Microsoft Surface To Coordinate SuperBowl Security

suraj.sun writes to tell us that in preparation for nearly a quarter of a million people descending on Tampa for the Super Bowl, the Tampa authorities are deploying new tech for security communications and response. All of the incidents and communications will be plotted and tracked on a new implementation of Microsoft's Surface. Hopefully it wont have to reboot after every new incident report. "The Microsoft Surface device will display a Microsoft Virtual Earth map of the entire region tracking events, incidents, resources and tasks in real-time using its unique large display, multi-user, multi-touch and interactive capabilities, also allowing it to communicate with remote devices and PCs. With a quick hand-gesture, the map can zoom in and display a 3D image of the city, including detailed views of buildings and streets and real time resource tracking."

Comments

Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

inb4 lame blue screen of death jokes

Re:Oh no

[azav]

Failure in security.dll. Abort, retry or ignore?

Re:Oh no

[eldavojohn]

Then it's settled, I'm going to be streaking in the game wearing nothing but this ...

inb4 lame blue screen of death jokes

Aw, dude, why'd you have to go stealing my one-trick-pony thunder like that? It's all I've got ...

Re:Oh no

[MoellerPlesset2]

A problem has been detected and the Super Bowl has been shut down to protect your audience.

The problem seems to be caused by the following module: WARDROBE.DLL
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NIPPLE_AREA

If this is the first time you have seen this error screen, restart the show.
If this screen appears again, follow these instructions:

Check to make sure this is not a dress rehearsal. If so, give the producers hell and consider firing the artists.

If problems continue, you may be fined by the FCC.

Technical information:
*** STOP: 0x0000B00B

Re:Oh no

[sumdumass]

Nice!

I was going to make some lame comment about how Tampa is finally getting tech like Miami (CSI TV show) and rant about the costs/effectiveness in a non-obvious way. It takes real imagination to come up with a stop error ****0x0000B00B

My hats off to you.

Re:Oh no

[djupedal]

> using its unique large display, multi-user, multi-touch and interactive capabilitie

And just to keep things straight, let's recall that this big-ass-table has NO 'touch' capability. It uses several cameras below the glass to detect motion. Touching the glass has no effect on any operation of the system. It is an indication of the type of marketing lie MS seems so willing to foist on the public and media.

MS has tried for years to find an application for this white elephant, but with nothing new to market, and the iPhone's true touch interface leading the pack, they keep rolling it out in an effort to get someone to pay the $10,000.00 price tag.

Re:Oh no

[The Spoonman]

Agreed. It's 2009. The last time I remember getting a BSOD was on NT4.0. An electrician had shorted out a power line with a network cable and it fried the machine. These stability jokes really only attest to the author's cluelessness.

Re:Oh no

[bladesjester]

I used to get them with win2k on occasion. After the move to XP, we only had a couple of bsods, and those were very early on, both caused by driver issues.

Re:Oh no

[samriel]

It's been my experience that, both in XP and in Leopard, in order to get a BSOD or Kernel Panic, you have to either be A) trying [ie running weird code/shady code you got from some site in Korea] to mess up your system or B) pushing your system too hard. YMMV, but that seems to be how it goes for most of us.

Re:Oh no

[omkhar]

You mean you were going to use a Visual Basic GUI interface to track down the offending people

Re:Oh no

[Fumus]

Please tag "bigasstable" :)

Re:Oh no

[bladesjester]

Like I said, in the years that I've run XP for myself and the places I've worked, I've had 2 (maybe 3) blue screens and those were not long after release. The reason was that the drivers at the time choked, but once those were fixed, I've never had a problem with them.

It's pretty impressive actually.

Re:Oh no

[jonesy16]

Or C) bought cheap memory.

Re:Oh no

[spxero]

Currently using XP SP2 on a Lenovo T61. When I set plug an extra monitor in, the machine goes to dual screen just fine. When I try to go back to one screen, BSoD with a fault in win32k.sys (or something like that). I find it hard to believe that going from two monitors down to one qualifies as trying to mess up my system or pushing it too hard.

Can't go to SP3 due to software, can't use Linux due to work.

Re:Oh no

[The Spoonman]

Almost every BSOD I've ever heard of was a driver issue. But, try convincing an anti-Windows zealot of that. :)

Re:Oh no

[value_added]

The last time I remember getting a BSOD was on NT4.0. An electrician had shorted out a power line with a network cable and it fried the machine.

Last time for me was on XP using a fairly new (at the time) Linksys ethernet card.

These stability jokes really only attest to the author's cluelessness.

Sorry, but Windows still bluescreens (often unnoticed due to the "reboot automatically" feature). If there's any cluelessness involved here, it's that your personal experiences don't correspond to those of others, or that you've not had to read through the newer KB articles written describing such problems.

Re:Oh no

[dfm3]

Indeed. I have a nagging suspicion that this whole topic was posted exclusively for the anti-Microsoft jokes.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Same effect; different method. So what?

Also, $10K is peanuts for a corporation. There are more expensive bottles of whisky.

Re:Oh no

[minsk]

Uhm, no. Saying it detects "motion" is even less accurate than "touch". Proximity within a few inches is good enough for many demos, and a few limited applications... like the over-hyped kiosk advertising they are actually pursuing at the moment.

Large touch interfaces are a completely different beast than Apple's. Microsoft is a long way from a useful peripheral, but comparing it with an iPhone is laughable.

Re:Oh no

[bladesjester]

I've seen a few that were also caused by a program writing to a place in memory where it shouldn't have had access. I should know; I ran into a bug in Visual Studio 6 that caused one of my programs to wander off into system memory and crash the system it was running on while I was still in college.

It worked fine in Solaris, but using VS on Windows, it started crashing random programs, and then, eventually, the operating system. It was kind of neat. heh

If I remember correctly, it was some strange scoping problem with VS. It's been years though.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

I figure I've had the BSOD a zillion and a half times. If I got punched by my wife a zillion and a half times for no reason, I'd divorce her. Instead, I stopped using MS and found a more stable OS.

My same feeling with GM going under. If they hadn't used planned obsolescence and screwed me for so long, I'd care. Instead, I started buying Japanese cars. So what if they go under? I care as much for businesses that make their money off GM as I care for businesses that make their money off the Commodore 64.

Re:Oh no

[MightyYar]

That was funny enough that I'm going to stop reading right now, because the thread can't improve. I've certainly done MY part to ensure that.

Re:Oh no

[causality]

Agreed. It's 2009. The last time I remember getting a BSOD was on NT4.0. An electrician had shorted out a power line with a network cable and it fried the machine. These stability jokes really only attest to the author's cluelessness.

It's 2009. The last time I remember seeing a Windows machine with a remotely-exploitable security problem was on NT4.0. A hacker had smashed the window of the building, brushed away the broken glass, climbed in, and since this gave him physical access he had a very easy time owning the machine. You just can't protect a PC against an attacker with physical access, you know. Jokes to the contrary really only attest to the joker's cluelessness and ignorance about security.

Re:Oh no

[hansamurai]

My God, you know the Apply fanboys are out in force when they've resorted to ripping on a TABLE by comparing it to a handheld device. They have completely different target users, not to mention completely different uses. Are you somehow proposing that the security team should have used an Iphone instead of the Surface to coordinate their efforts? I'm not saying the Surface is the best choice, but even bringing up the Iphone is a joke.

Also, a quick check of Wikipedia shows that the Surface hasn't even been on the market for a year, and was announced less than two years ago, and somehow it's already a white elephant? The device has pretty specific uses, it's not being marketed as far as I know for home use.

Re:Oh no

[sribe]

Ahem, the last time I saw a BSOD on XP SP3 was, drumroll please, last night ;-)

Re:Oh no

[ElectricRook]

What it means is that the head of security for SB gets a really cool visual toy that serves absolutely no purpose other than to strike said official's ego.

Of course there is the upside that someone gets to sell a toy to a private company...

Which I highly approve of...

Even if it is MS that gets the sale, just that someone got to sell a toy for hyper-inflated prices.

Re:Oh no

[SuperSlug]

Ya blue screen almost never happen anymore. Except here, here and here...
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/10/09/blue-screen-of-death-in-unexpected-locations/

SuperSlug

Re:Oh no

[convictus]

Really, I get them weekly on one machine. Granted it is a hardware fault, I think the caps have swollen on the board, but I still see bsod fairly frequently.

Re:Oh no

[evan_arrrr!]

But how many hats?

Re:Oh no

[MadnessASAP]

What the hell sort of crasy ass electricians do you have around that they managed to short a live ethernet cable with a live power line? I would be firing the electrician, his coworkers and the the next 2 levels of supervisors and management above him just so I could make sure that there was no way in hell any of his stupidity could remain in the company.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

When I try to go back to one screen, BSoD with a fault in win32k.sys (or something like that).

That's the video driver taking over at that point. I have better luck with manufacturer drivers than the ones auto-detected.

Re:Oh no

[The End Of Days]

That's why all Microsoft-related articles are published. It's a giant circle jerk.

Re:Oh no

[ruiner13]

Thank you. I was having a shitty day until I read this, now I'm laughing my ass off. Thank you, kind sir or madam.

Re:Oh no

[not already in use]

The problem, of course, is the lack of objective reporting. I've had various Desktop Linux distro's (and OS X) crash on me far more often than XP sp2+ and Vista has over the past 4-5 years. Pointing out the former will only result in a Troll or Flamebait mod, while the same MS jokes we've been hearing for the last 10 years still get modded funny.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

you are an idiot

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

it's already in the story. "Hopefully it wont have to reboot after every new incident report. "

Re:Oh no

[Ihmhi]

Alternative choices:

*** STOP: 0x00007175

*** STOP: 0x0B00B1E5

Re:Oh no

[Ihmhi]

Man, when the Hell am I gonna get a LCARS-style Wall Panel for my house?

Mess around with some Majel Roddenberry sound clips in Audacity and get a custom Linux OS running on it and I'm golden!

Re:Oh no

[RocketRabbit]

"I've had various Desktop Linux distro's (and OS X) crash on me far more often than XP sp2+ and Vista has over the past 4-5 years."

For some reason I don't believe you. That reason? I administer and work with all those platforms and more. Windows crashes more than all other OS's put together, and for entirely mundane reasons. To make OS X fail you have to install some poorly designed extensions, most of the time. Making Windows fail is so, SO much easier.

Sure, XP SP2 or SP3 is better than XP SP1 or Vista, but it isn't as stable as Windows 2000 was. And it certainly isn't as stable as a Mac. We have a Windows Storage Server 2003, an expensive machine from Dell, and if you could see the weird shit it does you'd apologize for making suck an ignorant, Microass kissing statement.

I have to reboot my Windows workstation at work biweekly to monthly, because it just gets weird, confused, and messed up. I don't have to ever reboot my Mac except when a system update is installed.

Re:Oh no

[sumdumass]

Both of them of course. Do you wear more?

Re:Oh no

[Korbeau]

Well I wouldn't Mod that parent "troll", he kinda has a point.. BSOD are anecdotal these days. Sure.. under certain situations, and especially if you work in IT, you'll see them more often.. but for the average user it's practically gone.

The only times I remember having to hard reboot my computer in the last few years except when trying experimental things were in the summer when my CPU overheats while playing games.

Anyway, it's way less worst than it was before, and I agree that criticizing Windows for its stability is a little old-school. I had problems with Unbuntu and Macs as well ... maybe OpenVMS is better?

  - my two cents

Re:Oh no

[netdur]

me too, I have seen a BSOD on vista yesterday, hp 64bit laptop, the girl was trying to install 3G modem, I couldn't read the message because it rebooted after seconds

Re:Oh no

[shutdown -p now]

Hi, I'm Clippy. You seem to be trying to reinstall Windows. Would you like me to format your HDD for you?

Re:Oh no

[shutdown -p now]

I've seen a few that were also caused by a program writing to a place in memory where it shouldn't have had access. I should know; I ran into a bug in Visual Studio 6 that caused one of my programs to wander off into system memory and crash the system it was running on while I was still in college.

Ah, the wonders of Win9x free-for-all "memory model"... gladly that died out with 2K/XP.

Re:Oh no

[Gavagai80]

And in each case, it's probably third party drivers and not Windows or Linux or OS X at fault. (In linux, ATI drivers have tended to cause lots of crashes. In windows, linksys has already been mentioned.)

Re:Oh no

[Jamie's Nightmare]

Any why does it still Blue Screen? Well, because even though 99% of Blue Screen errors today are caused by poorly written drivers or hardware failures, having more Windows machines out there than any other OS means that even those few problems will appear more often than problems on all other systems combined.

That is why these jokes, as popular as they are, are asinine and stupid. Because they completely throw out the LOGIC that a lot of you so called "nerds" are supposed to appreciate.

Re:Oh no

[ozphx]

You mean _Fingerwork's_ tech, which Apple bought, locking out fairly cool tech to their shitty few percent of the market. I'm typing this on a Touchstream LP - which works as a generic HID keyboard/mouse input device with all kinds of delicious gesture recognition. Its a great cross-platform piece of technology, which Apple has now ruined by sitting on a bunch of patents so they can sell more fkn iPhones.

Now yes, everyone else doing multitouch, like MS and the Lemur guys have to use a substandard implementation.

Fuckers.

Re:Oh no

[causality]

Or C) bought cheap memory.

I've seen too many Windows machines that were unstable due to "cheap memory" that had no problems running Linux to actually believe that explanation. I mean, I know Linux is great but I don't expect it to improve the quality of the hardware.

For that matter, I've also seen machines with verifiable memory errors (per Memtest86+) that had no problems running Windows and could handle everything except GCC compiles in Linux (the compiles failed with "internal compiler error" every time, which is consistent with a hardware issue). This also harms the credibility of the "cheap memory" excuse for Windows instabilities. I'm not saying that verifiable memory errors could not possibly cause stability problems; if you read this and think that's what I believe, well, you're wrong. They obviously can. I am only saying that I've seen that happen without being a tremendous showstopper, which was rather contrary to my expectations, and that this also renders me disinclined to believe easy explanations from Windows apologists.

I know that the above is anecdotal. I know that it does not constitute evidence. I don't expect it to convince you or change your mind about anything. I'm just giving a few reasons why lots of people don't believe in that explanation.

Re:Oh no

[bladesjester]

Indeed. Though, I have to say that the look my friend and I gave each other while it was happening was priceless. heh

Re:Oh no

[mjeppsen]

The last time I saw a BSOD was last night, on a Mac iBook, in those stupid FinallyFast commercials. The horror, should you wish to relive it again: http://www.distantcreations.com/blog/2009/01/07/wednesday-whine-finallyfastcom-worst-commercial-ever/

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

But the point is that your anecdote is irrelevant, because this would be impossible on any NT-based OS. On any NT series OS (just like on Mac or Linux), kernel mode code is the only code that can crash the computer.

Re:Oh no

[pimpimpim]

Aha, so true. The problem is that, in theory, linux should be salvageable without rebooting, but in practice you can have one process locking up even the data from the input devices, so you cannot even interact anymore. Memory leaks from e.g. flash applications or network-mounts that fall offline are some of the frequent reasons the system crashes in my case. It's very nasty, and worst of all, there doesn't seem to be much progress in this area, it's not much better than 10 years ago, maybe even worse.

Re:Oh no

[dotancohen]

Failure in security.dll. Abort, retry or ignore?

Of course, being how the Surface doesn't have a text interface, they would implement that in pictures some how. See here:
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/microsoft_surface.html

Re:Oh no

[Juln]

well, consider yourself lucky.

I've gotten about 5 in vista. Probably hardware, sure, I guess... Also, explorer (taskbar) crashes like 3 times a day, only in 4 day clusters every other week.

Nothing like that happens in Linux on the same laptop.

Re:Oh no

[Juln]

Or, you might be trying to run the configuration program that Toshiba supplied with your laptop

Re:Oh no

[dimeglio]

I'm not Apple fan boy but don't see how a patent from Apple stops other products. It just adds to the cost. If the product is that great, all they need is to get a license from Apple and pass the cost on to you. I am sure Apple is willing to see other companies adopt their technology. Works great for Panasonic, Philips, Sony with Blu-Ray.

Personally I think that handing over security to Microsoft is like asking the Hell's Angels to provide security at a Rolling Stones concert.

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

"Well I wouldn't Mod that parent "troll", he kinda has a point.. BSOD are anecdotal these days. Sure.. under certain situations, and especially if you work in IT, you'll see them more often.. but for the average user it's practically gone."

Bull, the laptop I am using get so jammed up that when I plug it into an ethernet network and have DHCP enabled the bitch BSODs.

Re:Oh no

[djupedal]

> Saying it detects "motion" is even less accurate than "touch"

What else would a camera do? Detection of co-ordinates has to be fed in somehow. Especially since there is nothing to interpret touch. Man, I'd love you have your crack budget...must eat the lion's share of your MS paycheck.

Re:Oh no

[CAIMLAS]

I don't know if it was the 'Stones, but the Angels used to do security for one of those 1970s bands. May have been the stones (in which case, you're likely referencing something I'm not aware of), but I seem to recall hearing they did very good security.

Re:Oh no

[minsk]

I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Would it be excessively belittling to point out that cameras detect _light_?

Please, let's not get /. confused with Digg. If you want to present incorrect fictions as being fact, at least have the decency to educate yourself once corrected, rather than trolling.

Re:Oh no

[djupedal]

Thanks for making my point :) Light isn't touch, is it.

Re:Oh no

[ozphx]

They did excellent security. IIRC they stopped a dude with a gun (by stabbing him).

Re:Oh no

[ozphx]

You assume Apple will license on RAND terms. They won't, because it isn't in their best interests.

Re:Oh no

[IcI]

Even had my Win7 Beta BSOD

There was an error in security.exe

[Anonymous Coward]

please reboot your computer

submit error report to Microsoft
[yes][no][whats the point]

Re:There was an error in security.exe

[Anonymous Coward]

The point is that we actually look at those issue reports that come in. They provide the statistical backing used to determine order of priority when trying to address fixes, as well as provide a means by which to pressure IHVs to roll drivers that don't cause the crashes.

New definition of BSOD?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Blue SURFACE of Death/Destruction?

Re:New definition of BSOD?

[SeaFox]

When I saw "surface" in the title I was thinking of the playing field.

"Blue Sod Of Defeat?

Re:New definition of BSOD?

[Anonymous Coward]

That'd be a lot funnier weren't it for:

from the blue-surface-of-death dept.

let's reboot this joke

[blitzkrieg3]

"Hopefully we won't have to reboot after every new incident report."

Can we please retire that joke? I haven't used Windows in a long time so I'm not sure if it's still true, but XP wasn't terrible (when free of malware) and that joke is really getting tired and unfunny.

Though I don't think MS writes very good software, I we're past the days of needing to reboot to change your IP address.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be new here.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Chabo]

I agree completely, I mean I haven't had a crash or rebo

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Lumpy]

Vista has detected a new incident.

Cancel or allow?

Re:let's reboot this joke

[nwf]

More like, "Windows has detected a new audience member. You must reboot in order for this change to take effect."

Re:let's reboot this joke

[sumdumass]

Just wait until it's anti virus program starts flagging audience members with the sniffles as viruses and put warning incidents out there or tries to remove them.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[mcgrew]

Can we please retire that joke?

Sorry, no. It's an old one but a good one.

I we're past the days of needing to reboot to change your IP address.

But we're not past the days when you need to reboot Windows for a lot of things you can do in Linux without rebooting.

Some jokes are nearly immortal, because they're just funny. One of my favorites outdates automobiles.

A braggart is in a bar, and claims he can make a horse laugh. Everyone chortles derisively, and eventually he's bet everyone in the bar a dollar that he can do it.

So he goes outside and whispers in the horse's ear, and amazingly the horse laughs its ass off. His fellow patrons are amazed and pay up, and he exclaims that he can make a horse cry!

Of course the bet is on again, so the fellow walks out and nobody can see exactly what he does, but the horse starts bawling like a baby with dirty diapers, crying its eyes out. He comes back in and collects his money.

"So, fella, how'd you make that horse laugh?" the bartender asks.

"Easy. I told him my dick was bigger than his."

"How'd you make him cry?"

"I showed him."

Re:let's reboot this joke

[meringuoid]

I haven't used Windows in a long time so I'm not sure if it's still true, but XP wasn't terrible (when free of malware)

So, that's... I'm not sure. What's the current half-life of an unpatched, out-of-the-box XP install before some worm or other gets in? Six minutes or something, wasn't it? It definitely got bad enough at one point that it simply wasn't possible to download and install the necessary updates in time to be safe.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[DanWS6]

If you only knew. IT is constantly screwing with our wireless network. Everytime (daily) that I can't connect they tell me to reboot Windows.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[DAldredge]

What is the half life of an unpatched Red Hat from the same year that XP was released?

Re:let's reboot this joke

[morgan_greywolf]

Though I don't think MS writes very good software, I we're past the days of needing to reboot to change your IP address.

Maybe not the IP address, but definitely the hostname. For the uninitiated, changing a hostname on XP or Vista:

1. Open the System Properties control panel either through Start | Settings | Control Panel, or by right clicking on 'My Computer', or by hitting the Win+Break shortcut key.
2. Click the 'Change' button.
3. If a domain, you'll be prompted for credentials, otherwise skip to the next step
4. Dialog box display "You must restart your computer..." Click 'Ok' and the computer reboots

Changing the hostname on Linux or almost any other *nix:

$ sudo hostname new hostname

That's it.

So I guess that means we get to keep the reboot jokes.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[citizenr]

"Hopefully we won't have to reboot after every new incident report."

Can we please retire that joke?

why? Video is already unavailable, what makes you think Surface command center will not die just like a video file on Microsoft server?

Re:let's reboot this joke

[samriel]

I we're past the days of needing to reboot to change your IP address.

When did we have to reboot to change our IP address? IDK about those without routers and/or external modems, but for us with them, we're a 15-second unplug, wait, and replug away from a new IP address. IANAE though.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[jonesy16]

Considering that almost every time I run YUM there's a new kernel update I'm not sure that this is entirely accurate. While I do think there are things that Windows is ridiculous for wanting me to reboot for, Linux is getting worse faster than it's getting better. When I was running Ubuntu it seemed like every update wanted to restart.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[jonesy16]

Wow, you're so off base it's not even funny. Nevermind that your command on linux has no bearing on how the system announces itself to the network, doesn't affect WINS servers, etc. While it seems trivial at the outset, Windows uses the computers name for a lot more things than an internal DNS reference so the user can ping him/herself. That being said, it would seem to me that Windows could do a simple service restart as opposed to a full reboot.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Vancorps]

So what? I just installed the madwifi drivers on Ubuntu for my Acer netbook and yep! I had to reboot for it to stop using the wrong HAL for the Atheros chipset.

Given that such things rarely ever change once setup why should we care if you have to reboot or not? An IP address on both changes regularly depending on your profession so at least that is good that you don't have to reboot any platform at this point.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Thaelon]

Seconded. My windows box at home is often up for more than 40 days at a time with zero problems.

In fact, a program I use that (in addition to other functions) monitors uptime seems to crash due to a numerical overflow that I suspect is related to measuring uptime.

In unusual contrast, the ubuntu box I use at work frequently does inexplicable things for no apparent reason. My notification area randomly screwed itself up a few days ago, and I'm unable to restore it, one time my desktop background randomly disappeared after a reboot. Attempting to add a main menu item that launches SQL Developer is a usability nightmare (it's a seven step process to re-edit a menu item you're trying to get working). And then it quietly fails to work but leaves massively CPU intensive bash processes running quietly in the background. I wasn't even aware it was creating processes until I noticed my computer was heinously unresponsive due to CPU load.

And then seemingly at random 8-10 times a day some sort of load spike hits, my mouse stutters, and if I'm typing at the time its as if I held down the key for 3 seconds, screwing up whatever I was typing at the time. I have no idea how to track this down, nor why some rogue process is allowed to take priority over user input devices despite having reniced my mouse to -10.

I acknowledge that this is anecdotal evidence, and probably largely as a result of a decade of windows experience and relatively limited experience, but I'm a fairly advanced user and have way more problems with linux than windows.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was running Ubuntu it seemed like every update wanted to restart.

That happens when the kernel updates a lot. Unless one of the kernel updates is an important security update, you can just, you know, IGNORE the request for a reboot.

Windows, on the other hand, REQUIRES a reboot even for things like updates to system services. The only daemon in Linux that cannot be restarted without a reboot is init (process ID 1).

And, it boggles my mind to think about it, but people are looking into modifying the Linux kernel to make it possible to swap kernels without a reboot. (I guess you could only do that when the new kernel didn't make changes to data structures in use?)

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Narnie]

I think it's more like this:

Windows has detected a new [audience member].
[Audience member]s can be dangerous and cause disruption of services or unwanted problems. Accept new [Audience member]s with caution.

[Cancel] [Allow]

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Vertana]

I love it! Everybody else cracking MS jokes gets modded funny or Insightful, but not you... no you're modded troll.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[SuiteSisterMary]

Less. Seriously.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Anonymous Coward]

You could, but would you really want to and would the effort involved be worth it as well? In my simplistic view, you would just use the suspend feature of the kernel, read/modify/rewrite any changed data structures, replace the kernel and then unsuspend? The hard part would be the modify, any small change and you'd have to write a converter.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Cally]

XP wasn't terrible (when free of malware)

As I remember it, that blissful idyll lasted about six hours, until the 0day universal PnP vulnerability surfaced.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Tweenk]

Still, it doesn't nag you with "please reboot now or else" screens every 15 minutes, it just lets you continue your work and reboot when you're finished. You can also just kill the notification process if the kernel update won't affect you (e.g. minor exploit in a feature or fixes for drivers you don't use).

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Anonymous Coward]

Changing the hostname on Linux or almost any other *nix: $ sudo hostname new hostname That's it.

You forgot modifying /etc/hosts and restarting every SSL or secure connection package that actually checks the hostname vs IP and binds to it. This includes modifying DNS as well for apps like sendmail, Apache, and most net enabled services. Sure you can do it without rebooting, but if you have a new kernel from the last update and/or just want to make sure the latest software updates can come up on their own after a power failure, rebooting isn't a bad idea.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[binary paladin]

Static IPs required a reboot to change. I'm pretty sure that's what's being talked about.

(I still have to reboot to change my workgroup, even in Vista.)

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you mean, an African or a European Red Hat?

Re:let's reboot this joke

[tyroneking]

"when free of malware" - oh the irony

Re:let's reboot this joke

[blitzkrieg3]

http://www.cameron.edu/~dawne/ipaddress.html

...Click OK to exit the Network settings.

You will be prompted to reboot your system.

That last line is the most important

Re:let's reboot this joke

[dissy]

I haven't used Windows in a long time so I'm not sure if it's still true, but XP wasn't terrible (when free of malware)

That is exactly what I want to hear about a product for sale...

It wasn't terrible, except the times it was.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[cecom]

Nope, the joke stays :-) You still have to reboot when you upgrade your f*ing web browser. Or other blatantly non-core shit like that.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[blitzkrieg3]

But we're not past the days when you need to reboot Windows for a lot of things you can do in Linux without rebooting.

I agree, but that doesn't make the joke funny again. I'd also point out that reboot prompts happen freqently in OS X, and in distros of linux for things like dbus upgrades, even though the tech savvy user usually knows which initscript to restart.

Some jokes are nearly immortal, because they're just funny. One of my favorites outdates automobiles.

The problem with that analogy is, while I've heard the joke before, I'm not forced to hear it 3 times a week.

A sterotypical example of a joke going bad is the RickRoll. You hated being a victim, but for a week or two it was kind of cool that everyone standardized on a universally accepted terrible video that they wanted to trick people into visiting. After that it got annoying and unoriginal, so other good netizens pointed out when you were getting rolled. Now you go down to your neighborhood bar and the DJ is playing it on the dance floor, and everyone laughs because they're in on the joke. Nevermind that you've been in on the joke for about 8 months now, and the joke was never that good to begin with, and just because you know what's happening doesn't mean we should be subjected to Rick Astley's musical stylings at the local hangout, the ball game, or the thanksgiving day parade

We've also reached that point with "In Soviet Russia..."

Re:let's reboot this joke

[blitzkrieg3]

You guys referring to kexec()? I don't think they're contemplating moving running processes and services over to the new kernel scot free. More like you shut down all your services, kexec() the new kernel, and wait for it to boot.

Basically it's a fancy way of getting around the BIOS POST and all that. No small feat in and of itself, but hardly what you're contemplating.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Anonymous Coward]

XP wasn't terrible

You're right, but isn't that the version where the "fixed" the blue screen by causing the machine to reboot for no obvious reason. Anyway, XP wasn't terrible. It totally sucked, but was eventually patched into a reasonably usable system and not quite terrible system. Someday Vista won't be terrible either.

Still, the whole story is a joke. Surface isn't the best way to do this. We all know this is another SuperBowl advertisement. Microsoft offers them tens of millions in hardware and support and gets press like this. And you don't want us to make fun of it? Bah!

Re:let's reboot this joke

[Cousin Scuzzy]

You don't have to reboot. Just restart the surface server service.

Service.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[batkiwi]

If they'd chosen Linux instead they wouldn't have drivers for the touchscreen. On to of that audio would drop out randomly and GPU accellerated video wouldn't work with their ATI graphics card.

(posted from my mythbuntu machine...)

Re:let's reboot this joke

[ozphx]

I find it usually can deal. If you hit 'later' and restard the suspicious looking services, then it works fine. Same with most installers - telling them to bugger off with the reboot usually has no ill effect.

I'm guessing because the reboot takes bugger all time, and its really not possible to know what 3rd party crap depends on stuff thats been changed the only option is to reboot if you want to guarantee that all the dependants are going to deal with changes...

Re:let's reboot this joke

[goodie3shoes]

and while we're at it can we please not start a sentence with an adverb? Please write instead of "hopefully" "I hope that.........."

Re:let's reboot this joke

[DDLKermit007]

Yeah...for those of us who have used Surface...it's not even a joke. The damn thing crashes like clockwork. It's got a very robust way of handling it, but it blows ass if your trying to do something with it and you get an error stating the damn thing is restarting yet again! The damn things less reliable than Windows 98.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[drinkypoo]

Less. Seriously.

Cite? Anyone can watch their incoming traffic and see immediately that the holes in windows get probed orders of magnitude more often.

Re:let's reboot this joke

[mcgrew]

I agree, but that doesn't make the joke funny again

It never stopped being funny. When you don't have to reboot windows any more often than other OSes, then it will stop being funny.

Of course, if you're forced to use windows (like I am at work) the joke's on YOU so of course you won't think it's funny.

The problem with that analogy is, while I've heard the joke before, I'm not forced to hear it 3 times a week

You probably would have in 1910.

In Soviet Russia, government laughs at YOU.

What could possibly go wrong?

[2names]

Talk amongst yourselves...

How does it work in event of failure?

[eln]

Does it interpret a system crash as an attack on central command and launch the missiles?

Seriously though, this seems as useless as that magic screen thingie they're always playing with on CNN. Sure, it looks pretty, but using brand new technology like this, with its inherent glitches, in a system that you need to be constantly up and highly responsive is not a wise thing to do.

Re:How does it work in event of failure?

[ishmalius]

You beat me to it. I despise that "magic screen" and get the feeling that they are pandering and condescending at the same time. Like we should be so amazed by their wizardly skills. How exactly does it add value to their news product? If they want to show tech for its own inherent value, maybe they should just play some Demoscene or something.

Oh no, I can see it now...

[mergy]

It will start out fine and about 30 minutes in the security officers will probably just go in and disable security alerts like all Windows users do after a while.

"Don't notify me and don't display the icon (not recommended)"

A good application

[CXI]

I apologize for responding seriously in this MS bashing thread, but anyway this looks to be an excellent application for surface technology. Assuming that they have the manpower and peripheral interfaces to update this situation map in real time, it could be amazing. Even just for managing traffic flow and where to stage people. In fact, if I were a part of it I'd want there to be multiple units, each dedicated and customized for different purposes: fire/rescue; traffic; police; public works; transit; etc.

Re:A good application

[AnthropomorphicRobot]

I had exactly the same thought. I previously worked in a research group on a similar, multi-user multi-touch table, and it often felt like it was a cool technology in search of real use cases. We often pitched our platform as for planning & real-time military command & control.

This has potential to be a great improvement over current technology. Let's hope they publish more information & videos afterwards to see how it really performed on the big day

Re:A good application

[AnalPerfume]

That's what I was thinking, it's the first real world application for Surface, although I wouldn't trust any M$ software to hold up in a mission critical application. The last thing you'd want in a riot control scenario is your planning desk to suddenly tell you it can't find foo.dll and blue screen on you.

That aside, wouldn't it be just like Microsoft to implement a new licensing model for this, like the schools. Schools (under some licensing conditions) had to buy a Windows license for every PC in the building, regardless of how many of those PC's were going to be running Windows. This could be exploited the same way, where the cost is worked out on the number of people working from that control room, with values on each rank....a per attendee fee. (Bought and paid for) Politicians get in free, assuming they continue to remember their duties of course.

On a funnier note, many areas are associated with their local sports teams and colors. Wouldn't other areas demand a screen of death in THEIR local colors? I mean, if blue is associated with your local rivals, it's like a slap in the face from them on match day if their colors suddenly wash over you in the control room. It's not good for the blood pressure when you want to be thinking calmly about rebooting and hoping the situation don't spiral out of control by the time the application comes back to life.

Re:A good application

[dwarg]

Exactly! The future is here... and it's a big-ass table.

Re:A good application

[_Sprocket_]

...it often felt like it was a cool technology in search of real use cases.

That's the general idea that came to my mind. "Oh look, Microsoft finally found a problem to go with their answer." But is it really a good fit?

CNN was showing some pictures from the Obama inauguration that day. They had some reporter standing in front of a huge touch screen doing all these gestures to pull up, enlarge, then stack photos. Then as if to really force the point, he did a "crumple in to a ball" effect one one image. I found myself thinking that this all was some kind of dog-and-pony show to highlight either CNN's vendor or their commitment to out-flashing FOX News. Nothing about it helped me get a feel for the story being reported on.

And I'm kind of wondering if that's where we'll get with this sort of situation too. Lots of flash. Some feeling of importance and being equipped. But not actually better prepared to handle the task at hand.

Re:A good application

[Cally]

"Oh look, Microsoft finally found a problem to go with their answer."

What problem was that, "compute the trajectory of an office chair propelled at 2 m/s out of an office window"?

Re:A good application

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I find that the screen and the hand waving it generates very distracting. I find myself analyzing the interface instead of paying attention to the story. CNN should get rid of the thing.

Re:A good application

[Mr. No Skills]

I agree with the other reply poster. I'm not sure how this is really any leap past the more traditional projection with a large screen and more common pointing devices. It's sure out of reach for people with mobility issues to stand up and wave their arms around, and leaning over a table obviously only lets a few people look down.

Re:A good application

[unccharles]

I think the primary benefit on the news reporter type of use case is to the reporter more than to you. It's an interface that facilitates talking to other people while still manipulating the visualizations better than traditional interfaces. I agree, from the audience perspective there's no real difference unless greater 'comfort' with the technology comes across as more focus by the reporter on the issues. Much like the on screen tablet that is used by football commentators, the technology facilitates their reaching out to you.

Re:A good application

[Rich0]

Yeah, but most likely this table will just end up in the office of the super-big-wigs and nobody actually doing any real work will get near it.

Traffic management? They're going to be looking at 500 camera images and listening to reports on the radio from the helicopters. Sure, maybe all that data will end up on the big screen that the mayor and director of security are staring at as well. So, the guys running the traffic show will probably get the occassional micromanagement directive like "make sure you get that red zone on the beltway taken care of - maybe we should send some squad cars over there to direct traffic" when chances are the guys actually dealing with the mess already know about it and have identified a different and more effective solution. You might also have the occasional individual $20/hr guard getting paged directly by the mayor or FBI director or whatever and given an order to check the 3rd door on the left.

I see it all the time in businesses with the marketing of "dashboard technology" - giving realtime displays of information to management. Typically it is deployed so high up in the company that the manager can only use it to scream at his subordinates, and the subordinates who actually have the power to control what happens on the dashboard aren't allowed anywhere near it. Ditto with financial reporting - some low-level manager is clubbed on the head for constantly missing his budget figures, but the reporting is only available to somebody three levels higher and only after the month has closed. If the bottom-rung supervisor actually could run the reports themselves maybe twice a week they could see the trends and maybe actually do something abou ti.

No, what this surface implementation is all about is some bigwig was watching CSI Miami and yelled at his IT group that they were clearly behind the times and that he needed some big clear glass displays all over the place. Not able to convince him that it was really all just special effects and not particularly useful they went ahead and bought the closest thing that actually exists. They all got bonsues, and while lots of money got spent the reality will probably be that this superbowl will be run in the same way as every prior one in the ways that actually matter (how the guys on the bottom rung actually get the direction to do their jobs).

Re:A good application

[_Sprocket_]

The problem with that is not that there's a lack of benefit for the audience, it's that it becomes distracting. The whole experience seemed more like a "whoa - look at what I can do NOW" situation than "I've got some thing I'd like to show you, let me get it."

I've seen touch screen tech being used effecively, sure. Weather reporters come to mind. I don't watch much football, but if memory serves it's much the same thing. The indidual gets to write on the screen much like a whiteboard. That works. The gestures are often a part of the explanation (Team A moves this direction or Highs push the front in that direction). But, as another poster commented, when all the hand waving becomes a distraction you know your interface is failing it's intended purpose - aiding in the presentation.

Re:Oh no... Well, since they sided somewhat with

[davidsyes]

hollywood, it will be a GREEN SCREEN of DEATH...

But, will it be matte or finish?

It'll bring new meanings to CG-eye, CGI and CGI..

(yeh, lame...)

A whole new meaning to

[zappepcs]

Security vulnerability... ba bum bump..

Seriously, I can't wait for the real security malfunctions with this. The jokes will be real groaners on the surface, but I'm sure each incident report-ed will be funny enough to make a penguin laugh!

Aliens

[pieisgood]

Any one reminded of the Aliens monitor? Except without 80's input, we have multi-touch interaction?

Re:What about Apple's touch screen patents?

[Glonk]

Apple was far from the first company to implement multi-touch, it's just the first people think of. Multi-touch, and its patents, go back for quite a long time.

If past performance is any indication

[Zerth]

I have an idea of when the next terrorist attack will happen.

Or at least if this affects event security like Windows affects network security.

Terrorists, here's your chance!

[Murpster]

If Osama reads /. there's gonna be some dead football people.

One could only hope...

[Doug52392]

... that the damn thing doesn't BSoD 5 minutes before the game starts...

Hmm. I wonder...

[fahrbot-bot]

With a quick hand-gesture, the map can zoom in and display a 3D image of the city...

...what that "quick hand-gesture" might be?

Re:Hmm. I wonder...

[yenne]

...what that "quick hand-gesture" might be?

... and whether Apple now has a patent on it.

Re:Microsoft and Security in the same sentence....

[BadERA]

Lame -- the device is being used to display contextual data in a relevant fashion. This is an excellent use of this device and its interface metaphor.

Also, FWIW, MS powers some of the world's tightest access/egress systems.

Security theater

[Animats]

Now that's security theater. Elaborate "incident management" systems tend to be overkill. This sounds like something Microsoft dreamed up, not something a big-city fire chief or a SWAT team commander would ask for.

Re:Security theater

[nwf]

Sounds like something Microsoft dreamed up because they have no real good uses for Surface and the Super Bowl gets lots of press. They are probably "donating" a ton of money and/or equipment to use Surface.

Serious Question

[Enderandrew]

Forgive me for interrupting with a serious question, but what benefit does Surface offer in securing the Super Bowl?

Having this expensive multi-touch table will help, how?

This sounds like some rich NFL exec wanting to show off a shiny toy for the gimmick factor, and Microsoft wanting publicity.

However, I really fail to see any practical use of Surface here.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

If you watch the video it gives a brief example. If something started to happen, looking at a paper map you wouldn't have an clear idea of where your troops are, what they are monitoring or the severity of what they were monitoring, etc. Having all of that real time on a map allows them to easily redirect their man power to where it's needed, without taking it away from where they are already needed. If there is an incident at Point A, you can immediately see what available troops are nearby. Not only does it track where troopers are but what parties/activities are happening and where. It should save a lot of time of gathering and assessing data that would be critical in a time of crisis.

Re:Serious Question

[Enderandrew]

Having a map update with real time data requires Surface? Since when?

Re:Serious Question

[The End Of Days]

Nothing here "requires" Surface, but it does provide a more natural interface for the task at hand - which counts for a hell of a lot in the world outside Slashdot.

I'm kinda weirded out by how many people seem offended by this. Sorry everybody. Microsoft is capable of good work. Have some crazy glue to reconstruct your poor shattered worldviews.

Re:Serious Question

[Enderandrew]

I'm not offended. I just don't see how Surface helps or is relevant.

I'm not a huge Microsoft hater, though I acknowledge they've used illegal tactics. I administer Microsoft systems for a living, and I use some of their products at home still.

Re:Serious Question

[gknoy]

I think it would be useful to have a large-screen display which is easily manipulable -- "war room" style. (They can always have another projection of it for those who need read-only access.) It's a bit easier to collaborate when you can see in meatspace where others are pointing, or going to point, rather than having dueling light pens / mice.

Re:Serious Question

[Culture20]

I envision the security guys dressed up in Imperial French uniforms, with reaching-sticks moving around virtual National Guard units on the Surface board.
"If we flank the crowd here, they can't riot here"
"Yes, but they can still cut off our supply line if they turn over enough cars behind us here"
"Then we deploy Brown-note and Microwave-pain ordinance in a crossfire on that spot"
"Brilliant!"

Re:Serious Question

[Enderandrew]

Big displays have existed for a long time. Multiple pointers in a GUI have existed for a long time.

I'm sitting at a table, and I can only manipulate what I can physically reach. You've got 50 chefs in the pot.

This is an improvement over several people sitting at their own computers with a mouse, able to interact with the whole map, or if they only have permission to give orders for a small portion, then why not have that portion as their terminal, with the big display in the room for overall supervision.

I just don't see how this technology actually improves anything there.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

what benefit does Surface offer in securing the Super Bowl?

It's cheaper than free. I'm sure Microsoft is paying them to use it.

Re:Serious Question

[ozphx]

I wouldn't mind a big-ass table with a big-ass map on it. Typical war-room table. Then I guess instead of having little figurines I move around with shuffle board sticks, having them as icons would be better.

Then I guess being able to interact with it would be useful - and I suppose a mouse would do, it would be easier to just touch the damn thing.

I probably would be interested in zooming the map, getting further information on resources on the map, etc, etc

Kinda narrowing down the avaliable products that do this... ... or I could just stick with a non-interactive big ass table, and try to remember every piece of data about all my resources - or pin them up somewhere else.

Re:Serious Question

[unccharles]

Not being a visualization person, I've been pretty skeptical of this technology myself. However, I've been in the room with similar touch technologies that facilitate multiple people working with the interface together. It works better than some might think if they haven't seen a group of non-tech people using it together on a real world scenario. My experience has been with people with various backgrounds standing around various views of regional data couple with analytical data debating policy implications of data. The technology promotes exploring in a collaborative manner that you can't get when one person is driving. I suspect the super bowl scenario will have a similar experience - it will act as a facilitating technology for people to centralize informed discussions around.

Re:Serious Question

[Enderandrew]

I get that having multiple people centered around a large viewscreen able to comment on the data can be extremely useful.

However, not only do I fail to see how Surface improves upon multiple people viewing the same data on individual screens while talking together (WebEx session anyone?), but I'm concerned with practical limitations of a table.

I see something four feet away from me on the table, but I can't interact with it because I can't physically touch it.

A touch table is specifically useful in casinos (where Surface is predominately displayed currently) because it invites users to interact and play.

But I'm not sure how it helps secure the Super Bowl. You may be right in that if I saw the implementation I would be convinced. I haven't asserted definitively that it doesn't help. I'm saying I don't understand how it does help, wondering if someone does know how specifically, they would explain it to a simpleton like me.

Re:Serious Question

[Anonymous Coward]

"what benefit does Surface offer in securing the Super Bowl?"

It means that there will actually be something interesting going on at the superbowl. While the nation is watching a 5-hour-long beer commercial, some geeks will get to play with cool new toys.

With a quick hand-gesture?

[Bearhouse]

Am I the only one thinking 'Minority Report' here?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/

Re:With a quick hand-gesture?

[Random BedHead Ed]

Probably not, but I was actually thinking that the best use of one of these display tables has nothing to do with the touch features: rather, it's to monitor the firing angle of an approaching Death Star as it gradually creeps around a large gas giant. I guess there's not much use for that during the Super Bowl. Still, a program that does that should come free with every Surface.

Mons Venus

[JoelMartinez]

I bet it's mainly gonna be used to give people directions to the mons

Re:Mons Venus

[Jeian]

Who needs directions? It's literally right down the street from RayJay. :P

Re:Mons Venus

[bwy]

The strip club across the street that is modeled after a UFO is a lot more geek friendly though. What geek doesn't dream of getting a lap dance in a UFO?

Ah, who couldn't love dear Tampa?

Re:What about Apple's touch screen patents?

[powerlord]

In fairness, Apple is the first one that provided multi-touch en-masse to a large install base though.

Not surprising.

[Kaenneth]

A lot of development into touch/multitouch interfaces has been funded by the US military.

Sand/toxins can get into a keyboard or mouse and be very very difficult to clean out, but a MS Surface type display/input can just be wiped with a damp cloth, sterilized, etc. if you use a low enough power CPU/GPU you could seal the processing components away from hazards as well.

I doubt the security systems will be public facing, as that would be a security risk... so this probably isn't funded as a promotion by MS, the security folks may actually like it.

Re:Not surprising.

[AioKits]

Plus, I imagine the military would get a huge stiffy if they had a decent working 'virtual sandtable' they could deploy in the field. Even in planning training exercises it could be immensely popular.

Re:Not surprising.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sand/toxins can get into a keyboard or mouse and be very very difficult to clean out

So the US military's approach to creating a sealed input device is to make a huge expensive fragile heavy touch screen table?
Because, you know, that makes sense because creating a sealed keyboard is so difficult

Stand-by Chiropractor

[uvsc_wolverine]

I feel kinda sorry for the poor bastard who has to stand over it staring at the screen for 4+ hours. He's gonna have a serious neck/back ache.

Re:Stand-by Chiropractor

[Anonymous Coward]

By default, the Microsoft Surface is made for sitting around, and the height of the device reflects this.

For situations like this, the device is usually built in a custom enclosure to bring it to standing height.

The device can be used for hours without discomfort when it is at the right height for the surroundings.

Re:Stand-by Chiropractor

[uvsc_wolverine]

Good to know. I had no idea they had done this. All of the demos I've seen on-line look like sitting around a dining room/coffee table.

Negative

[Idiomatick]

I know lets all hate on the giant table. But its minority report irl thats awesome, sure its probably pointless but its cool. I dream a day when all my furniture is computers.... Really that wouldnt be that cool but the table computer is somewhat feasible. I figure anything commonly used in movies and tv shows is worth a shot.

Re:Negative

[dangitman]

I dream a day when all my furniture is computers....

Well, good news then. Ballmer has a prototype big-ass chair to go with the big-ass table.

Still as valid as ever

[SuperKendall]

Can we please retire that joke? I haven't used Windows in a long time so I'm not sure if it's still true, but XP wasn't terrible (when free of malware) and that joke is really getting tired and unfunny.

Well I have used Windows off and on, recently (and unfortunatley). The joke is a good one because it's as true as ever.

I give you two anecdotes, both with a new Vista laptop.

In the first case, the system would not read a USB stick. In an effort to debug why, I simply tried to run Control Panel to look at the device list. That locked up explorer so hard the system needed, yep, a reboot.

The other case was similar, I was in a presentation and the presenter had a Vista laptop. Just as she was beginning the presentation, Windows Update kicked in with an uninterruptible update (at least there was no visual way to delay it). She had to speak free-form for about five minutes while the update finished, and then - yep, a reboot.

What Vista supporters overlook is that the well-oiled machines they interact with day to day because they know how to maintain Windows are not the systems the rest of the world sees. In the hands of real users, Vista is still the Windows we know from all the classic jokes.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[SuiteSisterMary]

In the first case, the system would not read a USB stick. In an effort to debug why, I simply tried to run Control Panel to look at the device list. That locked up explorer so hard the system needed, yep, a reboot.

Hardware issue, likely.

The other case was similar, I was in a presentation and the presenter had a Vista laptop. Just as she was beginning the presentation, Windows Update kicked in with an uninterruptible update (at least there was no visual way to delay it). She had to speak free-form for about five minutes while the update finished, and then - yep, a reboot.

User couldn't be bothered to tell Windows Update to silently download, but require direct user intervention to install. Or her IT department had really stupid settings. Neither of these are Windows-specific in any way.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[FlyingBishop]

I'll grant the USB stick, but I've never seen a Mac or a Linux box forcibly install software and then reboot. That's just shoddy programming. Hell, you can run apt-get upgrade on a Debian box without anyone even noticing.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[Blakey Rat]

I'll grant the USB stick, but I've never seen a Mac or a Linux box forcibly install software and then reboot. That's just shoddy programming. Hell, you can run apt-get upgrade on a Debian box without anyone even noticing.

The point is that it's a SETTING, and her computer's behavior was not the default setting for Vista. You can also set really retarded settings in OS X or Linux, having a retarded setting is not OS-specific.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[Chabo]

her computer's behavior was not the default setting for Vista

Ummm... last I heard, default for Windows post-XP-SP2 is "Auto download, auto install". Now, I set it to "Notify only", but I'm pretty sure Vista is "Auto download, auto install" too, by default. Good for security, bad for usability.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[SuperKendall]

Hardware issue, likely.

I've never had another OS where the tools you are supposed to use to diagnose hardware ailments fail because of hardware ailments.

Neither of these are Windows-specific in any way.

Typical Vista supporter, blame the victim for a default behavior that sucks and interrupted the instructor for a paid seminar whose students all had to sit around and wait for Vista - and there's simply no excuse for not having an obvious way to dismiss it when it did come up, no matter how anyone had it set. The whole "You must wait for Windows now because we say so" is the whole reason I jumped over to Linux/Mac use in the first place, and it's absurd it's here bigger and bolder than ever in 2000 freaking 9.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[Blakey Rat]

Ummm... last I heard, default for Windows post-XP-SP2 is "Auto download, auto install". Now, I set it to "Notify only", but I'm pretty sure Vista is "Auto download, auto install" too, by default. Good for security, bad for usability.

You're right, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a person being *forced off* the computer to install the patch. Vista won't do that by default. The default in Vista is to wait until 3:00 AM local time and install/restart then. Unless this conference was being given at 3:00 AM, there's no way it was Vista's default behavior.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[shaitand]

'You're right, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a person being *forced off* the computer to install the patch. Vista won't do that by default. The default in Vista is to wait until 3:00 AM local time and install/restart then. Unless this conference was being given at 3:00 AM, there's no way it was Vista's default behavior.'

The problem is that the default behavior of vista is to download and install software (potentially bad software) without user intervention or even user notification unless the install is successful and system comes back online.

The conference not being at 3am would just be coincidence. One time is as good as another and if said conference was an international one then 3am is a reasonable possibility. If for one have a computer usage that typically involves being in the middle of work at 3am.

Re:Still as valid as ever

[Blakey Rat]

The problem is that the default behavior of vista is to download and install software (potentially bad software) without user intervention or even user notification unless the install is successful and system comes back online.

Have you even *used* Vista? You're getting wronger and wronger as time goes on.

The conference not being at 3am would just be coincidence. One time is as good as another and if said conference was an international one then 3am is a reasonable possibility. If for one have a computer usage that typically involves being in the middle of work at 3am.

Please. The conference was not at 3:00 AM. You're just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks while trying to argue against a perfectly reasonable feature implementation from Microsoft.

Yes, I get it: you hate Windows. The very thought that Windows might be on a computer makes you puke from disgust. But seriously, stop the FUD.

Zero Day Expert

[EGenius007]

If there's a Zero Day exploit to be found, my money is on Dion Rich.

Re:"MINORITY" REPORT

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you might mean "literal", not "literary".

cheap

[mistahkurtz]

Hopefully it wont have to reboot after every new incident report.

am i the only one getting tired of these lame "look at how clever i am bashing big bad microsoft" pot shots?

seriously, have a little dignity and self-respect. treat other people like they actually use their brains (even if you don't).

Won't you idiots ever enter this decade?

[Anonymous Coward]

opefully it wont have to reboot after every new incident report.

ffs im so tired of this damn site... if any of you had even attempted to use windows in this decade at all you would realize you rarely have to restart for anything but the most critical patches, which are often shared libraries for many applications and services. (I would even argue restarting in that case isn't so much as required as it is just a good idea to save you the time of closing all applications and services depandent on the shared libraries, and only required when the kernel/drivers are updated.)

Linux is only slightly better with this. You must still reboot if the kernel is upgraded, much like with windows. Just because most applications would prefer you restart to ensure all shared resources have been unloaded doesn't mean a reboot is required. Most installers simply end with a reboot option because they really want you to see the new notification icon has loaded. (notification icons are yet another matter you idiots can't grasp. This is not microsoft's fault, its the application developers.)

Seriously, the conversation over at 4chan has been better than the last few months here at slashdot. All I ever seem to see here anymore is idiots bashing something they appear to have not used in at least 12 years.

(I will concede that drivers shouldn't require a reboot either but meh)

Karma to burn

[hobbit]

Make all the BSOD/reboot jokes you like, but I'm excited by Microsoft Surface.

I'm a die-hard Apple fan, and I *really* want to see something like the Surface from them. I'm hoping that Microsoft will be successful enough to spur them into making a tablet (just like I'm hoping that Android Marketplace will be successful enough to encourage Apple to be less draconian with their App Store policies).

A different perspective

[QuietLagoon]

I wonder what could be done with this type of interface. It certainly would be a lot less expensive than Microsoft's Surface, and you wouldn't be locked into an operating system that is stuck in the 90's.

surface

[rpillala]

One day, your security arrangements will be a bigass table.

Only in America...

[Doug52392]

... does a company use something as serious as protecting large amounts of people from danger as free publicity for some "innovative" new product.

What ever happened to just saying "Sure, we'll help protect American lives!" Now it's "Sure, we'll help protect American lives with our SLEEK, INNOVATIVE NEW TOUCH SCREEN COMPUTER, the Microsoft Surface(tm), revolutionizing how you use your computer!".

Re:Only in America...

[The Cydonian]

Nope, I can say with certainity that a similar project is being done in another part of the world. Just that, Surface hasn't been "officially" released in some markets.

Given the multiple sources of information that we often have to deal with, there's a lot of good work to be done in terms of data-visualisation for threat-perception matrices, Surface being one of the many things you can implement. There's obviously some branding going on now, but hey, the way I see it, _any_ tech-branding is good in these uncertain times.

Re:A better Application

[supernova_hq]

I kind of agree with both of you, and disagree on a different note.

Pro Table: A visual representation IS useful, don't get rid of the text dump, but having a security guard that can see where all their personnel are located at a glance is VERY useful. Humans can also monitor swarms and patters visually much faster and more reliably than any IA can.

Con Table: The table idea itself is very sound (as long as they don't replace anything with it). My problem is the actual use of the table! They should be using something much cheaper, move expandable and more reliable than the one offered by Microsoft. Linux multi-touch displays are very cheap to build and very robust and reliable. They can also handle a LOT of processing and different inputs.

Someone needs to start selling plexi-glass projector/IR-LED/webcam displays commercially at reasonable prices (I would buy one). Paying $2000+ (not counting the server) for a table that can be built for $50 is ridiculous.

In short: great idea, don't replace anything, use something other than Microsoft's version.

What's with the video?!

[chihowa]

Were you watching the same video that I was? The only video in the article was one of a cameraman getting what must have been a great shot of the big-ass-table in action. Too bad we couldn't get that video!

Think Tank FTL

[TheRealJobe]

Yea! Slashdot fan boys BSOD jokes never get old... Even when it goes off without a hitch you'll find some way to spin it. Slashdot... Fair and balanced ZING!

Where's the Computer Security Version?

[Gyorg_Lavode]

So basically, I'd like the exact same thing except a diagram of my network generated from my sensors/networking equipment. I want IDS events to pop up on it, firewall hits to be graphically represented, network changes to show up. Hell, hook in the Configuration Management system to show me where the changes will occur before they do and where changes occur that had no CM equivalent.

I'm very much an advocate for touch screen management of sitautions. I'd love to have the Computer Security equivalent to their screen infront of me or my Network Security Operators with a projection onto the wall infront of us.

Microsoft ?? and Security ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Does not compute...

Does noy compute...

CPU explodes.

Hope it actually works!

[Anonymous Coward]

The only Microsoft Surface that I ever saw in person was in the lobby of Microsoft's Bldg. 19 (their HR bldg.) in Redmond. It was used to "wow" potential employees. Problem was the thing kept crashing. The lobby "concierge" told me that "they" were coming out to replace this one again because it had issues. They replaced it during lunch. However, the new one didn't seem to work either.

The answer is searching for a question...

[rts008]

If it rains, you can take shelter under it??? :-)

Why stop there?

[westlake]

Can we please retire that joke?

The stained glass Window and the Borg icon could be trashed as well.

Re:Why stop there?

[artor3]

... the Borg icon should be trashed as well.

Fixed that for you.

Honestly, the people who find that icon funny are the ones who spell MS with a dollar sign.

1984

[Anonymous Coward]

WELCOME to Microsoft Big Brother - Who do you want to oppress today?

Minority Report

[Tau_Xi]

You know, I'd say it's really cool because it's like the Minority Report computers, but...does it also shit out marbles?

A threat ...

[PPH]

...was detected just outside the west entrance. Using 'Surface' we simply tapped on it and dragged it to the trash can icon. Mission accomplished.

Re:A threat ...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a Recycle bin. Apple use the trash can because they are bought by people who don't care about the environment...

Re:What about Apple's touch screen patents?

[Kryis]

Maybe Apple should patent providing old tech en-masse to a large install base then. Patents are meant to protect innovative solutions so that the people in question get a chance to make some money from their invention before everyone else does. From what I have seen on the patent, most of its key claims involve gestures which are (imo) the obvious solution to the problem.

It's not about BSODs anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

The BSOD has always been a sore subject for Windows. But even as a stable OS, it's still very vulnerable. And Microsoft's neglect for security isn't helping. It took them seven years to patch a critical flaw in the server service. The flaw was present in Windows 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista and Windows Server 2008.

And then there was MS08-078 which addressed the same vulnerability in three different versions of IE. IE 5.01, 6, 7 and even the latest beta, IE8 was potentially at risk.

Who knows what components Surface has in it. Microsoft ties their applications together. Even if surface itself doesn't have any vulnerabilities, applications it relies on might have.

Irrelevant

[SuperKendall]

The point is that it's a SETTING

That's not the point at all, even though you are wrong about what is the default.

The point is that even if that is a setting, when the computer starts up the process the user should be able to back out of it. There have been a number of OS X updates that required a restart, but at any time in the update process I could decide I really did not want to restart and wait days if needed for a time of MY choosing. That's why I can leave OS X updates at the default setting which is auto-download, because I know I have about the updates going forward when it will work for me, the user.

Re:Irrelevant

[Blakey Rat]

That's not the point at all, even though you are wrong about what is the default.

The default is to wait on the install until 3:00 AM, then install/restart then. Unless this talk was being given at 3:00 AM, there's no way this was the default behavior of Windows Vista. You're probably attached to a domain that has a rule forcing updates to happen more often.

Again, like I said, that is a *setting* that somebody has *changed*. The default for Vista is to only install updates at 3:00 AM local time.

I have no idea why people are saying I'm wrong on this. All Vista DVDs are the same, right? Or am I in some kind of bizarro fantasy-land?

Re:Irrelevant

[shaitand]

'I have no idea why people are saying I'm wrong on this. All Vista DVDs are the same, right? Or am I in some kind of bizarro fantasy-land?'

You are simply ignoring the fact that people are saying that said vista default is a problem and blindly continuing to pretend people are saying that something else is the problem.

The default is a problem, we are on a globe and interacting with people who aren't on local time. Having conferences at late local hours and doing work at late local hours. Not to mention the fact that many of us leave processes running when we step away from the machine that are interrupted on systems where we forget to change that poor default behavior.

Even without that, automatically downloading code from a source I don't trust and installing it without my permission is a serious security breach.

Last but not lease, requiring a reboot for anything short of kernel update is simply poor system design.

Really Blakey, is there some reason you can be seen all over this story making the same apologies for Vista and unsubstantiated claims that the entire world is mistaken and nobody has tried it?

Re:Irrelevant

[Blakey Rat]

You are simply ignoring the fact that people are saying that said vista default is a problem and blindly continuing to pretend people are saying that something else is the problem.

Ok; so how *should* Microsoft do it? If it doesn't install updates, they get chewed out for being insecure. If it lets people indefinitely delay updates, people don't install them, and they get chewed out for being insecure. If they make the updates happen automatically in the middle of the night, some crazy person is having a conference at 3:00 AM and they get chewed out for terrible usability.

What *should* they be doing? Which option would make you happy?

The default is a problem, we are on a globe and interacting with people who aren't on local time. Having conferences at late local hours and doing work at late local hours. Not to mention the fact that many of us leave processes running when we step away from the machine that are interrupted on systems where we forget to change that poor default behavior.

Ok, so what percentage of people is that? 0.1%? 0.5%? It couldn't possibly be more than that.

Even without that, automatically downloading code from a source I don't trust and installing it without my permission is a serious security breach.

If you don't trust Microsoft, then:
1) Why the fuck are you running Windows?
2) Why the fuck are you running Windows and haven't turned off automatic updates?

This point is completely irrational. "I run my entire computer on a codebase I don't trust! And so I don't want small portions of additional code I also don't trust!"

Last but not lease, requiring a reboot for anything short of kernel update is simply poor system design.

I agree; but what OS does it right? Linux can't update shared libraries in memory any more than OS X or Windows can. Sure, maybe they *should* be able to, but we're living here in the real world where nobody can.

Really Blakey, is there some reason you can be seen all over this story making the same apologies for Vista and unsubstantiated claims that the entire world is mistaken and nobody has tried it?

I have a knee-jerk reaction against bullshit, and when it comes to Vista, Slashdot in drowning in the stuff.

Mark one up for micros~1 marketing

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet one more case of them taking someone else's idea and making good marketing with it. That, and not their legendary shoddy code, is their real virtue.

More PR for Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

I see so many of these articles on Slashdot these days. Dressed up with a some joke or other about Windows rebooting or blue scrrens or whatever to give the impression that the article isn't just puff, and yet, that is exactly what it is.

PR is best when aimed at the unbelievers and Slashdot is the best place for Microsoft PR.

Can't trust anyone these days.

Am I the only one concerned here?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see a lot of people commenting about how this is bound to crash or arguing for a linux distro to do this job . . . But am I seriously the only person here that's concerned with what appears to be live security feeds of both buildings and streets feeding to the authorities?!? It seems like this whole system is a violation of fourth against unreasonable searches given that authorities will seemingly be able to track anyone in Tampa wherever they go.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

This sounds like one of the bigger big brother programs out there folks.

Re:Oh no... Well, since they sided somewhat with

[davidsyes]

Well, what the fuck? Did i piss off some hollywood-loving moderator?

"A problem has been detected and the Super Bowl has been shut down to protect your audience.

The problem seems to be caused by the following module: WARDROBE.DLL
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NIPPLE_AREA"

Gets funny, but being nerds here, there is not a flag for "vulgar"/"craven"/"nasty -level 3"

And:

Failure in security.dll. Abort, retry or ignore?

That's just TWO examples of why my argument still stands that lame-assed moderators need to be removed to make room for community-based moderation so that ONE moderator tail-spinning or skyrocketing someone's comments needs to be proto-moderated to punish mods who try to punish those who make comments. Damn you... You could have just left it at 1, insteading of sending it to 0, flamebait.

I suggest readers set level for >1, flamebait and counteract the scoring to torture the lame of the mods who try to get away with bitch-slapping people like me who can't make truly funny jokes that withstand the dumber mods. Smarter mods would have just left it alone, or tied it in with something else if they felt like being somewhat merciful, instead of merciless. But, i guess if i keep coming here, maybe it's cuz i want to get pissed on...

Magic SysRq

[DrYak]

but in practice you can have one process locking up even the data from the input devices, so you cannot even interact anymore.

Use the magic SysRq key.
[SysRq]+[R] : unRaws the keyboard - hands the keyboard control back to the system. After that, if the system is still responsive, you can [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F1] to the text console, log in as root and kill offending applications while everything else still works.

(Well, unless the offending application is the binary only drivers runnin in your Xorg server. Then all the graphic applications die together with the server when you kill it).

Well of course that require to have a keyboard still equipped with a SysRq key...

Memory leaks from e.g. flash applications or network-mounts that fall offline are some of the frequent reasons the system crashes in my case. It's very nasty, and worst of all, there doesn't seem to be much progress in this area, it's not much better than 10 years ago, maybe even worse.

Normally, a UNIX system will always reserve a small fraction of its resource for a root shell. That mean that even if an application has hogged all resources, there's still enough free resources to switch to a text console and log as root as explained above.
Well that require of course *having a real* root account (Ubuntu, I'm looking at you).

Then this only happens when all resources are hogged, which takes time on a modern machine with huge amounts of memory and disk. Until the machine is full, a properly configured kernel (optimised scheduler for a responsive desktop) is still responsive enough to open a terminal and "killall" the offending application, or "xkill" point'n'click the offender.
If your system gets too unresponsive, check if you can select a different scheduler or timer somewhere in your config tools/pannels, etc.
Some distro ship kernel with "compromise" settings - simply recompiling with "desktop" settings definitely improves the responsiveness even on derelict-old computers.

In worse situation, you can still
[SysRq]+[K] : Secure console - will kill all application on the current console and go back to login.
When used while Xorg is running, this has the effect of killing all running GUI applications, while still leaving the services and other daemons running untouched.

For network mounts, see the "lazy" and "force" options of umount.
lazy : the unmount procedure is put in background and the mount point is marked as "unmounted". So no further action can be done on it as if it was already unmounted, even if the unmount takes time.
Applications trying to access the moint point should get already "no access" errors.
force : umount the moint point, even if the network is un-responsive and the client can't tell the server it's unmounting.
 

Re:Magic SysRq

[pimpimpim]

Ok, had it twice today. Since it is at work, I have no root account to switch to. In practice, NFS hangs and all PCs are unresponsive for the next 5 minutes. Which is crazy, often it is even because of an NFS disk that was not actively being used. Thanks for your solutions to when it happens, but my reasoning is, it shouldn't even happen in the first place. There is no reason that xorg should stop responding just because an application using it is going bezerk.

Re:Magic SysRq

[DrYak]

but my reasoning is, it shouldn't even happen in the first place. There is no reason that xorg should stop responding just because an application using it is going bezerk.

Indeed, something is wrong here.
Probably a combination of bad scheduler and bugs in the NFS implementations (a stalled NFS shouldn't eat 100% CPU, it should just wait, and the system should yeild cycle to other application).

Well unless the sysadmin did something idiotic like puting some vital resources (like swap) over NFS in which case the whole system will stall as the whole system needs said resource.