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Jumping To Ubuntu At Work For Non-Linux Geeks
twigles writes "I'm a network engineer, meaning I spend my days dealing with things like selective route advertisements, peering, and traffic engineering; I'm not a Linux admin or developer. About 6 months ago I finally got fed up enough with my experience on Windows XP to jump ship to Ubuntu 8.04, despite not having much Linux experience, particularly on the desktop. Read my ramblings for an engineer's take on taking what can be a pretty intimidating plunge for us Linux noobcakes."
No offense but this isn't very enlightening or insightful.
Repeat after me, you are not an engineer.
Until you go through the same hell in college that degreed mechanical/electrical/aero/civil engineers go through in college and have a chance to obtain a PE, you are not an engineer.
I hereby nominate noobcakes for "word of the year"
Submit an article. Get people to view your hair style. Profit ??
FTFA:
So, what he's looking for is how to make a boot in Ubuntu take more than 20 minutes?
From TFA: "Also, there's no SCP or SFTP feature that I can find comparable to SecureCRT."
I don't know what SecureCRT is like, but you can use the file manager as SFTP client and bookmark pages if you want to. Or you can install Filezilla (the new version can handle SFTP also). Not sure what version comes with Ubuntu 8.04.
For password management try using KeePassX http://www.keepassx.org/
It's free and cross platform.
From the submission:
My experience in switching from Windows XP to Ubuntu 8.04 has not been all positive, but overall I'm incredibly glad I did it. I used to hate my entire computing experience, now I just hate my email client. My coworkers say things like, "wow, it took Notepad over 10 seconds to load," and I chuckle. It's tempting to interpret this to mean Windows would be a better choice in an environment not bogged down by constant security scanning and filtering, and to some degree that's accurate. However I've found that most of the pain in switching comes from having to tinker a little to get the Linux equivalent of your Windows program working.
Remember the author had time to try to make things work. How many folks have time to tinker with text config files or a system help mechanism that is incomplete at best? I wish Linux fan boys can put their bigotry aside and listen for once.
For Linux to become main stream the following must happen.
Support for relevant applications, out of the box - not via a separate repository that must be enabled. (Key word, - relevant)
A single API for applications so that "Linux" is one platform, not many that must be supported for many versions. Without this, all efforts to make Linux the mainstream are thinned, customers get confused which leads to less adoption.
A single desktop, so that Linux is one desktop, not several. Otherwise the other efforts, such as the help desk, marketing and research all multiply their efforts making everything impractical.
I am sure those waiting for this to happen will love KDE 4.2 which will be released in 2 days. Trust me, it's a different animal all together. Things actually work and work well in the coming release. The earlier releases were a total disaster.
Hello sir,
I think i read that KeepPassX can be used in Linux and Windows,
using the same repository.
Check it out!
Cheers
I think the guy's main point was "give it a try, you might just like it". It didn't sound in any way like he was trying to make you a convert, it was more for someone like him who as come to not exactly enjoy their windows experience due to all the bloat of modern day security apps business tend to require.
Sure, but that is an OPINION, (a politically correct one in this place), but... an ARTICLE??? An article should be informative, interesting, or fun... not a biased or anecdotal opinion. That are what the comments are for.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
You must be new here. In a few days you will be posting your 1337 H4x0R adventures in 00B00NT00 and showing the world your ugliness.
You might want to install a so called CYGWIN(Yes, like all free software it is named after a swearword/mental/physical disability) to get you started on the UNIX gulag mentality.
I ain't a fan of Linux but even I can do more than this dufus.
The only things he told us that he ran on virtualized Windows were Microsoft Visio and the password manager. With a viable alternative to Visio, he might not have been tempted to set up virtualized Windows in the first place. What would you have used to replace Visio?
I'm a network engineer, meaning I configure routers, switches, firewalls, and the occasional Unix/Linux box. I don't write code or script, though I have a little experience in both of those areas.
Not only is he a nobody he offers little unique insight, this guy is suffering from "newbs enlightment fever". Why is this blogosphere pollution here?
Just export as PDF.
This is something that I still don't get: Why do businesses require all printable documents to be written in a WRITABLE format? Oh, right. Word doesn't have one by default. Why Innovate when you got 100% of the market?
A network engineer running IM software, music players and Amazons MP3 whatever on his admin box?
Sounds to me like switching to linux is but a minor problem here.
Great attitude you got there! At least the AC seems to have bothered to RTFA.
Why did he not replace Visio with Dia?
A pretty impressive set of tools, now you only left out this one
.. :)
--
click on reply, nothing happens, fire up textpad and type in what you were going to say, before you forget, back to slashdot as the page has finally loaded
Here we go again with another example of the word "Ubuntu" being used in the title instead of "Linux", which would be more appropriate. In general, the subject of the article (more of a blog) is about using Linux instead of MS-Windows. It is not specifically about using Ubuntu.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=344745&cid=21176921
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1095787&cid=26502007
If MS-Windows were (generically) a car, and Linux were a motorcycle, it would be like titling an article "Jumping from driving a car to a Kawasaki". This trend can be extremely annoying to fellow Linux users that don't use Ubuntu, and somewhat of an insult to the thousands of people who contribute time and money to non-Ubuntu distros and even Linux and Linux-related FOSS projects in general. There is nothing wrong with using, liking, or even promoting Ubuntu; but give credit where credit is due. Distros are all about 99% the same, the real difference that matters is MS-Windows vs. Linux vs. MacOS....
Visio runs just fine under Codeweavers CrossOver Office. I run Visio 2003 that way, and it just works.
I thought nerds were usually open minded and wanted to try new stuff ?
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Let me put it this way. Linux should put [all] resources on one desktop environment which should result into a wonderful desktop while leaving the possibility of using another should there be need. What's wrong with that?
Network Admins are like Dental Assistants and other occupations advertised by Sally Struthers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RKQRVn4NAs
Let everyone use whatever tool they want.
Your sig:
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!
You, sir, are a hypocrite.
Password Gorilla is compatible with Password Safe databases and works on both Windows and Linux.
Two main problems that I'm trying to overcome:
:)
Exchange support. Evolution just doesn't cut it. It won't load my global address list and it doesn't seem to handle the "location" field for meeting invites. That means when I get an invite or try to send one I have no clue where our meeting will be.
CVS. I really like TortoiseCVS and can't find an equivalent that is as easy to use. I guess it's not a big deal, I could go back to using the cli, but what can I say, I am lazy.
Everything else has been good so far.
This guy probably makes less money than the guy who cleans the toilets.
Who cares what this loser's silly "problem" is. I don't hear the toilet cleaner guy in a state of angst over switching to Formula 409 after relying on Fantastik for all these years.
Suck it up, bucko. And get a life.
I've been a Linux user since 1993, when I was a student at university. Until 1998, I ran Linux as my primary OS, but kept a Windows partition on my home system to run some games. And since 2002 I've been fortunate enough to run Linux full-time at work. It has been a great experience so far. I didn't have any issues exchanging documents with others at work, and certainly my previous bosses didn't mind. But times change, I suppose.
I've been asked to move back to Windows, at least for work. The difference between Windows (XP) and Linux (Fedora 9) has been shocking, to say the least. Since you often see blogs or tech articles (like the parent post) when long-time Windows users experiment with Linux for the first time, I thought it might be equally interesting for this long-time Linux user to blog about my first experience running Windows in over 6 or 7 years:
Linux in Exile
The short list of things I have run into in my first week of running Windows:
I haven't written yet about program look-and-feel; I'll do that soon. But I have noticed that MS Office acts differently from Notepad, from Media Player, and from the Windows local file browser.
Also, ctrl-backspace is implemented differently just about everywhere - in some cases, it backspaces to the start of the word or field (what I expect) and elsewhere it only backspaces once, and in other cases it inserts a ctrl-backspace character!
You didn't hear the Whooooooosh!! flying past you?
I suggest buying these two products:
The open source equivalences require you to build our own databases (by reading lots and lots of Slashdot), which takes too long. These two proprietary products allows you to gain Humor and Common Sense capabilities instantly.
Microsoft Outlook Web Access (if recent built on server side) works actually very well on IE7+. It has some resemblance to hotmail.com, or maybe hotmail resembles OWA. Unfortunately it scks deluxe on any other browser :(
When it comes to other things you mentioned, why not use some of the web-based alternatives?
o_O
It's so much easier to just mount the remote dir with fuse, that to use any client.
sudo apt-get install sshfs
sshfs user@host:dir/ dest/
And you're done. Use the normal file handler after that.
Don't want to type in passwords? Use ssh-keygen and ssh-add. Don't wanna type in the mount line? Just put them all in a bash script and mount them all first time you log in. Or get the old ones with 'history | grep sshfs' and tun it by typing in the number in front of the command after an exclamation mark, like so: '!679'
He seems to know know about the existence of wine, or at least he didn't mention it. Too bad.
zModem support is the *best* feature of SecureCRT. Much easier then the alternatives. While I've switched to PuTTY, I sure miss it.
Had a position change at my current job which results in a lot less .Net programming and more infrastructure management and planning.
First thing I did was dump XP for Ubuntu 8.10. I love it. Everything on my Dell Latitude D620 just worked. I have dual monitor support from nVidia with just a driver download. I've got OpenVPN and wireless and sound and all working with almost no hacking.
The only times I use Windows are when I need to manipulate Active Directory or SQL Server, then I use an XP instance in Virtual Box. Oh, and the stupid Exchange calendaring.
Otherwise, I have no issues using Ubuntu daily. The update mechanism works well, it's secure, and I've had zero issues. I've tried Linux several times in the last 10 years, and I can finally say it is ready for 'mom' use.
Keep in mind, this is a list of things which I believe to be viable alternatives, not necessarily good ones, and not necessarily better. Just things you might not have known about, or considered.
Mostly, just in case people read TFA, try one of his suggestions, and find themselves thinking "this sucks!" Well, Linux is all about choice -- and here is some choice:
Vanilla SSH is good, but...
To replace SecureCRT I chose SSH Menu along with the stock OpenSSH client. This keeps track of my connections, allowing me to avoid having to memorize IP addresses of jump off boxes, and it also remembers my window sizes.
For the IP addresses, I would suggest a host file and possibly some aliases, if you have a few you connect to often enough to have, for example, 'ssh root@chromium' is too long, so you type something like shcr instead. (I don't actually do that (I type too fast to care), but I've seen others do it.)
Or just use a smarter terminal -- one which can remember window sizes and commands to run as part of a "session".
Also, there's no SCP or SFTP feature that I can find comparable to SecureCRT. This isn't too much of a problem as I don't SCP that many files, but it's still annoying having to type in hostnames or IP addresses.
See above -- not ssh-specific. Any command you type frequently enough, you could just make a menu entry.
Or, if you're a GUI person, fish is nice, too -- just bookmark fish://user@host/wherever in Konqueror.
I'm using OpenOffice (OO) 2.4.1, and it works fine.
Good enough.
If it's not fine, alternatives to try are KOffice, or the GNOME office stuff (AbiWord, Gnumeric, etc). Google Docs, of course, works flawlessly in Firefox regardless of platform.
Ok, Microsoft is probably never going to port this application to Linux. So I used VirtualBox, a free alternative to VMWare, and installed XP.
Not a horrible solution, if you actually need Visio. But there are numerous alternatives that try to do the same thing. I usually go for something more automatic, like GraphViz (with dot).
Since I use Adblock, sometimes I have to use Opera when I want to see how a page is supposed to look.
Or Konqueror... Or you can turn off Adblock for a single page.
This is a sore spot. I work in an Exchange environment...
When I did, I just used Thunderbird with IMAP. These days, I'd use KMail/Kontact with IMAP. I guess it depends how much you need.
The problem is Evolution kind of sucks too
I'll suggest Kontact.
Another easy win here. Pidgin comes pre-installed.
Cool. If you need webcam support, there's Kopete, but it has its own weirdness. Pidgin likely Just Works.
Nothing big here, I just use Gnome-RDP.
Similarly, krdc is nice, mostly because it's a multi-backend client. Paste in a URI-like specification, and it'll do RDP, VNC, whatever.
Ubuntu comes with a stock PDF reader pre-installed, and it works. However it's pretty plain, and at one point I changed it to view two pages at once and since haven't figured out how to put it back.
KPDF was good. Okular is excellent. And for the record, to change the above in Okular is view->view mode.
So I downloaded the Adobe Linux client and it works great.
apt-get install acroread. Yep, works great. I only use it when I have to, though.
So I use PasswordSafe. Unfortunately the Linux version sucks.
There's got to be something else out there. I know that, at one point, I was using Google Browser Sync -- maybe there's a service like that, still?
I just switched over to Amarok though, and I love it - it has smart playlists, and even a pause button! I kept Rythymb
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
On ubuntu you really don't need an ftp or sftp client because gnome applications already speak those networking protocols.
Just open up nautilus, and give the networking path instead of the file system path. sftp://my_username@myserver.com/my/path
Using gedit or other gnome programs you can even open up the files remotely without manually copying them to the local disk.
This also makes setting up an smb server unnecessary since as long as you have ssh access you can access the whole remote filesystem through nautilus.
I've never heard of anyone ever getting it to work with a real world program.
The problem is that different linux distros are *not* binary compatible with each other. Some of the core libraries like glibc are compatible, but most binaries link a ton of other stuff. You might as well try installing windows programs or osx programs.
Alien cannot fix ABI incompatibilities.
>What to do when a developer distributes a .deb, or the other way around?
>.rpm but not a
Install from source.
On the other hand proprietary developers have a different system for installing their software. They use a minimal set of shared libraries like glibc and the x libraries that don't change their ABI often, then they statically compile everything else.
They also typically provide a shell script based installer instead of an rpm. Those that provide rpm's typically also provide a fairly generic deb.
It's a bitch getting inter distro compatible binaries on linux, so unless the developer put the initial work in, don't expect to be able to force it to run on your distro.
and I've had good luck with it in thunderbird.
However, I don't think there's linux program that handles exchange calendaring well. There's a plugin for thunderbird, but it doesn't work very well.
My advice is to use outlook web access for calendaring if you don't have a windows box on hand... although honestly I just keep my corporate laptop with winxp next to my linux workstation for when I need the calendar.
If you get sick of switching back and forth between windows, a good option is to use rdesktop:
http://www.rdesktop.org/
to log into your windows machine and keep a window open with outlook. Alternatively, there's always vmware, although it's a bit pricey and sucks up ram.
is that it is 2009 and someone who claims to be a network engineer (one that deals with routers and switches) is still trying to use Windows. I've been running a pretty large network and have not touched Windows since the late 90's. I've been using Solaris and Linux as my desktop for years, only one member of my team still has Windows installed and that is booted only when we need to check a VPN package or something. Seriously, when trying to admin a network, Windows only gets in the way and causes problems. Sure, other people will give answers about IT policy and having to fit in with the rest of the IT infrastructure, but the networking group *is* the infrastructure and is pretty much above the law when their requirements come into question.
No, just neither an Apple or Linux fanboy. Most likely chants 'There is but one OS and Richmond is its vendor' at any and all board meetings.
Hey, nobody ever got fired for specifying Microsoft.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
But the curses are piling up...
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
It seems like I'm seeing a new article about a Windows guy trying Linux every couple days or so. I don't find this guy's article particularly stimulating, but I like the message. Windows guys are liking Linux enough to spread the word any way they can. Here's another Windows IT guy blogging as he tries Linux. I'm interested to see his final verdict: Vista Vitals
I've got some special insight into this argument since I've been on both sides of it. ...an engineer. (Note what I'm doing with Capitalization here). Specifically, I was a stationary engineer and a member of the International Union of Operating engineers. I served a four year apprenticeship in order to be a journeyman stationary engineer. There can be a certain amount of "hell" associated with that process too (that most academics would underestimate).
I've been through all of the hell that you described above and gotten my BS in Mechanical Engineering from an accredited university. I've now worked as a Civil Engineer for several years, and have recently taken the PE exam. (I'll be retaking it soon. My score was one point too low).
Before I got my degree, I was working my way through college part-time as
The title is traditionally applied in two different (and probably more) senses. The first, Engineer, is given to a range of professions requiring a high degree of mathematical, scientific, and a well-rounded academic education, that is (supposed to be) typical of at least a four-year college degree. The second sense, engineer, is to refer to members of a range of vocational trades that branched out of heavy equipment operations, (especially steam-powered equipment) in the nineteenth century. Both of these traditional uses of the term have well-established precedent.
Today the academic Engineers would like to restrict the use of the term to distinguish themselves from the vocational engineers. But the latter naturally object to the loss of the respected title. My take on this is that vocational side underestimates the expectations that the most recent use of the term Engineer evokes. I would continue to have considerable respect for current members of my former trade, if they were to use the titles of "technician" and "operator" instead. But I suspect that many of my current colleagues, i.e. Engineers, don't adequately appreciate the difficulties encountered in acquiring a skilled trade and don't have much respect such titles or vocations.
Nice Reading albeit a few misconceptions in using Ubuntu may come from the fact that he's try to use it exactly like Windows. I thought of writing it as a e-mail but ended up posting it on /.
So don't wonder I address "you"
A few hints:
> SSH Client
> To replace SecureCRT I chose SSH Menu along with the stock OpenSSH client.
Do you mean "connection to server" under "places"? Where you simply mount a remote directory via sshfs/webdav/younameit and then just use it like any other folder? Not a rhetoric question, this is the only point in your article I am not understanding what you wanted to say.
Btw. SSH Tunnels are managable with the package gSTM. You might try adding the medibuntu source for that. I didn't found it on my workstation (no medibuntu sources) but it is on my laptop (with medibuntu sources), but I didn't look it up before posting.
SSH _multiplexing_, working in parallel: Try the package "clusterssh" :) You can't do that with Putty!?
> Visio
Most Ubuntu users go with Dia. But that might not be an option if you already have a lot of Visio files, or receive them regularly.
> Browser
> [..] Since I use Adblock, sometimes I have to use Opera
> when I want to see how a page is supposed to look.
It's possible to use firefox with and without plugins easily.
Try using another profile without/with less plugins. You can even make a second icon which starts firefox with the option "--no-remote". That avoids simply opening another window of an already active profile and offers you to select whatever profile you like.
The only prerequisite is that you don't automatically start with the last profile. (.mozilla/firefox/profiles.ini, in "General" section set "StartWithLastProfile=0")
This way you can start as many differently configured firefoxes as you like.
("NoScript" is a good candidate to be disable in a "just-works" profile for secure, known sites.)
> PDF Reader
> [..] it's pretty plain, and at one point I changed it to view two
> pages at once and since haven't figured out how to put it back. [..]
"Evince" is badly configured by default -- at a first look I was totally disappointed by it, too. ..." etc.
But there is a solution to that:
Right click on the toolbar and you can add the icons for "two-paged", "fullscreen", "rotate
Honestly I still do printing via Acrobat Reader, e.g. it's far more easier to configure for printing multiple pages on one printout.
> Music Player
> (though the lack of a stop or pause button on a music player is pretty lame).
You can pause it by pressing the play button once more -- as its "pressed down" state suggests :)
As far as I know every new Gnome application follow this rule, e.g. press the "two-paged" button in "evince" again and it will go "single-page".
Regards
Last Friday I stumbled over a project that seems to fit that requirement perfectly.
I'll just cite the site's intro:
andLinux is a complete Ubuntu Linux system running seamlessly in Windows 2000 based systems (2000, XP, 2003, Vista; 32-bit versions only). This project was started for Dynamism for the GP2X community, but its userbase far exceeds its original design. andLinux is free and will remain so, but donations are greatly needed.
And some more: ;-)
You will get:
* a fully functional Linux system, however without the usual desktop (you've already got one from Windows)
* a second panel (e.g. at the top of your Windows desktop) or a second start menu (in the system tray next to the clock), from which you can start Linux applications
* Linux applications and Windows applications can be used simultaneously and you can cut and paste text between them
* apt / Synaptic to install further applications
You will NOT get:
* another desktop
* the bench of applications that usually ship with Linux distributions (you have to fetch whatever you want)
* trouble with further drivers
Limitations
* Security warning: It is recommended to use andLinux only on single-user-PCs or in a trustworthy environment because the communication with the X-Server and the launcher is not secured, i.e., every user who can login to Windows can access andLinux.
* andLinux is not suitable for high-performance realtime graphics such as required by most 3D games. Although some users managed to get openGL applications to work on recent hardware, you will most probably experience problems doing so.
* If you have a multi-core CPU, you will only be able to use one of these cores for andLinux (due to technological limitations, as all andLinux processes are encapsulated in one Windows process).
See http://www.andlinux.org/
I haven't tested it yet but I think I will install it shortly.
Cheers.
Actually his writeup hits a point I've been struggling with for a while and one that is making me reconsider Linux as my desktop OS.
Is there a diagram editor that works on Linux? I've tried Dia and it seems clunky and lacking. Is there anything out there with the functionality of Visio, but runs on Linux?
Are we supposed to take this freak seriously? Try looking like a man and then come back.
I have just switched back to XP from ubuntu 8.10 due to numerous issues:
laptop suspend and hibernate not reliable
close lid, low battery, sleep then hibernate no go
sound would just quit working
multiple monitor and res switching, better in U8.10, but still not as transparent as under XP
3D acceleration of hi-def video and googleearth touch and go
no support for HP's apparently-windows-only 3G modems in Elitebook
a silly bug with the logitech dinovo usb dongle that it would lock up on ubuntu boot, had to unplug and replug every time, meh.
other silly productivity-killing bugs like cant paste an image into thunderbird new mail and cant have more than one vpn connection up at a time
these issues became deal breakers for me, I had to switch back to XP to get the most out of my shiny new Elitebook. This boils down to HP (or whoever) not working as well with open source community making the hardware support seamless as they seem to do with M$. under XP, all the drivers are rock solid and mature. It all just works.
I do miss some things about Ubuntu, the fully whizbang compiz desktop is quite a treat! Ubuntu 8.10 intrepid is the closest thing to be really useable on various laptops I tried it on. Maybe Version 9 will get us over the edge.
OK, kdawson. Oh, wait...
Well I have most of this going either by using Codeweavers crossover or linux tools:
The only thing i have not been able to convert over to linux is PeopleTools, which is getting looked at by the crossover guys atm. For now i have it running under Suns new implementation of VirtualBox which is running sweet as and has not crashed once ;) .
I do admit that it is a "little" more effort to get things up and running, but I enjoy learning. So as long as this reigns true I will keep using Ubuntu.
The real reason Linux on a desktop is horrible is because there are about 100+ different distros, how the hell am I supposed to find what I want to use, sadly people complain about 5 different windows versions how would they feel with a lot more. I have used all the top distros that you can name for about a week each, plus installing software is a pain let alone finding what you want and then finding out it works but doesn't work as you want it to and you need to spend time to fix the problem.
Heck I am an experienced computer user and I know I could get the hang of it but what the hells the point of switching to linux if only less the 1% of users use it then divide the one percent by the 100 different distros and how the hell am I going to make money supporting people on 100 different distros if I only know a 2 or three. People don't want a $1000 bill for my service, they might as well get a new cheap windows computer for half the price. Linux gurus get together and make a couples of kick ass os's because the way it is going there will be 10,000 different ones and still less then 1% after you combine them all together.
Linux on servers now that is a different story.