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Groklaw's PJ Says SCO's Demise Greatly Exaggerated
blackbearnh writes "Last week, the net was all abuzz with speculation that SCO was finally gone and done for. With the final judgment in SCO v. Novell in, and SCO millions of dollars in the hole to Novell, it seemed like the fat lady had finally sung. But like most things in the legal system, it isn't nearly that simple. O'Reilly Media sought out Groklaw's Pamela Jones, and got a rundown of what's still alive, and why a final end to the madness may be many years away. 'Summing up, it looks bleak for SCO at the moment, but let's enter the alternate realm of SCO's best-case scenario in its dreams: in that realm, SCO wins on appeal, which one of SCO's lawyers indicated might take a year and a half or five years, and the case is sent back to Utah for trial by jury, which is what SCO wanted (as opposed to trial by judge, which is what it got), then everything listed above (except for the IPO class action) comes alive again, presumably, depending on what the appellate court decides. Then SCO is in position once again to go after Linux end users, as well as IBM, et al.'"
Make it stop. Please. I beg of you.
In other words, SCO is a zombie. It can't be killed by normal litigation. Argh, kill it with fire! Do it now!
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
WTF is up with the userpage! It was bad I get slapped with the dumbass firehose-with-Idle's-stylesheet, but now I don't even have a tab for my comments.
If I want Firehose, I'll go to to Firehose. (I don't, and wont)
If I want Idle, I'll go to Idle. (I don't, and wont)
If I want my userpage to be a clean, simple and informative interface, I'll click on my username in the upper right. Oh wait, I can't!
If you want to dick around with the userpage, fine. Just give me a checkbox that says "opt out of this crapfest" like you did with the index and comments.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
Everybody pay your $699 license fee so they can afford to appeal.
Since Micro$oft == SCO and Micro$oft == Novell, isn't this farce a tad nonsensical?
I sure hope this SCO doesnt start killing all the other fantasy dimension SCO's and absorbing their power...
http://i.cubeupload.com/T6cyLu.png
Even when it appears to die in the last issue, there's a miraculous and vengeful comback story.
Wait, did you just call PJ a fatso? How does that help?
The second "groklaw" story in 3 hours. What gives? is someone being paid to plant them?.
/.'ers stopped reading groklaw when they saw the type of deleting^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H moderating that goes on over there.
Most
Who cares any more? It was a decent site once, however, when they started just deleting dissenting voices. Nuff said.
If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
I always thought that in America, a jury was a jury of peers, by which I presume they mean peer to the defendant, not to each other. (Now, mind you, that is an opinion formed from many years of watching TV, not on actual legal definitions or documentation of what constitutes a jury.) So, if SCO is getting a jury trial, who or what constitutes the jury? Companies? Submarine patent holders? Victims of hostile takeovers? Who are SCO's peers?
Or do I have the whole concept wrong?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
"Last week, the net was all abuzz with speculation that SCO was finally gone and done for."
s/speculation/hope/
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
If they continue their litigious behavior, perhaps $CO can file bankruptcy again. Either that or go head to head with someone a little more like themselves, the Church of $cientology, which would be terrific entertainment.
Groklaw is a wonderful resource. That said, PJ is trolling here. She she herself has rather authoritatively explained, there is no legal basis for SCO to attack the clear meaning of the original Agreement (contract) with hearsay evidence - especially from second and third hand sources. This is an insurmountable legal obstacle, unless the 10th Court of Appeals wants to make new case law. (From looking at their record, it looks like they don't).
But hell, if we're thinking implausible nightmare scenarios, Barack Obama could have a heart attack right now, Biden and Hillary could split, the Republicans could win on that basis, McCain could have a heart attack in a couple of months, and we could be all saying "President Palin" a year from now.
Hey, could happen. Right?
Honest to God, just when you think it's over...out comes the villian who you thought was
finished comes back wheeling a knife/machette/bazooka/half frozen Codfish.
WTF? Over?
PJ, the arch-censor of Groklaw, desperately needs you to believe this
To believe that it's possible, or to believe that it's probable?
It seems like if she was looking for job security she would be arguing that it's probable. Instead she's arguing that it's possible. And we all know what possible means. I have a lottery ticket in my pocket. It's possible I've won. Sure as hell wouldn't call it probable though.
And FWIW, Groklaw does far more than merely keep an eye on SCO. Just the other day there was a good article about the Bilski ruling over on Groklaw. The Groklaw front page also has items about the cyberbullying case, and Harvard having a youtube channel.
If there's one thing PJ has probably learned from following the SCO story from the beginning is that you don't put all your eggs in a single basket.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
hush your mouth my puppy, if this really were groklaw, you'd have just been deleted.
If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
they are worse than Cylons. They seem to be "killable", but keep replicating. Hell, they don't even improve models. You need to find the Resurrection Ship and put a nuke in its colon.... preferably making it a HUGE swollen colon, that no deep space Ben-Gay nor Preparation H can favorabley re-sequence...
SCO should be SCO^3, which could stand for: "Self-Contained Organism, Secreting Copies Over Secret Channel Outputs"
Or, SCO could be a tag/jingle for: "Semi-Conjugative Ogres: Screwing Companies Over"
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Case's over, Darl. IBM dropped the big one.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
SCO still has to get out of bankruptcy. Unless they find an outside investor, that's hopeless. In this market, they're unlikely to find an outside investor. They'll have trouble getting financing in any form. I expect Chapter 7 liquidation by spring.
Anybody who buys SCO for the litigation rights gets stuck with the potential liability in the IBM lawsuit. That's a big liability, IBM has good lawyers, and IBM was winning when the bankruptcy put that suit on hold. IBM made $11 billion in profits last year on revenue of $105 billion, so they can continue to afford Cravath lawyers.
Let's create a Slug-In (Slash-plug-in) that links our content to Facebook, then create a group called:
"One Million Slashers Against the "NEW" Slashdot Layout", LOL!
Hell, we might even be able to "share"/donate karma, and overrule the SlashLords who engage in or idly stand by while ogres abuse the moderation and scoring system out of retribution and user-burying (in a "don't feed the trolls" mentality)...
But, first, the Slug-In Plug-In. But, i wonder if Facebook could be slashdotted, or if Slashdot could be "faced", hehehe...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I mean, appealing is just about always an option. But is there really any realistic chance of it succeeding and their dream coming true? Are we talking "SCO's hypothetical chances of winning SCO v IBM when all we knew was Darl's BS statements to the press" chances, or "SCO's chances of winning SCO v IBM after the judge demanded all their evidence and all they showed was errno.h" chances? As I understand it, you can't win an appeal on a factual basis, the appeal is instead all about any procedural errors made during the main trial that could be the basis for overturning the result. And as far as I can tell, the judge did everything possible to follow procedure and give SCO as much rope as they needed to hang themselves. So, on what basis is SCO going to argue their appeal? Are there any possible levers there? Or is this just another delay tactic they know ultimately won't work?
The enemies of Democracy are
Sorry dude.
She's a real person. There's a little too much mythos and drama sometimes about that fact, but yeah, she's real.
On the other hand, so are you, despite your AC status.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Anyone else read that statement and immediately think that SCO is chasing a pipedream? If they think they can survive financially and somehow go after IBM again in five years to recoup their loses I want whatever they're smoking.
Chill out. Just wipe the "SCO" section off your resume and you'll be fine. Besides, your avatar Maureen O'Gara already outed her ("MY GOD, SHE'S A J.W.!!!").
After years of hearing about their BS tactics, trying to sue all sorts of businesses, I don't even know what they do anymore. I'm partly joking, but you rarely hear anything about them beyond court cases. Usually, you hear about a company doing something dumb/stupid for a while, then you hear about some product they are releasing or something new they are doing; you know, like companies that provide a service or a product. Not with SCO. I just don't understand how any company like that could ever expect new customers or continued contracts with any dignity. I know they shot themselves in the foot so many times, but most companies I've seen do this in the past are at least worked on something substantial while lawsuits continue. end rant
However, this is /. not groklaw, so I won't be deleted :-)
So, stuff you, Groklaw shills, troll somewhere else. Anonymously of course.
If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
But hell, if we're thinking implausible nightmare scenarios, Barack Obama could have a heart attack right now, Biden and Hillary could split, the Republicans could win on that basis, McCain could have a heart attack in a couple of months, and we could be all saying "President Palin" a year from now.
Hey, could happen. Right?
No. Supposing Obama died of cardiac arrest and Biden died or refused to take office, the current sitting Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, would become president until a new president qualifies. (The specifics of how a new president qualifies are unspecified -- this would be left up to Congress)
My blog
It will be a jury of people, of course. A "jury of your peers" means that it will be a jury of regular citizens taken from the area you live in. It does not mean some special test is performed to make sure they are in every way equal to you.
The jury of your peers thing was designed to prevent two things:
1) The government stacking the jury with it's own people. For example the government making a law saying "All jurors must be active law enforcement officers and must pass special selection of the prosecution." The jury must be selected from the population at large, they don't get to limit it to only people who are likely to be favorable to them.
2) The government picking jurors from a place that is biased against the defendant. For example suppose a black person is accused of a crime. Then suppose the government goes and flys in people from a location known to be highly racist to sit on the jury. Well, you can't do that. The jurors come from the venue where the rial is held.
That's what jury of your peers is all about. It means that the jury will be chosen from the body of citizens in the area where the trial happens. They don't get to stack the deck. There are then further interviews and challenges from both the prosecution lawyer and your lawyer. However neither side gets to limit the pool a prior.
It doesn't mean that you get to have a jury of people who are your exact age, race, IQ, political beliefs, and so on.
[...]You need to find the Resurrection Ship and put a nuke in its colon.... preferably making it a HUGE swollen colon, that no deep space Ben-Gay nor Preparation H can favorabley re-sequence[...]
You want to take on Microsoft?
The only way to do that is to make sure no major retailer wants to sell Windows and preloaded Windows computers
Good luck with that!
Here be signatures
"I'm doing a school project, daddy. It's about what makes America great. What does?"
"Why, that's simple -- it's our endless system of appeals."
[paraphrased, of course]
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
But the saga of Dune... was far from over
So GP just got the mechanism wrong. To get a president Palin, the simplest way is probably for Biden to die, retire, refuse to take office, etc. Obama nominates Palin (real likely) and Palin is confirmed by the Senate (not a gimme). Then Obama would need to die, step down, be impeached, etc. At which point Palin becomes president. Very low probability, but still possible.
Wouldn't you please die already? This isn't funny anymore. Hell, it isn't even boring. It's plain scary.
LawyersAlwaysWin
Scientologists vs Mormons ~ Another epic battle between aliens and predators.
"Still Alive" by Jonathan Coulton?
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
>No. Supposing Obama died of cardiac arrest and Biden died or refused to take office, the current sitting Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, would
>become president until a new president qualifies. (The specifics of how a new president qualifies are unspecified -- this would be left up to
>Congress)
I don't know where you get that idea. If, say, the Speaker of the House becomes president, it's clearly "for keeps", until they leave office or the term expires. Congress doesn't get a take-back unless they make a case for impeachment. The 20th Amendment leaves it unspecified as to what happens if a President-Elect is merely incapacitated (or found to be ineligible, not going there) before inauguration day. If you read the testimony of Sen. Cornyn, you get the idea that succession amounts to a person taking the role of an "Acting President" where they don't actually become president, except by virtue of their *role*, and could be removed from office by removal from that role. Is Cornyn right? He makes a pretty good point about all the Cabinet members living in DC, but he sort of misses the point that if a nuclear strike took out all of DC, the question of "who is President?" would be pretty damned far down the list of important concerns for anyone.
There's also a potential reading of the 25th Amendment and Article II that could create this scenario: President and Vice President both killed. Before the Speaker of the House can be sworn in, House votes Commander Taco in as Speaker. Is the new President the person who was Speaker at the moment the President was killed? Or at the moment of the swearing in? Or does this move make Commander Taco ineligible and we move down the list?
If the list passes the Speaker and Senate pro-tem, and a Cabinet member takes office, can the House appoint a new Speaker who can replace that Cabinet member, and if that happens, is that person still President (I say yes,
And what happens if the President is merely wounded, incapacitated, but the Vice President is killed?
At this point it's a foregone conclusion although still speculative, that Obama is the President-Elect -- remember that the election is still two weeks away. Maybe they will all vote for Ron Paul or Xenu.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
While Barack Obama is currently called "President Elect", technically he really isn't yet. All that has happened so far is that he has won the majority of Presidential Electors pledged to him. According to US Code at 3, USC 7, the date that the Electoral College meets to actually vote for the next President of the United States is the first Monday following the second Wednesday in December. In 2008, this will be on December 15.
What happens if a "President-Elect" dies before being elected by the college? Answer: the electors pledged to that candidate get to vote for whomever they want. If half the Democratic electors voted for Hillary and the other half voted for Biden, then John McCain could theoretically become President in 2008.
(After the electoral college election, the standard rules of succession hold. So if Obama died on Christmas, Biden would be our next President.)
Again, none of this is likely. But it could happen. Let's be all very nice to Renegade's nervous looking Secret Service detail.
Jeesus, some people (like whomever modded me off-topic) just hate to have (or let others in on) fun. Don't you realize that LAUGHING or helping someone laugh is a lot more healthier than disparaging a single person? Not as if i'm a politician with so much power over others that i MUST be under scrutiny for the good of the public.
I thought i was being funny. Maybe YOU don't know the issues of facebook for f/b users who hated "their" view of their profiles changing. There is a parallel here.
Besides, last week i saw to my dismay, LOTS of what qualified as "redundant" comments -- as many as 20 in a sub-200-comment topic -- and virtually NONE was marked redundant. This tells me i have one or more foes who sign up looking to slam-dunk/grind or agitate people.
Slashdot's moderation systems asks people to concentrate on being positive. Apparently, slashdot doesn't seem to track and reign in people who "stalk" or abuse karma/moderation points.
If i am so worthy of being bitch-slapped/fucked with and having my scores capriciously capped, slashed and turned from a positive rating/description to redundant/off-topic/troll, then WHY is my Karma never changing. Is that, too, another issue with Slashdot's karma and scoring systems? That could very well BE why these pages are being reshuffled. Maybe slashdot's core controllers are finally sick and tired of cowardly stalkers who never get listed as foe/hater, and gleefully do damage to people.
I virtually NEVER attack specific people here. I don't mod people, mainly because MY sense of humor often is at variance with others', and so, who am i to say what IS humor to a broad spectrum of readers here. It makes me feel good, and my day a few notches better when someone takes their time to comment back and on the occasion when they mod me up, or at least find some way to avoid undercutting me. Undercutting is, to me, a vindictive, petty way to suppress someone, literally censor them, by forcing others to have to read below -1 just to sleuth out player-hate victims.
This isn't a grouse: it's what i see/feel going on. I at first hated the new layouts, and to some extent thought the previous was better, but now, if the long range goal is to bury player haters, i whole-heartedly hope VA/slash adopt a player-hater tracker!
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Got an axe to grind, or just felt like tossing some FUD about?
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
> A bullet through the head should kill it. I saw it on TV once, I think it was a documentary.
I see no reason for us to limit ourselves in trying to kill SCO. I mean, while SCO has zombie-like traits, they could also be described as a hydra (each lawsuit getting cut off leads to more lawsuits).
Therefore, the most obvious course of action is to try every means of killing it we can think of in the hopes that at least one method words. And even those methods which do not work are likely to provide entertainment.
Speaking of which, does anyone know where to buy pitchforks in bulk? I'm trying to get a good deal. I could also use some volunteers...
Generally, though with some exceptions, a judge decides the law of a case, and a jury will decide the facts. If there is no jury, a judge decides law and facts. The facts are almost always decided at what's called the "court of first instance", and the facts are based upon submissions to the court through affidavits, documentary evidence, and sworn witness testimony ("evidence"). It is the duty of the trier of fact to decide, where conflicting stories exist, the credibility of the evidence. Usually in civil trials a fact is "found" where the trier of fact decides that on a balance of probabilities (i.e. chances greater than 50%) a fact is true.
An appellate court, which one appeals to after a decision at the court of first instance, generally modifies the decisions of the court of first instance in only specific circumstances. Those circumstances typically include a mistake in the interpretation or application of the law, or the creation of new law based upon fundamental principles of justice.
Generally, however, the appellate court is never a trier of fact (as a judge or jury is at the court of first instance). An appellate court is not privy to the assessment of credibility, direct or cross examination of witnesses, etc., it generally cannot call witnesses, parties to the proceeding cannot introduce new evidence (unless it is crucial, and even then in only limited circumstances), etc. As a general rule, appellate courts determine law, but not fact. The facts were already decided at the court of first instance. For that reason, the standard for changing the facts of the court of first instance by an appellate court is exceptionally high, usually with a test being described as something like the facts found in the court of first instance were "patently unreasonable", which is to say politely "absurd".
Generally the policy behind the exclusivity of fact-finding being by a court of first instance is that parties get one shot at the evidence, which is to encourage full disclosure and expedition of the entire court process. It also specializes the Judges of the courts, and creates "higher courts" that may focus their attention on logical and policy questions. With exceptions, it is often, but not universally, thought that higher courts will attract greater academic aptitude.
That being said, if there is either a patently absurd finding at the court of first instance, or alternatively there is a procedural unfairness, sometimes an appellate court will send the proceeding back to a court of first instance for a new trial.
I think it would be rather odd for SCO to get another crack at the facts. It is rather likely that, given adequate funding, they could keep at this for quite some time.
On the Internet nobody knows you're a sock puppet.
Oh, sorry, they do. Never mind. Hi Darl!
PJ, the arch-censor of Groklaw, desperately needs you to believe this, lest IBM quit funding Groklaw and she has to go out and find a REAL job.
She could always get back with Duncan and resurrect her pop career.
The ones who say they met her are full of shit and liars.
I'm acquainted with many people who are full of shit. I've never encountered one who was full of liars. Where might I meet such a specimen?
Has anyone seen an actual install of an SCO product in recent years? I mean a real, live, in production server running SCO Open Server?
HOLY FUCK! As if the new user page weren't bad enough, it mixes the classic green color scheme with whatever the theme is for the current subdomain, if you happen to be on one. You thought http://slashdot.org/~CleverNickName looked bad? Check out http://yro.slashdot.org/~CleverNickName or http://games.slashdot.org/~CleverNickName or http://it.slashdot.org/~CleverNickName!!!!!
Orange links on green? My eyes! Ze googles, zey do nossing!
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
'Nuff said. Except it's not enough because this sorry excuse for a redesign is still there. Oh, god, it's like a 15 year old with no concept of color got let loose with FrontPage and wanted to do a MySpace lookalike but without the same professionalism and restraint.
It's just Pamela Jones telling the world that she really is relevant and should still be listened to, in spite of what she's said on other subjects.
By the time all these appeals, re-trials, re-appeals, going to higher courts, returning to lower courts, and all this other nonsense, but the time all of this is complete, two things will have come to pass: First, a forest the size of Brazil will have been destroyed to produce all this legal paperwork; and Second, Linus' great grandchildren will have declared the entire Linux codebase "deprecated" in favor of something even better. And then this stupid $CO muthufuckas can shove their stupid judgment right up their rear end where it belongs.
Or does this move make Commander Taco ineligible and we move down the list?
If anyone down the list from Commander Taco becomes president, I'm leaving the country.
Well I guess Slashdot has to die first and stop promoting them before SCO will finally fuck off.
After all this is the only place desperate to spread SCO's FUD over the last years.
Slashdot is worse than SCO and I seriously regret having registered an account here.
And the saga of Dune... is far from over...
Why won't you just die?!