Slashdot Mirror


Flash Mob Steals $9 Million From ATMs

Mike writes "A global flash mob of ATM thieves netted $9 million in fraud against ATMs in 49 cities around the world. The computer system for a company called RBS WorldPay was hacked. One service of the company is the ability for employers to pay employees with the money going directly to a debit card that can be used in any ATM. The hacker was able to infiltrate the supposedly secure system and steal the information necessary to duplicate or clone people's ATM cards. Shortly after midnight Eastern Time on November 8, the FBI believes that dozens of the so-called cashers were used in a coordinated attack on ATMs around the world. Over 130 different ATMs in 49 cities worldwide were accessed in a 30-minute period on November 8. 'We've never seen one this well coordinated,' the FBI said. So far, the FBI has no suspects and has made no arrests (PDF) in this scam."

232 comments

  1. cough by easyTree · · Score: 5, Funny

    in other news a flash mob recovered all the rights that have been stolen from the people by their governments over the last few years

    1. Re:cough by mishehu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Man, if only it were so...

    2. Re:cough by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Wow, that comment was both powerful and funny at the same time.

    3. Re:cough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Obama is in office, you can stop saying things like that. He's going to fix everything, the internet told me so. ;)

    4. Re:cough by jo42 · · Score: 1

      Yes, "Obama-Man Can!".

    5. Re:cough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bartender, I'll have what he's smoking...

  2. Inquiring minds want to know by Faust · · Score: 1

    Did he hack the bank across state lines from his home?

    1. Re:Inquiring minds want to know by daniel_newby · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nah, his brains aren't in his ass.

    2. Re:Inquiring minds want to know by d4nowar · · Score: 0

      Richard Gill will come for his children.

    3. Re:Inquiring minds want to know by Jim+Efaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Did he hack the bank across state lines from his home?

      That's not a requirement for a federal crime in the US; theft from any federally insured bank (which is almost all of them) is a U.S. federal crime, even if the crime occurred in only one state and even if the bank operates under a state charter.

    4. Re:Inquiring minds want to know by DoogZaNator · · Score: 1

      That would be universally stupid man!

  3. And the money went where? by Hieronymus.N · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, were they on the honor system to funnel the cash back to the 'hacker'? Or was this like winning the lottery?

    --
    Would you, could you, in a car? http://v25media.com
    1. Re:And the money went where? by Gorobei · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It was probably structured like a lot of the stolen credit-card number sites: a high-reputation user announces an opportunity, then many other users pay up-front to participate. At the given time, the critical info is released to all, and it's then every man for himself trying to grab as much money as possible.

    2. Re:And the money went where? by Gorobei · · Score: 5, Informative

      I went and RTFA. Given 130+ ATMs in 50 cities, definitely looks like the sell-it model, not a massive criminal organization: very high fan-out (50 cities) and low leaf count (about 3 ATMs per second level node.) That shape is never seen in ongoing organized businesses - they should have a much more uniform hierarchical structure (e.g. 50 cities = 2500 ATMs.)

    3. Re:And the money went where? by beckerist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed. This sounds more like the structure of Al-Qaeda or one of those "buy my book that shows you how to sell your own 'how to sell your own book' book!" than any sort of corporate or open scheme.

    4. Re:And the money went where? by Gorobei · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Two excellent analogies. I've been looking at corporations (in the broad sense) for 30 years, and it took me a long time to realize that you might as well ignore what people say about how they organize, and just look at what the organization actually is. That tells you almost everything you need to know.

    5. Re:And the money went where? by Darth_brooks · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This honestly sounds more like terrorism than anything Bill O'Reilly spouts off about.

      Think of it this way. Say you want to fund the Mumbai attacks ver. 2.0, but are short on cash. This sounds like a great plan straight from the terrorist handbook. All you need is a few willing or even unknowning smurfs and a decent hacker connection. How do you hide the four million dollars you just stole? Have people you don't know steal another five million on top of it. The FBI won't be inundated with false leads to chase, they'll be loaded with dozens of real suspects to chase down.

      The article mentions the cards were cloned then cracked, so a lot of the math can go out the window. I wonder if any of the money was just wire transfered directly to the cards themselves, for later withdrawl or even use a a normal debit card? It doesn't say how much could be taken out at one time, only that there is normally a $500 dollar limit. Though it wouldn't surprise me to hear that the FBI is playing coy with the numbers. They've apparently been sitting on the story for three+ months.

      This money will probably find its way back to the hands of the genuinely bad people of the world.

      --
      There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    6. Re:And the money went where? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure know a lot about it ;P

    7. Re:And the money went where? by Mistlefoot · · Score: 1

      Which article? The December 23rd press release? http://www.rbsworldpay.us/media/news_media25.htm (not clicky on purpose) While I will admit I hadn't heard this news until reading it today, this happened almost 6 weeks ago. Lag?

  4. How's this a flash mob? by Fumus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought flash mobs are groups of people in the same place at the same time. Not all over the world?

    1. Re:How's this a flash mob? by bluesatin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I thought flash mobs are groups of people in the same place at the same time. Not all over the world?

      By the name, I suppose a flash mob suggests a mob of people doing something 'in a flash' (in a short period of time).

      A mob doesn't necessarily have to be in the same spot, at least it doesn't have to be the way I understand it.

      Perhaps in the past a mob would have to be in the same location, but due to the way the world is all interlinked nowadays someone can affect something on the otherside of the world, meaning the world has gotten a lot 'smaller' as such.

    2. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The world is a single place, it just depends what kind of scale you're on.

    3. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Saroset · · Score: 3, Informative
    4. Re:How's this a flash mob? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny

      They were all in the same place at the same time - cyberspace, Nov 8, 05:00 UTC.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    5. Re:How's this a flash mob? by naoursla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're are right. And they make some people nervous. So not TPTB are working to associate flash mobs with crime so they can make them illegal.

    6. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Fumus · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Webster's New Millennium Dictionary of English defines flash mob as "a group of people who organize on the Internet and then quickly assemble in a public place, do something bizarre, and disperse."

      So. Umm... You're just proving my point, eh?

      Or are you saying that ATMs are public places and one person near an ATM is enough to be called a group.

    7. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were all in the same place at the same time - cyberspace, Nov 8, 05:00 UTC.

      I thought they were in front of the ATM's.

      lol, LUE.

    8. Re:How's this a flash mob? by isaac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I believe this is the flash mafia, not a flash mob.

      -Isaac

      --
      I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    9. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pointless pedantry. human civilization is a single instant in time, it just depends on what kind of scale you're on. "Flash mob of homo sapiens gathers together and then disappears."

    10. Re:How's this a flash mob? by beckerist · · Score: 1

      I think the group part applies to the fact a large number of people are doing it. The word "assemble" in this definition implies that yeah, more than one person in one area but given the nature of this attack I still think the definition can be bent a tad to still apply. [/pedantry]

    11. Re:How's this a flash mob? by baKanale · · Score: 1

      While I'm sure flash mobs make somebody in power nervous (though what doesn't, right?), neither TFA nor the video therein mention the words "flash" or "mob". Sounds more like Slashdot sensationalism to me.

    12. Re:How's this a flash mob? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      You could say the same about protestors, and yet their right to assemble is guaranteed by the constituion.

      The right of people to peacefully assemble how they like is a very basic right in a free country.

      But law enforcement should show absolutely no mercy to the participants in a flash mob where the individuals partake in crimes like theft.

      When they finally do catch the people who organized or participated in this, they should all be put away for a very long time.

    13. Re:How's this a flash mob? by naoursla · · Score: 1

      The group of criminals in that article isn't a flash mob. Stop perpetuating the FUD.

    14. Re:How's this a flash mob? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      What FUD?

      Flash mob is simply a descriptive term that explains exactly what has happened.

      In this case it was a mob of people who apparently organized on the internet, converged on ATMs around the world at a specific time, and then quickly dispersed.

      It meets the accepted definition of flash mob exactly. It's not FUD but simple logic and fact.

    15. Re:How's this a flash mob? by timeOday · · Score: 5, Funny

      $9M in 49 cities around the world without a trace, but the joke's on them, because we know it wasn't a real flash mob. And isn't that really what matters?

    16. Re:How's this a flash mob? by FooGoo · · Score: 1

      The mob converged on the ATM network at roughly the same time. The place does not need to be a physical location.

      --
      People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
    17. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Walkingshark · · Score: 1

      A flash mob is a phenomenon where people hear about something happening somewhere in the world (either through the "grapevine" or on the news) and all decide to use teleport booths to go there all at the same time. The mob "flashes' into existence and the people can and do often join in on any chaos, causing simple situations to often escalate into full blown riots in the space of a few minutes. Luckily, police recently figured out that they could redirect the teleportation booths into a riot control center, where all the people trying to enter a given address block of booths would be routed and processed, and charged if they showed any criminal intent.

      And for those of you uncultured slobs who have no idea what I'm talking about, go to Amazon and start buying books by "Larry Niven."

      --
      The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
    18. Re:How's this a flash mob? by omi5cron · · Score: 1

      the long A.R.M. of the law doesn't seem to be able to handle this flash mob!!

    19. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish you could get above +5 for that :)

    20. Re:How's this a flash mob? by naoursla · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is simply organized crime. It in no way fits the definition of a flash mob any more than 5 people showing up to rob a bank is a flash mod.

    21. Re:How's this a flash mob? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I'll agree it's crime, and the action was clearly planned in advance.

      Just because something is organized crime does not mean it's not also a mob.

      You're making a distinction that doesn't really exist; something can be both organized crime and a mob or a 'flash mob'.

      'flash mob' is just a fancy way of saying the mob was organized on the internet in advance, the mob was built from the people who planned it, which differs from an 'ad hoc' or 'traditional' mob that 'organizes' or comes about and its members communicate while they're gathered in meat space, so it neither forms so rapidly nor dissipates so rapidly.

    22. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Joebert · · Score: 1

      I know what a flash mob is, I saw one on that show C.S.I. Miami.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    23. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Vexar · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This is just the bumbling FBI coming up with terminology that doesn't fit so they can demonize Flash Mobs in the future and point back to this incident. Honestly, this "we've never seen this kind of organization before" chatter is just a bureaucrat's way of sounding less like a fool to the management than usual. Earlier assessments that this was "pay to prey" sounds about right. No leads, huh? Sounds like RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland, right?) is completely naive. If they had the right information security at all, they would know enough. Here, I'll help them narrow it down:
      Screen your sys Admins. When you are done with that, check your internal application developers. And, if you find any of that work being done very, very far away from HQ, I'd start with those folks first. Oh, RBS, did you lay anyone off? Why, yes, yes, I think you did!

      There, I just narrowed down your search criteria to under 3000 people. Good luck, and go buy some anti-fraud technology and deploy it wherever card systems are used.

    24. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 1

      They were all in the same place: In RBS WorldPay, stealin' ur fundz.

      --
      Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
    25. Re:How's this a flash mob? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's @208.beats you insensitive clod!

  5. $9 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    $9 Million stolen from a bank? Peanuts compared to the next $900 Billion the banks are stealing back again - a hundred thousand times more.... I can't even get to grips with that scale of money....

    1. Re:$9 Million? by Samschnooks · · Score: 5, Insightful

      $9 Million stolen from a bank? Peanuts compared to the next $900 Billion the banks are stealing back again - a hundred thousand times more.... I can't even get to grips with that scale of money....

      There's a BIG difference. One group was a bunch of unimaginative, unethical, thieving liars and cowards. The other group had the imagination to do something and take advantage of a weak poorly designed system that gets the guys with the badges and guns after you.

      It takes a REAL criminal mind to lobby the regulatory agencies and Congress with dirty money to make your thieving legal. And it's really a piece of work when those lying thieves walk away with tens of millions of dollars in bonuses for cheating.

    2. Re:$9 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is this mod-ed funny? There is nothing funny about the scale or scope of this injustice levied against the American taxpayer.

    3. Re:$9 Million? by bremstrong · · Score: 4, Funny

      Right, $9M is nothing. These guys need to recruit some Chief Ponzi Officers from the Wall St. banks.

    4. Re:$9 Million? by neotritium · · Score: 4, Funny

      There's a BIG difference. One group was a bunch of unimaginative, unethical, thieving liars and cowards. The other group wasn't made up of bank executives.

      ^ Fixed.

    5. Re:$9 Million? by Miseph · · Score: 1

      It's not theft, it's enslavement.

      My parents' generation just enslaved mine to the Chinese for several trillion dollars rather than face the prospect that they might have royally fucked themselves in their attempts to extract money from nothing.

      The only way this kind of financial planning makes any sense is if you plan on being dead before the bills come due.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    6. Re:$9 Million? by symbolic · · Score: 1

      And the $18 BILLION stolen by CEOs of said banks.

    7. Re:$9 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And on top of that, they ask you to pay for them in retirement. Damn parents! ;-)

    8. Re:$9 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo, and it infuriates me no end.

      - "Mommy, daddy, why did you screw our generation so royally? What is it about the term decency that you don't understand?"
      - "Well... it's complicated".

      I've said it before and I'll say it again, the baby boomer generation has firmly established its' legacy as one of the epic disappointments in history. To quote Matt Groening, we always knew you'd fail, we just never thought you'd do it quite so spectacularly.

      "It's complicated". Yeah, isn't it all for you and in our detriment always. Why don't you keep the Oxycontin pedophile's radio ratings high and vote for the caribou barbie as president from your megachurch? And please, spare us yet another rant about how the following generations just "don't get it"? (yawn, bored out of my mind by the trickle of hot air emanating from your mouth)

      "It's complicated". Meanwhile, self-obsessed and self-important baby boomer supreme Dick Cheney, son & husband & father of cocksucking whores, preens and mumbles from his retirement bunker in an undisclosed location, breaching all historical protocol by taking potshots at a new president, defending torture and scaremongering the people once again.

      "It's complicated". It's called narcissism, you mediocre, steaming baby boomer turds, what a mess you've gotten us into. Fuck you and your mothers every time you take a breath.

    9. Re:$9 Million? by Walkingshark · · Score: 1

      My parents' generation just enslaved mine to the Chinese for several trillion dollars rather than face the prospect that they might have royally fucked themselves in their attempts to extract money from nothing.

      You just don't understand zero-point economics! We can extract money from the false vaccum!

      --
      The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
    10. Re:$9 Million? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      And saying as Royal Bank of Scotland has been nationalised after going bust, it is my tax payer pounds that will be paying for this.

  6. Its the NEW STIMULUS PACKAGE!!! by Bob_Who · · Score: 3, Funny

    Gee, I guess we can rule out any foul play from the bankers. We can trust their integrity.

  7. This doesn't sound right by chill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article says over $9,000,000 was stolen using only 100 cards in 49 cities in a 30 minute period. That, boys and girls, is $90,000 per card. The article says the limits on the cards were overridden, using them to make withdrawals in multiple increments of $500 or so. $90,000 / $500 is 180 withdrawals in a 30 minute period, or 6 withdrawals per minute.

    This article doesn't pass the basic sniff test. It reeks of either disinformation or seriously bad math.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:This doesn't sound right by caspper69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The article says over $9,000,000 was stolen using only 100 cards in 49 cities in a 30 minute period. That, boys and girls, is $90,000 per card. The article says the limits on the cards were overridden, using them to make withdrawals in multiple increments of $500 or so. $90,000 / $500 is 180 withdrawals in a 30 minute period, or 6 withdrawals per minute.

      This article doesn't pass the basic sniff test. It reeks of either disinformation or seriously bad math.

      Yes, but it doesn't say how many copies of each card they made.

    2. Re:This doesn't sound right by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe it is like the "street value" quoted in a drug bust, or like an RIAA accounting for music "theft".

      Here we have $9,000,000 listed as the retail value of the loss, the actual paper money they got is nearly worthless, because ATMs only issue "bank notes", nothing more.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    3. Re:This doesn't sound right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let's look at it another way.

      $9MM / ($500 / transaction) / 130 ATMs / 30 min = ~4.6 transactions/ATM/min

      Still seems rather high. I suppose I've never timed it, but it always feels like it takes more than 13 seconds to get my money at an ATM...

    4. Re:This doesn't sound right by iknowcss · · Score: 1

      I've always wondered what the street value of a $100 federal reserve note was ...

      --
      Life is rarely fair. Cherish the moments when there is a right answer.
    5. Re:This doesn't sound right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      About five Euro.

    6. Re:This doesn't sound right by egcagrac0 · · Score: 1

      Depends on which government issued it. For instance, if it's from Zimbabwe, you could wipe with it in the washroom, and nothing of value was lost...

    7. Re:This doesn't sound right by Splab · · Score: 2, Informative

      Depends on the machine I guess, some can be pretty quick, but it still is quite a lot.

      But whats with the $500 marker? Around here max is 9900 DKR = $2000 per transaction. Then we are talking 1 transaction a minute..

    8. Re:This doesn't sound right by EGenius007 · · Score: 1

      Apart from the fact that the currency limit in the US wasn't necessarily $500, it may be greater in foreign currency--say, 500 British pounds or 500 Euro, which would work out to far more than $500.

      And I'm sure they're also counting ATM fees at some atrocious amount. Probably $normal_fee + $overdraft_penalty + $fraud_penalty on every single transaction.

      --
      I know what you did last summer. Just kidding, I don't work at the NSA.
    9. Re:This doesn't sound right by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      That's actually a very interesting point. With fractional reserve lending, the monetary system we currently use, an original $1,000 deposit into a bank balloons into $10,000 of real money. So they theoretically _could_ use the RIAA tactic as a $9M potential is essentially removed with the withdrawal of $900,000.

      Going back to the OP, that would mean 18 withdrawals per card over a 30-minute period, or just under two minutes per transaction. We are now in the domain of the eminently plausible.

    10. Re:This doesn't sound right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the article we learn the following, that "over 130" ATMs were involved and that the limits were raised to several times the previous maximum. The $500 limit posted is the reporter's limit. There is no information what RBS Worldpay's default limit is.

      Hence, just by taking into account that withdrawls as large as $1500 could be done, then the Transacions/ATM/min can be as low as 2.3 transactions/ATM/min or 1.5 transactions/ATM/min. And that sounds entirely plausible

    11. Re:This doesn't sound right by jschen · · Score: 1

      That's $90,000 average per card! How did they find accounts where people are keeping that much cash in an account with a debit/ATM card? Or did the hack go to the extent of even allowing withdrawals once accounts went to zero?

    12. Re:This doesn't sound right by NotmyNick · · Score: 1

      This article doesn't pass the basic sniff test. It reeks of either disinformation or seriously bad math.

      Nah. The FBI just used their standard extrapolation, like they do in drug busts. So $9,000,000 is the STREET VALUE of the money stolen...oh, wait.

      --
      Notmysig
    13. Re:This doesn't sound right by iTowelie · · Score: 4, Funny

      My fastest time is 17 seconds from the time the card goes in until the card comes out. That includes entering my PIN, selecting chequeing/withdrawal, amount of money, dispense money, give me back my card. Not all ATMs will give me that time due to different menus/longer authentication times etc. Don't ask me why I would time something so stupid in my day to day life, but I pride myself at quick withdrawals. Wait a minute...

      iTowelie

    14. Re:This doesn't sound right by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Depends on where you're at. In Europe it's not uncommon to be able to get your cash out in less than 15 seconds. Put your card in, select how much you want, pin and you get it right away. Here in the US for some or another reason it seems like all ATM's still need to dial in on 56k after you typed in your pin. It's also not uncommon to be able to get more than $500/atm. I've been able to get 2000 out of ATM's before.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    15. Re:This doesn't sound right by jandrese · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem impossible if they're at ATMs that ask you "another transaction?" after you finish one, so you don't have to swipe and enter your PIN again. Presumably they're hitting ATMs that are stocked with 100s so it doesn't spend precious minutes counting out 20s. Plus, after you do it a couple of times you'll have the button presses down pretty quick, and it's not like these guys were going to read every screen.

      I only wish the people ahead of me at the ATM were this fast. It always seems like there's the person who has never heard of ATMs or buttons and has to puzzle over every single screen when I'm in a hurry.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    16. Re:This doesn't sound right by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      In Britain the withdrawal limit is generally £250 - £300 per day.

    17. Re:This doesn't sound right by wITTus · · Score: 1

      Don't ask me why I would time something so stupid in my day to day life, but I pride myself at quick withdrawals. Wait a minute...

      Me too. Because I get sick each time I see someone using the device for at least 5 minutes.

    18. Re:This doesn't sound right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Hint* most cases of bank fraud are inside jobs.

      Stop trying to wrap your head around how some "hacker" changed withdrawal limits, stole the account info, and loaded (or found??) accounts with apparently $90K of funds. You're talking about something that's designed to be pretty f'ing hard for even insiders to do generally. Not impossible, but I'll bet there was some inside help here.

    19. Re:This doesn't sound right by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Another facet: How many dollars per ATM is that?

      90k per ATM also seems a bit high. I'd be surprised if the average ATM had anywhere near that much cash in it. Especially ones that would 'not busy enough' that you could spend half an hour doing chain withdrawals without arousing any suspicion.

    20. Re:This doesn't sound right by yakumo.unr · · Score: 1
      Does even the $64285 (roughly) per machine seem plausible? do they really keep anything like that amount in any ATM?

      The article says "Over 130 different ATM machines", so I've pulled that to $9000000/140, they surely would have said 'over 140' if it was any more, hah.

    21. Re:This doesn't sound right by againjj · · Score: 1

      Multiple transactions on one card is faster than multiple transactions on multiple cards (no removing/reinserting the card or retyping the PIN). Also, I imagine that the 30 minute window is something like +/- one standard deviation on the distribution of events, which can make it look more compact than it really was.

  8. Directly to a debit card? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One service of the company is the ability for employers to pay employees with the money going directly to a debit card that can be used in any ATM.

    I've never heard of this... Do they mean the money isn't going into a bank first?

    1. Re:Directly to a debit card? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I'm trying to figure out as well.
      From the RBS Payroll card Fact Sheet (found on here)

      Are payroll cards reloaded with additional cash, or do employees receive new cards each time they are paid?
      Payroll cards are reloadable with funds loaded onto the cards directly by the employer. The cards are not reloadable with cash by the cardholder.

      So to me they sound like a reloadable debit/credit card (like you could give away as a present or something), where only the business can reload it.
      (Maybe a better example, at least if I'm understanding this right, they have those Visa Gift Cards (details) you put money on and give away as a gift. Person with gift card uses it as a credit card until it is out of money. In this case, the person giving them away can add more money after you have the card. So the money is in a bank somewhere, just not directly in an account that the user controls. At least that's how this sounds like to me)

    2. Re:Directly to a debit card? by Ritchie70 · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is a bank of some sort backing the debit card, but it's not necessarily a traditional bank.

      This is very common with large employers of low-income people, because a significant percentage of their employees don't have a proper bank account.

      It's really very similar to the employer opening a checking account for the employee but not providing the ability to write checks or do deposits.

      The employees are issued a card, which they continue to use for the duration of their employment. Every payday, additional funds are available on the card. Sometimes it's strictly an ATM card, but I think it's often a dual-usage card, co-branded Visa or MasterCard and one of the debit networks.

      The advantage to the employer is the same as direct deposit - lower costs of pay distribution.

      The advantage to the employee is they don't typically have any cost to get at their pay. (Contrast this with taking a paper check to a check-cashing store.)

      --
      The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
    3. Re:Directly to a debit card? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      MCI used to give them out as part of the promotions they'd offer their tele-marketers. If you won the competition in your shift you'd get an atm card that could withdraw $100.00, but it would only work for the next 24 hours ( of course this income was taxed as a gift at 40% or so). They used gimmicks like that to lure employees in, not just quoting them the base salary, but the potential to win all of these competitions that would up their pay. Sure you only make $8.00 an hour with only 20 hours a week, but you could make $600 a week on top of that in bonuses.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    4. Re:Directly to a debit card? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I got one so I could make sure my wife had some spare cash around... dropped it after a while though, as they charged 12% of all deposits and 7.5% of all withdrawls - it's about the most expensive way of handling money there is (and that was the cheapest one available).

    5. Re:Directly to a debit card? by eharvill · · Score: 1

      These guys are an example of what you are talking about. https://www.miocard.com/

      --
      At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
    6. Re:Directly to a debit card? by Ritchie70 · · Score: 1

      If it's that expensive the basic concept is the same but it's not really the same thing.

      ADP and Paychex (two of the big payroll processing firms in the US) both have a product like this. The cost to the employer is less than the cost of issuing and delivering a paper paycheck, and there's typically no cost to the employee at all.

      --
      The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
  9. !FLASH MOB... by denzacar · · Score: 0, Redundant

    A flash mob is a large group of people who assemble suddenly in a public place, perform an unusual action for a brief time, then quickly disperse. The organization of flash mobs is generally accepted as being limited to the social media or viral emails, rather than organized by public relations firms or for a stunt. Also flash mobs are not politically or commercially motivated as described by Bill Wasik's in where he said, they serve no purpose.

    NOT "large" group. Probably well under 100 people.

    Here is the amazing part: With these cashers ready to do their dirty work around the world, the hacker somehow had the ability to lift those limits we all have on our ATM cards. For example, I'm only allowed to take out $500 a day, but the cashers were able to cash once, twice, three times over and over again. When it was all over, they only used 100 cards but they ripped off $9 million.

    NOT an unusual action - they took money from an ATM. Not exactly pillow fighting in the middle of the street.

    WAS organized with one specific goal and purpose in mind - getting away with 9 million dollars.

    MOST DEFINITELY commercially motivated.

     

     
    NOT A FLASH MOB! A well organized group of CRI-MI-NAL-S!

    Then again, article WAS linked from myfoxny.com - that famous source of unbiased and non-sensationalistic information.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  10. This looks like a job for... by FFCecil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Obvious Man!

    Since the M in ATM stands for Machine, saying ATM Machine is redundant.

    1. Re:This looks like a job for... by Vertana · · Score: 1

      That's always bothered me too. It's like DNS (depending on usage on this word though).

      --
      "The best way to accelerate a Macintosh is at 9.8m/sec^2" -Marcus Dolengo
    2. Re:This looks like a job for... by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Just don't forget your PIN Number.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    3. Re:This looks like a job for... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever tried NOT being a pedantic fucktard?

    4. Re:This looks like a job for... by evilviper · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Since the M in ATM stands for Machine, saying ATM Machine is redundant.

      The M in ATM also happens to stand for "Mode" and "Management".

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    5. Re:This looks like a job for... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The "M" of ATM only stands for "Machine" when you're talking about "Automated Teller Machines". Saying "ATM machine" isn't redundant, because it clarifies which "ATM" expansion you mean, without you having to say the entire expanded form of the acronym.

    6. Re:This looks like a job for... by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      Then you should say "AT machine".

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    7. Re:This looks like a job for... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      Go ask someone if they've heard of an "AT machine". I bet you'll either get a "no?", or "do you mean an ATM?"

    8. Re:This looks like a job for... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Isn't that some sort of "Advanced Technology" IBM computer from the 1980s?

  11. Holy Bonus Batman! by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's almost as much as John Thain (of Merrill Lynch) thought he should get for securing the bailout funds!

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Holy Bonus Batman! by tres · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is such an insightful comment.

      I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. — Thomas Jefferson

      and I still had mod points just yesterday...

      --
      Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
    2. Re:Holy Bonus Batman! by Vexar · · Score: 1

      Okay, that's world-class funny. I hope everyone remembers this observation. When will we see the end of corporate greed at the top? Ever? Death to this model of corporations, I say. Chief-* has become a term of ignominy.

    3. Re:Holy Bonus Batman! by dabadab · · Score: 1

      Of course, that quote (like much of the Zeitgeist movie (which is just a collection of internet garbage)) is pure fabrication.

      --
      Real life is overrated.
    4. Re:Holy Bonus Batman! by againjj · · Score: 1

      Actual quote:

      And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

      In other words, borrowing money (which is what banks' primary purpose were at the time here) is a Bad Thing. A slightly different spin than in the context you provided it.

      Source: http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Private_Banks_(Quotation)

  12. Not quite... by denzacar · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here is the amazing part: With these cashers ready to do their dirty work around the world, the hacker somehow had the ability to lift those limits we all have on our ATM cards. For example, I'm only allowed to take out $500 a day, but the cashers were able to cash once, twice, three times over and over again. When it was all over, they only used 100 cards but they ripped off $9 million.

    Article DOES NOT say what their per-withdrawal limit was.
    What if DOES SAY is that they were able to withdraw money multiple times, with the daily sum being over $500.

    It also says that the writer of the article has a daily limit of $500 but that is besides the point.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Not quite... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless of what the per-withdrawal limit is, an average of $90K was withdrawn using each card. If the cloned/hacked cards were ones issued as payroll, how did they all end up with that high a balance available to withdraw?

    2. Re:Not quite... by denzacar · · Score: 1

      the hacker somehow had the ability to lift those limits we all have on our ATM cards.

      He hacked the Gibson or something...

       
      But I would be so bold to say that he might have left the same limit on the card.
      Instead, he/she/or it - just changed the codes for banknotes inside the machine. You know.. Like couple of years ago with those Tranaxes...

      So... you just tell the ATM that its 100s are 5s - and then repeatedly ask for 5s.
      $500 limit coughs up $100.000 +/- couple of actual 5s.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  13. How is it a mob at all? by nurb432 · · Score: 1, Informative

    mobâ
    noun, adjective, verb, mobbed, mobâ...bing.
    â"noun
    1. a disorderly or riotous crowd of people.
    2. a crowd bent on or engaged in lawless violence.
    3. any group or collection of persons or things.
    4. the common people; the masses; populace or multitude.
    5. a criminal gang, esp. one involved in drug trafficking, extortion, etc.
    ______

    I don't see a crowd here.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:How is it a mob at all? by bluesatin · · Score: 1

      mobâ
      noun, adjective, verb, mobbed, mobâ...bing.
      â"noun
      1. a disorderly or riotous crowd of people.
      2. a crowd bent on or engaged in lawless violence.
      3. any group or collection of persons or things.
      4. the common people; the masses; populace or multitude.
      5. a criminal gang, esp. one involved in drug trafficking, extortion, etc.
      ______

      I don't see a crowd here.

      Number 3 is probably more applicable in this case, a group of people have been exploiting this security flaw to their advantage.

      And since it seems to be a co-ordinated attack, a group of people seems an applicable word to describe them.

    2. Re:How is it a mob at all? by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      3 and 5 seem to apply.

    3. Re:How is it a mob at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't see a crowd here.

      zoom out.

    4. Re:How is it a mob at all? by eat+here_get+gas · · Score: 0

      mobâ noun, adjective, verb, mobbed, mobâ...bing. â"noun 1. a disorderly or riotous crowd of people. 2. a crowd bent on or engaged in lawless violence. 3. any group or collection of persons or things. 4. the common people; the masses; populace or multitude. 5. a criminal gang, esp. one involved in drug trafficking, extortion, etc.

      ______
      I don't see a crowd here.

      um, see #2?

      --
      the significance of a signature is insignificant
    5. Re:How is it a mob at all? by brusk · · Score: 1

      Booth was a patriot

      Apparently you hold the same low opinion of patriots as I do.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    6. Re:How is it a mob at all? by Al+Al+Cool+J · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but any time people have to consult a dictionary to justify a writer's choice of words, then the writer has failed to do their job. Good writers choose their words very carefully, taking into account what the readers might read into it.

      No matter what the dictionary says, if a significant number of readers believe you have chosen the wrong words to describe something, then you have chosen the wrong words to describe it.

    7. Re:How is it a mob at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well okay, maybe the link is kind of tenuous. You could, if you wanted to, say that it shares aspects of a flash mob, while not fitting squarely under any one definition. Using fuzzy logic, we could say this was 57% of a flash mob. A "Flash lite", if you will.

    8. Re:How is it a mob at all? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Of course the author may have just been making a pun. Clearly an organized crime, so "mob".The thing that makes it news is the timing of a large number of transactions. "flash mob" is a well enough known term, so "pun pun pun" goes off in the authors brain.

      And it just went over slashdot's collective head.

    9. Re:How is it a mob at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it is insightful. When you have a lot of people doing the same thing but can't see it because you're only looking at one person, zooming out allows you to see that these people all doing the same thing at the very same time (within 30 min window) is a mob.

    10. Re:How is it a mob at all? by Pope · · Score: 1

      Pfft. "Flash Mob" has been in use for a couple of years now, you're simply behind the times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob

      If there's a word you don't know, look it up. How else do you learn new things?

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    11. Re:How is it a mob at all? by Al+Al+Cool+J · · Score: 1

      Thank you, but we all know what a flash mob is (except possibly the author of the article). The point is that what happened here was NOT a flash mob, and that calling it a "flash mob", or any kind of mob for that matter, is poor writing and poor communication.

  14. Not stolen, copied! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Argh, use the right word! They copied the data, rather than stole it. Er, oh, money came out of the machine. Well, they still copied something, so I'm not totally wrong.

  15. Need new friends by Narnie · · Score: 3, Funny

    I need more friends willing to say "Here's this ATM card. At midnight tonight, make as many $500 withdrawals as you can in 30 minutes and put them onto this card. You get to keep half of what's on the card."

    Where do you find friends like that?
    /humor

    --
    greed@All_Evils:~#
    1. Re:Need new friends by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      The same friends that get you a 52" plasma TV that "fell off a truck" for $100.00.. he has 20 that fell of that truck.

      If you lived in chicago I'd introduce you to a few if you're worthy.

      P.S. if you talk too much, you dont just lose your card in the club.....

      I hear that in NY there are these kinds of "friends" as well. not that I know any myself. I just heard of them. you know?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Need new friends by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      I would get the truck fixed, but that's just me ;)

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
  16. Movie by Razorm · · Score: 1

    I smell a future movie about this. Like Oceans Eleven with atms.

    1. Re:Movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they could call it "Ocean's Flash Mob". But, it just won't be the same without Bernie Mac. (Funny, I just watched Ocean's Twelve again last night).

    2. Re:Movie by g_t_llama · · Score: 1

      Oceans 130? Could work, but they have about 117 sequels to go before they get to that one.

  17. The beginning of the era by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of true cyber-criminals?

  18. Looking at their photos... by denzacar · · Score: 5, Funny

    They don't look like someone who just won a lottery to me.

    They look more like homeless people.
    Which brings up the question - why aren't there more homeless people robbing banks out there?

    I mean... they are in a clear advantage.
    They are invisible AND they have nothing to lose.
    Worst case scenario - they get sent to a jail. HA!
    3 meals a day, clothing, housing and health-care at the cost of the society.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Looking at their photos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's okay. Many homeless are mentally ill, possibly from the PTSD they got from Vietnam. They got so screwed up in our nation's defense that they couldn't come up with such an elaborate scheme. So we really have nothing to worry about! All is as it should be in America.

    2. Re:Looking at their photos... by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

      Homeless do rob banks. When I was on vacation in Hawaii few years back, I remember reading in local paper that a homeless person robbed a bank (lot of homeless there). Of course they were caught jsut like about everyone else.

    3. Re:Looking at their photos... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Which brings up the question - why aren't there more homeless people robbing banks out there?

      Because robbing banks requires at least a modicum of ability, some organizational skill, and a bit of motivation. If you've got all of the above, you're unlikely to be homeless in the first place.

    4. Re:Looking at their photos... by brusk · · Score: 1

      A getaway car helps too.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    5. Re:Looking at their photos... by jschen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Reminds me of a news story where someone held up a bank for $20, then waited for the police and turned himself in. In court, he asked to be put in prison until the end of the year in order to save money. In the news article I read, the judge said something to the effect of "It's not the best financial planning, but at least there's a plan."

    6. Re:Looking at their photos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Ah, yes, because every homeless person is exactly like one another, and it's all their own fault for being poor and homeless.

      How's the cake?

    7. Re:Looking at their photos... by Guido+von+Guido · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which brings up the question - why aren't there more homeless people robbing banks out there?

      Because robbing banks requires at least a modicum of ability, some organizational skill, and a bit of motivation. If you've got all of the above, you're unlikely to be homeless in the first place.

      Gotta disagree. Homelessness doesn't correlate well with a lack of ability or organizational skill, or even lack of motivation. It does, however, correlate well with heavy addiction and mental illness, both of which make it pretty damn hard to use one's ability or organizational skills.

    8. Re:Looking at their photos... by sortius_nod · · Score: 2, Funny

      And weapons... big fuck off shiny ones...

    9. Re:Looking at their photos... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      3 meals a day, clothing, housing and health-care at the cost of the society.

      You sound like someone who's never spent any time in jail.

      Good for you. Strangely, though, most homeless people don't think of jail as a preferable housing opportunity. That's just one more of the sad Republican fantasies: that jail is such a great place to be. Fortunately for us, many of them have gotten to experience it first hand in the last several years, and with luck, many more will have that opportunity, including the doped-up fatso who coined the term "Club Gitmo".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:Looking at their photos... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Troll

      This comment is a "troll -1" as a house slipper is to a hamburger.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:Looking at their photos... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Of course they were caught jsut like about everyone else.(sic)

      Bank robbery is one of the major crimes with the fewest perpetrators caught. It's a well-kept secret but nowhere near "jsut about every" bankrobber gets caught.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    12. Re:Looking at their photos... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      It does, however, correlate well with heavy addiction and mental illness

      Did it ever occur to you that it's possible that being homeless contributes to one's becoming an addict or mentally ill? Correlation doesn't indicate causation, you know.

      I have met more than one homeless person who was not addicted or mentally ill, but certainly at risk for becoming so as long as they stayed on the street. Funny, I started volunteering at a local shelter, where I raised the money to set up a tiny computer lab (since lots of the resources for the homeless are accessible online) and in the process I learned a lot about homelessness.

      It's surprising how poorly understood the problem is, especially since the Reagan Administration.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    13. Re:Looking at their photos... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of a news story...

      Sounds like a Snopes candidate to me.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Looking at their photos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guns for show; knives for a pro :)

    15. Re:Looking at their photos... by Walkingshark · · Score: 1

      It is hard for homeless people to maintain the basic equipment for bank robbing. Even if they somehow get their hands on a gun, getting ammo can be hard.

      Even more importantly, a vast number of the homeless are suffering from mental illness in moderate to large degrees. Other than people made homeless temporarily by circumstance (forclosure, etc) who are largely only homeless for short (months at a time) periods and never reach a "rob a bank" level of desperation (they have hope that they can get back on their feet), homeless populations are largely made up of people kicked out of mental institutions, stamped 'well', and given a bus ticket and a twenty dollar bill.

      --
      The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
    16. Re:Looking at their photos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When did he imply causation? Looks like you read a personal rant into someone else's statement. Regardless of the ordering, mental illness is going to make it harder to climb out of homelessness.

    17. Re:Looking at their photos... by crossmr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Where I grew up we had a homeless guy who threw a bottle through a window every year on the first snow. The judge put him in jail until the spring.

    18. Re:Looking at their photos... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      Bank robbery is one of the major crimes with the fewest perpetrators caught. It's a well-kept secret but nowhere near "jsut about every" bankrobber gets caught.

      It's also worth noting that bank robbery is also one of the least lucrative cash crimes nowadays. It's not the 19th century, where they keep piles of gold and cash in the safe, Scrooge McDuck style. Banks do everything with imaginary money now. They have maybe $10,000 cash out in the open. I've done locksmith work for supermarkets that have kept more than that stuffed in the front safe with only the day lock holding it shut. I did work for a Nevada Power customer service office in the early 90's that regularly had upwards of $150K in cash and checks (50-50 mix, approximately) on the 1st of the month when people pay their electric bill, all of it in an open vault guarded by one old security guard and two ancient cameras. Why was the vault open? Too inconvenient to lock up every half hour. Company policy required regular deposits out of the cashier drawers into the vault, but said nothing about closing or locking the door in between!

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    19. Re:Looking at their photos... by module0000 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've spent some time in jail and I agree....it's not fun. Definitely not a vacation. Also, when your in "jail", you are scared as shit because you don't know what's going to happen to you. You are still in the process of being arraigned, charged, and sentenced. "Jail" is not like the scenes you see on TV and movies of a bunch of laid back criminals playing cards and swapping cigarettes - it's shitting in a tin can with 20 other drunks and wifebeaters.

      On the other hand, I have a relative in "prison", he's doing 2 years. It doesn't sound horrible. He's made friends, gets to exercise, and has alot of structure(which he needs).

      Not arguing with the poster above, just pointing out that when they say jail is a vacation...maybe they are referring to prison, which isn't nearly as bad as jail. With the exception of things like maximum security, where you are kept in a cage alone for 23 hours a day.

      --
      Trackball users will be first against the wall.
    20. Re:Looking at their photos... by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a well-kept secret but nowhere near "jsut about every" bankrobber gets caught.

      They get caught in Alaska, and I'd imagine in Hawaii too.

    21. Re:Looking at their photos... by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Homeless people are invisible, they could just curl up in a corner outside the bank door and nobody would see them laying there.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    22. Re:Looking at their photos... by Just+because+I'm+an · · Score: 1

      This is the first time I've seen anyone make a distinction between "prison" and "jail". I'm intrigued. Apart from being spelt differently what is the difference between these two?

    23. Re:Looking at their photos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.diffen.com/difference/Jail_vs_Prison

    24. Re:Looking at their photos... by hitchhacker · · Score: 1

      They look more like homeless people. Which brings up the question - why aren't there more homeless people robbing banks out there?

      Hi! You look like you could use some help. Here is my ATM card and my pin number. I'll give you $20 if you go take out $200 because I'm in a hurry filling up my gas tank.

      -metric

    25. Re:Looking at their photos... by dbitter1 · · Score: 1
      --
      For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
    26. Re:Looking at their photos... by Igarden2 · · Score: 1

      "Worst case scenario - they get sent to a jail. HA! 3 meals a day, clothing, housing and health-care at the cost of the society."
      And all the free sex.
      Maybe not the kind YOU want, but ......

      --
      Normally I ascribe all life to intelligent design, but in your case I'll make an exception.
    27. Re:Looking at their photos... by Fluffeh · · Score: 1

      Wow, mod parent up. That's actually quite an interesting quick read!

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    28. Re:Looking at their photos... by lavaface · · Score: 1

      "Jail" is not like the scenes you see on TV and movies of a bunch of laid back criminals playing cards and swapping cigarettes - it's shitting in a tin can with 20 other drunks and wifebeaters.So are you a drunk or a wifebeater? :P

    29. Re:Looking at their photos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A friend was a juror on a Federal (US) court case like this. Elderly man 'robbed' bank, then sat in the lobby awaiting arrest. Sad. True. Effective. ...Lorenzo

    30. Re:Looking at their photos... by DarthVain · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Reminds me of a story a friend told me. Someone I knew from high school was hitchhiking across Canada, again... and in case you are not in the know, that's a long way.

      Anyhow I have been told by those that do this that apparently there are places called "dead zones" that can really suck if you get caught in them. Usually remote rural communities, that if you get dropped off there they are really hard to get out of. Oh and it is also cold up here.

      Anyway my friend, hit one of these dead zones and got stuck. He also had no money. I believe he tried to hit up his parents, but believe they had had a falling out, as they wouldn't wire him any money. Anyway they told him to go to the police and ask to stay the night in jail.

      So he did. The police said no. This isn't a hotel. He then told me that he walked to a pay phone, and called the police saying "I have a brick in my hand and I am about to throw it through a shop window, if you wish to come arrest me I am located at X". He then waited for the police to show up, and they arrested him for a minor misdemeanor and threw him in jail for the night and sent him (with breakfast no less) on his way the next day.

      Anyway I remembered hearing the story after reading the parent post.

    31. Re:Looking at their photos... by ch33zm0ng3r · · Score: 1

      ...well only since that judge ruled that being poor was a mental illness. Seriously, why don't they just go buy more money?

    32. Re:Looking at their photos... by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that... I'm a litterer.

      [Hey, it's not Natalie's Restaurant, but I chuckled.]

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  20. I wonder by hibiki_r · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did they hack the ATM machines after stealing the PIN numbers?

    I have to go work in some CSS style sheets for a web site that links ISBN numbers to UPC codes. I hope they don't make me redundant.

    1. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After skimming through the article: They didn't hack the ATM's. They hacked a bank to (anonymously) issue new valid cards, then withdrew as much cash as possible, and dumped the cards. No need to steel PIN numbers, they got them with there new cards.
      The whole system worked fine, except for the detail that the bank doesn't know who it lent the money to....

    2. Re:I wonder by tool462 · · Score: 1

      I hope they don't make me redundant.

      Hopefully they don't tell you by just removing your NIC card.

    3. Re:I wonder by julesh · · Score: 1

      I have to go work in some CSS style sheets for a web site that links ISBN numbers to UPC codes. I hope they don't make me redundant.

      They won't make you redundant. ISBN-13, that'll make you redundant.

    4. Re:I wonder by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      Did they hack the ATM machines after stealing the PIN numbers?

      I have to go work in some CSS style sheets for a web site that links ISBN numbers to UPC codes. I hope they don't make me redundant.

      I don't see how they could.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  21. ATM Machines? by JerkBoB · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wonder what the PIN Number was that they all used in those ATM Machines. Maybe they used a custom PCB Board to prototype the hack. Then they downloaded the plans onto a CD Disc. I'll bet they literally died after they got away with all the cash.

    Anyways, I could care less.

    --
    A host is a host from coast to coast...
    Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
    1. Re:ATM Machines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder what the PIN Number was that they all used in those ATM Machines. Maybe they used a custom PCB Board to prototype the hack. Then they downloaded the plans onto a CD Disc. I'll bet they literally died after they got away with all the cash.

      Anyways, I could care less.

      Compact Disc Disc?
      Literally died?
      How much do you care, Bob?

    2. Re:ATM Machines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personal Identification Number Number, Automatic Teller Machine Machines, Printed Circuit Board Board, Compact Disc. I think the traditional term is "whoosh!"

    3. Re:ATM Machines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much less could you care?
      personally, I couldn't care less.

        [/pedant]

    4. Re:ATM Machines? by david@ecsd.com · · Score: 1

      Yeah, $9,000,000 is a lot of cash money.

    5. Re:ATM Machines? by shankarunni · · Score: 1

      Anyways, I could care less.

      For the win!

      (excellent post!)

    6. Re:ATM Machines? by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Tell me you also hate the term 'legos' and I'll marry you.

      You are my new hero!

    7. Re:ATM Machines? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      I wonder what the PIN Number was that they all used in those ATM Machines. Maybe they used a custom PCB Board to prototype the hack. Then they downloaded the plans onto a CD Disc. I'll bet they literally died after they got away with all the cash.

      Anyways, I could care less.

      well, a lot of people die literally who survive physically.... ;)

      I preferred hibiki_r's, but I think it was too subtle for more mods :D

    8. Re:ATM Machines? by dbitter1 · · Score: 1, Funny

      That's nothing! You should hear about the time I was trying to get some money out of my IRA account so I could get my compuer needed more RAM memory, a new NIC card, and a new LCD Display. All I had to do was find the UPC code for some DAT tapes I bought because that was my PPP protocol password so I could get on t3h internet. Unfortunately my daughter (she was distracted from getting her SAT test scores) spilled some some lotion with an SPF factor of 50 on the pile of papers where it was, destroying that as well as a VIN number of a car I was going to sell when it shorted out a loose plug in the pile that caught fire (it had live AC current running through it). The smoke smelled so bad it would probably cure the HIV virus or something.

      --
      For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
    9. Re:ATM Machines? by MadHakish · · Score: 1

      I wonder what the PIN Number was that they all used in those ATM Machines. Maybe they used a custom PCB Board to prototype the hack. Then they downloaded the plans onto a CD Disc.

      bravo.

      --
      Wisest is he who knows he does not know.
    10. Re:ATM Machines? by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      Hi, this an awesome post, and I accidentally modded it Overrated instead of Funny, so here I am to tell you that it's funny, which will also remove the mod.

      Two birds, one stone, bitches.

  22. how much would have costed to avoid such hacks.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most ATMs, Point of Sale Devices, Network Printers, Hospital Equipments, etc. are hardened to prevent hacks... when would people learn that same needs to be done to their transaction processing systems. Any system thru which such information flows should be hardened too.

    Why don't companies learn from mistakes of others or do they have to experience it first-hand to justify the cost to fix their systems?

    -Dee

  23. Re:The Wrong Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    woosh... GP was saying the bankers are the idiots

  24. Re:The Wrong Idiots by icebraining · · Score: 1

    They hacked one bank, and probably the bank limits the amount of money it can deliver per day, to prevent "fresh money" shortcomings, I doubt someone could "collapse" the Western banking system like this.

    And yeah, Putin & the Russian government is much better, and not based on capitalism at all :|

  25. Inside job by zymano · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and where are the cameras on these Atm's?

    1. Re:Inside job by mysidia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interesting question.. I would guess the cameras got pictures of them, but they haven't been caught yet. I guess it's possible the participants were far from home, got pretty far within a few days, and didn't look suspicious to any law enforcement.

      It's probable they'll eventually get caught in that case, as facial recognition technology becomes more widespread, they may be identified automatically in 3 or 4 years, when they eventually pass through a public place that's closely monitored

      The world is a big place and it can take a long time to capture someone based on a picture from an ATM camera.

      Or maybe they had scoped out in advance where there were ATMs not very effectively monitored by cameras, and taken measures to prevent a camera from definitively identifying them in any way.

      There are more than a few possibilities of ways information from cameras alone might not be useful.

    2. Re:Inside job by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 1

      Or maybe they just wore a removable ski mask/motorcycle helmet/etc. when standing in front of the ATM camera.

      --

      kurzweil_freak

      5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

      Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

    3. Re:Inside job by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      How much good would a camera do? There's a camera on the ATM that's in the front entrance of the credit union where I do most of my banking. Since that area is open 24 hours a day, I could easily go there wearing a Jimmy Carter mask and make a withdrawal any time after regular business hours. Nobody would notice.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
  26. hello, in this story "flash mob" is not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...because it's all in the same place, it's because it's the mob

  27. RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) by smoker2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    RBS Worldpay is the Royal Bank of Scotlands Worldpay cheapo net transactions processor. The processor is shit (and expensive), and RBS are basically owned by the UK govt. after the bailout.
    So if you use Worldpay on your website, I would get shot of it sharpish. They are the kind of outfit that will have multiple holes in their security. (I used to use their payment processor back in 2002.)

  28. Re:The Wrong Idiots by mysidia · · Score: 1

    Now they have warning. If need be, i'm sure they'll probably put checks in to temporarily shutdown the entire ATM system if they detect something like it again.

  29. FTFA by hobbit · · Score: 1

    These people in the photos are believed to be "cashers," low-level players, in a scheme devised from some mastermind -- a dangerous computer hacker or hacking ring authorities fear could strike again.

    The implication being that they are dangerous in the sense of "do not approach these hackers, they are armed and dangerous". But there was nothing in the article to suggest they meant dangerous in any other sense than being dangerous to the profits of banks.

    --
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
  30. I do by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    any group or collection of persons or things.

    And they are not a group why again? Kind of a coincidence they all decided to do the same thing at the same time, everywhere...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  31. The crime is easy. It's the getaway. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

    That many people coordinating themselves, presumably using the intertubes. . ?

    If even one person was caught on a security camera or ratted out for having $300,000 in cash under the bed. . , or has mental issues and throws a hissy-fit and decides to name names. Well that person could get everybody caught.

    So that means the information security being used by the organizers will have to have been reliable. Lucky for them, they're hackers, so they're pretty smart. Unfortunately for them, they're hackers, which means they think they're pretty smart. Usually such people work from within the protective embrace of anonymity. But once you step out those doors, you're just a conceited geek in a world filled with real people and physical objects and chaotic patterns emerging from the interaction of those people and things.

    My guess is that this adventure was not a product of the same people who bring us Storm Worms and digital age mob crime. Too many countries. This sounds more like the kind of group who cracks games. They'll have awesome systems for moving data around without anybody knowing. Or that's what they'll think anyway. After fifteen years, I'm sure they've built up some hubris. How good are hackers at knowing exactly how much spying has been done with this whole wire-tap thing and similar?

    I wonder if they were conned into doing this by some kind of spook agency. It would certainly make wire-tapping look good and the kind of people who argue against it look bad. Who knows?

    The real tragedy is that by the time they all get rounded up, the currency they stole won't be worth enough to pay for their one phone call. sigh.

    -FL

  32. And his sidekick. . . by tuna_wasabi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Redundant Boy!

    Also, since the N in PIN stands for Number, saying PIN number is redundant. TFA didn't make this mistake, but since they go together so often I though I'd point it out for completeness.

    One time I heard a friend say "I want to get some cash out of the ATM Machine, but I can't remember my PIN Number."

    He's dead now.

    1. Re:And his sidekick. . . by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should go to England where they call them Cashpoint machines, or Scotland, where they call them Cashline machines.

    2. Re:And his sidekick. . . by shadwstalkr · · Score: 1

      One time I heard a friend say "I want to get some cash out of the ATM Machine, but I can't remember my PIN Number."

      He's dead now.

      A good friend would have just loaned him some money to pay the ransom.

    3. Re:And his sidekick. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With pedantry like that, I wonder when you find time to read TFA article.

    4. Re:And his sidekick. . . by CharlieMurphy · · Score: 1

      ATM is a rather nasty porn term, so maybe its best to put machine after it to avoid confusion

  33. 130 ATMs? by loshwomp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hang on a second: That works out to over $69000 per ATM. Do they really have that much cash loaded in each one? I'd be surprised if that's true.

    1. Re:130 ATMs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAIK UK ATM's have about £250,000 in the big ones in branches. This is one reason banks want to reduce the number of them or charge for them. They lose a wodge of interest on the cash sitting in the machines.

    2. Re:130 ATMs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, $70000 in 30 minutes.

      That's 2 $20 bills per second.

    3. Re:130 ATMs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They usually hold a LOT more than that.

      Depending on whether it is a store or bank located machine, busy machines in popular, less risky locations in the UK can hold up to £500,000 on busy nights, i.e. New Years Eve.

    4. Re:130 ATMs? by swillden · · Score: 2, Informative

      AFAIK UK ATM's have about £250,000 in the big ones in branches. This is one reason banks want to reduce the number of them or charge for them. They lose a wodge of interest on the cash sitting in the machines.

      No need to lose money on it. I built a cash-tracking system years ago for a big grocery store chain. Across a thousand large grocery stores there is tens of millions of dollars sitting in safes and cash drawers. The main reasons for the tracking system were to reduce shrinkage and to enable just-in-time inventory management (large stores, especially those that cash checks, treat cash as an orderable inventory item). Even without those issues, however, the chain figured they'd more than pay for the cost of the system by "investing" all that cash.

      The way the scheme worked was that the inventory system provided accountants in the home office with a near real-time report on the quantity of cash in the stores. They then used those reports to prove to an investment bank that they had $XX million in liquid assets on hand. The bank loaned them money at a low interest rate (since the loan was guaranteed by on-hand liquid assets), which they invested.

      I find it hard to believe that *banks* can't manage to do something similar. They know exactly how much money is in each of those ATMs.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  34. Funniest ATM theft I've heard of by cdn-programmer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The funniest ATM theft I've heard of took place in Saskatchewan, Canada. This took place on a long weekend in a sleepy little rural town.

    4:00 AM sees our thieves breaking into the local gravel contractor. After breaking through the gate they steal a gravel truck and an oxy-acetelene torch. Next stop is the post treating plant about 1/2 mile (1 km) down the highway. They steal a loader. This is what is used to load poles and posts onto semi-trailors.

    By now its about 4:15 or so. Did they make noise? Well - a diesel truck and 350 HP diesel loader will make some noise I suppose. It woke some of the locals up.

    Around the corner from the bank about one (1) block away is the local police station which is manned 24x7. The police are at their desks thinking the gravel contractor must be getting an early start this morning.

    So the thieves drive the loader over to the bank. The reach in through the roof totally demolishing the building and grab the ATM which is firmly bolted to the concrete floor and footings. Seems the concrete wasn't much of a match for the 350 HP loader because the ATM was cleanly plucked through the gapping hole and dropped into the back of the dump truck.

    By now the cops were heading for their cars thinking there must have been a big accident on Main Street.

    Our thieves meanwhile shut off the loader and hopped into the dump truck and took off.

    A few miles south of town they stopped at an abandoned farm yard and took their time with the oxy-acetelene torch and chopped the ATM apart.

    Having done this they took the money and casually left the scene of the crime. So far no one has been caught! So far apparently these thieves are keeping their mouths closed. Apparently there are no leads.

    The best part of this story is the locals still laugh about their bank robbery! When you live in a sleepy Saskatchewan rural town then once in a while a little excitement spices up an otherwise dreary life.

    1. Re:Funniest ATM theft I've heard of by davidphogan74 · · Score: 1

      Apparently this happens a bit up there, eh?

    2. Re:Funniest ATM theft I've heard of by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      This would have made a funny Corner Gas episode IMHO.

    3. Re:Funniest ATM theft I've heard of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Father told me that the easiest entry is usually from above.
      Sit on a roof at night and observe how few people (none) notice you.

  35. TFA has got it all wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, no, no TFA has got it all wrong. These people were law abiding taxpayers getting their bailout money back from wealthy bankers. Hey guys, next time I want in on it!

  36. Repeated serious security failings at RBS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the 3rd such serious compromise of customer security at RBS Worldpay and raises grave concerns about the company culture and ability of management to fix this problem.

    $9m will be only the start, Id imagine that after losing so many customers details to criminals, this figure will pale into insignificance next to the total cost of falsified loan applications and other activity that is certain to follow.

    I really feel sorry for their customers, but then again, this is now a clear pattern of failure at RBS.

    AG

  37. Camera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And non of the ATMs had built-in camera ?

  38. How about... Hacking the ATM from the ATM? by denzacar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    May I be so bold to suggest that there was no actual "hacking" taking place at all?
    By "hacking" I mean the stuff that movies and TV tells us that hacking looks like.
    A bespectacled nerd in his teens or early twenties, furiously typing something at his green and black screen filled with lines upon lines of scrolling text, uttering "Come on... come on..." until he suddenly "hacks the Gibson" and a welcome screen appears, upon which he jumps up yelling "YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!".

     

    TFA tells us the following:

    Here is the amazing part: With these cashers ready to do their dirty work around the world, the hacker somehow had the ability to lift those limits we all have on our ATM cards. For example, I'm only allowed to take out $500 a day, but the cashers were able to cash once, twice, three times over and over again. When it was all over, they only used 100 cards but they ripped off $9 million.

    - known limit - $500
    - 100 ATMcards used
    - $9 million gone

    That comes out to about 90k per card, right?

     
    Does anyone remember that little issue with Tranax ATMs from couple of years ago?
    It smells to me that something similar happened here. Someone leaving the ADMIN pass at 55555555 or 12345678.
    There was probably no need for hacking cards - they probably left the same limit.
    Instead, he/she/or it - just changed the codes for banknotes inside the machine.

    So... you just tell the ATM that its 100s are 5s - and then repeatedly ask for 5s.
    $500 limit coughs up ~$100.000 +/- couple of earlier withdrawals that already left the machine a few 100s short.

    In other words - about $90.000 per card.

     

     
    The beauty of it?

    Those suspects in the photos may be regular Joes and Janes who came later, found the machine giving 100s for 5s - and got caught on camera.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:How about... Hacking the ATM from the ATM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No lie, about 6 months ago I used an ATM in a stationary / Lottery store in Manhattan.
      I withdrew $100 and instead of 5 20's, 5 100's came out. I left and never looked back.

    2. Re:How about... Hacking the ATM from the ATM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once worked for a security company that restocked and provided FLM for ATM machines in the USA. I've never seen a machine that stocked 100 dollar bills.

      But, if there are such machines in areas outside of my service area, it would be easy to accomplish, even remotely. When we load a machine, we enter the "counts". I.e.: tray 5 has 2000 units, and each unit is a $20 bill. Tray 4 has 2000 units, and each unit is a $10 bill.

      Those values can be changed remotely on most ATM's also, but not all.

    3. Re:How about... Hacking the ATM from the ATM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was not the hack. The hack was via the debit cards used in a payroll system. The hackers were able to exploit a system within RBS World Pay that does payroll direct deposit to debit cards. They raised the withdrawal limit in the system itself. These hundred cards had a shit-ton of money slammed into them. With the withdrawal limit removed, it is simply a matter of hitting as many ATMs in a day and taking a thousand or so at a time.

    4. Re:How about... Hacking the ATM from the ATM? by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      This was detailed on The Real Hustle.

    5. Re:How about... Hacking the ATM from the ATM? by benedictaddis · · Score: 1

      So... you just tell the ATM that its 100s are 5s - and then repeatedly ask for 5s. $500 limit coughs up ~$100.000...

      In other words - about $90.000 per card.

      No.

      $100 = 20 x $5.

      $100,000 = $500 x 200.

      You (and the article's author) have invented a bunch of technical detail that wasn't necessary here.

      What could have happened is that each 'cashier' had a clone of each of the ~100 cards, and the attacks were co-ordinated close enough in time that the local limit monitoring was not updated quickly enough to reflect the other withdrawals.

      $9million divided by (~100 cards x ~130 locations) = $692 average withdrawal. This is consistent with some countries having a daily withdrawal limit of $500, others up to $1000.

      The only compromised system here appears to be the Worldpay one, so this hypothesis is much more credible than the attacker(s) being able to lift the withdrawal limit across multiple bank systems in multiple countries.

      Benedict.

    6. Re:How about... Hacking the ATM from the ATM? by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Well... I didn't pay attention to math there... Silly of me. :P

      But as you yourself said it - it could have been $1000.

      What could have happened is that each 'cashier' had a clone of each of the ~100 cards, and the attacks were co-ordinated close enough in time that the local limit monitoring was not updated quickly enough to reflect the other withdrawals.

      Have you tried coordinating 3+ people to do something simultaneously?
      Disregarding possible quirks in the plan, such as the ATM already being in use during that time window (waiting for the window to open would be out of the question due to increased chances of being spotted) - it would be nearly impossible to time 130 people to do the withdrawals in SECONDS it would take the system to report them.
      And it is seconds - otherwise people could exploit that to have their cake and eat it to all the time.
      Pay for something over the internet AND withdraw the money at the same time and run.

      The only compromised system here appears to be the Worldpay one, so this hypothesis is much more credible than the attacker(s) being able to lift the withdrawal limit across multiple bank systems in multiple countries.

      I didn't say that anyone lifted the withdrawal limit - I said that they might have exploited a preexisting security flaw to replace the lowest banknote with the highest.

      Which would run much smoother than using 100 cards at 130 locations at the same time.
      That is the SAME 100 cards at 130 DIFFERENT locations at the SAME time.
      To do that in 30 minutes it took them they would have to be inserting the cards, typing in PINs, typing in money amounts, getting the money, ejecting the cards - in 18 seconds or less.
      In perfect coordination with those other 130 "cashiers".

      Just imagine them dancing if they could have pulled that off.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  39. I'm not affected by this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not affected by this - I'm unemployed!

    Oh, wait...

  40. The crime might not be theft ... by Cassini2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Anyone hoping to pocket a percentage of $9,000,000 by giving a bunch of passwords to a bunch of people you don't know, and then assuming you won't get grassed out to the cops is likely making a major mistake.

    If the criminal is smart, a better strategy might be to "give" the information away to the right group of people. This might give someone a smug sense of "revenge" against a former employer. Someone could short the stock in the stock market, or the theft could cover up some insider funny business. The initial criminal act may be different than what it appears.

    Alternatively, the actual "inside" mastermind may actually be a victim too. Maybe someone conned an insider for information, or access to a laptop, and just sold the information. Maybe someone got hold of the backup tapes. This might actually a fairly low-value theft for the original criminal.

  41. Lying liars by faronem · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've never used RBS Worldpay, but was notified several weeks ago that my financial records for the past 20 years, as well as SSN, were compromised.

    What's incredibly distressing is that RBS Worldpay (part of Citizens Financial Group) shares data with other affiliates. I just have a basic checking account in one of their banks, that's it--no credit cards, no gift cards, no payroll cards.

    However, they didn't go public with the news or notify any customers until the day before Xmas eve in December 2008: http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/12-23-2008/0004946566&EDATE=

    Even more distressing was that when I called them during the first week of January to get information on why my data was exposed even though I don't use RBS Worldpay services, I was told it was just them being careful and 20-30 cards were the sum total of illicitly accessed information to date--clearly a lie.

    And it gets even worse--the compromise was identified and recognized by them in June/July 2008!

    In other words, they didn't give a shit about exposing their customer data until they lost some large money.

  42. not who i would expect... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the video from fox shows images and video of the "cashers"...not the profile of who I would think would be behind something like this.

    It looked to be mostly 30-ish, mixed male/female, and black.

    In a worldwide scheme like this one, especially with this "dangerous computer hacker" involved, I would have expected to see more teens or organized crime/gangs as the peons.

    I'm interested to see what this comes up with in the end as far as distribution methods and planning technique. Oh, and $69k per ATM is impressive.....also waiting to hear how the dumbass that decided to put an over-ride code into the ATM software is prosecuted.

    "hey guys, we really should have an override on that time limit thing in case we want to withdraw $2,000 per minute...ya know?"

  43. Simple solution by Mac_8100_g3 · · Score: 0

    Computer Crime = Capital Offense. No appeals. Death by public execution. Seeing their friends swinging from a gallows sure would go a long way in making this cr@p less attractive. This is nothing short of computer based terrorism. Treat it as such and find these f@ckers.

    --
    My peace of mind does not depend on /. karma
  44. Bias in the Line up? by Naznarreb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm concerned about the pictures that myfoxny.com obtained. Of the 8 individual people shown in the 12 photos (a few people appear twice) 6 are very clearly black or minority. 130 ATMs robbed in 50 cities, you only get security photos of 8 people and nearly all of them are minority? I don't think so.

    1. Re:Bias in the Line up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It could be that the low-level perpetrators were overwhelmingly "black or minority." Racism exists, but maybe myfoxny.com isn't the racist party here.

    2. Re:Bias in the Line up? by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      So what? The Mafia is largely Italian, but that doesn't mean that most Italians are in the mob. It's quite possible that this group of criminals self-selected based in part upon race as well.

    3. Re:Bias in the Line up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not bias by Fox News. The "cashers" got into this (recruited, bought into the scheme, etc.) from a single source or type of source, maybe a gang, drug dealer, etc. So yeah, it's a who-you-know type thing, and in New York if the, say, gang or drug dealer was black then no surprise that the cashers are as well. I'm guessing black gangs don't offer money-making opportunities to whites, unless they're some kind of equal opportunity type of gang.

  45. Please arrest me.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I have lived where people have not much to lose. One day our neighbor took it upon himself to
    protect his property from a fighting couple that hung around with a 45 caliber handgun. Of course
    someone noticed that a man was firing a shiny handgun down the street in the middle of the afternoon
    and the police came around shortly thereafter. when our neighbor calmed down (unfortunately he came over
    to our house), he walked out with his hands up and gun in his belt.

    When we visited him in jail, his attitude was nonchalant, he was taking a short break from
    all of the usual crackheads in his life to a tightly controlled atmosphere he felt comfortable in.
    He had OG status and nobody fucked with him.

    The judge agreed with his right to defend his property, just not the way in which it
    was conducted (cowboy style). He came put six months later completely unphased.
    I am not saying I agree, I am just saying never assume...

  46. Wait... by russotto · · Score: 1

    I think I see a problem here

    1) Gather ATM card information and duplicate cards
    2) Pass them out to confederates (cashers)
    3) Cashers withdraw money
    4) ????
    5) Profit.

    Or, in other words, why wouldn't the cashers just take the money and run, leaving the mastermind with nothing? Unless of course the mastermind was one (or more) of the cashers, and used the rest of the people to camouflage his own involvement.

    1. Re:Wait... by Spatial · · Score: 1

      Maybe they just like to sit around and laugh maniacally. I know I do!

    2. Re:Wait... by grumling · · Score: 1

      The "mastermind" sells the cards to the "soldiers" with explicit instructions on when to use them. Given the large amounts taken, the mastermind might have been able to charge several thousand dollars each.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  47. its 10 hour period according to FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no its 10 hour period according to FBI

  48. Taking advantage of RBS WorldPay Internal Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After acquiring RBS Worldpay (then Lynk Systems or RBS Lynk) Citizens Financial group eventually installed their own CEO. That CEO brought in his cronies, including a CIO.

    At an all-hands off-site meeting the new CEO & CIO essentially stated the entire IT staff sucks. To solve that problem the CIO announces they are moving from MS platforms to Java & Oracle.

    A few months later the CIO leaves RBS. The Oracle transition was less than half-done.

    Everyone else with half-a-clue left within two months after the Dale Carnegie meeting. At that time the most senior DBA had worked for RBS for less than two months.

    The fraud prevention module was written by a project manager in the much the same manner that referees play sports.

    The main application to manage customer data is written in VB6, mostly by people from the British Virgin Islands . . . in much the same manner that residents of another former British colony write code.

    So you are left with a staff of disgruntled under-performers administrating an IT system that takes so much time & effort just to keep running that no one gives the first thought to security.

    About one year later a large group of people, headed up by a 'hacker' walks off with large amounts of cash . . . .

    To where? The British Virgin Islands are known for their discrete offshore banking . . .

  49. Mod up, this is dead on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Excellent post, yes hackers and "flash mobs" are being given a bad name (it's not even a flash mob) and duh, this is more likely an inside job and there's plenty of disgruntled out there with all the layoffs.

  50. Whose money? by vic-traill · · Score: 1

    I broke down and read TFA, and I still don't understand whose money has been stolen. The payroll cards are presumably issued off an employer account, so that employees can hit an ATM and snag their pay (as I'm interpreting the idea of a payroll card). So why is there $90,000 sitting in a payroll account just waiting for the card to take it all? I would expect that the payroll card I get would be limited to the amount of money I've earned this pay period ... ??

    Even if you remove the daily transaction limit (as the article says occurred) there still has to be enough money in the account to which the card is attached.

    I'm guessing I don't understand what a payroll card is, or am just too dumb to be a criminal in this day and age.

    --
    [17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings