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Automated Scripts Overrun eBay Holiday Contest
turnkeylinux writes "TechCrunch is reporting that eBay is under fire from users because of a holiday giveaway contest gone awry. On Tuesday Nov. 25, eBay announced its $1 Holiday Doorbusters deals promotion, giving away 100 gifts on a daily basis, all for a $1 fixed price. The gifts ranged from jewelry, clothing, digital cameras, and GPS devices to a brand-new Chevrolet Corvette. The only catch is that there's no announcement on when these items are released or in which category they will be. But cheaters came up with a clever way of winning deals on an automated basis by continuously running scripts to bid on items for $1."
Are these scripts still running. Seems like it's time to list a ton of stuff for a buck that wouldn't even sell at a garage sale. I wonder if they check the shipping price... could really nail them then.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
When griefing gets boring in online games, take it to the next best place: Ebay!
Isn't this the foundation of Ebay?
I read the internet for the articles.
eBay needs help. They have alienated there sellers, gone to supporting "stores" more than hobby/small-time sellers, and they take almost 10% of sells.
Now they show they can't think through the obvious implications of a badly designed promotion (scam).
Really ebay would do much better to cut their fees and support the mom and pops in this economic environment. I think the time is ripe for competition in the on-line auction market. http://poorbenjamin.blogspot.com/2008/08/for-jerry-yang-to-ponder.html
Think Deeply.
Meanwhile, bot scripts are being offered on RentACoder for $20 and even free of charge here and there.
How can I sell my scripts if there is someone giving them out for free? This is outrageous!
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
I don't see how making a script of this sort is cheating. If they don't want to allow scripting that is their problem to try and stop but anyone with the knowhow will realize that spending 30 min writing a script is much better then spending 24 hrs/day hitting refresh on the same search.
It seems Ebay's advertising CEO's have trumped it's techinicians, as is inevitable in all companies.
World is full of Assholes ... And Assholes use the law to continue to be assholes.
Everyone knows an asshole. You know, the guy/gal who sits on the fence of the law, skirting around the edges, being an asshole and taking every advantage to be one.
We all know we want to punch the asshole in the face, because they definitely deserve it, but we also know that the Asshole will sue and so we don't.
We're in the age of the "legal asshole", the asshole that never breaks any law, but abuses the gray areas simply because they can.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I've seen this done on a few other websites as well... wowhead.com (World of Warcraft db) ran a contest where you had to find where 5 different pictures were located on the site. It wasn't the best contest as the name of the file name was the exact same that they used for the caption as the filename for the page. So what people ended up doing was caching the whole site and just doing a quick search for where file name *******.jpg was located at.
The first year it was in business, it was fun and useful.
Now it is so-called "power sellers". Just a bunch of merchants
without a brick and mortar presence.
Let it die the death it deserves and stop posting eBay related
CRAP.
me@localhost:$ python grinch.py -bid_a_buck_on_ebay
I missed out due to timing (Probably a script beat me) but a proper search, with auto refresh added to page does just fine.
How is this ripping off eBay? They were going to sell this item at $1 anyway. If anyone's being ripped off, it's the other eBay users who now realistically have zero chance (as opposed to a miniscule chance) of getting lucky and scoring a nice holiday bonus.
Seconded!
And what is ebays policy on gouging on shipping costs? What if the paper clip is packed super safely, in multiple layers of padding, driving the shipping cost into the double digits?
Or better than a paper clip, what if I offer to sell this nifty document I just created? Can somebody create a script for me to post my blank.doc every minute for $1, please?
The solution is to put out a lot of fake items (e.g. empty envelope sent by USPS) for $1 as well. The automated script wins thousands of these, bankrupting the Script Kiddies. Moral: Look before you bid.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Whoever came up with this idea should have bothered to put a minimum time limit. Even if someone is super-speedy, it should take at least a half second to click the "bid" button, load the bidding page, and hit submit.
I would have at least set up a new random bid URL for each items so people couldn't just hitting the URL for regular bidding and would need to take the time to download the item page before finding the URL for that item. Plus, after they caught on, that'd reduce the # of false bids on other $1 items.
But then I've done similar myself, although not so scummy, just auto-buying a Wii(at the regular price) from Amazon so I didn't have to stay awake all night for the 5 minute window that it was in stock.
I still feel OK with it, since I didn't check Amazon more frequently than I would have hitting F5 and scalpers are still selling it for a $100 mark up this long after release.
/me hurridly begins posting his "ebook" on ebay for $1 each.
I agree with brian0918, unless its stated in the user agreement, there is no "cheating" occuring. They are just smart...
When are dumb business people that come up with these ideas going to be weeded out of the IT industry? eBay is an Internet company and yet they amaze me in how much they do not understand the Internet; the slashdot crowd should be used as consultants to test out stupid ideas like this and at least discover what may be an Achilles heal(the real strength of trolls.) People should should stop shopping there and let them fade into the internet as a relic of the early 2000s.
Since the economy is taking a big dumb, I am betting they are leveraged to the max like lots of other companies and it should be easy to tip them into bankruptcy - hopefully Chapter 7. How many people have gotten screwed by eBay because they are not accountable to those that buy goods in their marketplace? I can name several people that have been screwed by eBay, which is almost equal to as many people as have been touched by cancer in my life - 1 in 3. It is amazing that eBay wants to eat their cake and have it too by creating a marketplace and not protecting their buyers. Needless to say, I don't know anyone that goes to buy stuff on eBay. Why would we if they don't care about their reputation?
just setup lots of auctions with bits of scrap paper for 1$ and set the P&P to $10.
In fact I have a load of junk mail I would like to sell on ebay.
What's funny, is that is a really awesome idea... or a download from your server of a FOSS to cover "costs". Or any number of infinite goods that you can produce online for less than $1.. same could work for indy band mp3's, etc.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
they just couldput in a recaptcha... prevent bot bidding and help digitize books... it's win-win!
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
More assholes need to get fucked.
That's just my POV... no more, no less.
By using that logic no company should ever advertise because it raises the base cost of doing business... which is bad for their customers. The reality is that advertising increases market share which generally lowers the per transaction cost and saves customers money. If we all thought your way there'd be no such thing as marketing. Wait.. maybe you're on to something...
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
This should be easy to catch. Just search the database for users making a few thousand $1 bids per day. Normal users probably won't be doing that level of bidding, especially all at the same price. Of course, then the script writers could make the bids random values between $1 and $2 (eating the extra $1 would be nothing if your prize is really worth a few hundred or thousand dollars). Still, looking for users making a large number of low cost bids should be a warning flag.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Ebay tried to make things harder for the scripters as time went on. The first few days, the listings were simply text, easily searched by bots (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270311657856&ru). They then shifted over to making the entire description an image (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270313225226&ru).
Maybe it's time to sell my set of foldable[1] air guitars. They're still in mint condition since I rarely play them.
[1] Folds up and fits nicely in an envelope. Cool eh?
If the automated scripts are just placing a $1 bid on everything they find, it sounds like a good time to ebay the contents of my penny jar...individually.
I agree with parent. This sound's more like skill and cunning winning out (assuming scripter wrote their own code).
Hear me out. We pay athletes way too much money because they have skills that a supposedly worth that much (my bias is probably obvious). Here is some skill "players" taking advantage of scripting to get some rewards.
This isn't gaming the system like sniping or similar. It has no direct impact on most people (maybe if you were forced to pay fees on a $1 item you put for auction and had the script bid)..I'm not out anything unless I honestly believed I was going to beat out the million other people looking for the prize.
Seems somewhat like "Real Genius" with scripts instead of post cards. Well my opinion anyway..and..I'm not much of an eBayer so I could be missing the point (prefer craigslist)
I love the sound of distortion in the morning -- webcommando
If the automated scripts are just placing a $1 bid on everything they find, it sounds like a good time to ebay the contents of my penny jar...individually.
I was thinking more along the lines of state quarters, plus S&H and insurance. Maybe the next sale will be a money maker as the script kiddies find their liability for their purchases mount. If they relesed quarters at 1500 items to each sale item, it would kill the profitability of the scripts and the problem would go away.
The truth shall set you free!
In many places that is still against the law, even if you could get the Asshole to agree to such an invasion. Not getting permission first is definitely a bad idea, and illegal in most jurisdictions.
ON an asside note, most bad laws are written because some Asshole did something that wasn't against the law. So they write a law to make it illegal so we can "legally" punch them in the face (ie jail or fine).
You'll see this everytime someone says ... "There ought to be a law". No, there shouldn't be a law, we should be allowed to punch assholes for being assholes.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
The problem with buying on Craigslist is that you have to be careful where you go and who you buy from and who you sell to.
I've had good experiences selling some items, but I'm always REAL wary of prospective buyers who email you one-line questions like "Where do you live?" It's too easy to have it become a burglars' shopping service, or even if they buy something not terribly expensive, they get a chance to case your house. Buying is a whole other risk category; wandering into a strange house/neighborhood for a deal with a few hundred dollars in your pocket can be risky. There have been several stories about people getting robbed in the local news media.
Personally, my stuff for sale I've kept in the garage and only let the buyers in there and not into the rest of my house. I also holster up my Glock in case something weird were to happen, and I would certainly do the same if I went to buy something.
I'm sure the robberies are more the exception than the rule and if you don't assume there's a great deal on expensive items in the ghetto you won't have problems, but it still gets risky.
How about when dueling was allowed?
Use a CAPTCHA. End of scripted bids, scripted sniping, and anything else that removes the human element from the process.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Buyers have no incentive to pay anymore, but you always pay to list the item.
Feedback has been removed so shill bidding is easy.
Those look like analogue stations. In 2009, they'll disappear, whiteband or no whiteband.
That would mean they only loose 99 cents a pop. Since they're assholes, I was thinking of selling them one dollar asswhooping insurance, then beating the crap out of them and raising my rates.
Help fight spam
It's not just assholes that the world is full of.
See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Chuck. And all the assholes want is to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Chuck. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
Sounds to me more like the guy who made his living playing a game at Chuck E Cheese. You know the one with the slots that you use a plunger to push the prize out? Sorry I can't find a link and I have NO clue how to find that page again. anyway he had a similar machine in his Dad's store and got to play it for free any time he wanted. He figured out that the expensive prize was always in the exact same slot wherever he went and figured out how using muscle memory to hit that slot dead perfect every time. So now he cleans out the slot at Chuck E Cheese,bars,etc from one side of the country to another and sells the prizes.
So just like that guy it sounds like these script guys found a legal weak spot in the system and used their brains to exploit it to their advantage. Since in any endeavor where large sums of money can be had for little risk there will ALWAYS be someone looking for the weak spots to give them an edge(Like you pointed out with "Real Genius") the only one with the problem is eBay for not bothering to think things through.
I just wish a new place would come along and kick eBay's ass. I used to love shopping on eBay but they have become such a BS scam, with eBay often screwing both sides to boot, that I closed my account and haven't bothered to go back in over 3 years. And I know that I am far from alone. Talking to my friends they have all decided to avoid eBay like the clap simply because they got burnt one too many times either as a buyer or a seller and all they got from eBay was "tough shit", so like me they simply won't go near the place. Just too much risk with too little chance of reward.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
"The reality is that advertising ... saves customers money."
Amazing, that must be why pharmaceuticals are so inexpensive.
Increased market share reduces cost to the consumer? Where is the maximum on the curve, because clearly a perfect monopoly does not result in the lowest cost to the consumer, since it can charge whatever it wants. Your comment got modded funny, but maybe for the wrong reason.
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
Woah.. TMI
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
eBay can list 100 million pennies for sale, each with a reserve price of $1. By the end of the contest, the script kiddies get a bill for $1 million.
Welcome to my friends list. "legal asshole" meet your consul in the form of "But I'm not hurting anyone" and backup singer "They're a big company. They deserve it". Seen on tour with "I'm not with them but I secretly agree".
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
At least partially from Team America: World Police.
"But cheaters came up with a clever way of winning deals on an automated basis by continuously running scripts to bid on items for $1."
I'd like to think that I'm not a dumbass -- but how is this cheating? Isn't laissez-faire capitalism the point of eBay? In a free market, the cunning are the victors. Plain and simple.
Did they really expect folks to waste two entire weeks searching the world's worst flea market for their picayune door prizes? Furthermore, when a punk kid can outwit your marketing promotion of the year with a few lines of code, maybe it's time to rethink your strategy.
Not a Jew
I dunno...are you saying everyone taking full advantage of a given situation, is an asshole?
So, anyone working within the legal tax laws, to keep as much of their earned money as possible, is an asshole?
I'm not so sure I agree. I mean, ok in many instances, things happen that might not be in the 'spirit' of a law, but, that to me means a better more finite and distinct law should be written, etc. It helps to (hopefully) keep to many overly broad laws to be passed anyway.
But, I think if someone is operating in the confines of the law...well, they are just acting smart to get the greatest advantage of a given situation given the rules.
Like counting cards at blackjack...if you learn it, do it in your head...you are playing the game as the rules define...there should be nothing wrong with it. It is not legal, and I really dont' think the casinos should be allowed to prevent you from playing.
If I'm mis-reading what you mean, please correct me...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
"How is this ripping off eBay?"
Well... by cheating on the contest, it's hurting eBay customers, which could be interpreted as "ripping off" eBay, because they may lose money on this.
However these scripts aren't doing anything ebay wasn't already designed to do. Here's the $1 Corvette auction. Says "Holiday Doorbusters" in text in the auction and it's a $1 auction, so anyone with half a brain could search all auction text for "Holiday Doorbusters" and narrow the search to only auctions that are $1. You can do this manually within the search tools provided by eBay, and that functionality on ebay has been available for many years. Dozens of programs existed for the past few years that can automatically search titles and auctions for keywords and limit it to under a certain price. I have one I use that I know has been around since at least 2003, and I'm sure eBay knows these programs exist.
So if anything eBay did this to themselves and encouraged the "cheating" by making it so simple to do. If they really wanted people to search ebay for great deals they should have made the whole page an image, that would have prevented searching at least.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That's a whole different case....there actually was NO direct law on the books against what she did. They tried to find one, but, couldn't. They instead stretched an unrelated to law to just convict her of something, which IMHO, is a dangerous thing. But, really...look at what they charged her with...it had nothing to do with her hazing a girl that committed suicide, nothing at all to do with that in the charges.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The seller is still able to mark an item as not being paid for, which affects a user's eBay rating.
S.D.Rycroft http://www.simon.rycroft.name
That will only work if we can all agree on what makes a person an asshole.
Sounds like Peppermint Patty really lost it
Time to clean out all those air guitars I was holding on to, and damn, I had so many too. Guess $1's not a bad profit for them though.
How about when dueling was allowed?
Dueling assholes? Scary thought! What would they use for ammunition?
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
This sounds alot to what happened to the online sales of tickets for AC/DC in Belgium (and i suppose other places too), whom were almost impossible to buy through the ticketsales websites due to overload (the overload actually started the day before the sales even opened), and the backlash even prompted investigations by the department of commerce (since the tickets popped up on lots of black market sites). Basicly, online sales of limited items opens a large, *VERY LARGE* window for abuse, especially if the items will only go up in value & the costs of a botnet is cheap enough.
Assholes never believe that they are being assholes. SO you'll never get "all" to agree.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.