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With Olympics Over, China Re-Censors Internet
eldavojohn writes "We last left the story of Internet censorship in the People's Republic of China when the IOC had reached a deal with the Chinese government whereby some of the press restrictions were lifted. With the 2008 Olympics now but a memory, China has began censoring foreign news sources again. Maybe the West is making too big of a deal over this, as many Chinese citizens seem to like it that way."
Somehow, I find that suspect.
Happiness in slavery.
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An hour later, and they're hungry for censorship again.
They don't like it this way, they just know better at this point. It's like hitting a dog with a stick anytime he goes to get a snack from you, eventually he won't go get the snack even if you aren't carrying a stick. The dog learns not to like snacks, because who knows if you are hiding a stick somewhere. It's just safer not to like snacks. The chinese people are tired of being hit with sticks and are afraid. It's fear, plain and simple.
Maybe the West is making too big of a deal over this, as many Chinese citizens seem to like it that way.
Many US citizens liked slavery, once. And not letting women vote. The fact that only a minority is being oppressed doesn't make it not oppression, and it doesn't make it right.
I'm sorry if it makes you feel awkward to take a stand on basic human rights, but when it comes to issues of rights and ethics, not all viewpoints are equally valid.
Then again, I rather suspect you knew all that. I suppose I've been trolled.
In America, people complain when the government starts censoring the news. In Soviet China, people complain when it stops.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
The IOC must learn that there is no long term positive effect of allowing a totalitarian government to host the olympics in exchange for agreements that are slowly implemented and quickly removed, just as the western countries have learned that when the IOC makes such a mistake it is wrong to respond by boycotting the games.
I think it can compare to when you first wake up or come out of a dark area. At first all of the light hurts your eyes and your initial reaction is to shield yourself or go back to the darkness.
It has to be a slow transition to open information flow or it will be overwhelming.
Who want to bet that the chinese department managing the "wall" used the time to refurbish & update their equipment
As far as most Chinese are concerned their government is great. For more than a decade the average Chinese citizen has seen there lot only improve. Naturally the government there is taking full advantage of this by giving themselves all the credit. Thus to many in China it seems that the government is doing a great job, and who are they to argue with success?
It won't last though. There's a generation of children being born who will take economic prosperity for granted. It's the nature of humanity, and by that same token they'll want more than just that. With economic power in their hands they'll want political power, and that's when the government will be in trouble.
What do the people seem to want (according to the quoted survey)? A more reliable source of information, and who should ensure the internet is "more reliable" other than the state?
"Since the only legitimate source of authority in many aspects of Chinese life is the state, when Chinese citizens are of the opinion that some aspects of the internet should be controlled, it is natural for them to assume that the state should take the lead in doing the controlling."
The censorship we're seeing is (IMO) wrong. The survey seems to be being misrepresented in this context. Or rather, the people's wishes are not being reflected in the way the censorship is being condected...
Oh arse
Apparently, they're glad to be chained to that wall.
I have heard people complain about things like spam and porn on the internet and say "Why doesn't the government do something about it". If you frame the question properly in the US I bet you would get a surprising amount of support for government censorship.
Not to sound like the Chinese who "like it that way", but I don't think a complete censor of Chinese news broadcasts to America would effect me in the least. I suspect the same major stories (Free Tibet, the major Earthquake, and the Olympics) would have aggregated into the American and British news sites that I read... and that's all that I really need (or want).
However... I sincerely believe that long-term diplomatic relations are needed with China to prevent any potential future pissing contests like what America had with Russia during the Cold War. So long as these tensions are kept in check, I'm happy to basically shrug off the Chinese news equivalents of what I see on American news everyday (i.e. weather reports and mostly insignificant filler).
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More like:
Toe the "Party Line" or find yourself "Dissapeared" in short order.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
China‘s Andy Rooney Has Some Funny Opinions...
I sort of wish I could at least find a news source or three that doesn't try to sell me the news by adding all sorts of ridiculous sensationalism. I just want facts, researched, well-written, reviewed, facts.
Perhaps a socialized news service that doesn't get paid by the paper or the advertising hit? NPR doesn't count because it also has its bias (left).
I was there during the Olympics and had internet access through a residential hookup. There was a lot of censoring going on: for example, URLs containing "blog" were generally not accessible. It was clearly not related to what was on the blog, but a blanket thing.
Heh, merely a refusal to die for the freedom that created "the west".
And given how the media portrays the us, which is almost equal to "the west", who can possibly blame them ? You are americans, according to time magazine, you are oppressors, oil thieves, baby killers, prison rapists, invaders, torturers (of innocent terrorists) and worse. And no, they do not mean us soldiers or any president, they mean americans.
So why would anyone want to die to become the same thing ?
It's all a lie, obviously. Because otherwise they'd have to blame, oh, say muslims, for what ... muslims ... did. But everybody knows perfectly well it's a lie. Of course it just so happens that this islam thing really does encourage the rape of children, after all a certain massacrer did so. But no, it's americans, the people who read this, who are monsters, who rape innocent iraqi girls in us prisons.
So nobody wants to die for freedom. And that's what it takes ... that's what it took even in America ... that's what it takes in China. Go talk to a Chinese kid, there are plenty in any college or university, and you'll see the truth in this.
Not with scorpions, but to thunderous applause...
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
If you have a government that is known to punish people for speaking out against it, and said government says it wants censorship, what are you more likely to say, "I hate censorship" or "I love censorship"?
I struggle to understand the counter perspective, but I think it has something to do with survival. You can choose the path of easiest survival - the least effort, or you can choose the path that might be harder for you. Given the conditions in rural China, it seems that any internet access at all is a luxury.
We have our own problems here in the states though. We constantly don't abide by our Constitution, preferring to look the other way for an easier time. Like Obama citizenship was never tested. Also 3 senators are being appointed to the senate without meeting minimum age requirements. We tax rather than cut back. Our problem is not with the control of information, but rather what we choose to listen to.
I might actually like not having more than one view. It'll avoid the annoying cognitive dissonance. It'll keep me ignorantly and blissfully happy, not knowing what we're doing is wrong. Its easier to close our mind than pursue the truth.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
"as many Chinese citizens seem to like it that way."
Particularly those who are concerned that the masses will learn how miserable and fettered their lives are.
"You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson
Bait and switch.
Like any idiot marketing or salesperson, they give you a good line to get you in on their crap and then switch it afterwards. Nothing new.
So what if China sensors the internet? So does Saudi Arabia, our ally and nothing is said...and they do not allow women to drive..and women must always seek permission [from men] to go out.
This reminds me of Iran.
We (the USA), supported a dictator in Iran but when the people rose up and forced him out, installing their own dictator we did not like, we branded them evil.
Ca anyone tell me that the USA does not censor the internet in anyway? That is...one can get anything on the internet from anywhere in the USA?
I doubt it. Now do not tell me it's not government policy because the end result is the same.
Guns N' Roses! Chinese Democracy! Free Tibet! Taiwan is a sovereign nation!
/. is censored.
Just wanted to see if
Oh yeah, also that Moe haircut from the Three Stooges is seriously out of date.
When you constantly worry about where your next meal is coming from, you tend not to care about 'trivial' things such as 'the internet' and censorship.
And that's not meant to be an insult. It's a sad, unfortunate truth that has been manufactured by their government. I've had Chinese friends throughout my university years, and I can't count the number of times I got little other than blank stares when talking about Tiannamen Square. Then they see the pictures and the footage, and _that's_ when it really gets scary -- I would say the reactions were half and half.
Half were disgusted that their government would commit such atrocities, and it really hit them personally -- most Chinese people are tremendously patriotic, and to see what happened there really shakes their foundations. Some of them were brought to tears.
The other half? Well, their reaction was more like, "tough shit. They were out of control and they shouldn't have been protesting there, the army did the right thing."
The right thing. By running over an unarmed guy with a fucking tank, among other horrors, they did the right thing?
It's no surprise that they enjoy being censored by their government because they're almost unwilling to accept that their government can do any wrong -- and why should they? Their government, as horrible as it is, has managed to turn China into what is perhaps the most economically sound of the Asian nation. Hell, half of what runs the Western world (e.g. computers) are _made_ in China. They feel superior, and they feel their government is superior as well. It might be hard to understand, but just as much as they believe Tiannamen Square, Tibet and the Falun Gong are all better off having had government "intervention," they also believe that the government is "right" in censoring them.
Yeppp... slaves like to be slave, hostages like their kidnappers, hookers are in love with their pimps. Please...
Don't feed the trolls (which I acknowledge that, in a break from form, I am indirectly doing here) and for god's sake, sure as hell don't mod them up.
You know, this $#@! is getting old. I come to Slashdot because it is, or maybe was, one of the best -- in fact, one of the only places -- to find fairly intelligent discourse on the net. But increasingly I have to wade through more and more stuff like this. It's getting to the point where I don't immediately go to a story until the trolls and the "frists" have had time to be modded down below my threshold. Is it maybe time to reexamine the posting policy? Because it seems to me that this garbage is getting worse.
Ya, be careful what bus you get on..http://http//www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/06/16/death-on-wheels/
That sinking feeling deep in your gut when you KNOW you screwed up bad summed up with: {head desk} {head desk}
... but for a different reason. I, too, find these numbers suspect, but not impossible. If you are told from birth that this is the way things are supposed to be, you are likely to believe it.
It's not just Chinese. US citizens seem to enjoy having their rights violated as well. They reelected Bush, most of those responsible for the PATRIOT act are still in office, etc. etc. As long as the government provides bread and circuses, nobody really cares about rights. That's the same for the East and West.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Just wait until the London Olympics. We'll show the Chinese. Ha, they don't even have 5 million security cameras. Amateurs. Hadriansfirewall will kick your Greatfirewall's ass.
Comrade Gordon "the Butcher of Woolies" Brown-shirt, and Leader Jacqui "Winston" Smith will show you the way.
I would like it that way too, if my alternative was to be picked by the police and never heard from again.
Internet Retail spaces are wonderful. Get over it!
You seem to complain about media laying blame for whatever bad thing at the feet of Americans, but immediately you do the same thing with Muslims. If you think that 'the other side' is doing something wrong, then I hope you see that you are making the same mistake as they are: making a complex situation easy for yourself by blaming the people you do not associate with for anything that you perceive is wrong with that situation.
Care to justify your assertion that they don't like it this way? Your own beliefs regarding free speech, etc., are not valid justification for what other people may believe.
As hard as it may be to believe for jaded Americans, the majority of the Chinese actually approve of and trust their government. I say this because it seems in America, people whine and bitch about being forced to choose the lesser of two evils, whereas in China people generally tend to be content with whoever Congress deems suitable to elect.
Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
You are missing one bit: the dog is convinced that the stick is good for it.
After RTFA, I think the Chinese people are voicing legitimate concerns, it is very typical of /. to skew the study. The great firewall of China is like our government's "Do not call" registry in here, and there're no exception cases. Instead of requiring each and every operator to filter unsavory things, phishing, spam, and defamation, it is done by the government. The government on the other hand also added a big list of speech it considers illegal, but it seems the participants of the study wasn't really focused on those. The Chinese people wants the government to be the guardian of morals and civility as well as being a reliable source of information on the net. That's what that 85% means. It has little to do with censors that quiets down political speech.
Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
I do not blame muslims for everything. I merely state facts.
Does islam encourage the rape of children ? Well here's the description of what the paedophile prophet did to a 9 year old he had bought :
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.298
You know that islam actually has content. It's not just a name. Being a muslim means considering this a virtue. This act is as influential on muslims as Jesus' not throwing stones was on christians. Of course the paedophile prophet has his opinion on the matter.
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to the Jews and said: What do you find in Torah for one who commits adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hand on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. Abdullah b. Salim who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. Abdullah b. 'Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/017.smt.html#017.4211
But don't take that from me, the one about paedophilia in islam, after all Carter's best friend, ayatollah khomeini, put it so much better :
http://www.shariati.com/messages/1608.html
He is, after "Hitler's mufti" (google it) of course, the most influential 20th century imam.
Please explain how any of this lays "blame for everything" at the feet of muslims. I merely state a few facts of their moral system, nothing more.
That you are afraid of the truth is your problem, not mine. Facts are facts. These facts don't change (that was, after all, the purpose of writing them down). That they're "inconvenient truths" and quickly end any discussion about whether muslims should be allowed to carry out "religious duties", even among muslims themselves*, does not change them.
* many muslims, obviously, want out. But that carries the death penalty in the paedophilic religion.
Keep in mind that Islam has an actual printed ideology that tells it to trash other civilizations.
The government can't save you.
I think it can compare to when you first wake up or come out of a dark area. At first all of the light hurts your eyes and your initial reaction is to shield yourself or go back to the darkness.
So it like that bright shiney thing in the sky. I saw it once. I hate that thing.
Hell, we just voted one of them into the white house.
Also, there is no Chinese "people." There are Chinese individuals, and they are most definitely not the government. They are its victims. You might want to look into organ harvesting to see what's going on over there.
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The bright face it hurtses us.
This is not the funny you're looking for.
Whine Whine Whine...
If you were in other countries you could get imprisoned or killed from saying that. While I do appreciate people keeping an eye on our rights to make sure they don't slip away quietly. However when you are a in a country that doesn't guarantee (or even respects) freedom of speech things like Open Source as free speech, or pornography etc... all seem like silly ideas. They just want to say Hey I dislike this government without getting killed.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The PATRIOT act was passed in 2001 by Congress. Obama was not in the Senate until 2004. If you meant Joe Biden, it would be more accurate to say that "we just voted one of them into Observatory Circle".
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I do not blame muslims for everything. I merely state facts.
Extremists like you are exactly the same as muslim extremists.
You look for crazy, far-out interpretations of islam in order to justify hating them.
They look for the exact same crazy far-out interpretations in order to justify hating you.
Meanwhile, the vast majority of muslims don't give a damn about the batshit crazy stuff either of you come up with because (a) there is always more to the story than you guys are willing to present and (b) its obvious you guys are just grasping at straws to rationalize your own illogical beliefs.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Extremists like you are exactly the same as muslim extremists.
Comments on slashdot are "exactly" the same as continuous massacres. Do you seriously believe this ? I could say your comment insults me, therefore justifying me massacring your entire family. After all, "it's exactly the same".
Your comment insults me, for calling attention to the plain ruthless facts. I even point to primary sources. And you'd rather deny primary sources, because that makes the world so much more comfortable. And then you call me extremist, setting me on equal moral footing as a paedophilic massacrer for ... making a comment ? Are you insane ?
It's funny how you never actually challenge the facts. They just have to be different (or what ? you're going to cry ?). Of course you "just don't care". Making the point that assing about people unwilling to fight for their freedom that much stronger. People like you complaining about freedom in China is beyond ridiculous. If you were Chinese, you'd refuse to believe you don't have freedom. If you lived in saudi arabia you'd justify stonings, claim they make women more free. Because to do otherwise, would be "extremist".
You won't even believe that fighting for freedom is necessary. That's "extremist" nonsense. And most people "just don't care".
That last part might be true. But for all our sakes, I hope that it's not.
The truth is simple : you're a coward. Denying reality so you can "just not care".
You don't state facts, you're cherry-picking them. The claim that Mohammed had sex with Aisha at age 9 is disputed. Others have put her at 14 to 15. While this seems weird today, applying 21st-century standards to the 7th century is disingenuous at best.
You also conveniently ignore what Aisha did after Mohammed's death to advance the power of women in Beduin society at that time and that she is revered as a role model by millions of women around the world today. They probably all hate themselves in your view, right?
Not to mention that if you go by the evil things done by men in the name of religion, all religions are equally guilty. Fortunately, humans are good at compartmentalizing, religious people probably more so.
Your zealous focus on Islam betrays your hate.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
I'm sure that the re-education camps for those that disagree with the Chinese government too much have nothing to do with average person saying the government should control the internet too.
I suppose police likely have a little leeway with regards to how they charge people also. So if you're a cop and you bust a 15 yr old kid with a couple grams of weed broken up for distribution you could simply charge him with possession. Two years later when you bust him with the chiva you can pop him in the head.
If I lived in an overpopulated area where both education and law enforcement were difficult to apply because of the ratio of government to civilians, I would probably not mind this so much. Yes there are probably kids in china that get wrapped up in drugs and get popped without the same opportunity to learn from their mistakes that American children have, but if the child is uneducated (as often happens in America also) there is very little hope for reform and the Chinese just don't seem to have the resources to deal with that.
Hell, the US has an extreme problem reforming uneducated drug users, it's damn near impossible. Our answer during the eighties was the prison industry and 3 strikes laws.
China has ~4 times our population they killed 470 last year.
The US killed 43.
they killed about ten times more people than we did, but at the same time they have a 10% lower average literacy. Yes I know you can't just kill people because they are dumb, but dumb people do dumb shit and get popped for doing dumb shit more than smart people do.
Another way to look at this is to use an analogy.
Say you're a bouncer on thursday night and a fight breaks out, it's two guys. You restrain them as peacefully as possible right? Escort them out the door.
Friday night you've got some gangbangin' douche bags in there and suddenly you're looking at a fight with ten guys that are likely armed. Will you use the same methods on friday you used on thursday? Do you even care if it costs you your job? What if the next morning paper reads "Excessive Force! three patrons with broken bones sue The Analogous Bar and Grill". Do you really fucking care? If you were a bartender at that bar how would you feel about reading the headline?
Comments on slashdot are "exactly" the same as continuous massacres. Do you seriously believe this ? I could say your comment insults me, therefore justifying me massacring your entire family. After all, "it's exactly the same".
It is interesting that you equate extremism with massacres. Do you think all extremists desire the massacre of your family? Seems like you've given us all a good glimpse of just how fucked in the head you are.
Your comment insults me, for calling attention to the plain ruthless facts. I even point to primary sources.
Do you remember me? I remember you -- you are the OlAyOlAyPrICK. I've posted some fucking ruthless contradictions of your 'facts' in the past. Contradictions from primary sources. You bore me by never learning. Don't expect anyone to play your game once you've shown that you are just a broken record.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
If you read the report that says that 85% of those surveyed think the government should control the internet, it says, "This survey was funded by the New York-based Markle Foundation and directed by an internationally respected research team at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. As required of all public-opinion polling in China, either the survey or the surveyors must be approved by the government, and some topics that Westerners might have liked to see addressed directly, such as censorship, were not." How is any public survey useful if the respondents to the survey had to be filtered by the government?!?
Open Standards Portal
Lots of US "news sources" are garbage. So this is a double edged sword.
Or did you think the whole world cares about CNN's coverage of Anna Nicole Smith, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears etc.?
IMHO, CNN and Fox News both should be required to carry a banner (on TV and the intertubes) that says "For entertainment purposes only."
Question everything
don't open your eyes you won't like what you see
the blind have been blessed with security
I disagree with your reasoning. You quote things, then say they are true for every Muslim. Like an individual Muslim cannot have their own opinion on any subject.
The same can be said for Americans, but that still doesn't make it correct.
The American president says that same-sex marriage is wrong, guns are an important right, privacy is not (he should be able to look at everybody he wants in great detail, without their knowledge), America brings democracy where ever it goes and if he thinks your middle eastern village has a terrorist in it, he should be able to bomb it.
You know that being American actually means something. It is not just a name. Being American means that you consider these things a virtue.
In Socialist China government choose you
In socialist Canada, the government chooses itself.
Check out the six pages of license agreement for tickets for Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics.
Amongst a whole raft of prohibitions "...Ticket Bearer [shall not] engage in political, commercial, advertising or other promotional activities. Ticket Bearers may not ... wear or bring political, advertising or other promotional or other commercial items or clothing into a Venue. Entry to a Venue will not be granted to any Ticket Bearer who is wearing or carrying any form of political, commercial, advertising or promotional message. Religious and racial propaganda and demonstrations are prohibited inside or in proximity to a Venue perimeter. Violators will be subject to removal from a Venue without a refund... prohibited items and activities : smoking, broadcasting or recording through the use of cellular phones...strollers...food and beverages...prescription-strength medicines...banners, flags... signage of any nature, skis, snowboards, bicycles, balls, Frisbees, helmets (e.g., motorcycle, bicycle, sport, etc), and noisemaking devices..."
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
Not just that - it's not as if they asked a representative sample, either. The vast majority of all Chinese citizens (ethnic Chinese or not) do not even HAVE Internet access, and certainly have other things to worry about.
Those who "like it that way", by definition, are in the top few percent of Chinese society - the few (relatively speaking) winners that the system produces, in other words.
Even without the threat of repercussions, they will be much less likely to disagree than the average citizen.
Maybe the West is making too big of a deal over this, as many Chinese citizens seem to like it that way.
If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. - John Stewart Mill
no it doesn't.
Not a single argument raised. Ad-hominems, insults, "the past" ... obviously any references are "mysteriously" absent.
As for "playing my game" : you seem more than willing to. Personally I think idiotic, weak responses avoiding everything like yours do more to convince people of the truth than anything else.
And as for your last inquiry : no I do not remember you. Why, exactly, should I bother ? There are millions of idiots just like you on the internet. Most are more fun than you.
Muslims are the filthiest animals on earth (literally from the quran, 8:55, with "infidels" replaced by "muslims")
(do you think this - and by this, i mean by extention the quran - is racist ?)
Obama wasn't there for the first PATRIOT Act, but he was in the Senate for the reauthorization.
In July 2005, the U.S. Senate passed a reauthorization bill with substantial changes to several sections of the act, while the House reauthorization bill kept most of the act's original language. The two bills were then reconciled in a conference committee that was criticized by Senators from both the Republican and Democratic parties for ignoring civil liberty concerns. The bill, which removed most of the changes from the Senate version, passed Congress on March 2, 2006 and was signed into law by President George W. Bush on March 9, 2006.
And Obama voted YES. Next time check your "facts".
Your quote says the people conducting the survey or the survey questions are filtered, not the respondents. That's certainly bad enough, but it's not *quite* hand-picking the survey responses they feel like getting.
Not that I support Harper or anything. Who is actually also choosing himself by shutting down parliament.
Funny cuz it's doubly true :(
"Never allow the People to decide right and wrong, for the walls between are high and wide, and few can stand to risk knowing on which side they sit."
- Anon
(sorry to quote myself)
Where? Chapter and verse, please.
Sorry, but I'm going to have to agree with the other poster that you've simply missed out on the fact that the Chinese actually do *like* this system. If you had a time machine and took pictures of what happened at Abu Ghraib back to 2000 and asked most Americans what they thought of the events, they would've been horrified. Tell them that these were prisoners of war, and they might have been setting bombs that killed soldiers, and most Americans would have still been appalled.
Fast forward a few years until it's *our* government doing it, and patriotism / nationalism / partisanship or what-have-you has made a bunch of people wrap their brains around the notion that torture is good. Why? Because they love their country / their chosen ideology / their President or whatever, and they rationalize away any negative behavior as good. The Chinese people do the same thing. It seems to be a universal human quality that one takes pride in the group one is in and rationalizes away all bad behavior. So, I'm not surprised that the Chinese like it.
Plus, unlike us, they have been raised from birth with a values system that prioritizes social stability and harmony over individual liberty. 2500 years of Confucian thought doesn't just vanish with the modern age. China would never be the birthplace of democracy. It's just not a natural progression of their dominant social philosophies. Hopefully, they can learn, but they'll have to overcome far more inertia than the early American colonists did. FAR more inertia.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
wtf? Did you forget to take your anti-psychotics this morning or something? Damn, that was just a bad troll.
Muslims are the filthiest animals on earth (literally from the quran, 8:55, with "infidels" replaced by "muslims")
Thanks for an easy one. Anyone following along should take this as an example of "your game" - the one I referred to originally where you and other extremists deliberately misinterpret scripture in order to rationalize your mental disease.
You claim the quran says literally "Infidels are the filthiest animals on earth" - a phrase which exists in no english translation of the quran at all, not even the most extremist. A prefect example of the way extremists like you take scripture out of context.
[8:54] Such was the case with the people of Pharaoh and others before them. They first rejected the signs of their Lord. Consequently, we annihilated them for their sins. We drowned Pharaoh's people; the wicked were consistently punished.
[8:55] The worst creatures in the sight of GOD are those who disbelieved; they cannot believe.
[8:56] You reach agreements with them, but they violate their agreements every time; they are not righteous.
Surah 8 Al-Anfaal
So, here we have first an example of how the God of Moses punished the people of Pharaoh - because he broke his promise to the Israelites - and how those rules still apply, furthermore the line you tried to misquote refers to a specific battle with the Banu Qurayza in which the Qurayza were reported to have twice broken agreements of peace with mohammed's group. It clearly isn't racist, nor is it any justification for hatred the way you would have it.
And that is a typical example of why you are just a broken record of extremist hate. Go and bugger off now little hater boy.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
It isn't just China. Tell me where I can find Al-Jazeera's english channel broadcasting in America. Or the man arrested for rebroadcasting an Arabic channel in New York
Fuck China (the government, not the people).
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Hello from Shanghai. Too bad I didn't participate the survey that showed the majority people in china like the censor, I must say that I really hate the censor.
Me neither. I hope the coalition succeeds. But still funny, and I couldn't pass up the joke.
No, it is the Western illiberals, who seem to think so. Because, you know, there is no absolute evil in the world — with the exception, of course, for those people, who think, that there is — those must be fought tooth-and-nail... Growing up in the USSR and hearing about "progressive humanity" agreeing with Communists (and denouncing Capitalism), I was flabbergasted: how could they possibly be so stupid?
Yes, that's what I'm talking about... Who are we to judge, what's right — we have our problems too, don't we?..
And then, of course, there are uber-Conservatives, who "understand" the motivations of hitlers, stalins, and putins of the world and recommend, the US leaves their countries alone and stops preaching those pesky inalienable rights, that all people are endowed with — not just the US citizens.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
But but.. It's suggesting that not everyone loves our precious freedom giving democracy!
Americans: get the fuck over yourselves. You're not free, it's a damn delusion.
Here's a thought experiment. Suppose you're a Chinese entrepreneur given cash by a bunch of gullible Americans. You're an approved organisation which means you give results that won't annoy the Chinese government and cause them to pull your approval. Polling people is expensive. Do you 1) Poll lots more randomly selected people than the survey requires and cherry pick to the the politically correct results or 2) Make shit up, or poll a bunch of people who are politically reliable.
The survey is worthless.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Tiny little problem, but that alleged "crazy, far-out interpretation[] of Islam" is accepted by enough Muslims to register on the map.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Tiny little problem, but that alleged "crazy, far-out interpretation[] of Islam" is accepted by enough Muslims to register on the map.
Gee. What part of "muslim extremists" did you miss the first time around? Of course they fucking "register on the map" that's why we had 9/11. But that doesn't mean diddly-shit compared to the other billion or so muslims which don't subscribe to the crazy shit.
That's the funny part about mainland government's online poll. They ask you what you think about something, then when you look at the options, the options are all positives with different reasons or different level of positiveness. Plain useless. AND *funny*.
Some local governments of more modern areas (particularly Cantonese area) are better in that though. They actually open offical forum asking for suggestions about specific policies trying to gather people's view before making further decision, providing online discussion that officals actually read and take into consideration.
Jay effing Cee. If you don't like the practices of another sovereign state - which you US Americans have to realize, whether you like it or not, has every right to govern itself and make it's own laws - then DON'T buy their white goods and DON'T send all your manufacturing there. Easy. On the other hand, if you want good produced at a fraction of the cost that you seem to be able to do domestically, then just STFU! Effing hypocrites.
Did you know this is exactly what Plato wrote in Republic? Excellent post sir, I applaud your knowledge of philosophy.
Oh, I agree completely that the survey is worthless. But this is /., so I was being a bit pedantic. The quote the GP used didn't say that the respondents were picked by the government -- but it still gives plenty of reason to conclude the survey is likely to be seriously flawed at best.
As hard as it may be to believe for jaded Americans, the majority of the Chinese actually approve of and trust their government.
Sorry, but that is not a justification, that is apologia. I'm Asian too (though not Chinese) and I don't buy into this cultural relativism bullshit.
Some values are objectively good and others are objectively bad, no matter how many people support or oppose them. Democracy, pluralism, classical liberalism and free speech are objectively good, and not having any (PR China) is objectively bad.
Americans didn't make any moral relativist comparisons when they contributed to the liberation of Europe. The only reason why some idiotic Americans buy into this moral relativism bullshit now (and why you got modded up by them) is because of a pervasive malaise of postmodernist pseudo - intellectualism (of which cultural relativism is a part) that they are teaching them in some American schools these days. It willfully ignores the terrible atrocities committed by the Han-Chauvinist Chinese regime against non-Han people (and several Han people as well) using such nonsensical ideologies as a crutch, it's utterly disgusting.
By your logic, Americans shouldn't protest the ongoing genocide in Darfur, Sudan (presently funded by China) because the Janjaweed and their sympathizers are perfectly content with it.
Google for "Stockholm syndrome" if you don't know what it is yet.
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
If you don't adhere to the batshit crazy stuff in the Muslim world you are, for all intents and purposes, a murtadd (apostate) and are emphatically NOT a Muslim.
Gee then, I guess the billion or so muslims who don't buy into all of that tribal shit are going to be real fucking surprised tomorrow to wake up and find that they aren't really muslims.
Any fucktard can point out abuses of power, that doesn't mean those abuses are representative of a culture as a whole. If that were true, then you couldn't be an American unless you believed in all the crap that Bush has institutionalized in the name of anti-terrorism.
Most of the Chinese people I have known gave me the impression that they were either deeply apolitical. The others expressed sentiments that would be mistaken as sarcasm, or dismissed as flame-bait if ever expressed on slashdot. "That westerners are so blindly obsessed with democracy, free speech, free religion, makes you appear brainwashed in our eyes." (-a graduate student I know. I left out the inflammatory stuff.) To insinuate that Chinese people responding in these opinion polls do so out of fear, or because they are brainwashed or not in their right mind is a bit insulting. These polls do seem to reflect the honest opinion of a number of Chinese students I met in university. (An extremely limited sample, I know.)
It's not just Chinese. US citizens seem to enjoy having their rights violated as well. They reelected Bush, most of those responsible for the PATRIOT act are still in office, etc. etc.
Say what you will about bush, the patriot act, and american stupidity, they didn't vote for him BECAUSE he undermined our constitutional rights, they voted for him for other reasons, real or imaginary.
No one was saying "I'm voting for bush because I think it's good that the government listens into our conversations."
So no, we don't enjoy it. Just as the chinese don't ENJOY the censorship, they just enjoy not having their knees broken for speaking out against the censorship more.
Your post reminds me of a great poem:
Tell all the Truth but tell it slant---
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightening to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind---
--Emily Dickinson
I can't remember the last time I forgot anything.
How on earth can this kind of simplistic knee-jerk be modded "insightful". It's pure trolling. There's something odd about Slashdot when it comes to China issues as the replies seem extremely one-sided. Surely there must be a lot of readers with more nuanced views on the matter, but we rarely hear from them.
Could it be that Slashdot is doing its own censoring? Or is it the readers themselves?
I always wonder how far your oh so greatly valued free speech goes in the US, if you can't even say "fuck" on TV?
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.
If you think the US is any better, you're being fooled.
Luke-Jr
People talk about Chinese values and being different. What else would come out of people who are almost coming out of a mass manufacturing process run by the goventment under the name of education and training. Chinese culture is a great one, however todays China is a result of so called Cultural Revolution and feeds on wiping identity and Chinese culture from Chinese people.
In almost 50 years people are wiped out of their culture and identities and made to belive in their great government. Without such level of brainwashing (education and training) how can chinese govenment could stand against Chinese public? With all the economical problems, would you think chinese govenment would risk letting people realise what is going on?
Talk to any Chinese resident living in a free country and they will tell you what happened in tiananmen square was a bunch of misguided and mentally ill people causing problem.
Does islam encourage the rape of children ? Well here's the description of what the paedophile prophet did to a 9 year old he had bought :
islam encourages child rape as much as christianity encourages smashing babies heads against rocks.
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.
I can actually easily believe that the results are falsified. It is surprisingly easy to convince people that "freedom is slavery" etc, so long as one controls all the mass media outlets, thus effectively deciding what people see, hear, and know about. I've seen it successfully done in my country (Russia) - the present authoritarian regime does have the approval of the supermajority; given that China has much more stringent censorship of the media, I'd be surprised if the same didn't work there.
While I can agree on that, it doesn't mean anything with respect to GP's original assertion; namely, that the people of China are, on the whole, supportive of their (evil) government. Everything that I know about it - including talking to a few mainland Chinese - seems to support that assertion.
http://studentsfororwell.org/shirt/sos_shirt.png is far more effective :)
I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
back in the cold war, we would get defectors. I saw one who had just come to the piggly wiggly's in Northern Illinois. This was apparently not the first trip, but fairly recent. He was have a DIFFICULT time. I was told that it was common for these folks to be whiged out by so much choice. Yeah, ppl like not having to choose.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
hehehehe. Let me see. Who had control of the white house AND congress in 2002? Oh yeah; THE PUBS. ANd when was Obama in Office? 2005. And when was USPATRIOT ACT? 2002.
But I find it interesting that you pubs are working SO HARD to blast, FUD, and outright LIE about Obama before he has even started. Says a lot about pubs and patriotism.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You may be Asian in ancestry, but looking at your choice of words and even sentence construction, says that you are western educated and most likely a westerner.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
the majority of the Chinese actually approve of and trust their government.
And you actually talked to a majority of the Chinese? Or at least a representative sample? Under conditions where they would be free from fear of repercussions - and in a way that proved to them that YOU were not a government agent in disguise trying to lure them into a trap?
No?
Thought so.
Typical shitmind five hair style of argument. Even if the election of Bush was a bad thing, is stepping on shit once the same as living in shit?
If so, why no free election in China allowed? Stop telling lies, fucking asshole. I think you are a five hair from China, maybe you get paid a bit more than 0.1 euro per posting here? Go back to drink your san lu milk.
China's Andy Rooney Has Some Funny Opinions About How Great The Chinese Government Is
"Some of the guilty people say they are not guilty... ridiculous!"
I lived in Taiwan and Asia for 5 years. I know and interact with a fair number of Mainland Chinese now that I'm back. Many (most) have Masters degrees or higher and have lived in the US for 10+ years.
The thing I've discovered is they are extremely Nationalist. Because I spent most of my time in Asia in Taiwan and married there I get plenty of earful of how Taiwan (and Tibet) are part of China and how ANYONE who disagrees needs to be beaten up (literally, financially or otherwise) because China is a bigger more powerful entity than anyone else. (might makes right is the prevailing Political theory among the educated)
Nationalism in China is running at levels not seen since August 1914.
So it is not "Slavery = Happiness," But "Nationalism = Happiness."
The communists are really riding a tiger here. They are constantly stoking the flames of Nationalism and desperately dependent on Economic growth to give them legitimacy and allow them continued rule. So long as they can continue to step on the throats of smaller people (Tibet) and have money in their pockets it makes the people feel happy.
Anyways, there are whole volumes of books out there for those that are interested (Look up Tyranny of History (0140146776) to get started). Also ask the next Mainland Chinese person you meet outside of China what he thought of the French President meeting with the Dali Lama recently. You will get some very interesting answers.
No one was saying "I'm voting for bush because I think it's good that the government listens into our conversations."
Sure they did. It makes them feel safer that the government is doing something. In fact, many people so fervently wanted their rights violated that they accused people who didn't blindly trust the government of "hating america".
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
If only half the people voted and only half of them voted for W, isn't that only 1/4 of the people who like him? Seems like a small minority to me.
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Opinion Polls: Getting the results you want
Plato and a platypus walked into a bar. The barkeep looked quizzically at the wizened philosopher. Plato stated, "Hey, she looked better in the cave."
As a sysadmin of a news site I can attest they censored it the whole time, before, during and after the olympics.
Erik Dalén
Happiness in slavery.
More like ignorance is bliss. Hey, the Christians had Eden! The Chinese have the government.
You may be Asian in ancestry, but looking at your choice of words and even sentence construction, says that you are western educated and most likely a westerner.
I am neither. I was educated with ENGLISH as the primary language of instruction, which is not the same thing as "western educated". I was born, raised and educated in my home country.
I do consider myself as a general hesperophile, provided you define "western culture" as narrowly within the confines of laissez-faire capitalism and renaissance-era liberalism (ie not the imperialism that was a vestigial influence of European feudalism, or modern-day liberalism which, for the most part, is postmodernist voodoo and hocus-pocus imported to the US from the ideology of European far-left-wing revisionist nutjobs).
Actually it is you who is fooling himself. The US for the past 100 years has been heading down a bad path, and things are worse for liberty in the US now than they were before in many ways. We're still not a police state yet. From my experience, the bulk of the people in the armed forces and law enforcement aren't the types that would willing turn their guns onto the populace.
Oh, truth be told it would be easy to trick them into arresting a few "terrorists" but if you tried to do a full population control a lot of people would stop and say 'wait a minute'. I'm more worried bout a second civil war, using modern guerrilla tactics, than I am about the US suddenly becoming like China.
The thing about conspiracy theories is that the majority of them are wrong. Usually its the simplest explanation that is the most true. This is why a conspiracy theory about there being a second shooter in the JFK assassination isn't *that* crazy sounding, but aliens at Roswell brings up thoughts of someone needing medication.
Any fucktard can point out abuses of power, that doesn't mean those abuses are representative of a culture as a whole. If that were true, then you couldn't be an American unless you believed in all the crap that Bush has institutionalized in the name of anti-terrorism.
Not the same thing. This is the fallacy of moral relativism at work again on two grounds
1. Bush never committed active genocide. Muslims have, several times, in the 20th century (Armenia, Pontic Greeks, Bangladesh)
2. Nearly half of the US population opposed Bush. Not only that, they actively tried to undermine his authority and temper his insane ideologies and agendas. At every stage Bush met aggressive criticism and opposition. No such demographic exists in the Muslim world that actively undermines Islamic terror. All we hear are hollow condemnations of Wahabbism and Deobandi militancy. Nobody (and I mean nobody) in the entire Muslim world actively undermines their proliferation. Witness the recent terror attacks in Mumbai, and the active collusion of the Pakistani government in as well as the widespread approval of the Pakistani people (second-most Muslim population) of the attacks. Clearly, most of the Muslim world is on board with the terrorists.
Mind you I am an avid Obama supporter and Bush hater, but these two are the key false comparisons that lead liberal fools to make the Bush==bin-Lade comparison. I stopped buying into it when I grew a brain that went beyond the malaise of leftist brainwashing, and so should anyone who is capable of critical thinking.
You don't state facts, you're cherry-picking them.
Actually, it's the Islamic Ulema and the Imams who are doing just that. Given that they are the dominant authority in the Muslim world, it follows that their "cherry Picking" is the normative one.
All of the Islamic apologetics you see coming from academia and leftists are motivated by financial and political factors (kow-towing to a burgeoning Muslim vote bank in the west, and paid agents of the Saudi Lobby).
The claim that Mohammed had sex with Aisha at age 9 is disputed
No it is not. That is another lie from the Saudi Lobby you're parrotting. Numerous Muslim sources, including the Koran itself, as well as the most prominent Muslim scholars like al-Ghazali, have explicitly declared Ayeesha's age to be 9.
Muhammad's vile and barbaric pederasty is only one of his crimes against humanity. His genocide of the Banu Qurayza (which would serve to inspire Hitler to conduct the holocaust), his brutal enslavement and rape of Saffiya Bint Huyyay...
Look up the REAL meaning of the term ma-malakat aymanukum sometime.
Islam is simply barbaric. Barbaric beyond all reasonable metrics. Barbaric on a scale so horrifying that any modern-minded man of ordinary constitution will be committed to retch in agony rather than read a single Surrah from the Koran.
Not to mention that if you go by the evil things done by men in the name of religion, all religions are equally guilty.
No they are not. Islam has wiped out entire civilizations out of Africa, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, India and murdered millions on a scale unparalleled by any other religion in human history. All religions are most definitely NOT equivalent. That is a postmodernist lie.
Your zealous focus on Islam betrays your hate.
Why shouldn't we focus on Islam? I assure you that the Muslims are focussing on us, and quite hatefully, especially if we're Jewish.
...As required of all public-opinion polling in China, either the survey or the surveyors must be approved by the government...
Actually, it is even better than that. If you read TFA about the 85%, it says that the polling was performed over the internet... which is censored. So I am sure that all the votes will be completely honest and properly counted.
"A Pew Internet & American Life Project report indicates that of an overwhelming majority of Chinese people that believed the Internet should be 'managed or controlled,' 85% want the government to do this managing. This is resulting from surveys on Internet use over the last seven years in China.
Not the same thing. This is the fallacy of moral relativism at work again on two grounds
1. Bush never committed active genocide. Muslims have, several times, in the 20th century (Armenia, Pontic Greeks, Bangladesh)
Moral relativism my ass. You think America hasn't committed genocide? Furthermore, that is completely irrelevant to my point which was that nit-picking specific characteristics of a small minority and using them to define an entire group is typical innumerate racist idiocy.
No such demographic exists in the Muslim world that actively undermines Islamic terror. All we hear are hollow condemnations of Wahabbism and Deobandi militancy. Nobody (and I mean nobody) in the entire Muslim world actively undermines their proliferation. Witness the recent terror attacks in Mumbai, and the active collusion of the Pakistani government in as well as the widespread approval of the Pakistani people (second-most Muslim population) of the attacks. Clearly, most of the Muslim world is on board with the terrorists.
Get a grip. You confuse territorial conflict with an idealogical conflict. Mumbai and almost all "terrorism" in India is about Kashmir separatism. You might as well complain that muslims aren't doing enough to stop the LTTE. While at the same time ignoring that Indonesia - the largest population of muslims in the world - has been very successful at stopping the proliferation of terrorism.
capable of critical thinking.
Critical thinking can only get you so far when you are innumerate.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Moral relativism my ass. You think America hasn't committed genocide? Furthermore, that is completely irrelevant to my point which was that nit-picking specific characteristics of a small minority and using them to define an entire group is typical innumerate racist idiocy.
1. America has not committed genocide on the same scale as the Muslims have. Not by a long shot
2. Muslims aren't a "race". Stop abusing the term "racism" to smear critics of a barbaric religion of racism and hate like Islam.
Mumbai and almost all "terrorism" in India is about Kashmir separatism.
No it is not. It is about the supremacist ideology of domination and subjugation of infidels that is as intrinsic to Islam as antisemitism is to Nazism. It is about Jihadi violence as a tool for intimidation, and demographic expansion as a tool for supremacism and the establishment of a global Islamic order. Read the proclamations of Islamic militias in South Asia such as the Khaksars and Razakars (both extensively funded by Pakistan, neither had anything to do with Kashmir; also see Moplah Muslim Riots, the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, the 1984 anti-Ahmadiyya massacres, none of which have anything to do with Kashmir)
You might as well complain that muslims aren't doing enough to stop the LTTE. While at the same time ignoring that Indonesia - the largest population of muslims in the world - has been very successful at stopping the proliferation of terrorism.
LTTE are not Muslims, and I would say that Indonesia's Islam-sanctioned genocides in East Timor very much qualify as "terrorism" on a vast scale.
The poster might be thinking of Deuteronomy 13, which says to kill friends and family members by stoning if they commit heresy. Or maybe Deuteronomy 7, which introduces the idea of God telling the ancient Hebrews to exterminate seven "nations" (being careful not to interbreed with them) and have Him "destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed." Modern Christians thankfully don't interpret those passages as being in effect now, as I understand it.
Revive the Constitution.
There was that group of people who marched on Tiananmen Square carrying a Statue of Liberty, at the risk of getting shot. So would you agree that at least some small group of Chinese, at least in the recent past, fervently desired freedom? Given that modern Chinese know they might well be shot if they try such a stunt again, and that the Chinese government feels it needs to threaten, censor and monitor them, isn't it plausible that a substantial number of Chinese are tolerating the system mainly out of fear and hopelessness?
That is, if the Chinese really didn't mind living under a nominally-Communist oligarchy, why would their government go to all the trouble of running the place as a police state? The government could stop wasting money on censorship, because people would voluntarily avoid heretical sites like Wikipedia and refrain from criticizing the Party. There'd be no need to crack down on Falun Gong and Christianity, because people wouldn't join such movements. There'd be no need for the government to bother licensing pollsters or controlling the media as mentioned above, because people would say they like the Party without needing a gun to their heads. In summary, the use of force by the Chinese government is strong evidence that no, the Chinese people don't love it very much.
Revive the Constitution.
Sure they did. It makes them feel safer that the government is doing something.
No. Some people merely accepted the rationalization without thinking about it. Few people actually wanted it. That's a key distinction, as it's a key distinction that most chinese people likely do not actually WANT to be censored, they're just not violently opposed to it.
I don't WANT to get a cavity drilled and filled, but I'm okay with it because I accept the dentist's logic. People who accepted the propaghanda for the patriot act (let's call them idiots) didn't WANT to lose those freedoms but thought it was necessary.
Most of those same people would have much preferred that everyone of a certain skin color be executed rather than any of the constitution be modified, although they are loath to admit it. No one actually wanted to lose their freedoms.
Muslims aren't a "race". Stop abusing the term "racism" to smear critics of a barbaric religion of racism and hate like Islam.
Standard innumerate deflection. You were set up for it - the term racism applies to cultures not just singular ethnic identities. Come back when you can address the issue of nit-picking minority positions and ascribing them to the entire group.
Read the proclamations of Islamic militias
Further innumeracy. No fucking duh a bunch of militants are going to be looking for extremist interpretation in order to rationalize their actions.
LTTE are not Muslims,
Biggest fucking WOOOOOOOOOSH ever. Your capacity for critical thinking is severely hampered by your innumeracy. To the point where you really aren't even capable of it.
I would say that Indonesia's Islam-sanctioned genocides in East Timor very much qualify as "terrorism" on a vast scale.
Really? Does $5B a year count as sanctioning? Because that's what Indonesia received from western countries during that time. But good job ignoring the point that in spite of the bullshit bush doctrine of ignorance backed by force, since the Bali bombings Indonesia has made substantial progress in "undermining islamic terror."
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
You silly goose, you're not supposed to look directly at the moon!
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
I'd be more careful about using phrases like "cherry-picking" when discussing 9-/14-/15-year-old girls.
Ahh, but by not voting for the other guy, the 50% who didn't vote implicitly cast their vote for the winning party. Ergo, 3/4 of the people supported the election result.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Funny, it works that way in Chicago too.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
I do consider myself as a general hesperophile
What in the hell is a "hesperophile"? It's not in Webster's, Wiki, or even UrbanDictionary...
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
BBC chinese website is fully accessible, although it wasn't just a few days earlier.
No it is not. That is another lie from the Saudi Lobby you're parrotting. Numerous Muslim sources, including the Koran itself, as well as the most prominent Muslim scholars like al-Ghazali, have explicitly declared Ayeesha's age to be 9.
Put up or shut up. Verifiable citations or it is just more bullshit.
Islam is simply barbaric. Barbaric beyond all reasonable metrics. Barbaric on a scale so horrifying that any modern-minded man of ordinary constitution will be committed to retch in agony rather than read a single Surrah from the Koran.
Hyperbole much? If reading just a single sura causes you to "retch in agony" just how is it that you know so much about the koran in the first place?
That's absolutely rubbish. Nobody likes censorship, let alone Chinese gov blocked some essential sites such as Wiki, google cache, soureforge.
My understanding is those survey are induced with clever phrasing so as to confuse those who take the survey and get the so-called results "Chinese like to be censored" blah blah. For me, it's adds consult to injury.
Standard innumerate deflection. You were set up for it - the term racism applies to cultures not just singular ethnic identities.
No it does not. Racism is a biological ideology of regarding some humans as biologically inferior. Culture plays no part there. The only reason why criticism of inferior cultures is branded "racism" is due to the propaganda of postmodern revisionists who want to cultivate recalcitrant and supremacist Muslim votebanks.
Come back when you can address the issue of nit-picking minority positions and ascribing them to the entire group.
That's the whole point. It is NOT a minority position. It is a majority position.
No fucking duh a bunch of militants are going to be looking for extremist interpretation in order to rationalize their actions.
They were militias, not militants. Don't confuse the two. Militias only thrive through popular support (like American revolutionary militias, who did not need scripture in order to justify their actions)
Really? Does $5B a year count as sanctioning? Because that's what Indonesia received from western countries during that time. But good job ignoring the point that in spite of the bullshit bush doctrine of ignorance backed by force, since the Bali bombings Indonesia has made substantial progress in "undermining islamic terror."
I have BEEN to Indonesia. All your claims are a steaming pile of obfuscatory bollocks. The entire Muslim population is behind Jemiah Islamiyah and other terror groups. Lock, stock and qiblah. They are less loose-lipped around me than they are around some westerner.
The only reason why criticism of inferior cultures is branded "racism" is due to the propaganda of postmodern revisionists who want to cultivate recalcitrant and supremacist Muslim votebanks.
You are such a freaking delusional paranoid. Any information contrary to your extremism is simply kowtowing to voting blocks or arab money. You are just like all other nutjobs with their personal bigotries and self-fulfilling prophecies. Stuck in a delusional echo chamber of your own making.
That's the whole point. It is NOT a minority position. It is a majority position.
You keep claiming that, but its complete bullshit. For you to go around proclaiming that people are not real muslims because they are not extremists would be funny if it weren't so fucked up. You know who else makes that claim? The fucking nutjobs. 99% of muslims would never accuse another muslim of being kafir, its only the crazy extremists who think like you do. No surprise since you are just as extremist as they are.
I have BEEN to Indonesia. All your claims are a steaming pile of obfuscatory bollocks. The entire Muslim population is behind Jemiah Islamiyah and other terror groups. Lock, stock and qiblah. They are less loose-lipped around me than they are around some westerner.
Whoopdeedoo. So when Gallup and Pew hired locals to do polling that shows exactly the opposite of what you claim - for example that indonesian support for suicide bombings against civilian targets went from 42% of the population in 2002 to 34% in 2007 that's just being tight lipped around westerners and Pew kowtowing to voting blocks and arab money. Your personal anecdotal coverage of the situation that the population is behind suicide bombings "lock, stock and qiblah" is soooo much more accurate. It was 100% support and that hasn't changed one bit since 9/11.
I'll take your silence on the $5B/yr from western nations during the east timor massacres as acceptance that the west sanctioned those killings. Sanctioned them a hell of a lot more than a bunch of muslim farmers and factory workers who don't have much more than a substinece living.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Or, 3/4 of the people thought they were all douchebags, and couldn't bring themselves to vote for the lesser of two evils as they'd still be voting for evil.
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
If that many people were dissatisfied with the main candidates they could have voted third-party and won – or at the very least, if their vote was split across several third-party candidates, they would have had enough votes to receive funding for the next election.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Oh, I agree. But that doesn't mean THEY do.
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.