World of Goo Ported To Linux

christian.einfeldt writes "Lovers of both games and Free Open Source Software will be pleased to see that the popular indie puzzle game World of Goo has been released for Linux. It was designed by a small team of two ex-Electronic Arts developers, Kyle Gabler and Ron Carmel, who used their entire combined savings of $10,000.00 USD to create the gooey game aimed at guiding goo balls to salvation. The developers built their gooey world with open-source technologies such as Simple DirectMedia Layer, Open Dynamics Engine for physics simulation, and TinyXML for configuration and animation files. Subversion and Mantis Bug Tracker were used for work coordination. Blogger Ken Starks points out that the release of this popular game for Linux could be a big step toward ending the chicken-and-egg problem of a dearth of good games that run natively under Linux."

Comments

Lovers of FOSS

[Anonymous Coward]

realize that this game isn't free or open source. It is fun, though.

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[ndogg]

Yup.

Games, however, aren't exactly essential qualities of an OS or even to life.

They're more like artwork, and I am quite willing to pay for good art.

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[X0563511]

They're more like artwork, and I am quite willing to pay for good art.

Amen to that!

This is the first time I've thought of that view... and thanks to you it sticks.

This is how games should be viewed - as art - not as product. Major publishers, take notice (pretty pretty please)

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[binford2k]

the thinking is that the tools to get work done should be freely available to all,

Because things like hammers and screwdrivers and all that are free.

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[zooblethorpe]

the thinking is that the tools to get work done should be freely available to all,

Because things like hammers and screwdrivers and all that are free.

No, but there the cost you're paying is the cost of producing the physical good -- you're not paying extra for the IP of a hammer or a screwdriver. And since there is no cost of producing the physical good with software (since there really isn't a physical good, unless it's burned to disc or something), all you're paying for is the IP.

How much of a price to put on that IP is the question. Making analogies to hammers and screwdrivers goes off on the wrong tangent. :)

Cheers,

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[TrancePhreak]

No, he's right. You don't just pay for the hammer's cost of creation, you pay for it's advertising, it's R&D costs, etc. It's exactly like software. There's far more to the cost of software than just the disc it is distributed on.

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[KDR_11k]

Art is a product, just a certain kind of it.

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[meist3r]

Games, however, aren't exactly essential qualities of an OS or even to life.

I'd doubt that. If you could equally enjoy games on Macs and Linux systems the Windows market share would be much smaller. How many people did switch to Vista merely because the need DX10 and future compatibility? How many people don't even consider a Linux alternative because they know they're shackled to Windows for gaming anyway. I agree that large parts of the OS market aren't bound to the gaming capabilities but the number of gamers that is bound to Windows by their hobby is considerably relevant.

If people could do all their stuff on Linux distros (which I believe most of them could) at some would not have to own Windows just to play games. I suspect many have illegal Windows copies anyway or maintain those on a dualboot system just to get their games while Linux is the primary system.

They're more like artwork, and I am quite willing to pay for good art.

I agree with that statement to some extent but while I would gladly pay for good art I feel a strong discentive in the fact that I have to add a branded locked down room to my house only to enjoy my artwork, simply because they make the frames so they won't stick to any other wall.

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[binford2k]

No. I'm not making analogies at all. I was replying to the AC who made the foolish comment that all tools should be free. Hammers and screwdrivers are tools. No analogy.

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[zooblethorpe]

Apologies then, binford2k -- I had read the AC's comment as talking about software tools, and more specifically about OSS. In that context, I interpreted your hammer and screwdriver comment as somehow equating software tools with meatspace tools. Upon clarification, I agree with your point here that not all tools should perforce be free simply because they're tools.

Cheers,

Re:Lovers of FOSS

[msobkow]

What an annoyingly addictive demo! I might actually have to buy a copy... :)

Did they actually use all $10K?

[fortunato]

I'm curious what they spent the $10K on. That seems too small for living expenses (unless perhaps you are single and living on ramen noodles), and it seems too much if they used open source software for the most part. Of course, $10K buys a lot of coffee. I might budget $10K for coffee...

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[LiENUS]

I think the 10K includes developing all versions of the game, it probably included visual studio and the sdk for the Wii.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Frosty Piss]

10 grand buys a lot of Cheetos's and Dew...

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Xtravar]

From what I understand, it was for therapy to recover from working at EA.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[kbrasee]

Yeah, the human story of EA is a good read. Wouldn't want to work there, even if the pay was good.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[X0563511]

Kyle did all the music.

http://kylegabler.com/WorldOfGooSoundtrack/

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Arthurio]

Where I live there's no such thing as 'unpaid overtime'. Instead by law this is the standard: regular overtime means 1.5x regular pay, overtime on weekends and national holidays means 2x regular hourly pay. Unpaid overtime sounds pretty much like slavery to me. I don't understand how this can be acceptable to anyone.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[ultranova]

Unpaid overtime sounds pretty much like slavery to me. I don't understand how this can be acceptable to anyone.

Slave owners usually find slavery quite acceptable due to the profits it brings them, and have more power than their slaves. And, of course, libertarians and their ilk are all for total contractual freedom, which results in de factor slavery due to the inherent power difference between a single employer and a single employee; this could easily be solved by unionising, but such voluntary cooperation is communism even thought corporations aren't for some reason.

In unregulated capitalism, slavery is freedom.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Midnight Thunder]

I'm curious what they spent the $10K on

If they were working full time then it probably covered living expenses, development tools (commerical SDKs) and more. Not everyone gets to live in their parent's basement. This is why if you really like the game I would encourage you by voting with your wallet. Free is good, but it prevents developers working full time on a project.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Rogerborg]

God spare you from the horrors of spending 30 seconds to find out before posting.

[2D Boy's] swanky San Francisco office is whichever free wi-fi coffee shop they wander into on a given day.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Bertie]

I'm reading that and wondering why on earth the whole team didn't just down tools and walk out. Even if they're not unionised, if they all acted together there's no way EA could have sacked the lot of them without flushing the product down the shitter. They'd have been forced to negotiate and these poor bastards might have got themselves some reasonable working hours.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[larry bagina]

In the US, salaried jobs are exempt from most overtime rules.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[fortunato]

God spare you from the horrors of spending 30 seconds to find out before posting.

[2D Boy's] swanky San Francisco office is whichever free wi-fi coffee shop they wander into on a given day.

Obviously I did, or a) I wouldn't have made the coffee reference, and b) I wouldn't have mentioned the open source software part.

So since you seemed to have found magically invisible information at the page you linked, perhaps you can share it with the rest of us?

As I said, $10K is hardly enough to live on so they either had money coming in from somewhere else, developed the whole game in a week, or they are not human.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[PixetaledPikachu]

Where are live, when you're paid per project basis, your monthly paycheck sum is fixed no matter how many hour you work in a month. You then get extra sum of money as a bonus after project completion. This is often implemented by IT consultant companies.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Erpo]

The could have budgeted some money for future updates to the Linux game. Just look at what happens to most closed source/commerical Linux native games:

1. The game is released. It may run well on most contemporary systems.
2. Time passes and critical libraries break ABI compatibility. (I'm looking at you, glibc).
3. The game no longer runs on modern systems.

For good longevity, a closed source game would need some kind of ABI shim between the closed executable and the multitude of unstable open source ABIs. For most games, this shim is called "wine" and that state of affairs makes me sad.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[KDR_11k]

From what I heard they ran out of money half way through and got a publisher to fund the rest which led to the short lived idea of a 40€ retail version for Europe with an extra chapter.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[LiENUS]

That's not as bad as it sounds. There's a lot of interest in keeping wine up to date, and they do a good job. In addition using wine as a shim has the potential to support more platforms than just Linux.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[WNight]

I'm all for total contractual freedom. If I can do something, why can't I contract to do it?

However, we shouldn't see contracts, and legal obligations, as anything "special". Certainly not something we are morally obliged to follow into certain personal ruin over an unseen loophole.

If I came to you and said I had a voodoo trinket concocted of your child's hair and lost teeth and that because of such, I own your child - so hand them over, you'd laugh at me, or worse.

So why would you do otherwise if I came to you with a sheet of paper, with a bunch of semi-latin text on it, claiming to own your child because of your failure to promptly pay your parking ticket?

An abusive relationship is such, regardless of how it's justified. There's only one good end for slavers - death. Properly applied this is the other branch of libertarian government- the personal realization of the right to proactive self-defense. It balances the rabid capitalism aspect you're familiar with.

Do unto others, but expect them to learn from this and attempt to do it first next time.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[ultranova]

I'm all for total contractual freedom. If I can do something, why can't I contract to do it?

However, we shouldn't see contracts, and legal obligations, as anything "special". Certainly not something we are morally obliged to follow into certain personal ruin over an unseen loophole.

You can already sign any kind of contracts you wish. However, only some of them are legally binding. Total contractual freedom means that all of them, including those which are clearly abusive, are legally binding.

Under total contractual freedom, if a contract you've signed has an unseen loophole, you're out of luck; it is legally binding nonetheless and you are forced by law and the legal system to follow it to the letter, even into certain personal ruin. So you need to either rethink either of your positions here, or clarify what you mean.

So why would you do otherwise if I came to you with a sheet of paper, with a bunch of semi-latin text on it, claiming to own your child because of your failure to promptly pay your parking ticket?

It's not a question of what I believe, it's a question of what the judge believes. However, in this particular case, I couldn't sell my child even under total contractual freedom, since I don't own my children in the first place, I'm merely their guardian. It might be possible to sign a contract on a child's behalf selling itself to slavery, thought.

An abusive relationship is such, regardless of how it's justified. There's only one good end for slavers - death. Properly applied this is the other branch of libertarian government- the personal realization of the right to proactive self-defense. It balances the rabid capitalism aspect you're familiar with.

Problem is that the rabid capitalist aspect doesn't really leave you any chance to defend yourself against those who are better at it than you are. The main problem with unregulated capitalism is that it is far easier to earn capital once you already have it, which results in magnification of any wealth differences to huge levels; and since wealth is a form of power, that too is concentrated. When this is coupled with hands-off social policy from the government, allowing those with power to wield it with minimal oversight, the end result is feudalism.

The ironic thing here is that I actually agree with libertarians about the goal: maximum personal freedom. I simply don't think that it can be achieved without sufficient economic controls to ensure that the rich don't abuse their power, and that the poor don't need to fear starvation.

And the good end for slavers is to force them to apologize on their knees, then have them make restitutions to the best of their abilities, and finally allow them to build another business while being kept an eye on.

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Spheroid2]

I think you'll find most libertarians don't oppose unions. What they do oppose are government-provided special rules for unions (strikes being 'legal', for example).

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[WNight]

Total contractual freedom means that all of them, including those which are clearly abusive, are legally binding.

No. There's a big difference in being able to contract, even for life-threatening things, and being held to ridiculous clauses of a clearly manipulative contract.

So you need to either rethink either of your positions here, or clarify what you mean.

That I should be able to contract for, let's say, testing some experimental AIDS drug, even if this might kill me. If I'm dying I want the right to choose.

This is not the same as thinking that if I get you to sign a contract without reading some fine print on the back of page four that I should own your soul. Theoretically (pre-EULA madness) contracts require both parties understand and accept the terms of the contract.

It's not a question of what I believe, it's a question of what the judge believes.

No, it's not though. Judges have ordered some pretty stupid things. At some point you'll have to consider how far you'll follow an order.

However, in this particular case, I couldn't sell my child even under total contractual freedom, since I don't own my children in the first place,

What if a judge said you did? The laws have been pretty crazy at some times... Is that your only objection? Or would you refuse to cooperate with the legal slavery order?

And the good end for slavers is to force them to apologize on their knees, then have them make restitutions to the best of their abilities, and [...]

I'm all for accepting apologies, if they're from someone who turned themselves in and stopped the behavior before being discovered. But if I were a slave I'd be pissed off if you wasted thirty seconds trying to capture the slavers rather than rescue us sooner. No vindictiveness, no torture, just swatted like dangerous insects so you can more easily save their human victims.

Problem is that the rabid capitalist aspect doesn't really leave you any chance to defend yourself against those who are better at it than you are. [..] coupled with hands-off social policy from the government, allowing those with power to wield it with minimal oversight, the end result is feudalism.

I'm not advocating a society of the knife, just that we admit we are already living in one. People have been sent to Iraq against their wills, certainly Iraqis have been killed against their will. And all dancing to the tune of our still nearly feudal overlords.

But we can't just disclaim responsibility because we're acting under orders, or more conveniently yet again, we're the 99% of the population who get to scapegoat the 1% who has to follow orders. We need to take moral responsibility for what we participate in, even if someone else is saying it's okay.

People at so many levels could have stepped up to stop many of the abuse of recent years (and always, I'm sure). Maher Arar for a specific examaple, but also the thousands of others like him, of any race, on either side of the world. Innocent people arrested because of McCarthyan suspicion and sentenced to truly brutal tortures. Any police officer, FBI agent, army officer, etc could have recognized injustices being done during their arrest, interrogation, and shipment to a hostile (to them) foreign country, and blown the whistle. But instead through everyone's complicity things were done that everyone would claim to be against, yet nobody tried to stop.

This is caused by blind adherence to the law. The law gave these guys guns and an order to kidnap someone. If they don't check that order, perform some amount of due diligence, what's the difference between the law and some street gang's "protection"?

The second branch of government is individual conscience. You have to have your own view of right and wrong, and at least not let yourself be pushed into wrong, even if you don't "fight" for ri

Re:Did they actually use all $10K?

[Narnie]

$2,527.98 - Laptops for programing
$450 - Rent Mom's basement
$274.83 - Ramon, Pizza, coffee, & Mountain Dew
$68.57 - High speed internet
$6678.62 - One night of hookers and blow for two nerds

DRM-Less

[Bonker]

World of Goo is DRMless. There are no copy protections upon it.

It's also very worth the $20. There's a level editor and fan-made levels starting to spring up as well, so even after you've exhausted the LENGTHY puzzle challenge, you can play other challenges to your heart's content.

Go purchase this game.

Re:DRM-Less

[RichiH]

I love the game, but it's not lengthy. Neither is Crayon Physics. You can beat both in a few hours, but that's not the point. They are fun, simple as that.

Re:DRM-Less

[lordofthechia]

Should also note that they have free demo .rpm and .deb so it's easy to give the game a try and see if it's worth your $20 (which as Parent pointed out, it really is).

http://worldofgoo.com/dl2.php?lk=demo

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

I would have bought it if it had properly supported current resolutions. I kept tabs on it a few months but eventually gave up waiting for it to happen.

Any game that won't run on my desktop resolution, I steer clear of. It messes up my desktop icons and widgets and resorting those afterwards every time is too annoying to be worth it.

I have to wonder how two apparently experienced game developers could overlook such an apparently small issue. Is it really very tricky to do?

Re:DRM-Less

[Anonymous Coward]

Run the game in a window.

Re:DRM-Less

[Barny]

Its because you don't need to run it at uber rez to see how well crafted the game is, its perfect and very worth the price (cheaper than a 2h trip to the movies, and more fun).

Re:DRM-Less

[X0563511]

Edit the preferences file. There is a disclaimer in it that states playing with the resolution might cause your computer to explode.

I haven't seen it happen yet.

Meanwhile, I enjoy my World of Goo in glorious 1680x1050.

Re:DRM-Less

[Sibko]

As someone who's played it... No. No, it is not worth the $20 they charge for the game.

Look, it's common courtesy to say such and such is great or fantastic so you don't hurt feelings, but I'm being honest here. This is a glorified flash game with all of about 15 minutes of actual gameplay that is simply repeated over and over.

It's alright, it's what you might expect from a flash game on Newgrounds or wherever. But it most certainly is not worth $20. Just want to put that out there so people don't buy this expecting something different. [I'd recommend playing the demo first, so you know what you're getting into.]

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

I see you completely ignored what I wrote. It doesn't _matter_ how great the game is, if running it leads to me having to reorganize my desktop afterwards each time.

No game ever released is worth that hassle to me.

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

Yes, I read about this workaround in the forums. At that time it cut off parts of the visible area making the part you need to click to finish a level unavailable.

Apparently they hacked together a fix so "not as much" is cut off making it possible to finish the levels. Last I read there were still issues though.

I assumed they would make a proper fix, so I decided to wait for that rather than take the chance at the time. Apparently they have decided not to do so, and unless they've updated the demo to the new code I'd have no way of testing the workaround before buying.

Re:DRM-Less

[grumbel]

That will change the resolution, however the graphics seems to be build for 800x600, which means everything is going to look quite pixelated at 1680x1050, which especially with the vector-graphics look is a little annoying.

Other then that however, very well done game.

Re:DRM-Less

[ghmh]

I suspect this is a limitation imposed just as much by the desktop as it is by the game?

Re:DRM-Less

[Ed Avis]

Apparently you can change the resolution: Program Files -> World of Goo -> properties -> config.txt.

(IMHO it is Windows's behaviour of rearranging the whole desktop just because you played a game fullscreen which is retarded.)

Re:DRM-Less

[apoc.famine]

And if you don't want to risk the $20 (well worth it) download the demo. It's the entire first 1/4 of the game.

I've purchased several copies as gifts so far - they give you a customizable download page when you purchase a copy. You can write your own message, and afaict, the full-copy download link is good for quite some time. Downloading my linux copy off the link I was mailed when I purchased my copy back in December.

And they're still small enough that you'll get an email back if you write to them.

Re:DRM-Less

[Animaether]

That is indeed incredibly stupid - although I've not encountered it after playing a game normally, if a fullscreen game *crashes* I am indeed SOL. ..well, partly.

Grab this:
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/iconrestore.html

It allows you to easily store and restore the layout of your desktop icons - perfect for these situations.

Re:DRM-Less

[Animaether]

Although I completely concur on the 'play the demo first' part, I do wonder what you mean by "it is not worth the $20".

Yes, there's Flash games online that you can play for 'free'; they have ads around them (yes, you can block those ads, but as long as hundreds of thousands don't, I'm sure they don't mind all that much)

So would rather they put advertising in/around the game and make it available for $0? (knowing that some will then just strip out the advertising, of course.)

Or are you simply saying "It's not worth $20, but it is worth $N"? If so - what's N?

I understand that 'worth' is a subjective thing and can't fully be rationalized as 'at minimum wage for a minor, it's only 5 hours' work - they'll get more than 5 hours of enjoyment out of this game' or 'I suppose you could buy 3 grande super macchiato lattes with whipped cream and cholate shavings for $21 instead - but those don't last at all', so I'm asking you specifically what you think it -is- worth, with rationalization.

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

Unfortunately that would not solve my widgets issue. Also, I run another application (Fences) that interferes with other icon positioning apps. I've sent them a bug report on that, hopefully they'll get it fixed.

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

Indeed. It's idiotic of Windows to not simply remember icon positions per resolution.

In my case it's further complicated by running a dual screen setup. All sorts of fun stuff happens to my secondary screen when the primary one lowers its resolution.

Re:DRM-Less

[grumbel]

Yes, and that seems to be you.

Hint: Just because vector graphics might have been used in production doesn't mean they will end up in the game, in this case its all pixel textures.

Re:DRM-Less

[Kjella]

Hmm, just played the demo now on my KDE3.5 desktop and it didn't mess up my icons - everything was where I expected it to be. I have experienced exactly what you're describing with certain WINE games though, particularly those that crash midgame have a tendency to screw up everything. Like you, I much prefer games that can run at my native resolution though, even if they just upscale the graphics.

Re:DRM-Less

[LEMONedIScream]

So his/her opinion is worth less because he has infringed on someone else's copyright before? Assuming, of course, that he has infringed at all.

Re:DRM-Less

[Kjella]

Wow, the ministry of truth is out in numbers today. He stated his opinion, so it gets modded down as overrated and gets told it's because he steals so much. I played it, it was fun but it was also fairly repetitative. Doing just a quick search shows that you can get Civilization 4 complete (Civ4, Beyond the Sword and Warlords) for 22$ or Oblivion for 19$. A bit unfair competition maybe against older games that's now in the bargain bin but if you hadn't tried any of them I'd buy either before World of Goo. 20$ is quite okay, but it's nowhere near a bargain and just because it has a native Linux version doesn't make it so either.

Re:DRM-Less

[SashaM]

While by no means a short game, I'd hardly call World of Goo lengthy. I recall spending months on Lemmings, an oldie in the same genre, with sometimes weeks on certain difficult levels. World of Goo took me a whole of a few days to finish. I'm looking forward to harder fan-made levels.

Re:DRM-Less

[boteeka]

It is not about the "uber rez", it is about a game should run on the native resolutions of LCD displays currently available on almost any laptops and LCD monitors. If you are running _anything_ on other than the native resolution on an LCD display it looks pretty awful. So, GP has a good point here.

Re:DRM-Less

[argiedot]

What grandparent meant is that getting used to getting movie quality games for free makes you less willing to pay for good quality games.

Like this: "Man, Battlefield 2 was way better than this and I got it off The Pirate Bay. This game is nowhere near that _and_ I have to pay."

Not claiming OP infringes, simply clarifying what seems to me an obvious point.

Re:DRM-Less

[Dunkirk]

Sounds to me like you're running the Windows version at it's default resolution of 800x600. You can change that to whatever you like in the properties/config.txt file, just like in the Linux version. I don't know if the game supports crazy shorted widescreen modes or whatever, but I suspect there's something there for you.

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

Yeah, I forgot to mention I was talking about the Windows version.

I read about manually changing resolutions by modifying the config file. However, to begin with, setting that to a widescreen mode led to situations where the area you needed to click to continue to next level was off-screen.

They apparently hacked together a fix for that, but from what I've read it's still cuts off parts of the screen, just not enough to render the game unplayable.

Re:DRM-Less

[TrancePhreak]

It is a byproduct of how they handle the resolution switch. Windows supports a temporary switch which will not destroy all window & icon positions. Likely SDL does not support this method. Even still, it is not hard to support every resolution, I myself have done it and it only took an hour or so to handle.

Re:DRM-Less

[TrancePhreak]

From another place I commented since lots of people are making this mistake:

It is a byproduct of how they handle the resolution switch. Windows supports a temporary switch which will not destroy all window & icon positions. Likely SDL does not support this method. Even still, it is not hard to support every resolution, I myself have done it and it only took an hour or so to handle.

Re:DRM-Less

[KDR_11k]

I'm pretty sure SDL does support it since UT2004 did no such messing for me and when I wrote my own game in PyGame there were no such issues either.

Re:DRM-Less

[DirePickle]

Also, Battlefield 2 is $20 as well.

Re:DRM-Less

[Jeremi]

As someone who's played it... No. No, it is not worth the $20 they charge for the game.

Well, I got about 12 hours of game play out of it and found it really enjoyable. Given that I am (sometimes) willing to spend $9 for 90 minutes of entertainment at a movie theater, $20 seemed like a good value to me.

Re:DRM-Less

[X0563511]

They seem to scale with a filter, or truly are vector. No pixelation for me.

Re:DRM-Less

[X0563511]

Hrm, the only issue I have is that, on completion, the black-bars at the top and bottom are two pixels short of the edge of the screen (so you see more than you should). Nothing extra cut off.

I guess it depends on what resolution you set it to.

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

The problem is widescreen resolutions. Checked the Goo forums just now and the latest patch still cuts screen so you see less than in 800x600.

For non-widescreen higher resolutions it seems to be working fine now.

Re:DRM-Less

[X0563511]

I use 1680x1050 - and don't see any showstoppers.

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

They fixed the showstopper. Before they did you were unable to finish a level in most (all?) widescreen resolutions.

Re:DRM-Less

[kiddygrinder]

Your opinion is invalid because it is different to mine.

Re:DRM-Less

[Barny]

As a temp fix, make a second account and just run WoG under that...

Re:DRM-Less

[Mascot]

I appreciate the suggestion, but that's not exactly convenient either.

Either they fix this properly at some point and I hopefully hear about it so I can buy it, or they don't. It's just a game.

Re:DRM-Less

[KlausBreuer]

Nope, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.
I've played plenty of flash games (hey, they're free!), actually supported quite a few of them (PayPal is your friend), but - this game is different.

Every piece of it has been very carefully crafted, nothing here was done to the usual "Don't care, get it out by Friday!" mentaility we see so often. These guys took the time to really Make It Right. The whole thing made me laugh quite a lot, and I very thoroughly enjoyed it.
And, just to reply directly to your "over and over" - apparently you haven't played this game very much. It keeps changing, quite a bit in places, and never, ever, seems to repeat itself...

Additionally, no DRM. I actually bought this game three times (download for me, DVD when it appeared, and for a friend), something I've never done before.

Re:DRM-Less

[nbates]

This was a game I felt morally compelled to buy, and also think $15 (wiiware version) for it wasn't too much.

Thank you Nintendo for making the Wii store unavailable in my country! You saved me $15.

Re:DRM-Less

[nbates]

I hate it when somebody thinks he can make a rule out of his own experience.

Ok, you didn't like it. Great, you won't pay $20.

But the reason that many people enjoyed the game and actually paid $20 after playing the demo (1/4th of the game), means that the game is worth the $20.

It is not a game for everybody, but for those who the game is aimed to, it is definitely worth $20.

Re:DRM-Less

[slack_prad]

Quake Wars is now $19.99 and I would say is worth. And it runs natively on linux.

Re:DRM-Less

[LingNoi]

Topic isn't about some id game..

Re:DRM-Less

[slack_prad]

It is about a game.

Re:DRM-Less

[msormune]

A very good point. I bought a pack of rts games: Supreme Commander, Dawn of War (+some extra pack) and Company of Heroes.... all together for about 20 bucks... But I did buy World of Goo, too :)

Re:Paypal?

[mail2345]

Look closer:
http://2dboy.com/sneakyPaypal.gif

Just bought it

[Psychotria]

I am not particularly interested in the game (I prefer FPS) but it looks like a bit of fun. Even if I do not play it all that much (or at all!), I am happy to give the developers $20 for their effort. In fact, I am pondering buying it TWICE. Games for linux should, in my opinion, be supported. Well done.

Re:Just bought it

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not particularly interested in the game (I prefer FPS) but it looks like a bit of fun. Even if I do not play it all that much (or at all!), I am happy to give the developers $20 for their effort. In fact, I am pondering buying it TWICE. Games for linux should, in my opinion, be supported. Well done.

I tried to by this game..but my Visa card number was not accepted. It is a number issued by the bank that is valid for one purschase. It is safer that way... Dissapointing :(

I played the demo under wine but...

[Phyrexicaid]

I specifically held off buying the game until the Linux version was available.

I did the same with Doom3

Re:I played the demo under wine but...

[SanityInAnarchy]

I've been watching Greenhouse with this in mind, actually. Indie games, some of which look really good and interesting. World of Goo has had a "coming soon" button there for forever.

Well, Greenhouse doesn't have it yet, and this version has no DRM at all, and even a native deb. Awesome! Impulse buy!

I'd be curious to know what the statistics are, there...

Re:I played the demo under wine but...

[RichiH]

Way too passive unless you did _tell_ them about that fact in advance. I emailed them about it and made them promise. _Then_, I pre-ordered (they needed money back then, they have enough, now).

Re:I played the demo under wine but...

[Phyrexicaid]

Perhaps it was in this case, but for Doom3 I emailed the guy who did most of the work on porting to linux and thanked him. I mentioned that it was the reason I bought the game.

He replied and said it was a pleasure :)

Interesting.

[Daemonax]

Interesting that they used a lot of software that is available to anyone. Perhaps there is some hope for young bedroom/basement hackers.

Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[Jeremy Visser]

I have Linux, which, according to TFA, is supported.

$ ./WorldOfGoo.bin
-bash: ./WorldOfGoo.bin: cannot execute binary file
$ file WorldOfGoo.bin
WorldOfGoo.bin: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped

I have a PowerPC processor, and I have Linux, and yet it does not work. They should advertise that it's only available for x86 users.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[FunWithKnives]

Being a PPC Linux user, you should understand that unless a piece of software specifically offers a PPC download alongside the 'regular' (x86) one, well, it most likely ain't available for PPC. For some reason you seem not to.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[SanityInAnarchy]

Why not? They've ported it to the Wii, which is a PowerPC processor. They've also got Windows, Mac, and Linux ports to begin with, and the Mac port is a Universal Binary, as in, both x86 and PPC.

I can see why they wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on it, but this really looks like nothing more than a cross-compile needed. And yes, even if they wanted to do ARM.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[SanityInAnarchy]

He probably understands perfectly well, and is just expressing his annoyance at that situation.

Besides which, many open source projects are only offered for download as source tarballs, which tend to compile just as well for ppc as for x86. So, if this is his first encounter with a (proprietary) game, that's a reasonable mistake.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[nawcom]

Not to bitch at two poor programmers who live off of ramen noodles, as they made a great game - but i guess i am surprised that they didn't cross compile this for ppcs. My first guess is that they didn't even think about it. Which is fine. Also, they probably assume that if you have a system that uses a PPC, you are running OS X, which is what the Mac version is for. That too isn't always true. Anyways, this is to 2dBoy: Cross compile that Linux binary to PPC foos!!!!

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[Jeremy Visser]

He probably understands perfectly well, and is just expressing his annoyance at that situation.

Indeed I do, and am.

I wonder if it's possible for proprietary games to have architecture-neutral byte-code blobs, and have an open source "shim" that can be compiled on multiple architectures, which will "compile" the blob into architecture-specific code on-the-fly.

Isn't this something like what Java does with .class files?

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[Haeleth]

I can see why they wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on it

Frankly I'm already amazed they bothered to target Linux/x86, which is already an incredibly tiny games market. Linux/PPC is a fraction of the size of that again! There may well not be more than a few dozen people in the world who (a) use Linux/PPC, (b) don't have a single x86 box they can play games on, and (c) are interested in paying for closed-source games.

but this really looks like nothing more than a cross-compile needed.

Cross-compilation is not always trivial. And then you need to conduct all the testing, etc. And at the end of all that, you might get a handful of sales at most.

The simple truth is that no commercial software company is ever going to target desktop Linux on anything but the most common platforms. If you want to use an unusual processor, you're going to have to stick with free software.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[tepples]

I wonder if it's possible for proprietary games to have architecture-neutral byte-code blobs

Yes. It's called XNA. But as of right now, the runtime is compiled only for Windows and Xbox 360, and the Xbox 360 version is licensed on a subscription model.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[ultranova]

I have a PowerPC processor, and I have Linux, and yet it does not work. They should advertise that it's only available for x86 users.

Yes. However, unless this thing uses assembly, which seems unlikely, it's probably just a matter of recompiling it on a PPC machine, or cross-compiling for it. Maybe you should ask the authors to do so?

Of course, the really smart thing to do would be to just offer a source tarball, and let users of exotic machines compile it for themselves. Since there's no DRM and apparently no proprietary third-party libraries in this thing, it shouldn't be a problem, and might even generate extra sales.

That's what I would do, anyway. After all, I wouldn't want to lose a sale just because someone wants to play the game on some platform I've never even heard of.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[SanityInAnarchy]

No, Java runs platform-independent code in a virtual machine, with no guarantee that any architecture-specific code will be compiled at any point.

Except for the fact that all major desktop Java implementations do just that with JIT, and gcj can statically compile it.

It provides portability but there's a significant performance cost.

Also a performance advantage. There's a reason LLVM is used in some parts of OS X that actually need performance.

Sometimes JIT compilation can be used to claw back a fair bit of performance, but that's not available for all platforms, and mostly useful for long-running server processes.

It is available for far more platforms than a platform-specific x86 binary. And a game certainly runs long enough for the performance advantages of runtime optimizations to kick in. About the only thing that wouldn't is a commandline app.

Loads of games are written to run in VMs: the most popular host VM is of course Flash.

Which really doesn't have a compatible open source implementation. Also doesn't support many targets we'd like -- for example, PPC LInux.

Major titles still need to be written in languages that compile down to native code

Like Java?

in order to provide the level of AI, physics, etc. that today's gamers expect.

I don't think you'll find any such heavy CPU requirements for World of Goo.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[SanityInAnarchy]

Frankly I'm already amazed they bothered to target Linux/x86, which is already an incredibly tiny games market.

Several indie games have found that Linux sales actually made a huge dent -- some found that their overall sales spiked when the Linux version became available, even if many of the new users played it on Windows.

And keep in mind, they already had everything portable enough. Porting to Linux would be much harder, I think, than porting from Linux to PowerPC.

(a) use Linux/PPC, (b) don't have a single x86 box they can play games on

Hey, I had a Powerbook. Powerful enough that I'd have loved to have a few games available while I was mobile. Expensive enough that I really didn't look forward to ditching it and buying a brand new laptop right away.

Yes, I had an x86 machine. A desktop.

Cross-compilation is not always trivial.

In this case, it actually really is.

And then you need to conduct all the testing, etc.

Or you could simply release an unsupported version. No one ever seems to do that, though.

Then there's the question someone else asked -- is this a game which really needs the raw performance of C or C++? Why wasn't it written in Java, or another language targeting the JVM? That would've trivialized the OS portability even more, and made the CPU architecture a no-brainer.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[Dunkirk]

Just for the record, it works great on my Gentoo amd64 system! (Including NOT having a problem with compiz-fusion, like they suggest in the readme it might.)

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[TrancePhreak]

"Then there's the question someone else asked -- is this a game which really needs the raw performance of C or C++? Why wasn't it written in Java, or another language targeting the JVM? That would've trivialized the OS portability even more, and made the CPU architecture a no-brainer."

For that to be usable, you would need a machine capable of running games quickly in a VM. This cuts away at your market significantly.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[SanityInAnarchy]

For that to be usable, you would need a machine capable of running games quickly in a VM. This cuts away at your market significantly.

In short: No, it really doesn't, especially when we're talking about a game like World of Goo. This is a game that likely would've worked as a Flash game.

You're again imagining a serious performance hit that doesn't exist. There is a performance hit, but it's relatively small (and occasionally negative), in exchange for faster development, fewer bugs, and easier cross-platform. The most performance-intensive things are going to be graphics, physics, and sound, and there are cross-platform C libraries for each.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[TrancePhreak]

Go back and check the casual market that this is aimed for. 800mhz computers with integrated cards that probably have trouble running "advanced" Flash.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[KDR_11k]

Then there's the question someone else asked -- is this a game which really needs the raw performance of C or C++?

Yes because it's primarily designed for an embedded system (the Wii) that doesn't have enough RAM or CPU that you could just throw a JVM at it. Plus I doubt there are any libraries for the Wii hardware for Java so there'd probably be some need to write tools, not exactly what you want to do when you've got only two guys and plan to make a budget priced game.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[KDR_11k]

The main platform was the Wii. Does that have a JIT-capable JVM?

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[kiddygrinder]

It took the guys MONTHS to get it running in linux, and no, it probably wasn't worth the effort (it worked pretty well in wine anyway) for the 82 sales it will get them (including me) but good work anyway.

Re:Doesn't work for *all* Linux users

[SanityInAnarchy]

Point taken -- probably not, but I'm not sure. Then again, the Wii is capable of 3D, so I would think that a 2D game would work well enough.

I'd imagine that llvm would also make a good target for the PC ports. I'd also imagine that a JVM port would work well, but I don't know if Nintendo has a decent one, with OpenGL bindings and everything... However, it is a PowerPC processor, so I don't think the JIT would be a problem.

Unfortunately, as another poster points out, the closest thing we have to cross platform + consoles is XNA, and that's only PC and Xbox 360.

Re:Paypal?

[Phyrexicaid]

Not seeing the sneaky method when I click the buy now button. Perhaps it's region specific?

Nice game.

[miffo.swe]

I bought it and its very interesting and challenging =)

The problem for me personally is that i gladly buy things for Linux but its really damn hard to find stuff to pay for.

Re:ahhh

[assert(0)]

Don't lump us trichomophobes with pedofiles you insensitive clod!

Re:Paypal?

[Curtman]

Can you buy it for Linux without going through Paypal?

The page says:

NOTE: You don't actually have to have a paypal account to use that button above. After you click it, just click "continue" on the left side of the next page to use any standard credit card. Paypal is sneaky!

Why would paypal be responsible for returning your money if a 3rd party rips you off anyway? Why not pay Visa for that service?

Addictive

[Jack Malmostoso]

It does have the same "one more level and then I'll go to bed" thing that only Lemmings or Tetris had. And it works like a charm on my AMD64 Debian machine. Highly recommended.

I don't even care that it's not FOSS

[ndogg]

When it comes to games, I just don't care that much if they're not FOSS. I only care if it's supported under Linux--and not through Wine.

I consider games far more to be artwork than just software.

That said, I am a big fan of the id/John Carmack style of releasing source code after a game is no longer commercially viable, and I do wish more companies would do the same.

Re:I don't even care that it's not FOSS

[CortoMaltese]

When it comes to games, I just don't care that much if they're not FOSS.

Yeah, but I do mind if a game is advertised on ./ with a phrase like "Lovers of both games and Free Open Source Software will be pleased..." when the game itself is not FOSS.

It would be news if some noteworthy game was released as FOSS, but it's definitely not news these days anymore if free software has been used in the development of a game, and a low budget indie game at that.

Re:I don't even care that it's not FOSS

[Rhone]

Yeah, but I do mind if a game is advertised on ./ with a phrase like "Lovers of both games and Free Open Source Software will be pleased..." when the game itself is not FOSS.

There's certainly potential for misunderstanding, but the phrase is perfectly sensible considering it's referring to a game being released for a FOSS OS.

It would be news if some noteworthy game was released as FOSS, but it's definitely not news these days anymore if free software has been used in the development of a game, and a low budget indie game at that.

Yeah, it's not news for FOSS to be used in the development of a game, but I'd say it's news (on a site like Slashdot, at least) for a game that gets reviews as good as WoG's to be released natively for Linux.

Loki

[Anonymous Coward]

Chicken-and-egg problem? If i remeber correctly Loki games went under exactly because no one was buying any (enough) Linux games. It's laughable to think that the release of Goo will change the gameing landscape on it's own, as the summary suggests. Linux is not mainstream yet, unfortunatly.

Re:Loki

[malkavian]

Loki, if I remember aright, were exclusively Linux in a time that Linux had less appeal than it does today.
These guys are going cross platform, which removes the whole "all eggs, one basket" approach. They've made the money from the larger market, and they're now doing the right thing by opening up to the smaller ones. If more people took that extra last step, it could feasibly change the market.
Half the problem at the moment is that the suits in the Big Games Makers are stating that nobody buys Linux games and it's not worth making any effort to port a game that way. IF WoG makes money (even if not huge amounts) compared to the cost of the port, it may act as a pointer to state that "not profitable" assumption is in fact a fallacy.
In these increasingly cash strapped times, all profit is good money, even if it's a little.. Even if it's just above break even and keeps your guys working a little longer until the economies pick up again.

Re:Loki

[LDoggg_]

That's not entirely correct.
Loki's business model was different.

Loki would pay game companies to license each copy of the game and then port and sell the linux versions. They made bad business decisions like buying way too many licenses of certain games.

Loki would probably be in trouble still even if Linux was as popular then as it is now.

Re:Loki

[Dunkirk]

You had to go and bring them up. Might as well get the full story. Posting to Slashdot for the umpteenth time:

http://www.linux.com/articles/22324

Re:Loki

[larry bagina]

You're forgetting about opportunity cost. porting/recompiling for linux may be profitable in terms of revenue vs cost, but that time might be better spent (better ROI) working on their next game.

It already ran under Wine

[Ed Avis]

It's worth noting that the Windows x86 binary runs fine under Wine, and that's how I first played the game before buying it and running it on a Mac. A native Linux release is great news though.

Hey, waiting paid off

[RichiH]

I for one am glad I emailed them, making them promise to support Linux at _some_ point and then pre-ordering early in the game to make sure they had enough food to get this thing out the door. The last piece of software before WoG which I paid for was Vim. SuSE 8.1 before that. So yah.. ;)

Re:Hey, waiting paid off

[Barny]

Trying to help them along too, pre-installed their windows demo version on over 100 customers PCs so far, lets push the indie devs to make more great games that are worth paying for :)

Oh, for the record, I build pre-install environments for windows, I am not hacking or anything stupid to do this.

One thing is lacking, though

[RichiH]

They promised everyone who pre-ordered a profanity pack to replace the standard sounds with. But as they systematically kept all their promises up to now, I am not exactly worried ;)

Re:No GPL?

[grumbel]

Feel free to use the Free Software alternatives instead:

http://www.nongnu.org/construo/

Of course that lacks all the polish and advanced physics of World of Goo.

One less pirate

[meist3r]

Well, I gotta admit. I belonged to that 90% pirate numbers for the game which I got in a Windoze version and played under WINE as a means of "extended demo". Never really played beyond the third level though because I felt that if I really spend that much time on a game it should run natively. Now that there is a Linux client I'll gladly pay for it even though I'll probably never finish it. Just BECAUSE there is a Linux client made me want to pay for this.

Re:One less pirate

[LingNoi]

That's pretty sad, I run Linux but I pay and play for games because they're fun. Not because the author happened to compile a native binary for my OS.

I really don't understand this kind of behaviour and as a game programmer myself, I'd rather you look at the games themselves rather then the PR around it.

Re:One less pirate

[meist3r]

That's pretty sad, I run Linux but I pay and play for games because they're fun. Not because the author happened to compile a native binary for my OS.

I really don't understand this kind of behaviour and as a game programmer myself, I'd rather you look at the games themselves rather then the PR around it.

Problem is, most games are practically worthless to me if they don't run natively. WINE isn't really any good to play the stuff I want to play and I already have to swap hard drives to play certain games. I can live without that and most games aren't worth spending the money AND the effort of dual booting or swapping drives. If I buy a game to a half hour I won't do it if I have to through a 15 minute routine of shutting down all my running stuff, swapping the drive, booting it up, updating all the drivers and crap and then play. Too uncomfortable for me to spend money on usually. If it's a really great game like Half-Life2 or A Vampyre Story I will go through the swapping business once a month to play but I'm not buying a casual game like WoG for that.

Sometimes I pirate games to see if they'll run in WINE and if they do I even buy them. But that is seldomly the case. I buy all the games I REALLY want to play anyway but those that I have to go through work routines and are just a "a maybe I'd buy it but since there is all this work with dualboot or WINE, I won't". Like I said I got the full version of WoG because a friend recommended it and the demo was way too short to show me the game properly to see if it was worth 20 bucks. So I got the pirate full version but didn't really bother to play that much. It did, other than the demo, show me that I liked the game enough to buy it, but just not as a Windows executable. This is why I had to wait until now to get my version. I can see your point though but if you actually play the game you should at least seriously consider paying for it.

Finite element modelling ...

[alexibu]

Meshing will never be the same again.

This is really educational for kids (and adults) to learn about structures.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[meist3r]

On Steam I just find the Windows version, why? :(

Because you will have to wait until later this year when Valve announces Steam for Linux natively together with all the Source games in line with the release of the Source Engine powered Postal III

Re:Too late..

[meist3r]

I already got it for the Wii. I belive it is same for much of the players interested in this game. The linux sale will be low because of this.

I doubt that many other Linux users have a Wii or bought the game for another platform they don't use regularly. Even if they did they now own the game for all OSs (except the consoles of course). Buying it for the Wii is probably the worst option imho because you have to keep it on that one console and can't install it on other computers. But that's just my opinion. I didn't buy it for the Wii because I knew a Linux port was coming so I waited, until today.

Compared to other games the Linux sales will probably be pretty good. Hothead games mentioned that their first Episode of the Penny Arcade Adventures sold really well on Linux.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[LingNoi]

What makes you think there is going to be a Linux steam client?

The only thing I've heard about it is a nonsense rumour from a valve job advertisement.

Re:too bad

[LingNoi]

Bullshit excuse to pirate..

You could just buy and download the windows client and run it in wine. When you buy the game you get all three clients, windows, mac and linux.

You're pathetic.

dual head issue ..

[viralMeme]

You actually went out and bought the Windows version only to discover the Dualhead issue. What did they say when you posted on this issue on the support forum?

Linux user didn't RTFM ..

[viralMeme]

I would have found out before paying my $20.00 .. World of Goo is distributed only for Linux distributions based on the IA-32 architecture

Chicken and Egg?

[Lulfas]

There is no chicken and egg problem in games for linux. It's a market size issue. You take the number of people who are running linux on a box they can play games on, cut it to the number who would play your game, then cut it to those who are unwilling to load up XP in a VM to play the game. The market is small enough it's not worth while.

Re:Chicken and Egg?

[websitebroke]

The chicken/egg problem is that not enough people have linux running in the first place in part because there are no games for it. I've toyed around with the idea of installing a copy of Windows XP, specifically to play some games, but the hassle of installing/maintaining Windows, not to mention the cost, hasn't been worth it when I have a half dozen games that already run native in Linux. If you're more of a hard core gamer than I am, you probably will already have Windows, and won't go to the hassle of installing Linux.

Re:too bad

[websitebroke]

Huh, I'm running at exactly the same resolution with no trouble at all. It makes a 800x600 viewport on my left monitor (like all my other fullscreen games) I'm guessing you need to tweak your xorg.conf file. (mine required a lot of tweaking to get it to play fullscreen games like ut2004)

Re:too bad

[MR LOLALOT]

Nah, I play ET, OpenArena and others both full screen (left screen) and dual screen correctly, this is just happening with this game.

Re:too bad

[MR LOLALOT]

Oh, yeah, I could be buying something non-wprking (Linux version) with the option of using something unsupported (Windows version in Wine).

That's not something pathetic, it's cool, and paying for defective games Linux games would make me receive karma at Slashdot for supporting further defective developments.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[meist3r]

What makes you think there is going to be a Linux steam client?

The only thing I've heard about it is a nonsense rumour from a valve job advertisement.

Maybe you should update your facts. The Postal 3 dev listed Linux as a confirmed platform for the Source Engine in 2009. Since I doubt Valve will sell their games without Steam compatibility if they have a native Source engine I'm assuming they will also provide a native Steam client. This not only to me acts as proof that the "nonsense" rumor (actually from a really unsubstantial source: the Valve website!) is actually true and one of the precursors to a Linux port of Steam and the Source games.

With Source already ported to OpenGL on the PS3 there is further evidence that a port is not only possible but likely. Postal 3 is a confirmed Source engine based game for Linux in 2009. I'm expecting delays but this is as close to a Linux client Valve has ever confessed. They know through their hardware survey and forum participation that their users use WINE and Linux operating systems. They know the direction of the market and know that Steam is the perfect platform to distribute games to alternative OSs. I would actually be more surprised if they hired a Senior Linux Engineer and DIDN'T port Source/Steam.

OMG! PC Games: What systems will Postal III be released on?

Vince Desi: Xbox 360, PS3, PC, Mac and Linux.

http://www.omgpcgames.com/content/view/45/37/

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[argiedot]

This is awesome, Valve is awesome, you are awesome.

Re:Too late..

[Dunkirk]

I doubt that many other Linux users have a Wii or bought the game for another platform they don't use regularly.

I bought it for the Wii for the kids as sort of an impulse buy after I connected the console to the internet. My older son (aged 5) asked if we could put it on his PC, which runs Windows. (Hey, I'm an admitted Linux zealot, but it only goes so far.) I told him no, because I didn't want to buy it again. However, when I saw (through this article) that a Linux version was available, I immediately bought it, and installed it on his computer and mine. All three versions work and play great, thank you very much, and I'm glad to have spent some money with someone making a real, top-shelf game as a native Linux product.

A+++. Would buy again!

Re:too bad

[Dunkirk]

Wah! I can't read the instructions to find out how to hit Alt-Enter and play in a window!

or...

Wah! I'm just smart enough to run dualhead, but not smart enough to setup an extra metamode to allow me to play on a single screen!

Don't worry your pretty little head. I don't think they -expect- ANYONE to buy the game. Not even all-important "MR LOLALOT".

Re:ahhh

[lordtoran]

Everyone who modded this "Troll" has apparently never given oral love to a woman. The less hair down there, the better.

Re:too bad

[MR LOLALOT]

Wah! I can't read the instructions to find out how to hit Alt-Enter and play in a window!

What becomes a 2560x1024 window, no matter I start it FS 800x600, FS 2560x1024 or directly windowed. Sometimes with artifacts, some times not, either way unplayable.

Wah! I'm just smart enough to run dualhead, but not smart enough to setup an extra metamode to allow me to play on a single screen!

The metamode is already setup, working for ET, OpenArena and other SDL games like Teeworld.

Don't worry your pretty little head. I don't think they -expect- ANYONE to buy the game. Not even all-important "MR LOLALOT".

I expected this was Slashdot, but from your post pointing the lack of description of my problem, it's like I'm in the World of Goo bug tracking system. BTW please, insert your arrogant behaviour up your anus. Have a nice day.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[Jorophose]

Valve didn't port to OpenGL for the PS3; I'm pretty sure it was written "down-to-the-metal".

But, every major engine has OpenGL support. Some just choose to turn it off. It wouldn't be hard to turn it back on.

Steam has been on linux. How else do you get Left 4 Dead linux servers?... But it would be nice to see a full, officially supported, Steam client & source engine for linux. It means something.

Re:Paypal?

[scientus]

Paypal acts as an unregulated bank, and it becomes merky territory, most importantly if you ever "transfer" money in via debit or bank account you are pretty fucked. They have been shutdown in multiple jurisdictions for running an unregulated bank.

Free shifting?

[Merritt.kr]

My question: If I already bought the game (on my Wii), do I now get the Linux client for free? When I read the first slashdot story on this game, I ran over to my Wii and bought it! I wanted to support these guys, and hey, it looked to be a fun game. I haven't played it much however because I just don't get to sit down with my Wii very much. I would however goof off with it at work on my Linux laptop... So, can I just get the Linux version? If not, well... I ain't paying for it again, sorry, even if it is a good game.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[meist3r]

Valve didn't port to OpenGL for the PS3; I'm pretty sure it was written "down-to-the-metal".

Well the speculation is (it makes sense) that the foundation for the Source engine on the PS3 is OpenGL ES (for Embedded Systems) -granted, I got that from Wikipedia "Citation needed" but someone got that info from somewhere. I also know that the PS3 uses OpenGL ES. I'd be very suprised 1) if Valve actually invested that much time and effort into hand-recoding the engine for a not (yet) so lucrative market and 2) if they couldn't use the OpenGL implementation of the PS3 version. It's apparently written to OpenGL specs and it should be a walk in the park re-engineering that to run on regular hardware (at least compared to manually re-writing the whole thing).

But, every major engine has OpenGL support. Some just choose to turn it off. It wouldn't be hard to turn it back on.

I'd don't know about that. Many engines are developed around DirectX nowadays and those need some major code rewrites to work without a Microsoft supported platform. That's why DX is a rather attractive system because it has a lot of tools and does tons of effects for you (basically a non-Open OpenGL).

Steam has been on linux. How else do you get Left 4 Dead linux servers?

Don't jump to false conclusions. A game server is WAY different from the client. Different like Apache is different from Firefox. They both work together all the time but they do completely different things and have other requirements. The client software has to do all the audio/video processing and rendering as well as user inputs and outputs. That's why it is so difficult to write for the different platforms because they all have different APIs and such to do your work. The server on the other hand just receives status informations generated by the client and replies with his set of data combined from all the other players. Linux game servers have been around since forever but someone taking the time porting a high-end client to Linux is actually a great big step forward (I'm still waiting for the UT3 client that was promised to me more than a year ago).

... But it would be nice to see a full, officially supported, Steam client & source engine for linux. It means something.

Let's just hope it actually happens when Postal 3 comes out or at least shortly after. I'd buy P3 even if I don't like the game just because I want to see if and how it runs.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[Jorophose]

The news of Postal 3 for Linux gives me reason to really have confidence that Source & Steam are coming to linux. And all the source-based games, too, in due time. Maybe even a lot of the Steam games.

Plus, it would mean UT3 was just waiting on Steam. Jerks, but hey, they'd have delivered.

Hail the new messiah, same as the old messiah...

[goodmanj]

"a big step toward ending the chicken-and-egg problem of a dearth of good games that run natively under Linux."

So was the Quake port in the late '90s. So was Loki Software around 2000. So was Uplink in the mid-2000s. So was EVE a couple years ago.

People have been predicting the imminent end of crappy Linux gaming for ten years now; every new game is heralded as the savior of Linux gaming, and a year later we're pretty much back where we started.

This changes nothing.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[TrancePhreak]

The PS3 does not "use" OpenGL ES. There is an OpenGL ES layer available, but you'd be a fool to use it. It's very slow.

Does it come in a 'tar'ball?

[ramandu]

This reminds me of another game involving little black globs of something called Gish. Which is also available on linux, I haven't bought it but the demo was fun. Anyway downloading the WoG demo now, as several friends recommended it.

Game reminds me of Lemmings...

[antdude]

I posted a brief review about the game (Windows port).

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[meist3r]

What's with that OpenGL press release then? There it specifically says "...the company president showed off the development kit hardware and confirmed and the choice of OpenGL ES as the graphics API in order to facilitate rapid developer adoption and content creation. The Sony Playstation 3 will be using OpenGL ES for the 3D graphics API,..."?

So you have some contradicting information that you can provide? Give me a source that explains what PS3 graphics is build on or something. I'm glad if you can clear that up for me. From what I can see it's OpenGL ES (or maybe they use that for the menus only or what?)

[1] http://www.opengl.org/news/comments/sony_confirms_playstation_3_to_use_opengl_es/

And this as further proof

[meist3r]

[2] http://www.khronos.org/developers/library/siggraph2006/OpenGL_ES_BOF/OpenGL-ES-Demos.ppt
---
On the very first page after the title it says:

What is PSGL?
PSGL is the high-level graphics library for PlayStation3
PSGL is OpenGL ES

So everyone that is using PSGL is effectively using OpenGL ES and I can't possibly imagine every developer writing their own graphics API. But like I said, please prove me wrong.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[TrancePhreak]

I having trouble finding it, but basically there is an SDK that is very close to the metal for the PS3 GPU. Lots of developers have complained about getting enough performance out of it for HDTV resolutions, so I doubt they would want to use a large layer on top that would only slow them down. It doesn't take much for a reasonably sized company to add another renderer onto their already portable engines. They wouldn't need to start from scratch, they'd be pretty far along.

It's like on the 360, you don't really use DirectX, just something kinda similar but with very different rules. (A single hardware config allows for much greater freedom in how you use it also).

Re:No GPL?

[Elektroschock]

Two years ago I used Towers of Goo on Wine and it worked just fine.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[Burpmaster]

The Postal 3 dev listed Linux as a confirmed platform for the Source Engine in 2009.

Postal 3 isn't developed by Valve. So unless there's specific confirmation that the PC version of Postal 3 will be available on Steam and only Steam, this confirms nothing about Steam for Linux. Notice that neither of the previous games were released on Steam.

Re:too bad

[Macthorpe]

What did you expect as a response? Your solution to "I can't get it working exactly right" is "I'm going to steal it and then play it anyway, thus proving that not only does the game have worth to me that I'm refusing to give to the guy that wrote it, but that the problem I decided to use an excuse doesn't actually matter to me whatsoever."

To be honest, you're a fucking prick, but seeing as you're convinced that everyone telling you that you're a fucking prick is just Slashdot being Slashdot rather than the fact that you're actually a fucking prick, I suspect there's no point in me telling you that.

Re:too bad

[MR LOLALOT]

All the people telling me I'm a fucking prick is just you.

Take your meds again, then come back.

Re:too bad

[Macthorpe]

Self-delusion dies hard.

Re:too bad

[MR LOLALOT]

Indeed.

Software != Hammers

[zooblethorpe]

No, he's right. You don't just pay for the hammer's cost of creation, you pay for it's advertising, it's R&D costs, etc. It's exactly like software. There's far more to the cost of software than just the disc it is distributed on.

Precisely -- it sounds like you're ultimately making the same argument I am, that software is *not* like hammers, and that therefore the analogy is not apt. Hammers don't entail R&D costs (costs to develop the underlying IP), nor do they really entail advertising costs (costs to make a sale, unrelated to IP).

... Or were you trying to make a different point?

Cheers,

Re:Software != Hammers

[TrancePhreak]

Hammers do have R&D costs. Making a better hammer doesn't often happen by accident. There's also the money for developing the metal that is in the hammer.

Re:Software != Hammers

[zooblethorpe]

Hammers do have R&D costs. Making a better hammer doesn't often happen by accident. There's also the money for developing the metal that is in the hammer.

Fair enough about R&D to a point, but I must admit that I haven't seen any "better" hammers in my local hardware store, and I rather suspect that the grand-grand-grandparent poster wasn't referring to "better" hammers either, but rather the garden-variety ones available just about anywhere. For most hammers, it should be fair to point out that any R&D costs were borne back in the mists of forgotten history.

And about the material costs of producing a hammer, that again simply emphasizes the differences between physical tools like hammers and purely software tools -- with software, the costs to reproduce are so marginal as to not be meaningfully calculable.

Cheers,

Re:Hail the new messiah, same as the old messiah..

[grumbel]

Exactly, and a simple look at Windows gaming should tell us that this isn't going to change anytime soon, since the PC in general just isn't much of an gaming attractive platform, the Linux-PC even less so. Consoles are where the money is made these days.

Only hope I would see for Linux gaming would be if Valve did a native port for Steam and their games, but if or when that ever happens nobody knows.

On the other side Wine is much more solid today then it was back in early 2000, so from a gamers point of view, Linux is actually useful for at least some games.

Re:Paypal?

[Curtman]

So what does that have to do with why people think Paypal should refund their money? My current regulated bank doesn't do that.

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[kiddygrinder]

I think valve are mostly looking at doing a linux version of steam and the hl2 engine because Microsoft are looking for any way they possibly can to robustly fuck them in the anus, and not necessarily because of any obvious financial gain directly from the linux community as it is.

lemmings

[higuita]

hey, right, lemming is just a boring game, that repeats itself over and over... that is why i spend weeks of my life having alot of fun with it...

this game is just like lemmings, fun puzzle solving

go back to play your boring-self-repeating FPS or MMORPG over and over

Re:I can't find the Linux version on Steam...

[meist3r]

Postal 3 isn't developed by Valve. So unless there's specific confirmation that the PC version of Postal 3 will be available on Steam and only Steam, this confirms nothing about Steam for Linux. Notice that neither of the previous games were released on Steam.

Well, that means nothing. The Postal series is highly controversial and back when Postal 1 came out Steam didn't even exist. Postal 2 was a crappy game and based on the Unreal engine (so the license for that would have to lie with Activision and they surely won't give up IP using it's tech to Valve). Postal 3 is a Source title, the IP is held by Running with Scissors and it's a somewhat more "attractive" game to sell. Even if there is no Steam for Postal 3 ... it will be on Linux. To me that means Valve Games on Linux ... and I can't imagine a Valve business strategy NOT involving Steam at this point.

To be quite honest I couldn't care less about Steam. There is a Source engine port coming and I can't imagine how they would NOT use that to sell all their other Source titles on the platform as well. Since Valve's main business is the Steam platform it would be utterly senseless to get a licensed Source port to Linux and not cater to the platform via Steam. I believe it's safe to assume that the work done on Source for Linux will flow back into Valve's pool of technology. The next logical step then is to sell other Source titles and preferrably through your own distribution network.

You are right to some extent, so far there is no official confirmation for a Linux Steam client but to me all the evidence points into this direction.

Re:Too late..

[JohnBailey]

I already got it for the Wii. I belive it is same for much of the players interested in this game. The linux sale will be low because of this.

And you are entitled to your beliefs. I'm a Linux user, and I have a Wii, I waited for and bought the Linux version. These guys made a native Linux version, so I bought it. And I have absolutely no reservations when it comes to buying games for Linux if they exist. Just because I use a free OS and apps, doesn't mean I have a philosophical problem with paying for software. Problems with your assertion.. 1) Not all Linux users have a Wii. 2) Not all Wii users have connected their Wii to the net. It isn't exactly a highly net centric console like the PS3 or the Xbox. 3) Not all game players will want to play it on the Wii. 4) You underestimate the appeal of supporting Linux as a viable development and gaming platform by waiting for and buying a native Linux game. 5) ??? 6) Profit. Personally, I had the option, but didn't want to buy the Wii version. It involves purchasing Wii points and usually having a few left over, which I find annoying. Then if I decide to get rid of the Wii at some point, I lose the ability to play the game I bought. If I buy the PC version, I keep that ability to play on my next PC and my next and so on. And it looks like there is going to be a healthy user created game community, which is a huge point in it's favour as far as I'm concerned.

Re:too bad

[tabrnaker]

Sorry I'm late.

You're a fucking prick!

Have a nice day ;)