Jack Thompson Attacks DoD, ESA, GTA With Utah Bill

eldavojohn writes "Delusional disbarred Miami attorney Jack Thompson claims to have a bill in the state of Utah that targets retailers and entire industries with the Truth in Advertising Law. The best part of his rant: 'Our military appropriately uses violent video games a) to suppress the inhibition to kill of new recruits, and b) to teach killing scenarios. Games have the same effect on civilian teens.' While GamePolitics couldn't find the bill on Utah's state site, they did receive a response from him claiming 'I have a sponsor and a bill, and [the video game] industry is in trouble.' For 2009 bills, there seems to be merely a bill enhancing the Truth in Advertising Law but does not contain any of Thompson's verbiage. Good 'ole Jack — always good for some laughs, but really he needs to give it up one of these days."

Comments

Hahahah

[Jaysyn]

Kick & scream all you want pig, you lose.

Re:Hahahah

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Kick & scream all you want pig, you lose

I think that's a dangerous attitude to take. There are a lot of people out there who don't know any better who will take seriously whoever is shouting loudest. For many years now, that person has been Jack Thompson.

The thing that makes him most dangerous is that there's an element of truth to his arguments. There's a minimal amount in there that makes the things he says plausible to those people who don't/can't educate themselves.

Re:Hahahah

[digitalunity]

Look on the bright side. He could get struck by lightning or hit by a bus randomly.

Fingers crossed...

Re:Hahahah

[maugle]

That may have been true before, when he was an actual lawyer. Not anymore, though.

Nobody's going to listen to the talking head introduced as "Jack Thompson: Disbarred Lawyer" who wasn't already convinced that video games are evil incarnate.

Re:Hahahah

[redcaboodle]

Nobody's going to listen to the talking head introduced as "Jack Thompson: Disbarred Lawyer" who wasn't already convinced that video games are evil incarnate.

Except for those who believe he was disbarred to silence him for annoying [important_group].

Re:Hahahah

[cbiltcliffe]

Or those who don't know he was disbarred, and he says "I'm Jack Thompson. I have a XXX law degree." or some other weasel verbiage that makes it sound like he's a lawyer without actually saying he's a lawyer.

Or heck, he could still be introducing himself as a lawyer, too. Wouldn't put it past him.

Re:Hahahah

[cbiltcliffe]

He could get struck by lightning or hit by a bus

...run over by a carjacker, shot by a sniper....

Re:Hahahah

[MartinSchou]

All at once? You'd think his life was a Calvin & Hobbes cartoon!

Re:Hahahah

[jythie]

Looks like he is going with 'recently practicing lawyer.'

Re:Hahahah

[mrmeval]

That is the hallmark of all propaganda. The really insidious propaganda is that which is 80 percent truth and the rest is carefully crafted misinformation. Jack the wonder popup is not subtle enough for that.

Re:Hahahah

[WNight]

Really though, he IS a lawyer in all but technicality. (For what little that's worth.) An insane one maybe, but the government merely took his license to practice, not his lifetime knowledge. As long as he's not offering to take a case for you...

It's not like the government is who I listen to in choosing who has the most accurate technical opinion in any given area. His credibility, IMHO, is right where it was before. (Zero, but for other reasons...)

Re:Hahahah

[rarity]

Look on the bright side. He could get struck by lightning or hit by a bus randomly.

Randomly. Sure.

Re:Hahahah

[Zashi]

AFAIK, state bars are not government institutions. They are a group of Lawyers. It's like lawyer government. By the people for the people. By lawyers for lawyers. Self-regulating and all that.

Re:Hahahah

[cbiltcliffe]

Nah. Wile E. and Roadrunner.

Video games vs Jack

[mgabrys_sf]

Video games never made me want to kill another (real) person. Jack Thompson on the other hand makes me want to kill - someone, possibly named Jack - every time I hear from Mr. Thompson.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Chabo]

He's made me want to get into racketeering!

Re:Video games vs Jack

[CannonballHead]

Playing devil's advocate... you're probably being somewhat sarcastic/facetious, but you are making a point. Being a proper devil's advocate, I thought I would point out that I don't know that most people believing in the games-cause-violence idea would say that games make people want to commit random acts of murder. Rather, that when tension builds/anger occurs, violence as an action comes more naturally than before the video-game-"conditioning." In other words, the fact that your reaction to J.T. is "kill Jack!" proves that the violent video games did have an effect - that is, they are affecting your reaction to something that displeases you.

Note: I'm not arguing for the position.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[plague3106]

That's the stupidist argument I've ever heard. Building tension / anger has lead to violence long before video games were ever created.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Trails]

I don't think the word "proves" means what you think it means...

Re:Video games vs Jack

[clarkkent09]

I don't play video games and my reaction is the same: "kill Jack!" I do like to play chess though. And I like to eat potato chips as well. Still can't decide if it's playing chess or eating potato chips that causes me to have that reaction? Hmmm, something to think about (if you are or should be in a mental institution).

Re:Video games vs Jack

[EastCoastSurfer]

You're right, but have video games led to move violence? I think a bigger area to look at would be how do things like the huge popularity in MMA affect today's youth. Are people more likely to fight because they are watching so much realistic violence all the time? Or, are things like violent video games, MMA, etc... simply reflecting our current society where violence appears to be more prevalent than in the past?

Re:Video games vs Jack

[genner]

I don't play video games and my reaction is the same: "kill Jack!" I do like to play chess though. And I like to eat potato chips as well. Still can't decide if it's playing chess or eating potato chips that causes me to have that reaction? Hmmm, something to think about (if you are or should be in a mental institution).

Chess was the murder simulator that introduced kings to killing scenarios and casued the crusades.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Trails]

Violence inducing regicide simulator, training kids to kill monarchs and towers and to move in L-shapes for centuries!!!

Re:Video games vs Jack

[CannonballHead]

And correlation is not causation. I agree.

Whether or not a correlation implies a causation is where more research comes in. If things aren't correlated at ALL, then causation is obviously NOT there. Causation necessitates correlation (at least, in my logic, I could be shown that it is in error though... at the moment seems pretty solid), so where there is a correlation, there might be a causation.

Unfortunately, most studies only point out correlations. And most "proofs" are actually just suggestions with some amount of good supporting arguments.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[CannonballHead]

But did (or, present tense, do) societies, and on a greater scale, entire civilizations, have more violence than others? ENJOY violence more than others?

Example. Did, say, the Puritans enjoy violence? Not really. Did... I don't know, pick a society or civilization known for peace. Did they enjoy violence? Assyrians appeared to. Romans definitely did. It seems that some civs and societies actually promoted it, while others did not appear to do so. America

So, as EastCoastSurfer pointed out, does violence in the entertainment industry actually AFFECT people, or is it simply reflecting our society? Are either one of these actually Good Things (tm)? (if it's reflecting society, is that a part of society that we WANT to reflect? If it's affecting society, is that how we want society to be affected?)

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Feanturi]

True story: I had a nightmare once when I was around 8 years old, in which I kept spotting people that were poised to kill me. I knew they meant to kill me because they were an L-shaped move away from wherever I was at the time. I knew they'd be able to jump over any obstacle between us and kill me instantly upon landing, so I kept having to run away thereby changing the positional advantage they had. But I would only wind up encountering someone else also that same relative position away from me, and have to run again. Had I not been exposed to chess, I would not have had to contend with this frightful situation. Clearly chess breeds violent thoughts and needs to be stamped out once and for all!

Re:Video games vs Jack

[pmbasehore]

Or, has the rise of MMORPGs like WoW and the like led to the rise of teenage witchcraft and mythical, fell creatures?

Seems like similar logic to me.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[dogmatixpsych]

Spurious comparison. Witchcraft and mythical creatures are not real (I know some would argue they are but we'll go with the assumption they are not). Violence is real though so your argument is invalid. You can't disprove a logical argument by constructing a similar argument using unreal elements.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[EastCoastSurfer]

It's probably had a hand in teenage obesity.

To think that people are not affected by their environment at all is just as bad as thinking every violent act leads back to a video game.

To use your logic kids with abusive parents should never have any problems later in life if what they experience every day has no long lasting affect on them.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[sabernet]

Throw Jack back to prehistory, thousands of years before videogames existed. I bet you he wouldn't survive the week!

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

I blame breast feeding!

Re:Video games vs Jack

[couchslug]

"Jack Thompson on the other hand makes me want to kill - someone, possibly named Jack - every time I hear from Mr. Thompson."

He's the Fred Phelps of anti-game zealots, which is why we NEED him. While it would be a hoot if he had responded to being disbarred by suicide, he is more useful alive and stupid.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Cowmonaut]

No, they haven't. Check the DoJ's website if you don't believe me. The more popular video games have gotten, the lower *actual* violence amongst youths has gone down. In 2003-5 it was at a FORTY YEAR LOW, at the supposed "height" of video game violence controversy.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[need4mospd]

I had a dream sorta like that, except replace "people that were poised to kill me" with "hot supermodels". And there were lots of pillows.

So clearly, chess breeds porn as well.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

Did, say, the Puritans enjoy violence? Not really. Did... I don't know, pick a society or civilization known for peace. Did they enjoy violence? Assyrians appeared to. Romans definitely did. It seems that some civs and societies actually promoted it, while others did not appear to do so.

Good grief. It's at least arguable that the Puritans, who put people in stocks for humiliation, slaughtered Indians, and burned, drowned, and crushed witches, enjoyed violence more than Romans did.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[MikeBabcock]

In other news, the world is full of idiots.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[CannonballHead]

At the risk of feeding the trolls...

Hmmm. Read some Puritans sometime.

Secondly, Rome built a Colosseum (and other structures, but that's the main one in Rome, of course) purely for entertainment, correct? And there they watched (and enjoyed watching) gladiators and slaves and criminals either killing each other or getting killed by animals, etc. And often very violent, such as putting freshly-killed-animal skins on a person, tying him or her to a post, and unleashing half starved lions. Yup, definitely less "enjoy-violence"-esque than punishing someone with public humiliation by putting them in stocks. Obviously, Puritans were far worse and loved violence far more. Putting someone in stocks and facing public humiliation is worse than death by being tied to a post naked with smelly animal skins and getting torn to shreds by lions in front of tens of thousands of people.

Right.

Witch burnings, I offer no defense, except that I wasn't trying to compare mobs to general society. Did they happen? Unfortunately, yes. Did all Puritans like it? No. Read some accounts of contemporary commentary.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't there members of his family who can get this man Thompson the medication and treatment he desperately needs? He's clearly mentally disturbed.

Must be the lack of gaming.....

Re:Video games vs Jack

[KDR_11k]

Well, overall violence went down, it's just reported more in the mass media. Also I don't think studies actually dealt with the difference between imagining violence and acting it out. Obviously it wouldn't be very easy to test whether the subjects are more likely to be unacceptably violent, i.e. not just punching a cushion in a controlled environment or something but actually harming people who don't want to be harmed, after all there's much less inhibition when you tell someone that he can use violence because you want to see it for your study. The really representative part would be to anger the subject in a situation where the subject doesn't suspect being part of the experiment and seeing if he's willing to use illegal violence there. IMO it's worthless to say people are more likely to act out violence when offered the chance or just have more violent thoughts, actually breaking the law is very different.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[KDR_11k]

So they didn't enjoy violence but they used it anyway. Perfect data point.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[KDR_11k]

Maybe you read Shakespeare and were influenced by "the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers".

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

Most anybody at his age wouldn't have survived thousands of years ago, life expectancy was what? Thirty?

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

Youth violence has been steadily falling since the mid 80s.. Coincidentally about the time that video game consoles started appearing in family homes across America.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[WCguru42]

simply reflecting our current society where violence appears to be more prevalent than in the past?

That's the funny thing about the argument. If you look to the past you will see that we are no more violent than we were then. Half a century ago there was no uproar over two boys having a fist fight at school, it was simply "boys will be boys" now move along. Now if you punch someone in school you have to go to therapy to deal with it. I'm not condoning hitting people but back in the day violence was tolerated much more. I think the difference from back then and now is the expression of violence. There weren't guns readily available that could cause such a vast amount of carnage as there are now.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[WCguru42]

But the puritans lived over a millennium later than the romans. There's a reason that we don't have humans fighting to the death in giant amphitheaters, we've become more civilized. I know this gets into moral relativism but the GP post has some validity in saying that the puritans might have enjoyed violence more so than the romans.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[CannonballHead]

There's a reason that we don't have humans fighting to the death in giant amphitheaters, we've become more civilized.

What's the reason? What is "civilized"?

Considering the fact that some of the most "civilized" people can end up raping and murdering, I fail to see how being civilized has anything to do with it. with regard to the Puritans enjoying violence more so than the Romans, I still find that very dubious, especially if one reads actual Puritan writings.

As to civlization, between 150 and 50 years ago we had things such as eugenics and sterilization, Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Mussolini, the Vietnam guy (can't remember his name), etc. Civilized, you say? IMO, there is no difference as far as humans are concerned between the 1st century AD and now, except that certain societies, because of various influences, have had different - dare I say it - moral standards and influences, while others have not. Rome's influences (moral, religious, philosophical, etc) were different from America's, at least at the beginning.

However, the entertainment venues of a society often portray what the society is "really" like. "Civilized" often means "nicely clothed" and ignores what the society (or person) really is. So the question still remains, do violent video games reflect society, affect society, or some other option?

Re:Video games vs Jack

[fm6]

This proves his whole point! Obviously the Great Conspiracy is secretly programming video game players to kill their nemesis!

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Sj0]

I need to point this out.

Violence is NOT more prevalent than in the past.

Every single year, violent crime decreases. Compared to 15 years ago, violent crime is down 50% in general, and violent crime under 15 is greatly reduced as well.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[aussie_a]

Please be careful when hunting down a Jack Thompson. They're more numerous then you might think and its easy to get the wrong one.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[aussie_a]

Hitler didn't play videogames. You can tell because if he had he wouldn't have had time to write Mein Kampf and become elected as president of Germany.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[SpecBear]

I concede that video games have made certain responses to Jack Thompson's antics come more naturally. Unfortunately, I don't have enough resources to complete the construction of my battlecruiser. Otherwise he'd be in a word of hurt in about five turns.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a dream sorta like that, except replace "people that were poised to kill me" with "hot supermodels". And there were lots of pillows.

So clearly, chess breeds porn as well.

Wait, so you were running away in absolute terror from non-homicidal hot supermodels? Hmmm.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[jythie]

According to the DoJ, youth violence has been steadily dropping. What we are generally running into is more reporting of violence plus older people looking back at a nostalgic view of when they were young and selectively removing the violence that was around.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[jythie]

Another element was that in the past there were people who it was 'ok' to be violent against. You had women, minorities, gays, etc.. so violence was mostly focused on people who society accepted as being targets. Society has lost those marks now though so violence is being heaped on people we pay attention to or, even worse, upper middle class white kids.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Artifakt]

If there's any causal relationship, it could easily be the opposite, that is unrealistic violence in media might cause an increase in real world violence. For example, the 'Marshall Dillon' syndrome, where the heroes of TV shows always just get 'flesh wounds' and make full recoveries by next week's show, might encourage violence where showing more realistic results might deter it.
        One suggestion some psychologists take pretty seriously is sometimes called the Die Hard effect. Media where fate (or God, or some supernatural seeming source), always seems to make the 'bad guys' come to an ending that seems ironically just, usually starting when the 'good guy' uses violence, might make for more real world violence, where ones that show how 'good guys' can lose, innocent bystanders be hit by stray bullets, etc, might deter it.
        If there is something to either of these theories or some relatives of theirs, I, for one, don't see how the society could possibly write laws that could clearly differentiate between 'good' and 'bad' media depictions of violence. That seems to throw regulating games and films for minors back into the hands of their parents or guardians.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[ral8158]

I think you've got your definition a little off; causation is a relationship observed from an experiment, correlation is a relationship observed from a study.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm on your side, but that's just a correlation, it doesn't prove anything.

What it does prove is that people are easily scared by the new though.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you just made me miss Hunter Thompson more. Damned fates. Why take a good Thompson and leave a half witted sissy one, like Jack Thompson?

Re:Video games vs Jack

[dunkelfalke]

Actually, Hitler never was a president of Germany. He came second in the 1932 presidential election, but was appointed as a chancellor about a year later. Even after he seized the control of Germany, he never called himself president. The only president of the Nazi Germany was Karl Dönitz, only for about three weeks, though.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

OK then - has the rise of WoW and the like led to the creation of large communities spontaneously forming to take on the worlds problems, while dealing with the average social problems in a rational and community minded manner?

Or possibly more accurately - did the addition of the drink driving mechanisms in GTAIV (ie the fact its hard as hell to drive ,and you get pulled over immediately) have any impact on likelihood of young people drinking and driving?

Smart money says no - it suggests that even children are able to recognise the parameters that allow them to behave in a violent manner are present when playing computer games, and not when otherwise. With obvious exceptions, which should be treated as exactly that - exceptional cases that are unable to differentiate between different sets of parameters (this is real - gta is not).

Re:Video games vs Jack

[litesgod]

IMO it doesn't have much to do with availability of guns either- my dad talks about how he used to go hunting in the morning, throw his shotgun in the car, and then drive to school. Guns have been readily available for a long time.

The real issue to me seems to be lack of respect for authority, caused by lack of discipline. It used to be that the threat of detention was enough to stop most fist fights from ever happening. Not because detention was particularly effective, but because telling Mom and Dad would lead to more, and more effective, discipline. There used to be an understanding that expected behavior and accepted behavior were two different things. So yes, boys will be boys was expected, but the acceptable behavior was reinforced by authority figures (principals, parents, friends parents, random people on the street who are older than you and saw you do something you shouldn't be doing). Now, accepted behavior is always expected, and any deviation from that must be the fault of some outside influence. Don't try and discipline the child, try and find who/what else to blame. Must be the principal/parent/friends parent/random person on the street who is at fault.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Sique]

It's probably had a hand in teenage obesity.

No, I think rather not, and if yes, it was only indirectly.

At a time when most teenage activities were outside and involved lots of excercise, fat kids stayed rather inside because they were the last ones elected into the ball team.

But with the videogames for the first time fat kids had a chance to be actually good in something teenagers like to engage in. So being a fat kid no longer disqualifies you completely, which leads to some better acceptance.

We have adult obesity since the 70ies as a problem, and now the kids of those obese parents are grown up, and their kids are living in a world where all generations are fat. So I put the problem of obesity a generation earlier.

To think that people are not affected by their environment at all is just as bad as thinking every violent act leads back to a video game.

As far as I know playing a challenging videogame (most of them are violent though) increases your stress level, your aggessivity and your blood adrenaline. The effect is easily measured. So far no problem.

But:
Drinking coffeine does the same. A normal cup of coffee (a normal one, not the super size latte mocha) has the same effect on your blood pressure and adrenaline level as 30 min of a videogame. We can't prove that every violent murderer has excessively played video games during his life. But we can be pretty sure that 99% of them drank coffeine, as coffee or as soda, or were eating it in chocolate bars. So before banning video games to reduce violent crime, maybe we should start with coffeine. Sounds more effective to me.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm on your side, but that's just a correlation, it doesn't prove anything.

Correct, it doesn't prove anything.

What it does prove is that people are easily scared by the new though.

Err. You just said it doesn't prove anything. Didn't you? Yeah, you did.

Anyway. It does however disprove something. Namely that video games increase violence. If it did, there would be more violence than there is. Hence, it doesn't. QED.

Re:Video games vs Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

Jack Thompson should be killed just to shut himself up. He talks about how religious he is but religion is complete bullshit when you take it out of its context. He's one of those annoying bigots you see on the gospel channels preaching his "beliefs" but they're not really beliefs, he's a brain washed ass kissing church fuck. He might as well complain about life, life itself is more gruesome than video games are, he also is going so much against freedom of speech and artistic expression. Games are art. Nuff said. How much you bet he's secretly moving out of state so he can practice law out of florida?

Re:Video games vs Jack

[WCguru42]

IMO it doesn't have much to do with availability of guns either- my dad talks about how he used to go hunting in the morning, throw his shotgun in the car, and then drive to school. Guns have been readily available for a long time.

What I was trying to say (now that I've reread it, quite poorly) was that you can pick up two pistols and have 20+ rounds out in under 10 seconds (even more if you have a more powerful weapon). You couldn't do that back in the day.

Never

[whisper_jeff]

He will never give up. The reason is simple - every time he goes off on one of his insane ramblings, news sites and services cover it and give his voice an audience. Until people stop caring what he has to say, he'll keep saying things. Unfortunately.

Re:Never

[fm6]

I'm less bothered by the publicity this guy gets (let's face it, most "news" is cruft) than the fact that he keeps getting through the Slashdot editors' filters. Lately, they've been showing a depressing fondness for stories whose main interest is to lovers of freak shows.

Re:Never

[eldavojohn]

He will never give up. The reason is simple - every time he goes off on one of his insane ramblings, news sites and services cover it and give his voice an audience. Until people stop caring what he has to say, he'll keep saying things. Unfortunately.

As the submitter of this story, I think it's important we keep pointing out his actions because (1) he has lost (2) although I'm not a lawyer I believe it sets precedence for future cases and (3) even the general public can see through to his attacks on our freedom. I believe there are more lawyers masquerading in our legal system as legit when they're really just Jack Thompsons at heart and I hope the public learns about them by observing the obvious cases of dementia. In my opinion a good example is John Ashcroft.

Sometimes Jack Thompson's arguments are so laughably false that I suspect he was installed by gamers, the entertainment industry and liberties advocates as a physical straw man!

Re:Never

[Eternauta3k]

Good point. Why the hell does slashdot report this?
Right. Traffic.

Re:Never

[Chabo]

Listen, and understand. That Jack Thompson is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Re:Never

[Chabo]

I think it was Tycho from Penny Arcade who said something like this, though I can't find the quote:

"I'm glad we have Jack Thompson as the spokesman for the anti-videogames movement, lest we have someone more competent to take his place."

Re:Never

[poot_rootbeer]

The reason is simple - every time he goes off on one of his insane ramblings, news sites and services cover it and give his voice an audience. Until people stop caring what he has to say, he'll keep saying things. Unfortunately.

And how is that working out for him, so far?

Sure, he's been disbarred, he's trashed his livelihood and his reputation, and he has become the laughingstock of both the legal and entertainment industries -- but since someone is still printing his NAME on a WEB SITE, he must be WINNING!

Re:Never

[DMUTPeregrine]

Thompson played too much starfox.
Never give up! Never surrender!
Do a barrel roll. (Press Z or R twice.)

Re:Never

[Gordonjcp]

Until people stop caring what he has to say, he'll keep saying things. Unfortunately.

"Unfortunately" why? He's quite entertainingly mad. I enjoy hearing what he comes away with.

Re:Never

[LifesABeach]

There's a moral to Jack Thompson going to Utah, "When You're By the Great Salt Lake, Don't Drink the Water." It makes you do weird things.

Re:Never

[__aasqbs9791]

But does it make other, nearly equally insane, people seem more reasonable to the average person (in comparison)? Sometimes where you are negotiating with someone you will want to first present an idea so ridiculous sounding (to people who really understand the problem you are dealing with) that the idea you really want them to agree to sounds reasonable in comparison. This is usually only when you are dealing with someone who doesn't really understand the situation, obviously, like a PHB, but I think most people out there are at about that level when it comes to gaming (though I see that changing as it becomes more and more common).

Re:Never

[Shakrai]

Does that mean we can crush Jack Thompson in a hydraulic press? Please, pretty please?

Re:Never

[BobReturns]

Clearly the terminator movies, as intended by the US army, were designed to condition you towards violent behaviour.

Re:Never

[gnarlyhotep]

And people shouldn't ignore him. The press should publish his rhetoric, and give him the audience he deserves. It's far better to have the voice of the censor lobby to be someone this insane, rather than someone more reasonable sounding, but who has the same views and goals. It allows for that entire side to be marginalize, and thus for acutal progress on reasonable restrictions (if any are appropriate) to take place.

If not for wingnuts like good ol' Jack; Lieberman and Rodham-Clinton may have been successful in creating government censorship of games.

Re:Never

[geekoid]

Everybody has been saying that since he first appeared on the scene.

Is Tycho going to be the Ben Franklin of the internet where everything gets attributed to him?

Re:Never

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps that may be a touch extreme, but I'm sure that many a cry of "you're disbarred, fucker!" was heard on that fateful day.

Re:Never

[KDR_11k]

If not for wingnuts like good ol' Jack; Lieberman and Rodham-Clinton may have been successful in creating government censorship of games.

Doesn't the credit for preventing that go to the First Amendment and the Supreme Court?

Re:Never

[gnarlyhotep]

The Family Entertainment Protection Act died in committee, so I'd say no. As I recall, the SCOTUS judgement in question only gave partial 1st amendment protection.

Re:Never

[XnavxeMiyyep]

You know, I believe it was Ben Franklin who said that in order to be attributed to a quote, you must take claim for it.

Re:Never

[alvinrod]

I think Tycho said something like that once.

Re:Never

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

The supreme court of Florida has already told him to shut the fuck up. I hope they hold him in contempt and throw him in jail. for a long time. With general population nasty people who will make his life hell.

Re:Never

[JohnBailey]

Everybody has been saying that since he first appeared on the scene. Is Tycho going to be the Ben Franklin of the internet where everything gets attributed to him?

Oh.. cool.. That's just what Tycho said?

Re:Never

[Rogerborg]

I agree. We shouldn't read these articles, or respond to them.

OK, everyone ignore what I'm doing, and do what I say... wait for it... NOW.

Thank god he's still around

[Anonymous Coward]

When Jack Thompson is around making all the crazy hubub that he does in the news, noone pays attention to all the things I and project mayhem do (splicing single frames of Goatse into children's films, rick rolling rick astley, etc). Helps me to stay off the radar.

- T. Durden

Re:Thank god he's still around

[mweather]

There's a multi-frame goatse?

Re:Thank god he's still around

[Hatta]

I remember Jack Thompson, but who the hell is Utah Bill?

Re:Thank god he's still around

[Nimey]

Oh yes. Someone had an animated GIF or Flash video with several stills one after another.

Re:Thank god he's still around

[Grimbleton]

There's a whole series, and a few .gifs

Re:Thank god he's still around

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember Jack Thompson, but who the hell is Utah Bill?

Buffalo Bill's lesser known brother.

Re:Thank god he's still around

[Anonymous Coward]

He prosecuted Bill Stickers a few years ago.

Re:Thank god he's still around

[jonaskoelker]

Alabama Man's brother-in-law

Re:Thank god he's still around

[Kingrames]

Utah Bill, a.k.a. Bill Stickers.

http://billstickers.ytmnd.com/

Re:Thank god he's still around

[Anonymous Coward]

Must be the brother of Yosemite Sam...

Re:Thank god he's still around

[meringuoid]

I remember Jack Thompson, but who the hell is Utah Bill?

Not sure - wasn't he a friend of Eskimo Nell?

I can't wait until they finally lock him up

[Weaselmancer]

...and give him this guy as a cellmate.

At least they wouldn't run out of stuff to talk about.

Re:I can't wait until they finally lock him up

[philspear]

Are you kidding? They would break the legal system! You're just trying to set up some sort of DoS attack on district courts, aren't you?

Re:I can't wait until they finally lock him up

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't stop laughing looking over the list of 'people' he sued. Including Plato, Nostradamus, and the Lincoln Memorial.

It's to funny to just make up.

So they'd stop selling stuff in Utah

[Reality Master 201]

I'm sure the very thought must have them terrified, Jack.

To quote W. C. Fields.

[AltGrendel]

Go away kid, you bother me.

But it's UTAH..

[Binkleyz]

Who cares?

No offense to the nice nice people in Utah, but one state law, in a very small (population-wise) state, and will have little or no impact on the VG industry. Even IF this bill passes, there is certain to be an immediate EFF or ACLU lawsuit to overturn it.

Utah is the reddest of the "Red States", and I have to imagine that most good Mormon kids aren't playing GTA4 anyway.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Ifandbut]

I agree with your general statement however, what about us 'foreigners' (aka non-mormons) who are stuck in this state.

I had to move to Utah for a job right out of college. The environment out here is nice so is the scenery, however I often I feel I have nothing in common with anyone in this state because I'm a "far left Obama supporter". You cant believe some of the looks I got after election day. They were all like "how could you vote for him O.O".

To any one considering about moving to Utah and leans to the left: dont. Utah is a great place to visit, but the Democrat ideals are not welcomed here.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not alone, my friend, you're not alone. Together we can sway these republicans.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a conservative from Utah, and we don't care that you voted for Obama. You're just naive, paranoid, and you worry too much about what others think of you. That is why you voted for Obama, to fit in with the Hollywood crowd.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Mercution]

On the contrary... we Mormon kids aren't allows to do anything illegal. So video games are a great outlet.

GTA4 is a great outlet. Except for a crappy story line (in my opinion).

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

why is it that people like you can never accept that someone can have sincere political beliefs that differ from yours?

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

Not everyone in Utah is a mormon, you know.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Kamokazi]

I really don't think that party alliances have much to do with anti-videogame legislation (except maybe some of the more radical propositions in THIS particular piece of legislation). The last time major legislation was being kicked around in the US senate, it was headed by a bi-partisan mix. And one of the longest-time supporters is Joe Leiberman (Play Postal 2, the easy difficulty setting is called 'Leibermode'), and Hilary Clinton actually joined him on a supporting some legislation (not sure if it got to full 'bill' status) shortly after she took office (and it was actually looking like it had a chance, but it got overlooked when 9-11 hit).

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

Most "good Mormon kids" are the same as any other kids these days.

Unless you're talking FLDS kids. Ugh - floral pattern dresses and flannel everywhere.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Binkleyz]

But most ARE.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[dogmatixpsych]

The irony of using the phrase "people like you" in context of your response is pretty funny.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Binkleyz]

True enough, but I'd have to imagine that most things that could be classified as "Culture War Hot Buttons" have their origins in either very "Red" or very "Blue" states (Think Utah or Vermont). My point in the OP was to say that the population of UT is relatively small and not really all that representative of the rest of the nation's politics.

If it wasn't videogames that were "making" kids do bad things (and training them for a future in the Army, as far as JT believes), it would be TV or movies or music or whatever else the people that worry about this sort of thing would blame. "Violent Games" are just the latest (and easiest) scapegoat.

Also, Lieberman is not (in any meaningful way) a Democrat any longer. Bernie Sanders, (the other "Independent") is "Independent" in the sense that he isn't formally a member of the Democratic party.. Joe, OTOH, is more of a Republican every day.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Ifandbut]

This is the one reason I'm glad Hilary is secretary of state, maybe her hands will be too full to worry about video games.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Gizzmonic]

Nerd rage, muthafucka! Don't cross me or I won't help you install Windows XP!

Re:But it's UTAH..

[EventHorizon_pc]

A couple facts (1-3 are from CNN):

1. 34% of Utahns voted for Obama.

2. The district with the least percent voting Obama still had about 1/7th of the vote going for him. (Do you know more than 7 Utahns? odds are at least one of them voted Obama...)

3. Utah has a Democrat for a congressman (Jim Matheson, who won with 63% of the vote).

4. I know of quite a few mormons that voted for Obama, and I (yes, I'm a Utah mormon) did favor him over McCain....(especially early in the election, though I voted McCain because I knew that my vote wouldn't change anything and I didn't want Obama to think he had a mandate)

5. I consider myself conservative...but I find the post below starting with "I'm a conservative from Utah" to be "naive." Good ideas are good ideas. It doesn't matter which side of the aisle they come from. Unfortunately...adding more to the national debt (eg, the current stimulus package) can't be a good thing. Which reminds me of the following (taken from a friends gtalk status):

Politician's Logic: "Something must be done! This is something, therefore it must be done!"

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, he should have voted for a true republican like Ronald Reagan, Fred Thompson, Arnold Shwarznegger, or Clint Eastwood.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[MikeBabcock]

I'm sure more people care about his opinion of the story in GTA4 than care about your opinion on his opinion.

Honestly, you didn't just 'foe' him, or ignore the post, or use mod points, you actually bothered to reply and rant about how much of a pent-up opinionated jerk you are?

PS, ellipses are frequently used in place of commas when pausing for a thought even though commas are a more correct punctuation ... go rant about the difference between colons and semi-colons instead.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[mgabrys_sf]

You're missing the subtext:

1. 34% of Utahns voted for Obama. (nearly 70% voted for McCain)

2. The district with the least percent voting Obama still had about 1/7th of the vote going for him. (Do you know more than 7 Utahns? odds are at least one of them voted Obama...) (1 out of 7 sounds smaller than 70% - which we won't mention again)

3. Utah has a Democrat for a congressman (Jim Matheson, who won with 63% of the vote). (Without knowing the background of the race - was there even a GOP candidate? Did he die during the election? Or is this the lone token democrat? Sounds nice tho. One single Dem. In a sea of religious fanatical GOPers. Marching. In uniforms.)

4. I know of quite a few mormons that voted for Obama, and I (yes, I'm a Utah mormon) did favor him over McCain....(especially early in the election, though I voted McCain because I knew that my vote wouldn't change anything and I didn't want Obama to think he had a mandate) (I know of a few Mormons that voted for Obama = I have many Jewish / Black / Insert-minority-here friends and I'm not racist/like them/condescending )

5. I consider myself conservative...but I find the post below starting with "I'm a conservative from Utah" to be "naive." Good ideas are good ideas. It doesn't matter which side of the aisle they come from. Unfortunately...adding more to the national debt (eg, the current stimulus package) can't be a good thing. Which reminds me of the following (taken from a friends gtalk status):

(re: Good ideas are good ideas. It doesn't matter which side of the aisle they come from: unless it's a vote for a stimulus package that is time-dependent. Then you hope Obama fails and will not let a single vote go across that often spoken about aisle while planning that next post-bailout party in Vegas - Go Wells Fargo - wooooo! Taxes are for the little people!).

Re:But it's UTAH..

[LingNoi]

Don't use ellipsis in place of a comma.

In my book using "---" which is what you do in your comments is no different then "...".

Now you little hypocritical faggot, for the good of slashdot, please log out and not come back.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[EventHorizon_pc]

If I'm missing the subtext, then you're missing the _actual text_.

"however I often I feel I have nothing in common with anyone in this state because I'm a "far left Obama supporter". You cant believe some of the looks I got after election day. They were all like "how could you vote for him O.O"."
--Well, over one third of the people must have also been getting dirty looks... which is something else he has in common with them. I didn't think the actual numbers were important. I just wanted to show that there were plenty of Obama supporters in the state, no matter where in the state you travel (e.g., the 1/7th stat).

"One single Dem. In a sea of religious fanatical GOPers. Marching. In uniforms."
--Yeah, there are some fanatics....just like how there are crazies in any group of people. But to say we're all "fanatical GOPers" is simply not true. As for the "One singe Dem," Jim Matheson has been the congressman in his district for quite a while now. I'm not in his district, but know a little about him. I think he's a good honest politician (almost an oxymoron these days).

"(I know of a few Mormons that voted for Obama = I have many Jewish / Black / Insert-minority-here friends and I'm not racist/like them/condescending )"
--First of all...I said "quite a few" (= a fair number, or between few and many) and not just "few." And that statement had nothing to say about anyone being racist/like anyone else/condescending.
I only meant it as saying that he didn't look very hard for people with similar ideals. Yeah, there are people that cannot get past the issue of abortion, and see all Dems only as "baby killers." But there are just as many people who have given politics thought, weighed issues, and vote the way they do because it is what they believe will help the country as a whole.

"(re: Good ideas are good ideas. It doesn't matter which side of the aisle they come from: unless it's a vote for a stimulus package that is time-dependent. Then you hope Obama fails and will not let a single vote go across that often spoken about aisle while planning that next post-bailout party in Vegas - Go Wells Fargo - wooooo! Taxes are for the little people!)."
--So, you like paying increasingly more tribute (e.g., interest) to China. I hope Obama succeeds, but I hope he does it by using his "scalpel," and not by selling our future to China. As for being time-dependent...do you really believe everything would grind to a halt if we do not pass this "time-dependent" stimulus package? That's how they argued for the first one....and I was against that one too. There are worse things than bankruptcy...which may be a good thing for some companies (the oversight will force them to be more fiscally responsible).

Re:But it's UTAH..

[EventHorizon_pc]

Doh! I responded to flamebait! How embarrassing. I guess I am naive after all...

Well, I suppose I should get back to playing GTA4 like a good mormon boy... ;)

(But honestly, I do own GTA3 and vice city, and think they are good games.)

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you must be new here, as the '--' you're refering to is inserted by slashcode to denote the separation between the comment and the signature. In short: he has no choice. But because you're both trolling it really doesn't make a difference.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI SLC and Salt Lake County voted for Obama (OK, just barely). Park City did as well, but most people there like to pretend they are in Colorado, so that hardly counts. In my neighborhood in SLC I can't go a block without seeing a few Obama signs (yes, even now). That, plus the fact that I also saw a Prius with a McCain sticker makes me feel good about the balance here in the city. The rest of the state is certainly very conservative, and no matter where you live, you still have to deal with quite a few things that can drive a non-Mormon crazy, but there are plenty of people here that share your political views. Of course, they may not live near you!

On the other hand, I'm not going to be surprised by any bizarre legislation that gets passed here - under consideration now is a proposal by some state legislators to replace private club (bar) memberships with a license scanning system that will actually store information in a law enforcement database! Hopefully our fairly reasonable governor will shoot that down fairly quickly.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Anonymous Coward]

lots of game coders living and working here in SLC...

coincidentally I just finished reading through the entire 10+ year archive of Penny Arcade comics yesterday.

I can't help but feel I somehow inadvertently cast a spell of summoning.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[meringuoid]

Utah is the reddest of the "Red States"

So... wouldn't they be in favour of games featuring lots of guns? For hunting delicious animals, home defence, and keeping the King of England out of your face, of course.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[Binkleyz]

Real guns, yes.

Virtual guns, no.

Re:But it's UTAH..

[QuietObserver]

Don't feel too bad. Considering you wrote the post he responded to, you might have felt compelled to respond. At least take comfort in the fact that you did not counter his hostility with anger, but cool facts. (I'm LDS, too, though I have no interest at all in any of the GTA games; I'm primarily a Metroid and Zelda fan).

Re:But it's UTAH..

[EventHorizon_pc]

I don't feel bad. I was actually trying, rather unsuccessfully, to be funny.

Yeah, Metroid and Zelda are good games, though I haven't played the newer ones (Super Metroid and Majora's Mask were the last ones I played/beat).

I'd say my favorite games are RPGs (Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Disgaea, etc). The game I'm working on now is Persona 3:FES. Though occasionally I play a little Unreal Tournament 2004 (Onslaught is great online), UT3 (though my computer doesn't run it all that well...time to build a new one), or GTA3.

The man is pitiful

[MikeRT]

He sacrificed his career over this stupid crusade. Unlike most of us, he can't easily become a professional in his field again.

Re:The man is pitiful

[ArsonSmith]

Yet if he had won, or wins in the future he'll be harrowed a hero who stuck to his principals.

Re:The man is pitiful

[Anonymous Coward]

id like to see him harrowed

Re:The man is pitiful

[JCSoRocks]

Me too! Can we turn that into a flash game? It'll give him something to else to ban.

Re:The man is pitiful

[Anonymous Coward]

If you stick it to your principals, you'll most likely get a suspension.

Slashdot...

[AKAImBatman]

News for nerds, rantings of crazy people?

Jack has no authority anymore. Until such a time as he actually gets some, please ignore him.

Re:Slashdot...

[morgan_greywolf]

News for nerds, rantings of crazy people?

You must be n....awww fuck it.

Re:Slashdot...

[Fujisawa Sensei]

News for nerds, rantings of crazy people?

Jack has no authority anymore. Until such a time as he actually gets some, please ignore him.

What do you mean "anymore"?

I don't believe that he ever actually had any.

Re:Slashdot...

[AKAImBatman]

As a lawyer, he did have a certain measure of professional authority. He was still a crackpot then, but some people listened to him. Having been disbarred, his professional authority is completely gone. Unless he can convince someone else in authority to proxy for him (like this mythical state rep he claims to have in his pocket) no one is going to listen. So neither should we.

The Ann Coulter effect

[philspear]

We are so fortunate to have Jack Thompson. Without his antics, people might start to take the "violence in media = real violence" statement as a logical thought, and may consider censorship.

Continue to fight for the right side (probably unintentionally) Mr. Thompson!

Just as it happens in movies

[Extremus]

Games should be rated like movies are. Then it is up to the parents to take care of what their children watch or play.

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[internerdj]

Well first they are. And at least according to the article he wants both movie and video game to be federally enforced. Which is odd since he previously railed that the ESRB ratings were a joke, but not so odd since it is Jack Thompson. I wouldn't be so sad if there weren't so many comments on the linked news article that essentially say there is a connection between violent media and violent actions. The sad part is he is getting through to some people.

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[Ninnle Linux]

What a brilliant idea. I'm amazed that up until now no one thought up such an idea. Oh wait, you mean someone already did 17 years ago? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESRB

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[rev_sanchez]

The movie rating system is pretty messed up. I prefer the Joe Bob Briggs method of rating movies from when he was on the movie channel. He'd run down the count of kills (with an emphasis on decapitations or anything out of the ordinary) and breasts and other nudity. We could throw in counts of bad language. The rating would be something like:

up to 542 kills/per game - some with chainsaw
8 breasts and 3 asses
"shit" - 12, "piss" - 1, "fuck" - 17, "cunt" - 0, "cocksucker" - 3, "motherfucker" - 6, "tits" - 2

Then a parent can decide if Timmy is ready to saw a zombie in half or if he needs to hold off on being able to hit a button to yell "motherfucker" at a Nazi for another year or so.

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[kannibal_klown]

I think their problem is that games are treated more like movies, and less like cigarettes and alcohol. And to them that seems like a bad thing.

An easy-going cashier might sell a violent game to some 8-year-old without a care in the world. I've seen it happen with films at the theater, rentals at a BlockBuster, and games at a GameStop.

As with most things, video games shouldn't be a federal matter but a family one. Parents need to take an active role in their kids lives and not just hand over wads of cash or buy something because they want it.

• Parents should be vigilant about what they're buying for their kids: a box with dismembered corpses on the cover might require a millisecond of thought when buying for a 5-year-old.
• Parents should keep track of what their kids are doing with their money. Personally when I was a kid I didn't have access to a lot of disposable income
• etc

I've mentioned it in the past, but my favorite anecdote about this whole thing took place while waiting in line at a GameStop. Some mother was asking the cashier if he thinks she should buy DeadRising for her really young kid. He told her about the ratings and described the game, but she STILL didn't want the responsibility of making the decision herself and kept asking for him to make the decision..

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[Extremus]

That remembers me of an episode with my father when a I was 16. I had just finished Carmageddon 2 after two or three months playing it. Then, my father enters my room saying I would not play that game any more :D. The game took two months to be prohibited in my country.

It wasn't his fault, as he used to pay attention to what I was playing. IMO the problem is that some fathers tend to not trust in ratings AND, besides that, they do not understand this video-game thing very well.

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[hidannik]

Zombies don't count as kills, they're already dead.

Hans

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[eam]

I noticed Jackie listed BestBuy as one of the places that sells violent games to kids.

I got a BestBuy gift card for Christmas, so I was there using it up. I got a copy of GTA Vice City (I generally don't indulge in video games - my wife was encouraging me to get something for me instead of the kids). The cashier had to see my license before she could sell me the game. I'm 38 years old. I have enough gray that no sane person would consider me a minor. However, the cash register wouldn't let her run the game through until she slid my license through the card reader!

I don't agree with JT. I'd prefer if everyone just let me decide what my kids are allowed to do. Although that isn't always easy, thinking that the government will do a better job is just insane.

Of course, the government already has a system for taking care of kids whose parents can't be bothered. It's called prison.

Re:Just as it happens in movies

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, so what you're saying is that Zombies are people that died, were buried, and then came back to life (and out of their grave)?

By that logic, wouldn't it be fair to say that Jesus was a zombie? Is Christianity secretly a zombie-worship cult?

Solution looking for a problem

[Rinisari]

Jack Thompson is always coming up with these solutions, but he has yet to prove a problem.

Video games don't kill people..

[phrackwulf]

Jack Thompson makes me kill people. I'm sorry, your honor, but Mr. Thompson knowingly and directly was responsible for that busload of children I strafed. Had I not seen him file numerous illegal and misleading law suits on violent video games, I would not have taken it upon myself to randomly remove other people like him from the gene pool.

Jack Thompson?

[JesseL]

I can't believe he hasn't been found in a cheap motel room; dead from autoerotic asphyxiation, wearing a gimp suit and a dildo in his ass.

Re:Jack Thompson?

[jasontheking]

I can't believe that got marked insightful.

Re:Jack Thompson?

[couchslug]

"I can't believe he hasn't been found in a cheap motel room; dead from autoerotic asphyxiation, wearing a gimp suit and a dildo in his ass."

Bad enough he hates video gaming, but that doesn't mean he should discredit MY other hobbies!

Re:Jack Thompson?

[Kirth Gersen]

JesseL said:

I can't believe he hasn't been found in a cheap motel room; dead from autoerotic asphyxiation, wearing a gimp suit and a dildo in his ass.

One can conclude the Federal Government does not consider Jack Thompson to be an enemy.

Re:Jack Thompson?

[Anonymous Coward]

Aw, now you're just fantasizing...

The dude....

[8127972]

... Really needs to have some hot coffee.

Re:The dude....

[mqduck]

I think you're more right than you realize. This is a guy who desperately needs a reason to live, and fighting video games is all he's got.

in retrospect . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

. . . those massive beta tests of Left 4 Dead in Darfur and Duke Nuke'm 3D in Rwanda may have been a bad idea. That, or people can be real assholes to one another for just about any reason.

one of these days

[circletimessquare]

jack is going to realize his one true calling is internet trolling, and he will have a spectacular future

but right now, he is on a roll with this real life trolling act. in the outrageousness of it all you can almost smell the desperation, the need for a fix: attention, by any means necessary. the mark of a true troll

Sex or Violence? Both!

[coolmoose25]

I find it interesting that the rants here are about not stopping violent video games, while on the Superbowl Ad thread Slashdot users bemoan the fact that ads that are sexually suggestive are censored, while the violent commercials are not. Hunkering down now for the inevitable blowback...

New game idea...

[fahrbot-bot]

...about a guy name, say, Jack Thompson (purely fictional, of course). The goal would be to hunt down this character while he's going around trying to sue people and getting legislation passed. Higher points the sooner the character's dead, points off for each successful suit and/or bill passed.

Proposed game name: Off Jack Off.

Re:New game idea...

[MikeBabcock]

I'm pretty sure the X 'kill bill' game would qualify (included in Linux distros for the last 10+ years). Have the little Jack replacing video games with Barney videos.

'ole?

[mybadluck22]

Good 'ole Jack. ' could be... assh? guacam?

Little known fact, Jack:

[mcgrew]

The word "thompson" in Elbonian means "cough".

Re:Little known fact, Jack:

[Anonymous Coward]

Not even close to funny.

Just stop already.

[The Master Magician]

Can we move to the point where we recognize that this guy is so irrelevant that he doesn't even deserve to have a story greenlit here?

Re:Just stop already.

[Ortega-Starfire]

It isn't a story. It's a point and laugh exhibit.

Deseret News

[Anonymous Coward]

If the Deseret News is the highest profile newspaper that Jack Thompson can get published in these days, then there isn't much to worry about from him.

Sure the guy is a loon...but...

[BlackSabbath]

The guy is obviously "touched" in the head. Being crazy however does not preclude a measure of validity to some of his arguments (and I say this as someone who used to LMAO playing Carmaggedon).

For example, I wonder why the US military is so keen to promulgate their war/combat games. I can't image they got into the video game industry as just another income stream. Surely they must be expecting some sort of return other than a purely financial one? Say increased recruits. If this is so (i.e. the military believes it is so), then it begs further study. Why would people originally less inclined to join the military, be more inclined to do so after exposure to such games? Doesn't this imply a psychological effect?

I'm just saying...there may be a subtle effect going on here against individuals fitting certain profiles...

Re:Sure the guy is a loon...but...

[Anonymous Coward]

The games the military is producing are aimed for tactical decisions and leadership roles.

Of course being able to make tactically sound decisions on the fly is good for the military especially if you can take into account the other people on your side.... of course several CEO's have said the same kind of things about learning from MMO's and FPS games. (Several previous slashdot articles on this.)

Re:Sure the guy is a loon...but...

[Broken scope]

They have games which are free designed to interest recruits.

They have simulators designed for training.

Re:Sure the guy is a loon...but...

[Jedi Alec]

Why would people originally less inclined to join the military, be more inclined to do so after exposure to such games?

Hmm, there's a term for that...what was it again? Oh yeah, Public Relations.

Same reason they're letting Bellisario(JAG, NCIS) muck around on their bases and boats...because it paints a pretty picture of the navy.

Jack who?

[hellfire]

Jack who? Who is this guy? Where did he come from? I have no idea who you are talking about. Seems like a guy who just wants some attention. Doesn't seem like he has anything important to say so I'm not going to click on the link.

Maybe if we just ignore him, he'll go away.

Re:Jack who?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well Sir, you just don't know Jack do you?

Solution....

[crashelite]

if bill passed Video game makers stop selling video games in utah. Jack found dead next day. Angry teens blamed.

The only time video games make me want to kill...

[Low Ranked Craig]

Is when the damn thing resets 90% of the way to the end with no saves. Then I want to kill the developers and/or the hardware manufacturer.

Honestly...

[Psmylie]

Can we try ignoring him and hope he'll go away? He feeds off attention. Let's starve him.

Utah isn't exactly the right place for this

[xenocide2]

You know, the Mormon church sponsors like 30 percent the nation's Scout Troops. Scouting was designed to teach kids the basics of soldier life: camping, navigation, and taking and giving orders. It's not a long stretch of the imagination to say that Utah is fine with teaching young boys how to shoot guns (I know my troop did).

Re:Utah isn't exactly the right place for this

[Broken scope]

There is nothing wrong with teaching kids how to shoot guns.

Re:Utah isn't exactly the right place for this

[EventHorizon_pc]

Yup, nothing wrong with it. I just searched for a link to a funny/relevant interview transcript I saw recently...but it turned out to be a hoax...doh! It's still funny.

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/cosgrove-female-interviewer.shtml

NYCL and Jack Thompson

[Anonymous Coward]

Fight! Fight! Fight!

There is no such thing...

[dazedNconfuzed]

...as bad publicity.

Re:There is no such thing...

[Macthorpe]

Tell that to Hitler.

(Yes, I did just Godwin the whole conversation)

Re:Sex or Violence? Both!

[Shakrai]

I find it interesting that the rants here are about not stopping violent video games, while on the Superbowl Ad thread [slashdot.org] Slashdot users bemoan the fact that ads that are sexually suggestive are censored, while the violent commercials are not

I would posit that the difference between the two is that you have a choice over which video games your kids play. You don't have a choice over which commercials play during the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl is typically regarded as something that the whole family can watch.

Re:it is appropriate use

[Broken scope]

If you have any plans on starting a militia after the apocalypse, can you tell me your ideas for names?

I like to know who to avoid, or shoot on sight.

The larger social problem

[wilder_card]

What this story really illustrates is that we as a society have a bigger problem. Namely, we're letting crazy people run around loose. When will people like Mr. Thompson be confined and medicated for their own good? Is it really that hard to draw the line between dissent and stark raving lunacy?

My comment on desnews that probably wont be posted

[raventh1]

By Jack Hater
Dude Jack, stay the hell out of Utah. I don't want you polluting our pool of already somewhat interesting people. You've already been disbarred, and no one should ever take you seriously. However, most people don't recognize this and they need to know that you're full of shit. Seriously, Stop trying to ruin everything for everyone. It only takes one, and you're approaching infinity of retardation. Please just go live in some communist nation.
Regards,
Jack Hater.

(They probably wont post it because I used the words hell and shit)

jack was a sanctimonious a%%h#@e

[kraksmoka]

he pursued 2 live crew like they were the devil. deserves what he gets

Video game violence and situation comedies...

[tlambert]

Video game violence and situation comedies are obviously ruining this nation.

This is why we have so many random acts of violence and comedy in the streets.

Wait. I guess kids aren't the mindless copy-drones they're made out to be.

Never mind.

-- Terry

Re:Video game violence and situation comedies...

[EastCoastSurfer]

Wait. I guess kids aren't the mindless copy-drones they're made out to be.

No, but to think that people (not just kids) aren't affected by the stuff they experience in their daily environment is just as short-sighted.

Re:Video game violence and situation comedies...

[orclevegam]

No, but to think that people (not just kids) aren't affected by the stuff they experience in their daily environment is just as short-sighted.

People are affected by everything they experience, daily or otherwise, but how that experience affects them is non-obvious and varies massively from person to person. As such, trying to lay the blame for anything at the feet of one particular source (be it music, game, show, movie, book, or person) is to ignore the real problem. People do things for a variety of highly complex reasons, sometimes physical in nature (chemical imbalance), other times psychological (PTS, indoctrination of various kinds, various abuses [somewhat related to PTS], poor reasoning skills). You cannot legislate away crazy, immoral, illegal, or just plain stupid behavior, there will always be those that do bad things, no matter what they are or aren't exposed to, and what is and isn't illegal, to believe otherwise is to believe a fiction, and those that operate in ignorance of reality do so at their own peril.

Re:Video game violence and situation comedies...

[EastCoastSurfer]

I agree with you. The point I was making (perhaps poorly) is that repeated exposure to violence can have an affect not just on kids, but also on adults. It does affect everyone differently. The problem I have is the immediate response is that video game (or any other realistic fake) violence has no has no affect on anyone. In my mind to believe that is just as bad as thinking that games cause all of the violence out there.

Re:Video game violence and situation comedies...

[omglolbah]

The core problem isnt really if the video games "cause" violence or not.

The problem is that it sounds logical and has been repeated so often in media that people seem to think it is "the truth".

And if a "solution" to this percieved problem is legislation we might end up with laws outright banning things that are not serious problems... I sure as hell wouldnt want my favourite FPS banned simply because it lets me blow up people in creative ways.
The "problem" and the "solution" Jack Thomson wants would screw over pretty much every gamer...

You cannot legislate away crazy, immoral, illegal, or just plain stupid behavior, there will always be those that do bad things, no matter what they are or aren't exposed to, and what is and isn't illegal, to believe otherwise is to believe a fiction, and those that operate in ignorance of reality do so at their own peril.

While this makes sense what happens if the normal gamer behavior is made illegal? While the ignorance of Jack Thomson and his fanclub is immense it could seriously impact the sane people if his club gets their way. While he is a nutter, even nutters sometimes manage to get something through the system.. Working against him is important and you cant really ignore him without a certain degree of risk of him getting his way >.

Not JT Again?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, stop giving JT any press at all.

He knows how to google and ANY mention of his name is just encouragement, if we disagree with him we are obviously "part of the problem" and "running scared".

Or to put it in terms this crowd knows,

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Toot Toot! Shrimp Boat!

[Dillenger69]

This guy is as nutty as a squirrel.

Inspect coax for a "Bee-Sting" tap...

[Anonymous Coward]

...actually two taps and a cut would allow the adversion-insertion. Think DPST camel back switch - that explains the MPEG macroblock artifacts at the beginining and end of the hijack.

YMMV

You know, I just had a thought.

[TiggertheMad]

While reading this article (yeah, yeah, I won't do it again), it occurred to me that if Jack Thompson were to be shot into Rod Blagojevich at high velocity, that this would achieve a critical 'ego mass' and cause an massive release of energy that would destroy 2/3 of the solar system.

If only there were a way to harness this power for the good of humanity...

Re:You know, I just had a thought.

[Anonymous Coward]

You could call it the Large Hurbis Collider.

Oblig Portal reference

[Drewmeister]

there seems to be merely a bill enhancing the Truth in Advertising Law

"In accordance with required test protocol, we will stop enhancing the truth in 3, 2, *fzzt*."

Thompson has a point, be he really is a jerk

[mlwmohawk]

New research is showing that behavioral changes in video and on-line games do carry over to the real world. It is not a far jump to assume that violence learned in a video game affects a person's thinking.

Don't mark me as a troll, but he does have a point.

The guy, however, is whacked!! His crusade is insane.

This is a serious subject and requires serious research and serious proof.

If it is a real problem we should find out and not just assume it is or isn't.

Re:Thompson has a point, be he really is a jerk

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a serious subject and requires serious research and serious proof.

No, no it doesn't. It's not a serious subject and it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Games easily and verifiability cause behavioral changes. You get pissed if something goes bad or and happy when something goes right. That's a behavior change. I have the same behavior change from the weather.

But I'm not going to go out and buy a gun and kill all my co-workers because I'm pissed that it's -20F this morning. And I'm not going to go out and buy a gun and kill people because someone camped my body in a FPS game.

Also, the ascertain that people will have negative behavior changes and gain skill from FPS games (as an example) makes no sense. If they're pissed off from playing FPS games, it's probably because they suck. If they suck, they must not have very good skills. If they have shitty skills, they clearly didn't learn how to fire weapons from the video game.

Likewise, if they DID gain skills from video games, they're probably really good and probably are pretty happy when playing games. Making them a much happier person, nes'pas?

Fuck research. Lets have some common sense. Do we have a rash of 5-year-old killers because they played too many "Cops & Robbers" or "Cowboys & Indians" or "Military Men"?

Re:Thompson has a point, be he really is a jerk

[orkysoft]

People used to blame comic books for the moral decay of the youth, now they're glad if they'll even bother to read comics.

Kids play all kinds of violent games, and they (most of them, anyway) know they're not real. Have you ever watched any cartoons? Those are ultra-violent killing instructions! Oh noes!

And of course the pinko liberals forget that before there were comics and rock music, there simply was no violence. At all.

Re:Thompson has a point, be he really is a jerk

[bigbigbison]

Actually, those studies are incredibly flawed. For example the ones by Craig Anderson are concerned with "aggression" and yet never define what they mean by "aggression." In one example Anderson mentions raising your voice. I'm no psychologist but raising your voice doesn't seem like the same thing as killing soemone...

unethical US army targets kids

[Jettra]

There is no question that the US army is now in the business of recruiting young adults into their folds by releasing exciting kill simulation video games to the public.

* in 2002 the US army commissioned and released the video game "America's Army" for public release. They are not in the game market to make money. I suggest that they are attempting to associate the "fun" (kill or be killed) from video games into the concept of military service.

There is no doubt that a large number of underage youths will play these games.

It is a fact that video games all use a known addiction cycle: stimulous, response, reward. That is also implemented in casino slot machines... for obvious reasons.

The question is: is it ethical to allow this message to be sent to our children, who are more likely to be convinced my marketing. and less likely to discern fact from fruit.

I think he is probably right on both count a) and b). But the discussion of such should not be shot down, because it is soo obvious that this is what they are trying to do.

The US military is not in the video game business because they want to turn a profit.

Something that bugs me

[rewt66]

We just had the Super Bowl. People payed 2.4 million dollars to air one 30-second-long commercial.

Were they stupid? Or did they actually know what they were doing? Can they really make a difference in people's behavior in 30 seconds of passive viewing?

My belief is that the advertisers are not stupid - that it actually pays. But if so, arguing that all the sex and violence on TV - or in video games - has no effect, when people are exposed to hours and hours of it, seems rather naive. 30 seconds of a commercial changes people's behavior, but hours and hours of program don't? I'm sceptical...

Look, I'm not supporting Jack Thompson here. As far as I can tell, he's an obsessive jerk who is happy to stretch the truth beyond all recognition to try to advance his crusade. I don't want anything to do with him. And yet, his basic premise - that video games can change people's behavior in negative ways - seems to me to be completely reasonable. More than that, it seems to be supported by the actions of the advertisers, who bet millions of dollars that they can change our behavior via what we watch.

Re:Something that bugs me

[LingNoi]

Advertising has nothing to do with the kind of behavioural change which they talk about from video game violence.

How behaviour change works in advertising is repeatedly exposing you to a brand so when you see it in the store you're more likely to choose it over a different product.

The only correlation you could make between video games is that perhaps if a certain brand in the game was better then the rest in might influence your purchases outside the game.

THE reverse

[Anonymous Coward]

If i get angry and feel violent ill go play a game and htat makes me lose the feeling and emerse myself ion other thoughts

however im not often playing shooter games i play RTS and simulation games and roleplaying games so maybe they should be thinking of what does what. AND when i was hte quake 2 god of heat.net and none on earth could touch me i never felt like hurting anyone after playing so its all complete utter rubbish and meant to control you.

He can't give up

[geekoid]

becasue he has irrationally accepted his ideal. IN order to give up, he has to look and understand facts. Becasue he is emotionally attached to the idea he feels he is saving the world.

No different the religion.

So many targets omitted

[gorbachev]

CIA, FBI, Jeb Bush, Janet Reno, Florida Supreme Court, Florida Bar Association, 2 Live Crew, Ice-T, Take Two Interactive, Rockstar Games, Paul Eibeler, Paula Eibel, tin foil manufacturers, ...

Damn it, I could go on forever.

This must not be a real Jackhole sponsored bill. Too few targets.

Truth in Advertising?

[MoFoQ]

Maybe ol' JT should disclose that he's not a lawyer.
Now that's truth in Advertising.

good work, Jack

[Anonymous Coward]

Sooooo violent video games can't be sold in Utah? Great! That takes out all of...5 people.

And in the true slashdot spirit

[jonaskoelker]

And in the true slashdot spirit, you knew there were women nearby, got nervous and ran away?

You're doing it wrong! ;)

Re:And in the true slashdot spirit

[need4mospd]

Nope, I used my "bishop".

Re:And in the true slashdot spirit

[genner]

Nope, I used my "bishop".

So you came at her from an angle?

Idiots like this are irritating

[bluefoxlucid]

People like Jack Thompson actually seem to draw out violent tendencies in me over the years. I laughed at him and some others like him aiming at different segments of politics years ago. Eventually it became less amusing. Now every time I hear this shit, I want to find him and beat him until he's bleeding and in severe pain. He needs to cease to be in the public eye.

Re:Sex or Violence? Both!

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to the United States of America. Sex is immoral, but gratuitous violence is A-OK.

Re:Sex or Violence? Both!

[eam]

>Super Bowl is typically regarded as something that the whole family can watch.

I initially read that as: "Super Bowl is typically retarded as something that the whole family can watch."

Think of the children

[WCguru42]

I don't get why Jack is so intent on attacking video games for violence. He should be attacking them for the ample chested women in games. I mean, we all know that boobies are far worse for children than violence. It wasn't until Hot Coffee came out that people really got in an uproar about San Andreas.

This law is pointless

[bigbigbison]

The alleged proposed law is about truth in advertising. They say they don't sell to kids. First, such a statement doesn't seem legally binding or even legally defined as "advertising." It is incredibly vague. Were Utah to sue say EA or someone else then EA could claim that in that context they meant "kids" to include anyone under the age of 7 or something.

Secondly, in most cases entertainment companies aren't the people selling the product. EA doesn't sell the games (except perhaps on their website), Gamestop and Wal-Mart do. Therefore they could argue that they are advertising the product but another party is the one selling it.

Finally, I would be surprised if this law even surfaces since 90% of everything Jacko says never happens. I'm still waiting for him to start jackandgoliath.com which he said he was going to start back in February of 2006 http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/203965.html

Re:Sex or Violence? Both!

[fm6]

I don't see any inconsistency. It's a matter of hypocrisy (by moralists who denounce eroticism but have no trouble with what amounts to violence porn) versus bad science (by idiots like Thompson who blame all the violence on violence porn).

I actually dislike watching violence as much as Thompson does. I play FPS games with the gore settings turned down, and "action" movies alternately bore and revolt me. But if other folks get their jollies that way, I don't see the harm. If anything, immersion in fantasy violence probably channels dangerous impulses into safe outlets.

One kind of mass entertainment violence does bother me: that's the "A Team" type fantasy where bullets and explosions are everywhere, but nobody seems to actually get hurt, at least on camera. I don't care for the message that you can act violently without putting anybody at risk.

he does have a point

[Anonymous Coward]

People who get off by killing things (people, animals, or inanimate things that represent the first two), have been desensitized to killing. It may be that this damage has already occurred before exposure to video games (violent graphic cartoons for tots, etc.), but the fact is, if you find it fun to kill, you are a bit damaged of an individual. Also, the military _is_ sponsoring game development, so they, at least, believe that violent video games help to create future killing robots.

Here's Jack Thompson's review of GTA IV....from SA

[VinylRecords]

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/game-reviews/jack-thompson-gta.php?page=1

For those who missed it the first time around, here is Jack Thompson's review of GTAIV, as courtesy of SomethingAwful.

Obviously not the real JT

Employment?

[regular_gonzalez]

So, what exactly does he do for a living now? He must have bills and apparently has enough free time to pursue these inane antics. Where is his income coming from?

Re:Employment?

[bigbigbison]

His money comes from his wife. Apparently she is actually a respected lawyer and a partner in a large law firm.

Re:Employment?

[Killjoy_NL]

From what I gathered a while back, she was quite ill during the case against jack.
I hope she got better.

If anyone ever needs proof that video games don't

[Gandalf_Greyhame]

If anyone ever needs proof that video games don't cause people to become violent and kill people here is the proof: Jack Thompson is still alive.

If video games taught violence, I am sure that one of us would have killed him by now, right?

Dear Jack Thompson...

[Anonymous Coward]

See Figure 1:

http://www.dourish.com/goodies/see-figure-1.html

Thank you.

All work...

[Devir]

...and no play make Jack a dull guy
All work and no play make Jack a dull guy
All work and no play make Jack a dull guy
All work and no play make Jack a dumb twit
All work and no play make Jack a dimwit
All work and no play make Jack a demented monkey
All work and no play make Jack a delusional conspirator

I misread the headline.

[Steauengeglase]

I was hoping that Jack now had a side kick named, Utah Bill. I imagine them wandering the wilds together. Jack, a country lawyer taking down virtual murderers while Bill constantly has problems from his multiple wives.

Of course Utah

[bb84]

Of course he's trying to get this passed in Utah. This is the only state where such things could have a chance--the same state where every bar has to be a "private club" with a cover fee to get in, where they now want to scan drivers licenses at the door of any place serving alcohol and maintain a central database to prove where you were drinking and when. People should be worried. Knowing Utah, this bill could actually make it. Jacky boy has found his new home for all his crazy ideas.