Microsoft Unveils Windows 7 File-Sharing Beta

nandemoari writes "Microsoft yesterday released a trial version of new file-sharing software intended for use with its upcoming and highly-anticipated operating system. The new software allows PC users to swap files with the computers of friends, family, and trusted colleagues along safe, secure channels. Dubbed 'Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5,' the beta connects the Windows Live IDs of individual users with a Windows 7 account, essentially building a secure link between data stored on a hard drive and information accessible via Windows Live online."

Comments

They omitted something...

[Spazztastic]

They forgot to mention that all file transfers including mp3, wma, wmv, mpeg, etc. files will be logged and sent to the RIAA/MPAA.

Good for family photos, not good for everything.

Re:They omitted something...

[Tokerat]

Oh really? Can you please point out where it says that in the TOS?

Don't get me wrong, I've been with the Apple camp since before I can remember (20+ years) and I hate Microsoft, especially for their business practices; however that's quite a statement to make with nothing to back it up.

Re:They omitted something...

[GPLDAN]

Nail. Head. You got it.

They will archive transfers you make, for years and years. Imagine if they are in litigation, all they do is look up the company officers of the company they are in court with and start reviewing the logs of all the files they have ever transferred.

I bet buried in the EULA is some really obtuse language that says there is no right to privacy for any document sent via the service. PDFs are indexed for keywords, etc.

Re:They omitted something...

[Creepy Crawler]

How abouts something like....

"We reserve the right to change this EULA at any time, without informing you."

Re:They omitted something...

[spikenerd]

...that's quite a statement to make with nothing to back it up.

Good point. Considering Microsoft's long history of consistently putting the user's best interest at the forefront of all their new product releases, we need some pretty strong reasons to *not* trust them implicitly.

Re:They omitted something...

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

They probably will. And that's probably the whole point. But not for the reason you think.

Microsoft is a company in trouble. It's main product, its flagship OS, is not selling a well as it might hope. For the first time in years it is faced with real and credible competition from both Apple and Canonical. It needs to stay competitive and its current liaisons with media companies are not helping it do that.

Culture has changed. File sharing is a fact of life for the majority of PC users. People share their files, not only documents and music, but also video files. Apple and Canonical have responded by giving users better tools and greater freedom with their files. Microsoft has responded by locking its systems down, putting barriers in the way of people trying to us their PCs.

But culture has changed. People want to transfer files between the now multiple machines and accounts in their homes. They want to show other people the files on their drives. Microsoft is waking up to this fact, not because they want to, but because in this day and age and culture, they have to.

Microsoft, desperate to get itself into the living room, has been caving into the media industry for years now. But it's still not in the living room, aside from the Xbox console, which does not need the media industry to get there. How has Microsoft, as a company, made profit by pandering to these outside interests? In ten years of compromises, what benefit has Microsoft seen to the restrictions it has placed in its operating system? As open alternatives replace Microsoft products in this domain (Bitorrent/VLC/Boxee), it's clear that people are voting with their feet, and are choosing players and distribution methods that just do what they want them to do, without telling them that they can't.

The media companies will kick and buck and scream and roar over this. It's an anathema to their world view, where users have only limited, and in some cases temporary, control and access over their files. But Microsoft has probably stopped listening, despite their now large ties to the entertainment industry. Times are getting tough, and with alternatives out there, they cannot afford Windows to be laden down with artificial barriers introduced at the behest of third parties.

Re:They omitted something...

[genner]

Oh really? Can you please point out where it says that in the TOS? Don't get me wrong, I've been with the Apple camp since before I can remember (20+ years) and I hate Microsoft, especially for their business practices; however that's quite a statement to make with nothing to back it up.

You must be new here.....fall in line with the group think newbie.

Re:They omitted something...

[Endo13]

Um... whoosh?

Re:They omitted something...

[furby076]

Microsoft is a company in trouble

I don't think so: Go to the links below and look at the max trends NASDAQ Composite: http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ
MSFT: http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:MSFT
If you notice MS has been following the same pattern as NASDAQ - yes down right now, but that is not because MS is failing it is because there is a tighter crunch in the market. This tighter crunch means companies are spending less, and they will hold onto their old infrastructure as long as possible (banks are notorious for having legacy products). It also means they are not converting to other infrastructure (contrary to popular belief it is not as easy/cheap to switch)

MS has a 159 billion market cap. Total revenue 2008 = 60,420 (million). Total revenue 2007 = 51,122 (million). Their total revenue went up. So did their net income.

No they don't have a failing product (dollar-wise) though what you say seems to fail.

Re:They omitted something...

[nine-times]

But it's still not in the living room, aside from the Xbox console, which does not need the media industry to get there

And with DRM dying (at least for music) there isn't a lot of hope that they'll be able to monopolize the living room. I don't see any particularly good reason for any online stores to choose to distribute in WMA when they can choose MP3 or AAC.

Re:They omitted something...

[zmollusc]

Aw jeez, now i need to get another fuse for my sarcasm-o-meter!

Re:They omitted something...

[Phoenixhawk]

Indeed

Re:They omitted something...

[drsmithy]

Culture has changed. File sharing is a fact of life for the majority of PC users. People share their files, not only documents and music, but also video files. Apple and Canonical have responded by giving users better tools and greater freedom with their files. Microsoft has responded by locking its systems down, putting barriers in the way of people trying to us their PCs.

Er, what ?

Re:They omitted something...

[cgenman]

I believe that grandparent's point is not about stock value, but position in market. They've officially lost the battle for search engines, their phone OS is third best, their last desktop OS couldn't convince people to upgrade, office 2007 is controversial and their lock on text formats is crumbling, and aside from the video game division they've been wholly unable to get any momentum going in new markets.

Personally, I'm looking forward to desktop file sharing and synchronization, as it will mean I can stop running all these FTP servers everywhere. This move seems to imply that they're letting go of the idea of being a media company, and instead focusing on the actual revenue parts of their organization. Good for them.

Re:They omitted something...

[clone53421]

That's why I use RAR files encrypted with strong passwords when I send any attachments of a personal nature over GMail. I don't think this will be much different...

Re:They omitted something...

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear the new ones also support NTFS-3G.

Re:They omitted something...

[PixelSlut]

Good thing I use ogg. Microsoft would never think to look for that.

Re:They omitted something...

[BigCigar]

"But Microsoft has probably stopped listening, despite their now large ties to the entertainment industry."

Guess you missed this post

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257

Re:They omitted something...

[kiddygrinder]

Yah, their "Trouble" is a position that both apple and canonical could only dream of being in. IMHO it will take 10 years or more of them making every wrong decision to put any real dint in their market share, and i don't know why, but a lot of people think windows 7 made a lot less wrong decisions than you think.

Re:They omitted something...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot confirms it, Windows 7 has draconian DRM.

Would kdawson really lie to me?

Re:They omitted something...

[Joce640k]

It'll be like MS Messenger and classify all .mp3 files as "dangerous".

Also "zip", just in case there's any virus-ridden mp3 files inside them.

Re:They omitted something...

[segedunum]

Oh really? Can you please point out where it says that in the TOS?

It doesn't need to be. Microsoft have been actively developing DRM to get into bed with the content companies and they have made statements to the effect that if they don't then they won't be allowed to come and play in their paddling pool. Do you really think they're going to do unrestricted Microsoft Bitorrent(tm)?

It's just another in a long line of copy-cats that is burned into Microsoft's nature. If there is something successful out there then Microsoft makes its own version and uses Windows to have as many bites of the cherry as they like, as sure as eggs is eggs. It doesn't matter that MSN, Hailstorm, Passport or Windows Live or whatever they call it now has been thrown back in their faces more times than you can count. They'll keep going until they succeed or the cash cow monopolies of Windows and Office stop providing the cash to allow them to do it.

Re:They omitted something...

[turing_m]

You could have a point. Why have MS increasingly enabled DRM in their operating systems? My guess is that they are hoping for a cut of all digital movie and music sales.

To go back on that after so much investment is a big about face. However, most of this investment was done prior to releasing Vista, so an about face is possible.

At what point do Microsoft halt their delusions of grandeur and start battening down the hatches? If it is now as you contend, then this move makes sense. Network effect and rampant piracy of games and applications was certainly a help for Windows to become entrenched. Even its own applications and operating system. This is still a factor - the operating system that allows the most capability and content for the least amount of dollars and work will gain or retain users.

However, knowing Microsoft I would expect there to be a hook there in that bait. Maybe when this service reaches market saturation, Microsoft will start integrating DRM "as a result of media industry pressure".

Re:They omitted something...

[maztuhblastah]

You may be a bit ahead of the times in your prediction, but I believe you're close. But that's not what I wanted to comment on. I wanted to comment on this:

For the first time in years it is faced with real and credible competition from both Apple and Canonical.

I very much disagree with this. Microsoft isn't faced with competition from Canonical. They're faced with competition from Linux; Canonical may be a "symptom" of this, but they're not the real competition. Right now, Canonical's got (arguably) the best, most usable UI for new users, thus they have some of the largest user base. If Canonical gets destroyed by Microsoft and Ubuntu ceases to exist, there will be a huge development influx into other distros, probably concentrating on either Fedora or one of the many Ubuntu spin-offs. The problem that MS is facing is that desktop Linux is somewhat of a hydra. They've managed against it thus far is really just because (continuing the metaphor) it took a while to grow. The nature of open sources licenses mean that it will be incredibly easy for "modern desktop Linux" to survive the death of their current front-runner.

Now I don't think Microsoft's death is imminent. They've got enough cash reserves and enough fingers in enough pies that they won't die anytime soon. But they are facing a serious threat, one that thus far they've been powerless to stop the growth of. Apple can be destroyed. Apple is kept at bay by Microsoft quite easily: until iWork is a drop-in replacement, Microsoft holds the upper hand in their relationship. (This is, I suspect, why Apple has been putting a substantial amount of development resources into the creation of a functional equivalent to Microsoft Office. As long as a majority of their consumer user-base depends on a Microsoft product, Apple can't afford to compete too directly with Microsoft.) Linux has no such Achilles' heel. The best Microsoft has against Linux is "trusted computing", but (thus far) manufacturers have essentially said "why bother" to Microsoft's pushes for it. Without widespread hardware lock-in, and without a clear financial target, Linux won't be easy for Microsoft to kill.

Re:They omitted something...

[jonaskoelker]

Personally, I'm looking forward to desktop file sharing and synchronization, as it will mean I can stop running all these FTP servers everywhere.

I'm sure they've released an RFC on it with an independent implementation for Linux. Right?

Oh. Count me out then...

Re:They omitted something...

[davester666]

What to you mean?

Microsoft just launched a new music service for cell phones, with DRM that ties the music to that specific phone.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/01/microsoft-misses-memo-launches-drm-laden-mobile-music-store.ars

With most innovative pricing: ...offers songs for $2.07 (£1.50), ringtones for $4.05 (£3), and videos for $2.77 (£2). These prices include a fairly steep premium over the standard 99 charged for most MP3s, though MSN Mobile Music is compatible with over 130 handsets

I guess there are a lot of handsets out there that ONLY support Microsoft DRM'ed media files and not even MP3 files...

And I love this quote from the head of Microsoft's UK Mobile division:
"We'll be looking to enhance the service if we get some interest from consumers."

and from the service's web site (quoted from the article, as the web site isn't accessible outside the UK):
"When you purchase the music, you get unlimited plays for the content whilst it remains on the device."

So, for the privilege of paying double the going rate for music, you can ONLY listen to it on the phone you purchased it on. Change your phone, buy everything again.

Re:They omitted something...

[Risen888]

Undoing an accidental mod by commenting. Nothing to see here, move along.

Re:They omitted something...

[noidentity]

They forgot to mention that all file transfers including mp3, wma, wmv, mpeg, etc. files will be logged and sent to the RIAA/MPAA.

Good for family photos, not good for everything.

Don't worry, those also get logged and sent to other three-letter agencies.

Re:They omitted something...

[Hurricane78]

You have an argument. A straw-man argument.

That logging not being in the TOS, but happening anyway, is the very point of the GP post.

Or, in other "words": WHOOOOSH!

Re:They omitted something...

[beav007]

Oh really? Can you please point out where it says that in the TOS?

TOS? Are you kidding? We don't even read TFS...

Re:They omitted something...

[gzipped_tar]

Why do you trust the closed RAR format for that? Checkout PGP encryption.

Re:They omitted something...

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe that grandparent's point is not about stock value, but position in market. They've officially lost the battle for search engines, their phone OS is third best, their last desktop OS couldn't convince people to upgrade, office 2007 is controversial and their lock on text formats is crumbling, and aside from the video game division they've been wholly unable to get any momentum going in new markets...

Been there, seen this prediction.

They were doomed when the Mac came out (if you weren't there, you would not believe what a piece of junk Windows 1 was) They were doomed when multitasking came out, when the internet got popular, when the web came along. Maybe Open Source will finally kill them, but I wouldn't count on it.

Oh, and IBM was doomed when Microsoft stole their piece of the personal computer revolution.

My advice is don't sell them short.

Re:They omitted something...

[Jurily]

It'll be like MS Messenger and classify all .mp3 files as "dangerous".

I even had trouble sending .txt's. Now I'm sticking to Kopete, thank you very much.

Re:They omitted something...

[Sinbios]

You could have a point. Why have MS increasingly enabled DRM in their operating systems? My guess is that they are hoping for a cut of all digital movie and music sales.

Oh I don't know, maybe because DRM usage by content providers is getting more popular than when XP was the flagship OS? And Microsoft is increasing support for it when the usage increases?

And how would MS get a cut of all digital movie and music sales by providing support for accessing the contents of those sales?

Re:They omitted something...

[suckmysav]

"Personally, I'm looking forward to desktop file sharing and synchronization, as it will mean I can stop running all these FTP servers everywhere."

Uh, FTP servers? For desktop syncing? Have you not heard of rsync?

The mind boggles.

Re:They omitted something...

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

The fact that you think Apple is less Big Brother than Microsoft, is disturbing.

Apple is the grand daddy of "do what we say, and how we say to do it" mentality.

Especially in recent years.

As for microsoft. They're irrelevant and trying to find their way back into peoples life. Windows Live ID, Password, MSN accounts, Hotmail... YUCK. Microsoft will never succeed by trying to blanket everyone into their silly schemes until they can give what the people want... complete privacy and trust that Microsoft isnt watching them. Until that happens, most people wont be eager to join ANY microsoft online service.

What really is scary is that Microsoft's tools (services) are all aimed at the fucktard average user who is not serious at all about computing. In other words, NONE of microsofts solutions including windows media player, graphic viewer, graphic organizer, and any of their online services, are of use to professionals. Microsoft caters to retards and provides half assed solutions for serious computer problems.

This is where Apple succeeds. However Apple is very much Big Brother, as Microsoft, so i cant say i like the hypocrisy of the "Think Different" company. It really should be "Think What we Want you to Think"

Its too bad about linux too. Its too complex for the average person, and has nothing the average person really wants (certainly not enough to put up with the hassle of relearning a new os).

Neither big companies have the peoples interest in mind at all. That is the problem in computers these days. It really used to be a bunch of dirty nerds who dreamed of a better tomorrow through the use of technology.... That mentality is still out there but, its not coming from the top.

Re:They omitted something...

[Anonymous Coward]

will it play for sure?

Re:They omitted something...

[StuartHankins]

The RAR format is open, you can find the decode spec at the RarLabs site. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAR .

Re:They omitted something...

[Anonymous Coward]

yes yes, woosh etc, but what if the riaa discover that I'm sharing my mp3 with my sister? did they really think I could be indicted by any judge for this? good luck with that!

Re:They omitted something...

[Iyonesco]

The 3 day charts you linked contain too small a sample to prove anything and you need to look at a longer term chart such as this six year chart to see the true picture. When the NASDAQ was up 100% in 2007 Micrsoft was unchanged and while the NASDAQ is currently even on its 2003 value Microsoft is off nearly 40%. Microsoft is failing and investors know it.

Re:They omitted something...

[Anonymous Coward]

How about using something like Dropbox? It even keeps track of revisions...lets you share folders... Free for first 2gb getdropbox.com

Re:They omitted something...

[dexex]

yeah, but it's "unlimited"...

Re:They omitted something...

[jonadab]

That's why I use uuencoded .tar.bz2 files. HTH.HAND.

Re:They omitted something...

[YourExperiment]

Oh great, that sounds like a really useful invention.

Yeehaw

[XcepticZP]

Go Microsoft!!

Re:Yeehaw

[Anonymous Coward]

Good old MS always working for the government. When will you learn Microsoft people don't like narks of any kind. Especially ones built into your computer.

Irony?

[jetsci]

Now I can conveniently share my Windows_Release_BT.iso! Thank you Microsoft.

Re:Irony?

[AliasMarlowe]

Now I can conveniently share my Windows_Release_BT.iso! Thank you Microsoft.

Now that thought might even motivate them to make it work with Linux...

Re:Irony?

[StikyPad]

True, but since it's a Windows 7 feature, you can only share with people who already have it..

Re:Irony?

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose you could share a VMWare image of Windows 7 which is then remotely mounted with an active share of another copy of the Windows 7 image, which in turn is mounted on the initial OS and shares another instance of it.. so on. Call it the vortex of fail.

Re:Irony?

[jetsci]

...down-right brilliant. Not sure I understand the application but it sure was confusing, therefore, brilliant...

Waiting for the penny to drop....

[zappepcs]

What DRM is built into this that prevents people from sharing copyrighted works with their friends, family, and trusted associates? Something tells me that this will reek of DRM excrement from the first double click.

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm...Are you "waiting for the other shoe to drop" or are you waiting for someone to "drop a dime" on MS DRM?

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[elrous0]

If you attempt to share a copyrighted file, a group of armed men kick down your door, take you away, and leave a note behind in your handwriting saying "I'm on vacation. Don't look for me." Pretty heavy-handed, but at least the software is free.

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[Anonymous Coward]

you think that's bad? try fixing your air conditioner without the proper paperwork!

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[Anonymous Coward]

SQUAWK! SQUAWK! DRM! SQUAWK!

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[Anonymous Coward]

Tuttle, is that you? Heheheheh!

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[clone53421]

I use password-encrypted RARs when I send anything over GMail that I don't want the Google spooks reading...

...such as EXEs, which it automatically blocks if it detects. I suppose this would work just as well for other file types...

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[Endo13]

Hey man, how's vacation? Send me a postcard?

Oh BTW, your front door was knocked down, so I got a handy-man out to get that fixed. Let me know when you get back!

Re:Waiting for the penny to drop....

[PCM2]

DRM? You're being a little broad with that term, aren't you? Microsoft is just going to conduct periodic sweeps of its entire data store with the assistance of whatever RIAA, MPAA, etc. When it identifies files (by signature) that have been flagged as copyright infringing, Microsoft will issue you a take-down notice while unilaterally deleting the files at the same time.

"Legalistically, you may appeal to the Emperor, but you would get no hearing. The Emperor today is not the Emperor of an Entun dynasty, you know. Trantor, I'm afraid, is in the hands of the aristocratic families, members of which compose the Commission of Public Safety. This is a development which is well predicted by Psychohistory." -- Isaac Asimov, Foundation

Clever, actually

[FireballX301]

All the benefits of ftp without the bandwidth cost of a fileserver. My question is whether there's a way to cap the amount of files that can be requested from you, in order to keep your monthly up limit from being clobbered.

Re:Clever, actually

[capt.Hij]

Actually, I was thinking rsync over ssh. It is not so clear from the article, but if this is the case then it is big. The combination of rsync and ssh is one of the most used tool combinations for me. If it is rsync "like' then that should reduce the bandwidth issues that you (rightfully) raise.

Re:Clever, actually

[ceoyoyo]

How is that? The data doesn't magically jump off your machine and onto someone else's. You could get pretty much exactly the same effect by running an FTP server on your machine and then giving the passwords to some central web site somewhere that freely shares them with "trusted" users.

Re:Clever, actually

[Anonymous Coward]

Monthly up limit?
Are there any ISP's that have something like that(with the exception of UMTS/EDGE)?

Re:Clever, actually

[nine-times]

All the benefits of ftp without the bandwidth cost of a fileserver.

You know you don't particularly need a dedicated file server to use something like FTP, right?

All the problems with running FTP on a home desktop machine are associated with having a dynamic IP rather than static, and otherwise with the fact that FTP kind of sucks as a protocol.

Anyway, I'm not sure all that matters. If this provides new functionality that's helpful for their customers, then good for Microsoft for including those features. File sharing is still a little too painful.

Re:Clever, actually

[clone53421]

What I like is when somebody installs the default LimeWire distro, allows it to share their entire My Document folder, and forgets that anyone in the world can now download My Passwords.doc...

Re:Clever, actually

[jedidiah]

Well, dynamic IP's turn out to not be very dynamic. You can easily
assign a real domain name to a dynamic IP address and perhaps not
even need to change it in a year. You could also use some sort of
dynamic dns service.

Or you could just send out emails with links with ip numbers in them.

If you want to share stuff with a few select people, it's really
not that hard on a "home machine".

Although a lot of stuff is already being shared by people anyways.
There are already easy to use facilities with which to share user
created content.

The notion of some private WAN is a bit overkill and bound to cause problems.

Invite the wrong person to the party and suddenly it gets out of control...

Re:Clever, actually

[Anonymous Coward]

Monthly up limit? Are there any ISP's that have something like that(with the exception of UMTS/EDGE)?

Welcome to the joys of being from Australia/New Zealand/South Africa. Enjoy your stay, and please remember, no-one can hear you scream!

To be fair, not every ISP imposes a limit on uploads (eg, non-naked-iiNet don't, but Telstra do). All impose a limit on downloads.

Re:Clever, actually

[mrbcs]

All the problems with running FTP on a home desktop machine are associated with having a dynamic IP rather than static, and otherwise with the fact that FTP kind of sucks as a protocol.

http://no-ip.com/

That is all.

Re:Clever, actually

[Samah]

I remember when I first gave DC++ a shot, and I let it index most of the 3TB of stuff on my server (shareware and Linux distros, of course... *cough*). Took a long time, and I ended up getting banned from the server because the admins thought I'd somehow hacked the client to report large numbers (for better ratios etc.)

Their loss. :)

Re:Clever, actually

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't be surprised to see this feature use RDC (remote differential compression), which is kind of like rsync's method of moving bits around. The API for that exists in Windows 2003, but is not wildly obvious. I assume it's included in subsequent releases also.

Re:Clever, actually

[badkarmadayaccount]

dyndns.com

Faster, easier way to infect friends and familysPC

[Hadlock]

This just reeks of a way to "securely" send viruses through a new security hole! No way in hell I would enable this.

Hard to say exactly what it is at the moment

[pwnies]

The article and the summary on microsoft are both pretty lacking. It's hard to tell if this is a dropbox-esque implementation, or if it's something more along the lines of a distributed file system.

This provider enables linking a Windows Live ID to a Windows 7 user account.

Does this mean we'll have an AFS like login system where we'll be able to mount our home files from anywhere? Give us some more details windows.

Wait until the malware guys exploit this...

[nycguy]

They will make hijacking someone's contact list for spam look like a walk in the park.

Other than that, it seems like it's just for setting up circle jerks to porn.

Storage

[Z34107]

That's actually pretty cool. Making a homegroup painless and takes a few mouse clicks, and if you have a copy of the beta you (most likely) already have a .NET passport.

So, Homegroup + .NET passport = free file sharing to anyone on your homegroup? Intriguing, but the article implies that there must be a way to invite a computer NOT on your LAN into a homegroup. I'm guessing that's what that new file sharing program is about.

Re:Storage

[i_b_don]

Thank you! Someone else who actually had the same thought I did. I like this idea. It sounds great. I'd love to share files with friends and videos of the kids with the parents in an easy seamless way.

The problem is, of course Windows 7. I have nothing against MS other than a dislike for some of their previous heavy handed tactics and i don't have a dislike for windows 7, but I want to use this today, not 5 years from now when people actually have windows 7.

What we need now is a good open source alternative...... (hint hint)

Live?

[VGPowerlord]

Hey, if it can associate information with Windows Live accounts, can it also associate information with Xbox Live accounts? As far as I know, they all use the same MS Passport username and password.

Re:Live?

[shutdown -p now]

"Microsoft Passport" is (or rather, the old name for) "Windows Live ID".

How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[bogaboga]

Anyone know how the new KDE 4.2 handles file sharing with other KDE 4.2 desktop environments? The file sharing in Windows 95 was pretty straight forward. Windows 98, not so much. Windows XP was not so easy. It's my hope that Windows 7 will be straight forward.

I think file sharing had a bug within Windows XP SP2 because until on edited the registry, things just did not work.

Now before I get labled as a troll, the registry setting I am talking about is this:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa {change restrictanonymous to 0 }

Then it worked.

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[Creepy Crawler]

So, thats the problem with sharing with anony on a XP install. I was wondering if I broke something.

Loads up VirtualBox OSE....

Yeah. That fixes the problem. Thanks.

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe it is remote:/ in Dolphin (the file manager), but I only have one box running KDE, so I'm not sure.

That said, sftp and scp are remarkably easy for securely moving files. scp @: . works from more or less any linux or Mac computer. As in anywhere.

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[drsmithy]

Now before I get labled as a troll, the registry setting I am talking about is this:

On the non-home versions of XP, you need to manually enable the Guest account for "anonymouse" sharing. You can do this in Users and Groups, or you can do it the hard way and edit the Registry.

In the Home versions, AFAICR, there's a sharing wizard that achieves the same end (of course, this being Slashdot, where everyone knows better, that's probably not widely known).

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[drsmithy]

So, thats the problem with sharing with anony on a XP install. I was wondering if I broke something.

The proper way to do this is to enable the Guest account, which is disabled by default. You can do that in User Management.

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[Erikderzweite]

KDE 4.2 can handle filesharing through samba or you can have it through zeroconf + FISH or zeroconf + SFTP or even zeroconf + NFS although I couldn't get the last combination to work properly, it seem that nfs:// browsing is a bit buggy there.

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[nschubach]

Why would you want to enable the guest account and allow anyone the ability to log into your PC instead of just allowing anonymous LAN access?

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[Creepy Crawler]

I could see what he means...

Enable guest. Set password to "dd if=/dev/urandom count=1".

That would work... Ugly, but works.

Re:How does the new KDE 4.2 do this?

[QCompson]

KDE4 has an amazing new paradigm for file sharing with other desktop environments. There are several fantastic spectacular new methods of sharing all of your photos, music, and data with friends and colleagues. In KDE4, as with everything else, file sharing is built around a desktop widget. The file sharing widget (or plasmoid) is quite shiny and can be rotated and resized. It can even be dragged onto the taskbar.

This desktop file-sharing widget is truly the dawn of a new file-sharing age. A entirely new way to think about desktop file-sharing widgets. A revolution, if you will.

Currently, file sharing is not yet implemented in the file-sharing plasmoid, but by 4.5 this should be working. It also cannot yet be dragged to the taskbar, or resized, or actually placed on the desktop, but all of these features are in the works. This is the start of something great, after all.

So be part of the new paradigm in file sharing, and use KDE4.2 today!

That's really cool

[Creepy Crawler]

Lemee see. Ill go and create a FUSE driver that utilizes this service. Now, Ill point this service at GPG files.

Gee golly Whillikers! You cant read anything I have. Nice though. Encrypted storage dump you can share. Just trade keys out of band, say thorough Gmail.

Re:That's really cool

[mlts]

Perhaps combine the FUSE driver for this with an EncFS layer, or even a TrueCrypt volume that uses a keyfile (obviously not stored on any remote media)? This should help.

Product naming, again

[Just Some Guy]

Dubbed "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5,"

Apple would've called it "iShare" or something else friendly and inviting. Who does MS hire to come up with those horrid, unwieldy names?

Re:Product naming, again

[Anonymous Coward]

Dubbed "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5,"

Apple would've called it "iShare" or something else friendly and inviting. Who does MS hire to come up with those horrid, unwieldy names?

Considering it can go by the 'Windows LISA', Apple may have something to talk about.

Though their Lisa was a failure...

Re:Product naming, again

[truthsearch]

Apple calls it MobileMe.

Re:Product naming, again

[MMC Monster]

Someone may want to register windowslisa.com. Just saying...

Re:Product naming, again

[stefanburt]

Why not just call it Windows Live Share and forget the rest of the nonsense? I would love to see the snappy advertising poster to this campaign, "New Windows 7 with Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5", with a picture of a neural region non specific person looking completely confused and longing for the boring old days of one build of an os with-other tons of confusing versioning numbers.

Re:Product naming, again

[Kickasso]

There's a linux thingy called 'lisa' that sorta can do file sharing. Not that it matters.

Re:Product naming, again

[arndawg]

Considering it can go by the 'Windows LISA',

What are you doiing Liiisa? - i've never heard you sing! GOD DAMNIT I need to get that song out of my head.

Re:Product naming, again

[jgrahn]

Dubbed "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5,"

Apple would've called it "iShare" or something else friendly and inviting. Who does MS hire to come up with those horrid, unwieldy names?

Maybe the same guy who came up with "HP OpenView Configuration Management Application Self-Service Manager". It's so unwieldy, even making an acronym of it doesn't help: HPOVCMASSM.

(What it is? Kind of apt-get for Windows, done badly.)

Re:Product naming, again

[I cant believe its n]

Dubbed "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5,"

Apple would've called it "iShare" or something else friendly and inviting. Who does MS hire to come up with those horrid, unwieldy names?

That would be Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg.

Re:Product naming, again

[ceoyoyo]

Apple called it "iDisk." That name was taken, so MS had to pick the next best one.

Re:Product naming, again

[furby076]

Apple would've called it "iShare" or something else friendly and inviting. Who does MS hire to come up with those horrid, unwieldy names?

Two different philosophies: 1) Less descriptive, but sounds cool - may leave the person saying "I have no clue what this does"
2) MOre descriptive, sounds something NASA would use but gives more description

All depends how you want to go about it. Though this is pre-release, by release date they may very well change the name to say "Windows Live ID Sign-In Assistant" and drop the versioning

Re:Product naming, again

[Anonymous Coward]

It's for my new window slicing company. There's no window we can't slice!

Re:Product naming, again

[nine-times]

Well it does seem like there's a third option: pick something that is relative simple but that gives the user some idea of what the service does.

Re:Product naming, again

[Daimanta]

The guys at the office call him as Wilhelm if you are interested.

Re:Product naming, again

[nurb432]

Complexity is somewhat embedded in their culture.

Just look at their software, most of it is geared to the techie user, not the 'average joe'. They have a knack to make the easy complex.

I cant tell you if its intentional or not, but it works out that way most of the time.

Re:Product naming, again

[edraven]

Yeah, as opposed to something like Linux, which is... oh wait... crap.
No offense to Linux users, I'm one myself, but it's just not everyday that you see Microsoft described as "geared to the techie user". Everything in Windows is obfuscated and hidden from the technical user by the elaborate machinations designed to allow the 'average joe' to accomplish simply only those things that Microsoft assumes the 'average joe' wants to do.

Re:Product naming, again

[Anonymous Coward]

Those names come from the people that claim OSS can't go mainstream because of the "weird" names like GIMP and Ubuntu and even Linux.

I mean come on, a friggin penguin? A real operating system would have a shark, with lasers. Next thing you know there will be an "Obama" in the Whitehouse. Dream on, weirdos.

Re:Product naming, again

[DarthVain]

Yes but notice the word "Assistant"...

Remember the Office "Assistant" Clippy!

Made sense right? Because a paper clip helps (or assists) you to keep your documents together.

Now using this same premise what does this new technology do? Why it helps you share files.

Introducing "Sharey"!

Now, who shares? Communists! What is the symbol of Russia? A Bear! Now I am pretty sure a "Share Bear" already exists, so they might have to buy some IP to pull this off...

OK time for my meds...

Re:Product naming, again

[jollyreaper]

Dubbed "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5,"

Apple would've called it "iShare" or something else friendly and inviting. Who does MS hire to come up with those horrid, unwieldy names?

Don't tempt them, I just know they're going to rename it iSoar.

Re:Product naming, again

[Phroggy]

Microsoft has decided that labeling everything "Windows Live" is more important than having anybody understand what the hell you're talking about.

Re:Product naming, again

[MMInterface]

I wouldn't even call this a name, it's more like a descriptive sentence. This naming scheme has irritated me for quite some time. I kind like the some of the codenames they use but somewhere along the line, I suspect marketing, they have a system of using names that they think are plain, intuitive and include the existing name of whichever parent product they are associated with. This usually means the name will end up being too long and far from iconic. I have never been a fan of the iPoop style names but even those are better. Then you look at some of the Mozilla products (forget about seamonkey or whatever it's called) and it's pretty clear that naming products with the opposite approach can often be more effective.

Re:Product naming, again

[wolfemi1]

No, it's his boss, Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nurnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shonedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm

Re:Product naming, again

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, what? I agree, something like iShare is more friendly, but you really think "Windows Live ID Sign-In Assistant" is more descriptive?

Let's work this through.There's a Windows thing - OK, that's my O/S. And there's a live ID, whatever that is. And you have to Sign-In to use it, so it sounds like some kind of login. And the thing is an Assistant to the whole shebang, so it sounds pretty complicated, right? Something that assists me signing in with a live id on Windows! Got it!

So, err... what do I do with this? Oh, right! I share stuff! Shame that wasn't in the description. Damn you GedankenApple for your cryptic friendly names!

Re:Product naming, again

[TropicalCoder]

I heard they have adopted a new name for the Microsoft cloud computing service because "Azure" just wasn't catching on - it didn't describe the service. The new name has gone from one extreme to the other though - very descriptive, but kind'a dull: "Secure Universal Computer Kernel". Since it is totally an internet related service, as an added bonus they get the right put an "i" in front of it - Apple style - just to show how cool they are...

Re:Product naming, again

[Anonymous Coward]

Just shorten it to wLISA and you've got a clear tribute to Apple.
It follows the Songsmith commercial very nicely.

Re:Product naming, again

[Narnie]

That's Sir Dr. Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg PhD LL.D, thank you very much.

And we get 5 cents per character if our product name is chosen.

Re:Product naming, again

[sagematt]

That would be Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg.

You mean Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Wilhelm Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg. Please reference to printed media instead of Wikipedia next time.

Re:Product naming, again

[olddotter]

Yep it will do that, but not in the same manner: Sharing Large Files with the MobileMe iDisk

Re:Product naming, again

[gaspyy]

Because the summary is incorrect. The software does not do any file sharing on its own, it just facilitates other software to do so:

From the article:

Through the online provider, the Sign-in Assistant helps a Windows 7 application running on one computer identify and communicate with other computers that are associated with the same Windows Live ID. Just by linking your Windows Live ID to the user account on each Windows 7 computer you own, you enable those computers to identify each other and work together more easily than has been possible in the past. Applications can take advantage of this capability [emphasis mine] to support scenarios [...]

Re:Product naming, again

[Refrag]

Thanks for the link.

You can also drop files in the Public folder of your iDisk that people can easily mount from within the Finder (select iDisk from the Finder's Go menu) or any WebDAV client. And your public folder can be password protected. Your friends and family can easily store that password in their Keychain so they don't have to remember it.

Re:Product naming, again

[Anonymous Coward]

How about:
Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern -schplenden -schlitter -crasscrenbon -fried -digger -dangle -dungle -burstein -von -knacker -thrasher -apple -banger -horowitz -ticolensic -grander -knotty -spelltinkle -grandlich -grumblemeyer -spelterwasser -kürstlich -himbleeisen -bahnwagen -gutenabend -bitte -eine -nürnburger -bratwustle -gerspurten -mit -zweimache -luber -hundsfut -gumberaber -shÃnendanker -kalbsfleisch -mittler -raucher von Hautkopft of Ulm.

Re:Product naming, again

[badkarmadayaccount]

iReally think iT's annoying, and iT's not like anybody else iS doing something like iT, right?

.net passport

[symbolset]

Is that like a hotmail login?

They probably have some super secret Microsoft IP in this one. Proabably loaded with patents, it's so creative.

Warning - concealed terms of service

[Animats]

The Microsoft announcement says "Use of the software is governed by the Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistance 6.5 Beta License Agreement accessible as a file in this download." So you can't read the terms of service without downloading (and installling?) the software.

For something that opens up remote access to local machines, with that access under the control of Microsoft, this matters. What responsibility does Microsoft take for the security of your stored data? Is the system HIPPA compliant? Would it meet the standards for confidentiality of legal work product? Those of the Industrial Security Manual for unclassified but sensitive information? Does Microsoft claim any ownership rights in your data (like Facebook just tried?) Can your stored data be used to target advertising (like Google does?) What cryptosystem is being used? Who has access to the keys?

Until all those questions have been answered and the answers reviewed by qualified third parties, using this system in a business environment might be construed as gross negligence.

Re:Warning - concealed terms of service

[slackoon]

true but did anyone actually intend to use this in a business environment? If they did I say they deserve what they get!

Re:Warning - concealed terms of service

[Unoriginal Nick]

The Microsoft announcement says "Use of the software is governed by the Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistance 6.5 Beta License Agreement accessible as a file in this download." So you can't read the terms of service without downloading (and installling?) the software.

If you scroll down further, you'll see "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5 beta License Terms.rtf" which can be downloaded and viewed separately without having to install the program.

Re:Warning - concealed terms of service

[furby076]

So you can't read the terms of service without downloading (and installling?) the software.

Uninstall

Is the system HIPPA compliant?

They have no more responsibility to protect your medical records then Google does if you use gmail to send your medical records. HIPPA is for patient, doctor, medical facilities. Now if MS started to advertise and offer services of medical data storage then they would have to follow HIPPA laws.

Re:Warning - concealed terms of service

[flaming error]

Is the system HIPPA compliant? Would it meet the standards for confidentiality of legal work product? Those of the Industrial Security Manual for unclassified but sensitive information?

You forgot to ask if this software is UL listed, meets local building codes, and if it weighs less than a duck.

What cryptosystem is being used? Who has access to the keys?

That is the right question.

Re:Warning - concealed terms of service

[Anonymous Coward]

Can your stored data be used to target advertising (like Google does?)

My guess is the data will be used by a Clippy agent built into the OS (just try to get rid of him). "Looks like you're trying to download porn. Can I help you find a particular actor/actress?"

Even better, your shared folders now have in-your-face advertising. You open up a shared folder and a whole bunch of "Click Me" ads pop up. I'm sure there's a patent somewhere for that...

Re:Warning - concealed terms of service

[edraven]

Uninstall? Seriously? It's been a long time since you used Microsoft software, hasn't it?

Re:Warning - concealed terms of service

[Anonymous Coward]

And it's not HIPPA. It's HIPAA ("Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act")..

Anything like Windows Live Sync?

[langelgjm]

I wonder if this will be anything like Windows Live Sync, which is quite useful.

Live Sync doesn't have any sort of DRM as far as I'm aware, but I believe there are limits on file size and total number of files. In any case, I use it to keep several hundred documents synced transparently between my XP desktop and OS X laptop.

Re:Anything like Windows Live Sync?

[poetmatt]

Do the 8 thousand voices around you screaming DRM/danger/It's a trap seem to have any indication of this being anything other than a ticking timebomb in your pc?

Man, I've heard of selective hearing but damn!

Microsoft is just cutting off its nose to spite it's face. For the infinite #th time.

Re:Anything like Windows Live Sync?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if this will be anything like Windows Live Sync, which is quite useful.

I wonder how long it 'll take before someone reverse-engineers the protocol, tricks you into downloading a specially crafted exe and joins _your_ computer to _his_ network.

Skydrive is nice already

[The Mr. One]

Actually, I think Microsoft's Skydrive is already a good platform for sharing, 25GB space free, share with people who have live passport, and not just photos, but all file types. More importantly, Mac users can use it too. You just need a web browser.

Thanks MSFT

[slackoon]

Thanks MSFT for allowing the average user to host his/her own porn server for all their friends!!!!

Why?

[WiiVault]

Why would I use something that will be the target of hackers, more than likely screened or DRMed, and potentially logged,when free, even desktop alternatives exist? No thanks!

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I use something that will be the target of hackers, more than likely screened or DRMed, and potentially logged,when free, even desktop alternatives exist? No thanks!

SQUAWK! SQUAWK! DRM! SQUAWK!

Re:Why?

[WiiVault]

Why would I use something that will be the target of hackers, more than likely screened or DRMed, and potentially logged,when free, even desktop alternatives exist? No thanks!

SQUAWK! SQUAWK! DRM! SQUAWK!

Damn right I'm squawking. Especially when there are many services like this that are DRM free.

Re:Why?

[Kalriath]

And so's this for all we know. How about you shut up until you've seen it? Really now!

Re:Why?

[WiiVault]

I said more than likely contains DRM (As Vista and Win7 do), I know we don't know for sure. The only other point I made was that it will be a big target for hackers...duh it will be a big userbase. Seriously man no need to be a dick.

Re:Why?

[WiiVault]

How in the name of God is this a Troll? MS has DRM in Windows 7 and Vista, is a big target for hackers, and alternative do exist. Seriously mods.

TPB situation

[stimpleton]

Presumably, if someone shares copyrighted files with this system, then a similar argument would apply that the prosecution is using against the current Pirate Bay case.

MS would be the pirate bay in concept.

Re:TPB situation

[furby076]

Unless MS promises to monitor and try and prevent people from sharing copyrighted material. Something pirate bay does not do. There are many applications, sites, etc that allow you to store/share files on remote systems but it all depends on how they are setup to be used. I don't think MS is going to open up the file sharing like torrents, you will need to log in via your .Net passport - so unlike pirate bay where thousands of people will hit a torrent, this will be limited to a few people. I am also willing to bet MS will put in system flags, for example if your files are being accessed by more then 5 people it alerts them.

Re:TPB situation

[FlyingBishop]

That is why, as some earlier poster has noted, MS is likely to have systems in place to identify copyrighted works, and notify the copyright holders of the abuse.

I'm sticking with FTP that I pay for. Honestly, a computer costs at minimum $100/Year, not counting software or an overpriced OS like Windows. I'll take that Windows tax and plop it down on a few hundred gigs of backed-up hosting with a company that is constantly taking my money, and therefore has a clear incentive not to piss me off. As opposed to Microsoft, who took my money 3 years ago, and still thinks it has the right to more, even though it's been degrading the services offered for the past 6 years.

Re:TPB situation

[Skelosh]

Microsoft is just trying to get a monopoly on the file sharing market. It's all in their document labeled "Our Plan." I found it open and laying around when I just happened to be strolling through their HQ the other day.

Re:TPB situation

[Sinbios]

Unless MS promises to monitor and try and prevent people from sharing copyrighted material.

Sure, they could do that. But how would it benefit them? Who's going to pay them to find potentially copyright infringing media, and then block it? How would you even figure out if certain media is copyrighted or not? AFAIK Youtube still relies on requests from the copyright holder to remove copyrighted material.

The RIAA could try to pay them off, but then nobody would use their service. They WANT people to use their service because it gives them ad revenue and market share, which benefit them more than whatever the RIAA can come up with. You could be sharing the entire $900,000 (according to the RIAA) worth of your copyright infringed music collection there; what does Microsoft care? They won't get the $900,000, and even if the RIAA pays them some trivial amount for each copyright violation caught (they won't, since the RIAA is not guaranteed to get that $900,000 either. Might even lose money in court fees), they'll be scaring off tons of users from their service. The equilibrium point is when you lose all your users, and now the RIAA stops paying you anything because your service is worthless.

So, let's summarize how your supposed strategy will work, assuming you figure out how to filter copyrighted material and the RIAA is willing to pay you to do it:

1) Create filesharing service
2) Each user results in a gain of lump sum value X, which is the aggregated value of market share, brand recognition, ad revenue, etc.
3) RIAA pays you amount Y to filter copyrighted content
4) Users find they can't share copyrighted media files, stop using your service.
5) The only users left are the ones who don't share copyrighted media, ever. Your income X approaches zero.
6) The RIAA doesn't care about these users, stops paying you to filter files. Your income Y drops to zero. You could remove the filter now, but you've already put the time, effort, and money into making it.
7) ???
8) You lose.

If you were in charge of marketing and proposed such an idiotic plan to me, I would fire you on the spot.

Re:TPB situation

[Pofy]

>Unless MS promises to monitor and try and prevent
>people from sharing copyrighted material. Something
>pirate bay does not do.

Then Microsoft will have a problem in Europe. The fact that Pirate Bay does NOT monitor and interfer with what users transfer is according to an Eu directive what makes them not responsible. If one starts to monitor and control what users can transfer then one DO get responsible for it. So it would be the other way arround of what you say, at least in Europe.

Ninnle already does this!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wide area virtual networking has been a part of Ninnle Linux for some time, since 2003, to be exact. Ninnle Labs has been working on ports for this, and add-ons for Ninnle Office will be available shortly, for all Linux platforms as well as Windows and Mac. Ninnle Office is available right now for all platforms.

it's a trap!

[Cassini2]

I'm not sure I agree with the person that moderated the parent as Flame Bait. Microsoft is a big enough target that it doesn't want to get sued over copyright violations. That was why Vista and Windows 7 have all that DRM crap. Now Microsoft wants to build a secure utility to transparently share files between people over the internet.

Has anyone ever built a secure file sharing utility over the internet that hasn't been abused in some way? Ever?

Sometimes it is just too easy to guess peoples passwords. People will share the potentially embarrassing items, whether it is an embarrassing picture, or a copyrighted song. Microsoft will log all this information. One enterprising teen could make all of your dirty laundry public knowledge.

Re:it's a trap!

[CodeBuster]

Microsoft is a big enough target that it doesn't want to get sued over copyright violations.

I don't think that is really the main the reason. If Microsoft wants to defend a charge of vicarious (i.e. they assisted others) infringement then they need only point to Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417 (1984) aka "the Betamax case" and make the Res Ipsa Loquitur (the matter speaks for itself) case that the Windows OS has "substantial non-infringing uses".

That was why Vista and Windows 7 have all that DRM crap.

I think that the other posters on this thread are right when they say that Microsoft was trying to capture market share in the home entertainment market by offering what they believed were enticing DRM features to the entertainment industry. There was just one small problem, they forgot about their real customers, the home users, along the way and the strategy has been largely unsuccessful as a result. It probably also doesn't help that Ballmer, the present CEO of Microsoft, has views on copyright and culture that fit closely with those of the big media companies whereas Steve Jobs of Apple is more in tune with what the consumer market wants and the "spirit of the times", even going so far as to publicly call the record company execs "greedy".

Has anyone ever built a secure file sharing utility over the internet that hasn't been abused in some way? Ever?

If I had to guess, I would say that the top level Warez groups probably have the closest thing to a secure file sharing network as anyone. They are constantly under fire from the media companies and various government agencies and that kind of heat tends to burn off the impurities and leave behind a very well configured and secured server (the lesser ones having long since been busted and broken up).

One enterprising teen could make all of your dirty laundry public knowledge.

Actually, it will probably be the Russian mafia and their hacker associates; they specialize in blackmail, but it takes a certain minimum net worth to draw their attention.

Re:it's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

YouÂre kinda right and would be nice for SOHOs and small business to setup a share so the clients can grab forms, public documents and enterprise related stuff. Sure thats what web sites are for, but having a pool of, say, design demos for a client available for other clients could be nice in the context of a design shop or other related model of business. Torrent, ares, rapidshare will be there anyway. I donÂt think TPB trial would end stopping the torrent PROTOCOL per se. -i0

Re:it's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

It probably also doesn't help that Ballmer, the present CEO of Microsoft, has views on copyright and culture that fit closely with those of the big media companies whereas Steve Jobs of Apple is more in tune with what the consumer market wants and the "spirit of the times", even going so far as to publicly call the record company execs "greedy".

You think the largest Disney shareholder" is more in tune with the "spirit of the times"? If that spirit is marketing two-faced BS, then yes. Steve Jobs knows which way the wind is blowing on MP3s and is smart enough to not fight a war already lost. He is at the forefront of defending DRM in video (movies, Hannah Montana TV) and software.

Re:it's a trap!

[CodeBuster]

Steve Jobs became the largest shareholder of Disney almost by accident when Disney bought Pixar, so in a manner of speaking he actually fell into being the largest Disney shareholder; he wasn't actively seeking to become the largest individual Disney shareholder. I am not an Apple apologist by any stretch of the definition, but neither do I believe that Steve Job's secret ambition was to control Disney. However, I do agree that his position on video DRM is inconsistent with his previous positions on music DRM and DRM in general. Steve Jobs makes a distinction between video and music, but it is my own opinion, and probably one shared by most Slashdotters, that DRM is always the wrong way to treat your paying customers and doesn't stop warez or large scale professional piracy anyway. At best DRM frustrates some casual copying which goes back to the first point of the wrong way to treat paying customers.

Re:it's a trap!

[starflt]

I don't think that is really the main the reason. If Microsoft wants to defend a charge of vicarious (i.e. they assisted others) infringement then they need only point to Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417 (1984) [wikipedia.org] aka "the Betamax case" and make the Res Ipsa Loquitur [wikipedia.org] (the matter speaks for itself) case that the Windows OS has "substantial non-infringing uses".

Great. Now I need a new fuse for my sarcasm-o-meter.

Re:it's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve Jobs became the largest shareholder of Disney almost by accident when Disney bought Pixar, so in a manner of speaking he actually fell into being the largest Disney shareholder; he wasn't actively seeking to become the largest individual Disney shareholder.

It occurred with Steve Jobs knowledge and cooperation. Or maybe I used my pixar magic to photoshop Steve Jobs next to the CEO of Disney. It would have been easy given the black background between them. Had Steve not become such a large shareholder willingly, he would have - could have - easily divested himself of Disney long, long ago. This is not like a child that inherited a fortune. That stake materialized and is maintained by deliberation.

HA HA

[Wolfmandan72]

"ITS A TRAP"!-Admiral Ackbar

No. Not now. Not ever. I'm Coming For All of You!

[Anonymous Coward]

Both Windows and Mac OS X are turning into client-side layers for online services (Live and MobileMe).

I think we all know why (Google), but it sucks and when the mainstream catches on, they are going to run screaming to Linux (at least until it is outlawed like PC HDTV, lol)

"We are the Borg, please enter your Windows Live ID and logon for private-life penetration testing, peer pressure and psychological purification." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEMZc_XuPh8

Awww....

[guyminuslife]

For a moment I thought they meant they'd put a BitTorrent client in the OS like Linux distros do.

Thinking about it, that would actually be scary.

Traceroute myshare.live.com

[Seth Kriticos]

C:> tracert myshare.live.com
traceroute to myshare.live.com (12.34.56.78), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
your.provider.com (234.213.535.213) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms
check.riaa.com (234.24.24.546) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms
check.mpaa.com (34.57.25.123) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms
check.us.gov (34.63.32.467) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms
spam.group.net (43.64.32.57) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms
myshare.live.com (234.213.535.213) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms

*connection successfully established*

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[Anonymous Coward]

> check.riaa.com (234.24.24.546) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms

Haha! That's not an IPv4 address. But wait... you're on to something here!

Wow, we could get more IP addresses if we allowed the numbers to go up to 1000 or something.

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[clone53421]

Yeah, but we couldn't transmit them over the network. 'Cause, you know, they're transmitted as 32 bits.

And that's why they created IPv6: 128 bits instead of 32. That many addresses should last a while...

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[ssjcory]

C:> tracert myshare.live.com traceroute to myshare.live.com (12.34.56.78), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets your.provider.com (234.213.535.213) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms check.riaa.com (234.24.24.546) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms check.mpaa.com (34.57.25.123) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms check.us.gov (34.63.32.467) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms spam.group.net (43.64.32.57) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms myshare.live.com (234.213.535.213) 43.436 ms 45.114 ms 46.053 ms *connection successfully established*

That must be why my hotmail is so f***ing slow

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Psh, not nearly as long as you would think. I mean, come on. That's only one IP address per ~487,988,489,489,177,787 moles of atoms in the known universe. To be perfectly honest, we should already be converting to a 1024-bit protocol, so that every atom will have at least three addresses it can be assigned, before it's too late!

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Sarcasm- it's what's for dinner.

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[nschubach]

I'm sure there's another reason for that.

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[The Dancing Panda]

woosh?

Re:Traceroute myshare.live.com

[clone53421]

I knew it was a joke. But then, 128-bit IP addresses would be like allowing each number to go up to 4,294,967,296 (2^32). 1000 isn't even a power of 2, for cryin' out loud... geez.

And shortly after...

[ZWarrior]

On his homegroup, Bob wants to share certain documents with his wife but not with his kids. Simply by specifying his wifeâ(TM)s Windows Live ID user name, Bob can give his wife exclusive permission to access documents on his computer.

Shortly thereafter Bob's wife files for divorce because he mistakenly included all his special pron files in the access permissions.

C$ share?

[Gothmolly]

Isn't Windows itself basically a giant filesharing application?

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[snowraver1]

Really?? Is that really all you have to say? To me this seems like a "pull" service, not a push service. This means that you would not have the ability to "push" a virus to a remote system, but would be able to pull a compromised file from a remote location.

Even if you could push files out, you would still need the remote computer to run the file, so it's really no different then a p2p application. Bashing the app (or more likely MS in general) when this "security hole" is neither unique to windows nor this specific application is childish.

DirectConnect

[Darktan]

So....how is this different from DirectConnect?

Re:DirectConnect

[CMF Risk]

So....how is this different from DirectConnect?

It might actually work?

service not windows 7 specific

[freddyrios]

This technology isn't windows 7 specific, notice that you can use it on: https://sync.live.com/

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[FlyingBishop]

Because this is so much less secure than AIM...

Is this Live Mesh under another name?

[alen]

i've been a beta tester for while and it's not bad. from what i've seen they don't filter anything. very nice if you are on vacation.

i had it set up on my laptop and home PC. On vacation i would take pictures of my son and copy the files to the shared folder and automatically sync to my home PC. And it has integrated terminal services where you don't need to add a firewall rule on your home firewall. you can get into your home PC from anywhere on the internet.

Re:Is this Live Mesh under another name?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bot makers wet dream.

Re:No. Not now. Not ever. I'm Coming For All of Yo

[Anonymous Coward]

I think we all know why (Google), but it sucks and when the mainstream catches on, they are going to run screaming to Linux? (at least until it is outlawed like PC HDTV, lol)

lol

They are in a Red Queen's Race

[mangu]

If you notice MS has been following the same pattern as NASDAQ - yes down right now, but that is not because MS is failing it is because there is a tighter crunch in the market.

Considering they have spent tens of billions of dollars just to keep their market price from falling more, then I think one can say Microsoft is in deep trouble, considering the stock market alone.

Re:They are in a Red Queen's Race

[The End Of Days]

OMG they only have 29 billion dollars on hand? You've convinced me. I don't know why they just don't call a press conference to admit it, then burn down all their buildings like a viking funeral.

Security

[K_E_Morr]

I'm sure this thing will be completely bullet proof security wise.

Re:Security

[edraven]

I think we can anticipate that, considering it's being created by the company that has the most well known security reputation of any company, world-wide.

Hacker's Joy

[sls1j]

Yes! Another vector for distributing viruses and worms!!! Whoo hoo!

Breaking news

[Anonymous Coward]

This just in - D@rkGn1ght, a member of the underworld hacking community has released a bot into the wild that pulls social security numbers, credit card history, and the blood types of all people using Windows File Sharing Beta. In related news, Steve Balmer is embarrassed, again.

From the edge of mediocrity and obsolescence..

[phrackwulf]

Microsoft takes a good long look and throws itself into the abyss. "HERE WE ARE!" Infect us with viruses you script kiddies you! Windows 7 Neon Bulls eye, now in Home, Business and Ultimate flavors.

And what about anonymity ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah.... look at this : ...individual users with a Windows 7 account, essentially building a secure link...

Conspiracy theory aside, I would not be comfortable with M$ knowing what files I'm transferring.

Highly-anticipated?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Okay, I realize there are Microsoft fanboys who, like Apple fanboys and Ubuntu fanboys, get all giggly whenever a new version of their favorite OS is about to be released. But it seems like any "anticipation" regarding Windows 7 has more to do with people wanting to get past the PR disaster that has been Vista.

Calling Windows 7 "highly-anticipated" is analogous to saying rabies vaccine is "highly-anticipated" by a person who's just been bitten by a rabid dog.

'Complicated' solution?

[Bearhouse]

FTA:

Microsoft boasts that its system for inviting (and omitting) users is more complicated than its competitors'.

I hope they mean 'sophisticated', but then again, this is M$.

Nah

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll stick with TPB and King Kong.

No thanks

[nurb432]

Why would i want to share information with my friends just to have it tracked/manipulated/restricted/reported by Microsoft and their media buddies?

How To Destroy Microsoft: +1, Uber-Informative

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Steve Jobs:

Make OS X freely available for non-Apple Intel Machines.

Yours In Communism,
Kilgore Trout

Slashdot: Mouthpiece for Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

I can remember a time when Slashdot articles weren't adverts written by Microsoft staffers.

Uh...how about changing the logo to Steve Ballmer?

[Anonymous Coward]

When is the logo going to be changed to Steve Ballmer?

It's so totally stupid to have Gates' face here while he's already moved on to other things like, ten thousand years ago.

New tricks?

[jalefkowit]

Dubbed "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5"...

Who says Microsoft can't do marketing? Take that, haters!

Re:New tricks?

[Anonymous Coward]

DAMN! Just as I was getting used to Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.4.

First it was 5.8 -> 6.0 and now this! Unbelievable M$!

row row row your boast

[Anonymous Coward]

FTA:
'Microsoft boasts that its system for inviting (and omitting) users is more complicated than its competitors'.

Anyone else think this is not something to boast? I'd rather have a very simple system, simple usually means easier to use and more secure...

uh, yeah. this will be... famous... sure...

[Tom]

"Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5,"

Give it to MS marketing to come up with a really grandmother-friendly name. I'm sure my mom and your average Joe will gladly text each other "hey can you windows-live-id-sign-in-assistant-send me that file?"

Whatever you think of Apple, at least they would've called this "iShare" or something.

Live ID?

[Anonymous Coward]

What was my windows live id?
Oh well for get it who needs a Live ID any way or this software.

M$ sucks!

[hesaigo999ca]

Again, another attempt by M$ to control what you can and cant do,
instead of leaving it to you to know what you should and should not do!

Absolutely!

[msimm]

No problem!

Irony

[microbee]

What if we use it to share windows 7? Is it gonna work?

Count me in

[hamburgler007]

If it works just as well as their current file sharing, then count me in. It's a good excuse for a 10 minute coffee break while you wait for it just to connect to another machine.

Terminology

[Anonymous Coward]

What if that copyrighted file is licensed under the GPL?

/me ducks

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[Anonymous Coward]

Since Windows Live is in the middle, my guess is a virus scanning engine would be utilized, but thats not excuse for not having your own A/V software.

Software as a service=Cloud computing

[Anonymous Coward]

Google (the people who gave gmail users gigs of space) could come up with a competing product that would probably work a lot better and wouldn't require any Microsoft shit.

Yes...

[Anonymous Coward]

The article doesn't mention if there's a Linux version!

Windows7 beta leaked just days ago.Coincidence?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just days ago there was a Windows 7 beta leaked as a bittorrent.

I wonder if this announcement from Microsoft is just a coincidence or Microsoft's attempt of embracing/extending/extinguish Bittorrent since it allows people to share the different versions of Windows without having to purchase Windows.

I would venture to say people are used to Bittorrent. This will definitely be a demoralizing uphill battle for Microsoft to win.

Fixed?

[Vexorian]

"Microsoft yesterday released a trial version of new file-sharing software intended for use with its upcoming and highly-anticipated operating system. The new software allows PC users to swap files with the computers of friends, family, and trusted colleagues along safe, secure channels. Dubbed "Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant 6.5," the beta connects the Windows Live IDs of individual users with a Windows 7 account, essentially building an insecure link between data stored on a hard drive and information accessible via Windows Live online.

I mean , that's the only way this paragraph could make sense.

SCP

[loufoque]

What else?

(no, I'm not George Clooney)

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[Hadlock]

Aim isn't tied into the kernel, nor is it installed on all new computers.

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[Hadlock]

Whaaaaaah. I'm a cry baby. Listen to me rant on the internet. Whaaaaaah.

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[nog_lorp]

Why would this be tied in to the kernel?

Nothing at all like Live Sync

[Namarrgon]

Because it doesn't actually do sharing at all. As usual, TFS is half crap and Taco didn't RTFA. A better article is here.

All it does is associate your Live ID with your login - that's why they call it Sign-in Assistant instead of iShare. It enables other [potential] apps to e.g. share files, amongst other things, but there's no functionality like that in this MS release.

What you can do is e.g. set up a Win7 Homegroup (read: private network), share drives/folders in the usual way, and allow only specified Live IDs access (as opposed to allowing local or domain accounts access). The only new part here is auto-sign-in to your Live ID to make this all more seamless.

Are people that stupid?

[Anonymous Coward]

gee, let us all log in to our microsoft account, transfer all of our files to our friends, and then wait for the knock at the door saying that my recent "transfer list" had some files in it that should not have been transferred. but wait, they wouldnt intercept my list and send it to their riaa drm partners would they? maybe this is why the riaa is not suing people!!! they will be provided a list of people by the isp's, due to filtering and due to "new exciting features" in the next windows.

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[arotenbe]

Why would this be tied in to the kernel?

In the immortal words of the Internet Explorer development team: "Why not?"

Dropbox is already better

[MillerHighLife21]

And runs on Linux, OSX, and Windows. I forget the name, but there was a file sharing service like that which MS bought and the Linux version just...vanished.

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[Anonymous Coward]

When was IE tied to the *kernel*?

Your own private data - out there?

[KlausBreuer]

Do you trust a large company with your personal data? Really?
Do you trust your state not to listen in to the data transfer, either cracking any encoded info or simply forcing the company to give them the keys?
Or simply forcing the company to give them all your data?

Look, even the super-duper-top-secret swiss banking secrecy has been broken, and the swiss banks are sending full data to the USA.

Do not trust any outsider with your data. Ever. Keep it on yourself, encode it, transport it either via USB-stick (32 GB is quite a lot of data), portable hard drive, laptop, whatever.
Don't send it over a public cable, don't trust any strangers with it.

Re:Faster, easier way to infect friends and family

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this might be the point where you should sit down and admit you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

Re:How To Destroy Microsoft: +1, Uber-Informative

[Anonymous Coward]

They can't keep OS X bug-free on hardware they have full control over - what makes you think they're equipped to handle the millions upon millions of possible hardware combinations they would have to make work?

Been there, done that

[hackshack]

Sooo... it's like Apple's iDisk, but almost 10 years later, and DRM'ed up the ass.

I am blown away. Technical tour de force, guys.

Can't wait to see your version of Spotlight- oh wait, I installed Windows Desktop Search, and uh, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

You don't get it. They used to have much more

[jotaeleemeese]

They are haemorrhaging cash, in spite of relatively good numbers elsewhere.

Which is why investors are not buying into the company.

Re:You don't get it. They used to have much more

[Kevin Stevens]

They are redistributing it to stockholders, which is exactly what a company should be doing.

If you read mangu's link, it states:

Specifically, by Microsoft's count, the company has paid out nearly $100 billion through dividends and repurchasing its own stock in the past five years.

They are only "hemorrhaging" cash in the sense that they are giving it back to the owners of the company, and reducing dilution of the stock.

MS is facing unprecedented challenges from Linux, Apple, and is not achieving its goals of dominating the other businesses it has pursued such as mobile devices, gaming, media, etc, but it is competing there and holding its own. But they are still quite profitable. Lets not spread FUD here.

Re:You don't get it. They used to have much more

[The End Of Days]

Notice that mangu's self-serving (Slashdot prejudice serving?) summarization of the link currently sits at +5, while you have naught but your karma bonus modifier. Masturbation at it's finest. The Slashdot community hears what it wants to hear, much like a 4 year old.

Re:You don't get it. They used to have much more

[mangu]

They are redistributing it to stockholders, which is exactly what a company should be doing.

But that's exactly why it's a Red Queen's Race. In spite of spending all that cash on dividends, they still are at more or less the same place where they started, compared to the other companies in the stock market.

What happens when their cash hoard ends, which is approximately right now (the link I posted before is two years old, they don't have those 29 billion anymore)? Investors won't keep stock on a company that isn't likely to distribute dividends in the future. When the cash pile ends, the dividends will stop, unless they develop some lucrative new product. Vista? Naah. Windows 7? Not likely.

I'm no fanboy ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm no MS fanboy. Most of my systems are Linux and my daily desktop is Linux, but come on. MS has done some things that help copyright holders, that's true, but when they say "no personally identifiable information is retained", I actually believe them. They **know** the scrutiny their systems will be under. They aren't that stupid ... er .... anymore.

The companies that I really worry about are google and the antivirus guys. We use them everyday and they tell us clearly they will use the data however they like.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't remain vigilant with MS and their products, MS-Exchange has a "law enforcement" mode that retains **everything**. Then it can be archived using any number of external tools. Google archives everything too.

MS isn't the bad guy they once were.

Missed Opportunity

[knuth]

They should have called it Squirt Live.

If two do the same...

[krischik]

Apple is the grand daddy of "do what we say, and how we say to do it" mentality.

In Germany we say "Wenn zwei das gleiche tuen ist es noch lange nicht das gleiche" - translated: "If two do the same it is still not the same". I use Vista at Work and Mac OS X at home and I have never felt so patronized by an operating system as with Vista.

And the user access control thing is probably the best example: Bot OSs use elevation but on Vista it drives me insane. Probably because I see the elevation Dialog on OS X once of twice a week and on Vista 5 to 10 times a day. And only that few times because I permanently have a file-manager / command-line combo started with admin rights (TakeCommand - http://www.jpsoft.com/ - would not know what to do without).

Reminds me of the good old linux days when I had a root command line open all time.

But back to the point: For me as a customer the question is not how much I am patronized - the question is how much do I feel patronized.