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Broadband Access Without the Pork?
An anonymous reader writes "Like many consumers nowadays, I find more of my time spent on the internet and various wireless devices (e.g. mobile phone). This has gotten to the point where I basically do not use a landline or cable television anymore, and they are essentially pork on my broadband bill, which further subjects the consumer to all sorts of clandestine fees that aren't disclosed until the first bill arrives and add a non-trivial sum (in my case, nearly 100%) to the monthly rate. However, it seems that all broadband access providers have this stipulation, that an internet customer must first have a basic phone or cable TV service in order to sign on for the internet service. Are there any ISPs that can get around this and still deliver broadband internet service at a competitive rate?"
My neighbors' wi-fi access point provides internet access for me without me having to pay for TV or landline access, like you said. I don't even have to pay for the internet, which I actually use!
I recommend everyone switch to this kind of ISP.
Speakeasy provides me with naked DSL.
I've long maintained that learning how to ask questions properly is a big part of getting a useful response.
Apropos of which, positing a question that is highly location-specific in a global forum and then not specifying one's location is an excellent way to get no useful responses whatsoever.
some broadband places may give you a cheaper rate with such pork but not
all of them require it. Also some dsl providers do offer dry pair (or naked)
dsl, but only if you ask. Some digging may be required on your part.
If I could walk that way I wouldnt need cologne.
I got dry-loop DSL through AT&T. It was a pain to convince them why, but after the third time I tried what one of the articles on the consumerist recommended - going directly to retention dept - and that got everything rolling. The price is slighly more without phone for same DSL service, but overall without phone line my total bill is less than what it would have been with phone.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Bell Sympatico, Rogers, Cogeco, and Telus all offer internet only solutions.
Aley Tannes
I have Verizon Fios 10Mbps up / 2 Mbps down with no other services from them. They also do DSL without phone lines and the only thing you miss out on cost wise is that you start paying the "normal" price right away instead of a 6 month promo price that is then raised to the "normal" price. Of course, if you don't live in Verizon territory, this is completely meaningless.
In my area and within the past two years, AT&T has decided to begin offering DSL without local phone service. Their highest speed plan is about $10 more than if you get it with local phone service, but even still it is only $45. Two years ago when I looked at Comcast in my area, it would've been $54 at least for me to have internet service alone.
Where I live in S. California, Verizon is required to provide dry loops to residences if requested. That is, I have a copper pair which Verizon has provided but overwhich no POTS runs. Just
ADSL. ADSL provided by LinkLine communications with ~7.x
Mbps down, 768 Kbps up.
Most telcos will be happy to sell you a T1 line without having to purchase cable TV or phone service.
[Insert pithy quote here]
The cable company I work for will sell you a internet only account. They do however charge you a $10.00 fee on top of your internet bill.
If your area is served by AT&T, ask for a dry-loop DSL line.
it's the same thing, just no dial-tone on the line.
I just got the Elite (up to 6Mbps down/ 768Kbps up) for 35.00 a month.
I don't have cable TV and I have Internet access, although I'd have to say I'm getting ripped off. It's around 50 dollars per month (it comes to around $53), and the speed I get is horribly slow. My only other options would be to move or get AT&T, which is even worse.
Despite the service issues, Comcast does provide broadband service (at least in the Portland area) without either cable TV or telephone services. I don't reach the data transfer caps (which are finally explicit) and I've solved the email alias problems by using gmail (Comcast frequently refuses mail from email forwarding services as spam). I'd love to have some true competition, but I do get relatively reliable broadband service from Comcast without any other services.
... offers Dry-Loop DSL for $30 per month, plus the cost of the copper line at around $9.00 a month.
Living in Norway all the ISPs provide internet without needing anything else (cable/phone). Personally I have a 12mb line.
The Long Now Foundation
I use Earth Link cable which is just resold Time warner and that is all... no cable TV no land line $41.95/mo
I tether using my Verizon Blackberry as a modem. It's only 15 bucks on top of the normal Blackberry plan and allows me to use my laptop anywhere. The EVDO speeds are fast enough to, say, stream YouTube videos without buffering, but downloading large files can be a pain as you'll rarely get a download speed above 75k or so. Still, it's pretty cheap addition if you already have a PDA/Blackberry plan and the mobility is the best thing about it.
I know that both Verizon and Comcast offer no-strings-attached DSL/cable (at least in my area), although Comcast has a surcharge for TV-less internet that slightly exceeds the cost of their $15/month basic cable package, making it slightly absurd.
However this is all a bit pointless as we have no idea where you are and therefore have no idea what ISPs you can subscribe to. Seriously, wtf? There are no global ISPs. If you're being typically US-centric (nothing really wrong with that here) there still are no national US ISPs. So the question is stupid.
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
In Orlando, Florida I have Brighthouse high speed - no other services. In Phoenix, Arizona I did the same with Cox - though eventually I picked up their phone service too since it was a good deal, but initially I only used them for internet.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Not sure if you are in their service area, but Speakeasy offers "One-Link" which is DSL that does not require a landline with a dialtone, only the physical wires.
I've been using it for years and am down to just cellphone + dsl for my telecom bills.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
what ISPs require a phone line? I have never heard of that being a requirement. The only reason I could think of is a DSL ISP, but even then I think Qwest will sell you internet without the phone line.
VERIZON:
They charge $15 a month for internet. The phone is required since DSL uses the lines, however by downgrading to "pay per call" service I reduced my bill to about $6 a month for the phone. That's $21 total.
COMCAST:
As far as I know they provide internet without the requirement for TV. The internet-only price is $60/month which is still high in my opinion but the speed is good (50 megabit/s). ----- If they did require TV services, I would downgrade to the $10 a month "limited" service which provides local-only channels.
FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
I don't have a land line connected to my Verizon FIOS account.
Here in Palo, Iowa, you can get naked 768k SDSL from the Palo Telephone Coop for $150 a month with a 2 year contract. I opted to go for the plan with a [no caller id, no call waiting, no voicemail] phone line for $105. :\
Whale
I'm with COX communications in the mid-atlantic area. I only have basic cable, and 15 Mbit internet access for about $70. I'm pretty content with that.
Many companies offer an internet-only option. However it's rather expensive by itself. Thus they would like you to bundle it with other services. You pay less than if you were to get the services separately. If getting internet only is really important to you, then ask around for that option. Some companies don't always list it as an option.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I recently moved into a rural area where I had no options for cable or DSL from my telco, ended up getting EVDO (mobile broadband) from Sprint. Not as fast as cable, but certainly fast enough to be usable. I got the service directly without tying it to a voice plan, so all I pay for is the EVDO service. I then got myself a Cradlepoint router that let me plug the EVDO modem right into it, becoming as easy to use as a cable modem.
Works really well, speeds similar to DSL. There is a 5GB "cap" but whenever I ask Sprint about it they don't give me the same answer—sometimes I'm told I'll be asked to pay more, other times they say it slides, and I've also been told they have higher-tiered plans but I can't get into one until I exceed the cap regularly. Not sure they know themselves what they're doing. But the service is excellent, and I haven't had any issues with my data usage.
I have broadband internet from Earthlink through Time Warner Cable in New York City. No cable TV or phone. I'm happy with it, moderately cheap, run web/email servers, IP technically dynamic but it hasn't changed in a year, etc.
However, don't get Earthlink digital phone. That sucks fucking shit, horrible service, no one can fix anything. They even *lost* our phone number! (Lot of stories about that online if you search.)
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
the only one of the telcos, in fact, that is pleased to do so. better to get SOME money than NO money.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
...right up until the promotion period ends after 6 months, and $30 a month turns into $60 a month
I live in a Time Warner area where they charge an extra $20/mo for *not* subscribing to cable TV. Enter Earthlink. I called them to get the same rate but it doesn't include the $20 monthly surcharge. Here's the kicker, Time Warner came out to connect my service that they provide, install the modem and hand me my first bill. It's 100% Time Warner, they mail me a bill every month for about $45, but because I signed up through Earthlink I don't pay any additional "no cable TV" fees. When I need support, I call Time Warner and get the same crappy (but first party) support that everyone else does. To be honest, I'm not sure what Earthlink does besides provide EMail accounts and hijack my invalid DNS requests.
I believe Earthlink has similar agreements with other coax and DSL providers, you should at least give them a call.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Here's AT&T's packages.
I do enjoy not having to pay a list of regulatory and gov't fees, also.
in Canada.
The only high speed option with competition. I use a local WISP (rapidwave.net) and I don't pay for anything I don't use. It's not as fast as some cable providers, but it's 5/2 so it's not bad. About $50/mo. Most areas seem to be served by a WISP these days, check into it a little and you might be able to find something.
They also provide me with a static IP so I can run server processes. It's a "don't break things" kind of arrangement. If I don't cause problems, they leave me alone to do my thing.
The main providers in the Minneapolis area consist of Qwest DSL or Comcast Cable. Comcast of course tacks on an extra fee if you don't subscribe to cable tv as well. I was able to get around that by subscribing to Earthlink Cable broadband. Basically, all the equipment and connections are provided by Comcast, even the bill comes from Comcast (it says Earthlink in the line item), but I pay the same rate as a TV subscriber.
In the RDU area in North Carolina, I subscribe to earthlink which uses Time-Warner's cable lines. I do not subscribe to cable (analog-to-digital TV converter) or any landline phone service (cell phones only). I didn't think that was all that unusual anymore.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
I used to have COX cable internet, no TV or phone required.
AT&T offers the same for DSL, though they don't really advertise it:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071231-att-offers-20-naked-dsl-if-you-know-where-to-look.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070618-att-launches-10-dsl-it-hopes-no-one-signs-up-for.html
From the linked article:
Customers must also order phone service to get the budget-priced DSL service; those looking for cheap, naked DSL should look elsewhere.
Track your TV Shows with your iPhone - FREE
100 mb/s internet = 21,90 EUR/month
100 mb/s internet + unlimited telephone (France + EU + US + Canada + Israel) = 19,90 EUR a month
Negative pork?
http://numericable.fr/
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Interestingly, if your neighbors had their broadband through Speakeasy you could be doing this on the up and up through their Netshare program, because it some cases this probably is a practical solution.
Unfortunately, innovative offerings come through competition, and with high speed broadband moving increasingly toward cable and phone companies' offerings (i.e., cable and fiber) you'll be dealing with local monopolies who have no real incentive to offer you those sorts of options.
"You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
I have FiOS for Internet only. No phone or TV service on it. Supposedly, if you bug them enough they'll give you dry-loop DSL, aka naked DSL, which is DSL without the phone service.
They say you'll save money bundling mobile, broadband, and phone lines on one bill. Not only has the total sum of the bills gone up, the bills become impossible to debug because support for those three areas are all separate specialists who don't have the authority to make changes on the side that isn't theirs.
I'm not usually a violent man but dealing with these companies causes visions of guillotines and wood-chippers to dance through my head.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
If your local Cable provider is Time-Warner, you can order Road Runner by itself. I can state this authoritatively, because Road Runner is my current ISP. I pay $45/month (though this is going up to $50 next month) and no additional taxes or fees. I am not paying for cable TV because I am not buying cable TV. This has been my arrangement since 2001.
www.wavefront-av.com
AT&T has dry-loop DSL? I'm paing +$10ish for a phone line ($5 through AT&T, $5ish for government 'fees' ... taxes ...), and I was not aware that they would do it without the phone line. I know Verizon did, but didn't know AT&T did.
As a paying broadband subscriber who intentionally leaves my AP unsecured, I say you're welcome. I'm too worried about getting a good wireless signal to borrow my neighbors connection, but as long as they aren't greedy with bandwidth I don't mind sharing my own. Sure there are risks involved and I do have to boot a MAC address every now and then for abuse, but I genuinely don't mind sharing my connection with as many neighbors as I can reach.
The more people I can help without noticing a big hit in performance, the better. So internet service is free, in my neighborhood anyways.
Yes, you can borrow a cup of sugar, too.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
If DSL is a viable option then the easiest way to reduce the pork is to get a metered landline without any extra features or long distance service. Even better is to get unbundled DSL but that is rarely available.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
I get my internet (and just internet) from Speakeasy's OneLink service.
I use Time Warner cable internet (I guess they bought Roadrunner or something). 10Mb down, 1Mb up, $45/month. I don't pay for cable or phone through them or anyone else.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Last I checked it was simply $10 more to have 8Mb/s Internet w/out also having CableTV service.
With the advent of southparkstudios.com, hulu.com, NBC ABC CBS and FOX video on demain, Amazon (free) videos, et al I find myself wondering if I really want to keep Cable TV.
Then I sit back and hit Power and have Instant cable TV w/out having a hot laptop on me and streaming issues. So I think I'll keep it just a bit longer.
But Verizon is the one who cuts people off for "excessive" usage, but refused to define excessive. And then they "solved" that by telling us that downloading x thousand MP3s or x videos per month would be excessive (but not how much that is in GB).
I'm tempted to switch to them, but I already use 60 GB (30 up/30 down) per month on a 144 Mbps DSL and I can read their idea of "excessive" to be anywhere from 80-200 GB. I'm certainly not willing to join up if all I'll get are headaches.
Yes, forgoing the TV would cost you 3 dollars. After an unproductive 10 minutes on the phone with Comcast, who kept insisting that this was a new Bundling deal that would save me money, I made the following analogy. Imagine if getting just the cheeseburger cost more than getting the whole happy-meal. She wasn't impressed.
I'm pretty happy with my Comcast Business Class Cable access. It's $59.95/month for decent speed, a TOS that allows me to run servers, and no cable TV service.
"We have nothing in common, your attitude annoys me, and your political views are appalling."
Yes you can save a little money if you just ask your ISP. Cox in Fairfax, VA has their rates http://www.cox.com/fairfax/highspeedinternet/rates.asp on their site.
Just buy what you need!
" However, it seems that all broadband access providers have this stipulation, that an internet customer must first have a basic phone or cable TV service in order to sign on for the internet service." I've not found that to be the case with mediacom or qwest, the two main providers in my area currently. I am in the process of moving to a rural area and will be getting satellite via wild blue - no phone or cable there either. With quest I was able to get a stripped down version of the service provided by telling them I was going to run several linux computers and that I didn't want their stupid antivirus stuff. In the end they set me up as a small commercial account and I paid about half of what it would have cost otherwise.
Pork means government spending, particulary of a frivolous or unnecesary nature, targeted to gain favour with specific constituents.
It does not mean something I don't want to pay, however unreasonable it may be or how annoyingly bundled with something I want.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
My ISP (Hot, with Bezeq for infrastructure) provides my with a cable modem without a phone or a television. Actually, I just bought a phone and signed up with their VOIP plan, but it is available without. The OP does not mention what country he is in, should we assume that he is in AOLand? (for those of use who remember when AOL users did not know that they need to append @aol.com onto the end of their email addresses)
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
I currently use Time-Warner cable, before that I had COX and before that I had Verison. None of these providers required me to have a land-line/cable/anything else.
I lived for a few years near Charleston SC. I had Knology cable/internet service there. They had no problem disconnecting everything except internet service for $35/mo unlimited usage in 2004. I have no idea if their plans have changed recently.
As I mentioned somewhere else Numericable, the surviving French cable TV company, sells Internet (100mbps down, 1mbps up) for 21,90 EUR/month with the option of unlimited telephone for the EU, US, Canada, Turkey and Israel for -2 EUR/month extra. (I.E. it's cheaper to have the telephone than not!)
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I spelled Verizon wrong.
Although previous comments are correct about identifying your location, down here in the Florida Keys I have DSL service through EarthLink at $39.95/month total bill, and ATT/Bellsouth for local phone only with Sprint for Long Distance.
You don't need to actually watch any of the 12 fuzzy distorted channels you get with the basic cable package to qualify. (Note that in many/most areas, the government requires that cable companies have available a low-cost "basic cable" package - although they rarely advertise it, it must be available for purchase if you ask).
Austin, TX, I use RoadRunner without TV or phone (Vonage). When I was a few miles North of here, I used Cox until 2005, no TV. In my experience, DSL is the only thing you need to use the magic words to get happen without phone, but I've read plenty of success stories when people use the keyword "naked DSL".
I think you will see increased competition over time in the US. You guys may be ahead of Europe in some aspects, but not in all.
In many EU countries, internet connections based on cable or DSL can be purchased from many different providers, and in many different packets and forms.
My own internet connection is "clean" and free of bundled products. No fancy telephone services, no "free" content, no TV channels. Hell, my provider doesn't even have a mailserver for their customers, only an SMTP relay for outbound mail. They provide their customers with a cheap ZyXel router, an IP address, and a low price.
Oh, and did I mention: no filtering, no throttling and no traffic shaping?
The subscription is paid monthly with my credit card, and all contact with the company has to go through their homepage. Service is "non-existing" but on the other hand: very few people need will ever need customer service for such a simple product. (They do have a technical hotline but I have never needed it)
The company (I won't mention its name here) profiles itself as a "low-price-low-service-no-bullshit" ISP. And I think that concept will spread.
The only reason the traditional ISPs try to bundle a lot of additional "services" (read: crap!) with their connections, is to reduce the transparency of the price. And that strategy backfires - the complexity of their infrastructure gets very complex BECAUSE of that strategy. They need more servers, more power, many different types of technology, and a lot of people to support it.
Hopefully free markets will produce more "low-price-low-service-no-bullshit" ISPs. And their market terms will be a lot simpler for everyone involved: who can provide the best and simplest internet connection for the lowest possible price.
- Jesper
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
Sprint Xohm WiMax. Its available in limited areas only for now (Baltimore & Chicago) but it works great. I'm getting 6Mbps download speeds for just $25/mo (6 month promotional period; $35/mo after) with no setup fee, no contract, and no termination fee. Clearwire is rolling out similar/same technology in additional regions.
I ordered broadband with PlusNet on a BT line that was inactive, and they emailed me to say it was inactive and I'd need service on it. After I'd already ordered a phone company to provide service on it, they said that they could activate the line for £50, without mentioning any need to buy their phone service. YMMV, of course.
This seems like a really lame post.
I want to know why it has become such a popular thing to cut the land line. For safety's sake, everyone should have one wired telephone in the house. If there is a general power outage, how can you call for help?
Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
Just order dsl. When they ask for your phone number, tell them you want dry loop service.
Problem solved.
Speakeasy sells Naked DSL as OneLink which is DSL without a separate land line. They charge an extra $6 a month which is cheaper than any land-line service.
Speakeasy DSL is on the pricey side (~$50 a month for 1.5 down, 384 up) but I believe they are well worth it. I have used them for about 6 years and never experienced an unannounced outage. They are owned by BestBuy now but so far I have not noticed any changes.
CableOne has no problem selling me cable Internet without phone or TV.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
$60? Fuck. Our Charter bill is something like $140/mo (which includes digital cable, as I can't convince the rest of the household to get rid of that crap, but even still is insanely overpriced)
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
I pay (well actually my employer pays ;-)) $73/month for an 8Mbit/1Mbit connection from Knology, and they don't require me to have Knology cable TV
With TELUS, you can order what they call "dark DSL" - dumb name, but it's full DSL access, with varying speed/pricing packages, and it's without dial tone or its associated access charges..
"Yes, I have a Disaster Recovery Plan. It's called my Resume"
Time Warner does not require you to have basic cable to get Internet access. At least, in Cincinnati it doesn't.
No Comcast does not... They offer the service, but...
Strange use of 'not'
I didn't have anything except a cell phone when I signed up for FiOS. Granted, I signed up for FiOS TV + Internet, but I could have just as easily left the TV off and they would have connected it. My neighbor has that setup, and I've been thinking about dropping the TV myself.
Game... blouses.
I haven't been able to figure out why, but my ISP offers 6mb/768kb DSL with a phone line for $20 cheaper than 1.5mb/384kb "dry-loop" DSL. With the added cost of a super-limited phone line and the taxes & fees, it's only a couple bucks more.
...and hoping against hope that another competitor in the market helps bring down these draconian "incidental" charges. Then again, looking at the companies behind the WiMax rollout, I'm not optimistic.
"I got dry-loop DSL through AT&T."
Lucky you!
Perhaps you live in a big city, because here in Fort Bragg, CA, AT&T refused to give me a dry pair for anything (DSL or alarm, etc.).
If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
Now we just need to forget the antecedent.
"You know that media company, um, you know, the big one. Yea. Them. Well, I hate them."
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I've never had my own home phone service, and getting the internets isn't too much of a challenge. Here are your options:
DSL:
Both Verizon and ATT offer dry-loop DSL. This means you get a phone line that's exclusively for DSL, no home phone service. Dry loop service generally costs a bit more than traditional DSL, but you'll still save over paying for a phone line that you don't use. I think in my area Verizon's starts at around $25/mo and goes up from there.
FIBER:
Both Verizon FIOS and ATT U-Verse offer very fast internets over Fiber, without any mandatory phone service. Again, you'll probably pay a bit more for internet alone than you would in a with-phone bundle, but c'est la vie.
CABLE:
Just about every cable provider in the country offers high speed internet access. Mine's through Time Warner / Road Runner, and I can typically download things at around 1MB/sec along with low latency to close-by servers. I pay $45/mo for 15mbit service.
WIFI:
Check for a local WiFi-based ISP. Where I grew up in rural Washington, it wasn't a bad way to go. YMMV.
CELLULAR WIRELESS:
If you live in an area with 3G or EVDO coverage, you could get pretty decent access through a cellular provider. They all impose download caps, and the bandwidth isn't crazy, but you can't beat the flexibility.
SATELLITE INTERNET:
Hughesnet offers some fairly affordable satellite internet packages. There might be other providers, Google will tell you. But, be ware of less than spectacular bandwidth and very high latency. Say goodbye to online FPS gaming. If you're in the boonies, this might be your only option.
ROLL YOUR OWN:
Beg, borrow or steal wireless access from a neighbor, set up an internet sharing cooporative in your neighborhood, get a Pringles can and have a go at it. If you have the time and ability, the possibilities are endless.
Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
I have Charter's cable modem service, and while I do have their HD cable service, it's not mandatory. I agree the rates are pretty darn good, especially for where I live (basically Nowhereville, Rural America). I started out with them in 2003, paying $39.95/month for 512 kilobit download/64 kilobit upload. They were the first to provide broadband to my town. The cable company in the next town over (a more local outfit) was charging $54.95/month for 512/128.
Within three months, Charter had upgraded my price level to 1.5 megabit/128 kilobit. Over the years, they kept raising the speed, without charging more. Currently, I pay $89/month for 10 megabit/1 megabit, along with Charter's basic HD package (no HBO, Showtime or Skinemax, but that's what Netflix is for). This is *not* a package deal; I could cancel the TV service and still pay $39.95/month for my theoretical 10 megabits per second. Folks in the next town over would have to pay close to $150/month to get the same service.
Despite my initial distrust of Charter (with Paul Allen being a major stakeholder and all), they have really done great for a humble guy living in the sticks. Now, I know people in France or China probably get 30 megabit download for the same price, but I feel pretty lucky considering where I'm at.
:q!
In a few cities that I've lived in, Earthlink.net rebrands the local cable carrier access and sells broadband-only packages.
I have Cable through Time Warner - and they allow me to have the broadband alone, and it only costs me 40 dollars a month. Now the question becomes is that competitive for the bandwidth I receive?
You have to remember that a lot of times you subsidize those around you because of shared total bandwidth (though this may end with usage caps in the near future). I.E. if you're in an apartment in a big city with a bunch of tech savvy users all at the same C.O. then you might have very low bandwidth and your monthly dollar doesn't buy you much.
However if you live in a suburb with a lot of older, non-technically inclined people you may be hitting your download cap constantly and therefore get value for your money. This is usually because all those older folks who may have internet to send pictures to their grandkids are subsidizing your bandwidth by paying the same and not using it.
So I would say the real problem isn't necessarily the bundling (though that has gotten out of hand in some places) but that they don't sell bandwidth as a commodity to the home, and business costs for it are prohibitive for home users. So the companies that offer it pretty much assume the have to get it out of you somewhere, especially in heavily populated areas where the ratio of people vs. the bandwidth requirements is unpleasant for them.
I imagine the story in Manhattan is very different from, say, suburban Indiana simply because of the density of people.
- Brett
It's a phone line with no dialtone. They will assign a phone number to it but you can't dial out and can't receive calls. You can then get DSL over this dry loop from an ISP, at least we can where I live.
Or you have to modify, move, or simply request to be billed correctly for your service.
My ex spent (literally) seven hours on the phone with them because she moved and had service transferred to the new address and was promptly billed outrageously for "Early cancellation" as well as the new installation overhead. The final joke is that she was transferred between probably four different departments, and when she hit the fifth the woman said sorry and fixed the problem in less than five minutes.
You can get just the Cable and don't need any other services.
In fact while they were out here the ran the fiber to the tv and phone would go in, in case I decide to order it later.
Yes, I am very tempted to see what would happen if I would finish the last 3 feet.(it's under the house and not pushed up yet.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
No idea where you're living, but in Canada, naked DSL (DSL without POTS service) has a tariff, and therefore has to be offered.
You might have to press the customer service rep to look into it, chances are they don't get a lot of requests for it, and it's not in the teleco's interests to advertise it.
Sean
...and immediately after your promotion is over, you call them and get another one. Charter customers are eligible for a new promotion every 6 months.
And get Shaw high speed internet! I only have internet through Shaw. I get my local TV news, and hockey from some good old rabbit ears.
I live in Arkansas and have the Direct Elite 6Mbps service and my bills are EXACTLY $45.00. http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=11523
In my area (SLC Utah) There are a handful of wireless Internet providers. These guys put an antenna on your house and deliver your internet that way.
They don't offer all of those extra services, just internet.
Of course, then you get to deal with the problems of a wireless solution, but I imagine those problems have been getting less and less over the years.
--Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
In Victoria, BC, Canada, I just signed up for Shaw's internet service. I have my cell for phone, and do not paid for a land line. Shaw called me (on my cell) three times in the first few months about getting TV service until I told them to stuff it and remove me from their call list. BONUS - when you are getting internet and not cable tv, they need to activate the latter channels (100 -> 110 or so) in order for the internet to work, so you get those free, plus whatever your tv gets from normal antena reception. With that + the interwebs, who needs to pay for cable anymore?
I'm looking right now:
7 mbps cable Internet alone is $49.95/mo.
Basic digital cable TV alone is $68.00/mo.
VOIP for US/Canada/PR alone is $49.95/mo.
The only relation from Internet/VOIP to cable TV pricing is discounts:
Knock $7 off the Internet price if you also have cable TV.
Knock $5 off the VOIP price if you have Internet XOR cable TV.
Knock $10 off the VOIP price if you have Internet and cable TV.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You may want to see if you still have any local ISP's. I get wireless internet for 49/mo with a free public IP address. They give me 5Mbps down and 2 up...and I really do get about that...even during thunderstorms. You may have local DSL, cable, or wireless ISP's that can beat the offers from the big companies.
You don't even have to bug them too much. My father got verizon to install dry-loop DSL with little to no pain. It was when he tried canceling that the problems crept up. He canceled by phone, they still sent more bills, he canceled by certified letter, they sent more bills and threatened to send a collections agency and cut him off after not paying for 6 months. They were finally convinced that the service wasn't being used and he actually had tried to cancel after looking into their logs and noticed that his modem hadn't connected in, wait for it, over 6 months.
Is the asker just not bothering to look for himself? Pretty much every major US ISP has been named in the answers: comcast, verizon, at&t, roadrunner, time warner, etc. Since it seems to be something that everyone offers standard (for a slight premium), perhaps visiting his regional ISP web site would have been a better place to start than posting on /.
I had Brighthouse with all the channels and their internet service in St Pete,Fl.I was paying about $100.00 a month.Why,they were in direct competition with Knology.I moved to Knoxville,TN where I am under Comcast with digital,HDDVR and no premium channels(HBO,SHO,etc),and internet I am paying $160.00 a month.Why you may ask,no competition.
Telus and Shaw in Canada provide ADSL without the need for a phoneline. Telus only requires a phoneline if you sign up for their digital TV service (which does not make any sense at all) and Shaw requires you to have internet to get a VoIP phone (this one actually makes sense).
Bell Canada requires you to have TV to get broadband from them. Porkers!
Bow before me, for I am root.
Verizon only does it in select areas. Presumably the select areas where they got the most complaints, or legal action from local governments, I dunno. Point is, I can't get Verizon dry-loop where I live. :(
Comment of the year
I work as a installer for a wireless internet service provide and because the service is wireless then you don't have to have a hard line for the internet to work so you can bypass the telephone and cable companies for the same if not lower price then those providers. good example is that we charge 39.99 a month for unlimited service at speeds between 6Mbps to 15Mbps
Live life, don't let life live you
As a previous poster said, it's hard to answer without a location. In my area RCN has 1.5Mbit down and some smaller amount up for about $18/month + other fees.
I have Windstream's (completely unadvertised) deal called Greenstreak, their version of naked DSL.
Oh, I've seen the television advertisement for it, but I didn't know it still provided incoming calls. It almost sounds like what I've had for a long time--a landline with no assigned long distance provider--but for even less.
I've also been thinking about getting a twin-WAN router to have both DSL and cablemodem access. I like the 5 static IPs and domain hosting I get via DSL, but I don't get that with Time Warner Cable.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I've been with them for about 5 years. I have had 2 outage incidents that required AT&T involvement. The beauty is they coordinate all the work, none of that AT&T customer service phone hell.
They cover the bulk of the densely populated areas of California as far as I know.
Qwest offers DSL without phone service. Depending on where you live they have different speeds. Right now I'm using 7 Mbs for $46.99 a month.
In Portland, Oregon, I have naked dsl through qwest and use dsl-only as my isp. They're great, by the way. Static IP and no bullshit. Qwest didn't give me any hassle about getting the line set up, and the whole process took about 1/2 hour. Lucky me, I guess.
I live in a special corner of the armpit of America known as the Detroit Metro area. Why is it special you may ask? WOW, Comcast, and AT&T offer cable, internet, and VoIP in my neighborhood. I was talking to one of the Comcast sales guys. He said my neighborhood gets 'special' deals because the market is so tough. I was even able to renegotiate our current rate with WOW and had them throw in two extra outlets. 6Mbit connection, VoIP, Digital Cable, extra cable box - $85. I know that just a few miles away Comcast is charging $120 for the same thing. Why you may ask? WOW doesn't reach that far.
Is he strong? Listen bud, He's got radioactive blood.
This is simple.
If you are using DSL, cancel the landline phone. The telco uses the landline phone to figure out what C/O your in, once that's figgired out, the DSL circuit is installed, cancel the home phone. I did, and it works great. Home phones are not contracted, usually.
If you are using cable modems, you can cancel everything but the cable modem service, but beware, this usually means you pay a higher monthly rate. And before you say anything, screw you, I enjoy not paying 69.95 a month for basic cable modem if I also pay 40 a month for something else (tv) they offer.
What you want is available, but usually you have to figure out how to get it, and then be able to stomach the fact that since your not getting everything from the cable company, your going to be paying a higher rate than if you where, for the single or two things you do end up getting.
--Toll_Free
I initially ordered the Comcast triple play, then decided that my cell was good enough and that cable was a waste of money when I only watch one show, and I can stream it from Netflix.
So I cancelled the other two halves. They had no objection. I call them every 6 months to ask nicely that they keep my broadband price at the introductory rate so I am not tempted to switch to DSL. They have been very obliging.
I have the same service. I am happy that AT&T is finally offering DSL without a phone line. The prices are only $10 more per month.
Because it's always been that way where I'm at. I had CableModem with no cableTV in 1996, one of the first networks in North America to deliver broadband. DSL came a few years later. That marked the last time I had broadband and a telephone at the same time. During that entire time I never subscribed to CableTV. I did for a time have a Sat TV receiver.
CableModem, DSL, landline, cellular phone, TV ... I've never had two off that list from the same company at the same time, in 12 years. Currently the DSL company offers every single item on that list if you want it, from one provider; if you are willing to go with a competitive cell provider, you can do hispeed, tv and telephone (VoIP) with your choice of three providers (cable, microwave guys, and some-other-antennae-thingy kind guys).
Currently I'm on DSL with no landline 5 down/768 up $23/month. Cellphone is $30 a month on a package that works well for my habits ... on vacation I might run it up to $40. That's it ... no TV since all I watch is sports anyway. I do have the TV and watch movies whenever. Televisions are so much more useful without actual TV channels on them, I find.
Either you have to needle someone into telling you the truth, no matter how much it hurts (them), or you have to threaten to switch providers.
The more the other guys can do as far as all the options (even though you are planning to do just one, or whatever) the bigger threat you're moving is to your potential as a source of revenue. You might be thinking "I'm taking my $30 cable bill and walking", but they will be thinking "he's taking a potential $120 cable/internet/telephone/security system/cellphone/long distance/phone features bundle and walking".
If they stil won't give you what you want, then turn on 'em and start switching back and forth to competitive providers, always taking the maximum incentive the very nano-second you are eligible to drop your last incentive-laden obligation. Where I am, that's every six months, and basically what happens is the cost of whatever you're consuming goes down by about 40% (would be more, but fees swallow some of it back).
They all will want to leave the equipment there, in case you change your mind later, so mention that it's OK with you if that's "more convenient" to them. Also, switchers get calls from the old provider offering special deals that no-one else hears about. When they offer, I always say I hate the new guys and want to go back to you right on dudes as soon as my obligation is over. And we're pals again. Sames script works on both (or more) of 'em, too.
There is an answer to this.
Broadband without the pork is a big issue in Australia, due to rising telephone line rental charges by telephone companies - people are paying extra for something most Internet users essentially don't want.
ISPs have now begun offering something called "Naked DSL". As the name implies, it's DSL, but naked - meaning the telephone service has been stripped, leaving only the Internet service. The beauty of Naked DSL is it's cheaper - take a look at the cost analysis here.
From what I can see you'll save at least $10, because you don't pay monthly telephone fees, and you still get your broadband Internet.
Oh, you'd have to be insane to do business with people who blatantly lie to you before you buy their internet. Speakeasy specifically told me I could run my line at 100% capacity 24/7 if I wanted. I thought they might be lying, so I made screenshots of the chat, which I did under an assumed name so they wouldn't know it was me. Guess what happened? First they said I was downloading too much. Then they gave me specific numbers (200G/mo or 100G/mo, something like that). Then they terminated my service. Then they tried to threaten me with the early termination fee, saying they'd waive it if I didn't talk about what happened online (yeah right)... whole chat is here.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
I got dry-loop DSL through AT&T.
I don't think that means what you think it means. It sounds like you got "naked" DSL. If you were able to get a dry pair out of an RBOC in the last 5 years I'd be seriously surprised. I dry pair is simply a bare copper pair, with no repeaters, from one location to another, usually cross-connected through your local switching station. It's used typically by the alarm monitoring industry (well, not so much anymore, but it used to be) and people trying to use DSL equipment to make a point to point connection on the cheap across town.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
mcmonkey, meet context. Context, this is mcmonkey.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
Speakeasy specifically told me in pre-sales chats that I could run my DSL line at 100% capacity 24/7, then later harassed me saying I was downloading too much, then after that said "100G per month or you're terminated", then after that terminated me. Then they threatened me with a $300 early termination fee if I didn't talk about it online (yeah right). Then it took a few months to get the money they DID owe me back.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
You can get Verizon Business FiOS without having to sign up for either TV or phone service. They charged me $30 installation and $100/mo for 20 mbps down/5 mbps up service. This includes one static IP. Their 20/20 option costs $140/mo and includes, I believe, three static IPs.
If you live in Australia, try iiNet. They have ADSL2+ where the others don't, and give you some of the largest caps (they also increase the size of your cap if you pay an extra $10 for VOIP).
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
I have Comcast internet service but not TV service or a landline phone. What's the problem?
Cox charges $3/mo extra for internet only - vs internet + cable TV. I paid that extra $3/mo for several years on principle (no TV). Finally, Cox offered basic phone + internet for a substantial discount - and I took them up on the offer.
"However, it seems that all broadband access providers have this stipulation, that an internet customer must first have a basic phone or cable TV service in order to sign on for the internet service."
1. Sign up for landline service with someone else.
2. Sign up for internet.
3. Cancel the phone service.
That's if I'm reading you right that they're simply demanding you have a landline because they want less people loading their networks with Skype, etc. and then bitching when they don't get the level of service a telco promises on an internet connection.
Alternatively, if your issue is they'll only sell you all three (Phone/TV/Internet) together, I'm guessing you're probably not reading their advertising correctly. Just because they'd like to sell you all three together and their ads focus on that, it doesn't mean unbundled isn't available if you ask for it.
Time Warner desperately wants to sell me all three together, especially as I used to have Time Warner cable TV but, when confronted with the simple reality I don't want to watch TV, they give in and accept the $29.99 a month they can at least get for selling me something.
Even better, their robodialer isn't very intelligent and will call you for all deals once you're in it for any reason. Every time they're selling individual packages, the idiots call me up and ask if I'd like cable internet for $29.99 for 12 months (as opposed to the $39.99 it defaults to). I agree. They realize I'm already a customer and aren't allowed to offer that but their sale agents are allowed to give me six months at the lower rate as an apology. Given they do this every six months or so, my internet bill is generally 25% cheaper.
Now if I could just get off AT&T U-verse's robodialer (repeated requests don't seem to have helped much). No matter what they try to tell me, one HD stream at a time, disconnecting any other HD stream you might be watching, is not true HD to up to four TVs around your home.
Get them to run a dry pair to your house and you get a dsl without even needing to pay a phone bill for the line.
Phoenix, AZ: Cox will sell you cable internet (alone) for ~$45/month. IIRC it's 10/2 (Down/Up), but that those numbers are also shared with your neighbors.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
well at least I think they still do. You used to have to get basic cable (around $8) with their broadband package, but i just got signed up for 5 mbps service at 20/month for the first 3-6 mos ($60) afterwards... still much cheaper than their bundle at 120$/month.
As much as I hate to recommend Rogers, you can get their Hi-Speed internet service w/o any cable services with no additional charge. At least in Ontario.
Dry DSL is offered by many ISP's, but you have to pay a fee around $10-15/month to Bell in addition to your ISP fees if you don't get a land line phone.
When I lived in Hungary in 2001, I called Chello and asked for a cable internet connection, and told them that I did not have TV and did not want one at all, so no HBO or local TV. They said fine.
Then their techs showed up and told me that the company had no way to prohibit people with net access from seeing the broadcast and they installed a splitter for no charge or bribe and told me to "enjoy". Well I guess I was one in a thousand who did not want TV but wanted the net.
So what I am saying is that there might be a technical issue with this. A similarity is cell phones. Even though I make/receive 2 calls on average a week, I am not sure I could actually could get GPRS/EDGE without the phone service.
That is not to protect the providers, I really do not want TV (and could happily be without a phone) but want net, and THERE MUST BE A WAY to have a service.
But then again, if they say that is the package, that is the package, so what can you do ?
I've got charter 16Mbps down for $49/month with nothing but broadband. And it's not just a six month promotion period. :)
I called and asked about dry loop with AT&T here in Chicago, and they confirmed it and said it was an extra $10/month, in addition to whatever broadband charges I pay. That's almost more than I'd save by switching, so I didn't.
No thanks.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
In most cases, asking for a dry pair gets blank stares. But if you ask for an alarm circuit from your house to a local ISP, they usually catch on pretty quick.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
My grandmother lives JUST outside the city limits (on the other side of the "little stone bridge" past Noyo) and not only can she NOT get city water/sewage, but her phone service is spotty at best (non-existent if the weather's crappy).
There's very little cell signal coverage, she's not close enough to ANY form of DSLAM to qualify for DSL, and with all the trees (that she can't cut down due to county regs) she can't get satellite service of ANY kind.
You'd think that, in this day & age, in a location less than a mile outside the city limits, a person could rely on proper water/sewage/phone service, but not in Fort Bragg.
Granted, Gram doesn't mind her WebTV via dial-up connection, because ALL she ever does is email, but even SHE complains that AT&T "sucks rancid bilge water" as far as service is concerned.
Because the phone company(ies) have been telling her "it's not economically viable to extend service into your area at this time" since the early 1950's.
=/
I use dsl in Minneapolis from Qwest (no landline, but an imaginary 'number' for them to associate my account with), and had Comcast cable Internet in Dakota County without the TV part of the gear or the bill. Ironically there was an 'open' Comcast wireless point somewhere in the area that had much higher throughput than I did. Go figure, so I shuffled my downloads (300 GB/month) onto the open line and kept Comcast's crappy (but bought and paid for) service for Vonage and the more mundane stuff. (And, yes, I would check the open line through a second computer and there was always plenty of bandwidth even with 10 pipes open full tilt through Giganews, etc. I was not interested in depriving someone else of their use at all.)
There are more than 4,000 independent, wireless ISPs in the United States. None of them requires you to have a phone line or cable to hook up. And many serve areas where there's no other broadband. See http://www.wispdirectory.com/.
Just like a newspaper, the cable companies sell local commercials. If you subscibe to basic cable, the cable company can charge more for advertising because of subsciption rates. Would you pay to advertise your company on local cable if no one subscibed to it? They charge only a couple of dollars more because they make up the difference elsewhere.
I just pay for internet services. Of Course, its still cable, so I have to pay any related fees.
"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive...it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it..."
Charter Cable offers cable modem without cable service... it costs about $10 more than it would WITH cable service, but the cheapest cable service available is $20, so it's a net savings.
I just moved and used to have the dreaded Comcast & don't want it again. Verizon doesn't offer FIOS in my area and we're not close enough to the city to get the new Sprint WiMax. I sniffed the neighborhood for WiFi & it looks like our Jehovah's Witness neighbors don't get service & the trailer down the road may not even have electricty! I feel stick with Comcast & don't really have the $$ to spend on cable & internet. So any suggestions for Joppa, MD would be great! Thanks :)
Both companies offer internet access without requiring voice or TV service to be purchased.
If you decide to buy two of the three services in their "triple play" packages, you may as well buy the third service since it typically only adds about $5.00/month.
Microsoft bundles office the same way. If you buy word and excel, you may as well buy the suite since it doesn't cost very much more.
Companies do this to get you hooked on all three services, and statistically triple play customers "ISP hop" much less than a la carte customers.
-ted
Here in Chicago I pay RCN $17 a month for their slowest cable modem. As a side benefit I used to get basic cable for free until they went all digital. Oh well. $17 a month for 1500kbs up and 379 kbs down isn't bad.
Besides, that's not what happened. Your devil's advocate is -1, Off-topic at best.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
I've had TimeWarnerCable without paying for TV service, but as it sucked I changed to Verizon DSL.
In SoCal at least, Verizon offers DSL without phone service, and the price is the same for the DSL whether or not you have phone service. I did have to sign up for one year, but I'll probably be here for a year in any case.
DSLreports.com is that-a-way ->
If I was interested in reading n00b threads from that site, I'd log on to it.
Edith Keeler Must Die
ATT in Tennessee offers DSL without the crap. It makes me smile.
I thought the quasi-web standard for other languages was a little flag in the corner. Not a solitary link buried in the mix that just says "Welcome" without any context.
Here's the English version: http://www.ilesansfil.org/welcome/
I guess false advertising is okay as long as it's not in the contract, huh? BTW, when I sell my house... If you want to buy it, it comes with some free whores. I promise. ;)
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
...they all can, but the choose not to.
I'm using Time Warner ala Road Runner; but they still have that "we'll make it cheaper if you get phone or TV", neither of which I want. (And the DTV conversion will just turn off the noise from the air-waves.)
But, yes, they all CAN provide it at competitive pricing without that additional service clause. Hmm...may be someone needs to sue them for collusion since they're all doing it and justifying it as 'competitive' because that is what everyone else is doing. Wonder what would happen...
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
It depends where you are. Here in Slovenia you can get VDSL internet without TV or phone service.
Price:
1/1 Mbps - 22 EUR/month
10/2 Mbps - 29 EUR/month
no hidden costs.
Unfortunately it is available only in close vicinity of the phone central.
(small test, ignore : ÄÅžÄOEÅŽ)