Slashdot Mirror
Entertainment Software Association Following RIAA?
cavis writes "My organization just received an e-mail from the Intellectual Property enforcement division of the Entertainment Software Association. It accuses one particular IP address with 'infringing the copyright rights of one or more ESA members by copying and distributing unauthorized copies of game products (through peer-to-peer or similar software/services).' It goes on to name the filename and the application: Limewire. Has anyone had any contact with this group? Are they following the RIAA's lead and pursuing litigation for peer-to-peer piracy? I'm just trying to evaluate what I am in for as I try to battle P2P within my network."
Read on for more details.
The letter reads in part (with my redactions):
The Entertainment Software Association ("ESA") is a US trade association that represents the intellectual property interests of numerous companies that publish interactive games for video game consoles, personal computers, handheld devices and the Internet(hereinafter collectively referred to as "ESA members"). ESA is authorized to act on behalf of ESA members whose copyright and other intellectual property rights it believes to be infringed as described herein.
Based on the information at its disposal on 24 Nov 2008 01:09:08 GMT, ESA has a good faith belief that the subscriber using the IP address [IP address] infringing the copyright rights of one or more ESA members by copying and distributing unauthorized copies of game products (through peer-to-peer or similar software/services), in violation of applicable copyright laws, through internet access that [agency name] provides directly to the [IP address] or through a downstream provider that purchases this access for [IP address].
The Entertainment Software Association ("ESA") is a US trade association that represents the intellectual property interests of numerous companies that publish interactive games for video game consoles, personal computers, handheld devices and the Internet(hereinafter collectively referred to as "ESA members"). ESA is authorized to act on behalf of ESA members whose copyright and other intellectual property rights it believes to be infringed as described herein.
Based on the information at its disposal on 24 Nov 2008 01:09:08 GMT, ESA has a good faith belief that the subscriber using the IP address [IP address] infringing the copyright rights of one or more ESA members by copying and distributing unauthorized copies of game products (through peer-to-peer or similar software/services), in violation of applicable copyright laws, through internet access that [agency name] provides directly to the [IP address] or through a downstream provider that purchases this access for [IP address].
Well, at least they're speedy!
Slashdot is fine too; asking can't hurt, but don't neglect your lawyer.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
another monolythic lawsuit engine, equipping lawyers to infringement suits... wait... there could be a game idea in this concept PLEASE DON'T SUUUE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
"Read More"?
Make sure this gets mainstream press coverage. Be sure to sensationalize it and compare it to the RIAA. Watch them back down quickly.
Nope, just missing. Perhaps you should click read more yourself.
My Babylon
Maybe they are finally getting around to busting you for making copies of Leisure Suit Larry and giving them to your friends.
No, I mean that that is the link. From the initial summary:
Click the link below to read part of their letter.
Sure enough, clicking on the link gives you part of the letter.
the riaa's extortion model is under legal attack
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"Great. And what do you expect me to do about it?"
You are not liable for anything your users do on the network. If you are operating a service like youtube, you'd have a DMCA takedown request. Taking down the allegedly infringing content puts you in the clear. End of story. If you aren't, then you really don't have to comply with anything they say. The RIAA doesn't sue ISPs for damages. They sue the person doing the infringing.
A court proceeding would be limited to requiring you to divulge who owned the equipment associated with that IP address. That's about it. Neither you nor your organization have anything to worry about.
It's effectively an Ask Slashdot. No link required.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Are they merely asking for the infringement to stop, are they threatening to take you court and asking for an out-of-court settlement, are they asking for the identity of the person with the IP address?
If it's the first option then it's easy, find the person who might be infringing and deal with it. Perhaps even block the Limewire service on your network. Setup guidelines for accepted computer usage within your organization. Then ignore the letter unless it demands some form of communication back to them, or threatens legal action if something isn't done about it. If it does ask for a response or you get a second letter, then refer to legal advice on how to deal with it.
The other two scenarios may require legal opinions and official responses.
http://www.theesa.com/
big bold link on the bottom right that says
Anti-Piracy Information
with a link to:
http://www.theesa.com/policy/antipiracy.asp
next time google it!
Well, it's an interesting letter, but there are some questions I'd want the answers to before moving forward in any capacity:
1. What copyrights exactly are they claiming have been infringed?
2. Who are they saying has infringed them?
3. What exactly do they want you to do about it?
I'd also repeat what has been mentioned here by more than one person - consult a lawyer about this, and find out what your liability is, and the best way to proceed. One thing you have to consider is that they could have come across something that is indeed a copyright infringement, and in a case like that, it is better to work with them than against them.
It is also quite possible that they got caught by a rotating IP address, and while there may have been something questionable going on at that IP address, that IP address now belongs to somebody completely different. In that case, you want your lawyer to write them a polite but firm letter explaining all of this, and that should, in theory, make them go away.
The only way you're going to figure out what to do, though, is get answers to those questions.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
Assuming the poster works for the government of the state of West Virginia (chris.l.avis@wv.gov is what his username link translates to) I'd suggest the first thing to do is to talk to whoever was using that IP address and suggest they stop using file sharing on the government network.
That e-mail sounds pretty friendly all things considered. No threat of a lawsuit or anything similar, just letting you know that one of your users may have violated the copyright of a work under their protection.
What do you mean, your "organization"? Is this letter directed at an ISP or are you the network admin for a company? Have you checked the machine with the corresponding IP to see if Limewire is installed?
I stole this sig from a more creative user.
Get a lawyer.
There may be many people in the /. crowd who, rightly or wrongly think any system where lawyers are needed is bad. That's besides the point. You need legal advice. Lawyers provide legal advice.
Get a lawyer.
It's all well and good to ask for input from /. and Groklaw etc., but get competent, professional, legal advice and trust it over what anyone says here. Nobody here is a lawyer. (And if they are, then they're not being contracted by you to get legal advice, and so are not liable; moreover, they don't have the full details of the letter you got.
An example: Someone said 'take it to the press.' Ask a lawyer before you do that. There are all sorts of procedural reasons why doing that could make a court rule against you. What sort of reasons? IANAL.
So before anything else, get a lawyer to sit down with you and go over the letter, have them research and follow up on the letter, and see what your legal obligations are. Is the ESA asking for a name to go with that IP address? Is this a C&D letter of some kind? Are they threatening your company with legal action? Heck, for that matter, does this organization actually exist? (Someone could be pulling an elaborate joe job. Unlikely, but possible.)
In short, get a lawyer.
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
Either an ESA member is claiming copyright on the IP address itself... or there's an "is" missing. Is it the ESA's omission or dropped in the edit? Submitter?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
They haven't made a request for takedown, haven't cited the applicable laws for the aforementioned, and do not mention the specific instance of the infraction. What you've got here is a bullshit takedown notice. It's a scare tactic. Send back to your ISP that it is not a valid DMCA notification and no action is necessary. Also, it takes more than an IP address to prove infringement -- they also have to prove it was you, on a computer that was using that IP address, at that time. Short of a forensic search of the computer in question, they have nothing.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
If their mailing address is in Nigeria, I'd settle immediately. There could be big $$$ in it for you.
Better stop seeding those warez, mate!
Yes, we've been contacted by them (I work for a large university). We got a DMCA takedown notice. However no they aren't acting like the RIAA, they seem to be working like the MPAA. That is to say they send a notice saying "Please remover this shit and yell at the user." We say "Ok we did," and that's the last we ever hear from them. They don't seem to be suing people, they just seem to be trying to get the ISPs to take down the content.
Some university managed to have such letter sent to a printer, so it wouldn't be the first time. Also the pirate bay, is actively introducing forged IPs in torrent swarms to pollute the logger's listings. Of course ask for a copy of the concerned files. and, the must, for the source code use to incriminate the IP.
This is a (probably automated) DMCA notification message asking you to make the user downloading copywritten content stop. These messages usually come with an attached XML snippet (per http://mpto.unistudios.com/xml/Infringement_schema.xsd) so that you can make all this automatic if you like. If you actually make the user stop, it's very unlikely anything more will happen.
I work for a moderately sized mom-and-pop ISP, and we see several of these messages (from various sources, but usually the ESA and individual movie studios) every week (most frequently, it seems, referring to torrents on The Pirate Bay.) We deal with the customers appropriately and everyone goes about his business.
Are these kinds of investigations really inherently bad in and of themselves or is it just the way the RIAA has handled the court procedings after the fact?
Personally, I think that if you can sanely, rationaly, and beyond a reasonable doubt prove that someone has violated the copyright, you have the right to make them stop and seek some amount of damages. The problem with the RIAA is that they almost never prove beyond any kind of doubt, they violate laws in their investigations, and they seek damages many times what the actual damages are.
Seriously, thousands of people make their living producing the games that I love to play. I see no problem in them charging me to play them and no problem in them punishing people who try get out of paying. You can argue that they are too expensive, or that there are no good demos available, and even that priracy doesn't really affect sales. But that doesn't really change the facts. Yes, people will take what they can without paying but companies should have the right to deter them from doing so.
I got one of those passed on to me via my ISP once. Turns out I'd picked up a virus and someone had installed filesharing onto one of my PCs. Thanked the ISP, cleaned up the machine, never heard another thing about it.
So clean up your network, thank them for letting you know, and I'd assume as long as it doesn't happen again, you're okay.
As an ISP, we get a ton of these.
To keep our safe harbor protection, we do what we have to to stop the infringement, just like with the RIAA/MPAA requests. Not doing so would expose us to liability.
They don't ask for identities, and we wouldn't give them anyway without a court order, just like with the RIAA/MPAA. Doing so would expose us to liability.
Unlike the RIAA/MPAA however, we have never had any contact with the ESA escalate to the level of court orders.
Reply with a letter stating "That IP address is a Dynamic DHCP address handed out by an open Wireless Access Point, so I have no idea who was using it at the time. However, we are now putting in place measures to limit access." Then, if you can actually track down the IP to a specific user, beat them about the head and shoulders with a stout cluestick while repeating the mantra "Inappropriate or unauthorized use of the network will be result in severe consequences up to and including termination." Sounds like they're being reasonable here, which means if you can convince them that you are policing yourself, they won't feel the need to come barging in with lawyers to do your policing for you.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
As i got one of these takedown notices sent to my home isp last weekend.. for apparently downloading and sharing a torrent of a game that i actually own in hardcopy.
While my ISP did what they needed to do to indemnify themselves, and then gave me my access back (the process felt automated and took about 5 minutes), i was pretty pissed off that someone could just assert that my ip was associated with a torrent and have my access removed like that.. Don't get me wrong, i'd still be annoyed if i was actually doing it and they removed my access, but the fact that i hadn't actually shared the torrent in question made consider switching isp on the spot, even though i know it's not really their fault.
http://www.xkcd.com/354/
I read the title and thought: "@esa is now following @riaa?" ...
I need to get out more.
Seriously, though, the letter does not mention any action to be taken, it's just a notification basically saying "we think you're doing this..." and nothing more.
Is this scare tactics or is it kudos for doing it? Doesn't say.
http://www.letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=the+Esa
Are you sure this is even real and not a scam? I don't know how these businesses operate in the US but here in Germany you wouldn't receive a copyright infringement notice by e-mail.
No: the ESA was doing this twenty years ago, whereas the RIAA has only been at it for a few years. The ESA also only goes after people when they have good, solid proof, and they win most of their cases. The ESA aren't thugs, they're just protecting their members from pirates.
Yo ho ho, and a barrel of you got caught red handed.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Next you'll tell me that they have libraries and schools or something crazy like that ;)
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I was going to buy Fallout 3, but I wanted to see if it would run on my computer. But damn, no PC demo! What ever should I do? Buy the game and risk wasting $50 on a game that won't run? Or download it, verify it runs, delete it, and go buy it?
Usually, I use option #2, but if the ESA are going to be that much of a bitch about this, I just won't bother buying any PC games that don't have demos. Who looses the money there?
Or, since I am considered a criminal and liable to legal action for simply downloading the game, playing it for 10 minutes to make sure it will run, deleting it, then LEGALLY buying the game at a store, why don't I just download all my games and NOT legally buy them? Then the game companies STILL loose money.
They think these shitty scare tactics will work, but I, for one, am not an idiot.
I wonder if a program like PerrGuardian would work for an overall network to block the attempts of the ESA and RIAA to sniff these people out in the first place.
I think this guy just wants to know about the ESA and its modus operandi; not what they have to do legally. Obviously, you need a lawyer for that.
That said, I haven't heard of them suing people en masse, though the ESA has been sending takedown notices for a long time now. I seem to recall that you can see a bit of their work on the Pirate Bay's legal complaints page, for example.
Another poster mentions something about removing the files and then hitting the user with a cluestick and having them go away. That pretty much sums up the rumors I've heard on the Internet, but I haven't dealt with them personally. Because it's Limewire, you just have to figure out who has that installed and make them stop (you might be able to block ports, but I have to believe that people would get around that). But you don't necessarily have to offer them up to the ESA as a sacrifice unless they start making legal demands. Obviously, you should be looking for a lawyer whenever they mention any demands.
It might be even safer not to contact them at all, but merely to cut off Limewire access at the source (i.e. the user). They do send a lot of DMCA notices and whatnot. Even if it's not a proper DMCA notice (or intended to be one), sending a letter documenting the infringement is standard practice for copyright disputes. But they send a lot, so you may never hear back so long as you cut off the user.
Just be careful. If you start getting phone calls, follow-ups, or something more personal than a form letter you need to contact the company lawyer (and you might want to, anyhow). None of this should be considered legal advice. The best I have are second-hand rumors about other people's experiences with the ESA which I got from news sites like TorrentFreak.
Good luck.
- I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property
Its how large conglomerates operate today. Accuse your customers of theft, get draconian anti freedom laws passed and profit off the fines and governmental subsides ( 'media tax' )
And here is a new flash: WE ALLOW IT.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
To make sure that it wasn't one of your printers [PDF warning].
Sig this!
Maybe my perceptions on this are skewed, but it seems to me that a few years ago, most games had downloadable demos to try. I've been noticing in the last 2 or 3 years that more and more games are being released with no demos.
Personally, I've decided to, generally, not buy any games without demos. The only exception I make is when I have a friend who has the game in question, where I can use his/her copy of the game to try it on my PC first (I did that with Mass Effect, and did go buy ME once I'd verified it worked on my PC and that I generally liked it).
But, I'm with the parent - game companies really are costing themselves opportunities by not releasing demos, because as a buyer of video games, I just can't *afford* to buy a game without trying a demo first. I don't have money to waste on titles that won't work for me or which I don't find sufficiently entertaining, and because of the very *wide* range of hardware in PC systems, there is a very real risk the game *won't* run (or at least won't run right) on my computer.
Hold on I'll grab you a tall one.
Yes
Someone is still using limewire???
zosxavius photography
"but I've always thought"
Apparently not a great skill on your part. Get some good advice before you cost your company many thousands of dollars. You're way offbase with this.
http://www.seebs.net/log/archives/000195.html
They sent me a nasty note because a mirror of the Interactive Fiction archive contained a file named "doom3.zip". (It was a many-year old text adventure hosted with the permission of the author.) They felt it was most likely a "retail copy of Doom 3".
According to them:
1. They review every message they send carefully.
2. They send hundreds of thousands of messages a month.
That latter estimate is from 2004 -- I can't imagine it's gone down.
I have no idea what they'd do in the unlikely event that their complaint wasn't stupid on its face; in my case, they backed down while telling me how important the work they do is. I consider them subhuman scum who are working actively to completely destroy the PC gaming industry as best they can. Given a choice between their crazy harassment and unauthorized use of my network, and Brad Wardell's high-quality software with no copy protection and good attitude, I think I can safely say I speak for anyone who has ever worked with, for, or on a video game, or who has ever played a video game and might want to again some day, when I say that I sincerely hope the ESA completely ceases to exist and is not replaced. I think they do a great deal of harm and waste a lot of money that could have been put into something with some kind of benefit.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Ask them for more data. Say you're willing to help track down the offender but need more information to do so such as logs of how much data was transferred from their honeypot and between what times to help you search logs. Ask for a full list of filenames that were being shared, the username they were connected with, the ports they were communicating via etc. etc.
Put the ball in their court, put the burden on them to demonstrate that such an event occured. Call their bluff by offering to be helpful but requesting more information.
Some have pointed out here that companies are responsible for what users do on their network, but the flip side of it is companies can also stand up to legal bullying better than individuals and thus far the cases put forward by the RIAA etc. aren't holding up well in court. The ESA will have to have a pretty strong case to stand any chance in court and if they can't/wont provide the above information they wont win in court either.
An IP address and a time is not suitable evidence of copyright infringement. If they don't have any more evidence then they don't have a case, if they can provide it then you simply need to comply. Using a company network for P2P is stupid anyway so whilst I'd love to see the ESA lose for these kind of tactics, if they have taken the effort to get suitable evidence and if a user really is using P2P at work then I'm a little more sympathetic to them. Don't be like the RIAA yourself however and assume guilt on behalf of your users based on worthless evidence- get more from them.
Limewire seems to be what everybody gets caught on. What are the chances of being caught on BitTorrent with peer guardian?
Do you have a fixed IP or an assigned IP by your ISP?
If you have a fixed IP, Get a Lawyer. A file name doesn't constitute a copyright violation. The content of the said file MAY.
Also, remember that some bit torrent clients smear ALL packets with random IPs and file names.
And if you have an assigned IP, they have to prove that your company had that IP at that time.
And yes, you can preventive restrain your ISP from disclosure without a proper court order.
Also, depending on your country/state/earth geo location, the existing laws may protect more the privacy then the copyright infringement.
It all depends... and...
IANAL... and get a laywer... ;)
It appears to be a standard issue DMCA notice. Check with a Lawyer, and if so, you are actually required to enforce it, if it is valid and covers all the requirements in a stand issue DMCA notice.
I have worked in the security/abuse field for years and have seen thousands of these. People who have never seen one typically freak out and/or don't have a clue when receiving one.
Since the trade association hold no IP, it is just a springboard for their lawsharks (who are NOT lawyers, they EMPLOY lawyers). They have no moral or legal right to claim infringement - leave that to the *copyright holder*. If they write again, send both letter to /your/ lawyer and put in a claim for harassment.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
What's the big deal here? This is a standard DMCA Takedown Notice. We get dozens of them a month at my ISP. It's very standard and the proper and legal way for a copyright owner to inform a service provider that a copyright violation has occurred. The service provider is required to take specific actions to maintain their Safe Harbor status. There is nothing unusual about receiving one of these form letters. I've received them from the ESA as well. Not a big deal.
Happened to me. Yes, both the MPAA and the ESA are following hte RIAA's policy.
I got nailed by the ESA for violating the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyrights Act) for allegedly torrenting Halo. They sent a seise and decist letter to my university who then forwarded it to me along with disconnecting my internet until I agreed to some long statement about agreeing to copyright infringement policies.
Then I got nailed by the MPAA over the summer (like last week) for allegedly torrenting agin.
From what I've seen, the ISP will ALWAYS warn you first, so you basically got one free "life" per IP address.
Whether I did or didn't torrent said files is irrelevant, the point is, they're definitely out there.