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Twitter Leads Social Networks In Downtime

illectro writes "A study on site availability by monitoring service Pingdom shows that in 2008 Twitter greeted users with the 'Fail Whale' for more than 84 hours, almost twice as much as any other site. At the other end of the scale imeem and Xanga managed less than 4 hours of downtime for 99.95% uptime. Myspace, Facebook and Classmates.com were the only other sites studied which managed to stay up more than 99.9% of the time."

175 comments

  1. They are cut off by Tamran · · Score: 1, Informative

    So go out and get some sunshine or something.

    1. Re:They are cut off by ProfMobius · · Score: 4, Funny

      Go outside, take a sunbath, twitter your friend about it... err, ha, well...

      --
      EULA : By reading the above message, you agree that I now own your soul.
    2. Re:They are cut off by jetsci · · Score: 1

      I really am curious about Twitter. I refuse to register for anymore 'social' websites...I'd rather actually go out and be social. But my question is, what is the point? Do my friends want to know I took a dump at the office at ~2:14pm today?....do they?

      --
      Bored at work? Play Game!
    3. Re:They are cut off by The+Dancing+Panda · · Score: 4, Funny
    4. Re:They are cut off by ProfMobius · · Score: 1

      Well, a friend of mine did this kind of stuff when he first got his iphone (via sms). But true, i don't see the point myself, beside when it is used by TPB members :)

      --
      EULA : By reading the above message, you agree that I now own your soul.
    5. Re:They are cut off by Rary · · Score: 1

      So go out and get some sunshine or something.

      Pfft. Who needs to go out to get sunshine?

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    6. Re:They are cut off by jetsci · · Score: 1

      Frankly...that just made me WANT to use it. Imagine the potential for abuse if your colleagues are on your 'list'? "Pulling all nighter at office" "Frustrated with this big account" "Heading down to archives for more info" Then call in the next day saying you need a personal day... I know that wouldn't fly in the private sector...go government jobs!

      --
      Bored at work? Play Game!
    7. Re:They are cut off by exley · · Score: 3, Funny

      Go outside, take a sunbath, twitter your friend about it... err, ha, well...

      No, what you need to do in that situation is go and create a Facebook group about it.

    8. Re:They are cut off by Drakonik · · Score: 1

      That's the thing. You can't force anybody to follow your twitter feed. Only people who WANT to know what you're doing in minor increments will follow your feed.

      Who says that 'social' has to equal face-to-face time? Face-to-face time is not terribly easy to get, what with having to actually travel to your friend's location. Twitter is the same as calling a friend and telling them what's going on every once in a while, except it's opt-in. Only people who WANT to know what's going on in between face-to-face meetings will follow your twitter feed. Everyone else can just wait to sit down with you to find out.

    9. Re:They are cut off by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What the readers of the feed think: Having a bunch of feeds to follow is a mildly amusing way to kill time

      What the owner of the feed thinks: That he's so awesome/important that people want to know what he's doing at all hours

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
  2. 84 hours???? by sunking2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And yet it had 0% impact on my life. So who really cares.

    1. Re:84 hours???? by gnick · · Score: 1

      Me either - I've never been tempted to visit twitter and would not have noticed.

      However, I have to give them props for the fail whale. I ran into that graphic somewhere-or-other and it's got to be the single best network-overload graphic I've seen.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:84 hours???? by motek · · Score: 1

      Well, 'social media' IS downtime. So either way, the users get what they are coming for.

      --
      I would like to die like my grandfather did - sleeping. And not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
    3. Re:84 hours???? by spydabyte · · Score: 1

      Based on the average of 50,500 tweets per day, that's 4,242,000 tweets lost due to 84 hours of downtime / year. If the downtime was at 8 or 9am, then that would only be roughly 3,024,000 tweets lost, or almost 5,460,000 tweets lost at 3pm...

    4. Re:84 hours???? by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      So millions of people were unable to tell their friends they were taking a dump? Oh, the humanity!

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    5. Re:84 hours???? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Ten years ago, slashdot was the place where people would come and enthusiastically discuss hot new technology and trends.

      Today, the easy upmods come from playing the part of the crotchety old traditionalist who could not care less about whatever new thing those damn kids are into, because if you can't do it with an awk script and a soldering iron, it shouldn't be done!

      Oh slashdot, has your spirit died?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    6. Re:84 hours???? by Khuffie · · Score: 1

      Someone needs to recheck their math.

      84 / 24 = 3.5 days of downtime.
      3.5 x 50,500 = 176750 tweets lost in a year.

      Not that it matters, since it's useless.

    7. Re:84 hours???? by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      I tweet each plop.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    8. Re:84 hours???? by maxume · · Score: 1

      He miswrote. It really is 50k tweets per hour.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  3. 99.9% uptime by jetsci · · Score: 1

    Go facebook! 'Stealing' my data, 99.9% of the time! (Yes, I do have a facebook account)

    --
    Bored at work? Play Game!
  4. 84 hours?!?! by RoFLKOPTr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find it kind of strange that a site as incredibly simple as Twitter had so much downtime. Granted, they probably don't have the multiple dedicated redundant datacenters to their name like MySpace and Facebook do... but still, they're only serving little tidbits of text.

    1. Re:84 hours?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Cause they picked ruby on rails, and built it in a totally unscalable way.
      Also, who cares.

    2. Re:84 hours?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So true.

    3. Re:84 hours?!?! by metalhed77 · · Score: 0

      Ummmm except that they handle a lot of little tidbits of text. Twitter isn't some chintzy simple site, they handle a HUGE volume of data. Their scalability problems come from their database layer (or rather their inability to setup a stable database layer) not Rails.

      I'm punching the next person who posts to this that it doesn't scale because of rails in the face. I'm sick of people who don't understand the HUGE distinction between scalability and performance.

      --
      Photos.
    4. Re:84 hours?!?! by LordKaT · · Score: 1

      holy shit, it's RoFLKOPTr

    5. Re:84 hours?!?! by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Awww, the poor little rails fan is gonna get violent on the internet. Good way to make a point, hotshot.

    6. Re:84 hours?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really. Twitter doesn't scale because it uses Ruby On Rails.

    7. Re:84 hours?!?! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh BS. A huge volume of extremely easy data. No images, no War & Peace length text posts. Just a lot of short, sweet, and simple text.

      I want you to say with a straight face that it's really just the amazing volume of data that separates a highly reliable and available site like Facebook from a constantly failing jumped up IRC client like Twitter.

      Twitter is a dog. And because it's written in Rails, it's a special needs dog that has to go to the vet a lot.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    8. Re:84 hours?!?! by inotocracy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Rails sucks, twitter is proof.

    9. Re:84 hours?!?! by CMonk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What does rails have to do with building in an unscalable way? You could say the same but sub in php, c, java, perl, .net, etc. As I understand it most of their problems stem from them thinking a SQL database would make a good message bus.

    10. Re:84 hours?!?! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Please see my reply to someone else further up. Twitter has publicly stated that their DATABASE issues are not and have not been due to Rails. They have publicly stated that they would choose Rails again for the Twitter project, given a choice.

      Please stick to the facts rather than baseless insults.

    11. Re:84 hours?!?! by quonsar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and mathowie said the same thing about ColdFusion for Mefi.

    12. Re:84 hours?!?! by metalhed77 · · Score: 2

      Your ad nauseum argument says nothing, but since some moronic people with mod points are out there I may as well respond.

      You haven't said anything specific about rails. There's tons of successful rails deployments out there, just because twitter's engineers suck at what they do doesn't mean the tech they use is bad. Tell me WHY does rails suck? What part of it is causing all these problems?

      Also, Twitter isn't just rails, from all accounts the problems they have are from other parts of their stack. Again, not the tech used there, but their inability to deploy and set it up properly.

      Also, If you've ever read about the architecture of Facebook you'd realize it's an extremely complex application. It's not just a simple LAMP stack, there's all kinds of caching and queing, with large hadoop clusters etc. Facebook is a HARD PROBLEM with a complicated solution. Luckily for facebook, they engineered it correctly. Those same tools if used improperly would not work.

      Furthermore, your assertion that the data is easy is wrong. EVERYTHING IS EASY FOR SMALL N. The problem isn't the content, it's the quantity of messages. You may as well have said a man who eats 1000000000 jelly beans did something far easier than a man who ate a large burrito.

      In short, don't hate the tool, hate the guy who's not using it right. Also, if you're going to critique something, be knowledgable and specific about it, don't just say X sucks because it sucks. Your ad nauseum argument says nothing.

      --
      Photos.
    13. Re:84 hours?!?! by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 1

      A huge volume of easy data with zero content. Unless of course you're deeply concerned about tracking all of your friends' and relatives' bowel movements.

      --
      This space available.
    14. Re:84 hours?!?! by blueZ3 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'd point out that your defense of rails is just as silly as the parent's attack. "Tons of successful rails deployments" adds exactly zero datapoints to the argument.

      And I'm not going to accept the statement of the Twitter folks that they would use rails again as some kind of argument in favor: a) they've failed, so their decision-making record isn't stellar and b) obviously they're going to defend their decision, since saying "Oh, we screwed up" is practically unheard of these days.

      This isn't a troll (really!) I'm just pointing out that I think you and the parent are not really having a productive discussion of the merits/demerits of rails. (Though what do I expect, this is /. after all) :-)

      --
      Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
    15. Re:84 hours?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm punching the next person who posts to this that it doesn't scale because of rails in the face.

      Hey! I've had rails in the face before and I can tell you it's a serious problem. Threats of violence are uncalled for.

    16. Re:84 hours?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's tons of successful rails deployments out there, just because twitter's engineers suck at what they do doesn't mean the tech they use is bad. Tell me WHY does rails suck? What part of it is causing all these problems?

      EVERYTHING IS EASY FOR SMALL N.

      Oh look, you answered your own question...

    17. Re:84 hours?!?! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The man who ate 100,000,000 jelly beans did do less than the man who ate 10,000,000 burritos. Not all data is created equal. There are whole worlds of complexity that come in when you have to deal with small data (like text) and large data (like images). You have to separate the handling of the files as much as possible.

      Twitters position, where their transactions are always the same types of data in the same amount...Those are very easy to abstract and scale. True scaling problems come in when you're hitting multiple different tables for multiple different types of queries. Reading, writing, and updating, all at the same time. The semaphore and data integrity problems get way ugly.

      If their system was well designed, they could simply throw more hardware at the problem, and the problem would go away...That's what "scalable" means, it means your process demands increase at the same rate (or lower) as your utilization increases.

      Look at how fast some of the other sites mentioned scaled up. Myspace and Facebook both exploded in popularity and grew extremely rapidly, and both of those applications scaled exceedingly well, and both of them have much more difficult problems to solve.

      Facebook in particular, Jesus, it's built out of every damn kinda crap imaginable. Php, java, python, C+, fucking perl. They claim they use Erlang too. You know why? Because they saw they had specific problems to solve, and they solved them with the best tool for that problem. They didn't insist one tool was all they needed.

      Note, there is no Ruby in that list. Maybe, like me, they never came across a problem for which it was the best solution.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    18. Re:84 hours?!?! by metalhed77 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well you misunderstand scalability. Scalable DOES mean you can just throw more hardware at something, as you said. But you omit the part the scalability has limits. There's always a bottleneck, so no app is infinitely scalable. You take your best guess at what its intended audience will be and you proceed form there.

      You can say my app's been designed so that it will scale when n is between 1 and 100,000 for instance. Or that it'll scale between 1 and 100,000,000,000,000. But the app you design for the later will be very different internally and take a lot more time to design. Most apps start out working only for small n because most apps will never get to big n or if they do, they do so gradually and give developers time to deal with it. Twitter was cursed by its own success, they didn't know it'd be as popular as it turned out.

      Let's look at some specific technical details.

      For most sites a single master DB server with slaves for reads is fine. Most apps out there don't need multi-master capabilities and thus implementing that would be a waste of time. In fact, most web apps you see out there are designed to run on a single DB server for reads and writes.

      When Twitter started that's what they had and it worked. Then twitter got unexpectedly popular, and at that point in time Rails did not support multiple DB connections per instance, so sharding wasn't really possible. Days after they announced this problem it was fixed so it's no longer an issue.

      We could speculate on problems they've had since then, but that would just be speculation. They've said repeatedly however that their stack's scalability issues have been in the non-rails parts (like the DB). Since they're the only ones who actually know what's going on, I'm inclined to believe them.

      Let's look at some other social app failures,

      An example would be myspace, which had horrible problems scaling, even though that was written in PHP which you consider to be super scalable. Or we could look at friendster, which was written in enterprisey java, which also had huge scaling problems. It's not the tool, it's how you use it.

      Additionally, when you scale real world systems you just may find out the bottlenecks aren't where you thought they'd be during the design and testing. Runaway successes like twitter are vulnerable to this fact.

      If you want to fault the Twitter engineers you really can only fault them for bad judgement in estimating the size of their user base. I don't think you know what Rails actually is. It's just helpers for YOUR code. Ultimately, a rails site is mostly your code, and your architecture.

      --
      Photos.
    19. Re:84 hours?!?! by metalhed77 · · Score: 1

      You've got a point, to an extent, I didn't make a list of successful rails deployments. Let's fix that with a list of successful rails apps:

      http://rubyonrails.org/applications

      --
      Photos.
    20. Re:84 hours?!?! by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      I don't really have enough experience with Ruby on Rails to authoritatively speak on the subject... however it does seem to me that Twitter's problems have been going on for months. In that time, it seems almost inconceivable that they haven't tried to fix it. If they continue to try to fix it and the problem keeps occurring then I can infer that they really don't know where the problem is or how it's occurring.

      Now, again I'm neither defending nor slamming their choice of framework, but it does appear as though anything they say about the problem is not authoritative. If they can't fix it, then it's time to consider re-engineering.

      Of course, re-engineering it may not be possible without significant work. Their current programmers may also be incapable of improving on their current model because they're inexperienced or are tied to their personal choice of framework... or both. I think that was the GP's point more than RoR being a failure.

      Personally, I can think of several different ways that Twitter could be re-engineered easily. It's really a simple app, and scalability should not be a problem. Yes, I've written highly scalable applications that do more complex stuff than Twitter does. While I've never personally dealt with the kind of load they do in production, I've certainly written enough "torture" scripts that are designed to load up my system to the point where they break... sometimes my torture scripts break instead.

      Of course, my comments are purely academic. But if Twitter doesn't hurry up and fix their problems, someone else will and they will find themselves with a rapidly dwindling customer base. It's already starting to happen.

    21. Re:84 hours?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course they'd have problems with the db - because RoR is pounding it in the ass like I did Matz's mom last night!
      Sure you can write scalable application in RoR, you just first throw away all the stuff that makes Rails useful, and then you rewrite large parts of your logic in C.
      It's just not structured in a way conductive to writing efficient applications. I don't know why, and it may not be apparent on inspection, but surely we've seen enough real life examples to suggest that you're more likely to run into a performance trap starting from RoR that from a lot of other popular web frameworks? I suspect the ORM, though I would hope Twitter ditched that ages ago.

    22. Re:84 hours?!?! by phreakhead · · Score: 1

      Um, I'm pretty sure Myspace was originally written in ColdFusion and then later they switched to ASP.NET. Not PHP.

  5. Taking advantage by Goffee71 · · Score: 0

    Yep, but
    whitter.com
    twerple.com
    and drivel.com
    got a hell of traffic during those hours

    --
    If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
    1. Re:Taking advantage by owlnation · · Score: 1

      aren't "twitter" and "drivel" synonyms. It sure seems that way.

      That twitter is down so much is pure schadenfreude. The most obnoxious, in your face, viral marketers and sock puppeteers on the net. I only wish them continued failure. Hopefully the inane fad will pass soon, and they'll go the way of every other insubstantial, "latest thing" website.

    2. Re:Taking advantage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That twitter is down so much is pure schadenfreude.

      That word... I don't think it means what you think it means. Not unless you feel really guilty about being happy about this. It doesn't sound like you do. I think you grokked the denotation, but missed the connotation.

  6. Does it make that much difference? by Thornburg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Twitter was the worst, with 84 hours downtime, one year is 8765.81277 hours, which means that Twitter was down .958268243% of the time. Not .9 (90%), but .009 (nine tenths of one percent). IOW, it has an uptime of 99.05%. Sure, that's not great compared to 99.95%, but it was down less than 1 in every 100 times you tried to reach it. I'm pretty sure Yahoo! doesn't manage that, and I know Microsoft's download servers don't manage that...

    1. Re:Does it make that much difference? by myVarNamesAreTooLon · · Score: 1

      The thing is, saying "more than 84 hours, almost twice as much as any other site" sounds FAR worse for twitter (and they don't feel as silly writing it) than 99.05%

    2. Re:Does it make that much difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      meh - and the average user has THOUSANDS of tweets they've made successfully in 2008. So if you made 10,000 tweets in 08, that means you saw the failwhale 100 times, or almost once every three days. And that doesn't count the repeated times you TRIED to Tweet, and tried, and tried, but didn't register. 84 hours seems pretty tame compared to what I experienced, unless it was 84h per user.

    3. Re:Does it make that much difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think business hours. 84 hours is two man-weeks for a desk-jockey.

    4. Re:Does it make that much difference? by ProfMobius · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yep, but can you imagine the mental distress of those who can't post this tweet (is this a word ?) about the fact they are waiting at a red light ?

      --
      EULA : By reading the above message, you agree that I now own your soul.
    5. Re:Does it make that much difference? by camperdave · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yep, but can you imagine the mental distress of those who can't post this tweet (is this a word ?) about the fact they are waiting at a red light ?

      What about the mental distress suffered by those of us who are anxiously waiting for tweets regarding the twitter repair status? How are we supposed to cope?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    6. Re:Does it make that much difference? by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Twitter was the worst, with 84 hours downtime, one year is 8765.81277 hours, which means that Twitter was down .958268243% of the time. Not .9 (90%), but .009 (nine tenths of one percent). IOW, it has an uptime of 99.05%. Sure, that's not great compared to 99.95%, but it was down less than 1 in every 100 times you tried to reach it. I'm pretty sure Yahoo! doesn't manage that, and I know Microsoft's download servers don't manage that...

      Good numerical point, but Yahoo hasn't failed to load for me any time in the last 10 years, with something like 10-50 page views per day. Their uptime is thus no worse than based 0.99997 on my experience, which is means 300x less downtime than twitter.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    7. Re:Does it make that much difference? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      If you drop to 98% availability...Jesus. It sounds good in a non-internet context, but the standard is 3 9's (99.9% uptime) at least. We're not talking 4 9's (99.99%, what you'd expect from your bank) here. We're talking about a site that's pushing 1 9. ONE. 98%!!!

      If they were your webhost, they'd be fired. It's just not an acceptable performance number for a big modern site.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    8. Re:Does it make that much difference? by ari_j · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Frankly, I don't know how they did their measurements but Myspace gives me "an unexpected error occurred" often enough (and I only sign in when I get an e-mail notification of a new message or the like, to begin with) that it very much is expected.

    9. Re:Does it make that much difference? by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      Unless the site is more likely to go down during busy times, which would mean that the 1% of downtime it does have would be when a greater percentage (maybe 10%?) are trying to reach it. That would turn 99% uptime into an effective 90% - 95% uptime for their users, which is considerably worse. Having 99% uptime is great, but if the downtime comes when you're the #1 link on digg or slashdot, that means you lose a hell of a lot more traffic than you would have otherwise.

    10. Re:Does it make that much difference? by ProfMobius · · Score: 1
      Exactly ! It is like having an internet problem, and not being to use internet to find a solution on how to fix the internet. Frustating !

      But like some people suggested, create a Facebook group on the down status of Twitter, should solve your problem.

      --
      EULA : By reading the above message, you agree that I now own your soul.
    11. Re:Does it make that much difference? by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Depends on what time of day it was. If you had your 84 hours at some time where it was only daylight over the middle of the Pacific Ocean, you're probably okay.

      If you had all 84 of your hours during peak times, and event-driven times (major sports and news events), you just lost a lot of data. More importantly, you pissed off more people for being down 5 minutes than you did by being down for an hour at 4AM.

      Given that Twitter has issues that are well known due to capacity, my guess is that their downtime is at the wrong time for them to be having it.

      It begs the question, however, just how many servers to you have to have to handle that sort of traffic. There are midsized MMORPGs out there that pass more traffic per hour. Perhaps it is time for a dedicated redesign of their protocol.

    12. Re:Does it make that much difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      those who can't post this tweet

      Those who post tweets, would be... Twits.

    13. Re:Does it make that much difference? by Walczyk · · Score: 1

      I don't know how you messed up the math when you made that post: when i read the op it didn't look right so i did 100-3.5/365 and the uptime for twitter was 99.990%, similarly for xanga and imeem their uptime (100-1/(6*365)) was 99.999% (nerd fact: i then tried it in units of hours not days and if you round the 4th significant digit 100% is more accurate than 99.999%).

    14. Re:Does it make that much difference? by Walczyk · · Score: 1

      oh god terrible mistke 100- instead of 1- ; trash thissss

  7. and here I am... by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

    And here I am worrying about whether I should see my doctor after 4 hours of uptime.

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  8. We want Stephen Fry by Caue · · Score: 1
    Even if they had a 50-50 ratio, you still wouldn't miss out much.

    Unless you want to know if Stephen Fry is baking a cake or having a tea with his friends

  9. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by zoomshorts · · Score: 0, Troll

    WHO CARES? I mean really. A total waste of electrons, always has been, always will be.
    Not News, much less News for Nerds. More like news for TURDS. See how it rhymes?

    1. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Your post, however, was a great contribution to society and will be studied for years by future generations.

      .....just not for the reasons you'd like.

    2. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by D+Ninja · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, I don't care so much about the downtime.

      However, your post shows extreme shortsightedness to what the people of this world are interested in. Yeah, Facebook, Twitter and the like *can* be extreme wastes of time. But, there is a reason that so many people are drawn to those sites. As engineers and "nerds," it would be interesting to not only know why (psychology playing a huge role in this), but what can be done to leverage technologies like these to actually provide something "worthwhile." (I put worthwhile in quotes as the worth of something is very relative.)

      What may or may not be important to you is not what the populace as a whole agrees with. You're definitely entitled to your own opinion (and I will agree with you to some extent), but given the number of users of these sites, it's important to consider the bigger picture and implications.

    3. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by owlnation · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, Facebook, Twitter and the like *can* be extreme wastes of time. But, there is a reason that so many people are drawn to those sites.

      I think there is some truth in that, but the reason why most people use these sites is peer pressure, purely and simply. It's just a fad for most people. It's just like a local bar or club becomes the in place to go to -- without any substance. Being the reason why there's a drift from MySpace to Facebook to Twitter to the next thing.

      Personally I can see absolutely no use for Facebook nor Twitter whatsoever. But now that the sparkly teenage girls have left MySpace for the next thing, MySpace is actually a useful site. If you are an artist of some sort, MySpace is a great tool for networking and showcasing your work. Facebook is worthless for that, since you have to become friends with someone to see their profile.

      It could be that there are genuine core uses for Facebook and Twitter too -- though I cannot personally think of what they could be.

    4. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      You mean it's a fad like pretty much everything the human race has used for entertainment since the dawn of time? Or perhaps you're foolish enough to believe something like, say, Slashdot has some higher, more meaningful purpose.

      Dismissing it as peer pressure makes about as much sense as abstinence education for teens. It simplifies a very complex phenomenon to the point of uselessness.

    5. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by vlm · · Score: 1

      It could be that there are genuine core uses for ... Twitter ... though I cannot personally think of what they could be.

      It's baby IRC for text-tards.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "What may or may not be important to you is not what the populace as a whole agrees with. You're definitely entitled to your own opinion (and I will agree with you to some extent), but given the number of users of these sites, it's important to consider the bigger picture and implications."

      You mean that the world is populated by even higher numbers of idiots than we ever imagined?

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    7. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by yashachan · · Score: 1

      If you are an artist of some sort, MySpace is a great tool for networking and showcasing your work.

      MySpace? Good for showcasing your (art)work? How about a site that's actually meant for that, like, oh... Storm-Artists, sheezyArt, ConceptArt, deviantART, etc?

      MySpace might have better networking, but I think even sheezyArt can do better at showcasing artwork. Though, if you can show me a MySpace profile that can showcase work decently, I'll revise my opinion to exclude that profile.

    8. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Used through SMS twitter is becomes a very valuable mass communication tool. One easy example is mass political mobilization - twitter was used very successfully during the RNC protests to keep the demonstrators informed about all the latest developments on the streets

    9. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1
      sheezyArt?!?

      Granted, DevArt has gone way downhill (and it wasn't that high uphill to begin with), but let's be brutally honest - it's not often that Encyclopedia Dramatica gets it right without having to resort to exaggeration or hyperbole, but their article on SheezyArt is scarily accurate.

      It was built as a shameless ripoff of DevArt - numerous people diff'ed the HTML and CSS and found huge swathes blatantly stolen. Even now, it still is largely a carbon copy of DA.

      It was built by furries who were pissed that DA started removing hardcore furry porn (I shivered at that phrase). Now it's a fairly even mix between "badly drawn anime doodles" and said furry porn.

      Ye gods, there are few things that should be "nuked from orbit", but sheezyArt is one of them.

    10. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by yashachan · · Score: 1

      Which quite nicely illustrates my point about how unsuited I believe MySpace is for the display of art.

      Ironically, one of sheezyArt's original admins/coders has to be at least half decent, because a respectable community has since picked him up - a (not art-oriented) community started by former dA admins (some of whom were admins at the time of the first exodus of sheezyArt users, if I remember correctly).

    11. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by theredshoes · · Score: 1

      I actually use all of these sites. My Space is good to showcase your work if you are an artist or musician, I agree. I initially used it because everyone was on there, nowadays I just use My Space to put up pics of what I am watching, reading, thinking about. I probably should just replace it with a blog.

      Twitter is good for news feeds, I get all of my news on there in one condensed area, I can read my college newspaper as an alumni, NPR, LOLcats, CNN, even Slashdot, I actually just set it up to try out this site.

      Facebook is for all of my college and high school friends because everyone migrated to that site now, and they don't use My Space anymore. It doesn't have much value except that everyone is on there, that's all.

      I mean a lot of the people on here do the same thing it is just all gaming most likely. You would probably spend more time gaming than seeing what your friends are up to online. Just an observation.

      I also agree these sites waste too much time! I wish there was a site, where I could have all of these things in one, news feeds, status updates, instant messaging, blogging, showcasing art and music where everyone I know is online, plus games I like. It would make everything a lot easier and more condensed. It would the Walmart of websites, LOL

    12. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by gaspyy · · Score: 1

      MySpace is a great tool for networking and showcasing your work

      Great? How?

      If you really want to see a site geared towards artists, have a look at DeviantArt.

    13. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Maybe parent was referring primarily to "artists" in the musical sense.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    14. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Maybe not so much for painters/sketchers, but for other artists?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    15. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by yashachan · · Score: 1

      Ah, quite possible. I forgot that MySpace has special profiles for musicians.

    16. Re:Twitter, Facebook, MySpace by Joe+Sick · · Score: 1

      "what the people of this world are interested in" = Themselves

  10. I clicked.. by jadin · · Score: 1

    I clicked the story expecting to see users waste more hours on twitter than other social networks. That would've been more interesting. The story above is... just plain boring.

  11. I tried to figure out how much money I lost by kkrajewski · · Score: 1

    as a result, but apparently you can't divide by zero.

  12. 'Get a life' as a positive suggestion by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 1

    I've made a number of technological choices accommodating downtime precisely as a motivator to get out and do something real.

    Much as I'd love the always-connected nature of an iPhone, I settle for the iPod Touch precisely because it's not always connected - if I can't get WiFi service, that's a good thing. Blogging is fine, but the rapid update demands of Facebook are more than is worth spending my limited lifespan on. I'm increasingly disliking digital videography, preferring to live the moment than get wrapped up in trying to record it (only to most likely not "relive it" later). Twitter is down? good - go talk to someone in person.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:'Get a life' as a positive suggestion by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the rapid update demands of Facebook are more than is worth spending my limited lifespan on

      Demands? Facebook requires you to update? You must be using a different site than the one I know.

    2. Re:'Get a life' as a positive suggestion by clone53421 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No kidding. I've always been frustrated with people who claim they're "deleting my account because of the amount of time I waste on here". Hello? Just stop spending so much time on it...

      The only reason I can think of to delete your account would be if you actually wanted to mass-delete every note and posted item you'd posted, every post on your wall, and every tag that you'd ever been given. Otherwise, just disappear for a week or three. Your "friends" will forgive you, and the real ones might even call or e-mail if they're really that concerned about you falling off the face of the earth.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    3. Re:'Get a life' as a positive suggestion by jargoone · · Score: 1

      Good for you that it works for a motivator. The rest of us just exercise self-control.

    4. Re:'Get a life' as a positive suggestion by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I very much agree! I've wasted large amounts of time on several sites *cough*Slashdot*uncough* but when I have a lot of work (on workdays) or want to spend more time with my GF (on weekends), I have no problem walking away from Slashdot/Facebook/Twitter/etc until I run out of RL stuff to keep me busy.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    5. Re:'Get a life' as a positive suggestion by Keen+Anthony · · Score: 1

      I don't know about Facebook. My experience with it had me feeling very isolated. Unlike myspace. Myspace got pretty demanding between the friends' blogs, bulletins, reciprocating the love they show you in your profile comments with a corresponding photo of goatse on their profile. I deleted my account, but admittedly, I was just finding it more tiresome in general.

  13. Twitter doesn't work by design by itsme1234 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think many of us recognize the potential power of twitter-like thingies. With this in mind I recently joined. It is beyond disappointing.

    - the site itself is barren, with basically no features - it is just like a '98 site in a bad way (not in a "Google-like" minimalist way)
    - can't get updates by SMS in Europe. OK, fair game, it isn't free. But you should be able to at least post by SMS, right? Somehow although they do offer local numbers (very nice) I wasn't able to actually verify any phone so can't update by SMS
    - they had updates by Instant Messenger as official feature for a while but couldn't make it work (why?! at least it should be practically free for them unlike SMS)
    - there are some 3rd party solutions to update by IM but none work (plus you have to trust the 3rd party)
    - same as above for updates by email

    So, yes, nice idea but poor execution.

    1. Re:Twitter doesn't work by design by dandv · · Score: 2, Informative

      - there are some 3rd party solutions to update by IM but none work (plus you have to trust the 3rd party)

      The Pidgin Twitter plugin works.

    2. Re:Twitter doesn't work by design by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      I update it via identi.ca which I update via im. twitter is where most people are at that I communicate with so that is where my posts end up - but I don't ever go to the twitter site. It doesn't need to be more than it is.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    3. Re:Twitter doesn't work by design by yashachan · · Score: 1

      - they had updates by Instant Messenger as official feature for a while but couldn't make it work (why?! at least it should be practically free for them unlike SMS)
      - there are some 3rd party solutions to update by IM but none work (plus you have to trust the 3rd party)

      One of my friends uses Digsby to update his Twitter.

    4. Re:Twitter doesn't work by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      XMPP is the optimal solution (I, too, don't get why they couldn't figure out how to fix it).

      BUT, the official API is pretty damn spiffy, and there are a million third party programs (not services) that use it. I use Qwit, personally, which sits tidily in my taskbar until notifactions come in, or I click it to post or browse. I also hear good things about TwitterFox (which works as an extension to FireFox).

  14. Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performance by dandv · · Score: 5, Interesting
    In an interview with RadicalBehavior.com, Twitter lead developer Alex Payne commented:

    By various metrics Twitter is the biggest Rails site on the net right now. Running on Rails has forced us to deal with scaling issues - issues that any growing site eventually contends with - far sooner than I think we would on another framework. [...] At this point in time there's no facility in Rails to talk to more than one database at a time. [...] All the convenience methods and syntactical sugar that makes Rails such a pleasure for coders ends up being absolutely punishing, performance-wise. Once you hit a certain threshold of traffic, either you need to strip out all the costly neat stuff that Rails does for you (RJS, ActiveRecord, ActiveSupport, etc.) or move the slow parts of your application out of Rails, or both. It's also worth mentioning that there shouldn't be doubt in anybody's mind at this point that Ruby itself is slow. [...] I think it's worth being frank that this isn't one of those relativistic language issues. Ruby is slow.

  15. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Twitter takes no effort to make scale and keep up. There's NOTHING complex about it.

  16. What do you expect exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    High availability is expensive to attain. How much do you expect them to be investing to perfect this free service for you?

    1. Re:What do you expect exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I don't remember paying for Xanga, Myspace, or Facebook. (As I've never used imeem or Classmates.com, I can't comment on those.)

    2. Re:What do you expect exactly? by Joe+Sick · · Score: 1

      Nothing really, if they don't want eventually make any money.

  17. APIs by tmarthal · · Score: 1

    How do you break this down? Are they just pinging twitter.com and waiting for timeouts on html returned?

    I ask, because lots of twitter is their distribution via their APIs. How many of those other moblog sites have http GETs to non-html documents? Check for yourself: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/

    I wonder how many statuses were updated from facebook.com or pulled there from a twitter API poll. It would be nice if a site like facebook could post their timeouts on their user status polls they do from their site. That might give people more of an idea of the complete twitter uptime.

    1. Re:APIs by tmarthal · · Score: 1

      God that made no sense. s/html/packets

      "Are they just pinging twitter.com and waiting for packets over its default port returned?"

  18. really? by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    Imeem sucks! It's like myspace but with worse code if you could imagine that. I would have expected them to be the lowest. If you actually count the amount of time some of their features didn't work, it's about 50% uptime.

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
  19. Re:First! by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    Parent was, indeed, the first person to post "First!" — for what that's worth.

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  20. My latest Tweet by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm now posting on /. about Twitter.
    I live such a full life.

  21. Based on what amounts of traffic? by Xunker · · Score: 1

    This is not all that meaningful unless you also completely correlate the uptime info with the number of users/requests/whatnot the site does.

    The report doesn't explore that sufficiently enough for me. I can make an app that has 100% uptime if it has one request an hour. Downtime is largely caused (directly or indirectly) by load, so in most cases downtime usually increases as user load (defined as user interaction and amounts of user data, and the actions of those users on that data) increases.

    Painting with a broad brush you could say, yes, Xanga has the best uptime but they also probably have the lowest user load as well whereas twitter probably has one of the highest (current) user loads and thus lowest downtime.

    --
    Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
  22. Possible explanation by should_be_linear · · Score: 1

    Maybe there is, somewhere in the world, guy who pays lots of $$$ to ISPs to 404 Twitter site as often as possible. If this is the case, that guy is really rich and his brain works in similar way as mine.

    --
    839*929
    1. Re:Possible explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, except possibly that his brain figured out a way to make him really rich.

  23. mod parent down (wrong) by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 2, Informative

    schadenfreude - taking delight in others' misfortune. Guilt doesn't enter into it, AC.

    --
    You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
    1. Re:mod parent down (wrong) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations. You too grok the denotation. However, it's typically used to describe inappropriate joy - Smirking when you find out that your ass-hole boss's kid dies. owlnation seems to be excited about twitter's misfortune with no remorse or sense that his delight is inappropriate. He's still taking delight in others' misfortune, but it's not schadenfreude according to common use.

    2. Re:mod parent down (wrong) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, it's typically used to describe inappropriate joy -

      No, it's just you. That connotation may be there when you use the word, but really, that genuinely isn't how most people use it. Nor is there any particular reason why they should use it that way.

    3. Re:mod parent down (wrong) by fermion · · Score: 1
      The educational video on the subject

      the person in the utility belt is supposed to be Gary Coleman.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  24. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I mean wtf? This has been dubunked so many times.
    After this announcement someone wrote a plugin for rails that handled multiple databases.
    And you know, we had this huge ruby on rails application that never really took off. I would had really loved to have those performance issues they were describing.

  25. What is the uptime metric? by 222 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I no longer use Myspace (Thank god!) but it seemed like every time I tried to do something, I was redirected to an error page assuring me that their support staff would be notified...

    Sure, Myspace was able to display html in my browser, but it seems a bit far fetched to consider that "uptime".

  26. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Running on Rails has forced us to deal with scaling issues - issues that any growing site eventually contends with - far sooner than I think we would on another framework.

    That is probably true. However, I would count that as an advantage -- better to deal with them sooner than later.

    At this point in time there's no facility in Rails to talk to more than one database at a time.

    There are many, many ways to talk to more than one database in Rails. In fact, it is possible to swap out the entire database layer of Rails and use another ORM, or no ORM at all. On the bleeding edge -- and Twitter might actually be a good candidate for this -- people have wired up Rails to CouchDB, which provides trivially scalable multimaster replication, and which, being HTTP, can be thrown behind any old load balancer -- which brings this back to a "just throw hardware at it" problem.

    All the convenience methods and syntactical sugar that makes Rails such a pleasure for coders ends up being absolutely punishing, performance-wise.

    Some of them do -- a good example would be Symbol.to_proc.

    However, Merb proves that this is not actually a Ruby problem, it is a Rails problem. And Rails and Merb are merging some point in the near future.

    It's also worth mentioning that there shouldn't be doubt in anybody's mind at this point that Ruby itself is slow. [...] I think it's worth being frank that this isn't one of those relativistic language issues. Ruby is slow.

    Somewhat true -- after all, Ruby 1.9.1 did double the performance of the language.

    But, relative to what?

    Turns out that, at least compared to other languages and frameworks (like PHP), Ruby is not slow.

    It's also worth mentioning that while all of the Twitter alternatives may have enjoyed better uptime, they haven't had nearly the amount of traffic that Twitter does. We don't really know if they can scale -- but even supposing they can, Twitter was there first. And while they complain about those nice features being slow, they probably owe their success to those features for getting their product out the door faster than their competitors.

    It's also worth mentioning that this interview is almost two years old. Rails changes a lot in two years. In fact, Twitter were early adopters -- two years before that interview, Rails had only just shared commit rights. Two years before that, it didn't exist at all.

    It might be worth asking what version of Rails Twitter is using, and if they've noticed a change since then.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  27. Does it really count? by Phoenixhawk · · Score: 1

    Facebook and MySpace both have hours and hours of being simply unusable. You its just server maintenance, sometimes they even say as much. You can technically log into them but it turns into a brick from there. Can that honestly be called 99.5% Uptime?

    1. Re:Does it really count? by Phoenixhawk · · Score: 1

      Facebook and MySpace both have hours and hours of being simply unusable. You its just server maintenance, sometimes they even say as much. You can technically log into them but it turns into a brick from there. Can that honestly be called 99.5% Uptime?

      Damn, I need learn to read before hitting the second posting button.

  28. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by stoolpigeon · · Score: 3, Funny

    does this mean metalhed77 wants to punch Alex Payne in the face?

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
  29. Zomg stop with the twitter stories by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Twitter is on par with Brangelina type stories. Find something more newsworthy to fill dead space with(!!) This is so frustrating.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  30. This is nonsense. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Twitter people have stated publicly that their technical problems are NOT due to Rails. You folks can claim that it is all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.

    The problem isn't people obsessed with Rails... the problem here is people who just don't like it, for whatever reasons of their own. Well, your reasons *ARE* your own. Please keep them to yourselves unless you can start coming up with facts rather than unfounded insults.

    Quote from Twitter representative: "I strongly believe that the best tool for the job is the best tool for the job. Rails is the best web application framework around for rapid prototyping and, as aforementioned, building CRUD-style applications. I would choose Rails again for such a project."

    Twitter stated that they simply did not plan ahead for the popularity of their service. Period. That is not the fault of the platform they use.

    1. Re:This is nonsense. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, since we agree that the Twitter people are incompetent, why should their opinion matter? Maybe their love of Rails is the root of the whole problem, and they're just to wedded to the environment to see it.

      I personally think it is part of the problem. Development/deployment frameworks add a non-trivial amount of overhead, which is something that cannot be spared on a high volume applications.

      Aside from all that, I just love tormenting Ruby fanatics. They're as defensive and strident as any C geek, though, unlike the C geeks, Ruby/Rails people can't point to any performance increases to justify their fanaticism.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:This is nonsense. by blueZ3 · · Score: 4, Funny

      CRUD-style applications

      I think that says it all, right there.

      --
      Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
    3. Re:This is nonsense. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Your being an anti-Ruby fanatic does not make someone who speaks reason a fanatic. Go look in a mirror.

    4. Re:This is nonsense. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I am an anti-fanatic. I use the best tools for whatever job I may be doing. I program in Java, Perl, Php, Python, C++, C#, and, when I must, Cobol. I make fun of everyone who claims that their tool is the best tool in every situation.

      I'll tell you exactly what Twitter's problem is: Ruby is a shitty database interface. That's it. So is PHP, so is Perl, so is VB.Net. I don't even like Java and C# for that stuff, though they're a whole lot better. Python is, but you can write a C lib to do it for Python, so it isn't (though I still wouldn't use Django). For this volume of data you need something lean and close to the hardware.

      They need a better caching system, period. If they're going to try and do the whole thing in Ruby, more power to 'em. But they damn well shouldn't be surprised when obvious crap like this rears up later.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    5. Re:This is nonsense. by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      Aside from all that, I just love tormenting Ruby fanatics. They're as defensive and strident as any C geek, though, unlike the C geeks, Ruby/Rails people can't point to any performance increases to justify their fanaticism.

      I thought that basically their entire argument was that they can (supposedly) increase programmer performance by some huge amount.

    6. Re:This is nonsense. by Alpha830RulZ · · Score: 1

      The Twitter people have stated publicly that their technical problems are NOT due to Rails.

      While I understand that they say this, how are we to believe that they know what the answer is, when they have repeatedly demonstrated a lack of ability to fix the problem? That suggests to me some lack of expertise, which reduces my inclination to believe them.

      --
      I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
  31. My favorite social networking site never down by noidentity · · Score: 3, Funny

    The social non-networking site I use, isolatr.com, is never down, and has never failed to bring me zero annoying "friends". I highly recommend it.

    1. Re:My favorite social networking site never down by Tamran · · Score: 0

      Darn, the sign up thing doesn't seem to work. I keep getting this error:

      http://isolatr.com/error.html

      I'll try in a little while I guess.

  32. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by Foofoobar · · Score: 0

    Actually, compared to PHP, it is slow. Alot of people benchmark PHP incorrectly. Everyone who knows anything about PHP knows it was built to be an Apache module and never to be used as a command line utility because it doesn't have a daemon; it doesn't run in the background like other languages, it starts up and shuts down after running each script.

    This is why if you don't benchmark it as an Apache module (where it IS running as a daemon), it loses a second or two in the benchmark while it starts up its engine. Nuby developers love to quote this stat but are clueless in the fact that what they are quoting is completely wrong. If you were to benchmark the other languages the same way, you would have to shut their daemons off so the startup of their engines are taken into consideration with the benchmark as well.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  33. Twitter's downtime by teknognome · · Score: 5, Funny

    While I don't use twitter, it's downtime is bad enough (or people are obsessed enough) that not only is there IsTwitterDown.com but also IsIsTwitterDownDown.com

  34. Twitter client on iPhone by greyline · · Score: 1

    What are the best Twitter apps for the iPhone? What app do you use and why?

  35. "Hey its Ruby" "works better after getting fixed" by unity100 · · Score: 1

    these were what some people were saying in slashdot back a while ago about twitter, ruby and whatnot.

  36. use the source by Eil · · Score: 1

    Don't like Twitter's downtime? roll your own and do better.

    (But honestly, I still don't see what all the hype about Twitter is. It's just a mashup between instant messaging and RSS from what I can tell, not sure why there needs to be a "service" wrapped around it.)

    1. Re:use the source by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Twitter is RSS with SMS encapsulation. I'm pretty sure there's a way to express that entire concept in 3 letter abbreviations but I'm not going to wast the effort on it.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
  37. Yay fail whale by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the most amusing error messages ever 3 Where the hell did it come from? Why is it flying with birds? What the fuck is this shit? Who knows! It's fail whale!

    1. Re:Yay fail whale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cause, you know, birds carrying a whale is loaded with FAIL.

    2. Re:Yay fail whale by revscat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Birds tweet. They all tweet to each other. And they do so using tin cans and string.

      So they're flying along, happy tweeting on their retro iPhones when all of a sudden this doped up whale jumps in the middle of them, dragging them all to their doom.

      Birds = Twitter
      Whale = system/network load/myth of Rails scalability

      It's a gorgeous bit of iconography.

    3. Re:Yay fail whale by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Myth of rails scalability? Dude, rails allows you to write most of your code without knowing what the fuck the code actually does. Maintainability lol.

    4. Re:Yay fail whale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post would be a lot more "Interesting" if the birds actually had tin cans and string. Instead of, you know, strings attached to a giant net, as opposed to strings going from one bird to another which is how tin can telephones actually work.

      Funny, maybe, but whoever modded you "Interesting" was apparently the one who's doped up.

      Oh, and I'm conservative, and you sound pretty stupid, and I don't support your argument, which more or less invalidates your sig.

  38. Architecture? by bill_kress · · Score: 1

    We know Twitters architectural history, but anyone have a summary of the three big sites with the higher uptime? (Server-side of course). Commonalities would mean a lot I'd think.

    Sorry, I'm old and lazy or else I'd look it up myself.

  39. The Real Tragdey by suggsjc · · Score: 1

    ...are people who died from Twitter Recursive Downtime Syndrome (TRDS). More or less when Twitter goes down, they want to tweet about Twitter being down, when they realized how that makes them feel they want to tweet that, after about the third or fourth round of that, well it isn't pretty.

    --
    When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
  40. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Actually, compared to PHP, it is slow. Alot of people benchmark PHP incorrectly. Everyone who knows anything about PHP knows it was built to be an Apache module and never to be used as a command line utility because it doesn't have a daemon

    Then you might be surprised by the benchmark I actually linked to. This was a measure in requests per second of a full Web application, not of something silly like fibbonacci.

    Nuby developers love to quote this stat but are clueless in the fact that what they are quoting is completely wrong.

    Once again: Look at the actual statistic I'm quoting. Are you suggesting this was CakePHP, run as a web app, benchmarked with a web benchmark, yet somehow run as a commandline app?

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  41. Don't put your eggs in one basket by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    Join multiple sites. So when Twitter goes down, you can gripe on Facebook about it, and when FB goes down, you can tweet away.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  42. Epic winning LOL by Ezel · · Score: 1

    If twitter is used for more of this: http://twitter.com/brokep/status/1218354272 then it will make all our lives better!

    --
    Prosp long and liver.
  43. High write volume.. by msimm · · Score: 1

    plus a little bad luck and architecture trouble would do it. Unless of course you're thinking of Twitter as being a single apache/mysql pair.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  44. 99% isn't good enough by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Sure, that's not great compared to 99.95%, but it was down less than 1 in every 100 times you tried to reach it.

    Ahh, the old "99% is good enough" argument. Occasionally 99% is actually good enough but you have to be VERY careful with that argument. It is extremely easy to come up with examples where 99% is absolutely miserable performance. All you need is a large number of transactions or severe consequences for a failure. The former definitely applies here and possibly the latter too once money gets involved.

    For example if 99% were good enough reliability for air traffic controllers, each year 640,000 flights would be at serious risk during takeoff and landings. Granted, no lives are at risk with Twitter but it illustrates my point that 99% can be terrible performance. Trust me when I say you do NOT want your bank thinking 99% is good enough.

    Downtime of 3.5 days per year is pathetic for a company with serious e-commerce ambitions. There really is no excuse since the technology to ensure high availability is widely available and well understood. If Twitter were some tiny little startup with two guys in a garage doing the programming I might be more forgiving but they aren't anymore. They've gotten millions of dollars in financing and ought to be able to afford some real equipment and talent. If/when they start getting serious money and paying customers involved they had better raise their game.

    1. Re:99% isn't good enough by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The GP was saying that, all conversions be done, 84 hours is not as devastating as it can sound. That's not saying it couldn't, nor that it shouldn't, be improved.

      Mind you, it's a freaking social networking site. How many lives will be seriously inconvenienced (much less endangered) by its downtime?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  45. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Once again: Look at the actual statistic I'm quoting. Are you suggesting this was CakePHP, run as a web app, benchmarked with a web benchmark, yet somehow run as a commandline app?

    I've never used CakePHP before, but every benchmark I find on it suggests that it's horribly slower (10-100x slower, if not more) than stock PHP. For example, over here they get 37.46 requests/s for a hello world CakePHP page on a 3 GHz Intel machine with 512M RAM. I gave a plain PHP hello world page a try on a 1.3 GHz Pentium-M laptop with 512M RAM (a substantially slower machine) with the same ab parameters and I get 1254.75 requests/s. In other words, the substantially slower machine gave 33x better performance with stock PHP than the substantially faster machine gave with CakePHP.

    So yes, maybe RoR has comparable performance to CakePHP, but who cares? CakePHP is painfully slow and I don't know anyone or anything that actually uses it. Wake me up with RoR (or Ruby) is faster than stock PHP.

  46. Completely ignores Facebook "outages" by Calyth · · Score: 1

    Facebook screws around their site live so often that it is not even sensible to assume that their site is running properly if you can point your browser to it.

    In a 4 month stint as a maintenance programmer for one of the apps on there, it has become impossible to tell when I introduced a bug onto the app, or Facebook is actually crapping out.

    I would laugh if once we factor that in, it suffers more outages than Twitter.

  47. Hahaha by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    No, the problem is that your claims contradict what just about everybody who uses Ruby regularly knows. First, Ruby is not "a database interface" at all. However, there are MANY database interfaces that are available for Ruby. Take your pick. Are you trying to say they are ALL bad? Nonsense.

    Ruby interfaces with C libraries as easily as Python. In fact, most "database interfaces" as you put it for Ruby are written in C. As they should be.

    There are also many different caching schemes available to Ruby -- and Rails -- programs.

    See, this crap actually isn't "obvious" at all... it is false. What is glaringly obvious is that you don't know crap about Ruby.

    1. Re:Hahaha by Joe+Sick · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the folks at Twitter "don't know crap about Ruby" either... If they did, they could/would fix this continuing issue, right?

    2. Re:Hahaha by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      You haven't been paying attention. Their problem is NOT with Ruby. Stated by them. Confirmed. They have had database issues, plain and simple. They would have had the same database issues if they had used Perl, or Python, or PHP, or Java. Catch up with yesterday's news, dude.

  48. All the response this comment needs by jalefkowit · · Score: 1
  49. uptime not the same as usability by gravis777 · · Score: 1

    So myspace hardly ever goes down. They still to this day have issues of not having enough resources for the amount of traffic they get (may be part of the reason that most people I know have all but ditched myspace and went to facebook). Look, if there Are so many people on your site every single night that some people get DOS, and those who do get in cannot do anything, while they have the brilliance to take down resources during peak hours to install untested site updates, then what difference does it make if the site is up? It's still unusable.

    Truthfully, I am also surprised to hear xanga is still around. I mean what is the point of a social networking site if none of your friends are on it?

  50. I would have had first post by spartacus_prime · · Score: 1

    But twitter was down.

    --
    If you can read this, it means that I bothered to log in.
  51. Who the fuck cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the fuck cares? Twitter isn't a new social/Internet paradigm, it's not anything more than needy people spewing into the void, hoping that others care enough to listen.

    Guess what? We don't.

  52. How can this be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How vast is their data model?
    create table user;
    create table message;

    done. (don't forget the commit if you're on PostgreSQL!)

    Rails?
    Really?
    Samuel H. Christmas....I'm sure I'm over-simplifying this, but what benefit to they gain from using Rails on such a simple app? There can't be more than 30 unique pages on the entire site!

    Chainsaw to sharpen a pencil
    Shotgun to kill a mosquito
    Rails to implement Twitter
    Choose the correct tool for the job!

  53. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by tcopeland · · Score: 1

    > better to deal with them sooner than later.

    Well said sir. Scaling is not about language opcode execution speed. Apps don't scale by eliminating a few JMPs and BEQs here and there. Instead, they scale by coming up with good _architectures_. Caching, partitioning, sharding, queuing, backgrounding... all that stuff. Given a good enough architect you could probably write EBay in Bash.

  54. Tonight by RuthlessMinx · · Score: 1

    Coincidently, Twitter is going to have some scheduled downtime tonight. I'm already upset about it. My tweeting addiction makes it hard to stop.

  55. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Not that those things are irrelevant, just that initially, they are less important.

    Certainly, it's possible eBay could save a lot of money on hardware by rewriting the site in a faster language (or even in C) if they started in Bash. It's also possible they would start looking at other optimizations -- all those little hacks you avoid during development could suddenly mean thousands of dollars saved.

    But you won't know which hacks are worth thousands of dollars, and which ones will cause thousands of dollars in debugging headaches for no real gain, without profiling. And it's kind of difficult to profile before you have a working site.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  56. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    they get 37.46 requests/s for a hello world CakePHP page on a 3 GHz Intel machine with 512M RAM. I gave a plain PHP hello world page a try on a 1.3 GHz Pentium-M laptop

    How much does either of those have to do with the real world? That's why I linked to a benchmark of a real (though simple) app, that actually reads and writes to a database...

    I mean, I'm sure I can beat your scores with a static page.

    What matters is, when you actually start to build out your application's logic, how much do you have to rewrite yourself that you could have borrowed from something like Cake? Are you sure you're doing it more efficiently than Cake would be?

    By the time you've built your own router, controllers, models, and ORM, you may find your app is slower than a Cake (or Rails) app. That is -- by the time your app is doing more interesting things than "Hello World".

    Wake me up with RoR (or Ruby) is faster than stock PHP.

    Wake up, then, and follow the link I pasted, way up in this thread. If you really don't need a heavyweight MVC architecture, you can use the bare Merb router, or a bare-metal Rack app. Sinatra might even be a good balance.

    Rails vs Cake is a fair comparison, as both are frameworks. Rack against PHP would be much closer.

    Now, your turn. Why should I care about stock PHP? Why would I want to go back to not using a framework? Show me a PHP framework that's as fast as Rails, and I might be interested -- except, of course, Ruby is still a nicer language to work with.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  57. Twitter is down.... by despeaux · · Score: 1

    .... for an hour, right now.

  58. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1

    They have tons to do with the real world. It means that, as a baseline, the machine in that benchmark will never run a CakePHP application faster than ~37 requests/s, which is pretty bloody slow.

    Will a full fledged PHP app be slower than a hello world CakePHP app? Not even close, at least in my experience. For example, Game! runs in excess of 100 requests/s on the very modest hardware I mentioned above, and would likely be well over 300 requests/s on the 3 GHz machine in the benchmark I linked (assuming it's a single core, double that for a dual core), and it is most certainly more than hello world. It is, of course, written in stock PHP, not CakePHP.

    The point of my post is that comparing to CakePHP is a lousy comparison, because a) CakePHP is a pretty minor player in the PHP world, and b) CakePHP is hideously slow. Honestly, I don't know how they managed to make CakePHP so slow, it's not even hard to write fast PHP code.

    Oh, and here's the benchmark I was looking for earlier. Here we see CakePHP more than an order of magnitude slower than CodeIgniter, though IMO they're all too slow to consider. CakePHP in particular serves a dismal 7 requests/s, which (at least to me) isn't even acceptable for a single user.

    The topic of framework vs no framework is another flamewar altogether, which I won't go into here.

  59. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    The point of my post is that comparing to CakePHP is a lousy comparison, because a) CakePHP is a pretty minor player in the PHP world, and b) CakePHP is hideously slow.

    Point b, I could have made about Rails -- and it's still not as slow as you would think.

    Since I can't get people to actually watch the presentation, let me quote from it:

    331 requests per second in a raw PHP app. Static HTML was 1327 rps.

    Cake was barely 8, with acceleration.

    Ruby, with a single mongrel, was 85 rps. With Passenger and Enterprise Ruby, 96 rps. So already, Rails is close enough that, worst case, you would have to run it on two machines instead of one.

    Merb, with templates, was over a thousand rps, looks like over twelve hundred from the graph. I believe this was a different machine than the above, but I don't believe it was four times faster. It is the same machine, though, which is used for the rest of this comment.

    There is also a comparison of static vs just the Merb router -- obviously, static is faster, but not by a huge amount. Then there's the controller versus php's echo -- almost exactly the same. And of course, the template -- already a very MVC-ish design -- is already better, by quite a lot, than CodeIgniter, and not much slower than php's echo.

    Sinatra was almost two thousand rps -- slightly faster than a Merb controller.

    No matter how you look at these benchmarks, the worst you can say is, "Rails is slow", and it's still not that slow. There is no way you can say "Ruby is slow", and there is certainly no way you can say that Merb is slow.

    Oh, and Merb is going to be merged into Rails. Merb 2.0 is Rails 3.0.

    The topic of framework vs no framework is another flamewar altogether, which I won't go into here.

    Fair enough. I think you will agree, though, that it's much fairer to compare frameworks to frameworks, and no-framework to no-framework, than it is to compare a Ruby framework to raw PHP. (Even if the Merb happens to be almost as fast as raw PHP, and sometimes faster.)

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  60. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by tcopeland · · Score: 1

    > all those little hacks you avoid during
    > development could suddenly mean thousands of dollars saved

    Yeah, that's the stuff I'm thinking of. "We won't generate this on the fly, we'll put it in a queue and process the queue every 5 seconds." "We won't immediately write this to all the servers, instead we'll rsync it up in a batch job." I wouldn't even call those "little hacks"... I'd say that those are architecture decisions that you make once you realize you need them. And, as you say, until you need that sort of thing it's a waste of time to code it up... wait until you're sure you have customers, then do all that.

  61. technos with users you can count on your fingers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is amateurism.

    Twitter is supposed to be rewritten (already has?) using a technology that is tested and proven. A technology that is involved, daily, for example, in every single money wire-transfer, in every credit card transaction, in every "e-wallet" (MoneyBookers, PayPal, you-name-it) transfer, etc.

    There are technologies, today, that not only scale and are extremely performant, but that also are bullet-proof when it comes to security.

    One such technology is called Java, and there hasn't been a single buffer overrun in a compliant JVM (the specs simply prevents it).

    The problem is that some people are too shortsighted to realize how big Java is.

    But GMail, FedEx, eBay... And all the banks worldwide heavily use (and save a lot of money thanks to) Java.

    Java haters can keep using their toy technology, whose user base you can count on your fingers, and produce bug-ridden, non-scalable apps that shall need to be rewritten in Java once scalability, reliability and security becomes the name of the game.

    Heck, even Paul Graham's very fine Lisp written Viacom was rewritten in Java.

    Btw Java haters, you probably have Java smartcards in your wallet and you have to accept that you're using Java daily in the Real World [TM], where payments Just Works [TM].

    Get a grip guys, seriously...

  62. Money matters by sjbe · · Score: 1

    84 hours is not as devastating as it can sound.

    If Google was shut down for 3.5 days in 2008 it would have cost them $209 million in revenue. A few more days of that and it might become real money.

    How many lives will be seriously inconvenienced (much less endangered) by its downtime?

    Lives won't but investments will be endangered and that does "seriously inconvenience" people. I present our current economy as Exhibit A. You think Google or Amazon or Yahoo would be the economic powerhouses they are if they were down for half a week per year? Customers wouldn't trust the service, investors would be wary, slashdot would bash them and they would all be right to do so. An internet site can't get revenue when it is shut down. It's a 24/7 business and the guys who run Twitter need to behave like they understand that if they have any aspirations of turning it into a real business.

  63. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

    That benchmark is useless. You are comparing an apple to an orange. We were talking about RUBY not RUBY+RAILS vs PHP+CakePHP(bloat). And CakePHP is known to be one of the slowest frameworks for PHP. A real benchmark would at least compare the same code (Yes, like a Fibonnacci) to test how the LANGUAGE and not the FRAMEWORK benchmarks.

    Come back when you understand how benchmarks work Nuby.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  64. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    We were talking about RUBY not RUBY+RAILS vs PHP+CakePHP(bloat).

    In that case, you might be interested in the examples using the Merb router, which is actually comparable to static content. This was compared to raw PHP, both with echo and with templates.

    A real benchmark would at least compare the same code (Yes, like a Fibonnacci) to test how the LANGUAGE and not the FRAMEWORK benchmarks.

    A Fibonacci is irrelevant -- when was the last time you used a Fibonacci in a commercial app?

    These benchmarks are testing a real app. If that app ends up being written differently in the different languages, I would suggest that this is not necessarily bias, but quite possibly that one language lends itself to cleaner and more efficient code.

    Again: Have you actually looked at those benchmarks? Or are you more interested in calling me names than you are in actual facts?

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  65. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

    Then sadly, you understand little about benchmarks. I could benchmark Microsoft Office against a Hello World app written in Perl too. Does it mean anything? It means the same as the benchmarks you pointed to. Because too much is going on in the backend to know what precisely you are benchmarking. This is WHY benchmarks are done wtih things like the fibonacci sequence... duh.

    Seriously, you'll learn this when you get out of high school.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  66. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    I could benchmark Microsoft Office against a Hello World app written in Perl too.

    Which is why it was Merb Router vs Raw PHP. More like Hello World in Ruby vs Hello World in Perl.

    Except, of course, benchmarking Hello World is as irrelevant as benchmarking fibonacci.

    Because too much is going on in the backend to know what precisely you are benchmarking.

    Except that this is the same stuff that will be going on in the backend in a real app.

    In other words, these are benchmarks of stuff that matter.

    Seriously, you'll learn this when you get out of high school.

    Has it occurred to you that I might know this from practical experience, designing real applications?

    Nah, couldn't be. Obviously, I must be a high school kid, who knows nothing about the subject -- I mean, I disagree with you, isn't that proof enough? I bow to your superior ad-hominem skills.

    Look to your own sig.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  67. Twitter whore says Twitter is down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LisaNova says Twitter is down.

  68. Re:This is nonsense. (Well...) by patniemeyer · · Score: 1

    Twitter stated that they simply did not plan ahead for the popularity of their service. Period. That is not the fault of the platform they use.

    Not knowing the future is pretty much the rule, not the exception. If the framework or the way they employed it can't hold up to unexpected changes then that's a problem. Twitter has been around for a while now. I suspect that they knew they were getting popular. I don't know the true story, but if they are having a lot of down time they are probably doing something wrong.

    Tools are tools. Maybe a rapid prototyping environment doesn't yield the most maintainable or re-purposable code. Or maybe it's fine and they just made bad choices. Or maybe it was just bad luck :)

  69. Re:Twitter Developer Alex Payne on Rails performan by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

    Like I said... you understand very little about benchmarks. Probably even less about development.

    --
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