavis]

> The key to this cross platform-friendliness: Office Web will run in Firefox and Safari browsers, in addition to IE

Yeah right. We have heard THAT before, haven't we? This is coming from the same company that forced Hotmail users to use the new "Live" version, which complains about Firefox every time you access it and doesn't allow Linux users to even send or reply to messages until they change the vendor ident string!!!! And they claimed THAT was supposed to work. Even yesterday it is still broken, I had to change the ident vendor string using about:config from "Mandriva" to "Firefox" to access it.

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/21/1838229&from=rss

I feel "isatrap" coming... Why would ANYONE want to run MS-Office online??? *ESPECIALLY* people running Linux or MacOS?

You're confused.

[GNUChop]

Adobe's sins complement those of M$, not wash them away. You can run Gnash 64 bit today, but the real action is in video and HTML 5 has support for theora. Between that and SVG support, the old Flash pdf game is over. Why jump to non free shit like Silverblight when you can move to freedom with the rest of the world?

As for non free platform "cooperation", ask a Mac user how much good M$'s efforts to vend Office and IE to them did. Non free stuff isn't made to make money in a fair way, it's made to extort money by jerking around customers. M$ is playing the same old game they always have but their revenue model long gone. You are not just defending immoral behavior, you are defending immoral behavior that no longer pays.

I'm sure twitter would answer for himself but can't. It's not easy to answer questions when you can only post once or twice a day.

Re:You're confused.

[Anonymous Coward]

> I'm sure twitter would answer for himself but can't.

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/16/irc-log-15082008-2/#tAug%2015%2023:24:46
They got my GNUChop today and replied to it by cut and pasting a brlug comment.

<twitter> I'm back.
<twitter> Want to see a nice piece of net stalking?
<schestowitz> Yes, definitely. I want o document such phenomena too.
<twitter> This one is personal and not one I'd like to call attention to.
<twitter> my trolls on Slashdot like to out me as BRLUG member Will Hill. That's not something I will confirm or deny.
<twitter> They also identify my accounts on the first few posts. They got my GNUChop today and replied to it by cut and pasting a brlug comment.
<twitter> compare http://mail.brlug.net/pipermail/general_brlug.net/2008-August/018582.html
<twitter> to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=647417&cid=24621437
<twitter> Nasty, isn't it?

Re:You're confused.

[GNUChop]

Nasty, isn't it?

Twitter troll, mod down

[Anonymous Coward]

n/t

Will Office Web support VBA macros?

[GPS Pilot]

This would provide some relief to Mac users who lost the ability to run VBA macros in Office 2008.

Last post!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay for me! I got last post, suckers!

Silverlight? On iPhone? Don't make me laugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people have mentionned that it's going to require Silverlight for Office Web. Couldn't find any mention of it on computerworld though.

Anyway, you won't see Flash, Silverlight or Java on the iPhone. Apple's pushing HTML5 and Safari.

Heck, Opera can't even release Opera for iPhone, so imagine Microsoft asking to add Silverlight to Safari on the iPhone.

Lies, all lies

[Jekler]

Anything Microsoft creates will not work with iPhone/Mac/Linux/etc. They will always sabotage the other systems whenever possible. Even if it works on release, an update will break it. Listening to anything Microsoft says is like believing an abusive spouse won't hit you again.

Re:Lies, all lies

[Anne Thwacks]

You mean MS Office is Never going to run on OpenBSD/Sparc64 kit? I'm deeply shocked. I put my whole organisations future on hold because of MS's promise.

Should I really go back to OpenOffice, and being able to edit tables reliably? Or should I move to Visagra/MS Office 2007, and a life of viruses and screen candy? Help me! I just can't decide for myself!

Re:Lies, all lies

[bedfojo]

Yes, complete lies. After all Microsoft have deliberately broken hotmail under linux. Works with FF under Windows but hey check the user agent for the OS. See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/279802

Re:Lies, all lies

[shutdown -p now]

Ah, Slashdot - where an openly trolling rant with no references is "+5, Insightful", so long as it's about Microsoft (but God have mercy on you if you try to pull the same trick in a story on Apple or Google).

Re:Lies, all lies

[Jekler]

Apple and Google were never found guilty of anti-trust violations, Microsoft was. Microsoft's business practices are public knowledge, there are literally scores of internal memos and emails floating around the internet from Microsoft executives talking about their plans to sabotage competing platforms in one technology or another.

Nobody can pull the same "trick" on Google or Apple because, to our knowledge, they have been open and honest in their business practices. Microsoft's disreputable tactics are a matter of public record. I'm sorry if you can't see the distinction.

How about the famed "Halloween" documents, how's that for your reference? In them, Microsoft routinely refers to open platforms as an enemy combatant and talks about how Microsoft can pretend to open certain platforms to give the appearance of being favorable. (Essentially admitting that Microsoft Share is a tactic to open as little as possible, mostly legacy technologies, to appear like they intend to collaborate with open standards). That's where people get the mantra "embrace, extend, extinguish".

I'm not even sure why I'm replying to someone who is apparently unaware of Microsoft's tactics of subterfuge and deception. Search the web, it's all there for everyone to see.

What's nastier?

[Anonymous Coward]

People who out and document your sockpuppets, or your shilling?

Mod parent up! This needs to be said!

[bornagainpenguin]

I use Linux on most of my computers at this point and when my Mom comes over and wants to check her email this silly bit of FUD always gets her until I point to the screen where the link is to continue on any way...

You'd think after the whole Opera vs Oprah fiasco Microsoft would have learned better...

More information on these previous games here:

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/02/06/1645229.shtml?tid=109
http://people.opera.com/howcome/2003/2/msn/

Why anyone would trust any thing Microsoft does after repeatedly pulling this crap in their corporate history is beyond me!

--bornagainpenguin

What's nastier? The troll zoo.

[Anonymous Coward]

Want to talk about outing trolls?

Re:What's nastier? The troll zoo.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you locate more of teh trolls, please email me at hillnotes@hotmail.com

Re:Slashdot will find something wrong and evil abo

[prozaker]

is bad enough its something copy pasted, but cnet? eww

Sending details to Redmond?

[Teferison]

a paperclip that wants to spy on you and send all your personal details back to Redmond.

That's the beauty of cloud computing, your personal details won't have to be send back to Redmond, they will be stored there from the very beginning.

Yeah, right. Enjoy destroying your Exchange prefs

[MerryGoByeBye]

In yet another breathtaking installment of Krang's Happy BS Hour, Frankestein and co. seek to convince a weary world that they will make their lives easier. Except, of course, they have to contend with their greatest and most fiendishly unbeatable arch-enemy, their own track record.

I've now had to delete my Exchange profile in Entourage and rebuild the MS database a dozen times. In the interim, I've "sent" updates to meetings that were never touched, lost meetings I haven't even so much as hovered over since accepted and had enough formatting errors in Word:Mac show up in the MS Word version to literally crash both apps, even after performing "compatibility checks" each time. This rapidly becomes very, very uncool when, say, meeting with a CTO.

As happy as the idea of a cross-platform (especially to iPhone) MS Office install would make me, all I can say is: "Don't you believe it." Whether through spite, confused market strategy or sheer, blinding ignorance, Microsoft has for decades utterly failed to even be compatible with itself. I will believe it when I see it - on someone else's hardware.

Talk is cheap. Ballmer is Krang. Krang smash.

heads in the clouds

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont get this cloud thing. Why would any company risk the security of internal information by using hosted applications. Its crazy.

I can understand uses for students, casual use etc but no way would I trust my internal business information this way. No way.

Re:Slashdot will find something wrong and evil abo

[shutdown -p now]

This time it's a bit different. They aren't tying the "advanced features" into IE - rather, they are relying on Silverlight, which at least is cross-browser and cross-platform (and the specs are open so it can be reimplemented if needed - see Moonlight etc).

So it's still not "100% W3C compliant HTML", but it's better then it was. And then again - how long did it take Google to make GMail work in Opera? And their front (search) page still lacks a DOCTYPE declaration, so it's not even valid HTML... Google also has Gears, and some of its web apps "run better" when you have it. This is really no different (which isn't to say that this approach isn't inherently bad, whether MS or Google does it).

Re:That sounds a little snobby...

[Gazzonyx]

Unless it's Access 2000, in which case, you can't elevate it because there is no upgrade path to .NET. Or if it uses DAO which has (almost?) the same arguments as ADO/ADO.NET, but in a different order. This would leave you with the binary decision to either, wrap the VB6 code in .NET wrappers using legacy COM and recreating every form, report and reference to the now deprecated 'null' or to simply rebuild from scratch. Sorry, I had to vent about an, internal, 250,000 SLOC, Access app I inherited.

Re:That sounds a little snobby...

[Bonobo_Unknown]

suck the data out, rebuild from scratch...

Why Hypersonic DBMS??

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does OOBase not use SQLite? Removes the need for Java, very fast, and miles better than the MS "Jet" engine.

I bet you I can write an Access killer in Python + SQLite

Come think about it, yea... I'll just do that.

Re:That sounds a little snobby...

[Draek]

If years later you get called in to detangle an Access database that through feature-and-scope-creep has turned into an important business tool that needs a higher level of reliability, take it as a triumph of the common man and modern software, and as your responsibility and privilege to elevate this application to the next level.

Yeah. And when you get called to untangle the horrid mess that an intern left in the code of a business-critical app, take it as a triumph of the common man and modern education, and as your responsability and priviledge of showing young apprentices your experience.

Or you could just shoot the fucker who did it in the first place, and preserve your sanity. Applies for both cases just as well.