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Microsoft's Thumbtack, an Answer To Google Notebook

Posted by timothy on from the portal-of-calls dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft's Live Labs have introduced a new service that lets users collect snippets of information from Web sites and share the collections with others. It's similar in concept to Mozilla's Joey, a defunct project that let people copy and paste portions of Web pages onto a single page that they could access from their mobile phones or another computer. Thumbtack is also like other available services, including Google Notebook. But Thumbtack developers think their service has a difference. 'Thumbtack stands apart in its ability to introspect on incoming data in order to automatically classify it and extract structure from it using machine learning,' according to the FAQ about the service."

107 comments

  1. Re:All those long words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, but I'm judging you and thinking you're stupid. Damn. Keep the change, kid.

    Semper Games.

  2. I think an important question here is... by woot+account · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does anybody really use services like this? I'm only vaguely aware of the Google Notebook feature by virtue of accidentally clicking on it from time to time.

    So, if you use it... how/why?

    --
    By what name do you wish to be mourned?
    1. Re:I think an important question here is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I've never used Google's Notebook, but lately I have increasingly found myself in the situation of needing such a feature.

      Currently though, I'm using a combination of 2 Firefox add-ons: Read It Later and Evernote. First for quickly adding to a tray pages that contain some useful/interesting one-time read info (browsing, mainly). The second, to help me keep my wish list organized, searchable and comparable. Eventually, I get to make an informed decision on what to buy if or when the time comes.

    2. Re:I think an important question here is... by Arancaytar · · Score: 5, Informative

      When I have something interesting to paste or write down, and am too lazy to start up my text editor, I use Google Notebook.

      The disadvantage of the text editor is that I can only rarely remember what I named a file if I was in a hurry. The notebook lets me search and even preserve markup and images. Basically, Google Notebook is the text editor for the Lazy.

    3. Re:I think an important question here is... by trawg · · Score: 1

      I started using TiddlyWiki ( http://www.tiddlywiki.com/ ) for stuff like this. Its basically a .html document with magic javascript so it acts like a wiki. It's obviously only useful if you carry it around with you - Google notebook would be more useful if you are going to be online all the time. But it's pretty handy.

    4. Re:I think an important question here is... by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Fundamental difference being that a Google Notebook is globally visible. So, if you're collecting a bunch of random information on, say, Illinois furniture transactions, you can do a little while seated at Location A, and a little more while seated at Location B.
      That is, so long as you're comfortable with the increased possibility of others peeking into what you're clipping into the notebook.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    5. Re:I think an important question here is... by jonaskoelker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > When I have something interesting to paste or write down, and am too lazy to start up my text editor, I use Google Notebook.

      Let's see: (C-M-c is xterm, thanks to xbindkeys)

      C-M-c v i C-j i S-ins ESC : w q
      1     2 3 4   5 6     7   8 9 A

      C-t n o t e b o o k . g o o g l e . c o m
      1   2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A FAIL

      Do the math ;)

    6. Re:I think an important question here is... by Elektroschock · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But why would you want to get the same tool from Microsoft?

    7. Re:I think an important question here is... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      It is good for saving bits of text you want to save but can't be bothered to open notepad or something else.

      To be honest I can't see myself using it for more than that but that is a nice thing to have.

    8. Re:I think an important question here is... by DSmith1974 · · Score: 0

      Google Notebook is probably the most useful web app around, any notes I can make at work on new utils, languages, regexs etc. I like to make on Notebook, this will now pay dividends since the Motorsport industry is collapsing and we'll all be out of work in a few months yet my research won't be confined to a skip and I'll be able to pick it at my next job so long as they give me a browser and access to the web. Two things Google Notebook could really do with are a proper keyboard interface (try to use it without the mouse - it's barely possible and very painful) and backup with Google Gears (yes, you can export to a Google Doc and gears it from there, but you get a new doc each time, really!)

      --
      It is not immoral to create the human species - with or without ceremony, Samuel Clemens.
    9. Re:I think an important question here is... by cyclocommuter · · Score: 1

      I use Google Notebook quite a bit... more for saving online bookmarks so I can reference them at work or at home. In this way it serves a purpose similar to online bookmarking sites such as Delicious. I do save actual clippings of webpages from time to time.

      You could set-up multiple notebooks and categorize entries per notebook. You could also use Google to search entries in your notebooks. I actually find Google notebook more useful than Delicious for saving and searching bookmarks which I could then access from multiple PCs.

    10. Re:I think an important question here is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'll do the math if you do the sociology: no-one in their right mind uses incomprehensible shortcuts over relatively straightforward and user-friendly GUIs. You can bind keys to xterm and type away in obscure shorthand until the cows come home, but it's just not a viable solution for the rest of the world.

      Also, Google Notebook is accessible from a Firefox plug-in:

      leftclick leftclick C-v leftclick
      1 2 3 4

      But go ahead. Continue to use your paradigm, and I'll use mine.

    11. Re:I think an important question here is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...machine learning...and Microsoft...doesn't that make you cringe? ;-)

      Wasn't clippy in this realm? ...I see you are trying to save a web page. Shall I open a text editor with a fancy name, for you? (Including DRM to ensure that you aren't accidentally referring to something Microsoft thinks you shouldn't) et cetera...

    12. Re:I think an important question here is... by patro · · Score: 1

      Is there way to extract the data in a structured format if I want to move to an other service. If so then I'd use it. Otherwise, no.

    13. Re:I think an important question here is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For evil notes?

    14. Re:I think an important question here is... by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to get it from Google? Why would it matter who you get it from if they're all the same?

    15. Re:I think an important question here is... by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      > But why would you want to get the same tool from Microsoft?

      I wouldn't. Who said I would? I was answering the question of whether and why I use a Notebook service.

    16. Re:I think an important question here is... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      OMG... *thinks of a giant chain-driven clippy, with a M$-logo on it, rolling at you, over a hill of skulls, firing his huge plasma cannons*

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    17. Re:I think an important question here is... by peater · · Score: 2, Informative

      A Google Notebook icon sits in your Firefox status bar. You can select text on any page (including images) and click a button and it's saved to your google notebook along with a reference URL. You don't need to go to notebook.google.com every time.

    18. Re:I think an important question here is... by shadwstalkr · · Score: 1

      As an alternative to having one file for each note, you could just paste stuff in a new Tomboy (Voodoo Pad) page and let Beagle (Spotlight) index it so you can find it later. Better yet, install the Beagle extension for Firefox and you don't even have to copy stuff. It will take you straight to the page that had the text.

      This is specific to Linux or Mac. I don't know if Windows has similar tools.

    19. Re:I think an important question here is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      C-t note [ooh, auto-complete!]

    20. Re:I think an important question here is... by JKuruvilla · · Score: 1

      I use Google notebook a lot , as a firefox extension - it is the best tool to bookmark sites for later review with the ability to attach a note to it. It comes in handy when you want to save a site you stumble upon while looking for something else . Also it is very useful as a central storage of URLs to take links from one computer to another.

    21. Re:I think an important question here is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use Google Notebook all the time. The FireFox extension gives me a link in my status bar to my notebook(s) so they are only a click away.
       
        Each notebook has a rss feed so I have my notes on my PDA as well which has proved very handy.

      I almost never use it for saving snippets of websites which the summary seems to imply is its primary feature.

      Uses:

      • one notebook per project to store feature requests and to do's
      • general purpose notes likes phone messages, driving directions, recipes, and sundry info trash

      Where I hang out:

      FireFox, HomeSite, MS SQL, Visual Studio, Google Notebook, RTCW Enemy Territory.
       
      So Google Notebook has become a very primary application for me.

    22. Re:I think an important question here is... by ShannaraFan · · Score: 1

      I use it all the time, most frequently to save recipes that I find online. I do a lot of cooking, and like to try new recipes. If I stumble across something interesting, I'll save it to Google Notebook. The "sections" feature works great for grouping stuff into categories, i.e. "Deserts".

    23. Re:I think an important question here is... by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 1

      Even better, use ccTiddly: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cctiddly/

      It's tiddly with a PHP/MySQL backend. You can access it from anywhere and don't need to carry anything with you.

      You could just use Google notebook, of course, but I find that I can organize and display information much more compactly on a tiddly wiki.

    24. Re:I think an important question here is... by trawg · · Score: 1

      nice, thanks! I was looking for something like that

  3. Fire up the copiers Redmond! by Aranykai · · Score: 5, Funny

    Seriously. Whats next? Windows 7 will feature a task bar at the top of the screen with a magnifying shortcut bar at the bottom of the screen?

    --
    If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    1. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by fluch · · Score: 5, Funny

      And someone in Redmond reads this post and thinks: "Hmmm....!"

    2. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by gilgongo · · Score: 1

      Exactly. If I worked for Microsoft I'd be friggin' depressed. Do they have no originality or desire to be innovative AT ALL?

      --
      "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
    3. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      You're right Microsoft invented everything which is why GUIs never existed before Microsoft.

      In fact computers were known as typewriters before Microsoft came to life.

      I'm glad you're setting the record straight and if these people don't listen then throw your chair at 'em!

    4. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do they have no originality or desire to be innovative AT ALL?

      They've done lots of innovative things.

      Embrace, Extend, Extinguish was born in Redmond.

      They regularly come up with new & improved ways to suck up computer resources for pointless OS tasks just to stimulate PC hardware sales.

      Before MS, did anyone else ever destroy international standards?

      They created the windows button.. its the best invention ever.. its so much easier than moving your mouse a few inches & left-clicking.

    5. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by jerep · · Score: 1

      I thought Microsoft gave up on thinking ever since they invented Clippy. The company looks more of a marketing-monkey farming house these days.

      Come to think of it, they sound like my little 14yo brother who have to get credit for anything he can think of. Kids these days.

      --
      Do you D?
    6. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by morari · · Score: 1

      How about tab browsing in Windows Explorer? Put an end to this "open in new window" and "open in same window" debate! No longer will My Computer and the Control Panel be in separate windows!

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    7. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fire up the Microsoft hate speech! Give me a fucking break. Steve Jobs takes a dump in your face and you guys would lick it up regardless if he invented it first. Same for any open source project sans the rock star status. I haven't been on slashdot for a few months but I can see I haven't missed anything...

    8. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by sdpuppy · · Score: 1

      [MS has ] done lots of innovative things. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish was born in Redmond.

      Never heard of those -

      Is that like "Stop, Drop and Roll" ?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop,_drop_and_roll

      (Or "Rescue Alarm Confine Extinguish/Exit" ?)

    9. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're right Microsoft invented everything which is why GUIs never existed before Microsoft.

      If you think I even implied MS invented the 'taskbar' concept, you are either a fool or your tinfoil hat is on too tight.

      My example was about a feature MS 'effectively' already provided, yet the browser 'fanbois' pushed for the tabs to be placed inside the browser like all the other neato 'browsers' were doing.

      This was to illustrate that MS is often forced to copy crap because fools decide they want crap. PERIOD.

      The brower 'tabs' is an example of regression to MDI interfaces that MS and most other modern GUI companies have gotten away from because the OS should manage document to document and view to view, not the application. Windows already let you hotkey between them, Windows already provided previes of the 'pages/tabs' open, etc. There was no need for this to be recreated at the application level.

      I guess the whole UI regression was lost on people that still think putting tabs 'in' the freaking browser instead of on the taskbar actually makes things easier.

      Here is how it works in the real world - users learn how to click the taskbar and alt-tab and all their little tricks on whatever OS they are using. Now with tabs in the browser they are back to MDI concepts of the early 90s where they have to learn Ctrl-Tab to flip tabs and other 'new' keystrokes, and for that they get more wasted screen space for the same crap.

      If anyone is 'paying' attention to Windows7, one of the features of the new taskbar is to burrow into IE so that even if you have multiple tabs open, they show on the Taskbar, just like they use to going back to Win95 and the original IE. They literally have to code to pull the 'tab' images out of freaking IE just to get the same functionality back.

      MS didn't invent anything, but what they were doing was more on track than the insane tab 'logic' that geeks forced on users and shoved MS to add to IE, as even they were getting knocked down in reviews for 'not' having this feature, when it WAS NOT NEEDED - all this, even though it is a flawed UI concept and cumbersome at best.

      With crap like this and the 'new' 3D desktop patent from Apple it is enough to scare the hell of people like myself that actually work with the psychology impact of UI design. With regard to Apple's 'silly' 3D Desktop patent, there is a reason the same project never got out of MS Research back in 1999, it offers few features and a lot of complexity for the user. However, Apple will probably shove it down their users throats and they will click ten more times for the same thing to happen and love it.

      Before the OSS and Apple 'UI Innovations' are done, everyone will be using MS Bob or an MDI in an MDI for everything. Heck, crank out an old copy of MS Works, it will be a revolutionary idea again.

      Geesh...

    10. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by alecwood · · Score: 0

      I guess the whole UI regression was lost on people that still think putting tabs 'in' the freaking browser instead of on the taskbar actually makes things easier.

      Maybe for some people (like me) it is. Maybe it's just an is2ue of personal preference, not some significant evolutionary stepping stone, so don't get so het up about it.

      --
      Real happiness lies in the completion of work using your own brains and skills.
    11. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by spitzak · · Score: 1

      Tabs are automatically aligned with each other to occupy the same screen space. That is a big difference from separate overlapping windows. Also Microsoft was using tabs in some programs (especially the IDEs) for quite awhile so it is rather difficult to claim they wanted the taskbar to be used for this purpose.

      The taskbar really replaced the "iconized" of windows that was used by earlier Windows and copied from Unix desktops. The taskbar *does* have one of the major Microsoft innovations however, the fact that the "icon" did not disappear when the window was "deiconized". All popular previous systems had (at least by default) the idea that a window was switched between the "icon" and "window".

      I do agree with your hate of MDI, but MDI was a development by Microsoft, all previous systems I ever saw kept each document and the control panels in different windows. They initially did it to make it much less likely that another application not being used would be swapped in (since the MDI enforced a single rectangular area that was controlled by the foreground program, and users could move the subwindows without exposing any of another app's window). However they kept at it because of their stupid decision to make click always raise a window (which pretty much means overlapping windows are useless). This stupid decision was copied by Linux, unfortunatly. Try a really old Unix such as Irix to see how it should be working.

    12. Re:Fire up the copiers Redmond! by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

      Tabs are automatically aligned with each other to occupy the same screen space. That is a big difference from separate overlapping windows.

      Not when the browser windows launch at the same place 'by design' on top of each other.

      Also Microsoft was using tabs in some programs (especially the IDEs) for quite awhile so it is rather difficult to claim they wanted the taskbar to be used for this purpose

      Sometimes there are places tabs do make sense, browsers are NOT one of them.

      You mention an IDE, it is a good example of where tabs can work for debugging views, and also flipping between code 'within' a project, especially when you are not even dealing with the same type of code or content in each file. (It would be insane to have separate windows opening up for Form code, XAML code, C# code, VB code, HTML pages, and everything else that can be mixed into 'ONE project'.

      There are hundreds of 'good' examples 'tabs' work for the UI; that doesn't make it RIGHT for everything.

      but MDI was a development by Microsoft,

      Ok, now you are giving MS too much credit here. MDI was not a MS design concept, but it something they used a lot during the 80s and early 90s.

      However, as you would have noticed around 1995 when the new UI and document centric models of Win95 were coming out of MS, they even 'restructured' their own MDI applications, and Word adn Excel retained the MDI for people that wanted it, but the applicaitons also started to be allowed to run separately, and let 'Windows' INSTEAD of the internal application 'window menu' manage multiple open documents.

      If something like MS Office applications can work better with 'One Window' per document, why would a browser be so 'big and cumbersome' that it would need a new internal UI metaphor to manage the pages?

      (Yes Excel has 'workbooks' still with tabs, but this is one document with multiple pages, not multiple documents managed by the tabs.)

      Microsoft even did away with 'Office Binder' as it was an application level 'bundling' of Office documents, as the OS and folders provide this functionality without an artificial application level application doing it.

      Microsoft has been literally shoving old world geeks into better UIs for years, and they still have a lot more shoving to do. Heck even concepts from Win95 that are easier and faster are things old school geeks still don't user or even 'get'.

      One Example: Right-Click New and other ways to have your own document templates are far faster and more powerful than pre-Win95 concepts. Yet, even to this day I see brilliant geeks dig into the start menu and launch Word to create a letter, instead of creating the letter via the 'New' menu or a template and opening the new blank document. As a side effect, Open and Save dialog boxes should almost NEVER be used inside an Application unless you are saving changes and need to rename the document, and even this is a bit of a dated concept. (And this is all stuff introduced to users in the Win95 era, and yet people are still working with documents and applications like they did in Windows 3.x or even older OSes.) - Sad, very sad...

  4. IE Addon vs. Firefox Extension by skaet · · Score: 3, Funny

    From TFA:

    Thumbtack works in Internet Explorer and Firefox, but it lacks some features when used in Firefox, Microsoft said.

    So the Firefox extension lacks the "Share" or "Publish" ability, right?

    --
    There is no knowledge that is not power.
    1. Re:IE Addon vs. Firefox Extension by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      Thumbtack works in Internet Explorer and Firefox, but it lacks some features when used in Firefox, Microsoft said.

      So the Firefox extension lacks the "Share" or "Publish" ability, right?

      Especially when used in Firefox in Linux or MacOS I expect...

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
  5. Awww by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oh, how cute! Clippy's got a cousin.

    Thumbtack stands apart in its ability to introspect on incoming data in order to automatically classify it and extract structure from it using machine learning.

    I bet Thumby's classification of information works just as well as Clippy's classification of my current action.

  6. Copy and paste websites? by ustolemyname · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Wholesale copying, pasting, and sharing of websites?

    I thought Microsoft was against the "theft" (infringement) of Intellectual "Property" (assets).

    1. Re:Copy and paste websites? by WTF+Chuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Only when they can't harvest info to make a buck with.

      --
      Note - Liberal use of <sarcasm> tags may or may not need to be applied.
  7. Thumbtack? by unkaggregate · · Score: 4, Funny

    So does that mean their product is a pain in the ass?

  8. OF the things you COULD have replied to... by sunwolf · · Score: 1

    ...why would you choose to reply to Google Notebook?

    1. Re:OF the things you COULD have replied to... by AnalPerfume · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft have woken up to the threat of Google, and the fact that Google have caught Microsoft with their pants down on several new revenue models. They assume "if Google are doing it, then we need to". Every competing service they do, to try and take share away from Google fails. They want to buy Yahoo (or parts of it) to buy that marketshare where they failed to get it with their own services. They seem oblivious to the fact that their products and services have to be forced on people, that most people don't choose the Microsoft service when they do have a choice.

    2. Re:OF the things you COULD have replied to... by Psicopatico · · Score: 0

      Can't wait to Google to relase the so much rumored Linux based GoogleOS then...

      --
      Mastering the English language is fucking easy: all you have to do is to put an f* word in every fucking sentence.
    3. Re:OF the things you COULD have replied to... by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      Goobuntu? I thought that was only a private released...

  9. Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by nysus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FTA: "Thumbtack works in Internet Explorer and Firefox, but it lacks some features when used in Firefox, Microsoft said."

    Microsoft just doesn't get it. If you can't get your service to work with all major browsers, your service is going to be seen as inferior, not the browser.

    And apparently, Microsoft thinks people like being forced to use their software. Well, guess what? They don't. They resent it. It's not 1999 anymore. People now understand AOL is not synonymous with the Internet and Microsoft is not synonymous with software.

    --

    ---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.

    1. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by Arancaytar · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Most people.

    2. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by stephanruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

      FTA: "Thumbtack works in Internet Explorer and Firefox, but it lacks some features when used in Firefox, Microsoft said."

      This makes no sense. The code is already there to make it work on firefox. There are probably five or more extensions that do this kind of thing on Firefox, and some are already superior to Google notebooks. They should just use that code (at least for the client-side), and stop trying to reinvent the wheel

      And for some that might say that the license might be a problem, think again, most extensions on firefox are not encumbered by restrictive open source licenses, and like I said, there are plenty to chose from, so it's very likely that Microsoft finds one that's just right for them.

    3. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by darrylo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree.

      Google Notebook is also the wrong target. While it's useful, I think it's something of a niche feature these days, as other online services seem to be passing it by. Even Google buries it in the "even more" submenu.

      If Microsoft really wanted to get noticed, they should have taken the organizational and editing features of OneNote, and combined them with the distributed synchronization and text/image/online/offline searching of Evernote. That would have been a killer product.

      I used to be a Google Notebook user, but I'm now a 100% Evernote fan. I took everything that I had in GN, and dumped them into Evernote, which is something like a personal google. Nowadays, I don't use tags. I let the note text and web snippets be the defacto tags, and just do text searches. I even moved all of my del.icio.us bookmarks into Evernote. (Sharing/collaboration can be an issue, as notebooks are either 100% private or 100% public -- you can't just share to a few people.) Evernote also works on PCs, Macs, web browsers, and the iPhone.

    4. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

      Microsoft just doesn't get it. If you can't get your service to work with all major browsers, your service is going to be seen as inferior, not the browser.

      You mean a site like Slashdot?

      Statements like this are quite silly and a bit paranoid, especially when you consider that the site you are posting it on offers features to Firefox that it denies to other browsers.

      Using IE on Slashdot you lose a lot of features for very basic reading and commenting on the site.

      It is almost like Slashdot is programmed for IE6 or some even older crap, as things don't align properly, and they are specific IE code nudges that are just badly coded. The site shows better if you tell Slashdot you are running Mozilla even when viewing it with IE7 or IE8.

      So, continue your rant about how sites are viewed as inferior...

    5. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft just doesn't get it. If you can't get your service to work with all major browsers, your service is going to be seen as inferior, not the browser.

      Meh... people who have rejected Microsoft's browser aren't likely to use many of their web services anyway. So they are losing less than it would at first appear.

      That said, I avoid Google's services like the plague... they get enough information about me from my use of search, plus the tracking they do via their ads, plus all the sites that use their analytics... I'm not about to hand them anything else if I can avoid it.

    6. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by dword · · Score: 2, Informative

      That was a misunderstanding.

    7. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by Elektroschock · · Score: 1

      Maybe the whole Microsoft tool is a 60 000 Eur investment or a "Oh, you coded that?" or a "So we also acquired that Notebook tool..." or made for some corporate functionality checklist, you know, no one likes Ballmer to throw a chair.

      Still, Microsoft is looking for the "don't do evil" technology licensing. It is really hard to get that stuff.

    8. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by eebra82 · · Score: 1

      And apparently, Microsoft thinks people like being forced to use their software.

      Microsoft may not have the best reputation, but they aren't ignorant.

      Having said that, no one is forced to use Microsoft's software. Microsoft simply requires IE to get the full feature set for Thumbtack. That doesn't make it incompatible with FF.

      I have a few issues with this decision, but I certainly don't think it's wrong. No one is forced to use Thumbtack; there are alternatives to it.

      --
      Full Tilt
    9. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by tom1974 · · Score: 1

      Your position of defending Microsoft at every turn and opportunity is actually quite silly and paranoid, even childish. Microsoft has clearly done this time and time again. X feature works on all platform except it works better on latest MS platform.

      For a long time now, there are websites that work only correctly on IE or you couldn't even access a site without using IE.

      Besides your meek attempt of a straw man setup and whining, why don't you use Opera, Chrome or Firefox instead? Webmasters have no obligations to cater to a particular browser.

      I guess the tables have indeed turned.

    10. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by sci50514 · · Score: 1

      Well, Google is the Internet.

    11. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by Joe+Jay+Bee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Webmasters have no obligations to cater to a particular browser.

      If this was said about Firefox, I'd be able to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth from a million miles away. Won't fly.

      --
      I write bullshit
    12. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by jez9999 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft just doesn't get it. If you can't get your service to work with all major browsers, your service is going to be seen as inferior, not the browser.

      Tell that to Google. Google Maps has had this bug in Google Maps for YEARS now that causes printing in Firefox to be broken (because Firefox actually does things correctly), yet to look OK in IE6 and IE7. Do people think Google Maps is inferior? Hell, it doesn't work AT ALL in Opera.

      --
      == Jez ==
      Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
    13. Re:Microsoft will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

      Webmasters have no obligations to cater to a particular browser

      My response was to a poster blasting a web site for doing exactly this.

      So you agree with my post then? Good...

      PS The Microsoft 'troll' paranoia is a bit scary. The usage of IE in my post was specifically because of Slashdot's problems with it and the fact the OP was blasting a Microsoft site.

      My freaking post was made from Firefox even, geesh...

  10. Re:Saline Scrotum Swelling, a Slashdot Solution by unkaggregate · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Congratulations. In the 5 years I've been on slashdot this is the weirdest troll post ever.

  11. Clippy? by squidinkcalligraphy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Even the thought of office stationery in relation to Microsoft brings back those horrible nightmares...

    --
    "I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
  12. Slashdot will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by Ostracus · · Score: 1

    "And apparently, Microsoft thinks people like being forced to use their software. Well, guess what? They don't. "

    Apple, Apple, Apple. Now what was your argument again?

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    1. Re:Slashdot will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by SevenSpirits · · Score: 1

      Yes, people do apparently like being forced to use Apple's software. It seems that Apple has captured a good portion of the "want to be forced to use a certain brand of software" market segment.

    2. Re:Slashdot will Remain Second Rate Player on Web by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      orly?

      I'm reading this on firefox on a mac. All the features of firefox are working.

      Also I *don't* have an iphone because I don't like the carrier and app lock in aspect.

      GP has a point.

  13. Coming soon... by arotenbe · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft Thumbscrew! The product guaranteed to make you scream in agony! Now with even more boneheaded user interface design decisions! Order now, and we'll somehow work in DRM and the Internet Explorer rendering engine, too!

    --
    Tomato wedge sperm darts that are Republican.
  14. not new there either, most likely ;-) by Trepidity · · Score: 1

    Google's services all also, of course, "introspect on incoming data in order to automatically classify it and extract structure from it using machine learning" -- for the purpose of serving up contextual ads.

    --
    10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
  15. soup.io by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did it better and earlier, browser independent, open, without ads, following web standards and altogether being a worthwhile experience.

  16. Re:All those long words by WTF+Chuck · · Score: 4, Funny

    Funny, I thought all those long words meant, "We are searching your notes so that we know what advertisements to cram down your throat."

    --
    Note - Liberal use of <sarcasm> tags may or may not need to be applied.
  17. Super! by ZarathustraDK · · Score: 1

    Eh...I meant superfluous!

    --
    If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
  18. Why is this not Silverlight? by Nycran · · Score: 1

    This may seem like a silly question, but why did Microsoft use an AJAX setup for this instead of using Silverlight? I thought the whole point of Silverlight was for RIAs? Have they lost faith in Silverlight already?

  19. Re:Saline Scrotum Swelling, a Slashdot Solution by iammani · · Score: 2, Interesting

    May be someone should try to steganalyse these trolls. I cannot believe, there is a guy typing so much content, which is of no use for anyone reading it or himself.

  20. Is Google Notebook being discontinued? by exhilaration · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I wanted to know what Google Notebook was so I went to the Wikipedia entry. It says, "Google Notebook was announced on May 10, 2006 and made available May 15, 2006. As of late 2008 however the service is a candidate for being terminated due to lack of demand[1]."

    The citation is missing. Can someone verify that this is true? Why is Microsoft competing against a project that Google is dropping?

    P.s. Can someone who knows more about this topic fix the Wikipedia page? Thanks!

    1. Re:Is Google Notebook being discontinued? by darrylo · · Score: 1

      The citation is there, and points to the WSJ. It mentions that two of the projects with uncertain futures are Google Notebook and Google Audio search.

    2. Re:Is Google Notebook being discontinued? by Leto-II · · Score: 1

      For some reason the reference doesn't show up, but it is there if you look at the wiki source.

      http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122826503489174369.html

      --
      Do not anger the worm.
    3. Re:Is Google Notebook being discontinued? by windsurfer619 · · Score: 1

      Er, you quoted the [1] that clearly points to the citation.

  21. I can't help myself by Jay+L · · Score: 1

    Don't call it a thumbtack!
    It's been here for years.

  22. Don't NEED to remember the name.... by macraig · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Have you heard of Google, I presume? You know what its primary service does, right? Did you also know that you can apply that index-and-search paradigm to locally stored content on a single personal computer? No fewer than two (actually many more) products have actually done it:

    Microsoft: Windows Indexing Service and Windows Desktop Search
    Google: Google Desktop Search

    With these devices, when properly installed and used, you don't need to remember the name of a file: all you need to recall is some relevant fact about the file, whether it's a snippet of the file name or something from within its (textual) content.

    Believe it or not, Microsoft's product is actually far more effective at this task, once all the available third-party "IFilters" are installed on top of it. On my system, WDS recognizes and indexes text and hints from about three times more files than GDS, which amounts to literally hundreds of thousands more files.

    In this case, at least, it's Google Desktop Search that performs more poorly at the primary task. Google wasted too much effort on the froofy "widgets" and other unnecessary crap, and apparently failed to open up the spec so that interested parties could create the equivalents of IFilters for it.

    1. Re:Don't NEED to remember the name.... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      I do not trust local installables from google.

      sorry.

      I'd never run a 'toolbar' from ANYONE (sheesh) and their local search gives me the creeps.

      no thanks.

      google is 'ok' for internet things but my local pc or system is MINE and not to be even SEEN by the likes of a google.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Don't NEED to remember the name.... by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      I use Google Desktop.

      I also use Google Notebook.

      Believe it or not, searching for something in Google Desktop can take more than a minute on my computer. It just isn't worth it when another service is far faster and I'm always online.

    3. Re:Don't NEED to remember the name.... by macraig · · Score: 1

      I didn't mention Google Toolbar; I have little trust for any browser toolbar. That is a distinct product that does not have the same purpose. Why are you trying to muddy the conversation with non sequiturs?

    4. Re:Don't NEED to remember the name.... by macraig · · Score: 1

      As I said, I found Windows Desktop Search to be much more functional than Google's. Much as I hate having to set my anti-Microsoft dogma aside ;-), this is one that Microsoft got right and Google didn't.

  23. Clippy's cousin's nickname by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, now that I think about it, the more symmetric analogous nickname is probably "Tacky."

  24. Forget Thumbtack and Google Notebook--Evernote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no connection with Evernote other than as a satisfied user. This is a great web notebook and data collector.

    In fact, maybe I shouldn't spread the word. All of you stay with Thumbtack.

    1. Re:Forget Thumbtack and Google Notebook--Evernote by decavolt · · Score: 1

      I'll second (or maybe 5th, since I've seen other posts above) Evernote - http://www.evernote.com/

      "But Thumbtack developers think their service has a difference."

      Yeah, MS always says that when they're 2+ years late to the idea party.

      Evernote is super simple, syncs to my machine for offline access, has mobile access, takes input from photos (the iSight on my MacBook is great for this), accepts new items via email so I can email cell phone pics or notes... and it has built-in OCR on every item.

  25. Microsoft's answer to...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does Microsoft do so much answering? Is that the behavior to be expected of a company that so constantly whines 'get the Law off our back so we can innovate!'?

  26. Interrobang!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After watching the OSS world

    The feature in question did not come from he OSS world.

    rip off the Dated Win95 taskbar concept for years, this is kind of a strange UI concept to suggest MS would be copying next.

    The idea or which MS got where?

    hint: see the beginning of this comment.

  27. What about OneNote? by piltdownman84 · · Score: 1

    Microsoft already makes OneNote, which is has alot more features. I just don't understand why they would want to fight Google with a half baked product, which competes with one they sell.

    1. Re:What about OneNote? by peater · · Score: 1

      I guess it's because OneNote is more of a desktop app that saves data locally and is commercial (I am not personally aware of any EASY option of storing OneNote data remotely - although I wouldn't be surprised if there is one). I guess the fight is for free and generally useful, stripped-down, online applications that would prove useful to the masses which would, in turn, allow Microsoft to generate ad-revenue and direct users to other service offerings like search, etc. just as Google has been doing for very many years. Thumbtak won't compete with OneNote and even if it does, at this point, Microsoft really doesn't seem to have a choice BUT to compete in the online applications domain lest it be left faaaar faaaaar behind and be forgotten. And like Google, Microsoft may even provide corporate versions of their online apps which provide better collaborative features.

    2. Re:What about OneNote? by VTBassMatt · · Score: 1

      I am not personally aware of any EASY option of storing OneNote data remotely - although I wouldn't be surprised if there is one

      Sharepoint. (Not that Sharepoint itself is easy... but once you have Sharepoint set up, it's really easy to use OneNote with it.)

  28. One Note 2007 by Chees0rz · · Score: 1

    If this is being integrated with Microsoft One Note (i love this program) with some sort of online sync functionality, then I would love it. As far as needing to go online to have a 'note book'... no thanks. I really just want a local client that syncs to an online accessible arena... much like outlook and its web ui...

  29. I call BS.... by gweihir · · Score: 1

    "Can magically extract the meaning for you" is impossible today. Machines cannot even come close to being able to classify website contents to a degree that helps you, unless you are a complete moron. But in that case you cannot understand even the classified results.

    Why does this BS keep cropping up? AI is not there. It is not there by a very long shot, to the degree that we do not know today whether it will ever get there. A short investigation into the state of the art of AI reveals that to anybody halfway competent.

    My conclusion is that at least some of the involved MS people know this fully well and are simply lying. Amoral scum.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  30. Re:Saline Scrotum Swelling, a Slashdot Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worse it appears to be instructing you to microwave water for 5.5 minutes and then inject it into your scrotum!

  31. Re:Saline Scrotum Swelling, a Slashdot Solution by nog_lorp · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is how Al-Qaeda communicates. There, I typed Al-Qaeda so this will be thoroughly analyzed by some sort of government agency.

  32. Leave it to Microsoft... by Nybble's+Byte · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...to come up with a silly name like Thumbtack.

    But I'll be happy to put a thumbtack on Ballmer's chair.

  33. "ability to introspect on incoming data" by BitterKraut · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't that read 'ability to inspect on incoming data'? I couldn't imagine a way to introspect on incoming data unless I happen to be the incoming data myself.

  34. This wil be in the release codenamed "Macbeth" by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

    By the pricking of my thumbs
    Something wicked this way comes!